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Posted: 1/20/2024 9:50:36 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: GD seems to be having a hard time wrapping their head around why Baldwin was actually charged. He's being charged, not in his capacity as an actor, but because of his role as producer. To relate it to your theme park analogy, if the owner of the park, or the engineer, knows of a serious safety issue that could get someone killed, but does nothing to address it and continues to allow riders on the ride, then one or both would be culpable in the death due to negligence. Let’s take that a step further. Park owner knows the maintenance division is neglecting the equipment, but chooses to bring his own family to the park and ride the ride. Owner’s kid dies due to faulty equipment. Can the owner (who in that capacity was a parent/rider) sue to maintenance supervisor? Can he sue himself, the park owner? |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 9:52:44 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Rust set was beyond fucked. His wasn't the first fuck up on set....Armorer has a lawsuit saying she wasn't allowed in the church, didn't have monitors setup, wasn't told this was going to be a rehearsal practice draw, and said baldwin ignored her for a training session Three crew members who were present at the Bonanza Creek Ranch set on Saturday said they were particularly concerned about two accidental prop gun discharges. Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was “cold” — lingo for a weapon that doesn’t have any ammunition, including blanks — two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times. “There should have been an investigation into what happened,” a crew member said. “There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn’t happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush.” A colleague was so alarmed by the prop gun misfires that he sent a text message to the unit production manager. “We’ve now had 3 accidental discharges. This is super unsafe,” according to a copy of the message reviewed by The Times. That alone, as a producer, should have stopped work completely on any firearms related work and the issues addressed in full. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 9:53:55 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: Live ammo won't work in a Simms gun. some simms ammo works in any 9mm Fired from a standard 9mm - No mods required   |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 9:58:33 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That alone, as a producer, should have stopped work completely on any firearms related work and the issues addressed in full. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The Rust set was beyond fucked. His wasn't the first fuck up on set....Armorer has a lawsuit saying she wasn't allowed in the church, didn't have monitors setup, wasn't told this was going to be a rehearsal practice draw, and said baldwin ignored her for a training session Three crew members who were present at the Bonanza Creek Ranch set on Saturday said they were particularly concerned about two accidental prop gun discharges. Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was “cold” — lingo for a weapon that doesn’t have any ammunition, including blanks — two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times. “There should have been an investigation into what happened,” a crew member said. “There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn’t happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush.” A colleague was so alarmed by the prop gun misfires that he sent a text message to the unit production manager. “We’ve now had 3 accidental discharges. This is super unsafe,” according to a copy of the message reviewed by The Times. That alone, as a producer, should have stopped work completely on any firearms related work and the issues addressed in full. Yep. Let's extend RR's coaster analogy. I'm the safety officer for the park (producer). I know there have been multiple accidents (NDs) involving restraints not being locked (live rounds in guns). I take no corrective action. I allow the ride to continue operating (filming) without the supervisor (armorer) that my protocols require. I then personally launch the coaster (fire the gun) without checking restraints (inspecting the chambers). At that point I'm both negligent as safety officer and negligent as the operator. RR - you're a machinist. You've got a really heavy workpiece that needs some high speed lathe work. Lots of potential for danger. If someone tells you that they've got it chucked up, supported and trued, gearbox is set for full speed, you're good to go. Are you going to check that the chuck is tight, tailstock is locked with good pressure and then spin it slowly to at least visibly inspect how it's running? Or are you just going to shrug and go for it? If you just go for it do you have any culpability if the tailstock wasn't locked so the piece breaks loose and kills the shop apprentice? |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:05:21 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve done EMS training with LE for active shooter events. Most of them don’t use sims, they use their duty weapons. Everyone of them enters at singular check point, every one of them is searched for live ammo, their guns triple checked, and flagged with caution tape run down through the ejection port. If they leave the area, they are immediately rechecked again upon entering. That's how I've seen it done too. And everyone agrees to take it 100% seriously with no hard time about it. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:07:34 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: And someone was shot and killed, should the shooter be charged with manslaughter? Shooter would have had every reason to believe his actions were safe because he believed he was using a simunitions restricted firearm. Should the student be responsible to continually make sure the pistol in his hand was using the training rounds? Maybe not the student, but the person in charge if they are not the same person. Sort of like how a producer is the person in charge of a movie set, they'd be criminally responsible if they themselves wound up killing somebody. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:12:00 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I get the willies when someone points a "blue" gun at me or I have to point it at someone else. Get the willies? When you have to? So you're in military or law enforcement? Lmao wtf. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:14:17 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seems that most are avoiding the question by trying to say or list all the ways it couldn't happen. I have sim experience, its 100% on the end user to check and ensure the weapon/ammo is in fact simunition setup and safe to use around other people. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:18:03 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: some simms ammo works in any 9mm Fired from a standard 9mm - No mods required https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/70066/IMG-1613-3100571.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/70066/IMG-1614-3100570.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Live ammo won't work in a Simms gun. some simms ammo works in any 9mm Fired from a standard 9mm - No mods required https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/70066/IMG-1613-3100571.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/70066/IMG-1614-3100570.jpg Yes that sim ammo will work in a regular 9mm handgun, but the opposite isn't true. Regular 9mm ammo won't work in a dedicated sim gun like the ones made by Glock. That sim ammo is also one shot at a time in a regular 9mm handgun, because that white plastic piece gets stuck in the chamber and you have to push it out with a dowel. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:18:06 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: some simms ammo works in any 9mm Fired from a standard 9mm - No mods required https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/70066/IMG-1613-3100571.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/70066/IMG-1614-3100570.jpg It will fire (if it feeds), but it won't cycle and will be so inaccurate as to be useless even at Sims training distances. High chance the plastic sabot comes loose from the crimp in an unrestricted chamber and jams things up too. You've got a way bigger chance of a serious incident resulting from a bore obstruction in that case than any other issues. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:19:19 AM EDT
[#11]
I’ve been to 3 FoF classes with real sim guns (not airsoft). EVERYONE was taught how to preform a proper pat down and then the instructor and 2 other students patted you down. Same thing happened after we breaker for lunch.
Very safe and I learned a lot during those 3 classes |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:21:28 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Without getting too deep into it, they violated the Hollywood protocols, Baldwin had been briefed and was experienced as an actor. He chose, both as an actor and as the executive producer, to violate these protocols. You seem to have knowledge and honestly, without really knowing the facts, I'd agree. That's why he was charged. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:25:26 AM EDT
[#13]
During a large SOF exercise (I was the Exercise Director), we had a SEAL load a live round in with a mag of blanks. During the ‘hostage recovery’, he fired the live round. It blew off the Blank Firing Adapter and the metal shards injured the female ‘hostage’ role player. I’m not sure what punishment he received, but I don’t think he is a SEAL anymore.
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:28:01 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: And someone was shot and killed, should the shooter be charged with manslaughter? Shooter would have had every reason to believe his actions were safe because he believed he was using a simunitions restricted firearm. Should the student be responsible to continually make sure the pistol in his hand was using the training rounds? And yeah he murdered her. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:29:55 AM EDT
[#15]
Whatever the state's equivalent is, but yeah I'd say so. Working on the notion it wasn't intentional. In Texas it would be manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide depending on circumstances.
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:30:44 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Live ammo won't work in a Simms gun. This. Not to mention, every time I have done it we were checked. They even took our pocket knives lol. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:36:22 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Live ammo won't work in a Simms gun. UTM rounds use a regular AR15 with a different BCG. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:36:30 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. Not to mention, every time I have done it we were checked. They even took our pocket knives lol. Lol. This thread isn't about simms. OP just got lazy in his analogy. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:40:13 AM EDT
[#19]
 Simunition Glock 17 Installation YouTube |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:41:02 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Alec Baldwin, is that you?! 
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:43:02 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Back when I was in the Marines doing infantry school MOUT training (2006) at Camp Pendleton, one of our instructors mentioned a Recon Marine (1st Recon BTL) was recently killed near there. Not sure the exact circumstances but a magazine of real ammo somehow made it in one of his pouches mixed in with blank ammo. From what the instructor told me, the first few rounds blew off the BFA/blank firing adapter and the next few killed another Marine. Wasn't sure if it was true at the time or if it was just some tale to scare us. EDIT: This is the likely event. All the dates match up. I was in Infantry school during this time. https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-witnesses-testify-about-2006-fatal-training-2008feb13-story.html And it was a 1st Marine Recon. Guess my instructors were not BS'ing. Hadn't thought about this in 15+ years and never verified it. RIP https://www.forcerecon.com/copy-of-ssgt-jason-d-whitehouse This happened when I was in rotc. They had BRM the day before an FTX. A mag with 3 live rounds in it got passed out to load with blanks. Thefirst live round blew off the BFA and the other 2 went past my buddy's head. No injuries, but some shit pants. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:44:35 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good. Let's take that and run with it. You are responsible for every mechanical device you're in control of. It is your responsibility to verify its status and safety, even if others are also responsible for the same, in certain circumstances such as a movie set. The ultimate responsibility lies at the feet of the current user. So, the kid working the amusement park ride exercises his duty to strap a person into the ride. He pushes the go button. Another engineer, responsible for maintenance has left a doohickey discombobulated down the track and the rider falls to their death. Should the kid be held responsible? Or, should they have been allowed to assume the engineer did their job and made the rest of the ride safe. For those who struggle with ad infinitum discussion, the example doesn't necessarily need to be realistic. The purpose is to find the ultimate line of demarcation. Similar to abortion discussion where we push the person to eventually admit, at some point killing the baby is wrong. Then it is a matter of when. Or, asking a woman if she would have sex for 1 million dollars and then offering her 20 bucks. You established that she would fuck for money, it becomes a matter of how much. The problem with trying to argue a point with hypotheticals is the person using hypotheticals ALWAYS start changing their hypotheticals when they don't get the desired responses. It's like arguing with a woman. Good luck with your thread. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:44:55 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes that sim ammo will work in a regular 9mm handgun, but the opposite isn't true. Regular 9mm ammo won't work in a dedicated sim gun like the ones made by Glock. That sim ammo is also one shot at a time in a regular 9mm handgun, because that white plastic piece gets stuck in the chamber and you have to push it out with a dowel. Have you ever fired them ? I have and none ever stuck in the barrel. These are what the Marine corp. used, it woulda been kinda dumb training with a single shot handgun. FX simms |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:45:25 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why does filming a scene count, but rehearsal doesn't? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I suppose that this about the Baldwin case? Your hypothetical scenario ref Simms is what's causing the issue with you not getting the response that you're looking for. The fact that blue barrel simms won't chamber a live round notwithstanding , with the facts as I know them, that Baldwin should not have been charged. Again, I have no idea if safety briefs were given and Baldwin ignored them, etc…If that's the case then yes, there's a degree of negligence to his actions which resulted in a death of a pretty white girl. So to answer your question at face value my answer would be no. I'm not looking for a particular response. Just seeing how far personal responsibility goes in peoples' opinion. I dont give two shots about Baldwin. He is a scum bag. But I dont think he is responsible for that shooting. The armorer was. Baldwin had no reason to point the gun at anyone or pull the trigger. They weren’t filming a scene that required it. He just did it. Why does filming a scene count, but rehearsal doesn't? It wasn’t rehearsal, they were merely setting up the camera and lighting. He wasn’t supposed to pull the trigger at all. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:47:01 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It seems like there is a lot more to this particular story. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Without getting too deep into it, they violated the Hollywood protocols, Baldwin had been briefed and was experienced as an actor. He chose, both as an actor and as the executive producer, to violate these protocols. It seems like there is a lot more to this particular story. Absolutely, which is why it happened. If normal procedures were followed, nobody would have gotten hurt. This was failure on multiple levels from multiple people. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:48:45 AM EDT
[#26]
Criminally, the shooter, instructor, and whoever introduced the live round if identified.
In a civil proceeding, the shooter, event host, and everyone that was involved in the participants safety circle. That’s going off of RR’s OP and keeping it simple. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:50:15 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yes that sim ammo will work in a regular 9mm handgun, but the opposite isn't true. Regular 9mm ammo won't work in a dedicated sim gun like the ones made by Glock. That sim ammo is also one shot at a time in a regular 9mm handgun, because that white plastic piece gets stuck in the chamber and you have to push it out with a dowel. Have you ever fired them ? I have and none ever stuck in the barrel. FX simms You either didn't read what I said or didn't comprehend it. Load up a mag of sim ammo, stick it in a NON-sim gun and try to shoot the whole mag. See what happens. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:51:43 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you ever fired them ? I have and none ever stuck in the barrel. These are what the Marine corp. used, it woulda been kinda dumb training with a single shot handgun. FX simms In a regular 9mm barrel and not a conversion it will pop out. In a Sims gun or conversion, of course not. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:55:47 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You seem to have knowledge and honestly, without really knowing the facts, I'd agree. That's why he was charged. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Without getting too deep into it, they violated the Hollywood protocols, Baldwin had been briefed and was experienced as an actor. He chose, both as an actor and as the executive producer, to violate these protocols. You seem to have knowledge and honestly, without really knowing the facts, I'd agree. That's why he was charged. I dug pretty deep into this when it happened. The armorer, assistant director and Baldwin all messed up. If any one of them had done the right thing this would have been avoided. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:55:54 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not looking for a particular response. Just seeing how far personal responsibility goes in peoples' opinion. I dont give two shots about Baldwin. He is a scum bag. But I dont think he is responsible for that shooting. The armorer was. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I suppose that this about the Baldwin case? Your hypothetical scenario ref Simms is what's causing the issue with you not getting the response that you're looking for. The fact that blue barrel simms won't chamber a live round notwithstanding , with the facts as I know them, that Baldwin should not have been charged. Again, I have no idea if safety briefs were given and Baldwin ignored them, etc If that's the case then yes, there's a degree of negligence to his actions which resulted in a death of a pretty white girl. So to answer your question at face value my answer would be no. I'm not looking for a particular response. Just seeing how far personal responsibility goes in peoples' opinion. I dont give two shots about Baldwin. He is a scum bag. But I dont think he is responsible for that shooting. The armorer was. As to the posted scenario my answer would be no, not as written. It is akin to being given the keys to a car on a movie set to drive in a stunt. The accelerator gets stuck or the brakes fail and you run over a bystander. But... to claim as the driver that you never hit the accelerator, or had pointed the car at the crowd when it wasn't supposed to be, there may in fact be charges filed. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:58:10 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You either didn't read what I said or didn't comprehend it. You're correct I couldn't comprehend it because it's so fucking complicated. WTF are you even talking about - I said THIS simms ammo fires from any 9mm. I don't give a fuck about the simms gun , my only fucking point is THIS simms ammo fires from any 9mm. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 10:58:17 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It wasn’t rehearsal, they were merely setting up the camera and lighting. He wasn’t supposed to pull the trigger at all. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I suppose that this about the Baldwin case? Your hypothetical scenario ref Simms is what's causing the issue with you not getting the response that you're looking for. The fact that blue barrel simms won't chamber a live round notwithstanding , with the facts as I know them, that Baldwin should not have been charged. Again, I have no idea if safety briefs were given and Baldwin ignored them, etc…If that's the case then yes, there's a degree of negligence to his actions which resulted in a death of a pretty white girl. So to answer your question at face value my answer would be no. I'm not looking for a particular response. Just seeing how far personal responsibility goes in peoples' opinion. I dont give two shots about Baldwin. He is a scum bag. But I dont think he is responsible for that shooting. The armorer was. Baldwin had no reason to point the gun at anyone or pull the trigger. They weren’t filming a scene that required it. He just did it. Why does filming a scene count, but rehearsal doesn't? It wasn’t rehearsal, they were merely setting up the camera and lighting. He wasn’t supposed to pull the trigger at all. Yup, the armorer claims she wasn't told this was going to happen, if it did she would have been in the room which she anyways wasn't because of covid protocols, and wouldn't have let him aim the gun at camera crew regardless of her ammo fuckups and the ADs fuckups by not checking the gun as well as by protocol should have been. Baldwin shouldn't have been aiming the gun at the crew anways. They broke every fucking single protocol that was supposed be in place to prevent this, and there were multiple rules for it. All the holes in the swiss cheese lined up and apparently, did 3 other times on set with accidental discharges I really don't think people understand how fucked up this incident was and how many more fuckups prior to this incident occurred. Its almost beyond negligence |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 11:00:29 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's why I said "Slipped a live gun into the mix". The simunitions I've used only required a bbl and spring changed in a real pistol. the sim barrels we used were a different color from live barrels. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 11:04:17 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're correct I couldn't comprehend it because it's so fucking complicated. WTF are you even talking about - I said THIS simms ammo fires from any 9mm. I don't give a fuck about the simms gun , my only fucking point is THIS simms ammo fires from any 9mm. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You either didn't read what I said or didn't comprehend it. You're correct I couldn't comprehend it because it's so fucking complicated. WTF are you even talking about - I said THIS simms ammo fires from any 9mm. I don't give a fuck about the simms gun , my only fucking point is THIS simms ammo fires from any 9mm. "any 9mm"   Please post a video of you shooting a whole mag of sim ammo through a regular NON-sim gun with no stoppages. I'm curious to see how the marine corps is able to do it. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 11:09:15 AM EDT
[#35]
abdicating all personal responsibility because someone gave you a gun is honestly really terrible. It's at the very least negligent manslaughter. If you're brain dead enough to receive a weapon from someone and not verify it yourself you should never be allowed near firearms or behind a motor vehicle. I'm not even getting into the fact that he arbitrarily pointed it at someone and pulled the trigger.
This is as morally vacant as "I wuz jus followin orders " |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 11:12:52 AM EDT
[#36]
Now we know Alec Baldwin's screen name.
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Posted: 1/20/2024 11:13:24 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol. This thread isn't about simms. OP just got lazy in his analogy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This. Not to mention, every time I have done it we were checked. They even took our pocket knives lol. Lol. This thread isn't about simms. OP just got lazy in his analogy. I was still working on my first coffee and hadn't even broken into the donuts yet. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 11:13:57 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Live ammo won't work in a Simms gun. Title says a live gun, not live ammo in a Sims gun |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 11:16:46 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not looking for a particular response. Just seeing how far personal responsibility goes in peoples' opinion. I dont give two shots about Baldwin. He is a scum bag. But I dont think he is responsible for that shooting. The armorer was. She got charged also |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 11:17:55 AM EDT
[#40]
If my day's activities included pointing gun like things at people I didn't plan on killing, I'd absolutely give more than a cursory inspection of the guns and ammo to make sure the whole "not killing them" objective was met.
Trust but verify. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 11:19:13 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: First guns, and now amusement rides? The problem with trying to argue a point with hypotheticals is the person using hypotheticals ALWAYS start changing their hypotheticals when they don't get the desired responses. It's like arguing with a woman. Good luck with your thread. Funny. I stated I dont have a desired response. And it isnt a hypothetical. It is ad infinitum. Taking the situation the absurd extreme. It isnt an argument or debate. It is a discussion. There were questions asked. There were no claims made. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 11:24:56 AM EDT
[#42]
Freedom is scary and everybody needs to just accept risks of injury, sickness or death caused by other people when it comes to drinking, drug use, smoking, driving, sports, exercise, entertainment, contagious disease, or life in general. People who are afraid of those risks are supposed to just stay in their mom's basement. Except injuries or deaths involving live-fire training with real firearms. THOSE injuries and deaths are different and demand swift and terrible retribution.
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Posted: 1/20/2024 11:41:35 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why does filming a scene count, but rehearsal doesn't? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I suppose that this about the Baldwin case? Your hypothetical scenario ref Simms is what's causing the issue with you not getting the response that you're looking for. The fact that blue barrel simms won't chamber a live round notwithstanding , with the facts as I know them, that Baldwin should not have been charged. Again, I have no idea if safety briefs were given and Baldwin ignored them, etc…If that's the case then yes, there's a degree of negligence to his actions which resulted in a death of a pretty white girl. So to answer your question at face value my answer would be no. I'm not looking for a particular response. Just seeing how far personal responsibility goes in peoples' opinion. I dont give two shots about Baldwin. He is a scum bag. But I dont think he is responsible for that shooting. The armorer was. Baldwin had no reason to point the gun at anyone or pull the trigger. They weren’t filming a scene that required it. He just did it. Why does filming a scene count, but rehearsal doesn't? This is a really important detail to his personal responsibility as an actor. He wasn't required to point a gun at someone. He wasn't filming or rehearsing a scene that required pointing a gun at someone. He was goofing about practicing some gun handling in an entirely unsafe manner. He had absolutely no reason to point that gun at a member of the crew (not cast) and pull the trigger. He did that with a gun he had not checked the chambers on nor had he watched someone else check the chambers. The person that gave him the gun was not the armorer. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 11:44:55 AM EDT
[#44]
Whoever fires the gun is responsible. There, that was easy.
 As for Baldwin, why the hell there was live ammo on the ranch at all is what I want to know. There should not have been a single live round anywhere and these idiots had multiple ND's. There was a rumor at the time that the armorer was allowing crew to plink during breaks. She without a doubt was the one that introduced the ammo onto the set, the other morons would not even know what caliber to buy. As for Baldwin himself, he just didn't point a gun. Two separate actions are required. He cocked the gun and pulled the trigger. Thre is a reason sims training requires a different colored gun, a physical patdown and limited access to the training area. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 11:46:34 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Whoever fires the gun is responsible. There, that was easy. As for Baldwin, why the hell there was live ammo on the ranch at all is what I want to know. There should not have been a single live round anywhere and these idiots had multiple ND's. There was a rumor at the time that the armorer was allowing crew to plink during breaks. She without a doubt was the one that introduced the ammo onto the set, the other morons would not even know what caliber to buy. The armorer fucked up for sure. Who would have the authority to fire her for fucking up? That would be the producer, Baldwin. Who would have the authority to halt filming while they unfuck this situation? Baldwin. There had been 3 NDs already with no corrective action taken. On the contrary, they decided to have firearms on set without the armorer. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 11:52:10 AM EDT
[#46]
I'm actually setting up a Con-Sim class next week and I can assure you that a live round will not load/function in the chamber. The end of the chamber right before the barrel is tapered /rounded at the end to only fit a specific type of SIM round.
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Posted: 1/20/2024 11:55:58 AM EDT
[#47]
Me, you and Bob are sitting around and I hand you a knife and say, "Stab Bob in the chest while I film it... he'll be fine, it's a fake knife".
You take the knife and it isn't immediately obvious that it's a fake knife to you, but you're not exactly a knife or prop expert (NMJ and all)... so you proceed to bury it to the hilt in Bob's chest, killing poor Bob mostly dead. Fairly sure there wouldn't be a lot of debate in that context about your obligation as the "stabber" to verify the weapon in your hand. How does the weapon being a gun make your obligation any different? |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 11:57:35 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, lotta tap dancing. In answer to your query, the person who "slipped a live gun into the mix" would be primarily responsible, if it were inside a controlled environment, IMO. Could it hurt to check your own gun? Of course not. Under those circumstances though, I doubt your actions would be seen as rising to the level of criminality. Civil liability is another matter, of course. Damn, now you've got me not wanting to ever do Simunitions. I believe the shooter should still be responsible. You check the sim gun when you put it in your holster. The "slipped in gun" would be found at that point. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 12:01:54 PM EDT
[#49]
Kinda on topic.
I was gifted a box of Simunitions for 9mm. What the hell do I do with it? Just keep it as a collectors item? I'd have issues if I shot it from say a regular Glock 17 right? Edit: Looks like it jams the gun up pretty bad. |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 12:07:28 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is a really important detail to his personal responsibility as an actor. He wasn't required to point a gun at someone. He wasn't filming or rehearsing a scene that required pointing a gun at someone. He was goofing about practicing some gun handling in an entirely unsafe manner. He had absolutely no reason to point that gun at a member of the crew (not cast) and pull the trigger. He did that with a gun he had not checked the chambers on nor had he watched someone else check the chambers. The person that gave him the gun was not the armorer. I will add that if someone did exactly what Baldwin did with a simunitions gun under the same (reckless, skylarking) circumstances and it wound up injuring someone, I would absolutely find that person guilty. If what they did was consistent with, and in the spirit of whatever training was being undertaken.... In other words something that could have happened to anyone else, I would not find them guilty. It's the person who says: "I'm gonna take a dangerous thing and increase that danger for no good reason." who steps wrongly IMHO. |
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