User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 8/8/2017 6:18:19 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did anyone even try to make a cool acronym out of that? Quitters. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
That reportedly is the plan, and why it's called an "Interim" Battle Rifle: Field it ASAP in 7.62 NATO, since that caliber is in the system, then convert to a still-to-be-determined 6.5mm round at a later date. Quitters. Stupid-Ass Battle Rifle Experiment you're welcome 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/8/2017 6:20:08 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SABRE Stupid-Ass Battle Rifle Experiment you're welcome Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
That reportedly is the plan, and why it's called an "Interim" Battle Rifle: Field it ASAP in 7.62 NATO, since that caliber is in the system, then convert to a still-to-be-determined 6.5mm round at a later date. Quitters. Stupid-Ass Battle Rifle Experiment you're welcome |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/8/2017 6:21:05 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a promotion right there! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
That reportedly is the plan, and why it's called an "Interim" Battle Rifle: Field it ASAP in 7.62 NATO, since that caliber is in the system, then convert to a still-to-be-determined 6.5mm round at a later date. Quitters. Stupid-Ass Battle Rifle Experiment you're welcome |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/8/2017 6:21:41 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a promotion right there! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
That reportedly is the plan, and why it's called an "Interim" Battle Rifle: Field it ASAP in 7.62 NATO, since that caliber is in the system, then convert to a still-to-be-determined 6.5mm round at a later date. Quitters. Stupid-Ass Battle Rifle Experiment you're welcome |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/8/2017 6:23:05 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Someone give that man a medal! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
That reportedly is the plan, and why it's called an "Interim" Battle Rifle: Field it ASAP in 7.62 NATO, since that caliber is in the system, then convert to a still-to-be-determined 6.5mm round at a later date. Quitters. Stupid-Ass Battle Rifle Experiment you're welcome 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/8/2017 6:25:17 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
20/30 round mags with a combat load of 210 rounds in 7.62. What's not to love!  However, I do agree with the need for more live fire training, and not just laying your ass on the grass, but shoot houses, jungle trails, hogans alley's, etc. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/8/2017 6:27:03 PM EDT
[#7]
Select-fire double tap, too much recoil.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/8/2017 6:27:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Honestly, issuing M240 to every troop in the squad makes more sense than a general-issue a select-fire rifle in 7.62X51.
At least that would give you some added capabilities in exchange for throwing mobility out the window. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/8/2017 6:29:59 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ah jeez you mangina's, I was 150lbs, at 5 foot 8, carrying an M-60 and 200 rounds, plus spare barrel etc. Man the fuck up. However, I do agree with the need for more live fire training, and not just laying your ass on the grass, but shoot houses, jungle trails, hogans alley's, etc. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/8/2017 6:33:56 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ah jeez you mangina's, I was 150lbs, at 5 foot 8, carrying an M-60 and 200 rounds, plus spare barrel etc. Man the fuck up. However, I do agree with the need for more live fire training, and not just laying your ass on the grass, but shoot houses, jungle trails, hogans alley's, etc. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/8/2017 6:41:35 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Idiots in the head shed doing "leadership" things again. 1. Have you ever had a problem with someone AFTER you shot them with 5.56? 2. Do you often use small arms to engage targets beyond 500Meters? 3. Do feel carrying 3x the weight for the same amount of ammo is a reasonable trade off for better range? 4. Are you a general whose "command" is a dozen or so "troops" who only produce coffee and powerpoints? But I do remember from the book Black Hawk Down, that troops were constantly bitching about the lack of stopping power with 5.56. The enemy was high on Kat and would easily take three or four hits to the chest and keep going. What I don't understand why this need to use either a 223 or 308. There is a lot of room between those two calibers (and power range). Why not pick something in the middle. A round with more power that 223, but lighter weight than 308. The midpoint between the two would be .264 caliber. Or even 0.227. Bullet weight for military 308 = 147 grn, .223 = 69 grn, try a 110 grn bullet, or 125 grn. A 308 case holds about 55.6 grains of water. A 223 case holds about 30 grains. Design a case that holds 42.8 grains, is tapered to feed and extract easily. A 6.5x47 lapua holds 47 grains. Here is the cartridge that you seek. 6.5x47 Lapua |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/8/2017 6:44:46 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Personally, no. But I do remember from the book Black Hawk Down, that troops were constantly bitching about the lack of stopping power with 5.56. The enemy was high on Kat and would easily take three or four hits to the chest and keep going. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/8/2017 6:45:47 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
supposedly that was later partially debunked because some of the alleged "hits" were actually misses, but I don't know for sure. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/8/2017 7:38:48 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What I don't understand why this need to use either a 223 or 308. There is a lot of room between those two calibers (and power range). Why not pick something in the middle. A round with more power that 223, but lighter weight than 308. From everything I've read, it seems a 6.5mm cartridge would work mighty fine. Now if one of us could get CSA out to the range one Sunday afternoon to shoot some 6.5 Grendel, we might change things. Otherwise, 7.62 is all he knows so its what he wants. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/8/2017 8:34:16 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the Generals pushing this are not gun-nuts who cruise the AR15.com technical forums for 2 hours each day. All they know for small arms technology is 5.56mm and 7.62mm. They don't have this forum's depth of knowledge, and they don't want to hear about what the civilian world (spit!) has developed because the civilian world is not The Military. So if they look for something bigger than 5.56 that is available now as a known round, they default to 7.62. From everything I've read, it seems a 6.5mm cartridge would work mighty fine. Now if one of us could get CSA out to the range one Sunday afternoon to shoot some 6.5 Grendel, we might change things. Otherwise, 7.62 is all he knows so its what he wants. SOCOM is testing a bunch of 6mm rounds and that will likely be what the ICSR becomes. I hope no matter what is chosen we end up with a DI gun, something that will be offered on the civilian market and maybe even something like you said....The GII that we can begin building clones of ourselves. That would be my dream, to be able to clone it easily. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/8/2017 9:12:34 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty sure I've seen something about LMT offering auto as an option on the MWS, so yes, you can add them to that list. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
We've done full auto 7.62x51 in light rifles- I thought the military conclusion was that it was a retarded idea? A 100% COTS rifle by September 6th, it must be 100% ambi, 16-20" barrel length, capable of S-1-F fire settings, and companies are not allowed to extensively modify the rifle. It has to be a true commercial off the shelf rifle. I can only think of two, maybe three companies that build 7.62 rifles to function in fully automatic fire. Colt with their 901. FN with the SCAR. Maybe LMT. Select-fire prototype testing, early 2011: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZA0upR5CNc Suppressed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlYwhb1-F_g |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/8/2017 9:28:24 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
New Zealand adopted a select-fire MWS variant for a DMR in late 2011: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byZPhAVoqdI Select-fire prototype testing, early 2011: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZA0upR5CNc Suppressed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlYwhb1-F_g I have a feeling we will see them enter into this in that case. However I still hope we see one of the small frame AR-10's win over the large frame ones. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/8/2017 11:24:07 PM EDT
[#18]
They had the perfect FMJ round and walked right by it......the M193.
It can penetrate AR500 body armor where M855 leaves a dimple. Why can it do that?....speed. Any 16" .308 will not achieve this test.....(unless some secret squirrel AP round at close distances) Grendal 6.5 fanbios .....take your glorified 30-30 and go home. Army switching to 16" barrels means less muzzles will be dragged thru the dirt and sand rather than the 20". Maybe they can hit a target since they didn't fuck up the muzzle. DM's with a 20" AR with M193 and you will put down pajama boys so much your DM's finger will get tired. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/8/2017 11:44:37 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, but you'll get a robotic exoskeleton to help you carry it all.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
210 round combat load?
They already have enough knee and back issues... |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 12:25:14 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
210rds..pfffft...I had 13 loaded mags on me in Iraq, plus 9 40mm grenades and 2 frags. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 9:07:40 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They had the perfect FMJ round and walked right by it......the M193. It can penetrate AR500 body armor where M855 leaves a dimple. Why can it do that?....speed. Any 16" .308 will not achieve this test.....(unless some secret squirrel AP round at close distances) Grendal 6.5 fanbios .....take your glorified 30-30 and go home. Army switching to 16" barrels means less muzzles will be dragged thru the dirt and sand rather than the 20". Maybe they can hit a target since they didn't fuck up the muzzle. DM's with a 20" AR with M193 and you will put down pajama boys so much your DM's finger will get tired.
Who has steel body armor?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 9:14:23 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They had the perfect FMJ round and walked right by it......the M193. It can penetrate AR500 body armor where M855 leaves a dimple. Why can it do that?....speed. Good ceramics stop both. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 9:49:07 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They had the perfect FMJ round and walked right by it......the M193. It can penetrate AR500 body armor where M855 leaves a dimple. Why can it do that?....speed. Any 16" .308 will not achieve this test.....(unless some secret squirrel AP round at close distances) Grendal 6.5 fanbios .....take your glorified 30-30 and go home. Army switching to 16" barrels means less muzzles will be dragged thru the dirt and sand rather than the 20". Maybe they can hit a target since they didn't fuck up the muzzle. DM's with a 20" AR with M193 and you will put down pajama boys so much your DM's finger will get tired. "Mah M16A1 is the greatest combat rifle eva, all you whipper snappers need M193 magic bullet! Now get off my lawn" |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 10:09:12 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow, to live to see it. As time went by it was bound to happen, after all, the guys who humped M1s are disappearing and now the old men yelling at squirrels are the ones who grew up watching The Beatles on TV. "Mah M16A1 is the greatest combat rifle eva, all you whipper snappers need M193 magic bullet! Now get off my lawn" |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 10:20:05 AM EDT
[#25]
.277 Wolverine anyone?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 10:25:55 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.277 Wolverine anyone? It would be interesting to see the GII platform win this. Anything small frame that's not the SCAR plz. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 10:30:55 AM EDT
[#27]
These threads are beyond fucking dumb. The resident so-called "experts" have showed up to speak of their "buddies" experiences...while others never carried a weapon one day in combat. Nobody cares what your opinions are. They'll run the trial and not change anything, regardless of the pros and cons of going to a larger round. Y'all are like a bunch of emotional women fighting over who makes the best purse.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 10:30:57 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And yet it's the cold warriors brining about the resurgence of the .308 rifle for all mentality. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Wow, to live to see it. As time went by it was bound to happen, after all, the guys who humped M1s are disappearing and now the old men yelling at squirrels are the ones who grew up watching The Beatles on TV. "Mah M16A1 is the greatest combat rifle eva, all you whipper snappers need M193 magic bullet! Now get off my lawn" 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 10:32:09 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
7.62 now, 6.5mm later(SOCOM is testing around 26 different calibers in 6mm range to find the next one). It would be interesting to see the GII platform win this. Anything small frame that's not the SCAR plz. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 10:40:39 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh look another expert with a knowledge base developed from years of video games and nutnfancy videos. SOCOM testing 6mm rounds for snipers/DMRs. The Army is doing a Small Arms Ammunition Configuration study, and now they have a RFP for a 7.62 interim caliber rifle. Come on. A few months ago everyone told me a RFP was impossible and would never ever ever happen. Now the RFP is here and once again GD is wrong on what the Military is doing. Fact is, a .308 rifle will replace the M4 and then some new caliber will replace the 7.62 in the ICSR via barrel and maybe a bolt change. I'll enjoy all the crow eating when this RFP is successful, if for no other reason than all the insults I have received because I posted this thread. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 11:05:53 AM EDT
[#31]
So do you think the Army will do a proper drop test on this one?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 11:18:19 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So do you think the Army will do a proper drop test on this one? |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 11:19:20 AM EDT
[#33]
Another giant waste of tax money.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 11:44:31 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
These threads are beyond fucking dumb. The resident so-called "experts" have showed up to speak of their "buddies" experiences...while others never carried a weapon one day in combat. Nobody cares what your opinions are. They'll run the trial and not change anything, regardless of the pros and cons of going to a larger round. Y'all are like a bunch of emotional women fighting over who makes the best purse. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 11:51:28 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They had the perfect FMJ round and walked right by it......the M193. It can penetrate AR500 body armor where M855 leaves a dimple. Why can it do that?....speed. Any 16" .308 will not achieve this test.....(unless some secret squirrel AP round at close distances) Grendal 6.5 fanbios .....take your glorified 30-30 and go home. Army switching to 16" barrels means less muzzles will be dragged thru the dirt and sand rather than the 20". Maybe they can hit a target since they didn't fuck up the muzzle. DM's with a 20" AR with M193 and you will put down pajama boys so much your DM's finger will get tired. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 11:54:52 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You weren't forced to read this thread or post in it. Yet here you are... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
These threads are beyond fucking dumb. The resident so-called "experts" have showed up to speak of their "buddies" experiences...while others never carried a weapon one day in combat. Nobody cares what your opinions are. They'll run the trial and not change anything, regardless of the pros and cons of going to a larger round. Y'all are like a bunch of emotional women fighting over who makes the best purse. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 12:00:18 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm all for intelligent conversation...but the same 3-4 individuals flock to these topics and inject their uneducated bullshit. Or Joglee just turns it into a Joglee thread....unable to decide if he along will be responsible for selecting either a DPMS or an HK for the Army to utilize as an interim service rifle... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
These threads are beyond fucking dumb. The resident so-called "experts" have showed up to speak of their "buddies" experiences...while others never carried a weapon one day in combat. Nobody cares what your opinions are. They'll run the trial and not change anything, regardless of the pros and cons of going to a larger round. Y'all are like a bunch of emotional women fighting over who makes the best purse. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 12:07:37 PM EDT
[#38]
Are there any proven 6.5 loads capable of defeating this armor?
Havent read the entire thread, so I apologize if this has already been answered. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 12:12:25 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is, but it's what they want. A 100% COTS rifle by September 6th, it must be 100% ambi, 16-20" barrel length, capable of S-1-F fire settings, and companies are not allowed to extensively modify the rifle. It has to be a true commercial off the shelf rifle. I can only think of two, maybe three companies that build 7.62 rifles to function in fully automatic fire. Colt with their 901. FN with the SCAR. Maybe LMT. And that's about it. I don't know of many .308 rifles built to work in full auto these days. Most are built with semi auto fire in mind. Of those two only the Colt is 100% ambi on all controls. There's no way the Army would spend a metric shit ton of money just to conclude that the M4 5.56 platform is fine. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 12:13:56 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are there any proven 6.5 loads capable of defeating this armor? Havent read the entire thread, so I apologize if this has already been answered. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 12:19:53 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You could probably add the POF .308 to that list. There's no way the Army would spend a metric shit ton of money just to conclude that the M4 5.56 platform is fine. Every time(except the ACR trials) it has always been "let's replace the M4 with a different 5.56 rifle". This time it's "let's replace the M4 with a .308 that can use the new XM1157, polymer cased ammunition as well as all that SLAP, M80A1, and M993 we have because 5.56 cannot defeat peer nation body armor but our 7.62 can.". |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 12:28:33 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
then scroll down or put them on ignore. This is GD, not a tech forum, so don't come in expecting pure clinical discussion. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 12:37:32 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow, to live to see it. As time went by it was bound to happen, after all, the guys who humped M1s are disappearing and now the old men yelling at squirrels are the ones who grew up watching The Beatles on TV. "Mah M16A1 is the greatest combat rifle eva, all you whipper snappers need M193 magic bullet! Now get off my lawn"  AR500 Armor® Body Armor Threat Level Discussion | Sit & Talk |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 12:39:37 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You've been around long enough to remember when having an IQ higher than your age was the norm here...even in the GD. Apparently that's changed. The Army launched a Caliber study. Then Army Chief of Staff went before Congress and said 5.56 won't work, and doesn't work against peer nations armor. We need 7.62. At this point I was assured nothing would happen. Then ACC launches a RFI for a 7.62 battle rifle with pretty strict requirements. Once again I was assured nothing would happen. Now ACC launches an actual RFP with very lax and minimal requirements, that were drastically cut from the RFI, then they also greatly speed up the acquisition process. On top of that they left wording in the RFP that allows them to alter the maximum number of rifles ordered if they decide they need or want more. The Army caliber study will conclude around 2020-2022, which means there will be a ton of these ICSRs in inventory by that time that they can convert to the new caliber. This is happening. The M16/M4 served this country for 60 years, but it is on the way out as the standard issue rifle for the US Military. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 12:40:17 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Another giant waste of tax money. For the secret squirrel types, that's a non-issue (they'll get the money to buy whatever toys they want). For the line grunts...enjoy your M-16's and M-4's...at least until they're completely clapped out AND the 5.56mm rounds are all gone. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 12:41:02 PM EDT
[#46]
Smh. NTSA
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 12:43:15 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote History |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 12:56:14 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How about some bullet points so I don't need to watch hipster gun dude's yammer on youtube for five minutes? |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 1:00:15 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Delta dude, MCOE Dude, and former 82nd AFB MG all agree this is happening, the guy with the card is ready to swipe it and the rifle has already been chosen. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/9/2017 1:01:19 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wasnt' discussing that. That was a reply to Mr. "Mah M16A1", he posted a youtube video but I'm not watching the whole thing, he could just quote pertinent info or link to a time mark for what he wants us to watch. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
