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Posted: 6/11/2016 3:14:02 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure they do. Some of the largest Class B airports wont have much civilian GA traffic, but the Charlie and Delta airports will. ATC fucked an inexperienced pilot, and she killed 3 people. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Noob question, do small planes like that land at large airports all the time? Hobby seems like odd place for that sized plane. Sure they do. Some of the largest Class B airports wont have much civilian GA traffic, but the Charlie and Delta airports will. ATC fucked an inexperienced pilot, and she killed 3 people. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 3:15:56 PM EDT
[#2]
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after reading the ATC transcript which is in the link below, she was not sent around for being too high, she was sent around because tower was trying to sequence that little airplane between 737s and a 747 and changed the runway on her many times to get her out of the way of big jets on final going much faster being sequenced by approach control. It sounds like tower was jacking her around and was a factor in causing a very confusing situation. While she may have hit wake turbulence the fact that the fire department said there was no fire and no fuel spill at the crash scene appears to confirm she ran out of gas. It could have been a guage malfunction but it also could very well have been task saturation with the way tower was jacking her around and she ran out of gas. http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2016/06/cirrus-sr20-n4252g-safe-aviation-llc.html?m=1 HOUSTON - For nearly 20 minutes, air traffic controllers at Hobby Airport tried to guide a single-engine plane down safely. Instead, it crashed in the parking lot of an Ace Hardware store. All three people on board were killed. Below is a timeline of selected radio traffic transmissions, according to the website liveatc.net: 12:50 p.m. Air Traffic Control: “Cirrus 5-2 Golf, maintain maximum forward speed. If able, proceed directly to numbers. 737 is on a nine mile final following you with an 80 knot overtake.” 12:52 p.m. Air Traffic Control: “Cirrus 5-2 Golf, tower.” Pilot: “42-52 Golf.” Air Traffic Control: “Yeah, I got traffic behind you. Just go around and fly runway heading now. Maintain VFR to put you back in a downwind for runway 3-5. The winds are zero niner zero at 1-3. Gusts 1-8. Can you accept runway 3-5?” Pilot: “We’ll go around and line-up for runway 3-5. Downwind.” Air Traffic Control: “Fly runway heading for four for right now.” Pilot: “We’ll fly runway heading for four. 42-52 Golf.” 12:53 p.m. Air Traffic Control: “A 737 on five mile final, runway four. You’re going to be in front of him. Pilot: “42-52 Golf, turning around for runway 3-5.” Air Traffic Control: “Okay 52 Golf, let’s just, just enter the right downwind for runway 3-5. Pilot: “Right downwind for 3-5 42-52 Golf.” Air Traffic Control: “52-Golf, I’ll call your right base now.” 12:54 p.m. Air Traffic Control: “Cirrus 52-Golf. 737 at your two o’clock and three miles at niner hundred feet inbound for runway four. Advise when you have traffic in sight.” Pilot: “I have traffic in sight. 42-52 Golf.” Air Traffic Control: “42-52 Golf, make a right base behind that traffic for me, 3-5. Clear to land. You’re going to be following them. They’re going to be landing crossing runway prior to your arrival.” Pilot: “We’ll make a right base following them. 42-52 Golf for 3-5.” Air Traffic Control: “Southwest 35-64. Cirrus traffic ahead and to your right. Has you in sight. Going to make a right base behind you. Landing crossing runway behind you.” Southwest Pilot: “Southwest 35-64.” Air Traffic Control: “Cirrus 5-2 Golf. Make a, turn left 30 degrees. Pilot: “Left heading 30 degrees. 42-52 Golf.” Air Traffic Control: “November 5-2 Golf, did you want to follow the 737 runway four? Pilot: “Yes, that would be great. 42-52 Golf.” Air Traffic Control: “November 5-2 Golf, roger. Follow the 737 and it’s runway four, clear to land. Pilot: “So am I turning a right base now 42-52 Golf?” Air Traffic Control: “November 5-2 Golf, roger. Just maneuver back for the straight in. I don’t know which way you’re going now. Just turn back around to runway 3-5. Pilot: “Turning to 3-5. I’m so sorry for the confusion. 42-52 Golf.” Air Traffic Control: “That’s okay. We’ll get it.” 12:56 p.m. Air Traffic Control: “November 5-2 Golf, I need to you, okay, there you go. Straight into runway 3-5. Clear to land.” Pilot: “Straight into 3-5. Cleared to land. And I don’t believe I’m lined up for that. 42-52 Golf.” Air Traffic Control: “Okay 5-2 Golf. Roger. Turn to the right. And climb, maintain 1,600. Right turn.” Pilot: “1,600 right turn. 42-52 Golf.” Air Traffic Control: “5-2 Gulf, yes ma’am. Heading about 0-4-0.” Pilot: “0-4-0. 42-52 Golf.” 12:57 p.m. Air Traffic Control: “Okay 5-2 Golf. Let’s do this. Can you do a right turn back to join the straight in to 3-5? Could you do it like that?” Pilot: “Yes, right turn back to 3-5. 42-52 Golf.” Air Traffic Control: “November 5-2 Golf, okay so you’re just going to make a right turn all the way around to runway 3-5. And now you’re clear to land.” Pilot: “3-5 clear to land. 42-52 Golf.” 1:05 p.m. Air Traffic Control: “5-2 Golf, there’s a 747 on short final. Runway four touching down right in front of you. Just caution wake turbulence right at that intersection. “ Pilot: “Okay. I’ve got that in sight. Thank you. 42-52 Golf.” 1:07 p.m. Pilot: “Runway 3-5 in sight. 42-52 Golf.” Air Traffic Control: “5-2 Golf, winds zero niner zero at 13. Gusts at 1-8. Runway 3-5, again cleared to land.” Pilot: “3-5, cleared to land. Trying to get down again (laughs). 42-45 Golf.” Air Traffic Control: “No problem.” 1:08 p.m. Air Traffic Control: “Cirrus 42-52 Golf just go ahead and make the left turn now to enter the downwind, midfield downwind for only four, if you can just give me a nice tight pattern, I’m going to have traffic four miles behind you so I need you to just kind of keep it in tight if you could. And actually I might end up sequencing behind that traffic it’s going four miles a minute, it is going to be a little bit tight with the one behind it, so when you get on that downwind, stay on the downwind and advise me when you have that 737 in site, will either do four or we might swing you around to 3-5. Uh ma’am, ma’am straighten up straighten up.” The plane then appeared to flat spin to the ground, landing on a car parked outside the store. Relatives confirm that Tony Gray, his wife Dana and brother Jerry were on the plane. Sounds like 20 minutes of trying to comply with the controller's instructions, and probably missing something that should have been noticed (possibly the fuel quantity or a need to switch tanks). There have been a couple of comparisons to the Bonanza, in this thread. As I recall, there were a few fatalities involving fuel management of older Barons, while trying to get into airports. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 3:17:14 PM EDT
[#3]
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ATC should have had the heavies go around so he could get that little plane safely in, not pinched inbetween them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Noob question, do small planes like that land at large airports all the time? Hobby seems like odd place for that sized plane. Sure they do. Some of the largest Class B airports wont have much civilian GA traffic, but the Charlie and Delta airports will. ATC fucked an inexperienced pilot, and she killed 3 people. That would cost airlines too much money. I do not understand how they were not able to sequence that Cirrus in. I have flown for 18 years, and I have never been fucked around like that controller did to her. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 3:20:05 PM EDT
[#4]
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Noob question, do small planes like that land at large airports all the time? Hobby seems like odd place for that sized plane. If a student pilot never flies into a large airport, how are they ever going to get any experience in dealing with controllers? Few, if any, small airports have control towers. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 3:20:05 PM EDT
[#5]
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Noob question, do small planes like that land at large airports all the time? Hobby seems like odd place for that sized plane. I used to work a Cirrus like that one that flew into the Atlanta Hartsfield on a regular basis. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 3:26:43 PM EDT
[#6]
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That would cost airlines too much money. I do not understand how they were not able to sequence that Cirrus in. I have flown for 18 years, and I have never been fucked around like that controller did to her. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Noob question, do small planes like that land at large airports all the time? Hobby seems like odd place for that sized plane. Sure they do. Some of the largest Class B airports wont have much civilian GA traffic, but the Charlie and Delta airports will. ATC fucked an inexperienced pilot, and she killed 3 people. That would cost airlines too much money. I do not understand how they were not able to sequence that Cirrus in. I have flown for 18 years, and I have never been fucked around like that controller did to her. Just based on that transcript, it sounds like the controller could have handled it in a better way. Poor phraseology and it doesn't sound like the controller had a real plan and was just winging it. The Cirrus had the same priority as the airliners and the controller should have made a slot for it. That said, if they were running low on fuel the pilot should have let them know. Fuel issues in this case are strictly speculation and may have had nothing to do with it. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 3:28:18 PM EDT
[#7]
Pilot can refuse an atc clearance...especially once things began to unravel.
FAR 91.3 Responsibility and authority of the pilot in command. (a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft. (b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required to meet that emergency. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 3:33:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Sad for the family.
Fuckin Cirrus Pilots. Had one lock up a brake and blow a tire on a 6000 foot runway, closing the only open runway at an airport we were flying in to. Had to divert and were on the ground for about an hour. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 3:35:38 PM EDT
[#9]
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Just based on that transcript, it sounds like the controller could have handled it in a better way. Poor phraseology and it doesn't sound like the controller had a real plan and was just winging it. The Cirrus had the same priority as the airliners and the controller should have made a slot for it. That said, if they were running low on fuel the pilot should have let them know. Fuel issues in this case are strictly speculation and may have had nothing to do with it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Noob question, do small planes like that land at large airports all the time? Hobby seems like odd place for that sized plane. Sure they do. Some of the largest Class B airports wont have much civilian GA traffic, but the Charlie and Delta airports will. ATC fucked an inexperienced pilot, and she killed 3 people. That would cost airlines too much money. I do not understand how they were not able to sequence that Cirrus in. I have flown for 18 years, and I have never been fucked around like that controller did to her. Just based on that transcript, it sounds like the controller could have handled it in a better way. Poor phraseology and it doesn't sound like the controller had a real plan and was just winging it. The Cirrus had the same priority as the airliners and the controller should have made a slot for it. That said, if they were running low on fuel the pilot should have let them know. Fuel issues in this case are strictly speculation and may have had nothing to do with it. Does the Cirrus have any history of issues with a large fuel imbalance between the wings leading to potential control problems during turns? I agree that the Cirrus seems to have been led around by the controller for too long. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 3:40:08 PM EDT
[#10]
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That would cost airlines too much money. I do not understand how they were not able to sequence that Cirrus in. I have flown for 18 years, and I have never been fucked around like that controller did to her. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Noob question, do small planes like that land at large airports all the time? Hobby seems like odd place for that sized plane. Sure they do. Some of the largest Class B airports wont have much civilian GA traffic, but the Charlie and Delta airports will. ATC fucked an inexperienced pilot, and she killed 3 people. That would cost airlines too much money. I do not understand how they were not able to sequence that Cirrus in. I have flown for 18 years, and I have never been fucked around like that controller did to her. I'm not sure exactly what I was reading but wasn't it her that was fucking up each of the landing attempts? |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 3:40:08 PM EDT
[#11]
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Sad for the family. Fuckin Cirrus Pilots. Had one lock up a brake and blow a tire on a 6000 foot runway, closing the only open runway at an airport we were flying in to. Had to divert and were on the ground for about an hour. That could happen with any airplane. I knew a King Air pilot that was short. He was absolute hell on the main tires. Our theory was that, due to his leg length and the way he would have the seat adjusted to see over the panel, he was landing with his feet on the tops of the rudder pedals. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 3:43:57 PM EDT
[#12]
Sucks. Looks like she got in way over her head. Wonder how long it'll take for someone to turn that video into an "IN" gif. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 3:45:01 PM EDT
[#13]
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But to go from 2x go arounds to what looks like just falling out of the sky. Wow. ETA: Was nobody else on board a pilot? You would think after waving off twice someone else would have taken the controls. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Absent mechanical failure, how do you fuck up that badly? Sad deal. Little experience + fast plane+ too much $$$= stall/spin. It used to be the Bonanza now it is the cirrus. Very sad for her and her family. Sadly I think this is the case. Having to do two go arounds in a light plane on a clear day says to me the pilot didn't know what they were doing. But to go from 2x go arounds to what looks like just falling out of the sky. Wow. ETA: Was nobody else on board a pilot? You would think after waving off twice someone else would have taken the controls. Seems the go arounds were the result of shitty sequencing. It is better to go around than try to salvage a bad approach setup. This seems to be a two part issue. The first was being dicked around by ATC which lead to fuel exhaustion. The crash itself was likely a result of poor handling of the aircraft in an engine out scenario. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 3:47:58 PM EDT
[#14]
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I'm not sure exactly what I was reading but wasn't it her that was fucking up each of the landing attempts? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Noob question, do small planes like that land at large airports all the time? Hobby seems like odd place for that sized plane. Sure they do. Some of the largest Class B airports wont have much civilian GA traffic, but the Charlie and Delta airports will. ATC fucked an inexperienced pilot, and she killed 3 people. That would cost airlines too much money. I do not understand how they were not able to sequence that Cirrus in. I have flown for 18 years, and I have never been fucked around like that controller did to her. I'm not sure exactly what I was reading but wasn't it her that was fucking up each of the landing attempts? There does seem to have been some confusion on her part, but I would not say she was "fucking up each of the landing attempts". Jets coming in at a higher approach speed. Controller trying to fit her in with them and (my impression) not allowing enough of a gap between planes with that much of a difference in speed, followed by switching her around. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 3:50:07 PM EDT
[#15]
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I would hate to be that controller in more ways than one. So sad about the family. I was working as a controller several years ago when a family of 4 died in Bonanza that crashed on Christmas eve. I was not working them but was listening in as it happened. As hard as it was on all of us, I can't imagine what it was like for the rest of their family. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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after reading the ATC transcript..... I would hate to be that controller in more ways than one. So sad about the family. I was working as a controller several years ago when a family of 4 died in Bonanza that crashed on Christmas eve. I was not working them but was listening in as it happened. As hard as it was on all of us, I can't imagine what it was like for the rest of their family. I don't know how you do that job. I sat in once and watched, also played with the simulator there. It looked maddening. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 4:14:00 PM EDT
[#16]
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I don't know how you do that job. I sat in once and watched, also played with the simulator there. It looked maddening. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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after reading the ATC transcript..... I would hate to be that controller in more ways than one. So sad about the family. I was working as a controller several years ago when a family of 4 died in Bonanza that crashed on Christmas eve. I was not working them but was listening in as it happened. As hard as it was on all of us, I can't imagine what it was like for the rest of their family. I don't know how you do that job. I sat in once and watched, also played with the simulator there. It looked maddening. Compartmentalization |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 4:17:47 PM EDT
[#17]
How much does a plane like that go for?
And what's the Bonanza you guys keep referencing? |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 4:21:42 PM EDT
[#18]
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How much does a plane like that go for? And what's the Bonanza you guys keep referencing? Hundreds of thousands of dollars. The Beech Bonanza is one of the classic high end singles ever made. Great airplane. Fast, good looking, and classy. It has gotten a bad rap from time to time because of idiot pilots. The aircraft is great. 
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Posted: 6/11/2016 4:24:26 PM EDT
[#19]
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How much does a plane like that go for? And what's the Bonanza you guys keep referencing? Cirrus SR20 starts at about $350,000 new. Used can go from around $100,000+ depending on age, time on engine and airframe, etc. They've only been in production for about 15 years now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirrus_SR20 The Beechcraft bonanza is a similar airplane that's been in production in one variant or another for close to 70 years. They are quite a step up from typical training airplanes and they earned a reputation as "doctor killers" due to some of their characteristics as well as their attractiveness to doctors that were inexperienced pilots. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beechcraft_Bonanza |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 4:25:33 PM EDT
[#20]
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She managed to get that into a flat spin. When you hit a pole, it is going to spin you around. Look at the shadow and the pole. You can see the point of contact and the spin. Either way, she was super low and had no business being there. Crashing was inevitable. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 4:28:15 PM EDT
[#21]
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Noob question, do small planes like that land at large airports all the time? Hobby seems like odd place for that sized plane. All the time. According to a friend at HOU, GA is thirty percent of their traffic. Working GA in with Air Carriers happens all over. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 4:29:46 PM EDT
[#22]
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ATC should have had the heavies go around so he could get that little plane safely in, not pinched inbetween them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Noob question, do small planes like that land at large airports all the time? Hobby seems like odd place for that sized plane. Sure they do. Some of the largest Class B airports wont have much civilian GA traffic, but the Charlie and Delta airports will. ATC fucked an inexperienced pilot, and she killed 3 people. Disregard |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 4:35:26 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: She managed to get that into a flat spin. Yup, that's a drop for sure. Fucked up part is it's a cirrus and has a chute - doesn't look like it was used. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 4:36:45 PM EDT
[#24]
Just noticed the propane tanks what, 30' away?
Smashing in to them would have been ugly. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 4:38:20 PM EDT
[#25]
didn't know the brother was 27..There's a Jerry Gray that owns an 8000sq ft mansion just up the street from where I lived in Moore...I though that was the guy on the plane
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Posted: 6/11/2016 4:41:25 PM EDT
[#26]
This Cirrus pilot had to use his BRS chute and it failed to deploy. Luckily the pilot was able to land safely.
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=da260970-3974-400f-95b1-c095ab971053   |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 4:42:10 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Grays were the parents of four kids at my daughters school  |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 4:47:30 PM EDT
[#28]
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Noob question, do small planes like that land at large airports all the time? Hobby seems like odd place for that sized plane. Yes, Hobby is very friendly to general aviation. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 5:29:33 PM EDT
[#29]
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Yes, Hobby is very friendly to general aviation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Noob question, do small planes like that land at large airports all the time? Hobby seems like odd place for that sized plane. Yes, Hobby is very friendly to general aviation. I know Hobby is a major hub for Southwest, so I can understand ATC having to weave the Cirrus in between 737s. But who was flying a 747 into such a small facility? The longest runways are just 7600ft long. Not much room for a 747 carrying much weight to get airborne when it was time to leave. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 6:40:19 PM EDT
[#30]
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Sure they do. Some of the largest Class B airports wont have much civilian GA traffic, but the Charlie and Delta airports will. ATC fucked an inexperienced pilot, and she killed 3 people. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Noob question, do small planes like that land at large airports all the time? Hobby seems like odd place for that sized plane. Sure they do. Some of the largest Class B airports wont have much civilian GA traffic, but the Charlie and Delta airports will. ATC fucked an inexperienced pilot, and she killed 3 people. That is the bottom line. Though I doubt he knew how inexperienced she was. Unfortunately she did not have the crusty attitude that comes from age or the military of 'fuck you I'm not doing that' that is sometimes required when ATC wants to fuck you over. It's sad that all she had to do was declare Emergency Fuel and everybody would have gotten out of her way. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 6:46:42 PM EDT
[#31]
That video is brutal. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 6:48:42 PM EDT
[#32]
While the tower controller may have been inexperienced himself, approach control is setting the spacing on the jets and the tower is trying to get her in without controlling the spacing of the jets. There could have been a lack of communication between the tower and approach.
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Posted: 6/11/2016 6:50:48 PM EDT
[#33]
I'm no pilot, but if I was up in the air and my fuel was running low, and the ATC was fucking me around, I'd find someplace to land and figure I would sort it out with the FAA later. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 6:52:16 PM EDT
[#34]
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I would hate to be that controller in more ways than one. So sad about the family. I was working as a controller several years ago when a family of 4 died in Bonanza that crashed on Christmas eve. I was not working them but was listening in as it happened. As hard as it was on all of us, I can't imagine what it was like for the rest of their family. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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after reading the ATC transcript..... I would hate to be that controller in more ways than one. So sad about the family. I was working as a controller several years ago when a family of 4 died in Bonanza that crashed on Christmas eve. I was not working them but was listening in as it happened. As hard as it was on all of us, I can't imagine what it was like for the rest of their family. what year? where? |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 6:55:11 PM EDT
[#35]
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When you hit a pole, it is going to spin you around. Look at the shadow and the pole. You can see the point of contact and the spin. Either way, she was super low and had no business being there. Crashing was inevitable. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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She managed to get that into a flat spin. When you hit a pole, it is going to spin you around. Look at the shadow and the pole. You can see the point of contact and the spin. Either way, she was super low and had no business being there. Crashing was inevitable. I don't see a pole. If she hit the one by the street, that pole would have come down and the aircraft eould be much closer to the pole. Do you see a different pole? Also both wings appear to be intact, all the wreckage is in one spot. If she hit something, it would be more spread out. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 6:59:40 PM EDT
[#36]
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I don't see a pole. If she hit the one by the street, that pole would have come down and the aircraft eould be much closer to the pole. Also both wings appear to be intact, all the wreckage is in one spot. If she hit something, it would be more spread out. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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She managed to get that into a flat spin. When you hit a pole, it is going to spin you around. Look at the shadow and the pole. You can see the point of contact and the spin. Either way, she was super low and had no business being there. Crashing was inevitable. I don't see a pole. If she hit the one by the street, that pole would have come down and the aircraft eould be much closer to the pole. Also both wings appear to be intact, all the wreckage is in one spot. If she hit something, it would be more spread out. That airplane has a near vertical impact (it bounces vs slides) with a very shallow attitude. Spin, pole had nothing to do with it. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 7:02:13 PM EDT
[#37]
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what year? where? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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after reading the ATC transcript..... I would hate to be that controller in more ways than one. So sad about the family. I was working as a controller several years ago when a family of 4 died in Bonanza that crashed on Christmas eve. I was not working them but was listening in as it happened. As hard as it was on all of us, I can't imagine what it was like for the rest of their family. what year? where? I tried to look it up but didn't find it. About ten years ago. They crashed about five or six miles north of the Chattanooga airport. The pilot could not maintain assigned altitude or heading being vectored for the approach and crashed near the outer marker. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 7:13:08 PM EDT
[#38]
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I tried to look it up but didn't find it. About ten years ago. They crashed about five or six miles north of the Chattanooga airport. The pilot could not maintain assigned altitude or heading being vectored for the approach and crashed near the outer marker. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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after reading the ATC transcript..... I would hate to be that controller in more ways than one. So sad about the family. I was working as a controller several years ago when a family of 4 died in Bonanza that crashed on Christmas eve. I was not working them but was listening in as it happened. As hard as it was on all of us, I can't imagine what it was like for the rest of their family. what year? where? I tried to look it up but didn't find it. About ten years ago. They crashed about five or six miles north of the Chattanooga airport. The pilot could not maintain assigned altitude or heading being vectored for the approach and crashed near the outer marker. My Uncle, aunt, my cousin, her husband and 2 kids died in a bonanza on christmas day. naturally NTSB blamed the pilot, but he lost the turbo right after take off at max gross. 5000 hours. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 7:18:04 PM EDT
[#39]
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Small planes scare the shit out of me. I knew three people who died in two separate plane crashes and one more who survived a crash. I have flown with four people who have died in four separate GA accidents and I know four more who I never flew with, but died in seperate accidents. It's dangerous |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 7:21:59 PM EDT
[#40]
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Damn, that looked like a pretty sharp descent. Stall / spin. Classic accident. Trying to force a poor approach. Low and slow.
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Posted: 6/11/2016 7:25:58 PM EDT
[#41]
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Posted: 6/11/2016 7:28:11 PM EDT
[#42]
That's a nice little plane.
RIP to the three that died. What a shame. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 7:33:21 PM EDT
[#43]
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Damn, that looked like a pretty sharp descent. Stall / spin. Classic accident. Trying to force a poor approach. Low and slow. [ She wasn't on the approach, she had just cleared the runway and was passing the fence. ATC now had her start a left pattern which is the opposite of what they had previously asked. Then he started telling her she would need to keep in close (again for sequincing). He continued telling her about close in traffic, keeping tight turns, told her one runway, then said they may change it again. The guy was dumping all over her and she was apparently low-time enough to just take it instead of speaking up. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 7:33:42 PM EDT
[#44]
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That airplane has a near vertical impact (it bounces vs slides) with a very shallow attitude. Spin, pole had nothing to do with it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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She managed to get that into a flat spin. When you hit a pole, it is going to spin you around. Look at the shadow and the pole. You can see the point of contact and the spin. Either way, she was super low and had no business being there. Crashing was inevitable. I don't see a pole. If she hit the one by the street, that pole would have come down and the aircraft eould be much closer to the pole. Also both wings appear to be intact, all the wreckage is in one spot. If she hit something, it would be more spread out. That airplane has a near vertical impact (it bounces vs slides) with a very shallow attitude. Spin, pole had nothing to do with it. May have recovered the spin but could not pull out of the dive |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 7:35:05 PM EDT
[#45]
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I tried to look it up but didn't find it. About ten years ago. They crashed about five or six miles north of the Chattanooga airport. The pilot could not maintain assigned altitude or heading being vectored for the approach and crashed near the outer marker. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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after reading the ATC transcript..... I would hate to be that controller in more ways than one. So sad about the family. I was working as a controller several years ago when a family of 4 died in Bonanza that crashed on Christmas eve. I was not working them but was listening in as it happened. As hard as it was on all of us, I can't imagine what it was like for the rest of their family. what year? where? I tried to look it up but didn't find it. About ten years ago. They crashed about five or six miles north of the Chattanooga airport. The pilot could not maintain assigned altitude or heading being vectored for the approach and crashed near the outer marker. This one? http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20061227X01848&key=1&queryId=5fc846a5-71d4-4aab-ada5-ea5bcb60415a&pgno=1&pgsize=50 |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 7:45:25 PM EDT
[#46]
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Noob question, do small planes like that land at large airports all the time? Hobby seems like odd place for that sized plane. Hobby has a lot of general aviation. You drive past the planes on the way into the airport. Hell, even LAX has a general aviation section, but IIRC it's actually completely separate from the commercial side of the airport. Hobby has grown a lot in the last 5 years with Southwest expanding. That may be part of the problem, frankly. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 7:50:58 PM EDT
[#47]
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I'm no pilot, but if I was up in the air and my fuel was running low, and the ATC was fucking me around, I'd find someplace to land and figure I would sort it out with the FAA later. Closest divert would have been Ellington. I'm not sure she would have been greeted warmly there. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 7:52:36 PM EDT
[#48]
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<a href="http://s1053.photobucket.com/user/1979hondatrail90/media/ATC_zpsbbvlgulv.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s477/1979hondatrail90/ATC_zpsbbvlgulv.jpg</a> Damn. She almost fell on the parking garage my car is in right now. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 7:53:04 PM EDT
[#49]
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Closest divert would have been Ellington. I'm not sure she would have been greeted warmly there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm no pilot, but if I was up in the air and my fuel was running low, and the ATC was fucking me around, I'd find someplace to land and figure I would sort it out with the FAA later. Closest divert would have been Ellington. I'm not sure she would have been greeted warmly there. Beats dying. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 7:56:46 PM EDT
[#50]
Beautiful woman! Damn shame!
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