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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/25/2015 7:23:53 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BASE:
Where the hell is this BS coming from? Damaging organs and ED from having too much T? Mismanaging E2 and hematocrit maybe, but that's not the same as having a high T level. I've never heard of anyone damaging organs from maintaining high T, and I know a shitload of guys that haven't seen levels as low as yours in 20-30 years. If there is some mechanism that could be described to me that would result in damage or ED from having high T in the absence of some out of range E2 or hematocrit, I'd really love to hear about it. I don't want to get out of bed when I'm below 1000. I sure as hell don't want to chase the old lady around with those levels. I'm glad I have a doc that thinks nothing of 250-300/week. I also have stacks of bloodwork I've done over the years that show I'm only getting more healthy. Pre-diabetes is gone, liver and kidney functions are still improving (they were never out of range), and my lipid profile has even improved. Steroids are serious shit, boss. Thats the basis for the blast and cruise. Otherwise why not just blast all the time? |
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Posted: 10/25/2015 7:23:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: pumbaajk]
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By killswitch:
When I search google for "diatomacious earth to lower hematocrit levels" what link do you think comes up? This thread. None of the steroid forums come up on the first page for that google search. Thats an example how this topic is leading internet message boards in educating men about TRT. This thread is responsible for me identifying that I had an issue with my testosterone levels. This one thread has helped probably thousands of men in some form or another. Including revolutionizing some of their lives. Thats pretty good for a bunch of idiots on a gun board. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By killswitch:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
And another reason I respond is because their are other newer guys who read this. They don't have the time vested we do. They read something on here and take it to heart. There's a whole world of information on this subject outside of arfcom. When I search google for "diatomacious earth to lower hematocrit levels" what link do you think comes up? This thread. None of the steroid forums come up on the first page for that google search. Thats an example how this topic is leading internet message boards in educating men about TRT. This thread is responsible for me identifying that I had an issue with my testosterone levels. This one thread has helped probably thousands of men in some form or another. Including revolutionizing some of their lives. Thats pretty good for a bunch of idiots on a gun board. I'm not disagreeing with you this place is full of knowledge. Never once said that. But, there is places outside of here with much more knowledge in a better organized fashion than a 300+ page constant discussion. Also ever considered the reason why the search for diatomaceous earth for hematocrit levels showed up here is because it's voodoo and maybe there are other and better methods to lower hematocrit levels? Eta... Sorry 180 page. I got it and I babe of the day thread confused. Must be my high testosterone levels that make me think that number. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/25/2015 7:29:39 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
I'm not disagreeing with you this place is full of knowledge. Never once said that. But, there is places outside of here with much more knowledge in a better organized fashion than a 300+ page constant discussion. Also ever considered the reason why the search for diatomaceous earth for hematocrit levels showed up here is because it's voodoo and maybe there are other and better methods to lower hematocrit levels? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By killswitch:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
And another reason I respond is because their are other newer guys who read this. They don't have the time vested we do. They read something on here and take it to heart. There's a whole world of information on this subject outside of arfcom. When I search google for "diatomacious earth to lower hematocrit levels" what link do you think comes up? This thread. None of the steroid forums come up on the first page for that google search. Thats an example how this topic is leading internet message boards in educating men about TRT. This thread is responsible for me identifying that I had an issue with my testosterone levels. This one thread has helped probably thousands of men in some form or another. Including revolutionizing some of their lives. Thats pretty good for a bunch of idiots on a gun board. I'm not disagreeing with you this place is full of knowledge. Never once said that. But, there is places outside of here with much more knowledge in a better organized fashion than a 300+ page constant discussion. Also ever considered the reason why the search for diatomaceous earth for hematocrit levels showed up here is because it's voodoo and maybe there are other and better methods to lower hematocrit levels? And it might be. Thats why Im testing it to find out. But Im not aware of tons of great methods for dealing with hematocrit levels. If you ask your Dr, they want you to lower your dose till levels come in line. Or maybe they will say to give blood. You could try a low iron diet, but there goes all your meat. |
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Posted: 10/25/2015 7:30:03 PM EST
[#4]
So we've come to the consensus that the 900-1100 (person depending) is the sweet spot. Anyone ever considered what the numbers of a high school kid is? Ever wonder what the igf1 levels of a 13-15 year old kid is? It's alot higher than what we are aiming for using drugs to get there.
And I don't recall always feeling bad in high school. In fact, I had more energy and more random boners during those glorious years of high school than I have using testosterone. |
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Posted: 10/25/2015 7:33:30 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By killswitch:
And it might be. Thats why Im testing it to find out. But Im not aware of tons of great methods for dealing with hematocrit levels. If you ask your Dr, they want you to lower your dose till levels come in line. Or maybe they will say to give blood. You could try a low iron diet, but there goes all your meat. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By killswitch:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By killswitch:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
And another reason I respond is because their are other newer guys who read this. They don't have the time vested we do. They read something on here and take it to heart. There's a whole world of information on this subject outside of arfcom. When I search google for "diatomacious earth to lower hematocrit levels" what link do you think comes up? This thread. None of the steroid forums come up on the first page for that google search. Thats an example how this topic is leading internet message boards in educating men about TRT. This thread is responsible for me identifying that I had an issue with my testosterone levels. This one thread has helped probably thousands of men in some form or another. Including revolutionizing some of their lives. Thats pretty good for a bunch of idiots on a gun board. I'm not disagreeing with you this place is full of knowledge. Never once said that. But, there is places outside of here with much more knowledge in a better organized fashion than a 300+ page constant discussion. Also ever considered the reason why the search for diatomaceous earth for hematocrit levels showed up here is because it's voodoo and maybe there are other and better methods to lower hematocrit levels? And it might be. Thats why Im testing it to find out. But Im not aware of tons of great methods for dealing with hematocrit levels. If you ask your Dr, they want you to lower your dose till levels come in line. Or maybe they will say to give blood. You could try a low iron diet, but there goes all your meat. My doctor was kind of worried about my creatine/bun ratio and my cholesterol. Then I told her what I eat. She says well no wonder.... I'm eating healthy and a protein induced diet. As far as hematocrit levels, donating blood is the best way. |
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Posted: 10/25/2015 7:42:19 PM EST
[#6]
http://m.redcrossblood.org/donating-blood/types-donations/platelets
This great for guys who make too many red blood cells but get low on iron due to frequent donations. The process does return RBC but it actually wrecks most of them. The iron stays there but the cells have to be repaired and regenerated. |
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Posted: 10/25/2015 7:50:34 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By killswitch:
Steroids are serious shit, boss. Thats the basis for the blast and cruise. Otherwise why not just blast all the time? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By killswitch:
Originally Posted By BASE:
Where the hell is this BS coming from? Damaging organs and ED from having too much T? Mismanaging E2 and hematocrit maybe, but that's not the same as having a high T level. I've never heard of anyone damaging organs from maintaining high T, and I know a shitload of guys that haven't seen levels as low as yours in 20-30 years. If there is some mechanism that could be described to me that would result in damage or ED from having high T in the absence of some out of range E2 or hematocrit, I'd really love to hear about it. I don't want to get out of bed when I'm below 1000. I sure as hell don't want to chase the old lady around with those levels. I'm glad I have a doc that thinks nothing of 250-300/week. I also have stacks of bloodwork I've done over the years that show I'm only getting more healthy. Pre-diabetes is gone, liver and kidney functions are still improving (they were never out of range), and my lipid profile has even improved. Steroids are serious shit, boss. Thats the basis for the blast and cruise. Otherwise why not just blast all the time? One mans blast is another mans cruise 
But yes, you better know what your doing if you are going to cruise at 400/week. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/25/2015 7:55:33 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BASE:
http://m.redcrossblood.org/donating-blood/types-donations/platelets This great for guys who make too many red blood cells but get low on iron due to frequent donations. The process does return RBC but it actually wrecks most of them. The iron stays there but the cells have to be repaired and regenerated. They will only take certain blood types. And dont tell them why you are really there or they will refuse to allow you to donate. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/25/2015 8:00:12 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
My doctor was kind of worried about my creatine/bun ratio and my cholesterol. Then I told her what I eat. She says well no wonder.... I'm eating healthy and a protein induced diet. As far as hematocrit levels, donating blood is the best way. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By killswitch:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By killswitch:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
And another reason I respond is because their are other newer guys who read this. They don't have the time vested we do. They read something on here and take it to heart. There's a whole world of information on this subject outside of arfcom. When I search google for "diatomacious earth to lower hematocrit levels" what link do you think comes up? This thread. None of the steroid forums come up on the first page for that google search. Thats an example how this topic is leading internet message boards in educating men about TRT. This thread is responsible for me identifying that I had an issue with my testosterone levels. This one thread has helped probably thousands of men in some form or another. Including revolutionizing some of their lives. Thats pretty good for a bunch of idiots on a gun board. I'm not disagreeing with you this place is full of knowledge. Never once said that. But, there is places outside of here with much more knowledge in a better organized fashion than a 300+ page constant discussion. Also ever considered the reason why the search for diatomaceous earth for hematocrit levels showed up here is because it's voodoo and maybe there are other and better methods to lower hematocrit levels? And it might be. Thats why Im testing it to find out. But Im not aware of tons of great methods for dealing with hematocrit levels. If you ask your Dr, they want you to lower your dose till levels come in line. Or maybe they will say to give blood. You could try a low iron diet, but there goes all your meat. My doctor was kind of worried about my creatine/bun ratio and my cholesterol. Then I told her what I eat. She says well no wonder.... I'm eating healthy and a protein induced diet. As far as hematocrit levels, donating blood is the best way. There is debate over how long your hematocrit levels are lowered for following the standard donation intervals. Some say a few days, weeks, or maybe a month. I calculate Id need to donate two pints a month to stay at the range I want to be at, all things considered. No way to do that at the blood bank. Now what? Home phlebotomy? |
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Posted: 10/25/2015 8:10:12 PM EST
[#10]
I believe swire or EXPY is the one to talk to about home phlebotomy. I can't remember which one does it.
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Posted: 10/25/2015 8:12:53 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By killswitch:
When I search google for "diatomacious earth to lower hematocrit levels" what link do you think comes up? This thread. None of the steroid forums come up on the first page for that google search. Thats an example how this topic is leading internet message boards in educating men about TRT. This thread is responsible for me identifying that I had an issue with my testosterone levels. This one thread has helped probably thousands of men in some form or another. Including revolutionizing some of their lives. Thats pretty good for a bunch of idiots on a gun board. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By killswitch:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
And another reason I respond is because their are other newer guys who read this. They don't have the time vested we do. They read something on here and take it to heart. There's a whole world of information on this subject outside of arfcom. When I search google for "diatomacious earth to lower hematocrit levels" what link do you think comes up? This thread. None of the steroid forums come up on the first page for that google search. Thats an example how this topic is leading internet message boards in educating men about TRT. This thread is responsible for me identifying that I had an issue with my testosterone levels. This one thread has helped probably thousands of men in some form or another. Including revolutionizing some of their lives. Thats pretty good for a bunch of idiots on a gun board. This thread got me started years ago... 
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Posted: 10/25/2015 8:13:03 PM EST
[#12]
I've never heard of anyone who is just on TRT that couldn't get by with donating every couple months. A rare few will get into the low iron/high RBC conundrum.
Have you just tried it? I've had a endo tell me some crazy shit about how long the RBC's would hang around after a cycle and how little the donation would help. He was really, really off. 3 donations a year is plenty for me with my admittedly high dose. I'd just try it and see. |
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Posted: 10/25/2015 8:15:45 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
My doctor was kind of worried about my creatine/bun ratio and my cholesterol. Then I told her what I eat. She says well no wonder.... I'm eating healthy and a protein induced diet. As far as hematocrit levels, donating blood is the best way. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By killswitch:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By killswitch:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
And another reason I respond is because their are other newer guys who read this. They don't have the time vested we do. They read something on here and take it to heart. There's a whole world of information on this subject outside of arfcom. When I search google for "diatomacious earth to lower hematocrit levels" what link do you think comes up? This thread. None of the steroid forums come up on the first page for that google search. Thats an example how this topic is leading internet message boards in educating men about TRT. This thread is responsible for me identifying that I had an issue with my testosterone levels. This one thread has helped probably thousands of men in some form or another. Including revolutionizing some of their lives. Thats pretty good for a bunch of idiots on a gun board. I'm not disagreeing with you this place is full of knowledge. Never once said that. But, there is places outside of here with much more knowledge in a better organized fashion than a 300+ page constant discussion. Also ever considered the reason why the search for diatomaceous earth for hematocrit levels showed up here is because it's voodoo and maybe there are other and better methods to lower hematocrit levels? And it might be. Thats why Im testing it to find out. But Im not aware of tons of great methods for dealing with hematocrit levels. If you ask your Dr, they want you to lower your dose till levels come in line. Or maybe they will say to give blood. You could try a low iron diet, but there goes all your meat. My doctor was kind of worried about my creatine/bun ratio and my cholesterol. Then I told her what I eat. She says well no wonder.... I'm eating healthy and a protein induced diet. As far as hematocrit levels, donating blood is the best way. Meh, if you can't do a self-phlebotomy... You haven't arrived... 
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USA
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Posted: 10/25/2015 8:24:58 PM EST
[#14]
Hey guys. So here's my deal. 35 years old. Feel tired all the time, like sit down and take a nap all day tired. My wife thinks I don't find her attractive any more. I've had two tests recently and both were below 300 for testosterone. I'm going to a urologist next week. I'm not sure what my options will be because I'm still active duty military. I have my blood work results but I don't know what it all means. I've been losing weight lately but it is muscle mass. Any way very depressed about this whole thing. Any body deal with this while still in the military?
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Posted: 10/25/2015 8:28:50 PM EST
[#15]
]Originally Posted By EXPY37:[/b]
I was wondering when your ass was going to chime in. Get done with your solar panels old man? |
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Posted: 10/25/2015 8:52:43 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CTOWN5: Hey guys. So here's my deal. 35 years old. Feel tired all the time, like sit down and take a nap all day tired. My wife thinks I don't find her attractive any more. I've had two tests recently and both were below 300 for testosterone. I'm going to a urologist next week. I'm not sure what my options will be because I'm still active duty military. I have my blood work results but I don't know what it all means. I've been losing weight lately but it is muscle mass. Any way very depressed about this whole thing. Any body deal with this while still in the military? I've not and don't know of any personally but I was reading a thread on another forum earlier from a guy that was being treated for it through the VA so I would assume you could still. Seems proper treatment and levels would be considered a bonus in that environment. If they won't though there are other options if need be. What all did you have checked in your lab work? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/25/2015 9:06:00 PM EST
[#17]
Anyone from Dallas being treated that can recommend a Clinic or Dr?
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/25/2015 9:13:03 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BASE:
I've never heard of anyone who is just on TRT that couldn't get by with donating every couple months. A rare few will get into the low iron/high RBC conundrum. Have you just tried it? I've had a endo tell me some crazy shit about how long the RBC's would hang around after a cycle and how little the donation would help. He was really, really off. 3 donations a year is plenty for me with my admittedly high dose. I'd just try it and see. Last labs I came up high at ~53%. Complete with some red face and headaches. This is not on a crazy dose, but a bit high. I did one donation and have a second one coming up before next labs. SO hopefully the two of them will be sufficient. I suspect a herb Im taking might be raising my RBC count by ~6%. Which could be enough to put me over the line. I hadnt given blood for a long time before the high lab results. So maybe continuous donations will do it. I think I have a propensity for thick blood. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/25/2015 9:40:50 PM EST
[#19]
I got a lot of blood drawn. There is a bunch of different things but the main things say
Thyroid. Lipids+Glucose. CBC. There are a bunch of results under each of those. Maybe if I figure out how to post a picture it would make more sense. |
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Posted: 10/25/2015 10:15:41 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CTOWN5:
I got a lot of blood drawn. There is a bunch of different things but the main things say Thyroid. Lipids+Glucose. CBC. There are a bunch of results under each of those. Maybe if I figure out how to post a picture it would make more sense. Take a screen shot. Upload to photobucket. Copy img link. Come back to arfcom and hit the 4th button from the right in the row of icons below reply box. Erase the http and paste you're images. |
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Posted: 10/25/2015 10:36:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: EXPY37]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
]Originally Posted By EXPY37:[/b] I was wondering when your ass was going to chime in. Get done with your solar panels old man? Had to relocate one closest [lower bank, so that meant hanging off a rope again] to the group of 4 original ones today/night. 
A shadow from the west most panel of the original group of 4 was drastically lowering the output of the lower new group until abt 10:45AM It would have gotten worse as we go toward Dec 22. So I just got it dun. Thanks for asking! Also, put 3 more in parallel with the original 3 on the shipping container we live in int the mtns, in the past week. So now we have TONS of juice!
That's a total of 12 added in the past month, incl fab'ing the mounts and wiring, rewiring both systems, etc. There'll be more info in the topic in the SF. |
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Posted: 10/25/2015 10:36:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: EXPY37]
[#22]
Danged Win update...
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Posted: 10/25/2015 10:36:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: EXPY37]
[#23]
Danged Windoz
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Posted: 10/26/2015 12:20:30 AM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By killswitch:
When I search google for "diatomacious earth to lower hematocrit levels" what link do you think comes up? This thread. None of the steroid forums come up on the first page for that google search. Thats an example how this topic is leading internet message boards in educating men about TRT. This thread is responsible for me identifying that I had an issue with my testosterone levels. This one thread has helped probably thousands of men in some form or another. Including revolutionizing some of their lives. Thats pretty good for a bunch of idiots on a gun board. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By killswitch:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
And another reason I respond is because their are other newer guys who read this. They don't have the time vested we do. They read something on here and take it to heart. There's a whole world of information on this subject outside of arfcom. When I search google for "diatomacious earth to lower hematocrit levels" what link do you think comes up? This thread. None of the steroid forums come up on the first page for that google search. Thats an example how this topic is leading internet message boards in educating men about TRT. This thread is responsible for me identifying that I had an issue with my testosterone levels. This one thread has helped probably thousands of men in some form or another. Including revolutionizing some of their lives. Thats pretty good for a bunch of idiots on a gun board. saving the world, one injection at a time..... now to go back and figure out SubQ injections. I'm doing IM injections, but even at a relatively high test rate, I still don't feel much different. I was around 800 last test, my PA wants to back it down a bit, but I feel better a little higher. I have skipped weeks and then doubled and feel a lot more normal when I do that. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/26/2015 2:26:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: killswitch]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crashburnrepeat:
saving the world, one injection at a time..... now to go back and figure out SubQ injections. I'm doing IM injections, but even at a relatively high test rate, I still don't feel much different. I was around 800 last test, my PA wants to back it down a bit, but I feel better a little higher. I have skipped weeks and then doubled and feel a lot more normal when I do that. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crashburnrepeat:
Originally Posted By killswitch:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
And another reason I respond is because their are other newer guys who read this. They don't have the time vested we do. They read something on here and take it to heart. There's a whole world of information on this subject outside of arfcom. When I search google for "diatomacious earth to lower hematocrit levels" what link do you think comes up? This thread. None of the steroid forums come up on the first page for that google search. Thats an example how this topic is leading internet message boards in educating men about TRT. This thread is responsible for me identifying that I had an issue with my testosterone levels. This one thread has helped probably thousands of men in some form or another. Including revolutionizing some of their lives. Thats pretty good for a bunch of idiots on a gun board. saving the world, one injection at a time..... now to go back and figure out SubQ injections. I'm doing IM injections, but even at a relatively high test rate, I still don't feel much different. I was around 800 last test, my PA wants to back it down a bit, but I feel better a little higher. I have skipped weeks and then doubled and feel a lot more normal when I do that. Yeah 700 total T is about the max DR's usually want you at. If you are over 300 - 400 many wont even treat you since you are technically in range. Ive had them tell me 400 is good dont take anything more. Doesnt matter how you feel to most of them. They are very concerned with the side effects. Total T is basically a worthless number also. Free T is what really matters. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/26/2015 4:23:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: powder007]
[#26]
I donate blood every 4 months and i'm usually at 45-50% when i go in.
It was a weird weekend for me. Set up a new hcg vial friday (new brand too) and did my 50mg. Felt really strange at the injection site like 30 mins later, like i was bloated. Almost like i'd just shot myself up with air or something. It was weird. It went away after a couple hours but it's never happened before. Then Saturday i was at a low point. Couldn't figure out what the deal was, i was dragging, low libido, dick was scrunched, not hanging like usual, so i said, i'm high on E2 and took .25mg anastrozole. This morning i went and hunted for 4 hours, got home expecting to just jump in bed with the wife but i had zero desire to get it on. When we jumped in the sack at the end of the day, we started going and i lost it about 5 minutes in. Got it back up and finished but that hasn't happened to me since i went on continuous hcg. I dunno what gives. I might go do a lab in the morning. I was going to start SQ Monday morning but now thinking i should wait til next week. |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 10:56:04 AM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk: So we've come to the consensus that the 900-1100 (person depending) is the sweet spot. Anyone ever considered what the numbers of a high school kid is? Ever wonder what the igf1 levels of a 13-15 year old kid is? It's alot higher than what we are aiming for using drugs to get there. And I don't recall always feeling bad in high school. In fact, I had more energy and more random boners during those glorious years of high school than I have using testosterone. There are a lot of other factors involved when we start to age, that voodoo science of diatomaceous earth? It replaces the silica in your body Foods no longer contain enough. It pulls excess iron from the blood It pulls parasites from your body, and it pulls any heavy metals out too. The earth food is grown in now only contains 15 to 30 % of the silica our bodies need, thats your arteries and veins, hair & nails , the heart walls. I have been taking DE for a week today, BP is down around 10 pts so far, glucose is down around 10 pts too. I haven't changed anything in my diet. The body needs the high level of T to get you trough puberty, then it still stays pretty high as we are supposed to be procreating, hence horny Teenagers, then it starts to drop off gradually as we age, there is a point where is drops to low for most men. For most guys aging they don't need 1100 or 1500 levels of T I'd like to know how you feel at 800 ? You feel better at 1200 to 1500? When my T was 1500 I was shaky like I had 12 cups of coffee , for a few days until my T came down, slept maybe 4 hours. I wonder running levels really high has an effort on your adrenals ? "So we've come to the consensus that the 900-1100" Maybe but I think I get the same effect of overall well being and everything else working like I was in HS at around 700 to 800 |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 10:58:47 AM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BASE: One mans blast is another mans cruise But yes, you better know what your doing if you are going to cruise at 400/week. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BASE: Originally Posted By killswitch: Originally Posted By BASE: Where the hell is this BS coming from? Damaging organs and ED from having too much T? Mismanaging E2 and hematocrit maybe, but that's not the same as having a high T level. I've never heard of anyone damaging organs from maintaining high T, and I know a shitload of guys that haven't seen levels as low as yours in 20-30 years. If there is some mechanism that could be described to me that would result in damage or ED from having high T in the absence of some out of range E2 or hematocrit, I'd really love to hear about it. I don't want to get out of bed when I'm below 1000. I sure as hell don't want to chase the old lady around with those levels. I'm glad I have a doc that thinks nothing of 250-300/week. I also have stacks of bloodwork I've done over the years that show I'm only getting more healthy. Pre-diabetes is gone, liver and kidney functions are still improving (they were never out of range), and my lipid profile has even improved. Steroids are serious shit, boss. Thats the basis for the blast and cruise. Otherwise why not just blast all the time? One mans blast is another mans cruise But yes, you better know what your doing if you are going to cruise at 400/week. It's guys who don't know how to manage E2 & hematocrit that are at risk of damaging organs |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 11:04:42 AM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BASE: I've never heard of anyone who is just on TRT that couldn't get by with donating every couple months. A rare few will get into the low iron/high RBC conundrum. Have you just tried it? I've had a endo tell me some crazy shit about how long the RBC's would hang around after a cycle and how little the donation would help. He was really, really off. 3 donations a year is plenty for me with my admittedly high dose. I'd just try it and see. Once before when I gave blood earlier in my T treatment my Hematocrit was 51, pulled blood work 2 weeks later it was 46. That last time I gave blood hematocrit rose pretty fast. I attribute this to using a higher dose of T now. Cutting back like I said to see what effect it has . |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 11:12:33 AM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrzy: This is from T Nation 100 mg. a week would probably take you between 700 and 900 ng/dl 200 would bring you up between 1200 and 1500 300 would take you above 2,000 total T When everyone is talking about dosage. When they say "I am injecting 100mg of test C a week" If the Test C they have is 200 Mg per Ml , then a half ml would be 100 Mg correct? |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 11:17:14 AM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrzy:
can someone address this? When everyone is talking about dosage. When they say "I am injecting 100mg of test C a week" If the Test C they have is 200 Mg per Ml , then a half ml would be 100 Mg correct? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
This is from T Nation 100 mg. a week would probably take you between 700 and 900 ng/dl 200 would bring you up between 1200 and 1500 300 would take you above 2,000 total T When everyone is talking about dosage. When they say "I am injecting 100mg of test C a week" If the Test C they have is 200 Mg per Ml , then a half ml would be 100 Mg correct? Yep. Is that chart talking about peak numbers or trough number? There's no way in hell I would get to a 700 trough reading on 100/week. |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 11:26:09 AM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BASE: Yep. Is that chart talking about peak numbers or trough number? There's no way in hell I would get to a 700 trough reading on 100/week. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BASE: Originally Posted By jrzy: Originally Posted By jrzy: This is from T Nation 100 mg. a week would probably take you between 700 and 900 ng/dl 200 would bring you up between 1200 and 1500 300 would take you above 2,000 total T When everyone is talking about dosage. When they say "I am injecting 100mg of test C a week" If the Test C they have is 200 Mg per Ml , then a half ml would be 100 Mg correct? Yep. Is that chart talking about peak numbers or trough number? There's no way in hell I would get to a 700 trough reading on 100/week. What do you use per week? I am currently doing 200 mg per week split into twice per week and I am pretty sure it's to high for me |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 11:52:39 AM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrzy:
Probably peak but it did not specify What do you use per week? I am currently doing 200 mg per week split into twice per week and I am pretty sure it's to high for me Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By BASE:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
This is from T Nation 100 mg. a week would probably take you between 700 and 900 ng/dl 200 would bring you up between 1200 and 1500 300 would take you above 2,000 total T When everyone is talking about dosage. When they say "I am injecting 100mg of test C a week" If the Test C they have is 200 Mg per Ml , then a half ml would be 100 Mg correct? Yep. Is that chart talking about peak numbers or trough number? There's no way in hell I would get to a 700 trough reading on 100/week. What do you use per week? I am currently doing 200 mg per week split into twice per week and I am pretty sure it's to high for me I just switched doc's a while back, so going through process of convincing him I really need what I need. He had me at 200/week for about 4 months. No elevated HCT or AI needed and my TT levels never got above 800. He actually recommended trying 250/week, so that's where I've been for the last few months...puts me right at or slightly over 1000. I have been on prescribed doses of up to 400/week in the past though. I really feel like 300 is where I like to be, beyond that the benefits aren't really there and HCT starts creeping up on me. |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 12:53:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2tired2run]
[#34]
I am in the same boat as others, when I was doing 120mg per week + HCG. I just didn't feel right. My numbers were over 1100 in the trough. I eventually dropped it down to 80mg per week + HCG. That was all before my old doc's failed clomid trial last year.
I'm now back 100mg of T per and getting ready to start adding HCG back. I'm hoping to get it all dialed in, in the next month or 2. My HCT levels stay up in the higher end of the range but I saw little benefit from donations and because it dropped my blood pressure so low, I'd feel like crap. Originally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
So we've come to the consensus that the 900-1100 (person depending) is the sweet spot. Anyone ever considered what the numbers of a high school kid is? Ever wonder what the igf1 levels of a 13-15 year old kid is? It's alot higher than what we are aiming for using drugs to get there. And I don't recall always feeling bad in high school. In fact, I had more energy and more random boners during those glorious years of high school than I have using testosterone. There are a lot of other factors involved when we start to age, that voodoo science of diatomaceous earth? It replaces the silica in your body Foods no longer contain enough. It pulls excess iron from the blood It pulls parasites from your body, and it pulls any heavy metals out too. The earth food is grown in now only contains 15 to 30 % of the silica our bodies need, thats your arteries and veins, hair & nails , the heart walls. I have been taking DE for a week today, BP is down around 10 pts so far, glucose is down around 10 pts too. I haven't changed anything in my diet. The body needs the high level of T to get you trough puberty, then it still stays pretty high as we are supposed to be procreating, hence horny Teenagers, then it starts to drop off gradually as we age, there is a point where is drops to low for most men. For most guys aging they don't need 1100 or 1500 levels of T I'd like to know how you feel at 800 ? You feel better at 1200 to 1500? When my T was 1500 I was shaky like I had 12 cups of coffee , for a few days until my T came down, slept maybe 4 hours. I wonder running levels really high has an effort on your adrenals ? "So we've come to the consensus that the 900-1100" Maybe but I think I get the same effect of overall well being and everything else working like I was in HS at around 700 to 800 This is really interesting to me. How much DE are you taking? There is some evidence starting to show that processed foods etc are harmful. I found this article interesting. https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/is-gut-bacteria-making-you-fat |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 1:21:49 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2tired2run: I am in the same boat as others, when I was doing 120mg per week + HCG. I just didn't feel right. My numbers were over 1100 in the trough. I eventually dropped it down to 80mg per week + HCG. That was all before my old doc's failed clomid trial last year. I'm now back 100mg of T per and getting ready to start adding HCG back. I'm hoping to get it all dialed in, in the next month or 2. My HCT levels stay up in the higher end of the range but I saw little benefit from donations and because it dropped my blood pressure so low, I'd feel like crap. This is really interesting to me. How much DE are you taking? There is some evidence starting to show that processed foods etc are harmful. I found this article interesting. https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/is-gut-bacteria-making-you-fat Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2tired2run: I am in the same boat as others, when I was doing 120mg per week + HCG. I just didn't feel right. My numbers were over 1100 in the trough. I eventually dropped it down to 80mg per week + HCG. That was all before my old doc's failed clomid trial last year. I'm now back 100mg of T per and getting ready to start adding HCG back. I'm hoping to get it all dialed in, in the next month or 2. My HCT levels stay up in the higher end of the range but I saw little benefit from donations and because it dropped my blood pressure so low, I'd feel like crap. Originally Posted By jrzy: Originally Posted By pumbaajk: So we've come to the consensus that the 900-1100 (person depending) is the sweet spot. Anyone ever considered what the numbers of a high school kid is? Ever wonder what the igf1 levels of a 13-15 year old kid is? It's alot higher than what we are aiming for using drugs to get there. And I don't recall always feeling bad in high school. In fact, I had more energy and more random boners during those glorious years of high school than I have using testosterone. There are a lot of other factors involved when we start to age, that voodoo science of diatomaceous earth? It replaces the silica in your body Foods no longer contain enough. It pulls excess iron from the blood It pulls parasites from your body, and it pulls any heavy metals out too. The earth food is grown in now only contains 15 to 30 % of the silica our bodies need, thats your arteries and veins, hair & nails , the heart walls. I have been taking DE for a week today, BP is down around 10 pts so far, glucose is down around 10 pts too. I haven't changed anything in my diet. The body needs the high level of T to get you trough puberty, then it still stays pretty high as we are supposed to be procreating, hence horny Teenagers, then it starts to drop off gradually as we age, there is a point where is drops to low for most men. For most guys aging they don't need 1100 or 1500 levels of T I'd like to know how you feel at 800 ? You feel better at 1200 to 1500? When my T was 1500 I was shaky like I had 12 cups of coffee , for a few days until my T came down, slept maybe 4 hours. I wonder running levels really high has an effort on your adrenals ? "So we've come to the consensus that the 900-1100" Maybe but I think I get the same effect of overall well being and everything else working like I was in HS at around 700 to 800 This is really interesting to me. How much DE are you taking? There is some evidence starting to show that processed foods etc are harmful. I found this article interesting. https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/is-gut-bacteria-making-you-fat Second week is one tea spoon morning and one before dinner |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 1:22:10 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2tired2run: I am in the same boat as others, when I was doing 120mg per week + HCG. I just didn't feel right. My numbers were over 1100 in the trough. I eventually dropped it down to 80mg per week + HCG. That was all before my old doc's failed clomid trial last year. I'm now back 100mg of T per and getting ready to start adding HCG back. I'm hoping to get it all dialed in, in the next month or 2. My HCT levels stay up in the higher end of the range but I saw little benefit from donations and because it dropped my blood pressure so low, I'd feel like crap. This is really interesting to me. How much DE are you taking? There is some evidence starting to show that processed foods etc are harmful. I found this article interesting. https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/is-gut-bacteria-making-you-fat Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2tired2run: I am in the same boat as others, when I was doing 120mg per week + HCG. I just didn't feel right. My numbers were over 1100 in the trough. I eventually dropped it down to 80mg per week + HCG. That was all before my old doc's failed clomid trial last year. I'm now back 100mg of T per and getting ready to start adding HCG back. I'm hoping to get it all dialed in, in the next month or 2. My HCT levels stay up in the higher end of the range but I saw little benefit from donations and because it dropped my blood pressure so low, I'd feel like crap. Originally Posted By jrzy: Originally Posted By pumbaajk: So we've come to the consensus that the 900-1100 (person depending) is the sweet spot. Anyone ever considered what the numbers of a high school kid is? Ever wonder what the igf1 levels of a 13-15 year old kid is? It's alot higher than what we are aiming for using drugs to get there. And I don't recall always feeling bad in high school. In fact, I had more energy and more random boners during those glorious years of high school than I have using testosterone. There are a lot of other factors involved when we start to age, that voodoo science of diatomaceous earth? It replaces the silica in your body Foods no longer contain enough. It pulls excess iron from the blood It pulls parasites from your body, and it pulls any heavy metals out too. The earth food is grown in now only contains 15 to 30 % of the silica our bodies need, thats your arteries and veins, hair & nails , the heart walls. I have been taking DE for a week today, BP is down around 10 pts so far, glucose is down around 10 pts too. I haven't changed anything in my diet. The body needs the high level of T to get you trough puberty, then it still stays pretty high as we are supposed to be procreating, hence horny Teenagers, then it starts to drop off gradually as we age, there is a point where is drops to low for most men. For most guys aging they don't need 1100 or 1500 levels of T I'd like to know how you feel at 800 ? You feel better at 1200 to 1500? When my T was 1500 I was shaky like I had 12 cups of coffee , for a few days until my T came down, slept maybe 4 hours. I wonder running levels really high has an effort on your adrenals ? "So we've come to the consensus that the 900-1100" Maybe but I think I get the same effect of overall well being and everything else working like I was in HS at around 700 to 800 This is really interesting to me. How much DE are you taking? There is some evidence starting to show that processed foods etc are harmful. I found this article interesting. https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/is-gut-bacteria-making-you-fat You feel better at 100 mg per week? |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 1:57:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2tired2run]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrzy:
You feel better at 100 mg per week? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By 2tired2run:
I am in the same boat as others, when I was doing 120mg per week + HCG. I just didn't feel right. My numbers were over 1100 in the trough. I eventually dropped it down to 80mg per week + HCG. That was all before my old doc's failed clomid trial last year. I'm now back 100mg of T per and getting ready to start adding HCG back. I'm hoping to get it all dialed in, in the next month or 2. My HCT levels stay up in the higher end of the range but I saw little benefit from donations and because it dropped my blood pressure so low, I'd feel like crap. You feel better at 100 mg per week? I do and I know that when I add in the HCG it will boost my T numbers so I may or may not have to reduce that. At 100mg's per week I'm in the 7-800's at the trough. Edit: too many nested quotes |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 3:56:33 PM EST
[#38]
Anyone taking DHEA? It help at all?
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Posted: 10/26/2015 4:18:03 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Anyone taking DHEA? It help at all? DHEA changed my life when the FDA first allowed it as a 'Food Supplement" about 1997. |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 5:04:53 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Anyone taking DHEA? It help at all? My doc recommended it before adding in T shots. Did nothing for me. |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 5:48:25 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Anyone taking DHEA? It help at all? it caused my dhea numbers to shoot way up and I was losing a lot of hair. I dropped it fast. |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 5:59:59 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrzy: can someone address this? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrzy: Originally Posted By jrzy: This is from T Nation 100 mg. a week would probably take you between 700 and 900 ng/dl 200 would bring you up between 1200 and 1500 300 would take you above 2,000 total T |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 6:39:25 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By medicmandan:
My doc recommended it before adding in T shots. Did nothing for me. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By medicmandan:
Originally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Anyone taking DHEA? It help at all? My doc recommended it before adding in T shots. Did nothing for me. Were you taking it with anything else, or just by itself? |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 6:41:22 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By moonjumper:
Person specific due to metabolism rates. I have a friend that 200 mg a week only puts him at just a little above 400 ng/ml. 250 a week puts me at 1100 7 days after the shot. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By moonjumper:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
This is from T Nation 100 mg. a week would probably take you between 700 and 900 ng/dl 200 would bring you up between 1200 and 1500 300 would take you above 2,000 total T That's the truth. I really envy the guys that feel great on 100/week. I guess levels and feels are 2 different things too, but both seem to vary quite a bit from guy to guy. |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 6:42:51 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Were you taking it with anything else, or just by itself? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Originally Posted By medicmandan:
Originally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Anyone taking DHEA? It help at all? My doc recommended it before adding in T shots. Did nothing for me. Were you taking it with anything else, or just by itself? By itself. My PCP was not very up to speed on T issues. He recommended plenty of sleep, exercise and some DHEA to up my T (from 180). |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 6:48:34 PM EST
[#46]
I always thought DHEA was something your nuts make that you would substitute in lieu of HCG. This is being used to raise T levels?
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Posted: 10/26/2015 7:00:31 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BASE:
I always thought DHEA was something your nuts make that you would substitute in lieu of HCG. This is being used to raise T levels? DHEA is being used with HCG and Armor Thyro to see if my T levels will raise some. |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 7:06:57 PM EST
[#48]
Interesting. Now I have something to google while I'm supposed to be working tomorrow.
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Posted: 10/26/2015 7:12:14 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By moonjumper: Person specific due to metabolism rates. I have a friend that 200 mg a week only puts him at just a little above 400 ng/ml. 250 a week puts me at 1100 7 days after the shot. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By moonjumper: Originally Posted By jrzy: Originally Posted By jrzy: This is from T Nation 100 mg. a week would probably take you between 700 and 900 ng/dl 200 would bring you up between 1200 and 1500 300 would take you above 2,000 total T |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 8:47:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: moonjumper]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrzy: OK so you are probably at 1800 or more the day after a shot, how do you feel at that level? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrzy: Originally Posted By moonjumper: Originally Posted By jrzy: Originally Posted By jrzy: This is from T Nation 100 mg. a week would probably take you between 700 and 900 ng/dl 200 would bring you up between 1200 and 1500 300 would take you above 2,000 total T I was high on e2 prior to therapy so now is just finding the right balance of a-dex to get everything to the sweet spot with it. For labs I reverted to a single shot of a full cc of test but I inject myself so I typically do a half cc 2x a week instead to further try to minimize the e conversion. |
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