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Posted: 2/18/2022 10:47:35 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I may vaguely remember that? It’s used absolutely never in the real world, that I’ve seen. You are an engineer and you do not know the notation for absolute value? Maybe they don't teach math down at UTex. God help us as a country. |
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Posted: 2/18/2022 10:49:06 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IOW, you don't know the answer. It's a retarded question. Fuck off. |
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Posted: 2/18/2022 10:49:23 PM EDT
[#3]
Something from my daughter's school experience.
Five students were given 15 apples. How many apples did every student receive? |
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Posted: 2/18/2022 10:51:14 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. By definition magnitude does not have direction. Anything with a negative sign is not written correctly, and the absolute value symbol is completely redundant. I re-worded what I was attempting to express, probably while you were typing that. My initial wording was a less than great way of explaining what I was attempting to communicate. [Reworded version: Magnitude is a representation of distance, which is found using absolute values. As a result, the answer should be |-10|.] While magnitude is represented as an absolute value, the number that is shown in the absolute value reflects a sort of directionality. e.g. In most CCSS based curricula, the progression for teaching the concept is introduced with number lines. E.g. The number seven units left of 0 is -7. -7 has a magnitude of |-7|. The number seven units to the right of 0 is 7. 7 has a magnitude of |7|. In the presented problem, the magnitude would be represented as |-10| because the problem is looking at a hole with a depth of 10 feet. Had the problem been referring to a 10 foot pile (i.e. stacked up on the ground), the magnitude would be represented as |10|. (My background is SPED, not math. If I was attempting to teach this it, I would probably be attempting to find a way to represent it as a visual. In the hypothetical, I would use the ground as a 0 reference, in order to build from the more concrete representations that are used before students are exposed to the more confusing problems). (There are some curricula that do look for written responses to magnitude problems to be written out further in order for the student to demonstrate understanding of the absolute value concept that they are representing-- e.g. |-10|=10. That is something that isn't really an option with the type of multiple choice options that were represented with this problem) |
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Posted: 2/18/2022 10:52:37 PM EDT
[#5]
What is our point of reference?
Where is the datum? Fuck that school. |
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Posted: 2/18/2022 10:53:17 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: |10| = |-10| = 10 Book is stupid, question is stupid, teacher is probably stupid. This what I thought. If three answers are identical except one then the only remaining answer must be the correct one. |
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Posted: 2/18/2022 10:54:33 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are an engineer and you do not know the notation for absolute value? Maybe they don't teach math down at UTex. God help us as a country. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I may vaguely remember that? It’s used absolutely never in the real world, that I’ve seen. You are an engineer and you do not know the notation for absolute value? Maybe they don't teach math down at UTex. God help us as a country. Tell me where that notation is used outside of academia in engineering. Especially with regard to civil engineering or construction of any kind, since we’re talking about digging holes here. |
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Posted: 2/18/2022 10:57:03 PM EDT
[#8]
is the hole on a treadmill?
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Posted: 2/18/2022 10:57:30 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Without a datum, the purest answer is C. A is acceptable. B and D are not acceptable answers. This |
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Posted: 2/18/2022 11:01:18 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tell me where that notation is used outside of academia in engineering. Especially with regard to civil engineering or construction of any kind, since we’re talking about digging holes here. |x| means:  |
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Posted: 2/18/2022 11:02:13 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Tell me where that notation is used outside of academia in engineering. Especially with regard to civil engineering or construction of any kind, since we’re talking about digging holes here. |x| means: https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/461/903/3a9.png Oh so you can’t. |
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Posted: 2/18/2022 11:03:46 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh so you can’t. Look bro, no offense, but not knowing what absolute value is is not something I would admit to anyone, especially if your job somehow requires at least a grammar school level understanding of math. |
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Posted: 2/18/2022 11:04:56 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Look bro, no offense, but not knowing what absolute value is is not something I would admit to anyone, especially if your job somehow requires at least a grammar school level understanding of math. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Oh so you can’t. Look bro, no offense, but not knowing what absolute value is is not something I would admit to anyone, especially if your job somehow requires at least a grammar school level understanding of math. Oh… So you can’t. |
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Posted: 2/18/2022 11:06:05 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh… So you can’t.  wish you a successful career man
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Posted: 2/18/2022 11:06:27 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh So you can't. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Oh so you can't. Look bro, no offense, but not knowing what absolute value is is not something I would admit to anyone, especially if your job somehow requires at least a grammar school level understanding of math. Oh So you can't. 
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Posted: 2/18/2022 11:09:40 PM EDT
[#16]
Number tells how big or how many, sign tells direction.
Question asked for magnitude, which is number only, so |10| is correct. Absolute value means how big is the number, without regard to sign. |
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Posted: 2/18/2022 11:09:55 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: wish you a successful career manQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Oh… So you can’t. wish you a successful career manThanks, I appreciate it. It’s going great. The condescension while still not being able to demonstrate why the notation matters or how it’s used in the real world aside from “lol bro” was great too. |
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Posted: 2/18/2022 11:10:57 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks, I appreciate it. It’s going great. The condescension while still not being able to demonstrate why it matters in the real world aside from “lol bro” was great too. Im sure you do man, you do you, real world and all that. |
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Posted: 2/18/2022 11:12:03 PM EDT
[#19]
C. Expresses 10 units only; direction from 0 irrlevant. Also note it is NOT stated or inferred the hole is at ground level. Juan could have dug a hole 3 ft. deep and then Doug added 10 more feet.
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Posted: 2/18/2022 11:14:21 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tell me where that notation is used outside of academia in engineering. Especially with regard to civil engineering or construction of any kind, since we’re talking about digging holes here. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I may vaguely remember that? It’s used absolutely never in the real world, that I’ve seen. You are an engineer and you do not know the notation for absolute value? Maybe they don't teach math down at UTex. God help us as a country. Tell me where that notation is used outside of academia in engineering. Especially with regard to civil engineering or construction of any kind, since we’re talking about digging holes here. extensively in computer science and software engineering. |
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Posted: 2/18/2022 11:15:23 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: extensively in computer science and software engineering. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I may vaguely remember that? It’s used absolutely never in the real world, that I’ve seen. You are an engineer and you do not know the notation for absolute value? Maybe they don't teach math down at UTex. God help us as a country. Tell me where that notation is used outside of academia in engineering. Especially with regard to civil engineering or construction of any kind, since we’re talking about digging holes here. extensively in computer science and software engineering. I included that caveat because I knew that was coming
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Posted: 2/18/2022 11:17:47 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I included that caveat because I knew that was coming Yeah I'm sorry for being a dick, but it's just ... surprising, that's all. Like if I were your buddy I'd give you a lot of shit about this. |
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Posted: 2/18/2022 11:28:47 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah I'm sorry for being a dick, but it's just ... surprising, that's all. Like if I were your buddy I'd give you a lot of shit about this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I included that caveat because I knew that was coming Yeah I'm sorry for being a dick, but it's just ... surprising, that's all. Like if I were your buddy I'd give you a lot of shit about this. |38.7|% of the reason I come here is to get into arguments. In my line of work it’s just not used. I’m 15+ years out of engineering school. Hell I don’t use 90% of what I learned getting my degree in my actual job. If I haven’t used or thought of it in 10+ years the likelihood of me retaining it approaches zero. |
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Posted: 2/18/2022 11:37:06 PM EDT
[#24]
Extra credit:
If it takes six men six hours to dig six holes, how long does it take one man to dig half a hole? |
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Posted: 2/18/2022 11:42:48 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Extra credit: If it takes six men six hours to dig six holes, how long does it take one man to dig half a hole? can't dig half of a hole
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Posted: 2/18/2022 11:46:13 PM EDT
[#26]
This shit right here is why I get a set of plans and there has to be 4 addendums answering 95 RFIs.
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Posted: 2/18/2022 11:46:41 PM EDT
[#27]
Am I the only one that thought of Dirk Diggler when they read Dirk dug a hole......
And it is l-10l, can be 10 positive or negative. Which a hole can be 10 or -10. |
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Posted: 2/19/2022 12:01:20 AM EDT
[#28]
You guys forget the first basic rule of school: The right answer is what was taught in the book/chapter. If it says absolutes have the lines and are never negative, then you answer C.
Similarly, if they teach common core math, you show your work with common core math or it's marked wrong even when the end answer is right. |
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Posted: 2/19/2022 12:04:41 AM EDT
[#29]
a negative hole collapses into a singularity. answer is |1|
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Posted: 2/19/2022 12:06:40 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Magnitude doesn't have direction, so A. Not confident that's what the teacher thinks is right. Correct answer. |
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Posted: 2/19/2022 12:12:08 AM EDT
[#31]
As the question is written and with no other knowledge than my own education, it's fucking retarded and makes no sense for a variety of reasons.
However, assuming the school is not completely fucked, given that A, C, and D are all equal to 10, I assume something was taught that would otherwise explain what they want. It is not by any means the "right" answer, but it certainly makes it possible to answer correctly. |
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Posted: 2/19/2022 1:06:02 AM EDT
[#32]
I can see a -10 as the answer. Perspective.
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Posted: 2/19/2022 1:09:51 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I may vaguely remember that? It's used absolutely never in the real world, that I've seen. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm an engineer and I've never seen "|X|" Seems fucky for no other purpose than being fucky. But I've been wrong before. Once. Eighth grade math, probably 6th grade in rural Missouri. I may vaguely remember that? It's used absolutely never in the real world, that I've seen. |
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Posted: 2/19/2022 1:25:21 AM EDT
[#34]
Magnitude does not require "direction", it's a scalar number.
Consider a number line, something a sixth grader recognizes. Dig a 10 foot deep hole. Put a number line divided in 1 foot segments in the hole aligned along its centerline. First, place zero at the opening of the hole at grade. The bottom of the hole is located at -10 feet on the number line. The depth is |-10|=10 feet. Put the zero on the number line at the bottom of the hole; the depth is |10| = 10 feet. Now put the zero 3 feet from the opening. The depth is |(3 - 0) - (0-7)| = |10| = 10 feet. 10 feet is a scalar value that is the magnitude of the depth in feet. The number line is not a unit vector, but there is only a tiny step needed to define a unit vector the same as the number line. |
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Posted: 2/19/2022 1:29:00 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t recall ever seeing that in school either Nor I. |
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Posted: 2/19/2022 1:38:53 AM EDT
[#36]
Pretty sure I remember this shit from 20+ years ago.
Has to be D. Absolute value of -10 is 10. Since the hole was dug 10ft below ground, I have to assume they want the magnitude of -10. Magnitude of any negative number is the absolute value of that number. Therefore, most likely answer is D. |
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Posted: 2/19/2022 1:42:02 AM EDT
[#37]
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Posted: 2/19/2022 1:50:57 AM EDT
[#38]
Just dig the damn hole 10 fucking feet deep!!! JFC how hard is it to measure 10 damn feet down a hole!!! Dirk, you’re fired!!!
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Posted: 2/19/2022 1:57:32 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just dig the damn hole 10 fucking feet deep!!! JFC how hard is it to measure 10 damn feet down a hole!!! Dirk, you're fired!!! I know of an instance where that was true; a university football player hired onto a construction crew for the summer. |
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Posted: 2/19/2022 1:57:47 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: How can you represent the magnitude of the hole's depth? This fucking language again. Who talks like this? Just say "What is the depth of the hole?" Don't re-state the question with lots of extra words. We don't do that in the real world. I don't use "represent" in sentences. |
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Posted: 2/19/2022 2:01:54 AM EDT
[#41]
The hole is 10 feet deep.
The bottom is -10' AGL.
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Posted: 2/19/2022 2:02:27 AM EDT
[#42]
10. There is no such thing as a negative distance.
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Posted: 2/19/2022 2:06:00 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dude. How are you an engineer that doesn't know the symbol for absolute value? Are you really an engineer? Like as in licensed engineer??? I think I recall things such that the answer is A but I'm wrong al the damn time and definitely not an engineer either Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm an engineer and I've never seen "|X|" Seems fucky for no other purpose than being fucky. But I've been wrong before. Once. Dude. How are you an engineer that doesn't know the symbol for absolute value? Are you really an engineer? Like as in licensed engineer??? I think I recall things such that the answer is A but I'm wrong al the damn time and definitely not an engineer either |
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Posted: 2/19/2022 2:10:48 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: can't dig half of a hole Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Extra credit: If it takes six men six hours to dig six holes, how long does it take one man to dig half a hole? can't dig half of a hole But what if you half ass dig a hole? Besides, I get projects half done and never finish them all the time. It so far has taken me |17| years to put the last piece of siding trim on the storage shed 
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Posted: 2/19/2022 2:12:27 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: is the hole on a treadmill?  |
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Posted: 2/19/2022 2:13:54 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 10. There is no such thing as a negative distance. Sure there is. Two steps forward, one step back is -1 step 
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Posted: 2/19/2022 2:16:26 AM EDT
[#47]
Rick and Marty Lagina say "D".
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Posted: 2/19/2022 2:25:00 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I answered B. Magnitude seems like a vector, value and direction It seems like A, C, D are the same value expressed in different ways. IIRC, a vector has magnitude and direction. But wouldn't the magnitude of a vector be represented like ||a|| rather than any of the poll options? |
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Posted: 2/19/2022 2:31:40 AM EDT
[#49]
Magnets.
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Posted: 2/19/2022 2:38:50 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. I've reviewed thousands of data sheets for every type of valve and instrument imaginable and the magic symbol for absolute value has been used on exactly zero of them. An absolute unit, like pressure, would be indicated as "psia" as opposed to something like psig for gauge pressure. ETA: okay, I read an write up on it and it jogged my memory from back in school. Not exactly the same thing as absolute pressure. |X| is literally never used in petrochemical or oil & gas engineering. I stand by my statement that all answers are wrong because they are unitless. Also A, C, and D are all the equal. I'd really like to hear the teacher's explanation for why one is correct. Lol. She won't have a clue. She downloaded the syllabus and "that's what the answer key says". |
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