I think it was a tragedy.  No social worker is going to that call alone or even initially.  No crisis team is walking up to that door on the initial call.  

Taser?  Maybe.  Bean bag rounds or 37/40mm impact rounds, maybe.  Reasoning with her, maybe but most likely not going to work.

My Grandmother had dementia and Alzheimer's.  She liven with my mom and dad on property that we both had houses on.  She had great insurance and my mom quit her job to take care of her as she refused to put her in a home.  She had home healthcare nurses assisting in therapy and care.  But no mistake, it was a quality of life issue, not a quantity of life issue and my mom knew this.

Nights were the worst.  Between sundowner syndrome and Grandma having no sense of time, her erratic schedule became my mothers.  My Grandma would take a nap and to her it was the next day.  She would have conversations with people who died decades ago.  She would also quickly become angry and lash out at people.   When trying to talk her down you could see the look of confusion on her face.   My wife and I had been married for about 2 years and my wife was one of the first people she forgot who they were and she quickly was a stranger to her.  But she would slap at things she did not like and grab hands or arms if she did not like someone adjusting her or helping address her hygiene.  She would go from nice to nasty in a few seconds.  

She fell one night when my mother had left her room to use the bathroom.  She broke two of her ribs and hurt her hip.  It ended up being what killed her.  She became bed ridden after that and the nurses tried to do physical therapy with her for her injuries, but she would not cooperate and was hurting for an injury she forgot she had.  Her appetite dropped off and she would eat very little  She continued to try to get out of bed and it was a serious risk for her to do that unsupervised as another fall could cause worse injury or be fatal.  To help keep her in the bed, my mom bought three black carpet runners at the suggestion of one of the nurses who had been a hospice nurse.  She put them on each side of the bed and at the foot of the bed.  My grandmother would not get out of the bed because she perceived the bed as being over a hole and she would be falling down the hole.  How do you communicate with someone in that state?  My grandmother died of pneumonia, largely due to the cracked ribs making her breathing rather shallow due to the pain of taking deep breaths and her inability to move off the bed.  I was there, with my mother and my wife as she was gasping for breath after she was put on her first morphine patch and the nurse said that the end was near.  I watched her pass away with a look of utter confusion that still bothers me today.   I also know that sometimes my grandmother was physically in the room, but was mentally somewhere else.  She was in her 20's talking to her brother that had died before my mother was even out of grade school.  

This wasn't a good shoot.  I don't know if it was a necessary shoot.  What I will say is that we can talk about a 75 year old woman who was holding two knives is what we are going to see.  Who knows what or where Nana thought she was or where she was at and what she was doing at the time.  There really is nothing that cop, a nurse or care giver may have been able to do at that moment in time.  She was at the mercy of a fatal disease that no one, not her, not the cop, not a medical professional can control or predict with any certainty.                

Yea? Tell how that would work out at a school shooting. Or if any violent offender was confronted, and the LE just left.

cure for dementia. Hand grammy a couple of knives and tell her to go talk to the nice man with the badge and loud voice.

yup

The kind of person I am?  Been my sigline since I have had my paid membership and predates you being her by at least a decade.

It's from a Kings of Leon song, "Pyro".  Here's the lyrics:

Single book of matches, gonna burn what's standing in the way
Roaring down the mountain, now they're calling on the fire brigade
Bury all the pictures, and tell the kids that I'm okay
If I'm forgotten, they'll remember me for today

[Chorus]
I, I won't ever be your cornerstone
I, I don't wanna be here holding on

[Verse 2]
All the black inside of me, is slowly seeping from the bone
Everything I cherish, is slowly dying or it's gone
Little shaken babies and drunkards seem to all agree
Once the show gets started it's bound to be a sight to see

[Chorus]
I, I won't ever be your cornerstone
I, I don't wanna be here holding on
I, I won't ever be your cornerstone
I

[Bridge]
Watch her roll, can you feel it?
Watch her roll, can you feel it?
Watch her roll, can you feel it?
Watch her roll, can you feel it?

[Outro]
I, I won't ever be your cornerstone
I, I don't wanna be here holding on (Watch her roll)
I (Can you feel it?)
I won't ever be your cornerstone
I (Watch her roll)

As for the meaning of the song?
Click To View Spoiler

Look up the term polish hostage.

Thank you for opening up an honest discussion on the subject. I agree with most of what you've said in the above comment. There probably wasn't anything anyone could have done in that moment. But a moment is just that, a moment. If the officer wasn't aggressive, the situation may have changed. He escalated immediately. It would have been a different scenario if the perp was a 20-50 year old male, but it wasn't. Officers as a whole need to change their way of thinking. Standard procedure does not apply in all situations.

That makes a bit more sense when viewed as a whole, but the lines you picked out of it doesn't bode well with me.

BTW, I've been here since '03. When I decided to pay for a membership is irrelevant.

Once you realize that 90% of people who become cops are low IQ yes men, high school bullies, steroid users and nerds who never got invited to a party you can see why they have so many issues. There are good ones but the bad ones far outnumber them. However fuck knife wielding psychos, once you’re rabid you need to be put down.

Not going to Monday quarterback this one. But one question could have avoided this whole ordeal. Asking the family is everyone out? If yes.. Back out and slow things down and surround the house and come up with a game plan to talk her out and disarm or talk her down.

Barking orders and rushing an MI is setting yourself up to fail.

Probably not killing an elderly person that needed help.

If not violent and no crime has occurred other than this. Sure. Explain what would happen if This officer had left, and adult children, grandchild(supposedly still in house), or some other 3rd party had been stabbed/sliced/attacked?

We have shoehorned LE into this.

Edit: fix link to gif

I don't think anyone is arguing that the officer should have left. The argument is that there was not sufficient cause for him to immediately use deadly force. He should go to prison.

You don’t use less lethal against a lethal threat when there’s no one else there to provide lethal cover. The reason is because cops have tried that and when the less lethal doesn’t work they get killed or severely injured.

You should probably stick to stuff you know about.

If it were a 20 year old male, I would agree with you. For a 75 year old woman, not at all. I sincerely hope you are not employed in law enforcement.

Everyone that is bashing the cop in this thread is a fucking moron.  

I've dealt with knife wielders.  she had two knives, with at least 10 inch blades, and she was wacko.  If the officer approached, he would be cut.  There is a good chance that he is going to be maimed, possibly killed, those are big ass knives.  

I've got a 75 year old mother in law that weighs less than 100 lbs soaking wet.  She is in the mid to later stages of dementia, and can get violent.   When she gets violent, and the adrenaline is flowing, she is a handful in and of herself... I would not want to deal with her if she has two knives.  

A deadly threat is a deadly threat, no matter if the optics look good to the uninitiated or not, so shut the fuck up unless you know what you are talking about.  I swear, fucking site gets bought and a whole new crop of assclowns get brought in.  

Would you shoot her twice from 10-15 feet away?

lol...you gonna get this locked with your derp.

Don't be a moron.

You are upset some old woman got shot. You’re not looking at the whole situation that two grown women who each out weighed her and the husband were scared to the point they climbed out a window, called and specifically asked for cops and left the baby in the other room. Cop sees a woman armed with two knives, doesn’t know hold old she is just that she’s tried to kill some people and isn’t following commands. 75, 100, 20, man, woman, black, white, policy is policy and everyone gets the same coverage. If grandma wants to live she can put the knife down. I haven’t met a crazy person yet that doesn’t know what a gun is. This was just a sweet old man with PTSD.

Lol you’re asking the wrong guy that question.

Using the people who originally called 911 as human shields against the knife lady?  Yes, that would be a way more interesting thread.

You are quite a fountain of such wisdom.

This

If one of my family members was at risk, yes.  I'm willing to take my own chances, but I'm not rolling the dice with their lives.

Nor do I expect a police officer to roll the dice with his.

Who the F are you to tell others what should be in their Sig lines? You’ve been here like a week.

He was four feet away, and the prosecutor said it was ok.

Attached File


Love all the new guys that insist that they’ve been here “for years”.

That makes me sick to my stomach every time it shows up.....

When I initially began reading your post, I wasn't very happy with where I thought you were headed. After reading it through to the end, I want to say Thank You. We need more elected officials that have your mindset. Keep up the good work.

I was always told the winner of a knife fight is the one that leaves in an ambulance instead of a bag.    She got what could be expected in that situation.    If you're going to wave knives at a cop expect to get shot at some point.  I wouldn't expect anyone to go hands on w/ someone like that.  Sucks for the family but if they didn't want her shot they should have dealt with it instead of calling the police.

To this day, that video still sends a chill down my spine.

Nonsense.  You have kitchen chairs and certainly the skills to dodge blades.  60 and 70 year olds with kitchen blades are a minor inconvenience at worst. We already know that a little knife fighting is something we all grew up doing in our teens.

Who the F are you to ask me who the F I am?

Do you support blatant protected murder of the elderly? Would your opinion be the same if it was your grandmother?

If so, I hear the Russian army is looking for conscripts.

Even if you drew your Hanzo sword at meemaw, she'd get cut and die if she charged anyways. Tazer with another deputy behind you with beams would be the only other viable option.

I do NOT support the like of you telling long time members in good standing that you dont like their Sig lines. You need to go do the snowflake thing at DU.

So the family, with no professional training, should have dealt with it instead of calling someone with professional training, and that would have prevented her from being shot? Read your own statement back to yourself, and pretend it was your mother or grandmother.

As well he should have. You did the right thing.

You mis quoted me.  WTF are you trying to pull?

lol....you might feel safer in Teams.  

Jeez...the ego's in this place are incredible.

See above. Answer the question.

3rd degree

Jay

Don't call for a man with a gun unless you are comfortable with him using it.
You have to ask, how many times do you want to face a crazy person with a knife knowing that at some point you will probably get stabbed?

@burkeva

Just let it go, its not worth losing your account to a troll.  Hopefully staff can look into the background of this 'newcomer' to find out which retread he is.

For a guy claiming to be here so once 2003 you dont seem to understand how to quote posts / copy posts/ respond to posts.

And when my Grandmother had it, we baby proofed the house. Kept dangerous things like knives and chemicals and prescription drugs away from wher she would have easy access to them.  Your move scooter.

Edit: Having someone in the house with Dementia is like have a crazy strong toddler.  You need to take appropriate risk mitigation.

I'm sure his local department is just like every other department across the U.S. and is hurting for people.

I'm sure they'd be damned glad to have someone with his capabilities.

I highly doubt anyone in this forum would support the officer if it was their own grandmother or mother. The only support for this shooting has been from current officers. I don't understand how nobody sees this as an issue.

BUT.....THEY WERE FOLLOWING ORDERS
BUT.....THAT IS HOW THEY ARE TRAINED

The same thing could be said about Nazi Germany

And you still can't, or won't answer the question. What if it was your mother or grandmother. Nut up or shut up.