Sls block 2 cargo isn't projected to exceed conservative BFR reusable estimates by more than 30pct additional mass to x orbit. That's a narrow margin for a single use specialty heav lift rocket that will certainly cost a helluva lot more. And bfr might beat Sls blk2 by capability as well as cost (and deployment time too).

Gross liftoff wt for Orion CSM assembly and LAS is 78,000lbs.
Injected mass will be 58,400lbs.
Source is NASA Orion quick facts pdf

What do you mean by a dual launch option with 2 falcon heavies?

Lander was 17T, CM+SM for earth orbit was 28T so the lifted mass was 49T, let's add a few for hardware and call it 55T.  This is in range of FH to LEO.  Launch a newly developed TLI stage separately and dock to the lunar stack in LEO for a TLI shot.  We have free return so no large return stage is required.  In fact, before Saturn V was proven, this was how NASA had envisioned the moon mission.  Once Saturn V actually worked, they went to a single shot method.

SpaceX has already said the FH could take Crew Dragon around the moon and had plans to do so but decided to not certify FH for human spaceflight and wait for BFR instead.

Technically it is capable.

It is NASA.

The folks that erased years of computer tapes with design data s they could recyle them on the Shuttle program.

Huge amounts of design and test data from Apollo have been erased.
Gone.
And the people that performed the work are slowly but surely dying in old age.

I know a guy that worked on the development of the bearings for the crawler to move the Saturn V.
All the data is gone.

The rollers in the bearings where around 12 inches in diameter and about 16 inches long.
He had one in his office at NRO.
A gigantic steel cylinder.

You needed a hand truck to move it around.

He has threatened to leave it when he retires.

They dont want to be integrating components in LEO.

Edit: with Orion EM-1

@webtaz99
It looks like NASA has been willing to trade a functioning heavy lift rocket for high specific impulse napkinwaffe.

Is that supposed to be sarcasm or actual stupid redneck bullshit?  Can't tell anymore.  Either way, epic post.  Epic sarcasm or epic ignorance.

Got it.  No sarcasm.  Just stupid bullshit.

Technically Falcon 9 had a payload already enroute to the moon.

RECALIBRATE UR DETECKTOR

They already have everything they need to get NASA there rn.We could literally do it now.

Well, until July at least that statement is correct.

Meanwhile, the Dragon crew capsule AND its launch vehicle are starting the process of refurbishment after a successful fully automated supply run to the ISS.

Elon Musk and his companies may not be perfect but they do deliver the goods,  faster than NASA and with more reusability.

When NASA gets the SLS system working,  say goodbye to those reusable shuttle program veteran engines.  They're going to fly one more time and then they'll be free for the taking if you happen to be good at fishing in 10,000 feet of water.

NASA is also, at times, retarded. The obsession with hydrogen is one of those times.

Within the atmosphere, using hydrogen is outright retarded. The low density requires huge tanks, which generate massive drag, which negates the imagined efficiency bonus.

In orbit hydrogen looks a bit better on paper, but the advantages are often still half imaginary. You may not suffer the drag penalty, but a larger tank still requires more tank mass. Hydrogen really has to be kept damn cold, so you need thicker/heavier thermal insulation. Hydrogen also loves to leak out of everything, which means you need thicker tanks, fancier tank liners and are more likely to encounter failures.

Methane is probably the most practical fuel all around, even though it lacks the sexy specs on paper.

While I understand what you are saying, no crew would mean no need for LAS. EM-1 is flying the LAS.

SpaceX has received some USAF funding to look at using the Raptor as an upper stage engine on FH.  No idea how far that has progressed, if at all.

Whats with the Nasa plans of only using Orion to go to the moon?

Can the Space X or the newer capsules from Blue orgin or the space plane from Sierra Nevada not go there with their craft as well?

You also left out that it is invisible, and its flame in air is nearly invisible.

I'm pretty sure this is sarcasm but it's hard to tell sometimes.

If it isn't

https://twitter.com/SciGuySpace/status/1106337152177180675

It looks like SLS wont fly now until basically 2022.

This project is a complete dumpster fire. The schedule is moving back faster than the passage of time at this point.

When the project was started in 2011 it was supposed to fly in 2016. Now in 2019 it'll probably fly in 2022.... 8 years and $20+ billion dollars to go from T-5 years to T-3 years.

Most people already have that conclusion.

NASA got to the moon. That's awesome. But they live with that legacy like a 40yr old clinging to his high school glory days still living at his parents house. Meanwhile SpaceX is actually doing shit that is quite impressive without the political bullshit and wasted taxpayer dollars (I realize SpaceX is funded substantially by tax payers, but that money is spent on space rather than political bullshit).

“OH AL!!!”

Attached File

When they will have it ready on the pad, find something "wrong" with it, and delay the launch for a few months until they "fix" it.

Meaning, give us more money "to troubleshoot the issue".

They might even find more problems when they put it back on the launch pad.

If our endeavors in space aren't generating a yearly body-count in the hundreds we're just playing at it.

Including there was a hydrogen fire during one launch attempt, that would've cooked a shuttle crew if they'd attempted to get to the escape baskets. They elected to stay in the shuttle instead, and after that launch, hydrogen-fire-detectors were installed.

Kharn

That's gonna ruffle some feathers.

NASA is crushing SpaceX in diversity.

Diversity seems to be getting crushed by real world results.

"ODEO Vision:

NASA achieves the greatest possible mission success as a result of being a model agency for Diversity & Inclusion and Equal Opportunity.

ODEO Mission:

ODEO provides leadership for diversity, inclusion, and equal opportunity, through evidence-based and innovative policies and practices, enabling NASA to succeed by continually accessing and empowering the most talented and fully-contributing human beings in the universe.

ODEO Goals:

In supporting mission success, we partner with our Center EO Offices, Diversity Managers, key Offices across the Agency, and external stakeholders to achieve the following goals:

Goal 1. Advance NASA's efforts to be a model Agency for equal employment opportunity (EEO), including fostering NASA’s workforce diversity, eliminating EEO barriers and deficiencies, and addressing EEO concerns.

Goal 2. Engage the Agency in proactive equal opportunity (EO) and diversity-inclusion initiatives and programs to enhance workplace productivity and efficiency.

Goal 3. Advance EO in NASA-funded science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM) and related programs in contributing to the Agency's STEM pipeline development.

NASA ODEO provides the following general services:

Leadership on workplace policies and practices to promote fairness and equitableness, and to mitigate risk of employee disengagement and complaints.

Leadership on workplace policies and practices to support diversity and inclusion – helping organizations engage, empower, and retain the best talent to optimize mission success.

Customized data and analytics to assess the health of organizational Equal Opportunity and D&I.

Partner with stakeholders to promote external civil rights compliance – specifically, anti-discrimination in STEM institutions (e.g., universities and other research organizations) that receive Federally-assistance from NASA."

Beat THAT SpaceX!

ETA: Check out these inspiring motivational pictures from NASA websites:

But wait! There's more!



"Diversity & Inclusion

NASA addresses issue of Limited English Proficiency (LEP) as required under Executive Order 13166, in part through translations of key strategic documents (below). The Agency has an LEP Plan for language assistance, including both translation and interpretation."

"At NASA, we define diversity as the similarities and differences in the individual and organizational characteristics that shape our workplace. Inclusion is the means by which we optimize the benefits to mission inherent in our diversity, for example, the policies, procedures, and practices that an organization puts in place to create more inclusive work environments.

By fostering an atmosphere of inclusion and respect for all, we can continue to value and appreciate the strengths afforded by both the commonalities and differences between us, not only our inherent differences but also in the styles, ideas, and organizational contributions of each person. This in turn will drive innovation, creativity and employee engagement."

"Special Emphasis Programs



NASA has designated seven special emphasis programs: the African American Program, Hispanic Employment Program, Federal Women’s Program, Asian American/Pacific Islander Program, American Indian/Alaska Native Program, Lesbian, Gay, Bi-sexual, Transgender and Queer, and Individuals with Disabilities Program."



Incredibly, there's even more!

Update on NASA’s Cooperation with Non-Traditional Partners

"Cooperation with Muslim Majority Nations

? The Administration is seeking to enhance S&T cooperation with
Muslim majority nations (Cairo speech, June 2009)
– Science Envoy program
– Centers of scientific excellence

? NASA’s ongoing and planned activities support this initiative

? NASA currently has limited cooperation with about half of the
Muslim majority nations

In effort to identify potential new cooperation in the last 4 months
NASA has engaged senior officials from:
– Saudi Arabia
– Indonesia
– Malaysia
– Oman
– UAE
– Egypt

Holy FUCK!!!

Attached File

I was born in the early 80s, I’m a professional STEM nerd, and I love space, but NASA, for all its former glory, needs to be re-thought.

The nerds won whatever internal struggles occurred before I was born, and the agency has a much stronger and deeper affinity for science than for exploration. That is just flat wrong.

As a government entity, NASA can accept much higher risks to life than any commercial endeavor, and is the natural home of human exploration of space.

Space is hard, and it is our species’ future. NASA can whine and beg for more money, but either human space exploration will be much more prized than science, or NASA’s budget can stay flat.

Rovers are cute, and planetary flybys make nice pictures, but without humans in space, deep into space, no one cares.

There were plans to use Saturn V rockets for space stations and even a damn moon base back in the 70s, but we traded away that future for the Shuttle and ISS. I’ve toured the two complete Saturn V in Huntsville and the one in Houston. But for stick people in them and launching the mission, we could have had three more trips to moon.

NASA has degenerated into an administrative self-licking ice cream cone, and the focus is away from people and onto unmanned, robotic mission.

Until it unless this changes to an intense focus on human exploration, the public will find precious little support for NASA and any of its efforts.