M4 Scout Rifle Concept - Page 1

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - M4 Scout Rifle Concept (Page 1 of 3)

Posted: 3/8/2015 4:39:20 PM EDT

I am a fan of Col. Cooper's Scout Rifle Concept and I finally broke down and bought a premium (for me) AR from Daniel Defense. So I decided to make it into a scout concept for my recce rifle:

it weighs 8lbs exactly unloaded with magazine. It has a Leupold 1.6-4.8x firedot scout scope which functions similar to a red dot but can also function well without batteries. 45 degree rapid transition BUIS, A streamlight TLR-2 HL tactical light / laser. An IMI forward pistol grip with compartment, and a para-cord survival sling. The sling is not a ching sling or any other sort of fancy sling but it is the correct length for me to let me use my front forearm as a brace for stability. It's kind of jury-rigged with paracord in the back attachment point but, hey, it works.

I really like the Leupold scope. It turns on when you pick up the rifle and turns off when it senses no activity. The dot is extremely bright and very small.

It eats all ammo and I intend to feed it some premium 62 gr. JSP as soon as I can get over the premium prices for this loading :(

You don't see many threads on using an AR as a scout rifle but for me it seems natural. Here is one I found in the archives:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/535047_.html

Here is also a good discussion on the merits of the scout rifle concept in view of today's firearms tech:

http://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/scout-rifle/

I think the firedot reticle and 1.6-4.8 zoom of the scope address much of the concerns. The balance point is just in fromt of the mag well.

Posted: 3/8/2015 10:58:26 AM EDT

[#1]

Are you sure you wanted to post this in the Reloading Forum?

Posted: 3/8/2015 11:12:15 AM EDT

[#2]

As I posted in the archived thread, "I built one with a Leupold 2.5 IER mounted forward on a ARMS extended rail. No, it didn't meet Cooper's definition. Yes, my wife loved it as her first deer rifle...light, handy, enough magnification for the Wisconsin woods, eye relief was non-critical. I've since sold it to a friend, who gave it to his niece for HER first deer rifle. I don't see a need to sneer at the concept. It worked very well."

Now I'd build it in 6.8 instead of .223, but 6.8 didn't exist then.

Posted: 3/8/2015 11:13:08 AM EDT

[#3]

I also think an Alexander Arms Hunter model in 6.5 Grendel would make a great scout rifle if it came with a full rail. It should weight about 6 oz. more than the DDM4 (I would lose the front pistol grip). I might inquire into this:

http://www.shopalexanderarms.com/Rifles-6_5_Grendel_Hunter_Complete_Rifle.html

It's not a .308as some have quibbled but, in a defense or survival situation either caliber is just fine. I'm in the east where we don't have grizzlies, moose and only a few elk. 99 % of the game will be deer-size or smaller. Hogs might be a problem for these calibers,

Posted: 3/8/2015 4:36:16 PM EDT

[#4]

This isn't reloading related at all. These being the first of your posts in two years, screams of trolling.

Posted: 3/8/2015 4:40:52 PM EDT

[#5]

Quote History

Quoted:
This isn't reloading related at all. These being the first of your posts in two years, screams of trolling.

View Quote

Not only that, but...NO just no to that monstrosity

Posted: 3/8/2015 4:46:01 PM EDT

[#6]

Everything about your post is retarded.

Posted: 3/8/2015 4:48:29 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

I am a fan of Col. Cooper's Scout Rifle Concept and I finally broke down and bought a premium (for me) AR from Daniel Defense. So I decided to make it into a scout concept for my recce rifle:

http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s596/SharpD0g/unnamed1_zpsee736fb4.jpg

it weighs 8lbs exactly unloaded with magazine. It has a Leupold 1.6-4.8x firedot scout scope which functions similar to a red dot but can also function well without batteries. 45 degree rapid transition BUIS, A streamlight TLR-2 HL tactical light / laser. An IMI forward pistol grip with compartment, and a para-cord survival sling. The sling is not a ching sling or any other sort of fancy sling but it is the correct length for me to let me use my front forearm as a brace for stability. It's kind of jury-rigged with paracord in the back attachment point but, hey, it works.

I really like the Leupold scope. It turns on when you pick up the rifle and turns off when it senses no activity. The dot is extremely bright and very small.

It eats all ammo and I intend to feed it some premium 62 gr. JSP as soon as I can get over the premium prices for this loading :(

You don't see many threads on using an AR as a scout rifle but for me it seems natural. Here is one I found in the archives:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/535047_.html

Here is also a good discussion on the merits of the scout rifle concept in view of today's firearms tech:

http://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/scout-rifle/

I think the firedot reticle and 1.6-4.8 zoom of the scope address much of the concerns. The balance point is just in fromt of the mag well.

View Quote

Posted: 3/8/2015 4:54:35 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
I also think an Alexander Arms Hunter model in 6.5 Grendel would make a great scout rifle if it came with a full rail. It should weight about 6 oz. more than the DDM4 (I would lose the front pistol grip). I might inquire into this:

http://www.shopalexanderarms.com/img-6.5%20Grendel%20Hunter%20rifle.jpg

http://www.shopalexanderarms.com/Rifles-6_5_Grendel_Hunter_Complete_Rifle.html

It's not a .308as some have quibbled but, in a defense or survival situation either caliber is just fine. I'm in the east where we don't have grizzlies, moose and only a few elk. 99 % of the game will be deer-size or smaller. Hogs might be a problem for these calibers,

View Quote

Hogs die every day to .223/5.56. Single shot kills

ETA: if I were a reloaded, 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPCII would be my hunting rifle.

Posted: 3/8/2015 4:55:35 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
I am a fan of Col. Cooper's Scout Rifle Concept and I finally broke down and bought a premium (for me) AR from Daniel Defense. So I decided to make it into a scout concept for my recce rifle:

http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s596/SharpD0g/unnamed1_zpsee736fb4.jpg

it weighs 8lbs exactly unloaded with magazine. It has a Leupold 1.6-4.8x firedot scout scope which functions similar to a red dot but can also function well without batteries. 45 degree rapid transition BUIS, A streamlight TLR-2 HL tactical light / laser. An IMI forward pistol grip with compartment, and a para-cord survival sling. The sling is not a ching sling or any other sort of fancy sling but it is the correct length for me to let me use my front forearm as a brace for stability. It's kind of jury-rigged with paracord in the back attachment point but, hey, it works.

I really like the Leupold scope. It turns on when you pick up the rifle and turns off when it senses no activity. The dot is extremely bright and very small.

It eats all ammo and I intend to feed it some premium 62 gr. JSP as soon as I can get over the premium prices for this loading :(

You don't see many threads on using an AR as a scout rifle but for me it seems natural. Here is one I found in the archives:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/535047_.html

Here is also a good discussion on the merits of the scout rifle concept in view of today's firearms tech:

http://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/scout-rifle/

I think the firedot reticle and 1.6-4.8 zoom of the scope address much of the concerns. The balance point is just in fromt of the mag well.

View Quote

Shoulda gone with a cantilevered mount, man.

Posted: 3/8/2015 4:55:41 PM EDT

[#10]

Gross/dumb/lame

Posted: 3/8/2015 4:57:37 PM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
Everything about your post is retarded.

View Quote

That was really efficient. You didn't use lots of words but the
scorn is palpable.

Posted: 3/8/2015 4:59:08 PM EDT

[#12]

Looks stupid as fuck. Sorry.

Posted: 3/8/2015 5:02:25 PM EDT

[#13]

Totally pointless to have a LER scope on a monolithic railed upper.
Looks like hammered shit and makes the rifle less useful.
FAIL

Posted: 3/8/2015 5:02:40 PM EDT

[#14]

merits of the scout rifle - None

Posted: 3/8/2015 5:04:06 PM EDT

[#15]

On the hand guard.

Posted: 3/8/2015 5:05:03 PM EDT

[#16]

I'm not sure I understand what is going on. Can OP not find a normal 1-6x with an illuminated reticule like everyone else?

Posted: 3/8/2015 5:11:13 PM EDT

[#17]

If you were a fan of Col Coopers scout rifle, you'd have a freaking clue of what it is and why.

As it is, your smearing your feces on a cake because frosting is brown too.

Posted: 3/8/2015 5:12:16 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
If you were a fan of Col Coopers scout rifle, you'd have a freaking clue of what it is and why.

As it is, your smearing your feces on a cake because frosting is brown too.

View Quote

*you're

Posted: 3/8/2015 5:15:21 PM EDT

[#19]

With that forward mounted scope you can easily use stripper clips to top load your rifle...

Oh, wait.....

Posted: 3/8/2015 5:17:32 PM EDT

[#20]

Col. Cooper did not like the .223

The Scout concept is awesome on a bolt action rifle,

Posted: 3/8/2015 5:17:39 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
I think the firedot reticle and 1.6-4.8 zoom of the scope address much of the concerns. The balance point is just in fromt of the mag well.

View Quote

So front heavy like you want a rifle to be?

You do realize the whole reason for the LER scope was to be able to reload a bolt action rifle easily from the top singly or via stripper clip don't you?

Posted: 3/8/2015 5:20:26 PM EDT

[#22]

This is your second post to Arf?

Prepare to be loved tenderly.

Posted: 3/8/2015 5:23:17 PM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:

So front heavy like you want a rifle to be?

You do realize the whole reason for the LER scope was to be able to reload a bolt action rifle easily from the top singly or via stripper clip don't you?

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I think the firedot reticle and 1.6-4.8 zoom of the scope address much of the concerns. The balance point is just in fromt of the mag well.

So front heavy like you want a rifle to be?

You do realize the whole reason for the LER scope was to be able to reload a bolt action rifle easily from the top singly or via stripper clip don't you?

Yeah, having forward mounted optics on anything that is not charged with a stripper clip seems pointless. I have a gunsmith friend who could really beat this idea into the ground and has in conversation with me several times. He was contracted to build a bunch of them over the years and has really gotten to dislike them.

Posted: 3/8/2015 5:24:00 PM EDT

[#24]

John Dean "Jeff" Cooper is facepalming from the grave as we speak.......

Posted: 3/8/2015 5:25:06 PM EDT

[#25]

Oh and one other thing. I have heard over and over again that scout rifle purists. Especially colonel cooper don't care at all for 223-556 guns.

Posted: 3/8/2015 5:26:58 PM EDT

[#26]

Take the scope off or mount one where it should normally go and you'll have a nice rifle, as it sits, not so much.

Posted: 3/8/2015 5:29:12 PM EDT

[#27]

not my cup of tea, but if you like it. that is all that counts.

Posted: 3/8/2015 5:29:55 PM EDT

[#28]

You know the purpose behind putting the scope forward is to clear stripper clips, don't you? Other than that, forward mounting is generally inferior, especially with magnified optics.

Posted: 3/8/2015 5:30:58 PM EDT

[#29]

I'm not saying that's gay, however,............Cum on a mustache.

Posted: 3/8/2015 5:33:25 PM EDT

[#30]

Cooper said it was to be a .308. Didn't he also say it should be a bolt gun?

Posted: 3/8/2015 5:35:33 PM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:
Everything about your post is retarded.

View Quote

Posted: 3/8/2015 5:36:10 PM EDT

[#32]

I don't have a problem with it, I'd ditch the big scope, lights, foregrip and para cord sling to shave weight.

Add a micro red dot and use a 20 rnd mag for more weight savings.

Does it have one of those really light barrels?

I have a Ruger GSR in 308, perhaps one of my favorite rifles. I like the concept. Honestly I am not a big fan of cooper.

Posted: 3/8/2015 5:41:25 PM EDT

[#33]

Um...ever heard of a red dot

Posted: 3/8/2015 5:41:47 PM EDT

[#34]

Looks very well balanced, especially when holding only the VFG.

OP is either literally retarded or a literally retarded troll.

Posted: 3/8/2015 5:50:46 PM EDT

[#35]

Quote History

Quoted:
Cooper said it was to be a .308. Didn't he also say it should be a bolt gun?

View Quote

I think the idea was 308, but he accepted 7-08 for places that couldn't use military calibers. At the time cooper worked out the scout concept there were not a whole lot of lightweight semi autos so a bolt action was the choice.

I don't think cooper liked the the 556 ctg at all, but then again he was 10mm/45 guy. I think the 556 is fine for deer sized game, I would not use it for larger black bears over 200 pounds.

Posted: 3/8/2015 6:00:56 PM EDT

[#36]

that's just

If you want quick reflex, get a red dot, you want magnified, get a rifle scope.

Posted: 3/8/2015 6:10:36 PM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:
that's just

If you want quick reflex, get a red dot, you want magnified, get a rifle scope.

View Quote

I take it you're not a fan of illuminated 1x4 scopes on ARs...

Posted: 3/8/2015 6:22:38 PM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:
merits of the scout rifle - None

View Quote

There would be some of us that might argue that point .

I believe if the Col were to come back from the dead and hear the OP refer to that as a "scout" he would laugh and possibly smack someone in the head.

The thing with ARs is they can be different things to different folks , this one doesn't do much for me but if it makes the OP happy more power to him.

Seems a waste to spend all that money on that scope and match it up with a medium heavy rifle , somehow get the weight down a pound or a pound and a half and make it somewhat shorter and it could be a flashy little item for close up fast moving hogs and the like .

I believe the proper term for this gun is not a scout but a "poodle shooter"

Posted: 3/9/2015 9:24:08 AM EDT

[#39]

You're putting all the weight right where it shouldn't be.

Posted: 3/9/2015 9:29:41 AM EDT

[#40]

Awesome trolling, are you ....... Familiar?

Posted: 3/9/2015 9:31:06 AM EDT

[#41]

The forward mounted scope is very fast. That is the main advantage to the scout concept. Unless you have extensively used the forward mounted scope you might not understand why it works so well. I also thought the forward mount was kind of silly when I first saw it. The Remington 600 carbine was a short, light rifle and was chambered in the 350 Remington Magnum. Quite a bit of recoil with a 250 gr 35 cal bullet at around 2500 fps. People got hit with the scope a lot. So, a forward mount was made and the M8 scope adapted to long eye relief. Worked nicely and that was what Col. Cooper saw in it.

Long ago, I built my first one on a bubbaized Enfield #4 that had a new barrel fitted. Had the barrel cut to 20 inches and the front sight base for a Marlin Camp Carbine installed. Added the scope base for a TC Contender to the barrel at the right spot. The rifle had the two position peep sight at the rear. Cut one off for clearance. Added Monte Carlo polymer stock set with recoil pad. Used a pistol scope. Cost was about $250.00 at the time. 10 shot that can be reloaded very quickly with a very short and smooth action.

The scout was new back then and everyone thought it looked stupid. Until they fired it. I have built a few more since then. No need for that now with the new RGS.

So, within the limits of the 223/5.56 cartridge, the rifle pictured should work just fine. It is not a "true scout" but that scope setup makes it more usable IMHO.

Posted: 3/9/2015 9:31:34 AM EDT

[#42]

You meant to say the tipping point is just in front of your handguard.

Posted: 3/9/2015 9:39:01 AM EDT

[#43]

Looked like something a dumb person would build.

Posted: 3/9/2015 9:39:39 AM EDT

[#44]

So, OP will be back in a couple more years for post #3 to explain this shit?

Posted: 3/9/2015 9:43:31 AM EDT

[#45]

Quote History

Quoted:
So, OP will be back in a couple more years for post #3 to explain this shit?

View Quote

Just get an AR10ish gun and put a 1-4 on it and call it good enough
fast enough
light enough
in the right cartridge

Posted: 3/9/2015 9:44:48 AM EDT

[#46]

Posted: 3/9/2015 9:46:48 AM EDT

[#47]

wtf is this real life?

1-Eye relief? Scopes aren't made to have a foot of eye relief

2-Balance? The weight needs to be above and behind the mag-well to balance the rifle.

3-Hand-guard is a horrible spot to put a scope mount since it can flex small amounts.

4-Why? Please explain why anyone would want to do this with a scope??