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Posted: 10/10/2021 7:18:13 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Switches are a great implementation but Alpine windows FTW!! You're in luck because soon they'll have a Korea Motors fuel cell. What drivetrain should they have adopted? What's the military currently specifying? |
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Posted: 10/10/2021 7:19:40 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm curious how this thing is going to get through all the government red tape. Between the EPA and NHTSA, it should be fun. I thought it had already been designed with those in mind. Of course that was pre-Biden new green deal. |
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Posted: 10/10/2021 7:24:20 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No kidding. Perhaps a Hessian Grenadier Helmet brass for a front plate!  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: eh. The colonialism is what's really attracting me to it.  No kidding. Perhaps a Hessian Grenadier Helmet brass for a front plate! Wrong grenadiers...  Though I believe it was technically named after a pub, which was named after them. |
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Posted: 10/10/2021 7:29:54 AM EDT
[#4]
I had no idea this was a thing until this thread.
Turbo diesel inline 6 and a double cab truck is really calling to me. And hell, 60k isn't that bad considering what vehicles cost now. |
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Posted: 10/10/2021 7:30:53 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Guy who started as a chemical engineer bought part of BPs chemical biz by mortgaging his house - that start has made him about $18B - and made him, depending, the richest in UK. When JLR discontinued the full frame, solid axle Defender, he approached Rover to purchase the design, line and tooling. They instead scrapped it. Pissed off, he decided he'd make his own. He was on a mission and it did not drift into fluff and opulence. So they went clean sheet. It's a solid axle, full frame, off road optimized, rugged machine. Utility has been prioritized - as mentioned it can be had with rubber floors and drains. But it's not a traditional US, large wheel rock climber. Wrangler and Bronco will likely keep the 35" factory setup to themselves. It's very much in the vein of Defender, old GWagen, 70 Series/105 overland basic dirt oriented transport. The kind of thing someone will take London to Vladivostok. Solid Carrano axles, triple lockers, usable off-road power, serious engineering. You can order 17" steelies - that points you at use expectation. These things are best judged after wide use in challenging terrain - not projected ability. But from everything I've seen, Ineos has done what's needed. Ratliffe was very focused on a particular end: tough, simple, effective. I could see them doing something like the Camel Trophy to exhibit its cred. It's not an icon yet, but it's got a lot of potential. It just did the tour de france, does that count?  |
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Posted: 10/10/2021 8:41:47 AM EDT
[#6]
I'm waiting on the pickup version but I'm torn between it and the Cyber Truck. What do?
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Posted: 10/10/2021 8:59:25 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm waiting on the pickup version but I'm torn between it and the Cyber Truck. What do? This is GD good sir. Get both. |
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Posted: 10/10/2021 9:26:34 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It gets backwards text and gauges? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So everyone knows what it would look like with the steering wheel on the correct side: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/36516/55963DBE-D9B6-4DD0-865B-0B6EF7971187_jpe-2112038.jpg It gets backwards text and gauges? Eyyy I didn’t promise a rose garden, I promised the steering wheel on the other side! 
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Posted: 10/10/2021 10:02:39 AM EDT
[#9]
I’ve been following them from the very beginning. Been getting all their emails with the videos of the development progress. Wife told me last year I needed to get a new truck; but, my 2012 Tacoma only has 130,000 miles & is running great. Looking to supplement the Tacoma with a Grenadier maybe. I looked at the new Defender, it’s not for me.
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:42:27 PM EDT
[#10]
For some reason lots of Grenadier videos posted to Youtube the last 2 weeks. I'm anxiously awaiting the US tour so I can hopefully see one in person. I got the PDF brochure last week. Looks to be about the same size as a '21 Wrangler Rubicon 4 door, but 10" longer and an inch or 2 wider.
I figure I'll get everything but the drop down kitchen table and weird rear side windows, and I told my wife that it'll probably be in the $80K range. She wasn't thrilled, but it's my money and our agreement is as long as it doesn't impact paying my bills, I do what I want. Same for hers. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:44:02 PM EDT
[#11]
I'd like to test drive one
Jeep 
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:45:54 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can I get it in electric?  @beitodesstrafe Hydrogen fuel cell probably in the next few years, but no plans for electric. They're building for third world NGO use. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:46:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For some reason lots of Grenadier videos posted to Youtube the last 2 weeks. I'm anxiously awaiting the US tour so I can hopefully see one in person. I got the PDF brochure last week. Looks to be about the same size as a '21 Wrangler Rubicon 4 door, but 10" longer and an inch or 2 wider. I figure I'll get everything but the drop down kitchen table and weird rear side windows, and I told my wife that it'll probably be in the $80K range. She wasn't thrilled, but it's my money and our agreement is as long as it doesn't impact paying my bills, I do what I want. Same for hers. 10" longer... so about the same length as the SEMA concept. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:59:50 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @beitodesstrafe Hydrogen fuel cell probably in the next few years, but no plans for electric. They're building for third world NGO use. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Can I get it in electric? @beitodesstrafe Hydrogen fuel cell probably in the next few years, but no plans for electric. They're building for third world NGO use. Appears Hyundais FCEV (24kW batts normally) is shooting for 500 mile plus range in the Grenadier |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 2:15:12 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For some reason lots of Grenadier videos posted to Youtube the last 2 weeks. I'm anxiously awaiting the US tour so I can hopefully see one in person. I got the PDF brochure last week. Looks to be about the same size as a '21 Wrangler Rubicon 4 door, but 10" longer and an inch or 2 wider. I figure I'll get everything but the drop down kitchen table and weird rear side windows, and I told my wife that it'll probably be in the $80K range. She wasn't thrilled, but it's my money and our agreement is as long as it doesn't impact paying my bills, I do what I want. Same for hers. If it helps, its slightly longer (foot, engine packaging), wider (6"), with 5" longer WB than the old 110 Defender SW. Very much Defender 110 like tho. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 2:30:47 PM EDT
[#16]
Sortofwant
Needs options for a roof basket with the spare tyre, a double jerry can rack where the spare tyre currently is, and a shovel strapped across the hood. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 2:34:51 PM EDT
[#17]
At that price point they will sell everything they can produce.
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Posted: 11/8/2021 2:38:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: $65k USD is pretty reasonable given the feature set. 30k GBP ($45k) was bullshit from the beginning BMW Driveline, Carraro axles, Gestamp chassis and panels, most of the suppliers are known quantities and top flight. Initial engineering from Magna Powertrain and series engineering by Magna Steyr made abundant sense and created a good deal of confidence. The whole project has come off well, but given Ineos' competencies and Ratcliffes vision , I've been confident from the beginning. Though there's aspects I'm not thrilled with, should be a suitable heir to the Defenders legacy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not really surprised by the costs. When you source parts from BMW and Magna, shits going to be expensive. $65k USD is pretty reasonable given the feature set. 30k GBP ($45k) was bullshit from the beginning BMW Driveline, Carraro axles, Gestamp chassis and panels, most of the suppliers are known quantities and top flight. Initial engineering from Magna Powertrain and series engineering by Magna Steyr made abundant sense and created a good deal of confidence. The whole project has come off well, but given Ineos' competencies and Ratcliffes vision , I've been confident from the beginning. Though there's aspects I'm not thrilled with, should be a suitable heir to the Defenders legacy. Keep in mind that British market pricing vs US is not usually 1:1 adjusted for currency value. Cars that sell over there for, say £60k will often sell here for $60-65k. Part of that is that stuff in England just tends to be more expensive, part of it is that I believe their price includes VAT. IMHO we’re probably going to be looking at a base price of about 50k here. Maybe not since it’s a startup and they need better margins to create cash flow, but… |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 3:01:31 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Keep in mind that British market pricing vs US is not usually 1:1 adjusted for currency value. Cars that sell over there for, say 60k will often sell here for $60-65k. Part of that is that stuff in England just tends to be more expensive, part of it is that I believe their price includes VAT. IMHO we're probably going to be looking at a base price of about 50k here. Maybe not since it's a startup and they need better margins to create cash flow, but Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Not really surprised by the costs. When you source parts from BMW and Magna, shits going to be expensive. $65k USD is pretty reasonable given the feature set. 30k GBP ($45k) was bullshit from the beginning BMW Driveline, Carraro axles, Gestamp chassis and panels, most of the suppliers are known quantities and top flight. Initial engineering from Magna Powertrain and series engineering by Magna Steyr made abundant sense and created a good deal of confidence. The whole project has come off well, but given Ineos' competencies and Ratcliffes vision , I've been confident from the beginning. Though there's aspects I'm not thrilled with, should be a suitable heir to the Defenders legacy. Keep in mind that British market pricing vs US is not usually 1:1 adjusted for currency value. Cars that sell over there for, say 60k will often sell here for $60-65k. Part of that is that stuff in England just tends to be more expensive, part of it is that I believe their price includes VAT. IMHO we're probably going to be looking at a base price of about 50k here. Maybe not since it's a startup and they need better margins to create cash flow, but  Pet project of a multi-billionaire who's hell bent on saving the spiritual legacy of the Defender. Cash flow is not a major factor, if it's one at all, unlike most new vehicle startups. These things look to be built like tanks, designed for off road use, unlike modern soccer mom SUVs. They'll sell. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 3:38:45 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Keep in mind that British market pricing vs US is not usually 1:1 adjusted for currency value. Cars that sell over there for, say 60k will often sell here for $60-65k. Part of that is that stuff in England just tends to be more expensive, part of it is that I believe their price includes VAT. IMHO we're probably going to be looking at a base price of about 50k here. Maybe not since it's a startup and they need better margins to create cash flow, but Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Not really surprised by the costs. When you source parts from BMW and Magna, shits going to be expensive. $65k USD is pretty reasonable given the feature set. 30k GBP ($45k) was bullshit from the beginning BMW Driveline, Carraro axles, Gestamp chassis and panels, most of the suppliers are known quantities and top flight. Initial engineering from Magna Powertrain and series engineering by Magna Steyr made abundant sense and created a good deal of confidence. The whole project has come off well, but given Ineos' competencies and Ratcliffes vision , I've been confident from the beginning. Though there's aspects I'm not thrilled with, should be a suitable heir to the Defenders legacy. Keep in mind that British market pricing vs US is not usually 1:1 adjusted for currency value. Cars that sell over there for, say 60k will often sell here for $60-65k. Part of that is that stuff in England just tends to be more expensive, part of it is that I believe their price includes VAT. IMHO we're probably going to be looking at a base price of about 50k here. Maybe not since it's a startup and they need better margins to create cash flow, but Basically true regarding market based pricing, VAT and exchange rate calcs. Markets tend to be independently priced for reasons beyond taxation, but correlate roughly. Commercial and Diesel models won't be available US. All the puff from Ineos is Base Commercial pricing in UK, Spain, France, and OZ. Remarkably consistent (sans VAT @ $58K) tho not final. 5 Seater and Truck Cab havnt been mentioned, though all is couched in expectation. So any price speculation is based on a model the US wont receive anyway, but undoubtedly the 5 seater will be more expensive than the Commercial. I'm hedging at $65k for a reasons unrelated to any exchange calc tho - a bit under or more likely over. But nothing is set at this point, especially with regard to pricing the trim the US will receive. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 3:52:17 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pet project of a multi-billionaire who's hell bent on saving the spiritual legacy of the Defender. Cash flow is not a major factor, if it's one at all, unlike most new vehicle startups. These things look to be built like tanks, designed for off road use, unlike modern soccer mom SUVs. They'll sell. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Not really surprised by the costs. When you source parts from BMW and Magna, shits going to be expensive. $65k USD is pretty reasonable given the feature set. 30k GBP ($45k) was bullshit from the beginning BMW Driveline, Carraro axles, Gestamp chassis and panels, most of the suppliers are known quantities and top flight. Initial engineering from Magna Powertrain and series engineering by Magna Steyr made abundant sense and created a good deal of confidence. The whole project has come off well, but given Ineos' competencies and Ratcliffes vision , I've been confident from the beginning. Though there's aspects I'm not thrilled with, should be a suitable heir to the Defenders legacy. Keep in mind that British market pricing vs US is not usually 1:1 adjusted for currency value. Cars that sell over there for, say 60k will often sell here for $60-65k. Part of that is that stuff in England just tends to be more expensive, part of it is that I believe their price includes VAT. IMHO we're probably going to be looking at a base price of about 50k here. Maybe not since it's a startup and they need better margins to create cash flow, but Pet project of a multi-billionaire who's hell bent on saving the spiritual legacy of the Defender. Cash flow is not a major factor, if it's one at all, unlike most new vehicle startups. These things look to be built like tanks, designed for off road use, unlike modern soccer mom SUVs. They'll sell. Ineos makes everything profitable - and they've been pretty proud of the lean nature. But although vehicle construction is not a core competency, financial management has been. If Ratliffe didnt think he could profit, the project wouldn't have commenced. But yes appears he's 650M GBP into this (including 90M GBP capital contribution recently) Financial concerns are absolutely an issue. He doesn't want to end up like Dyson and punt 500M GBP in. |
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