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Posted: 7/20/2022 11:57:40 AM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There was a thread recently about Isosoles vs. Weaver. Weaver-like arrangements are much more useful when shooting from supported positions than Isosoles. I'm intrigued. Would you mind explaining this in detail? I've never shot a handgun from supported positions, only a rifle and am a bit curious. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 12:03:18 PM EST
[#2]
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Posted: 7/20/2022 12:10:27 PM EST
[#3]
LEET!
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Posted: 7/20/2022 12:12:43 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Consider carrying a g19 mag with the adapter in your 26 first. Like my wife - looks stupid, feels and works great https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/264774/X-Grip-for-Glocks_main-1_jpg-2459594.JPG Just be careful with reloads. Those adapters grab and pinch meat. I'd rather go with a bare mag extended out of the magwell. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 12:16:59 PM EST
[#5]
I think I’ll do 11x17 piece of paper at 50 yards (no way to do 40 yards),10 rounds with 15 seconds on the timer. Start from concealed.
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Posted: 7/20/2022 12:18:02 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't have a 40yd range but can do at 50 yards. I carry a full size 1911 so 10 shots with a mag change in 15 seconds is not alot of time. Git gud |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 12:19:04 PM EST
[#7]
Demonstrated Concepts cat
 Dicken Drill. Cold. Snub. Deep Carry. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 12:23:40 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 9mm 1911 >>>> 45 acp 1911 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 8+1 is plenty to get your 8 hits. You only can miss once but 1911s have great triggers and are pretty accurate. Assuming it is in the correct caliber 9mm 1911 >>>> 45 acp 1911 .38 super 1911 >>>> both. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 12:24:58 PM EST
[#9]
I cannot think of any realistic scenario where I will be shooting a standing man with my pistol at 40 yards. Lon gun - YES. Pistol - NO
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Posted: 7/20/2022 12:25:58 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 10mm 1911 >>>> 9mm 1911 >>>> 45 acp 1911 FIFY |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 12:27:37 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I cannot think of any realistic scenario where I will be shooting a standing man with my pistol at 40 yards. Lon gun - YES. Pistol - NO What happened here in Indiana is the exact scenario where I picture myself having to shoot someone at long range with my CCP- active shooter in a large area (park, Walmart, Grocery Store, Mall, etc). |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 12:36:39 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I cannot think of any realistic scenario where I will be shooting a standing man with my pistol at 40 yards. Lon gun - YES. Pistol - NO Bro, I can't tell if you aren't keeping up with current events, didn't read the thread, or don't believe it actually happened. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 12:47:42 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I cannot think of any realistic scenario where I will be shooting a standing man with my pistol at 40 yards. Lon gun - YES. Pistol - NO You mean like the one that inspired this thread? 
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Posted: 7/20/2022 1:04:07 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I cannot think of any realistic scenario where I will be shooting a standing man with my pistol at 40 yards. Lon gun - YES. Pistol - NO 
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Posted: 7/20/2022 1:09:16 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This would be a badass competition. Stage one is the Eli drill. Stage two is the Jack Wilson (six seconds, start with pistol at low ready, head sized target, single shot). Stage three is the Kyle. In between stages, there's the Uvalde break period. You have to stand around for a total of 77 minutes (broken down however you see fit, since there is no competent incident commander to tell you otherwise). You must a) download a new Punisher wallpaper, b) get a sick new Sheepdog tattoo, and c) handcuff an old lady who isn't wearing a mask. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 1:10:43 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I cannot think of any realistic scenario where I will be shooting a standing man with my pistol at 40 yards. Lon gun - YES. Pistol - NO ??? This thread is on it literally happening. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 1:11:26 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I cannot think of any realistic scenario where I will be shooting a standing man with my pistol at 40 yards. Lon gun - YES. Pistol - NO Not sure if serious. You do realize Eli fired his shots in 15 seconds from 40 yards and took down an active shooter? Don’t you? |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 1:25:03 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I cannot think of any realistic scenario where I will be shooting a standing man with my pistol at 40 yards. Lon gun - YES. Pistol - NO Do you carry? I know more of the LE examples than CCW ones. Fairchild AFB 1994 shooting AF Cop shoots gunman with Mak 90, from about 70 yards with his M9. 4 Rounds fired by the Airman, 2 misses and 2 hits (1 shoulder and 1 head) killing the gunman. Austin Cop shoots gunman from stable. Austin cop fires at gunman while holding the reigns of his horse in one hand and hits gunman with single round fired strong hand only (Hit in chest, died with that wound and a self inflicted GSW to his head). |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 1:56:51 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I cannot think of any realistic scenario where I will be shooting a standing man with my pistol at 40 yards. Lon gun - YES. Pistol - NO Might need to change your state location to Arizona at this point. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 1:59:33 PM EST
[#20]
Well a 120 feet is A WAYS for a handgun. But I been wanting to shoot my CCW gun for a while now.
 Anyway, I measured 120 feet  Just for shits and gigles, Mp5 and CZ P07, both with iron sights.  Targets at 120  Zoomed in a bit (yes i'm uphill a bit)  Mp5 after 15 rounds  CZ after 15 rounds, while I suck, the guy would be dead!  Mp5 on the left. Cheers!  You can also see the guy on the left, got some CZ rounds! 
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Posted: 7/20/2022 2:00:39 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Might need to change your state location to Arizona at this point.  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 2:00:50 PM EST
[#22]
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Posted: 7/20/2022 2:02:46 PM EST
[#23]
 Dicken's drill, can you meet the standard? Elisjsha Dicken of Seymour, Indiana shows the way |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 2:18:56 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe. If Skinny McFuckstick tried to retreat back to the restroom under fire I assume it went down relatively quickly, unless he got himself funneled in the doorway or hallway and had zero cover. He was basically all bone and organs and not much else. Almost any hit was going to be vital, the hard part would have been getting the hits. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 2:28:28 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I cannot think of any realistic scenario where I will be shooting a standing man with my pistol at 40 yards. Lon gun - YES. Pistol - NO |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 2:32:55 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well a 120 feet is A WAYS for a handgun. But I been wanting to shoot my CCW gun for a while now. Anyway, I measured 120 feet https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/160435/IMG_5019_JPG-2459927.jpg Just for shits and gigles, Mp5 and CZ P07, both with iron sights. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/160435/IMG_5023_JPG-2459931.jpg Targets at 120 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/160435/IMG_5021_JPG-2459928.jpg Zoomed in a bit (yes i'm uphill a bit) https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/160435/IMG_5022_JPG-2459930.jpg Mp5 after 15 rounds https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/160435/IMG_5024_JPG-2459932.jpg CZ after 15 rounds, while I suck, the guy would be dead! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/160435/IMG_5025_JPG-2459934.jpg Mp5 on the left. Cheers! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/160435/IMG_5026_JPG-2459935.jpg You can also see the guy on the left, got some CZ rounds! Good job on getting out and doing some shooting! |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 2:35:57 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't have a 40yd range but can do at 50 yards. I carry a full size 1911 so 10 shots with a mag change in 15 seconds is not alot of time. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: From 40 yards, 10 shots in 15 secs on man sized target with your actually ccw pistol. 8 must hit to pass. Post your results I don't have a 40yd range but can do at 50 yards. I carry a full size 1911 so 10 shots with a mag change in 15 seconds is not alot of time. No worries, compadre! When carrying a mens gun in a mens calibre, you will only require only 1-2 shots to solve the problem. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 2:38:05 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good job on getting out and doing some shooting! Thanks! More people here need to get out and do the same! I went ahead and shot the rest of the 100 thru both guns at 60 feet. Much better results. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 2:38:14 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The COLA crew needs to make this happen. Holy hell! What would the kyle be? 1 shot into a arm/2x4 from your back, get up and another into a man sized target that's approaching you? |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 2:41:23 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I cannot think of any realistic scenario where I will be shooting a standing man with my pistol at 40 yards. Lon gun - YES. Pistol - NO Maybe the exact scenario that played out this past weekend? |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 2:47:04 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't have a 40yd range but can do at 50 yards. I carry a full size 1911 so 10 shots with a mag change in 15 seconds is not alot of time. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: From 40 yards, 10 shots in 15 secs on man sized target with your actually ccw pistol. 8 must hit to pass. Post your results I don't have a 40yd range but can do at 50 yards. I carry a full size 1911 so 10 shots with a mag change in 15 seconds is not alot of time. No reason to get bogged down in minutiae. Set up a silhouette at 40 yards. See if you can score 8 hits with your carry gun. I'd argue if you can score 5* hits you're good. Without detailed knowledge I'm speculating here, but I bet even 10 shots where all were near misses would have disrupted the attack. As soon as the psycho manlet started to retreat back into the restroom he was breaking off the attack, which means I doubt he was putting any fire on the crowd. 8 hits was outstanding and sent him off to the afterlife. I bet 1 hit would have ended the attack, probably with manlet crawling into a stall and sucking off his pistol. I would argue that some number of hits greater than zero and less than 8 would have had the same effect. I think if you can put multiple rounds into someone somewhere between groin and head, you probably will have effectively ended their mass shooter attack. ETA: *5 being my quick head-math 80% of 7 rounds. A 1911 mag with 8 rounds would be about 6 hits for approximately 80%. Anyway, like I said above 8 out of 10 is what happened, but isn't some definitive metric. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 2:49:16 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No reason to get bogged down in minutiae. Set up a silhouette at 40 yards. See if you can score 8 hits with your carry gun. I'd argue if you can score 5 hits you're good. Without detailed knowledge I'm speculating here, but I bet even 10 shots where all were near misses would have disrupted the attack. As soon as the psycho manlet started to retreat back into the restroom he was breaking off the attack, which means I doubt he was putting any fire on the crowd. 8 hits was outstanding and sent him off to the afterlife. I bet 1 hit would have ended the attack, probably with manlet crawling into a stall and sucking off his pistol. I would argue that some number of hits greater than zero and less than 8 would have had the same effect. I think if you can put multiple rounds into someone somewhere between groin and head, you probably will have effectively ended their mass shooter attack. All good points! |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 2:49:46 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good Morning, Rumpelstiltskin. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why is it called the "Eli"? Did Denzel do it in Book of Eli? Good Morning, Rumpelstiltskin. Lol. Ok, I knew of the event, didn't know the good guys name. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 2:55:38 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistorySo are we all going to have to post videos now? |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 3:52:29 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What would the kyle be? 1 shot into a arm/2x4 from your back, get up and another into a man sized target that's approaching you? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The COLA crew needs to make this happen. Holy hell! What would the kyle be? 1 shot into a arm/2x4 from your back, get up and another into a man sized target that's approaching you? Pop up target at close range. Start with rifle at low ready. Fire four rounds into 1/2 size silhouette target in under 2 seconds. Then run 250 yards. Upon crossing 250 yard mark, immediately lie on the ground prone. An unknown number of pop-up shoot/don't shoot targets arranged through a 150 degree arc are then presented at close range. Within five seconds, shooter must assume sitting position, identify nearest "shoot" target and deliver one round within the 9 ring, simulate clearing a jam, and score a hit on second "shoot" target. Logistically it seems difficult to set up. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 3:55:04 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What would the kyle be? 1 shot into a arm/2x4 from your back, get up and another into a man sized target that's approaching you? This is a good point to bring up. If you haven't shot on your back you should. I was amazed at how close my feet were when trying to score hits down range *1shortofpar strongly encourages arf to watch the toes lol |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 3:58:23 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryDamn, I'm pretty impressed with that. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 4:49:42 PM EST
[#38]
I don't want to lock the thread or keep people from posting in it. This page is going fine. @ArizonaRifleman don't continue the arguments from the last page.
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Posted: 7/20/2022 4:55:46 PM EST
[#39]
did the drill today twice once 9 hits second time 10 hits 46 yards. glock 48
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Posted: 7/20/2022 6:13:56 PM EST
[#40]
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Posted: 7/21/2022 12:22:57 AM EST
[#41]
My bear drill is 15 in 10 from 25yds on an 8" plate.
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Posted: 7/21/2022 2:03:07 AM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We can just hang B27's sideways. Use a B-27 but discount anything outside the 8 ring on the sides... |
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Posted: 7/21/2022 3:44:19 AM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was Eli using a RDS or does he just have great eye sight? With the eyesight I had at 22, I could have done it with irons. With my eyesight now...I'm going to go to the range Friday anyway, might as well add this to my list of things to do. |
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Posted: 7/21/2022 3:48:26 AM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why does it have to be a subcompact only I carry a 4" barreled pistol. Yeah same. I carry a G19 every day. |
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Posted: 7/21/2022 5:18:57 AM EST
[#45]
Eli is a damn good looking man
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Posted: 7/21/2022 6:01:32 AM EST
[#46]
Laughs in Canik standard 18 round magazine.
I can almost hit 8 by accident. |
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Posted: 7/21/2022 6:49:09 AM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Laughs in Canik standard 18 round magazine. I can almost hit 8 by accident. 
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Posted: 7/21/2022 7:13:43 AM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Want to deter mass shooters? Show one getting his ass handed to him in seconds flat. 
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Posted: 7/21/2022 7:20:40 AM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Use a B-27 but discount anything outside the 8 ring on the sides... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: We can just hang B27's sideways. Use a B-27 but discount anything outside the 8 ring on the sides... I was thinking use a B-27 but rotated about the Y-axis 45 degrees. The height would be the same, the width is reduced about 30 percent, this takes into account the bad guy was a scrawny shit shooting into the crowd at an angle from Eli. |
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Posted: 7/21/2022 7:37:05 AM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm intrigued. Would you mind explaining this in detail? I've never shot a handgun from supported positions, only a rifle and am a bit curious. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There was a thread recently about Isosoles vs. Weaver. Weaver-like arrangements are much more useful when shooting from supported positions than Isosoles. I'm intrigued. Would you mind explaining this in detail? I've never shot a handgun from supported positions, only a rifle and am a bit curious. When I have shot handguns from supported positions -- left/right support like a door frame or, in this case, a column; not horizontal like a table -- I have always shot with strong hand extended, supported by weak hand with the elbow of the weak hand bent, weaver style, as strong arm/wrist is supported by door frame or whatever. This allows for the structure to give you more cover than if you fashioned an Isosoles solution, allows you to "lean into" the structure, and it gives you more support. If you think about it, firing a rifle offhand from a vertical supported position is a "weaver-like" stance. |
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