Clinton involved?  Had to ask.

I fly a lot on flight simulator and have learned a lot. I'd like to pursue getting a pilot's license and have thought about it many times. But then I think, hey I don't want to kill myself and my family.  I'm just not sure it is worth it as a hobbyist even though I really want to do it. It is stories like these that make me reconsider.

Don't do stupid stuff.  I flew in the Rockies plenty...just never at night.  Or bad weather.

Yeah, that was kind of wild. It looked like someone dropped a small plane from a crane onto a car. It wasn't what you expect from a "plane crash".

Max operating Altitude       17,500 ft (5,334 m)

Source

Does not need to be turbo'ed to have supplemental oxygen.

Did not know that.  Thank you.

1)  A turbo'ed  engine is a way to allow the engine to make normal power when oxygen levels are low at altitude.

2)  Cabin pressurization allows increased oxygen levels at higher flying altitudes.   I do not know how that is done.

3)  Supplemental oxygen, using a tank and nasal cannulas, are how I dealt with flying high to avoid hypoxia.

A chute wont save you from CFIT . Mountains can kill you to death.

Makepeace was the owner of Lind Plumbing.

Lind Plumbing owns a SR22

The tailnumber for that aircraft is the one I provided.

I suppose he could have rented the SR22 that crashed from somewhere else.

Here is a list of the tailnumbers of all the SR22's registered in his county and the county that Ft. Collins is in.

218PM
234PD
5907

I know how all of the above work.  I was under the impression that O2 was only available as an option on the Turbo models.

Yup.  Controlled flight into terrain if no distress or urgent call to ATC.
Sounds like another graduate of the John Kennedy Jr. flight academy.

Thanks.  This crash just showed up on the FAA site and listed N462SR plus this:

"AIRCRAFT CRASHED UNDER UNKNOWN CIRCUMSTANCES, THE 4 PERSONS ON BOARD WERE FATALLY INJURED, SUBJECT OF AN ALERT NOTICE, WRECKAGE LOCATED 15 MILES FROM GLENWOOD SPRINGS, CO"

Source

They list the time as 210Z which is 810 PM local (MDT)

I don't know about friday evening but I drove through on Thursday evening and there were TERRIBLE rain storms in the that area.  Heavy downpours that I had to pull over for once.

That I do not know.  As I noted earlier, going west over the Rockies I would be around 16,500 feet using a small oxygen tank.  RV-6A...not a Cirrus.

So anymore news?

Did he just fly it right into the mountain?

That's why I am glad the land is flat down here.

There is a huge difference between flying a Citation Sovereign and a Cirrus in these areas. Thing is, I am prohibited by my company from taking off or landing a jet at some of these mountainous airports at night, and for good reason. By all means go fly, but use a little common sense and a bit of prudence!

Chute deployment PLUS mountains can kill you as well:

Some years ago, I reviewed a case - that we ultimately did not take - where a SR20 went down in the mountains along the CO/WY border. It appears that the initial ground impact set off the CAPS (the chute). The winds at ground level, gusting up to 30kts, dragged the wreckage "over rough, uneven terrain, across several gullies and ravines, over several barbed wire fences, and across highway 430, into the state of Wyoming. Portions of the elevator, rudder, and horizontal stabilizer were located within the debris path. An 8.5-foot section of the aft fuselage and portions of the empennage came to rest 1.55 miles north northwest of the initial impact point."

NTSB Linky

if that pilot would have deployed the CAPS instead of letting the ground do it, they probably would have made it.

I know this much...If I ever own a Cirrus I would not even think twice about using the CAPS.

He must have skipped that option. RIP kids

Seemed like ATC fucked that situation up.

Single engine night flights are great if you have had the proper instruction and possibly a Instrument Rating. A quick consultation of the FAA Registry shows that the pilot named was NOT Instrument rated. A big part of getting my Instrument Rating was flight planning. Considering all the elements of the flight like route, terrain altitude, weather conditions and aircraft performance might lead a guy to reconsider making it.

There is a lot of extra help when on a IFR flight plan. At the very least, Flight Following. 

ATC crashed that plane

I don't understand why its 'news' at all?

How many multi fatal auto accidents happened that day that didn't make the national news?
Why is this accident any different?
- it happened in the mountains?
- it happened at night?
- the kids were twins?

Quite patient? They made her do everything but an Immelman to accommodate "commercial traffic" that was overtaking her, changing runways multiple times and more

Regardless of ATC, nobody but the pilot crashed that plane.


"Unable" is a seldom used term by non professional pilots, but is often warranted.

She should have been more assertive, and at a minimum maintained control of the airplane. Don't drop the plane to fly the radios.

In that case, the NTSB agrees with you.

In many cases, I'd agree. The CAPS/BRS incident that gives me serious pause, however, is the 2010 Boulder SR20/Towplane+Glider midair. The collision set off the CAPS and the SR20 burned under the chute all the way down. The two aboard jumped at 500-750 AGL to escape the fire.

ETA: Link

SR22 chutes have killed many more people than they have saved

That is almost ALWAYS the case.  This is a proven little airplane.

I hate to say it but I hope so.  Maybe they wouldn't have know what happened.

I've had that happen in a Citabria where there wansn't even mountains, it was in Va. Beach. Funky wind from the ocean I suppose.   It's funny we had an idiot USMC Major forget to put his gear down once so they instituted a new protocol, and the controllers would always ask, "Zero Seven Echo, is your gear down"  To which I always replied "Down and Welded Ma'am."

The crash vid kind of looked like a failed Immelman, imho.

maybe airspeed was too high before contact to deploy chute

I totally agree.

You, and every other pilot of a fixed gear aircraft.


Army pilots all thought that it was the first time such a reply was ever spoken over a radio when they used it.

Aviate. Navigate. Communicate.

In that order.

FWIW, an instructor gave me a piece of wisdom for single engine aircraft operations regarding IFR conditions, night flying, and mountainous terrain:  pick one, and only one.

Source that please.

I'm thinking Dentist.

LOL. Even if the tower could say some magical words over the radio to make a pilot lose control of their aircraft, the pilot could always reach up and turn the radio off. Aviate, navigate, communicate. In that order. If you cannot do as they ask then you say so but you never stop flying the plane. The worst that should happen is an airborne deviation gets filed. You don't enter a fucking flat spin and park it on top of a car because you got confused by tower instructions.

Nope.

Down and welded....lol..... That's awesome.

Witnesses saw the airplane at low altitude when it suddenly turned to the left and began
descending. A security camera video image showed that the airplane was
spinning to the left and was about 45 degrees nose down in a wings level
attitude when it impacted an unoccupied automobile in a hardware store
parking lot about one-half mile north of runway 35. The video image also
showed the airplane's airframe parachute rocket motor deployed at the
moment of impact, however the parachute remained stowed in the empennage
and did not deploy.


NTSB

To an extent they did, but given that the PIC always has the option to declare an emergency.

For example, after the first few attempts to where she couldn't get her approach correct she should have done 1-2 things being as it were VFR over the field.

1. just divert to the nearest GA airport and live to fly another day.
2. Declare an emergency due to low fuel (just make up some shit about how you didn't trust the fuel analyzer because the guage was acting wonky) now the airport is all to yourself.

I agree. Unfortunately, the ATC did not make her job any easier. But she is in command. It's her job to get that plane on the ground.

I think the real question that needs to be asked is what was she doing in a sr22 fucking around in a Class B airspace?

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.......

Probably means pilots fly in conditions they normally wouldn't because they think they have a giant safety factor with the chute.

My dad was a corporate pilot for many years, and I often got to fly with him, especially if there were no passengers. I remember flying into Hobby with him and getting diverted from one runway to another (they were parallel) mid approach. He thought it was the greatest thing ever! Congested air space and busy airports aren't good places for low time pilots to tool around in their little Cessnas. 

I finally got the METAR (weather) info to come up.  The closest to Glenwood Springs is Aspen 27 nm to the southeast.  Around 200Z (800 PM MDT local) there are broken clouds at 8000 feet and overcast at 10,000 feet.

I admit that I am a weather wuss.   First I would not fly across the Rockies at night unless it was a life or death situation. Then with overcast conditions I would be stupid beyond even bad stupid to fly.  This does not prove that it was overcast at the crash site.

1.  Aspen

SP 16/09/2017 04:04-> SPECI KASE 160404Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM -RA FEW023 BKN029 OVC070
          08/05 A3014 RMK AO2 P0001 T00830050=

SA 16/09/2017 03:53-> METAR KASE 160353Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM -RA BKN023 BKN055 OVC070
          08/06 A3015 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT N RAB25 TSE12 SLP118 P0000 T00830056=

SP 16/09/2017 03:33-> SPECI KASE 160333Z AUTO VRB04KT 10SM -RA OVC024 09/05 A3015
          RMK AO2 RAB25 TSE12 P0000 T00890050=

SP 16/09/2017 03:12-> SPECI KASE 160312Z AUTO 32008KT 10SM VCTS OVC025 09/05 A3014
          RMK AO2 LTG DSNT W TSE12 T00890050=

SP 16/09/2017 03:01-> SPECI KASE 160301Z AUTO 33009KT 10SM BKN023 BKN085 09/05
          A3014 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT W T00940050=

SA 16/09/2017 02:53-> METAR KASE 160253Z AUTO 34006KT 10SM SCT023 BKN033 BKN085
          09/05 A3014 RMK AO2 RAB0159E11 SLP121 P0000 60000 T00940050 53040=

SA 16/09/2017 01:53-> METAR KASE 160153Z AUTO 34013KT 10SM FEW042 BKN080 OVC100
          12/05 A3009 RMK AO2 PK WND 20028/0108 WSHFT 0101
          LTG DSNT NE RAB05E34 SLP106 P0000 T01170050=

SP 16/09/2017 01:21-> SPECI KASE 160121Z 20007KT 10SM -RA FEW016 SCT070 BKN085
          12/06 A3006 RMK AO2 PK WND 20028/0108 WSHFT 0101    RAB05 P0000 T01170056=

SA 16/09/2017 00:53-> METAR KASE 160053Z 25006KT 10SM BKN085 OVC110 17/M01 A3001
          RMK AO2 LTG DSNT NW SLP060 T01721006=

SA 15/09/2017 23:53-> METAR KASE 152353Z 22006KT 10SM BKN090 BKN110 19/M01 A3000
          RMK AO2 SLP056 T01891006 10206 20172 55002=

SA 15/09/2017 22:53-> METAR KASE 152253Z 20012G16KT 160V220 10SM OVC090 19/M02
          A2999 RMK AO2 SLP050 T01941017=

SA 15/09/2017 21:53-> METAR KASE 152153Z 22008G15KT 10SM SCT095 21/M02 A2999 RMK
          AO2 SLP046 T02061022=

SA 15/09/2017 20:53-> METAR KASE 152053Z 26007KT 10SM BKN090 19/M03 A3000 RMK AO2
          SLP053 T01891028 56008=

SA 15/09/2017 19:53-> METAR KASE 151953Z VRB04KT 10SM BKN090 19/M04 A3001 RMK AO2
          SLP052 T01891039=

SA 15/09/2017 18:53->METAR KASE 151853Z 17010G17KT 10SM CLR 18/M03 A3002 RMK AO2
          SLP056 T01831033=

SA 15/09/2017 17:53-> METAR KASE 151753Z 23008G14KT 190V250 10SM CLR 18/M03 A3003
          RMK AO2 SLP063 T01781033 10178 20044 56005=

SA 15/09/2017 16:53-> METAR KASE 151653Z 16011KT 10SM CLR 16/M04 A3004 RMK AO2
          SLP071 T01611044=




2.  At Rifle (KRIL) 19 miles to the west of Glenwood Springs we have this METAR.  Overcast at 9500 feet.

SA 16/09/2017 01:53-> METAR KRIL 160153Z AUTO 30005KT 10SM BKN075 OVC095 12/08
          A3004 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT S RAE48 TSE05 SLP139 P0002
          T01220083=

SP 16/09/2017 01:11-> SPECI KRIL 160111Z AUTO 28016G22KT 10SM -RA SCT065 OVC080
          12/09 A3002 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT N-SE TSE05 PRESRR    P0002 T01170089=

SA 16/09/2017 00:53-> METAR KRIL 160053Z AUTO 27023G36KT 10SM -TSRA BKN070 OVC080
13/09 A2999 RMK AO2 PK WND 26036/0050 LTG DSNT   NE-SE RAB25 TSB34 SLP119 P0002 T01280094=

SP 16/09/2017 00:35-> SPECI KRIL 160035Z AUTO 29016G26KT 10SM TSRA BKN070 BKN085   OVC110 14/08 A2997 RMK AO2 PK WND 33032/0000 LTG   DSNT ALQDS RAB25 TSB34 P0001 T01390078=

SA 15/09/2017 23:53-> METAR KRIL 152353Z AUTO 33020G30KT 10SM VCTS BKN095 BKN110  16/07 A2994 RMK AO2 PK WND 33038/2339 WSHFT 2309   LTG DSNT NE AND SW AND W SLP095 T01560067 10233  20156 53016=

SP 15/09/2017 23:29-> SPECI KRIL 152329Z AUTO 32026G37KT 10SM BKN090 OVC110 17/07
          A2992 RMK AO2 PK WND 32037/2326 WSHFT 2309 LTG   DSNT NW PRESRR T01670067=

SA 15/09/2017 22:53-> METAR KRIL 152253Z AUTO 27018G22KT 10SM SCT100 BKN120 22/05
          A2988 RMK AO2 SLP065 T02220050=

SA 15/09/2017 21:53-> METAR KRIL 152153Z AUTO VRB05G16KT 10SM BKN085 OVC110 23/04
          A2988 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT N SLP063 T02280039=

SA 15/09/2017 20:53-> METAR KRIL 152053Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM OVC090 22/01 A2988 RMK
          AO2 SLP065 T02220011 56017=

SA 15/09/2017 19:53-> METAR KRIL 151953Z AUTO 29015KT 10SM OVC090 22/02 A2990 RMK
          AO2 SLP071 T02220017=

SA 15/09/2017 18:53-> METAR KRIL 151853Z AUTO 27010KT 10SM SCT090 21/07 A2992 RMK
          AO2 SLP078 T02060072=

SA 15/09/2017 17:53-> METAR KRIL 151753Z AUTO VRB03KT 10SM CLR 19/08 A2994 RMK
          AO2 SLP087 T01890083 10189 20100 58011=

SA 15/09/2017 16:53-> METAR KRIL 151653Z AUTO 30008KT 10SM CLR 17/09 A2996 RMK
          AO2 SLP099 T01670094=

SA 15/09/2017 15:53-> METAR KRIL 151553Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM FEW120 14/10 A2998 RMK
          AO2 SLP110 T01440100=



3.   At Eagle (KEGE), 20 NM to the northeast we have this.  Overcast at 11,000 feet

SA 16/09/2017 01:56-> METAR KEGE 160156Z AUTO 32012G23KT 10SM BKN055 BKN085 OVC110
          13/03 A3006 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT N AND SE PRESRR SLP155
          T01330033 $=

So it is looking like that area was overcast around 11,000 feet at that time.


4.   Grand Junction is 61 NM west southwest.  Overcast at 9000 feet.

SA 16/09/2017 01:53-> METAR KGJT 160153Z 33005KT 10SM BKN070 OVC090 15/09 A2999
          RMK AO2 RAB28E38 SLP116 P0000 T01500089=

5.   At Moab about the time they would have arrive there:.   Overcast

SA 16/09/2017 03:53->
METAR KCNY 160353Z AUTO 17005KT 10SM OVC100 13/12 A3001 RMK
          AO2 SLP130 T01280117=

SA 16/09/2017 02:53->

METAR KCNY 160253Z AUTO 27003KT 10SM FEW060 OVC100 13/12
          A3000 RMK AO2 RAE46 SLP129 P0003 60009 T01280117
          52017=

SA 16/09/2017 01:53->

METAR KCNY 160153Z AUTO 24005KT 6SM -RA BR SCT047 OVC070
          13/12 A2999 RMK AO2 SLP132 P0005 T01280117=

SA 16/09/2017 00:53->

METAR KCNY 160053Z AUTO 35010KT 10SM -RA SCT080 OVC095 13/11
          A2995 RMK AO2 SLP121 P0001 T01280111=

SA 15/09/2017 23:53->

METAR KCNY 152353Z AUTO 26009KT 10SM -RA FEW075 OVC100 14/09
          A2994 RMK AO2 PK WND 29028/2328 RAB29 SLP112 P0000
          60000 T01440094 10206 20144 53015=

SA 15/09/2017 22:53->

METAR KCNY 152253Z AUTO 30015KT 10SM FEW070 BKN100 15/11
          A2990 RMK AO2 PK WND 31032/2221 RAB12E32 SLP098
          P0000 T01500111=

SA 15/09/2017 21:53->

METAR KCNY 152153Z AUTO 31017KT 10SM SCT100 18/08 A2990 RMK
          AO2 PK WND 32029/2105 LTG DSNT SW-N SLP091 T01780083=

SA 15/09/2017 20:53->

METAR KCNY 152053Z AUTO 31020G27KT 10SM CLR 20/11 A2989 RMK
          AO2 PK WND 30027/2045 SLP086 T02000111 58002=

SA 15/09/2017 19:53->

METAR KCNY 151953Z AUTO 32015KT 10SM FEW110 20/12 A2990 RMK
          AO2 SLP088 T02000117=

SA 15/09/2017 18:53->

METAR KCNY 151853Z AUTO 31011KT 10SM OVC095 19/13 A2990 RMK
          AO2 SLP088 T01940128=

SA 15/09/2017 17:53-> METAR KCNY 151753Z AUTO 30006KT 10SM OVC100 19/13 A2990 RMK
          AO2 SLP088 T01940128 10206 20089 50001=

SA 15/09/2017 16:53-> METAR KCNY 151653Z AUTO 14003KT 10SM FEW090 SCT110 19/12
          A2990 RMK AO2 SLP087 T01890122=

SA 15/09/2017 15:53-> METAR KCNY 151553Z AUTO 11005KT 10SM OVC090 17/12 A2990 RMK
          AO2 SLP091 T01670122=

SA 15/09/2017 14:53-> METAR KCNY 151453Z AUTO 13006KT 10SM OVC100 14/13 A2990 RMK
          AO2 SLP090 T01440128 58001=

SA 15/09/2017 13:53-> METAR KCNY 151353Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 11/11 A2991 RMK
          AO2 SLP101 T01060106=

SP 15/09/2017 13:36-> SPECI KCNY 151336Z AUTO 00000KT 5SM BR CLR 09/09 A2990 RMK
          AO2 T00940094=

SP 15/09/2017 13:28-> SPECI KCNY 151328Z AUTO 25003KT 2 1/2SM BR CLR 09/09 A2990
          RMK AO2 T00890089=

SA 15/09/2017 12:53-> METAR KCNY 151253Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 09/09 A2990 RMK
          AO2 SLP101 T00940089=

SA 15/09/2017 11:53-> METAR KCNY 151153Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 11/11 A2990 RMK
          AO2 SLP098 70032 T01060106 10122 20100 55000=

SA 15/09/2017 10:53-> METAR KCNY 151053Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 10/10 A2990 RMK
          AO2 SLP098 T01000100=

SA 15/09/2017 09:53-> METAR KCNY 150953Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 11/11 A2990 RMK
          AO2 SLP089 T01110111=

SA 15/09/2017 08:53-> METAR KCNY 150853Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 11/11 A2990 RMK
          AO2 SLP092 T01110111 51002=

6.  From the Glenwood Springs newspaper.  "The four were flying from Fort Collins-Loveland Municipal Airport to Moab, Utah, when the plane went down at around 10 p.m. Weather was bad in the area Friday evening, with Glenwood High's football game delayed for an hour by lightning."

Source

If I have the right date/time, this was not a safe flight for a VFR pilot.

From an article:  "The air search was delayed this morning [Saturday, 16 September 2017]  because of low-hanging clouds."

Any reports of mountain obscuration?

See my post above yours.   The mountain they reported crashed near is about 11,100 feet.  At night you probably would not see it anyway.