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Posted: 6/17/2022 11:29:46 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Made in China True, but not sold to america. Wonder if they pay attention to the metallurgy when it is for them? Hope not. |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 11:30:06 AM EDT
[#2]
Is that self storage units a top the flight deck?
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Posted: 6/17/2022 11:30:43 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Second time you've mentioned these. How exactly is a kill switch in a sub component being found and how is it supposed to work if it's not tie into a communications infrastructure? A few years back the F35's were grounded temporarily due to finding small integrated chips in crucial components. The Japanese voiced concerns that the chip was indeed a remote Killswitch that can bring the jet down by a flip of a switch. DOD claims it's been handled. Japan lost an F35, powered down mid flight. Japan whistled it was done purposely by unknown source. Around the same era, remote operated valves on ships were found with the same mysterious chips in it's sending components. There are legit sources for unclassified info on the web, I apologise for not providing source material right now. I'm in and out of this thread between chores at home. Imagine the chaos that can be brought if EVERYTHING made in China had a cheap 0.003 cent chip that can be switched off. |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 11:30:47 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Made in China |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 11:33:50 AM EDT
[#5]
America looking at a small, poor, low-tech country like Russia and projecting the conclusions on a big, rich, high-tech country like China to draw the conclusion we don't need to compete (in order to triangulate between rightist populist isolationism and the leftist establishment managing our decline) is a problem.
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Posted: 6/17/2022 11:35:29 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll read it later. China has an all volunteer military, they always have. They can do conscription, but they have never needed to. People like to talk about tech, shit Chinese quality, etc. But, China has the mfg capability and the numbers. The tech is outdated, but look at the Russia vs Germany in WWII. The US is a loooooong distance from the area China wants to control. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I recently read this article, the author’s name caught my attention https://warontherocks.com/2022/06/putins-lessons-for-the-all-volunteer-force/ I'll read it later. China has an all volunteer military, they always have. They can do conscription, but they have never needed to. People like to talk about tech, shit Chinese quality, etc. But, China has the mfg capability and the numbers. The tech is outdated, but look at the Russia vs Germany in WWII. The US is a loooooong distance from the area China wants to control. ?!? |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 11:36:57 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @sigking I thought it was me at first but yeah your absolutely correct, many things in that picture look off. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Damn thing looks fake. Too small, proportions not right, like a kit car on a VW frame back in the 80's China is still asshole @sigking I thought it was me at first but yeah your absolutely correct, many things in that picture look off. I think it's just a really hi res pic. Pic matches the video below.  China Launches First Aircraft Carrier Which Rivals U.S. Navy’s |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 11:39:24 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are the sinophile bed wetters pissing their pants in blind panic yet? At least throw in a gif or video with your post   The Dark Knight Rises (2012) - Bane Calm Down Doctor Now Is Not the Time for Fear |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 11:41:45 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ayup. American exceptionalism lulz Looks like someone is going for energy independence. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/463094/1481DC88-62A6-430F-8EE2-2C708893BF77_png-2421114.JPG Meanwhile we are burning forest and tires for power and erecting wind turbines and solar fields  Wow that's a scary graph. Better than Argentina but not as good as turkey. |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 11:41:51 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thing that pisses me off is the fact that is a valid question. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Who sold, gave or left the catapult schematics unencrypted? Thing that pisses me off is the fact that is a valid question. Remember “Chinagate” is 1996? Pepperidge Farm remembers. For those who don't, Chinagate was one of the most serious and traitorous scandals in American history where the Clintons sold some of America’s most sensitive technology, including nuclear missile, satellite and naval vessel technology to the Chinese. |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 11:47:47 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A few years back the F35's were grounded temporarily due to finding small integrated chips in crucial components. The Japanese voiced concerns that the chip was indeed a remote Killswitch that can bring the jet down by a flip of a switch. DOD claims it's been handled. Japan lost an F35, powered down mid flight. Japan whistled it was done purposely by unknown source. Around the same era, remote operated valves on ships were found with the same mysterious chips in it's sending components. There are legit sources for unclassified info on the web, I apologise for not providing source material right now. I'm in and out of this thread between chores at home. Imagine the chaos that can be brought if EVERYTHING made in China had a cheap 0.003 cent chip that can be switched off. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Second time you've mentioned these. How exactly is a kill switch in a sub component being found and how is it supposed to work if it's not tie into a communications infrastructure? A few years back the F35's were grounded temporarily due to finding small integrated chips in crucial components. The Japanese voiced concerns that the chip was indeed a remote Killswitch that can bring the jet down by a flip of a switch. DOD claims it's been handled. Japan lost an F35, powered down mid flight. Japan whistled it was done purposely by unknown source. Around the same era, remote operated valves on ships were found with the same mysterious chips in it's sending components. There are legit sources for unclassified info on the web, I apologise for not providing source material right now. I'm in and out of this thread between chores at home. Imagine the chaos that can be brought if EVERYTHING made in China had a cheap 0.003 cent chip that can be switched off. There were a lot of processors found to have an extra chip hidden on them- supposedly they have no idea how many are out there. Just one example (left cold since it's bloomburg): https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 11:53:08 AM EDT
[#12]
It has steam boilers, six of them. The naval boiler design should be developed with the help of Ukrainian.
Some source claim it's electric drive, as the stream turbines are connected to generators instead of gearbox. There are additional gas turbine onboard for extra powers during launch ops. Doesn't seem like the EMLS been installed. The launch date today is a historical Chinese holiday with a 2300 year tradition. |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 12:07:29 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's why they've been doing those incursions into Japanese waters. To practice and learn. They believe they need to 2060 to reach 100% parity with the USN but imo they don't have the luxury of that time. Of course half of GD doesn't think China will actually do anything other than wait and buy off US politicians, companies and eventually isolate Taiwan from the world until they just own it without firing a shot. I disagree with that. China is uncharacteristically in a rush and impatient these days if you read local Chinese media. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Building one isn't the same as fighting one. That's why they've been doing those incursions into Japanese waters. To practice and learn. They believe they need to 2060 to reach 100% parity with the USN but imo they don't have the luxury of that time. Of course half of GD doesn't think China will actually do anything other than wait and buy off US politicians, companies and eventually isolate Taiwan from the world until they just own it without firing a shot. I disagree with that. China is uncharacteristically in a rush and impatient these days if you read local Chinese media. |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 12:13:09 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And in 1995 their growing capability was the focus of my thesis for my Master's degree studies in national defense planning. I was told I was way off... guess not. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A decade ago Many on arfcom assured me that China would never have a blue water navy capable of doing carrier operations. It's scary how quickly they advance by stealing technology. And in 1995 their growing capability was the focus of my thesis for my Master's degree studies in national defense planning. I was told I was way off... guess not. |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 12:18:05 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There were a lot of processors found to have an extra chip hidden on them- supposedly they have no idea how many are out there. Just one example (left cold since it's bloomburg): https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies I was working for Lockheed when the memo/ruling came out where DOD said it was okay to source parts manufactured in China, I remember co-workers and I discussing the high probability that the DOD ruling would bite America in the ass. |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 12:21:46 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow that's a scary graph. Better than Argentina but not as good as turkey. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ayup. American exceptionalism lulz Looks like someone is going for energy independence. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/463094/1481DC88-62A6-430F-8EE2-2C708893BF77_png-2421114.JPG Meanwhile we are burning forest and tires for power and erecting wind turbines and solar fields Wow that's a scary graph. Better than Argentina but not as good as turkey. The writing is on the wall. |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 12:28:57 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was working for Lockheed when the memo/ruling came out where DOD said it was okay to source parts manufactured in China, I remember co-workers and I discussing the high probability that the DOD ruling would bite America in the ass. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There were a lot of processors found to have an extra chip hidden on them- supposedly they have no idea how many are out there. Just one example (left cold since it's bloomburg): https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies I was working for Lockheed when the memo/ruling came out where DOD said it was okay to source parts manufactured in China, I remember co-workers and I discussing the high probability that the DOD ruling would bite America in the ass. Has no one watched Battlestar Galactica? Maybe the Chinese did? |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 12:31:16 PM EDT
[#18]
All I know if Japan supposedly had an inferior Navy and they had the USN turned inside out for most of 1942. The only thing the US did better that year was dive bombing and ship damage control. We were lucky Japan didn’t have triple our population like china does.
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Posted: 6/17/2022 12:37:05 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lulz, wake me up when they have launched their 11th aircraft carrier |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 1:09:16 PM EDT
[#20]
Not gonna lie, looks half decent.
Also, the US just admitted recently that China does indeed have Gen 5 fighters. |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 1:10:00 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I see you intend to take a nap. See what you did .gif |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 1:15:33 PM EDT
[#22]
The war in Ukraine is being won by artillery, not 5th gen fighters, so look for a lot more articles like this talking about China's advanced technology. Defense contractors need to shift focus on to something that will justify more .gov money.
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Posted: 6/17/2022 1:20:44 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The war in Ukraine is being won by artillery, not 5th gen fighters, so look for a lot more articles like this talking about China's advanced technology. Defense contractors need to shift focus on to something that will justify more .gov money. Not gonna work - budget has been flat for all but Navy and Congress appears to be pissed off at USN contracts. DOD is lucky Ukraine happened as FY 2023 was looking at another 5% drop. Even with flat budgets USMC is ejecting personnel to cover acquisitions and Army is dropping 12,000 personnel this year. Good luck fighting China by yourself Navy. USAF is claiming it’s overwhelmed but Congress has tacked on more aircraft despite a lessened but continuing pilot shortage. |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 1:24:40 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's with the artillery mount on the stbd sponson? Most likely a chinese CIWS. |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 1:29:00 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A few years back the F35's were grounded temporarily due to finding small integrated chips in crucial components. The Japanese voiced concerns that the chip was indeed a remote Killswitch that can bring the jet down by a flip of a switch. DOD claims it's been handled. Japan lost an F35, powered down mid flight. Japan whistled it was done purposely by unknown source. Around the same era, remote operated valves on ships were found with the same mysterious chips in it's sending components. There are legit sources for unclassified info on the web, I apologise for not providing source material right now. I'm in and out of this thread between chores at home. Imagine the chaos that can be brought if EVERYTHING made in China had a cheap 0.003 cent chip that can be switched off. This is what concerns me more than their carriers. They are not as good at carrier ops and they have fewer of them, but having a "STUXNET" style failure built into a bunch of mundane systems could be extremely beneficial. If you can force a US ship to make port, or force the US Navy to fly out spare parts, then you can either take ships completely off the table, or make our ships more predictable. And you don't even necessarily want to use an obvious kill switch, the deniability means you can use such techniques for years during peace time, and wait to use the information collected during a hot war, ideally without ever revealing the vulnerability itself. |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 1:32:26 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It doesn't need to be. You are thinking like an American, which is a problem most American's have. China isn't planning on attacking the CONUS, this is for their patch of the World. China's goal is not to destroy the US, that wouldn't benefit their economy, they just want the US to GTFO out of E.Asia. PRC doesn't have to deal with all the BS the US and other Countries do. Let's test an ASAT, okay, etc, etc. Meanwhile Countries loose their shit if their big brother protector wants to make a port call with a nuc powered ship or, god forbid, a ship with nucs on board. China just doesn't GAF. Meanwhile, everyone is going on about climate change. Remember when Japan spent all that money to buy/build that ABM ground based Ageis thing... They scrapped it because of public concern over the booster falling into populated areas. Falling booster vs. nuc, the falling booster is more of a concern. People's priorities are all fucked up. PRC doesn't answer to the public or pretty much the World for that matter. Ha... Because it is not nuclear powered it has less room for aviation fuel and ordinance. From what I've read the current generation of Chinese carrier based fighters also are not optimized for the new carrier launching system and must take off with less than a full load of ordinance. All in all it does not have the same combat capabilities as an American Carrier. |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 1:43:31 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who sold, gave or left the catapult schematics unencrypted? There have been documentaries on how the work. Not like it’s a massive secret anymore |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 1:47:10 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ha... Because it is not nuclear powered it has less room for aviation fuel and ordinance. From what I've read the current generation of Chinese carrier based fighters also are not optimized for the new carrier launching system and must take off with less than a full load of ordinance. All in all it does not have the same combat capabilities as an American Carrier. My understanding is they have less range but more weaponry. China has killed all our spies so it’s not like we know anything for certain but generally China realizes they don’t match us 100%, they think there’s a pivot point 75%, 80%, 90% where that capability along with a higher capacity than ours will be enough to succeed. They’re trying to acquire just enough tech coupled with higher quantity to overwhelm our tech. Missiles is where they think they’re matching us in tech. |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 1:49:30 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shipbuilding and ship repair is an advantage for China which is why I’m so fixated on the S-500. Dies it actually work? If so China could prevent us from damaging those facilities. Why is the s500 so important? I figured if we hit their ports or ship yards it would be with low flying cruise missles probably submarine launched? The Russians were so ass backwards in Ukraine getting their fancy vls aa vehicles shot up by atgm teams we didn't get to see a combloc aa umbrella properly set up but I'd assume it would be pretty decent if used correctly. I've read a large part of their budget and best personal go towards that and i would assume it's similar for the Chinese. |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 1:51:53 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ha... Because it is not nuclear powered it has less room for aviation fuel and ordinance. From what I've read the current generation of Chinese carrier based fighters also are not optimized for the new carrier launching system and must take off with less than a full load of ordinance. All in all it does not have the same combat capabilities as an American Carrier. F-18s I’m assuming you’re referring to  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 1:53:36 PM EDT
[#31]
 
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Posted: 6/17/2022 1:58:11 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why is the s500 so important? I figured if we hit their ports or ship yards it would be with low flying cruise missles probably submarine launched? The Russians were so ass backwards in Ukraine getting their fancy vls aa vehicles shot up by atgm teams we didn't get to see a combloc aa umbrella properly set up but I'd assume it would be pretty decent if used correctly. I've read a large part of their budget and best personal go towards that and i would assume it's similar for the Chinese. According to the Russians {which of course means Jack shit} they claim the S-500 can knock out all our current missiles, aircraft and low orbiting satellites - this one the Russian released data doesn’t seem to support for space related ops so it’s not T-72, T-90 or Ukraine comparable. I’ve been hoping they put one in Crimea so we can get info on it. GD scoffs and given SU57, Russia aircraft carrier etc I understand their skepticism but the S-500 Russia seems to have gone all in on judging from political and economic aspects. It was on Putin’s top 3 priorities. Could be dogshit or maybe it works. No clue. DOD, Congress and our Allie’s don’t have any solid info. |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 2:03:03 PM EDT
[#33]
 China launches the Fujian, the PLA Navy’s 3rd aircraft carrier  Chinese Navy just launched its biggest aircraft carrier ever |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 2:04:47 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryBinkov gets some stuff right but sometimes he’s way off |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 2:09:42 PM EDT
[#35]
What's the take on China's ability to operate carriers given their lack of institutional knowledge so to speak developed from actual experience at carrier operations. Just can't help at wondering how good they will be right off the bat with all the different divisions a carrier has and how a lot of their operation has been instilled in several generations of sailors and aviators in the US Navy and to a similar extent in the UK Navy or the Japanese JMSDF which also have a history of combat on the high seas.
I see the US (and the UK Navy) as having experience in surface combat and fleet operations that results in tactics and concepts that are passed on institutionally. Just because they have the ships, will they really be effective in the near term or do they have a lot of learning to do? What has China done militarily with any combat at sea in modern history. |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 2:10:05 PM EDT
[#36]
At least this time they copied a good design instead of trying to retrofit Russians crap carriers.
Looks to have a greater deck space than the Ford. |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 2:14:02 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's the take on China's ability to operate carriers given their lack of institutional knowledge so to speak developed from actual experience at carrier operations. Just can't help at wondering how good they will be right off the bat with all the different divisions a carrier has and how a lot of their operation has been instilled in several generations of sailors and aviators in the US Navy and to a similar extent in the UK Navy or the Japanese JMSDF which also have a history of combat on the high seas. I see the US (and the UK Navy) as having experience in surface combat and fleet operations that results in tactics and concepts that are passed on institutionally. Just because they have the ships, will they really be effective in the near term or do they have a lot of learning to do? What has China done militarily with any combat at sea in modern history. My guess is they provoke a war with Vietnam then India to test bed their shit and gain some confidence. |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 2:18:32 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My guess is they provoke a war with Vietnam then India to test bed their shit and gain some confidence. I wonder how that would prep them for a battle with a equivalent or greater peer/adversary? |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 2:20:54 PM EDT
[#39]
I didn't realize how important "pride" month was for China.
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Posted: 6/17/2022 2:25:14 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wonder how that would prep them for a battle with a equivalent or greater peer/adversary? Crawl, walk, run |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 2:28:11 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's the take on China's ability to operate carriers given their lack of institutional knowledge so to speak developed from actual experience at carrier operations. Just can't help at wondering how good they will be right off the bat with all the different divisions a carrier has and how a lot of their operation has been instilled in several generations of sailors and aviators in the US Navy and to a similar extent in the UK Navy or the Japanese JMSDF which also have a history of combat on the high seas. I see the US (and the UK Navy) as having experience in surface combat and fleet operations that results in tactics and concepts that are passed on institutionally. Just because they have the ships, will they really be effective in the near term or do they have a lot of learning to do? What has China done militarily with any combat at sea in modern history. How recent has US UK and Japans been involved in full scale naval combat? Maybe the british against argentina in falklands was the last one |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 2:28:36 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wonder how that would prep them for a battle with a equivalent or greater peer/adversary?  It's a Crawl, Walk, and then Run to the Top |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 2:38:41 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The war in Ukraine is being won by artillery, not 5th gen fighters, so look for a lot more articles like this talking about China's advanced technology. Defense contractors need to shift focus on to something that will justify more .gov money. |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 2:42:23 PM EDT
[#44]
I wonder how often it has to refuel.
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Posted: 6/17/2022 2:45:36 PM EDT
[#45]
They named it Fujian. That's a province closest to Taiwan.
 
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Posted: 6/17/2022 2:45:54 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is what concerns me more than their carriers. They are not as good at carrier ops and they have fewer of them, but having a "STUXNET" style failure built into a bunch of mundane systems could be extremely beneficial. If you can force a US ship to make port, or force the US Navy to fly out spare parts, then you can either take ships completely off the table, or make our ships more predictable. And you don't even necessarily want to use an obvious kill switch, the deniability means you can use such techniques for years during peace time, and wait to use the information collected during a hot war, ideally without ever revealing the vulnerability itself. Kind of reminds me of the Star Trek TNG episode when Picard is a Borg. The crew are trying to figure out how to defeat the Borg because they can adapt so rapidly and Picard, fighting the influence of the Borg, tells the Enterprise crew "sleep"- it was a backdoor that they forgot to lock and the crew of the Enterprise was able to put the Borg to sleep and thus gain the upper hand on them. What happens when your watermakers shut down, or a cooling pump, or some other system that's not directly tied to the defense industry? Are crew members allowed to bring their personal devices on board the ships? It wouldn't be the first time we've had spies and saboteurs aboard our vessels. |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 2:56:13 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How recent has US UK and Japans been involved in full scale naval combat? Maybe the british against argentina in falklands was the last one I get it, but my point was a lot of our leaders are taught the history of battle through the military training institutions. We made the transition from concept to fighting and learned a lot of lessons in World War II. We then went on to Korea, Vietnam Gulf War 1 and 2. Those carrier operations are built off of the development of the carrier prior to WWII and its heavy use in that war and most conflicts since. In between wars those ships have still deployed and trained to fight a peer adversary in the cold war. All the while that well orchestrated ballet we see go on the most dangerous working space on the earth has the benefit of years of practice, execution and refinement. I get that they can crawl, walk, run. But how do they really make up for several generations of experience that Navies with carriers like the US and even the French while the UK and Japan are seriously wanting back in to some type of carrier capability. The UK and Japan have previous experience with carriers and have learned lessons from using them. |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 3:03:30 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I get it, but my point was a lot of our leaders are taught the history of battle through the military training institutions. We made the transition from concept to fighting and learned a lot of lessons in World War II. We then went on to Korea, Vietnam Gulf War 1 and 2. Those carrier operations are built off of the development of the carrier prior to WWII and its heavy use in that war and most conflicts since. In between wars those ships have still deployed and trained to fight a peer adversary in the cold war. All the while that well orchestrated ballet we see go on the most dangerous working space on the earth has the benefit of years of practice, execution and refinement. I get that they can crawl, walk, run. But how do they really make up for several generations of experience that Navies with carriers like the US and even the French while the UK and Japan are seriously wanting back in to some type of carrier capability. The UK and Japan have previous experience with carriers and have learned lessons from using them. This goes to their 2060 model but they honestly won’t wait 40 years. They know it would take 4 decades to garner that level of experience. But their strategy from what I can tell is a mix of “our missiles are the shit” + more numbers; aircraft, personnel, ships + good enough. That’s where the whole can’t match USA 100% on its advantages but between asymmetrical - cyber, space and “good enough” they can paint the USA into a corner that a Joe Biden type can do a Pacific version of the Afghanistan withdrawal. Both Russia and China incorporate a strategy of trying to put pressure or misinformation on the civilian public of their opponents in hopes that translates to political weakness of resolve. Whether these strategies will or can work remains to be seen. But important circles in the PLA seem to believe in it. |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 3:13:29 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not necessarily all of it, Europe has been selling a lot of shit to China's navy https://amp.dw.com/en/german-engine-technology-found-in-chinese-warships-report/a-59740301 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Made in China Not necessarily all of it, Europe has been selling a lot of shit to China's navy https://amp.dw.com/en/german-engine-technology-found-in-chinese-warships-report/a-59740301 The Euros have a much different take on economics with the Chinese and much different agreements than we do. Ask Siemens. |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 3:19:32 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some here think that the invasion of Ukraine and thousands of murders isn't any of our business, and supporting Ukraine is a waste of taxpayers money. They probably say the same thing about Taiwan. Maybe this will wake some of them up. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They are building them so they have airpower on the backside of Taiwain far out in the ocean out of range of anti-ship missiles. Some here think that the invasion of Ukraine and thousands of murders isn't any of our business, and supporting Ukraine is a waste of taxpayers money. They probably say the same thing about Taiwan. Maybe this will wake some of them up. Probably not. |
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