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Posted: 6/22/2024 8:44:17 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In my limited experience, the pre-deployment train up is what actually matters and gets them trained. I've not seen much accomplished through the weekend drills. Even the 4 day drills are mostly wasted on bureaucracy. On the MUTA weekends the company is always going to have a focus on some form of training that needs to be accomplished. There's always dead time and it's up to the NCOs to fill that dead time with something meaningful while everyone waits for the higher t to be done arguing around the table about what's been done versus what needs to still be accomplished. The worst thing the NCOs can do is let Joe just sit around doing nothing and feeling like the weekend is a waste of their time |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 8:51:18 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I believe Governors are the National Guards Commander-in-Chief unless activated. https://gov.texas.gov/uploads/files/press/BidenJoseph_11.16.22.pdf As with everything else, the feds ultimately control the purse strings and provide the majority of national guard funding. If there was a governor that tried the independent approach you suggested, I'm willing to bet that that States Guard funding would mysteriously disappear |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 9:18:06 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I say we set up shooting ranges all along the border and have them practicing marksmanship 24/7. People who think infantry is just shooting, medical, and fitness are missing a lot of what goes into actually being an 03xx or 11x. There’s a million other tasks besides that. Since a large portion of the border, well most of it, is privately owned, you’d have issues with permission. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 10:28:48 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Infantry training is all about marksmanship, fitness, and medical. So we've gone from assuming you have never seen a METL before to confirming it. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 10:40:19 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You cut out the part where I pointed out that what they are missing out on probably doesn't prepare them anyway. More of a check the box kinda bullshit. So it's sort of a lie if you look at it that way. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm sure this make believe General thinks what he does is super important to global deterrence though. You cut out the part where I pointed out that what they are missing out on probably doesn't prepare them anyway. More of a check the box kinda bullshit. So it's sort of a lie if you look at it that way. "Probably". He has 40 days a year to do the most he can with. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 10:42:06 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In my limited experience, the pre-deployment train up is what actually matters and gets them trained. I've not seen much accomplished through the weekend drills. Even the 4 day drills are mostly wasted on bureaucracy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: You cut out the part where I pointed out that what they are missing out on probably doesn't prepare them anyway. More of a check the box kinda bullshit. So it's sort of a lie if you look at it that way. A technical MOS that only has around 40 training days a year, which has to share that between 350-1, admin, and SMCT skills won't atrophy if that time is taken away? After having been the validation authority for a half dozen guard companies related to MOS based ICTL/METs, I can assure you they need all the time they can get. In my limited experience, the pre-deployment train up is what actually matters and gets them trained. I've not seen much accomplished through the weekend drills. Even the 4 day drills are mostly wasted on bureaucracy. And in my not very limited experience I need those 40 days to have the Marines pushing buttons on radios, loading crypto, and JTACs need to maintain proficiency. We go to the field on 3 and 4 day drills and very little time is wasted. This isn't a "oh well we lost our 40 days of training, guess we'll knock it out before we go to war" type situation. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 10:43:33 AM EDT
[#7]
Land mines & shoot to kill. A boarder is pointless without defending it
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Posted: 6/22/2024 10:43:57 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Earlier it was argued that it is the collective training, of infantry units, that's suffering. This assertion made after some had mentioned that a lot of the individual training can be done as well, or better while on orders at the border. Now we are back to individual training, but now for technical MOS... So what kinda units are actually getting sent down there and what training are they missing that can't be done down there? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: In my limited experience, the pre-deployment train up is what actually matters and gets them trained. I've not seen much accomplished through the weekend drills. Even the 4 day drills are mostly wasted on bureaucracy. The predeployment trainup at MOB immediately before they deploy that gets wasted on 1st Army validating basic battle drills? As active duty I go out to ATs and combined quarterly drills and conduct MOS training in specific technical MOS tasks. If those were taken away they would have zero recourse to train in their MOS. I have a role with Compo II for a reason. Earlier it was argued that it is the collective training, of infantry units, that's suffering. This assertion made after some had mentioned that a lot of the individual training can be done as well, or better while on orders at the border. Now we are back to individual training, but now for technical MOS... So what kinda units are actually getting sent down there and what training are they missing that can't be done down there? Examples are being given of why infantry units and technical MOS both need to train. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 10:45:17 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I say we set up shooting ranges all along the border and have them practicing marksmanship 24/7. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Infantry training is all about marksmanship, fitness, and medical. Don't take his word for it, he knows fuckall about infantry training. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 10:52:22 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In my limited experience, the pre-deployment train up is what actually matters and gets them trained. I've not seen much accomplished through the weekend drills. Even the 4 day drills are mostly wasted on bureaucracy. That couldn't be any further from the truth on the ANG aviation package side. You can't cram aircraft maintenance or aircrew proficiency in a the one week of pre-deployment orders. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 11:47:39 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: On the MUTA weekends the company is always going to have a focus on some form of training that needs to be accomplished. There's always dead time and it's up to the NCOs to fill that dead time with something meaningful while everyone waits for the higher t to be done arguing around the table about what's been done versus what needs to still be accomplished. The worst thing the NCOs can do is let Joe just sit around doing nothing and feeling like the weekend is a waste of their time Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In my limited experience, the pre-deployment train up is what actually matters and gets them trained. I've not seen much accomplished through the weekend drills. Even the 4 day drills are mostly wasted on bureaucracy. On the MUTA weekends the company is always going to have a focus on some form of training that needs to be accomplished. There's always dead time and it's up to the NCOs to fill that dead time with something meaningful while everyone waits for the higher t to be done arguing around the table about what's been done versus what needs to still be accomplished. The worst thing the NCOs can do is let Joe just sit around doing nothing and feeling like the weekend is a waste of their time That describes every drill I've seen or heard a detailed description of. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 11:51:16 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That couldn't be any further from the truth on the ANG aviation package side. You can't cram aircraft maintenance or aircrew proficiency in a the one week of pre-deployment orders. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In my limited experience, the pre-deployment train up is what actually matters and gets them trained. I've not seen much accomplished through the weekend drills. Even the 4 day drills are mostly wasted on bureaucracy. That couldn't be any further from the truth on the ANG aviation package side. You can't cram aircraft maintenance or aircrew proficiency in a the one week of pre-deployment orders. Are there any ANG aircraft crew or maintenance guys on the border? That just sounds stupid. They are more likely to hurt themselves, than anything. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 11:57:08 AM EDT
[#14]
https://www.jcs.mil/Media/News/News-Display/Article/1495917/dod-dhs-outline-national-guard-role-in-securing-border/
President Donald J. Trump authorized the National Guard, with the affected governors’ approval, to enhance its support to U.S. Customs and Border Protection along the southern U.S. border, White said at a Pentagon news briefing. "The National Guard’s efforts will include aviation, engineering, surveillance, communications, vehicle maintenance and logistical support," White said. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 12:04:03 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Examples are being given of why infantry units and technical MOS both need to train. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: In my limited experience, the pre-deployment train up is what actually matters and gets them trained. I've not seen much accomplished through the weekend drills. Even the 4 day drills are mostly wasted on bureaucracy. The predeployment trainup at MOB immediately before they deploy that gets wasted on 1st Army validating basic battle drills? As active duty I go out to ATs and combined quarterly drills and conduct MOS training in specific technical MOS tasks. If those were taken away they would have zero recourse to train in their MOS. I have a role with Compo II for a reason. Earlier it was argued that it is the collective training, of infantry units, that's suffering. This assertion made after some had mentioned that a lot of the individual training can be done as well, or better while on orders at the border. Now we are back to individual training, but now for technical MOS... So what kinda units are actually getting sent down there and what training are they missing that can't be done down there? Examples are being given of why infantry units and technical MOS both need to train. The examples aren't very good or convincing. It has been a very long time, but I've drilled with an infantry company in the NG. They had insufficient time to train, then wasted a lot of that time. If planned and prioritized halfway decently, they would be MUCH better trained at the end of a border rotation than at the end of a year of a year of 40 days of training at home station. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 12:13:28 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Admittedly I am not a guard guy and don't know a lot about it. From what I've seen I've gotten the impression that Guard units either get an extended train up prior to Deployment, or they are a fucked up clown show. Some units I've seen with more drills, longer drills and an extended trainup, were still clown shows. It really seemed to be much more about the pre deployment trainup than the drills years or six months prior. So I have my doubts about how much this actually impacts anything. I'm not the PACOM J-5, but I really doubt that National Guard units taking 120 days to train up, instead of 90, is going to be the deciding factor against China. I'm sure this make believe General thinks what he does is super important to global deterrence though. I hope you have never seen an active unit at a CTC. 1st Armored should be disbanded. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 12:15:33 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In my limited experience, the pre-deployment train up is what actually matters and gets them trained. I've not seen much accomplished through the weekend drills. Even the 4 day drills are mostly wasted on bureaucracy. Pre mob is just a basic training refresher. It doesn't touch on actual MOS skills. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 12:17:58 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If only we had some uniformed force that Patrols the Border. Like the Army? Washington warned us about standing armies and meddling in foreign wars but we didn't listen. If we brought all our troops home the world would be fine and we'd have a solid border. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 12:27:00 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That describes every drill I've seen or heard a detailed description of. I've seen that behavior more in Sustainment Units than in something with an actual mission. Our local SB is a fucked up soup sandwich, but the CSSB assigned to them is always on deployment because they are good at their jobs. You will still find laziness in fun units like USACAPOC but the teams that fuck around find they don't get to do anything while the teams that are doing hip pocket training and ignoring HHC guidance are doing annual trips to INDOPACOM and jumping. 1st Armored still seems like a fucked up football bat, and I am hoping 11th AB is a much better environment. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 12:33:38 PM EDT
[#20]
https://www.nationalguard.mil/News/Article/3432496/44th-ibct-builds-generational-readiness-in-jrtc-rotation/
This is not an MRE, a mission rehearsal exercise for deployment,” said Brig. Gen. Nate Lord, the rotation’s senior mentor and assistant division commander for support with the 42nd Infantry Division, New York Army National Guard, parent division of the 44th IBCT. “It’s an exercise to build a level of readiness to fight large-scale combat operations.” |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 12:35:23 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are there any ANG aircraft crew or maintenance guys on the border? That just sounds stupid. They are more likely to hurt themselves, than anything. There's a PSYOPs unit at the border, who are not legally allowed to conduct their METs during that mission. There is an artillery battery there too, I'm not sure what you think they are getting out of it. Im not sure what you think is going on there, but putting up C wire and handing out water isn't the training opportunity you think it is. It's also degrading into individual augmentees filling company billets, reducing strength across the rest of the force, which has to pull IA's to fill other missions. After a few years literally no UIC is organically deployable. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 12:54:04 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are there any ANG aircraft crew or maintenance guys on the border? That just sounds stupid. They are more likely to hurt themselves, than anything. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: In my limited experience, the pre-deployment train up is what actually matters and gets them trained. I've not seen much accomplished through the weekend drills. Even the 4 day drills are mostly wasted on bureaucracy. That couldn't be any further from the truth on the ANG aviation package side. You can't cram aircraft maintenance or aircrew proficiency in a the one week of pre-deployment orders. Are there any ANG aircraft crew or maintenance guys on the border? That just sounds stupid. They are more likely to hurt themselves, than anything. Yes. They took volunteers from just about any career field. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 12:54:19 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.jcs.mil/Media/News/News-Display/Article/1495917/dod-dhs-outline-national-guard-role-in-securing-border/ President Donald J. Trump authorized the National Guard, with the affected governors’ approval, to enhance its support to U.S. Customs and Border Protection along the southern U.S. border, White said at a Pentagon news briefing. "The National Guard’s efforts will include aviation, engineering, surveillance, communications, vehicle maintenance and logistical support," White said. The aviation thing I assume is mostly the Blackhawks? If so, I'm guessing that a year of fixing and flying them on the border get them more experience and training opportunities, not less. "Oh no Congress my vehicle maintenance and logistical people had to spend a year at the border doing vehicle maintenance and logistical support in support of the border patrol, now they don't know how to do vehicle maintenance or logistical support, please give me more money." |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 1:03:11 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The aviation thing I assume is mostly the Blackhawks? If so, I'm guessing that a year of fixing and flying them on the border get them more experience and training opportunities, not less. "Oh no Congress my vehicle maintenance and logistical people had to spend a year at the border doing vehicle maintenance and logistical support in support of the border patrol, now they don't know how to do vehicle maintenance or logistical support, please give me more money." Some fixed wing for reconnaissance but I wasn’t posting that regarding air national guard but rather looking into what assets were needed. Obviously I didn’t expect armor and field artillery but in my mind I figured MP and engineering but apparently it’s more than that. To my surprise air defense units have been sent . Anyway, Army aviation is a heavily deployed branch worldwide. Those guys are constantly somewhere for sure |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 1:05:38 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's a PSYOPs unit at the border, who are not legally allowed to conduct their METs during that mission. There is an artillery battery there too, I'm not sure what you think they are getting out of it. Im not sure what you think is going on there, but putting up C wire and handing out water isn't the training opportunity you think it is. It's also degrading into individual augmentees filling company billets, reducing strength across the rest of the force, which has to pull IA's to fill other missions. After a few years literally no UIC is organically deployable. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Are there any ANG aircraft crew or maintenance guys on the border? That just sounds stupid. They are more likely to hurt themselves, than anything. There's a PSYOPs unit at the border, who are not legally allowed to conduct their METs during that mission. There is an artillery battery there too, I'm not sure what you think they are getting out of it. Im not sure what you think is going on there, but putting up C wire and handing out water isn't the training opportunity you think it is. It's also degrading into individual augmentees filling company billets, reducing strength across the rest of the force, which has to pull IA's to fill other missions. After a few years literally no UIC is organically deployable. I see. There's probably some truth to the claim for some units, not so much for others. I've found the "we haven't had time or resources to train to standard" excuse is bullshit 99% of the time. Still kinda sounds like good training for a National Guard deployment. "Oh look it's an untrained circus doing random things that they've never heard of or trained for." -Every NG deployment ever |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 1:08:54 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. They took volunteers from just about any career field. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: In my limited experience, the pre-deployment train up is what actually matters and gets them trained. I've not seen much accomplished through the weekend drills. Even the 4 day drills are mostly wasted on bureaucracy. That couldn't be any further from the truth on the ANG aviation package side. You can't cram aircraft maintenance or aircrew proficiency in a the one week of pre-deployment orders. Are there any ANG aircraft crew or maintenance guys on the border? That just sounds stupid. They are more likely to hurt themselves, than anything. Yes. They took volunteers from just about any career field. Yikes. That's just terrible military planning and leadership. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 1:09:05 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The aviation thing I assume is mostly the Blackhawks? If so, I'm guessing that a year of fixing and flying them on the border get them more experience and training opportunities, not less. "Oh no Congress my vehicle maintenance and logistical people had to spend a year at the border doing vehicle maintenance and logistical support in support of the border patrol, now they don't know how to do vehicle maintenance or logistical support, please give me more money." Yeah that’s why I distinguishing infantry METL fron MP but I admit I have I no clue on METL for most support branches. I’ve only served in infantry, field artillery, combat engineer, SOF and my first active duty enlistment was Signal. I’ve had brief taskings to other branches like QM unit and Armor |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 1:11:28 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yikes. That's just terrible military planning and leadership. Leadership from CinC down imo is where many of the problems emanate - including Congress |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 1:21:14 PM EDT
[#29]
No idea if other state air guards are currently contributing to the border mission, this is from Texas state mission
 Texas Air National Guard patrolling the South Texas Border But air guard has been a part of assisting on the border with their fixed wing assets https://www.nationalguard.mil/News/Article-View/Article/628403/dod-officials-national-guard-border-support-to-shift-to-the-air/#:~:text=In%20addition%2C%20Guard%20members%20will,time%20to%20prevent%20illegal%20activities “In addition, Guard members will fly RC-26 "Metroliner" fixed-wing aircraft with detection and monitoring capability of 12 nautical miles. Such capability will enable the Border Patrol to work in more challenging terrain and give the patrol a faster reaction time to prevent illegal activities.” https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2023/01/05/air-guards-rc-26-reconnaissance-planes-head-into-retirement/ |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 1:26:38 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yikes. That's just terrible military planning and leadership. Where did you think these people are supposed to come from? Do you think that was an outcome they deliberately chose? X requirements are set, I have Y amount of personnel. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 1:26:59 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Leadership from CinC down imo is where many of the problems emanate - including Congress Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yikes. That's just terrible military planning and leadership. Leadership from CinC down imo is where many of the problems emanate - including Congress This smells like lazy and incompetent field grades at the NGB. Or worse yet, deliberate sabotage for political reasons. I've heard of a lot of BS politics coming into play and screwing people over in the Guard. And I'm not talking GO or political level politics, I'm talking about 0-3 and E-7 promotions. Hopefully that's better now. I know the NG is busy, but there's no reason for sending ANG mechanics to the border. I bet if one were to investigate things, there are 50 better options. But those options would require dropping something more fun, or flavor of the day. Or worse yet, pissing off some people it's not convenient to piss off. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 1:31:19 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpMdAfW_5Zghttps://www.nationalguard.mil/News/Article-View/Article/628403/dod-officials-national-guard-border-support-to-shift-to-the-air/#:~:text=In%20addition%2C%20Guard%20members%20will,time%20to%20prevent%20illegal%20activities “In addition, Guard members will fly RC-26 "Metroliner" fixed-wing aircraft with detection and monitoring capability of 12 nautical miles. Such capability will enable the Border Patrol to work in more challenging terrain and give the patrol a faster reaction time to prevent illegal activities.” https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2023/01/05/air-guards-rc-26-reconnaissance-planes-head-into-retirement/ So OLS is Texas State and not Federally funded correct? If so, then it doesn't really apply to the NGB chief crying for more Fed money from Congress? I understand Guard funding can get complex. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 1:33:48 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So OLS is Texas State and not Federally funded correct? If so, then it doesn't really apply to the NGB chief crying for more Fed money from Congress? I understand Guard funding can get complex. Probably because it's a federal mission the guard is covering down for. It sure sounded like a pitch to get the federal government to take over versus appropriate money to the guard....being that his primary concerns were manning sustainability and training timeline considerations. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 1:34:51 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where did you think these people are supposed to come from? Do you think that was an outcome they deliberately chose? X requirements are set, I have Y amount of personnel. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yikes. That's just terrible military planning and leadership. Where did you think these people are supposed to come from? Do you think that was an outcome they deliberately chose? X requirements are set, I have Y amount of personnel. It seems very possible that it was deliberately chosen as it's obviously not a mission favored by the administration and top leadership. Otherwise it's just incompetence in force planning to not better match up the right personnel to the right mission. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 1:38:49 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This smells like lazy and incompetent field grades at the NGB. Or worse yet, deliberate sabotage for political reasons. I've heard of a lot of BS politics coming into play and screwing people over in the Guard. And I'm not talking GO or political level politics, I'm talking about 0-3 and E-7 promotions. Hopefully that's better now. I know the NG is busy, but there's no reason for sending ANG mechanics to the border. I bet if one were to investigate things, there are 50 better options. But those options would require dropping something more fun, or flavor of the day. Or worse yet, pissing off some people it's not convenient to piss off. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yikes. That's just terrible military planning and leadership. Leadership from CinC down imo is where many of the problems emanate - including Congress This smells like lazy and incompetent field grades at the NGB. Or worse yet, deliberate sabotage for political reasons. I've heard of a lot of BS politics coming into play and screwing people over in the Guard. And I'm not talking GO or political level politics, I'm talking about 0-3 and E-7 promotions. Hopefully that's better now. I know the NG is busy, but there's no reason for sending ANG mechanics to the border. I bet if one were to investigate things, there are 50 better options. But those options would require dropping something more fun, or flavor of the day. Or worse yet, pissing off some people it's not convenient to piss off. They are voluntary state active duty orders. Ideally it would be all ARNG of relevant MOSs or ANG security forces, but you take what you can get since they can’t involuntary mobilize members. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 1:40:19 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This smells like lazy and incompetent field grades at the NGB. Or worse yet, deliberate sabotage for political reasons. I've heard of a lot of BS politics coming into play and screwing people over in the Guard. And I'm not talking GO or political level politics, I'm talking about 0-3 and E-7 promotions. Hopefully that's better now. I know the NG is busy, but there's no reason for sending ANG mechanics to the border. I bet if one were to investigate things, there are 50 better options. But those options would require dropping something more fun, or flavor of the day. Or worse yet, pissing off some people it's not convenient to piss off. In my experience it varies. I’ve served in California guard - one of the worst for what you describe and more which is pathetic for a state with 39 million people to pool from and I’ve served with Washington, Virginia, Hawaii and Florida NG as well as interacting with many other states it wildly varies. It seemed to improve somewhat over time during GWOT but I agree a more serious effort that mitigates some of these issues we’ve covered in the thread needs to be forthcoming ASAP. Unfortunately we have a double whammy of bad recruiting, shrinking force structure an overrun border and pure mayhem resulting. Multiple unsustainable critical issues and to date Team Biden and Congress {both parties} appear lackluster, wanting and incapable or unwilling to address core issues. That’s why I not slamming anyone in the thread. It’s exasperating for anyone caring about sovereignty and national security but I have to clarify the background for civilian readers of the thread so they have some context. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 1:44:28 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So OLS is Texas State and not Federally funded correct? If so, then it doesn't really apply to the NGB chief crying for more Fed money from Congress? I understand Guard funding can get complex. Yeah, everyone is doing what they can do. Texas is attempting to address the issue at the state level, while Team Biden seems to only be pandering during an election year to both the public at large who wants border control and his Democrat party voters that love Dreamer/“undicumented” photo ops and more asylum |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 1:54:41 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yikes. That's just terrible military planning and leadership. I’m starting to think you’ve never been in the military. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 1:56:34 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The examples aren't very good or convincing. It has been a very long time, but I've drilled with an infantry company in the NG. They had insufficient time to train, then wasted a lot of that time. If planned and prioritized halfway decently, they would be MUCH better trained at the end of a border rotation than at the end of a year of a year of 40 days of training at home station. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: In my limited experience, the pre-deployment train up is what actually matters and gets them trained. I've not seen much accomplished through the weekend drills. Even the 4 day drills are mostly wasted on bureaucracy. The predeployment trainup at MOB immediately before they deploy that gets wasted on 1st Army validating basic battle drills? As active duty I go out to ATs and combined quarterly drills and conduct MOS training in specific technical MOS tasks. If those were taken away they would have zero recourse to train in their MOS. I have a role with Compo II for a reason. Earlier it was argued that it is the collective training, of infantry units, that's suffering. This assertion made after some had mentioned that a lot of the individual training can be done as well, or better while on orders at the border. Now we are back to individual training, but now for technical MOS... So what kinda units are actually getting sent down there and what training are they missing that can't be done down there? Examples are being given of why infantry units and technical MOS both need to train. The examples aren't very good or convincing. It has been a very long time, but I've drilled with an infantry company in the NG. They had insufficient time to train, then wasted a lot of that time. If planned and prioritized halfway decently, they would be MUCH better trained at the end of a border rotation than at the end of a year of a year of 40 days of training at home station. Whether or not an individual unit wasted time is irrelevant. The fact is the general is pointing out, correctly, that he can't do everything he's being tasked with. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 1:57:51 PM EDT
[#40]
Waiting to get involved in a land war in Asia?
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Posted: 6/22/2024 1:57:52 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are voluntary state active duty orders. Ideally it would be all ARNG of relevant MOSs or ANG security forces, but you take what you can get since they can’t involuntary mobilize members. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yikes. That's just terrible military planning and leadership. Leadership from CinC down imo is where many of the problems emanate - including Congress This smells like lazy and incompetent field grades at the NGB. Or worse yet, deliberate sabotage for political reasons. I've heard of a lot of BS politics coming into play and screwing people over in the Guard. And I'm not talking GO or political level politics, I'm talking about 0-3 and E-7 promotions. Hopefully that's better now. I know the NG is busy, but there's no reason for sending ANG mechanics to the border. I bet if one were to investigate things, there are 50 better options. But those options would require dropping something more fun, or flavor of the day. Or worse yet, pissing off some people it's not convenient to piss off. They are voluntary state active duty orders. Ideally it would be all ARNG of relevant MOSs or ANG security forces, but you take what you can get since they can’t involuntary mobilize members. I think there has been a lot of mixing oranges and bananas here. Some people talking about how useless the NG is. That's the fed mission run by General empty suit. From that perspective it's a waste of time and money. Instead of asking for more money, he should be asking for relief from a useless mission and less money, but he isn't doing that is he? From a personnel standpoint, he's saying I need more money, for more Soldiers, because the States are using NG guys to do the job my boss won't let the Border Patrol do. So he can fuck right off on that angle. It appears there are useful NG are on State orders that are State funded doing impactful things. That doesn't apply to the NGB guy crying to Congress for money. If Congress had half a brain, the NDAA would include direct funding to OLS and similar, for their State missions. They could take that money from the typical NG pot and away from executive control. The General is right, his Fed government and troops on orders are a useless waste of Fed tax money. Send all that money to Texas and Abbot and anyone else who is actually doing something useful. That's what would help both the important mission, and the Soldiers doing it. But the General isn't advocating for that, because he is a piece of shit selfish politician. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 2:02:07 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m starting to think you’ve never been in the military. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yikes. That's just terrible military planning and leadership. I’m starting to think you’ve never been in the military. I bet one of us has done substantial long term force planning and the other hasn't. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 2:03:16 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Otherwise it's just incompetence in force planning to not better match up the right personnel to the right mission. When said mission exceeds several years of continuous operations with no end in sight I'm not sure what outcome you are thinking would occur, especially from a single state's reserve component. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 2:10:06 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think there has been a lot of mixing oranges and bananas here. Some people talking about how useless the NG is. That's the fed mission run by General empty suit. From that perspective it's a waste of time and money. Instead of asking for more money, he should be asking for relief from a useless mission and less money, but he isn't doing that is he? From a personnel standpoint, he's saying I need more money, for more Soldiers, because the States are using NG guys to do the job my boss won't let the Border Patrol do. So he can fuck right off on that angle. It appears there are useful NG are on State orders that are State funded doing impactful things. That doesn't apply to the NGB guy crying to Congress for money. If Congress had half a brain, the NDAA would include direct funding to OLS and similar, for their State missions. They could take that money from the typical NG pot and away from executive control. The General is right, his Fed government and troops on orders are a useless waste of Fed tax money. Send all that money to Texas and Abbot and anyone else who is actually doing something useful. That's what would help both the important mission, and the Soldiers doing it. But the General isn't advocating for that, because he is a piece of shit selfish politician. Sending money to Texas for one mission doesn’t put more bodies on the manning document of the units supporting it. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 2:11:53 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Waiting to get involved in a land war in Asia? The wait ain’t much longer. China put out a kill list including Taiwan’s current President on the list https://amp.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/22/china-threatens-death-penalty-for-taiwan-independence-diehards “China, which views Taiwan as its own territory, has made no secret of its dislike of President Lai Ching-te, who took office last month, saying he is a “separatist”, and staged war games shortly after his inauguration.” |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 2:13:03 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I bet one of us has done substantial long term force planning and the other hasn't. So you are part of the problem. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 2:14:54 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I bet one of us has done substantial long term force planning and the other hasn't. I deal with long term GFMAP allocations and the peanut butter gets spread pretty thin even at level manning. Literally nobody is remotely close to level manning right now, especially the Guard. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 2:22:03 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sending money to Texas for one mission doesn’t put more bodies on the manning document of the units supporting it. Ah yes, the "but we can't possibly change, out think or outmaneuver our own bureaucracy" position. Very common in this government. I am old enough to remember when deploying units were plussed up to 110 to 125% strength. So that's a way. Give them the money, they will figure it out, because they care to. The NGB, not so much. Since we are wasting time on this, I read the General's testimony. The word border appears exactly once, and it's in past tense as in a mission we've been doing while he was the chief. He spends most of his air time asking for more money for new equipment, over seas rotations and pay raises. If this mission is such a big deal fucking up the NG, he forgot to mention that at all. The whole article is speculative click bait nonsense, based off of one or a few questions. It doesn't even tell us which member of Congress (or which party) asked the question. It's useless. I haven't seen the Q&A transcript if there is such a thing. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 2:23:19 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you are part of the problem. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I bet one of us has done substantial long term force planning and the other hasn't. So you are part of the problem. I was part of the problem, for way different things having nothing to do with NGB. Now I'm a very small part of another problem. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 6:45:30 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ah yes, the "but we can't possibly change, out think or outmaneuver our own bureaucracy" position. Very common in this government. I am old enough to remember when deploying units were plussed up to 110 to 125% strength. So that's a way. Give them the money, they will figure it out, because they care to. The NGB, not so much. Since we are wasting time on this, I read the General's testimony. The word border appears exactly once, and it's in past tense as in a mission we've been doing while he was the chief. He spends most of his air time asking for more money for new equipment, over seas rotations and pay raises. If this mission is such a big deal fucking up the NG, he forgot to mention that at all. The whole article is speculative click bait nonsense, based off of one or a few questions. It doesn't even tell us which member of Congress (or which party) asked the question. It's useless. I haven't seen the Q&A transcript if there is such a thing. I believe the statement was in response to a question, although I didn’t find it when I pecked around in the video I posted a couple of days ago. |
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