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Posted: 2/12/2021 12:46:09 PM EDT
[#1]
Tell your friend to identify himself as Christian Scientist and that vaccines are an affront to his religious beliefs.
His boss cannot legally make him prove that he is not a CS. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 12:47:45 PM EDT
[#2]
I had heard the fact it is under emergency authorization means it cannot be a requirement to hold a job but a lot of states allow you to be fired for any reason or no reason.
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Posted: 2/12/2021 12:48:37 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had heard the fact it is under emergency authorization means it cannot be a requirement to hold a job but a lot of states allow you to be fired for any reason or no reason. I have heard this as well. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 12:48:45 PM EDT
[#4]
I don't think that companies can legally force you to do anything....
If your friend works for the government or the state (E.g. teacher, school bus driver, ....) other rules might apply. E.g. Some schools force kids and staff to get the flu vaccine A buddy of mine talks about homeschooling if his kids would be forced to take the vaccine... |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 12:49:02 PM EDT
[#5]
Its my understanding that you can't be forced to take it under an Emergency Use Authorization.
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Posted: 2/12/2021 12:49:37 PM EDT
[#6]
Yes if;
-it's not discriminatory based on religious belief, or -it's not an ADA claim on the employee's part to refuse based on medical advice and they request accommodation ETA: Well, that's how it was regarding flu vaccine. Don't know if that's changed with the emergency use stuff regarding covid vaccines. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 12:50:18 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think that companies can legally force you to do anything.... If your friend works for the government or the state (E.g. teacher, school bus driver, ....) other rules might apply. E.g. Some schools force kids and staff to get the flu vaccine A buddy of mine talks about homeschooling if his kids would be forced to take the vaccine... A vaccine under an emergency authorization is a whole different matter than the flu shot. Even the military hasn’t been talking about making it mandatory. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 12:52:06 PM EDT
[#8]
Probably.
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Posted: 2/12/2021 12:53:34 PM EDT
[#9]
My body my choice right?
Or does that not apply when it comes to injecting stuff into your body as part of a beta test? |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 12:56:00 PM EDT
[#10]
Where is HIPAa in all this.
I didn't think anyone had a right to know my medical history without my consent. And that my consent can not be compelled. Have you had the shot? Answer HIPAA ! |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 12:57:46 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where is HIPAa in all this. I didn't think anyone had a right to know my medical history without my consent. And that my consent can not be compelled. Have you had the shot? Answer HIPAA ! Your employer likely isn’t a covered entity and a shot record for a vaccination doesn’t identify you with a medical condition. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 12:58:47 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A vaccine under an emergency authorization is a whole different matter than the flu shot. Even the military hasn’t been talking about making it mandatory. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't think that companies can legally force you to do anything.... If your friend works for the government or the state (E.g. teacher, school bus driver, ....) other rules might apply. E.g. Some schools force kids and staff to get the flu vaccine A buddy of mine talks about homeschooling if his kids would be forced to take the vaccine... A vaccine under an emergency authorization is a whole different matter than the flu shot. Even the military hasn’t been talking about making it mandatory. My understanding is that there is a loophole for schools: - Essentially you share the medical information of your kid with the school (no one does that with his employer) - The fine print with the school indicates that you have to do an annual visit at your pediatrician and a flu shot - Mandating the COVID vaccine is as simple as passing the board of education Of course its possible to challenge them if there are enough parents that disagree with a mandatory COVID vaccine |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 12:59:27 PM EDT
[#13]
I kind of agree from the standpoint of abortion. If they can force you to take a vaccine, could they force you to have an abortion because pregnancy results in time away from work?
It's kind of a can of worms. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 12:59:55 PM EDT
[#14]
Chllax, it won't become mandatory until the supply catches up in a few months.
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:00:00 PM EDT
[#15]
Probably not. They will however find a reason to fire him if he doesn't want to play ball and they're that serious about it.
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:01:07 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably not. They will however find a reason to fire him even he doesn't want to play ball and they're that serious about it. Which raises another concern. Could a "less than honest" person claim they've had the shot when they haven't? Would an employer be within his rights to ask to see your vaccination card? |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:03:08 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My understanding is that there is a loophole for schools: - Essentially you share the medical information of your kid with the school (no one does that with his employer) - The fine print with the school indicates that you have to do an annual visit at your pediatrician and a flu shot - Mandating the COVID vaccine is as simple as passing the board of education Of course its possible to challenge them if there are enough parents that disagree with a mandatory COVID vaccine Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't think that companies can legally force you to do anything.... If your friend works for the government or the state (E.g. teacher, school bus driver, ....) other rules might apply. E.g. Some schools force kids and staff to get the flu vaccine A buddy of mine talks about homeschooling if his kids would be forced to take the vaccine... A vaccine under an emergency authorization is a whole different matter than the flu shot. Even the military hasn’t been talking about making it mandatory. My understanding is that there is a loophole for schools: - Essentially you share the medical information of your kid with the school (no one does that with his employer) - The fine print with the school indicates that you have to do an annual visit at your pediatrician and a flu shot - Mandating the COVID vaccine is as simple as passing the board of education Of course its possible to challenge them if there are enough parents that disagree with a mandatory COVID vaccine The vaccine manufacturers have their get out of litigation card from the feds. Do employers that mandate their employees get the shot as a condition of employment have the same? |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:03:17 PM EDT
[#18]
Photoshop
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:03:24 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My understanding is that there is a loophole for schools: - Essentially you share the medical information of your kid with the school (no one does that with his employer) - The fine print with the school indicates that you have to do an annual visit at your pediatrician and a flu shot - Mandating the COVID vaccine is as simple as passing the board of education Of course its possible to challenge them if there are enough parents that disagree with a mandatory COVID vaccine Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't think that companies can legally force you to do anything.... If your friend works for the government or the state (E.g. teacher, school bus driver, ....) other rules might apply. E.g. Some schools force kids and staff to get the flu vaccine A buddy of mine talks about homeschooling if his kids would be forced to take the vaccine... A vaccine under an emergency authorization is a whole different matter than the flu shot. Even the military hasn't been talking about making it mandatory. My understanding is that there is a loophole for schools: - Essentially you share the medical information of your kid with the school (no one does that with his employer) - The fine print with the school indicates that you have to do an annual visit at your pediatrician and a flu shot - Mandating the COVID vaccine is as simple as passing the board of education Of course its possible to challenge them if there are enough parents that disagree with a mandatory COVID vaccine Any non-governmental employer (or maybe non-healthcare employer) who forced employees to get an emergency use authorization vaccine would likely be in significant legal jeopardy were someone to sue them. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:03:24 PM EDT
[#20]
IDK, let me talk to my boss, one sec.
He's says no. Best boss I ever had. 
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:03:52 PM EDT
[#21]
That'll depend on state laws. I'm not a lawyer, but in Wyoming, I'm 99% certain they could get away with saying emloyees can't have any more shifts until they've got proof of vaccination on file.
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:04:03 PM EDT
[#22]
Is your employer going to take responsibility and be held liable if the vaccine causes you some unforeseen long term health side effects or death?
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:04:15 PM EDT
[#23]
My wife is a nurse. Her employer said it’s not mandatory.....but if you get sick from COVID and haven’t taken the vaccine they offered, they won’t pay you during sick leave
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:05:13 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My wife is a nurse. Her employer said it’s not mandatory.....but if you get sick from COVID and haven’t taken the vaccine they offered, they won’t pay you during sick leave My girlfriend is a nurse and they forced all of them to get it. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:06:00 PM EDT
[#25]
An employer cannot force an employee to do anything. It’s not slavery. If your friend doesn’t like it, he can resign.
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:06:42 PM EDT
[#26]
I already know how the comversation will go at work with me.
Health and safety person- Hey, have you taken your vaccine? Me- If I take it can I take this mask off? Health and safety person- No Me- Then, no. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:06:51 PM EDT
[#27]
Assume and prepare for the worst.
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:07:13 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: An employer cannot force an employee to do anything. It’s not slavery. If your friend doesn’t like it, he can resign. Well, there's the rub, isn't it? The point is to be able to refuse the shot without consequences. Jobs ain't that easy to find when half the economy is shut down. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:08:36 PM EDT
[#29]
Right now, I believe the answer is "probably"
By the fall, I believe the answer will be "definitely" |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:10:09 PM EDT
[#30]
I’ve talked to an employment lawyer about it a couple months ago.
Here in FL- They can make it a requirement for employment If you chose not to get it, they can fire you There hasn’t been any case law established yet for this particular scenario. So I guess you’d file for unemployment or whatever else you would want to pursue. From talking to someone dealing with vaccine and employment issues, they’ve seen ridiculous pressure from the employer. People were afraid to lose their jobs and stood in line crying while waiting for the shot. Truly a great place to work. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:12:32 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had heard the fact it is under emergency authorization means it cannot be a requirement to hold a job but a lot of states allow you to be fired for any reason or no reason. This. 
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:12:42 PM EDT
[#32]
If it's at will employment, then absolutely they can make it mandatory to work there.
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:15:16 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: An employer cannot force an employee to do anything. It’s not slavery. If your friend doesn’t like it, he can resign.  |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:17:44 PM EDT
[#34]
I would guess that it depends on the state. Right to work states vs no right to work states.
They'll probably justify it as a safety issue and send you home until you get it. If you don't get it, you don't come back. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:20:17 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would guess that it depends on the state. Right to work states vs no right to work states. They'll probably justify it as a safety issue and send you home until you get it. If you don't get it, you don't come back. I would at least ask for a copy of a memo that states it’s a mandatory, job related vaccine for the lawsuits when the long term effects show up. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:20:48 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: An employer cannot force an employee to do anything. It’s not slavery. If your friend doesn’t like it, he can resign. 
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:22:08 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where is HIPAa in all this. I didn't think anyone had a right to know my medical history without my consent. And that my consent can not be compelled. Have you had the shot? Answer HIPAA ! HIPPA prevents your doctor from releasing private information without consent. Your employer has the right to compel you to answer health related questions that affect your ability to do your job. This idea that "my employer has no right to my health info" is simply ridiculous and more often than not harmful to the employee. How do you ask for reasonable accommodations without informing your employer what needs to be accommodated? How do you request FMLA for injury or illness without reporting the injury or illness? Taking that line with your employer generally results in LOSING the protections employment law gives you and frees the employer up to simply fire you. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:22:18 PM EDT
[#38]
For the record, I am assuming that my employer will make it mandatory for faculty and staff within the next couple of months.
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:22:27 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would at least ask for a copy of a memo that states it’s a mandatory, job related vaccine for the lawsuits when the long term effects show up. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I would guess that it depends on the state. Right to work states vs no right to work states. They'll probably justify it as a safety issue and send you home until you get it. If you don't get it, you don't come back. I would at least ask for a copy of a memo that states it’s a mandatory, job related vaccine for the lawsuits when the long term effects show up. If that is the case, employers are damned if they do, damned if they don’t. If they require the vaccine, and it has side effects, they get sued. If they don’t require the vaccine, and one employee passes Covid to another employee, they get sued. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:23:01 PM EDT
[#40]
I could see a scenario where the boss tells you that you have to get it.
You politely reply, "Sir, could I request that you put that in writing?" He says "why", of course. You reply, "I want a paper trail so that if I have a negative reaction to the vaccine I have some legal recourse." That might get you fired on the spot, but it could also intimidate that manager into backing down. I used a similar technique on a job 20+ years ago. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:23:19 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: An employer cannot force an employee to do anything. It’s not slavery. If your friend doesn’t like it, he can resign. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1715/technically-correct-196442.jpg Which is why you can still sexually harass subordinates. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:23:23 PM EDT
[#42]
Force? No.
Make it a requirement for employment? Yes. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:23:55 PM EDT
[#43]
Employers are only the tip. Just wait until retail, banks, transportation, etc. get into the game.
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:24:58 PM EDT
[#44]
If it ever becomes “mandatory”, then I will tell them I have taken the vaccine. Let them try and prove I didn’t.
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:25:23 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I kind of agree from the standpoint of abortion. If they can force you to take a vaccine, could they force you to have an abortion because pregnancy results in time away from work? It's kind of a can of worms. The basis of your claim is "results in time away from work" is the condition the employer wants to prevent. Unfortunately for them in this case pregnancy is one of the MANY qualifying events for FMLA protection. So no, they can't do any such thing. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:25:50 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You don't know what HIPAA is then, which is common. HIPPA prevents your doctor from releasing private information without consent. Your employer has the right to compel you to answer health related questions that affect your ability to do your job. This idea that "my employer has no right to my health info" is simply ridiculous and more often than not harmful to the employee. How do you ask for reasonable accommodations without informing your employer what needs to be accommodated? How do you request FMLA for injury or illness without reporting the injury or illness? Taking that line with your employer generally results in LOSING the protections employment law gives you and frees the employer up to simply fire you. For what it’s worth, ADA accommodations and FMLA are optional things that employees can choose to request. That’s a different thing than an employer requiring medical information. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:26:06 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Employers are only the tip. Just wait until retail, banks, transportation, etc. get into the game. Point taken, but that's a separate issue. Yes, "no shot, no service" is going to be a thing. I predict a cottage industry of fake vaccine cards will be born. I plan to purchase one. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:26:09 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If that is the case, employers are damned if they do, damned if they don’t. If they require the vaccine, and it has side effects, they get sued. If they don’t require the vaccine, and one employee passes Covid to another employee, they get sued. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I would guess that it depends on the state. Right to work states vs no right to work states. They'll probably justify it as a safety issue and send you home until you get it. If you don't get it, you don't come back. I would at least ask for a copy of a memo that states it’s a mandatory, job related vaccine for the lawsuits when the long term effects show up. If that is the case, employers are damned if they do, damned if they don’t. If they require the vaccine, and it has side effects, they get sued. If they don’t require the vaccine, and one employee passes Covid to another employee, they get sued. People will have a choice to get it on their own. How will the employer be held responsible if someone gets sick? Were employers ever sued if one person got someone else sick from _______? ETA: can’t the employer just turn around and argue the first point? You had a choice you didn’t have to take it. You could quit. You even signed the waiver. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:27:09 PM EDT
[#49]
The following cut and paste from web site I frequent. Not something I have tested.
How To Legally Decline A Vaccine STEP 1.) DO NOT refuse'a vaccine. Otherwise you will be considered belligerent. Instead you can politely decline the service by doing the following: STEP 2.) Ask the doctor, "Does the vaccine have MRC-5 in it?" (THEY ALL DO) These are aborted fetal cells and other DNA. If the vaccine contains MRC-5 you have the RIGHT to decline. STEP 3.) Also ask, "Is there a possibility of a "LATROGENIC REACTION? (an adverse reaction caused by multiple compounds or drugs interacting with each other) from the vaccine (THEY ALL DO). - When the doctor says, "yes it does, that is your "Get Out Of Vaccine Free Card. Thank the doctor for their offer and walk away. Remember doctors have sworn the Hippocratic Oath (Which is to do no harm) They must honour it This is how we can legally (and respectfully) decline their offered mandated services and there is absolutely nothing they can do about it. Now you know! PLEASE SHARE WITH EVERYONE YOU CARE ABOUT! |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 1:29:31 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I could see a scenario where the boss tells you that you have to get it. You politely reply, "Sir, could I request that you put that in writing?" He says "why", of course. You reply, "I want a paper trail so that if I have a negative reaction to the vaccine I have some legal recourse." That might get you fired on the spot, but it could also intimidate that manager into backing down. I used a similar technique on a job 20+ years ago. |
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