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Posted: 8/31/2021 2:16:46 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I feel like there is a bit difference in agency priorities as well as political backing. Drugs are bad, we know that. The DEA is fighting big time smugglers on our borders, heroin producers domestically, and meth labs in suburban neighborhoods. The population is pretty much behind them and they realized that pot isn't easy to control, is in a fairly shaky area due to its origin, and the population wanted it legalized overall. The AFT is barely able to justify it's existance. The constitution essentially negates it's existance and supports the citizen's argument against their policies. Nearly half of the country would agree to dissolve their power to influence firearm related policy. They have to grasp at straws, politicizing gun related deaths and scaring the public into agreeing to bow down to them. Fighting the normal citizen to take more of his rights is how they grow their budget and justify staff. |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 2:20:05 PM EDT
[#2]
Rare Breed needs to submit a Form 1 for a zip tie just to fuck with the ATF and make them declare it a machine gun.
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Posted: 8/31/2021 2:23:55 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Rare Breed needs to submit a Form 1 for a zip tie just to fuck with the ATF and make them declare it a machine gun. LOL. this! |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 2:28:27 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think there is any, other than as described in the C&D letter to RB. RB had some former tech branch employees look it over before going to market. |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 2:42:57 PM EDT
[#5]
I'm anal too...in this case, I would say its because the goal of the ATF is to inconvenience RBT as hardcore as they can.
Wouldn't surprise me if they had tried putting it on the docket in Alaska but couldn't get a slot. ATF is an unconstitutional agency behaving in direct contravention of the supreme law of the land, as handed down from the founders in no uncertain language. Expect them to fight dirty because if they lose, ever, their power is restricted. Restricted ATF power means less burnt children, fewer shot dogs, and all the perks of being in the ATF just dry right the fuck up. Quote HistoryQuoted: IANAL; why is the grand jury coming from Texas? |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 2:55:19 PM EDT
[#6]
Still in stock. make your legal contribution now :D
https://www.rarebreedtriggers.com/product/frt-15/ |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 2:58:47 PM EDT
[#7]
Test fired mine yesterday. 60 glorious uninterrupted rounds into my berm.
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Posted: 8/31/2021 3:50:50 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Still in stock. make your legal contribution now :D https://www.rarebreedtriggers.com/product/frt-15/ i would FO but its borowed time brfore they are raided |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 4:01:01 PM EDT
[#9]
Still no update what happened in court last Friday? ....or was the additional complaint against the FATF what happened??
Thanks |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 4:02:15 PM EDT
[#10]
serious question?
Is ATF or the Department of Just-Us using an informant to garner Rare Breed trial strategy? Cross posting this to show that factually they do:  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 4:49:54 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Grand Jury in TX? i have been summoned for 3 months in Dallas Countyfor a Grand Jury ill put in a good word  Yep, grand jury in West Texas. From RBT's complaint filing 08/27/21, page 25 (https://theinfidel.co/blogs/rare-breed-news/rare-breed-triggers-amended-complaint). Plaintiffs = RBT, Defendants = ATF:  So, again, my question - who wins the race? Injunction granted in FL federal district court, or Subpoena granted in West Texas Grand Jury? That's going to determine whether FRT owners are going to have to respond to ATF "surrender" letters or not. |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 4:58:48 PM EDT
[#12]
IF RBT folds, they should publish the manufacturing drawing/prints online.
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Posted: 8/31/2021 4:58:52 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: serious question? Is ATF or the Department of Just-Us using an informant to garner Rare Breed trial strategy? Cross posting this to show that factually they do: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/169738/p_41_43_001_jpg-2073364.JPG Well, I can certainly understand why RB is trying to keep a lid on things. |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 5:02:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IF RBT folds, they should publish the manufacturing drawing/prints online. Go while hog and publish CAD and STL files. 
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Posted: 8/31/2021 5:06:07 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Go while hog and publish CAD and STL files. They're already online as STL files. Even if they weren't, the FRT is simple enough that it could be redrawn in CAD quite easily. |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 5:08:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They're already online as STL files. Even if they weren't, the FRT is simple enough that it could be redrawn in CAD quite easily. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Go while hog and publish CAD and STL files. They're already online as STL files. Even if they weren't, the FRT is simple enough that it could be redrawn in CAD quite easily. Delicious |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 5:10:27 PM EDT
[#17]
It's easier to order up a M16 LPK and drill a hole. Half the cost of a rare breed as well.
If rare breed loses I don't see much use for a forced reset trigger. |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 5:29:53 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's easier to order up a M16 LPK and drill a hole. Half the cost of a rare breed as well. If rare breed loses I don't see much use for a forced reset trigger. …….Until possession/sale of those are banned as well. |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 5:40:25 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: .Until possession/sale of those are banned as well. If I'm 3D printing, I'll scratch design a selectable lightning link. The FRT is great as a legal workaround. Once you quit caring about laws there are better options. |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 5:43:20 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's easier to order up a M16 LPK and drill a hole. Half the cost of a rare breed as well. If rare breed loses I don't see much use for a forced reset trigger. True, but more knowledge in the public domain isn’t a bad thing. |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 6:25:19 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I'm facing the same felony, I'm going to cut my home made trigger group into a proper full auto instead of a forced reset design. If I'm 3D printing, I'll scratch design a selectable lightning link. The FRT is great as a legal workaround. Once you quit caring about laws there are better options. Theoretically, you could just 3D print a trigger very much like a RBT, but change something (like the poor angle the spring cup) and wouldn't it be a new device? Therefore you wouldn't be producing a machine gun until the AFT designated it a MG? IMO, this court case could had pretty severe consequences one way or another. The more money RB has to fight, the more the AFT will put into the case. The AFT could decide that this is the time to attack semi-autos, trigger modifications, etc. On the other hand, if the AFT loses this case (I'm sure they will appeal), the firearms industry could probably attack the bumpstock decision and widen the research into forced reset triggers. I can't see a temporary opening of the registry to include the RBT-15 so I think that the case will have some industry-wide changes either way. |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 6:47:16 PM EDT
[#22]
Could one assume that since Rare Breed folks knew this was coming last spring, that they might have destroyed customer records ahead of this letter? There was no legal requirements to keep names/addresses and since they could anticipate trouble why not be proactive and wipe out any and all re cords before trouble starts?
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Posted: 8/31/2021 6:52:23 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: serious question? Is ATF or the Department of Just-Us using an informant to garner Rare Breed trial strategy? Cross posting this to show that factually they do: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/169738/p_41_43_001_jpg-2073364.JPG |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 7:03:36 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Spoiler alert: The Richard Vasquez in those emails is one of the experts that opined the FRT isn't an MG. I assumed he was emailing the lawyer to tell him that there was an informant helping his old agency. |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 7:07:03 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So it comes down to either the former or current employees are the experts and not both if they go to court. In that case every previous case that has testimony by the former experts should be in play for a judicial review or a retrial. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't think there is any, other than as described in the C&D letter to RB. RB had some former tech branch employees look it over before going to market. So it comes down to either the former or current employees are the experts and not both if they go to court. In that case every previous case that has testimony by the former experts should be in play for a judicial review or a retrial. Ain’t it cool? It also seems the recent response used some inside baseball on the procedures used to prevent RBT from getting info into the record. |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 7:11:04 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: i would FO but its borowed time brfore they are raided And your money would still be well spent. |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 7:15:58 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Could one assume that since Rare Breed folks knew this was coming last spring, that they might have destroyed customer records ahead of this letter? There was no legal requirements to keep names/addresses and since they could anticipate trouble why not be proactive and wipe out any and all re cords before trouble starts? Probably could pull records/emails from their ISP or have a three letter agency pull the information for them and use parallel construction to cover it. |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 7:28:50 PM EDT
[#28]
Question:
Hypothetically; I purchase and receive a RB trigger. I box it up and send it to a friend. In another country. The trigger is arbitrarily declared illegal and RBs records seized. One day i recieve a knock on the door. "Turn over your trigger." "Cant. Shipped it to Dorkistan." "Wut." "Here's the receipt of shipment." "Theres no tracking number." "Have fun with that." Is this a viable scenario in which to enrich the ATFs confiscation experience? Of course, said friend in said country might frown upon recieving said item depending on said laws... Actually scratch that. If i were a less than ethical agency i would point to the fact that the ATF already ordered RB to cease production. This senario oy works if purchased before hand. |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 7:32:35 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Question: Hypothetically; I purchase and receive a RB trigger. I box it up and send it to a friend. In another country. The trigger is arbitrarily declared illegal and RBs records seized. One day i recieve a knock on the door. "Turn over your trigger." "Cant. Shipped it to Dorkistan." "Wut." "Here's the receipt of shipment." "Theres no tracking number." "Have fun with that." Is this a viable scenario in which to enrich the ATFs confiscation experience? Of course, said friend in said country might frown upon recieving said item depending on said laws... |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 7:36:06 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You would probably be better off stating you sold it to some guy at a gun show. Yeah, probably overthinking it. |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 7:48:36 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, probably overthinking it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You would probably be better off stating you sold it to some guy at a gun show. Yeah, probably overthinking it. Might want to have it and anything else you might not 'sposed to have at another location if they decide to come back with a search warrant at 3am. I hear they like to do that. 
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Posted: 8/31/2021 7:59:04 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Could one assume that since Rare Breed folks knew this was coming last spring, that they might have destroyed customer records ahead of this letter? There was no legal requirements to keep names/addresses and since they could anticipate trouble why not be proactive and wipe out any and all re cords before trouble starts? If they did that, then why are they arguing that they could be forced to turn over customer lists in their court filing? |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 8:20:14 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Question: Hypothetically; I purchase and receive a RB trigger. I box it up and send it to a friend. In another country. The trigger is arbitrarily declared illegal and RBs records seized. One day i recieve a knock on the door. "Turn over your trigger." "Cant. Shipped it to Dorkistan." "Wut." "Here's the receipt of shipment." "Theres no tracking number." "Have fun with that." Is this a viable scenario in which to enrich the ATFs confiscation experience? Of course, said friend in said country might frown upon recieving said item depending on said laws... Actually scratch that. If i were a less than ethical agency i would point to the fact that the ATF already ordered RB to cease production. This senario oy works if purchased before hand. They'd probably buttfuck you with ITAR |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 8:25:09 PM EDT
[#34]
Exporting anything to do with firearms is never a good idea.
Had a friend that had 10 plus feds show up at his door, from as best I can recall, shipping a barrel to the Philippines. |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 8:27:33 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Still in stock. make your legal contribution now :D https://www.rarebreedtriggers.com/product/frt-15/ Got the email today with tracking # for the 2 I ordered Sunday. I'll probably end up grabbing more. Looking forward to them. |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 8:31:22 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Rare Breed needs to submit a Form 1 for a zip tie just to fuck with the ATF and make them declare it a machine gun.  No kidding!
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Posted: 8/31/2021 8:49:50 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They'd probably buttfuck you with ITAR Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Question: Hypothetically; I purchase and receive a RB trigger. I box it up and send it to a friend. In another country. The trigger is arbitrarily declared illegal and RBs records seized. One day i recieve a knock on the door. "Turn over your trigger." "Cant. Shipped it to Dorkistan." "Wut." "Here's the receipt of shipment." "Theres no tracking number." "Have fun with that." Is this a viable scenario in which to enrich the ATFs confiscation experience? Of course, said friend in said country might frown upon recieving said item depending on said laws... Actually scratch that. If i were a less than ethical agency i would point to the fact that the ATF already ordered RB to cease production. This senario oy works if purchased before hand. They'd probably buttfuck you with ITAR "On second thought, I think I sold that one to my friend Nancy in Sacramento, CA. You should check with her..."
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Posted: 8/31/2021 8:52:59 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IF RBT folds, they should publish the manufacturing drawing/prints online. Why? It becomes the most useless trigger at that point. Might as well buy an off the shelf M16 FCG at that point. Or better yet, for the price a SSF. |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 8:53:32 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Simple. By using a nice thin flexible one they could easily set it up so that the zip tie can be "fixed in position"  and "continuously fire with one function" - that'll be the argument anyway.Never mind that the flexible nature of such a ziptie would absolutely act as a spring and store energy from each reset to pull the trigger again. Never mind that at all.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Latest updates I found include the ATF using a zip tie during testing, acting as a spring, to try to say it's a MG. RB says by adding zip tie, which they manipulated during firing, makes test invalid as they added a part etc. ATF opened a Grandy jury investigation in West Texas after RB told them to pound sand. RB says its just attempt to get customer list.  Sounds an awful lot like adding a shoestring to a semiauto rifle's trigger and charging handle-in which case ATF classified the string as the MG, not the FCG. But who needs to be consistent when you can just railroad everybody anyway? Just like a DIAS is the machine gun, not the FCG. A Lighning Link is the machine gun, not the FCG. A Quick Connector is the machine gun, not the FCG. I know how the FRT works. I'm having a hard time figuring out how a zip tie was applied that is going to alter the function of the thing. Simple. By using a nice thin flexible one they could easily set it up so that the zip tie can be "fixed in position" and "continuously fire with one function" - that'll be the argument anyway.Never mind that the flexible nature of such a ziptie would absolutely act as a spring and store energy from each reset to pull the trigger again. Never mind that at all. I have often wondered, with bump fire does the springy fat of your shoulder or hand become a MG? If you used a silicone rubber “marital aid” as a bumpfire spring, would the “marital aid” become an MG? |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 8:57:21 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have often wondered, with bump fire does the springy fat of your shoulder or hand become a MG? If you used a silicone rubber “marital aid” as a bumpfire spring, would the “marital aid” become an MG? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Latest updates I found include the ATF using a zip tie during testing, acting as a spring, to try to say it's a MG. RB says by adding zip tie, which they manipulated during firing, makes test invalid as they added a part etc. ATF opened a Grandy jury investigation in West Texas after RB told them to pound sand. RB says its just attempt to get customer list. Sounds an awful lot like adding a shoestring to a semiauto rifle's trigger and charging handle-in which case ATF classified the string as the MG, not the FCG. But who needs to be consistent when you can just railroad everybody anyway? Just like a DIAS is the machine gun, not the FCG. A Lighning Link is the machine gun, not the FCG. A Quick Connector is the machine gun, not the FCG. I know how the FRT works. I'm having a hard time figuring out how a zip tie was applied that is going to alter the function of the thing. Simple. By using a nice thin flexible one they could easily set it up so that the zip tie can be "fixed in position" and "continuously fire with one function" - that'll be the argument anyway.Never mind that the flexible nature of such a ziptie would absolutely act as a spring and store energy from each reset to pull the trigger again. Never mind that at all. I have often wondered, with bump fire does the springy fat of your shoulder or hand become a MG? If you used a silicone rubber “marital aid” as a bumpfire spring, would the “marital aid” become an MG? Only a woman can answer that question.  |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 9:02:49 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You would probably be better off stating you sold it to some guy at a gun show. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Question: Hypothetically; I purchase and receive a RB trigger. I box it up and send it to a friend. In another country. The trigger is arbitrarily declared illegal and RBs records seized. One day i recieve a knock on the door. "Turn over your trigger." "Cant. Shipped it to Dorkistan." "Wut." "Here's the receipt of shipment." "Theres no tracking number." "Have fun with that." Is this a viable scenario in which to enrich the ATFs confiscation experience? Of course, said friend in said country might frown upon recieving said item depending on said laws... Better off not lying to them. |
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Posted: 8/31/2021 9:37:46 PM EDT
[#42]
You have the right to remain silent. Do you have the ability?
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Posted: 8/31/2021 10:03:09 PM EDT
[#43]
Meh, I've bought a bunch. Sold my original on GB when prices were stupid. Sold some others to friends/gunshow.
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Posted: 9/1/2021 8:03:36 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Still no update what happened in court last Friday? ....or was the additional complaint against the FATF what happened?? Thanks I guess that's a no. |
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Posted: 9/2/2021 5:38:09 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You would probably be better off stating you sold it to some guy at a gun show. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Question: Hypothetically; I purchase and receive a RB trigger. I box it up and send it to a friend. In another country. The trigger is arbitrarily declared illegal and RBs records seized. One day i recieve a knock on the door. "Turn over your trigger." "Cant. Shipped it to Dorkistan." "Wut." "Here's the receipt of shipment." "Theres no tracking number." "Have fun with that." Is this a viable scenario in which to enrich the ATFs confiscation experience? Of course, said friend in said country might frown upon recieving said item depending on said laws... You'd be best making no statements whatsoever, retaining an attorney, and not having an FRT at or about your property, office, car, etc in case ATF decides to try and fuck you. If even a large minority of people ante up for a lawyer, this turns into a nightmare for ATF. |
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Posted: 9/2/2021 5:39:04 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You'd be best making no statements whatsoever, retaining an attorney, and not having an FRT at or about your property, office, car, etc in case ATF decides to try and fuck you. If even a large minority of people ante up for a lawyer, this turns into a nightmare for ATF.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/3/2021 5:11:35 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 9/3/2021 5:20:03 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Star Fire Automatic Reset Trigger https://www.recoil-technology-systems.com/graves-v2-art.html#/ |
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Posted: 9/3/2021 7:46:55 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Star Fire Automatic Reset Trigger https://www.recoil-technology-systems.com/graves-v2-art.html#/ Cool, but part of me wishes they'd waited to bring them to market if they are close enough to the FRT's design that it makes RBT sue them. Divides their attention and war chest at a time where they are the biggest kid on the playground fighting the bully for us. |
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Posted: 9/3/2021 7:48:11 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cool, but part of me wishes they'd waited to bring them to market if they are close enough to the FRT's design that it makes RBT sue them. Divides their attention and war chest at a time where they are the biggest kid on the playground fighting the bully for us. |
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