User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 4:48:48 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grambosc: It looks like there was a satchel of something in the trench before the drone drop blew up. Maybe grenades or mines? Rocket propellant? Incendiary grenades or RPG projectiles, probably. Looked a lot like rockets cooking off. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 4:49:39 PM EDT
[#2]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 4:55:33 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: All factors, yes. But also consider: - at best, a week of refresher training. And their original, mandatory conscription years ago? I seriously doubt there was any cold-weather training. But they still might have survived if they had: - NCOs. These Mobiks are just dumped on the front without any sort of leadership. Or rather: their “leaders” are far at the rear, warming themselves inside a looted civilian home. But these Mobiks (and likely thousands of others) have no experienced NCOs to organize them to build a proper dugout with some sort of heat needed to survive. Before you feel sorry for them however, consider the overall Russian strategy: force the EU to allow Russia to take over Ukraine, or we will freeze you all to death by cutting off the gas. They did cut off the gas, but Europe won’t freeze. Now Russia is trying the same strategy on the free parts of Ukraine: freeze civilians to death by bombing energy infrastructure. Russia’s military must die (literally) before their leadership decides to turn onwards and take care of their people. LOL, what makes you think I feel sorry for them? It was just an observation as to what a shit country they are serving. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 4:55:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryGreat channel thanks for posting it! |
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 5:11:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: THOT_Vaccine]
[#5]
"probed the mortar positions of the Russians ..." Needs more yakety sax |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 5:30:28 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alex9661: Shooting Cesars from watercraft sounds like BS. You'll never get any accuracy because of unstable by it's nature platform and will have to wait for a really long time between shots for a boat to stop pitching or rolling from recoil. AFAIK big caliber naval guns have gyro stabilization systems that won't let the gun fire after receiving the fire command till the ship is level, i.e. there is a delay between fire command and actual shot. Maybe someone with better understanding of naval gunnery can elaborate on that. No, this is entirely plausible. We’ve heard rumors of it before, and even in this thread we discussed the possibility a long time ago. A few things to note: - They are talking about firing from a barge, which is designed for stability, not hydrodynamic efficiency. - GPS changes everything - and they were firing at a fixed island, not a moving naval target. Greatly simplifies things. - The Black Sea is not like the Atlantic Ocean; favorable conditions can be found much of the time, especially that time of the year. - And if using precision rounds, it would be like putting into an open manhole on the green. Not a problem at all. Old-school naval gunnery had a lot of variables beyond just if the ship were level. Two ships maneuvering independently at 25 knots, sea conditions, atmospheric conditions, shell type, and variable powder charges based on range. The firing solutions were computed based on a best guess were made and held until all factors aligned. Even then, a “shotgun” approach was used by firing a salvo in order to try to bracket the target. What is proposed here is easy-peasey in comparison. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 5:38:38 PM EDT
[#7]
Norway extends the agreement on medical evacuation from Ukraine until April 2023 https://www.abcnyheter.no/nyheter/norge/2022/11/27/195887366/norge-forlenger-avtalen-om-medisinsk-evakuering-fra-ukraina-til-april-2023 In a press release, the Government writes that Norway is initially considering an extension of the agreement through April 2023. In total, Norway has contributed to the evacuation of 543 patients since the start of the scheme. "Norway is the third largest recipient country, and we have transported the most patients for treatment in hospitals in Europe. Our airlift helps us to utilize the capacity that exists in many countries' health services, in favor of a country that is now exposed to brutal attacks every single day, says Minister of Health Ingvild Kjerkol (Ap). "In the period after Norway has started offering regular weekly flights, the number of patients being transported out through Norwegian aid has increased sharply. In the last couple of months, Norway have contributed to the transport of seven out of ten of all Medevac patients," said Minister of Foreign Affairs Anniken Huitfeldt. In addition to medical evacuation, Norway offers treatment for sick and wounded Ukrainians in Norway.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 5:48:25 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Freiheit8472: I believe @R0N uses a zero for the "o" "Neither confirm nor deny" is what they teach you to say, upon being asked. Let alone volunteer you're a valid person to ask a question too I'll just add "distribution A" (public release) is but one category in a long list of even unclass material. Even email conversations about dist a material (hell, just talking about what kind of coffee we should pitch in for at the Christmas party) are themselves, not dist A. (By the way even letting on you have a current clearance can warrant attention and a slap on the wrist if someone turns you in for doing that in public) So we do thank Ron for sticking his neck out and parsing his words to give analysis, context, and insight. I think we ticked him off a little with some of harsher rebuffs (I'm not saying I agree or disagree), which resulted in uncharacteristic retorts, like what RedolfoOfGilead mentioned. It's the nature of text-only interactions. I know I'd love to run into R0N in person.  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Freiheit8472: Originally Posted By AeroE: Originally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By ludder093: Originally Posted By AROKIE: .... Ok, so where is that knowledge? I've read every post and there is ZERO indication of a professional evaluation of the situation. I'm not saying he doesn't have such knowledge; I'm saying that it has not been reflected in his posts in regards to the issue at hand. What we have gotten from RON's posts are the following, in no particular order: 1)That the US has no national interest involved in the outcome of the Russia-Ukraine war. 2)That the level and content of US support damages US security and puts us in danger of losing a hypothetical future war against (probably) China. 3)That Ukraine "is not using the supplied weapons (i.e. HIMARS) properly and relies on emotional appeals to keep the supplies coming," without offering any evidence to back that statement. 4)That Russia is not and never was a threat to us. 5)That vague, hypothetical, and unprovable questions about the potential outcomes of US/Western support should be enough to prevent said support. Whatever this poster's previous experience was, I see no evidence of this experience in his comments on this thread. What I see are no better than opinions which have not been supported by either data, professional experience, or even cogent arguments. I challenge RON or any other poster to show otherwise using his posts on this thread. @RON RON has something only a couple others here possess - he was briefed into and worked on classified artillery and armor programs during his working career. He is bound by those clearances to hold those secrets for the rest of his life, hence the reason I coached him on this topic earlier in this thread. That applies to declassified programs, too. An ambitious prosecutor could go after him for revealing more than something along the lines of, "I work for the Army in artillery projects". What you bring to this thread is fluffy dialog that reads as feasible, but amounts to content good for a fictional novel based on this real event. I wouldn't be surprised that your posts are a very soft attempt at social engineering to learn as many tiny bits and pieces of fact that aid in the assembly of a bigger picture for the purpose of harming US security. I believe @R0N uses a zero for the "o" "Neither confirm nor deny" is what they teach you to say, upon being asked. Let alone volunteer you're a valid person to ask a question too I'll just add "distribution A" (public release) is but one category in a long list of even unclass material. Even email conversations about dist a material (hell, just talking about what kind of coffee we should pitch in for at the Christmas party) are themselves, not dist A. (By the way even letting on you have a current clearance can warrant attention and a slap on the wrist if someone turns you in for doing that in public) So we do thank Ron for sticking his neck out and parsing his words to give analysis, context, and insight. I think we ticked him off a little with some of harsher rebuffs (I'm not saying I agree or disagree), which resulted in uncharacteristic retorts, like what RedolfoOfGilead mentioned. It's the nature of text-only interactions. I know I'd love to run into R0N in person. Classified programs, including US military, also use an approved cover story, or two. One that covered all of my work is," I work on proprietary aerospace programs". Including "aerospace" is acceptable when the employer is not secret. |
|
|
|
CA, USA
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 5:49:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 74HC]
[#9]
EU whiners going off on US defense industry making money, WTF NATO tit suckers?
Do they expect that USA taxpayer dollars should not go to purchase US equipment for Ukraine, but only purchase from their defense industry? Do they expect USA taxpayers to subsidize US gas exports to EU? Three things I warned you guys here early in this thread: 1- War fatigue will happen in EU 2- Germany is only for Germany 3- Most member countries see NATO as an insurance for their defense only. https://www.zerohedge.com/political/eu-accuses-washington-making-fortune-ukraine-war EU Accuses Washington Of Making A Fortune From Ukraine War "Nine months after invading Ukraine, Vladimir Putin is beginning to fracture the West," Politico observes in a surprising admission which marks a stark reversal from prior mainstream media optimism and cheerleading of the White House's blank check approach to supporting Ukraine. "Top European officials are furious with Joe Biden's administration and now accuse the Americans of making a fortune from the war, while EU countries suffer." There's clearly growing frustration among European officials over Washington's refusal to push the Zelensky government to the negotiating table while an unprecedented billions worth of weaponry and defense aid pours in, risking unpredictable escalation between NATO and Russia. Meanwhile European populations will continue being the first to pay the price amid frigid winter temperatures and a simultaneous severe energy supply crisis even as some leaders still spout abstract ideals of "sacrifice". ... A senior European official speaking to Politico additionally blasted the White House policy of in effect using the Ukraine war to line the pockets of American defense contractors while at the same turning a deaf ear on European pleas for some relief to the no-win situation. "The fact is, if you look at it soberly, the country that is most profiting from this war is the U.S. because they are selling more gas and at higher prices, and because they are selling more weapons," the senior official said. The person acknowledged a large-scale shift in sentiment happening, largely driven by the intractable 'win in Ukraine at all costs' stance of the US administration: The explosive comments backed in public and private by officials, diplomats and ministers elsewhere follow mounting anger in Europe over American subsidies that threaten to wreck European industry. The Kremlin is likely to welcome the poisoning of the atmosphere among Western allies. "We are really at a historic juncture," the senior EU official said, arguing that the double hit of trade disruption from U.S. subsidies and high energy prices risks turning public opinion against both the war effort and the transatlantic alliance. "America needs to realize that public opinion is shifting in many EU countries." But the US National Security Council has lately reiterated its position that the crisis is solely on Putin's shoulders full-stop, while Washington is simply presenting ramped-up US liquefied natural gas delivery to Europe as fulfilling the need to "diversify away from Russia," according to a NSC statement. ... Another EU diplomat cited in the Politico report described that Biden's $369 billion industrial subsidy scheme to support green industries as part of the Inflation Reduction Act unleashed panic across European capitals. "The Inflation Reduction Act has changed everything," the EU diplomat said. "Is Washington still our ally or not?" This rising fury could spill into the streets as more European households are likely to experience shortages in electricity and heat this winter, further intensifying the pressure on EU politicians. Full article in the link above. |
|
|
OK, USA
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 5:49:24 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Waldo: A roll of toilet paper in a coffee can soaked in alcohol makes a pretty good smokeless personal heater. Of course they probably don't have toilet paper and drank any alcohol they may have had.  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Waldo: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: There's speculation that those drone drop videos are lethargic and freezing soldiers that really have shut down because of the cold. Russian forces are reporting they are forced into the exposed foxholes without any time to go back and warm up or rotate with other soldiers for relief. A roll of toilet paper in a coffee can soaked in alcohol makes a pretty good smokeless personal heater. Of course they probably don't have toilet paper and drank any alcohol they may have had. That's nice. How long does it last? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 5:57:27 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 74HC: EU whiners going off on US defense industry making money, WTF NATO tit suckers? Do they expect that USA taxpayer dollars should not go to purchase US equipment for Ukraine, but only purchase from their defense industry? Do they expect USA taxpayers to subsidize US gas exports to EU? Three things I warned you guys here early in this thread: 1- War fatigue will happen in EU 2- Germany is only for Germany 3- Most member countries see NATO as an insurance for their defense only. https://www.zerohedge.com/political/eu-accuses-washington-making-fortune-ukraine-war EU Accuses Washington Of Making A Fortune From Ukraine War "Nine months after invading Ukraine, Vladimir Putin is beginning to fracture the West," Politico observes in a surprising admission which marks a stark reversal from prior mainstream media optimism and cheerleading of the White House's blank check approach to supporting Ukraine. "Top European officials are furious with Joe Biden's administration and now accuse the Americans of making a fortune from the war, while EU countries suffer." There's clearly growing frustration among European officials over Washington's refusal to push the Zelensky government to the negotiating table while an unprecedented billions worth of weaponry and defense aid pours in, risking unpredictable escalation between NATO and Russia. Meanwhile European populations will continue being the first to pay the price amid frigid winter temperatures and a simultaneous severe energy supply crisis even as some leaders still spout abstract ideals of "sacrifice". ... A senior European official speaking to Politico additionally blasted the White House policy of in effect using the Ukraine war to line the pockets of American defense contractors while at the same turning a deaf ear on European pleas for some relief to the no-win situation. "The fact is, if you look at it soberly, the country that is most profiting from this war is the U.S. because they are selling more gas and at higher prices, and because they are selling more weapons," the senior official said. The person acknowledged a large-scale shift in sentiment happening, largely driven by the intractable 'win in Ukraine at all costs' stance of the US administration: The explosive comments backed in public and private by officials, diplomats and ministers elsewhere follow mounting anger in Europe over American subsidies that threaten to wreck European industry. The Kremlin is likely to welcome the poisoning of the atmosphere among Western allies. "We are really at a historic juncture," the senior EU official said, arguing that the double hit of trade disruption from U.S. subsidies and high energy prices risks turning public opinion against both the war effort and the transatlantic alliance. "America needs to realize that public opinion is shifting in many EU countries." But the US National Security Council has lately reiterated its position that the crisis is solely on Putin's shoulders full-stop, while Washington is simply presenting ramped-up US liquefied natural gas delivery to Europe as fulfilling the need to "diversify away from Russia," according to a NSC statement. ... Another EU diplomat cited in the Politico report described that Biden's $369 billion industrial subsidy scheme to support green industries as part of the Inflation Reduction Act unleashed panic across European capitals. "The Inflation Reduction Act has changed everything," the EU diplomat said. "Is Washington still our ally or not?" This rising fury could spill into the streets as more European households are likely to experience shortages in electricity and heat this winter, further intensifying the pressure on EU politicians. Full article in the link above. Bullshit zerohedge lies. Not one name or name of supposed EU country named in article. Support is not waning. And doubt they didn't think we should make money. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 5:58:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AeroE]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Enough of the sideshow. Take what anybody says and dismiss it if you will, but enough derailing the thread. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By AeroE: @Capta @RON RON has something only a couple others here possess - he was briefed into and worked on classified artillery and armor programs during his working career. He is bound by those clearances to hold those secrets for the rest of his life, hence the reason I coached him on this topic earlier in this thread. That applies to declassified programs, too. An ambitious prosecutor could go after him for revealing more than something along the lines of, "I work for the Army in artillery projects". What you bring to this thread is fluffy dialog that reads as feasible, but amounts to content good for a fictional novel based on this real event. I wouldn't be surprised that your posts are a very soft attempt at social engineering to learn as many tiny bits and pieces of fact that aid in the assembly of a bigger picture for the purpose of harming US security. Enough of the sideshow. Take what anybody says and dismiss it if you will, but enough derailing the thread. Read the posts immediately before and after your complaint for off topic examples. This thread might be improved with really fine derails. It certainly would be shorter with less self gratifying bull. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 5:58:54 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grambosc: It looks like there was a satchel of something in the trench before the drone drop blew up. Maybe grenades or mines? Rocket propellant? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grambosc: Originally Posted By Dominion21: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: NSFW. Ukrainian drone drop on Russian soldiers with secondaries from the Russian soldiers.
The psychological value of that type of attack (and the video of the attack) cannot be understated. Incendiary munitions are valuable terror weapons (granted - that video may just be HE that set something off which was already in the trench). Nevertheless: When videos and reports of incendiary weapons use are shared back in Russia, the potential Mobiks and 17 year-olds facing conscription will break their own legs or find ways to sneak out of Russia to escape service. We had a valuable discussion pages back on why the US version of the Napalm bomb would not be feasible for Ukrainian use. But Napalm is far from the only incendiary munition. I was only half joking about “flaming Mobiks running in every direction.” The key is to make sure the terror is spread back home among the right Russian demographic. It looks like there was a satchel of something in the trench before the drone drop blew up. Maybe grenades or mines? Rocket propellant? I was thinking flares because not much nv. Like in ww1 just like everything else they do. Doods attacking, fire off some flares so you can see them. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 6:09:07 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 74HC: https://www.zerohedge.com/political/eu-accuses-washington-making-fortune-ukraine-war Once I see "zerohedge.com" I tune out. It doesn't mean everything they publish is Russian propaganda and Putin's balls-gargling lies, just that I won't believe or pay any attention to it until I hear it from a non-zerohedge.com source. I'm not necessarily ignoring the message, I just choose to ignore the particular messenger. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 6:16:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AeroE]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: You are saying he's a traitor? An actual foreign agent?  I think you are attacking him for some unknown reason. And that's a bit much. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By AeroE: Originally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By ludder093: Originally Posted By AROKIE: .... Ok, so where is that knowledge? I've read every post and there is ZERO indication of a professional evaluation of the situation. I'm not saying he doesn't have such knowledge; I'm saying that it has not been reflected in his posts in regards to the issue at hand. What we have gotten from RON's posts are the following, in no particular order: 1)That the US has no national interest involved in the outcome of the Russia-Ukraine war. 2)That the level and content of US support damages US security and puts us in danger of losing a hypothetical future war against (probably) China. 3)That Ukraine "is not using the supplied weapons (i.e. HIMARS) properly and relies on emotional appeals to keep the supplies coming," without offering any evidence to back that statement. 4)That Russia is not and never was a threat to us. 5)That vague, hypothetical, and unprovable questions about the potential outcomes of US/Western support should be enough to prevent said support. Whatever this poster's previous experience was, I see no evidence of this experience in his comments on this thread. What I see are no better than opinions which have not been supported by either data, professional experience, or even cogent arguments. I challenge RON or any other poster to show otherwise using his posts on this thread. @RON RON has something only a couple others here possess - he was briefed into and worked on classified artillery and armor programs during his working career. He is bound by those clearances to hold those secrets for the rest of his life, hence the reason I coached him on this topic earlier in this thread. That applies to declassified programs, too. An ambitious prosecutor could go after him for revealing more than something along the lines of, "I work for the Army in artillery projects". What you bring to this thread is fluffy dialog that reads as feasible, but amounts to content good for a fictional novel based on this real event. I wouldn't be surprised that your posts are a very soft attempt at social engineering to learn as many tiny bits and pieces of fact that aid in the assembly of a bigger picture for the purpose of harming US security. You are saying he's a traitor? An actual foreign agent? I think you are attacking him for some unknown reason. And that's a bit much. I wrote that I wouldn't be surprised. Given the art of social engineering, that is reasonable, and his claimed education damn well does not reduce my opinion. A groomer isn't supposed to act in a blatant manner. That is no attack. I simply note that he has a fair imagination for writing stories. This will be my last comment on that topic. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 6:18:23 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: Once I see "zerohedge.com" I tune out. It doesn't mean everything they publish is Russian propaganda and Putin's balls-gargling lies, just that I won't believe or pay any attention to it until I hear it from a non-zerohedge.com source. I'm not necessarily ignoring the message, I just choose to ignore the particular messenger. A quick Google search shows a half dozen sources with a nearly identical headline, and another half dozen with variations on the theme. Why a person would use Zerohedge as a source is beyond me. Even if they believed ZH is actually reporting the truth, it shows a certain tone deafness that is probably wise to avoid. In this case it's true though |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 6:21:20 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gentlemanfarmer: What disconnects have have I shown? Curious truly? My course in this thing has been set in stone for 8 years. What the US does or doesn’t do or give has no bearing on my decisions or actions. When it was grim and most said Ukraine would fall, I went. It’s pretty simple for me, I keep my word. Whether it means financial ruin, death, or loss of property. The good part is from a moral standpoint it’s black and white. A lack of principles led us here. I’m biased because my friends have died etc but it doesn’t change the core of the issue. Russia invaded Ukraine, they are enemy of USA and an enemy to all our friends. They fucking deployed nerve agents and radioactive agents on British citizens. The list of Russians crimes is so long it could fill an old school encyclopedia. I just happened to experience that in a very visceral way. Their government is evil and they are fricking insane. Period I can't cite a specific example. You do tend to whitewash or ignore any problem with UA and or their prosecution of this war. I've never been there, but I hear there are a lot of people there, and if you have more than a couple of people, you have some turds. I try to never believe that any group is all saints or monsters, it just doesn't fit with reality. Please don't take this as an attack. If I were in your shoes I would probably be the same way, or worse. I'm just saying we can all have different areas of expertise, and different interpretations on what is the right path forward, without all the poop slinging. Some here are trying very hard to turn this into a circle jerk echo chamber, and it's already closer to that than it should be. Everyone wants to jump on R0N or whomever about thread drift. The thread doesn't drift because someone posts something that you don't agree with (often something one doesn't even understand), it drifts because 35 guys have to post the same argument, which often isn't even on topic wrt the first post. Yes, I realize that I'm drifting the thread right now, and I apologize. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 6:35:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Easterner]
[#18]
Cool. Now we can't ignore the people that like running their pie holes. Take the BS to IMs or get a fucking room.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 6:40:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Capta]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 74HC: EU whiners going off on US defense industry making money, WTF NATO tit suckers? Do they expect that USA taxpayer dollars should not go to purchase US equipment for Ukraine, but only purchase from their defense industry? Do they expect USA taxpayers to subsidize US gas exports to EU? Three things I warned you guys here early in this thread: 1- War fatigue will happen in EU 2- Germany is only for Germany 3- Most member countries see NATO as an insurance for their defense only. https://www.zerohedge.com/political/eu-accuses-washington-making-fortune-ukraine-war EU Accuses Washington Of Making A Fortune From Ukraine War "Nine months after invading Ukraine, Vladimir Putin is beginning to fracture the West," Politico observes in a surprising admission which marks a stark reversal from prior mainstream media optimism and cheerleading of the White House's blank check approach to supporting Ukraine. "Top European officials are furious with Joe Biden's administration and now accuse the Americans of making a fortune from the war, while EU countries suffer." There's clearly growing frustration among European officials over Washington's refusal to push the Zelensky government to the negotiating table while an unprecedented billions worth of weaponry and defense aid pours in, risking unpredictable escalation between NATO and Russia. Meanwhile European populations will continue being the first to pay the price amid frigid winter temperatures and a simultaneous severe energy supply crisis even as some leaders still spout abstract ideals of "sacrifice". ... A senior European official speaking to Politico additionally blasted the White House policy of in effect using the Ukraine war to line the pockets of American defense contractors while at the same turning a deaf ear on European pleas for some relief to the no-win situation. "The fact is, if you look at it soberly, the country that is most profiting from this war is the U.S. because they are selling more gas and at higher prices, and because they are selling more weapons," the senior official said. The person acknowledged a large-scale shift in sentiment happening, largely driven by the intractable 'win in Ukraine at all costs' stance of the US administration: The explosive comments backed in public and private by officials, diplomats and ministers elsewhere follow mounting anger in Europe over American subsidies that threaten to wreck European industry. The Kremlin is likely to welcome the poisoning of the atmosphere among Western allies. "We are really at a historic juncture," the senior EU official said, arguing that the double hit of trade disruption from U.S. subsidies and high energy prices risks turning public opinion against both the war effort and the transatlantic alliance. "America needs to realize that public opinion is shifting in many EU countries." But the US National Security Council has lately reiterated its position that the crisis is solely on Putin's shoulders full-stop, while Washington is simply presenting ramped-up US liquefied natural gas delivery to Europe as fulfilling the need to "diversify away from Russia," according to a NSC statement. ... Another EU diplomat cited in the Politico report described that Biden's $369 billion industrial subsidy scheme to support green industries as part of the Inflation Reduction Act unleashed panic across European capitals. "The Inflation Reduction Act has changed everything," the EU diplomat said. "Is Washington still our ally or not?" This rising fury could spill into the streets as more European households are likely to experience shortages in electricity and heat this winter, further intensifying the pressure on EU politicians. Full article in the link above. You should be suspicious of anything you read on Zerohedge. It is almost certainly a Russian disinfo op. As Prime mentions I’d only consider it news if I read it in multiple other places not associated with ZH or sourced from ZH or their fellow-travellers. Here’s one article from New Republic. Although you may not like some of the politics, read it for the facts. https://newrepublic.com/article/156788/zero-hedge-russian-trojan-horse |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 6:57:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Capta]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroE: I wrote that I wouldn't be surprised. Given the art of social engineering, that is reasonable, and his claimed education damn well does reduce my opinion. That is no attack. I simply note that he has a fair imagination for writing stories. This will be my last comment on that topic. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroE: Originally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By AeroE: Originally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By ludder093: Originally Posted By AROKIE: .... Ok, so where is that knowledge? I've read every post and there is ZERO indication of a professional evaluation of the situation. I'm not saying he doesn't have such knowledge; I'm saying that it has not been reflected in his posts in regards to the issue at hand. What we have gotten from RON's posts are the following, in no particular order: 1)That the US has no national interest involved in the outcome of the Russia-Ukraine war. 2)That the level and content of US support damages US security and puts us in danger of losing a hypothetical future war against (probably) China. 3)That Ukraine "is not using the supplied weapons (i.e. HIMARS) properly and relies on emotional appeals to keep the supplies coming," without offering any evidence to back that statement. 4)That Russia is not and never was a threat to us. 5)That vague, hypothetical, and unprovable questions about the potential outcomes of US/Western support should be enough to prevent said support. Whatever this poster's previous experience was, I see no evidence of this experience in his comments on this thread. What I see are no better than opinions which have not been supported by either data, professional experience, or even cogent arguments. I challenge RON or any other poster to show otherwise using his posts on this thread. @RON RON has something only a couple others here possess - he was briefed into and worked on classified artillery and armor programs during his working career. He is bound by those clearances to hold those secrets for the rest of his life, hence the reason I coached him on this topic earlier in this thread. That applies to declassified programs, too. An ambitious prosecutor could go after him for revealing more than something along the lines of, "I work for the Army in artillery projects". What you bring to this thread is fluffy dialog that reads as feasible, but amounts to content good for a fictional novel based on this real event. I wouldn't be surprised that your posts are a very soft attempt at social engineering to learn as many tiny bits and pieces of fact that aid in the assembly of a bigger picture for the purpose of harming US security. You are saying he's a traitor? An actual foreign agent? I think you are attacking him for some unknown reason. And that's a bit much. I wrote that I wouldn't be surprised. Given the art of social engineering, that is reasonable, and his claimed education damn well does reduce my opinion. That is no attack. I simply note that he has a fair imagination for writing stories. This will be my last comment on that topic. I’ve never represented myself in any other way than as I am. I stated my educational background openly and your are clearly implying I am lying If you have evidence from my posts of trying to somehow solicit sensitive information, please post that. Frankly your suggestion is ludicrous. “His claimed education damn well does reduce my opinion.” I don’t even understand what you mean here. Can you clarify this statement? . Finally, if you think that you can bluff or intimidate other posters from holding and arguing positions that you don’t agree with, you are mistaken. I’ve seen nearly zero participation by yourself in this thread over 3000 pages, yet here you are accusing me of lying and possibly treason/espionage. Do you realize how ridiculous this looks? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 7:01:14 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroE: I wrote that I wouldn't be surprised. Given the art of social engineering, that is reasonable, and his claimed education damn well does reduce my opinion. That is no attack. I simply note that he has a fair imagination for writing stories. This will be my last comment on that topic. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroE: Originally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By AeroE: Originally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By ludder093: Originally Posted By AROKIE: .... Ok, so where is that knowledge? I've read every post and there is ZERO indication of a professional evaluation of the situation. I'm not saying he doesn't have such knowledge; I'm saying that it has not been reflected in his posts in regards to the issue at hand. What we have gotten from RON's posts are the following, in no particular order: 1)That the US has no national interest involved in the outcome of the Russia-Ukraine war. 2)That the level and content of US support damages US security and puts us in danger of losing a hypothetical future war against (probably) China. 3)That Ukraine "is not using the supplied weapons (i.e. HIMARS) properly and relies on emotional appeals to keep the supplies coming," without offering any evidence to back that statement. 4)That Russia is not and never was a threat to us. 5)That vague, hypothetical, and unprovable questions about the potential outcomes of US/Western support should be enough to prevent said support. Whatever this poster's previous experience was, I see no evidence of this experience in his comments on this thread. What I see are no better than opinions which have not been supported by either data, professional experience, or even cogent arguments. I challenge RON or any other poster to show otherwise using his posts on this thread. @RON RON has something only a couple others here possess - he was briefed into and worked on classified artillery and armor programs during his working career. He is bound by those clearances to hold those secrets for the rest of his life, hence the reason I coached him on this topic earlier in this thread. That applies to declassified programs, too. An ambitious prosecutor could go after him for revealing more than something along the lines of, "I work for the Army in artillery projects". What you bring to this thread is fluffy dialog that reads as feasible, but amounts to content good for a fictional novel based on this real event. I wouldn't be surprised that your posts are a very soft attempt at social engineering to learn as many tiny bits and pieces of fact that aid in the assembly of a bigger picture for the purpose of harming US security. You are saying he's a traitor? An actual foreign agent? I think you are attacking him for some unknown reason. And that's a bit much. I wrote that I wouldn't be surprised. Given the art of social engineering, that is reasonable, and his claimed education damn well does reduce my opinion. That is no attack. I simply note that he has a fair imagination for writing stories. This will be my last comment on that topic. Do you have anything to contribute to this thread topic besides your opinions on other posters here? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 7:06:57 PM EDT
[#22]
Jesus.....
|
|
|
|
OK, USA
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 7:14:12 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryThat's some dark comedy, right there. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 7:19:28 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Watching an infrared drop was a twist for me. The interior of the entire hole suddenly got warm. Splat!  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By Mfaux:
Hadn’t seen an update on these til now. One of the 800 Taiwanese “Revolver 860” drones, carrying eight 60mm mortar shells. Fucking shit up in Kherson. Terrifying. Watching an infrared drop was a twist for me. The interior of the entire hole suddenly got warm. Splat! That's what I was saying earlier about trenches. If the enemy has thousands of these things, it won't matter how the Rooskies build their trenches. Period. Full stop. A Revolver dropping actual mortar rounds on you from 100m up, over and over again, thousands of times...your overhead cover better be 10 feet of concrete. Or an invisibility cloak. Ukraine has 800 of them? For real? That's INSANE. Between PGM's, suicide racing drones, and Revolver-type drones, my completely non-expert eye would say the days of static warfare are over. Russia's casualty rate would be a good bit of evidence. I'm certain someone will be along shortly to tell me how I'm wrong. I look forward to it, actually. Learning a lot in this thread.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 7:37:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: theskuh]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kagetora: That's what I was saying earlier about trenches. If the enemy has thousands of these things, it won't matter how the Rooskies build their trenches. Period. Full stop. A Revolver dropping actual mortar rounds on you from 100m up, over and over again, thousands of times...your overhead cover better be 10 feet of concrete. Or an invisibility cloak. Ukraine has 800 of them? For real? That's INSANE. Between PGM's, suicide racing drones, and Revolver-type drones, my completely non-expert eye would say the days of static warfare are over. Russia's casualty rate would be a good bit of evidence. I'm certain someone will be along shortly to tell me how I'm wrong. I look forward to it, actually. Learning a lot in this thread.You would think there has to be some sort of counter in the works. But who knows. I would bet Iran could come up with something. Russia they will just throw men at the problem for the time being. |
|
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 7:40:49 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: I am not a Chinese shill. SO lets pull on that thread. If the USAF and USN are destroyed and cant protect Taiwan from the PLA, how will 155mm batteries and javelins win the war? If the USAF and USN annihilate the Chinese invasion force in the Taiwan Strait and they cant get ashore, and we have US air superiority, how much 155mm do you need? What and where is the decisive point in a Chinese amphib invasion of Taiwan? If repelling an amphibious invasion is not the USNs job, with a supporting role from the USAF, sell the ships off. For years and years in the GWOT, the Navy and USAF were selling A2AD, antiaccess/area-denial. They needed money and resources to build capability because of silkworms and defenders and how hard to maneuver in the littorals. Now we are worrying about an adversary amphib op and we need to pull the plug on the Ukrainians because we cant succeed without giving Army class V to Taiwan. In amphibious operations, if you have sea control and successfully get the landing force ashore, the rate of success is about 95%. Outside Gallipoli, and that weird 1942 thing in Milne Bay, New Guinea, the amphib op almost always works, and if you cant win the sea fight, the amphib op usually gets aborted, so that keeps the batting average up. See: Sealion, Coral Sea, Midway. But you knew that as you are a Marine. And Im not. Funny how the Marines in the audience don't seem to want to get into the weeds of amphibious warfare. The obvious answer is if the USN cant do their job, give the Taiwan mil some nukes. But dont penalize the Ukrainians by pulling the plug, who are killing Russians. I think his point may have been that we will need lots of arty etc for S. Korea or maybe other places that me be hit, other than Taiwan. But I agree 100% the battle for Taiwan will be a missile battle. Missiles between ships, subs, and land bases in Taiwan and China. Once that kicks off, re-supply will likely be impossible. Probably anything with a range less than 150 miles will be of limited use. At least until China has a beachhead in Taiwan. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 7:40:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DKUltra]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Swampgrass: WP? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Swampgrass: Originally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: NSFW. Ukrainian drone drop on Russian soldiers with secondaries from the Russian soldiers.
WTF was that? WP? eta: Ah looks like this has been answered a few times. Dang this thread moves fast. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 7:50:02 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kagetora: … Between PGM's, suicide racing drones, and Revolver-type drones, my completely non-expert eye would say the days of static warfare are over. Russia's casualty rate would be a good bit of evidence. I'm certain someone will be along shortly to tell me how I'm wrong. I look forward to it, actually. Learning a lot in this thread.Expert military theorists first declared the days of static warfare done in the 1880s. But somehow, it just keeps working. ;) Those aren’t “real” trench systems. A few pages back there was a lot of info posted up about how to really do a trench system. The Germans perfected it in WWI, with deep, reinforced dug-out living quarters off the main fighting position as one key element. If that was the Imperial German Army in those trenches, the Ukr drones would not even find them, much less rack up casualties. The issue is lack of leadership and knowledge, and lack of material support, to build effective positions. This was posted a few pages back but is an oversimplified cross-section. Troops stay sheltered and not exposed. Good dugouts will withstand direct hits from 155’s, mortar drones would be a pinprick. This works because the Russian troops are ill-trained and poorly supplied. It wouldn’t work against well-trained and supplied troops, or when automated drone counters are deployed.  Attached File |
|
|
|
OH, USA
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 7:57:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: YaNi05]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By theskuh: You would think there has to be some sort of counter in the works. But who knows. I would bet Iran could come up with something. Russia who knows they will just throw men at the problem for the time being. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By theskuh: Originally Posted By Kagetora: That's what I was saying earlier about trenches. If the enemy has thousands of these things, it won't matter how the Rooskies build their trenches. Period. Full stop. A Revolver dropping actual mortar rounds on you from 100m up, over and over again, thousands of times...your overhead cover better be 10 feet of concrete. Or an invisibility cloak. Ukraine has 800 of them? For real? That's INSANE. Between PGM's, suicide racing drones, and Revolver-type drones, my completely non-expert eye would say the days of static warfare are over. Russia's casualty rate would be a good bit of evidence. I'm certain someone will be along shortly to tell me how I'm wrong. I look forward to it, actually. Learning a lot in this thread.You would think there has to be some sort of counter in the works. But who knows. I would bet Iran could come up with something. Russia who knows they will just throw men at the problem for the time being. The counter to drones has to cost equal or less than the drones themselves. Otherwise it's a war of economics, which is what we've been seeing with the use of SAM's against drones. So this means either lasers or the something like the M230LF firing the XM1198 round.  Live firing EMAV LW30 UGV with Northrop Grumman M230LF 30mm cannon used to counter drones You just need a radar to identify targets so that the air burst fuse can be programmed. A small cannon packs sufficient payload that you likely don't need a direct hit and don't need any fancy guided rounds that cost significantly more. A few 30mm rounds are going to be cheaper than a drone, which helps shift the economics back toward the defenders. The main issue is that these are all very short range, but it would make sense in the future to be able to mount these systems on tanks, APCs, and other combat vehicles. Consider these like another tank active protection system. There should be no excuse to losing a >$6m M1A2 SEP V3 to a flying moped. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 7:58:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: iggy1337]
[#30]
As to the situation in Yurp I might want to add something.
In recent months I've become pretty much obsessed with Russian propaganda aimed at the West. I'very interested in how the talking points of the day are spread on channels and make the jub from purely Russian propaganda to sometimes genuine fringe/alternative news sources. Also watching the changes in Russian strategy and they move to a new story arch angle is enlessly interesting. Anyway I have noticed sinse the Kherson defeat the overeaching Russian story arc changed from things like 'Winning everyware', 'Europe wil freeze' and 'whatabout the nukes on Japan' to 1. US/Euro allience breaking and Europe is economically doomed. 2. Ukrainians will freeze becuase of missile barrage. 3. Just wait to the fresh mobilized troops show up. (4. Ye old timey 'Bakhmut wil fall tommow' ) Yes it sucks that energy prices suck but I they are over half made up out of punitative energy taxes put in place for the lunatic green fringe of European politics. Everybody normal person I have very spoken to blames RUSSIA for the current shit. There is no NATO break in resolve and the the non psycopathic part of the Euro population does not prefere new sneakers/car ect if it means the abandoning free people to a tyrant. As far as armaments goes the orders are being placed on a massive scale and the only people that would complain about it are the standarde peaceniks that nobody listens to anyway. The most teeth grinding about placeing defence orders has honestly been in GD of course completly ignoreing that Americans are employed in the US defence industry. Yes there are looney fringe groupes on left and right that have been succesfully by Russia but we are talking the abosolute fringe. Pro Russian chanels also like to link every fringe group protest to be a protest against aiding Ukraine. The for instance the French ALWAYS are striking and rioting about something. Other YouTube'ers just plainly lie about what's going on, the other day that US/Romanian cunt was claiming some kind of bullshit about NL that is simply not there. Just my 2 cents and people shouln't be so fast to assume rifts ect becuase that currently IS part of the Russian IW strategy |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 8:00:05 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Swampgrass: WP? Probably a HE setting of rpg boosters |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 8:02:19 PM EDT
[#32]
|
|
|
|
ND, USA
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 8:02:57 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ar-jedi:
Bunny Boots! I remember stomping around in them! |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 8:09:59 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Expert military theorists first declared the days of static warfare done in the 1880s. But somehow, it just keeps working. ;) Those aren’t “real” trench systems. A few pages back there was a lot of info posted up about how to really do a trench system. The Germans perfected it in WWI, with deep, reinforced dug-out living quarters off the main fighting position as one key element. If that was the Imperial German Army in those trenches, the Ukr drones would not even find them, much less rack up casualties. The issue is lack of leadership and knowledge, and lack of material support, to build effective positions. This was posted a few pages back but is an oversimplified cross-section. Troops stay sheltered and not exposed. Good dugouts will withstand direct hits from 155’s, mortar drones would be a pinprick. This works because the Russian troops are ill-trained and poorly supplied. It wouldn’t work against well-trained and supplied troops, or when automated drone counters are deployed. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/556465/04B7B1C3-67F8-4E42-9CAE-B3D41526F652_jpe-2616136.JPG Right, I get that those trenches would protect you from the Revolvers overhead, but what about the little hunter-killer kamikaze drones flying through the trenches? I guess you'd be putting up netting everywhere too, then having to get your own troops through it... Just seems like a real nightmare. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 8:11:47 PM EDT
[#35]
My understanding is that they used RAP “smart” type shells with drone correction to hit snake island from beaches/dunes near the Romanian border. With a favorable wind. Some types of barges might work in very calm water like a bay (Kherson) but I wouldn’t expect it in the Black Sea. Not the Atlantic but still has quiet a bit of chop.
|
|
|
|
NV, USA
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 8:15:39 PM EDT
[#36]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 8:16:16 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 74HC: EU whiners going off on US defense industry making money, WTF NATO tit suckers? Do they expect that USA taxpayer dollars should not go to purchase US equipment for Ukraine, but only purchase from their defense industry? Do they expect USA taxpayers to subsidize US gas exports to EU? Three things I warned you guys here early in this thread: 1- War fatigue will happen in EU 2- Germany is only for Germany 3- Most member countries see NATO as an insurance for their defense only. https://www.zerohedge.com/political/eu-accuses-washington-making-fortune-ukraine-war EU Accuses Washington Of Making A Fortune From Ukraine War "Nine months after invading Ukraine, Vladimir Putin is beginning to fracture the West," Politico observes in a surprising admission which marks a stark reversal from prior mainstream media optimism and cheerleading of the White House's blank check approach to supporting Ukraine. "Top European officials are furious with Joe Biden's administration and now accuse the Americans of making a fortune from the war, while EU countries suffer." There's clearly growing frustration among European officials over Washington's refusal to push the Zelensky government to the negotiating table while an unprecedented billions worth of weaponry and defense aid pours in, risking unpredictable escalation between NATO and Russia. Meanwhile European populations will continue being the first to pay the price amid frigid winter temperatures and a simultaneous severe energy supply crisis even as some leaders still spout abstract ideals of "sacrifice". ... A senior European official speaking to Politico additionally blasted the White House policy of in effect using the Ukraine war to line the pockets of American defense contractors while at the same turning a deaf ear on European pleas for some relief to the no-win situation. "The fact is, if you look at it soberly, the country that is most profiting from this war is the U.S. because they are selling more gas and at higher prices, and because they are selling more weapons," the senior official said. The person acknowledged a large-scale shift in sentiment happening, largely driven by the intractable 'win in Ukraine at all costs' stance of the US administration: The explosive comments backed in public and private by officials, diplomats and ministers elsewhere follow mounting anger in Europe over American subsidies that threaten to wreck European industry. The Kremlin is likely to welcome the poisoning of the atmosphere among Western allies. "We are really at a historic juncture," the senior EU official said, arguing that the double hit of trade disruption from U.S. subsidies and high energy prices risks turning public opinion against both the war effort and the transatlantic alliance. "America needs to realize that public opinion is shifting in many EU countries." But the US National Security Council has lately reiterated its position that the crisis is solely on Putin's shoulders full-stop, while Washington is simply presenting ramped-up US liquefied natural gas delivery to Europe as fulfilling the need to "diversify away from Russia," according to a NSC statement. ... Another EU diplomat cited in the Politico report described that Biden's $369 billion industrial subsidy scheme to support green industries as part of the Inflation Reduction Act unleashed panic across European capitals. "The Inflation Reduction Act has changed everything," the EU diplomat said. "Is Washington still our ally or not?" This rising fury could spill into the streets as more European households are likely to experience shortages in electricity and heat this winter, further intensifying the pressure on EU politicians. Full article in the link above. Please don’t post Russian propaganda here unless noted as such. Zero Hedge is an arm of the GRU and Kremlin look it up. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 8:16:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CharlieR]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kagetora: #2. To everyone pointing out how bad the Russians are at building trenches, and giving examples of how it's "properly done," isn't the brand-new horror of drone warfare the major difference? I gather a proper trench system includes a line of uncovered fighting trenches, backed by a line of partially covered rear trenches for resting, regrouping, etc., followed by more uncovered trenches connecting everything and used for rapid movement and such. I'm thinking ANYTIME you left the overhead cover, you'd eat a grenade. So, other than building trenches that are completely, 100% covered, IS there a correct way to make the trenches work given the absolute ridiculousness that warfare has become, with makeshift grenades dropped by modified off-the-shelf children's toys flying overhead? I'm starting to have my doubts. And it's only going to get worse, as soon everyone is going to be using purpose-made drones dropping purpose-made ordnance as opposed to kids toys and modified rifle grenades, ala that Revolver drone or whatever it's called. Are trenches in general now obsolete? Can they be made to work? In general, if you are on the move, and stop for a little, you do a hasty fighting position. Like this:  In WWII, US infantry more or less dug a two man hole in the ground. The "foxhole."  Neither take too long, both are vulnerable to UAVs. Nowadays we do overhead cover. We also have fought Eastern enemies like the Japanese, NVA, that use bunkers. Basically, dig a hole, say 6x6x4, then use logs to make a small mound and complete overhead cover. This would be very effective in hiding, good against artillery, proof against drones.  Here are some WWII dogfaces who stole some lumber and built overhead cover. GIs liked overhead cover as it keeps you dry, and warm. But again, HE and artillery is a thing.  One of the big problems with a trench is it sticks out like a sore thumb. People facing the US and our air superiority and our artillery dont use trenches. A string of little holes is far easier to camouflage then one continuous line. See below:  The big advantages of trenches is you can keep everyone underground and if you are at close range, you can move around, and leaders can circulate and check up on troops without exposing themselves. If you must dig a trench, then dont fight in it. On the friendly side, dig a small trench at right angles, maybe 4-5 feet, then dig a hole and roof that over. That's your dugout. Then stay in that if you hear a drone. Something UAV proof. While we're on the subject, its weather proof. Dugouts were pretty common in WWI, everyone had one, for command posts and big artillery bombardments, and in fact infantry were trained to stay right behind that artillery so you can follow up before the enemy can "get out of the dugout" Lets take a look at a WWI trench. Notice the defenders had a "Concrete blockhouse" which nowadays would be a bunker made of sand, and camouflaged, and also their main trench has a dugout.  Here's another one, with dugout:  What I see: We see lots of Russians building hasties, or even foxholes. The UAVs are slaughtering them. We also see Russians killed in trenches, also by UAVs. I've seen a few Russians in what look like dugouts, or fighting positions with shit for sectors of fire but at least they have roofs. Id say go with a bunker, or a trench is okay if you have dugouts ALSO, or better yet, a trench is okay if you build some fighting bunkers on the enemy side, and some dugouts on the friendly side, and use the trench to move back and forth on. So picture a trench line, and every 20 meters or so, on the friendly side, build one of these numbers. Have the little access trench in the corner of the dugout so you can hunker away from the opening when UAV man comes a calling. But if you dont camouflage it really good, flush with the earth, then some excalibur with delayed fuses will crack them open.  Some may argue a bunker is hard to camouflage and I can see that if facing armor, may be a bad idea. Here are some Marines in Korea in 1952. Obviously this is a trench, but you can see two fighting bunkers, that would protect you from artillery, UAVs, and if you really had to you could heat up and not die of hypothermia. Notice the closer one is "flush" with the ground and harder to spot then the far one.  This is a basecamp in Vietnam, notice the trenches connect bunkers and while these could be camouflaged better, they are big enough that if you stay away from the doorway you could avoid the UAVs. This is pretty much textbook, you ask me. Although if you had to worry about artillery and UAVs, then camouflage these really good and forget the trenches.  As I posted before, in WWII in Finland and in the Eastern front, everybody in subzero temperatures liked trenches, with a dugout behind, to prevent hypothermia Although the GIs stayed in their two man foxholes. That can be hazardous if you are an NCO checking up on the troops. It also sucks if you are in a two man foxhole and you need to go to the latrine and there is a sniper nearby. Usually you suffered until nightfall. Here is a movie excerpt, called Talvisota, go to 1:09:00 and check it out.  Failed To Load Title I would say as UAVs get better and more capable, trenches attract fire like sore thumbs, and you really need to get better at overhead cover and camouflage. Or hide in urban areas. That vidoe I posted yesterday from twitter is really the best way to do it. You need to protect your guys from the elements, enemy fire, and observation. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 8:16:27 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Do we have mods? |
|
|
|
WI, USA
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 8:18:22 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 74HC: EU whiners going off on US defense industry making money, WTF NATO tit suckers? Do they expect that USA taxpayer dollars should not go to purchase US equipment for Ukraine, but only purchase from their defense industry? Do they expect USA taxpayers to subsidize US gas exports to EU? Three things I warned you guys here early in this thread: 1- War fatigue will happen in EU 2- Germany is only for Germany 3- Most member countries see NATO as an insurance for their defense only. https://www.zerohedge.com/political/eu-accuses-washington-making-fortune-ukraine-war EU Accuses Washington Of Making A Fortune From Ukraine War "Nine months after invading Ukraine, Vladimir Putin is beginning to fracture the West," Politico observes in a surprising admission which marks a stark reversal from prior mainstream media optimism and cheerleading of the White House's blank check approach to supporting Ukraine. "Top European officials are furious with Joe Biden's administration and now accuse the Americans of making a fortune from the war, while EU countries suffer." There's clearly growing frustration among European officials over Washington's refusal to push the Zelensky government to the negotiating table while an unprecedented billions worth of weaponry and defense aid pours in, risking unpredictable escalation between NATO and Russia. Meanwhile European populations will continue being the first to pay the price amid frigid winter temperatures and a simultaneous severe energy supply crisis even as some leaders still spout abstract ideals of "sacrifice". ... A senior European official speaking to Politico additionally blasted the White House policy of in effect using the Ukraine war to line the pockets of American defense contractors while at the same turning a deaf ear on European pleas for some relief to the no-win situation. "The fact is, if you look at it soberly, the country that is most profiting from this war is the U.S. because they are selling more gas and at higher prices, and because they are selling more weapons," the senior official said. The person acknowledged a large-scale shift in sentiment happening, largely driven by the intractable 'win in Ukraine at all costs' stance of the US administration: The explosive comments backed in public and private by officials, diplomats and ministers elsewhere follow mounting anger in Europe over American subsidies that threaten to wreck European industry. The Kremlin is likely to welcome the poisoning of the atmosphere among Western allies. "We are really at a historic juncture," the senior EU official said, arguing that the double hit of trade disruption from U.S. subsidies and high energy prices risks turning public opinion against both the war effort and the transatlantic alliance. "America needs to realize that public opinion is shifting in many EU countries." But the US National Security Council has lately reiterated its position that the crisis is solely on Putin's shoulders full-stop, while Washington is simply presenting ramped-up US liquefied natural gas delivery to Europe as fulfilling the need to "diversify away from Russia," according to a NSC statement. ... Another EU diplomat cited in the Politico report described that Biden's $369 billion industrial subsidy scheme to support green industries as part of the Inflation Reduction Act unleashed panic across European capitals. "The Inflation Reduction Act has changed everything," the EU diplomat said. "Is Washington still our ally or not?" This rising fury could spill into the streets as more European households are likely to experience shortages in electricity and heat this winter, further intensifying the pressure on EU politicians. Full article in the link above. Hogwash. Did Europe lose their stuff when Obama spent billions on "green energy subsidies"? No. This is contrived to drive a wedge. And it's not like Europe couldn't cash in on defense deliveries. Oh wait, they let their defense sector languish badly. LOL! |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 8:19:29 PM EDT
[#41]
|
|
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 8:19:49 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnka871: Some sort of incendiary grenade I think A page or so ago, there was a link that had an explanation: It was an RPG team in the trench and some of the extra boosters ignited after the grenade hit. The RPG booster looks like a road flare that gets screwed on to the rear of the RPG rocket. It blows the rocket out like a recoilless rifle round. Anyway, it is sensitive like the little charges on the rear on mortar rounds which have also produced secondaries in our vids. |
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 8:20:09 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kagetora: Right, I get that those trenches would protect you from the Revolvers overhead, but what about the little hunter-killer kamikaze drones flying through the trenches? I guess you'd be putting up netting everywhere too, then having to get your own troops through it... Just seems like a real nightmare. Two birds with one stone: Reinforced camo netting. |
|
|
WI, USA
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 8:20:36 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroE: My derailing rate is about 10 to many hundreds of posts from the 5 or 6 prolific writers that need to hear their heads rattling with nothing but speculation and fantasy. Read the posts immediately before and after your complaint for off topic examples. This thread might be improved with really fine derails. It certainly would be shorter with less self gratifying bull. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroE: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By AeroE: @Capta @RON RON has something only a couple others here possess - he was briefed into and worked on classified artillery and armor programs during his working career. He is bound by those clearances to hold those secrets for the rest of his life, hence the reason I coached him on this topic earlier in this thread. That applies to declassified programs, too. An ambitious prosecutor could go after him for revealing more than something along the lines of, "I work for the Army in artillery projects". What you bring to this thread is fluffy dialog that reads as feasible, but amounts to content good for a fictional novel based on this real event. I wouldn't be surprised that your posts are a very soft attempt at social engineering to learn as many tiny bits and pieces of fact that aid in the assembly of a bigger picture for the purpose of harming US security. Enough of the sideshow. Take what anybody says and dismiss it if you will, but enough derailing the thread. Read the posts immediately before and after your complaint for off topic examples. This thread might be improved with really fine derails. It certainly would be shorter with less self gratifying bull. Aero, my post was not directed only at you, but on the entire R0N distraction sideshow. Sorry that wasn't clear. No, you are NOT the only one derailing. My comment was that everybody should leave off with that. |
|
|
NC, USA
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 8:20:44 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vahog: Ouch. A Marine is going to bring up Wake Island. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vahog: Originally Posted By CharlieR: ... In amphibious operations, if you have sea control and successfully get the landing force ashore, the rate of success is about 95%. Outside Gallipoli, and that weird 1942 thing in Milne Bay, New Guinea, the amphib op almost always works, and if you cant win the sea fight, the amphib op usually gets aborted, so that keeps the batting average up. See: Sealion, Coral Sea, Midway. But you knew that as you are a Marine. And Im not. Funny how the Marines in the audience don't seem to want to get into the weeds of amphibious warfare. ... Ouch. A Marine is going to bring up Wake Island. The Marine Defense Battalion did a wonderful job at Wake, but they did not have any aviation or naval assets available so the Japanese jus came back and finished the job. I see the new Marine Corps of small island bases spread across the first island chain to be a modern implementation of the original pre-WW2 pacific plan that failed miserably. I also see it to be just as doomed to failure as that concept was. 100-150 Marines on an island with some air defense(maybe 20-30 stingers or part of a NASAM with 1-2 launchers) and a few of the new remote anti-ship launchers (NMESIS) with two missiles each isn't really going to even be a speed bump. Maybe an advance arning system as their sensors see the attack coming. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 8:22:32 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: I would say as UAVs get better and more capable, trenches attract fire like sore thumbs, and you really need to get better at overhead cover and camouflage. Or hide in urban areas. Even if you have a good hooch and light a fire in your hooch or have a stove, thermal can see you. Hell, it can see you from your own body heat depending on what the R-value of anything between you and it is. Thermal's getting cheaper and more common (in western systems, at least), so you'll need rock-solid thermal shielding to survive against swarms of mortar-dropping, thermal-sighted drones. Fieldcraft training should include wrapping anything and everything with those mylar space blankets and incorporating that tech into camo nets, tents, field structures and improvised construction around forward positions. |
|
|
|
NV, USA
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 8:23:40 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kagetora: Drone warfare is terrifying. We're only seeing the infancy of it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kagetora: Originally Posted By SoCalExile: Yes, because ultimately contact between forward units and their command is determined by the ability for a runner or resupply to reach. Sure you can talk on a radio but if you're still cut off from physically going between those points you're screwed. The issue is and has always been overhead cover, concealment, and defense in depth, along with proper drainage. They simply aren't doing those things. WWI trenches:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgykKEhfEok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P92guhd7d-8Drone warfare is terrifying. We're only seeing the infancy of it. I imagine we're going to look back at Afghanistan and Iraq, with its IEDs, RPGs, and small arms, as 'the good old days' pretty soon. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 8:24:07 PM EDT
[#48]
Chatter on other Twitter accounts mentioned Russians moving missile systems for another attack. |
|
|
|
VA, USA
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 8:27:11 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iggy1337: As to the situation in Yurp I might want to add something. In recent months I've become pretty much obsessed with Russian propaganda aimed at the West. I'very interested in how the talking points of the day are spread on channels and make the jub from purely Russian propaganda to sometimes genuine fringe/alternative news sources. Also watching the changes in Russian strategy and they move to a new story arch angle is enlessly interesting. Anyway I have noticed sinse the Kherson defeat the overeaching Russian story arc changed from things like 'Winning everyware', 'Europe wil freeze' and 'whatabout the nukes on Japan' to 1. US/Euro allience breaking and Europe is economically doomed. 2. Ukrainians will freeze becuase of missile barrage. 3. Just wait to the fresh mobilized troops show up. (4. Ye old timey 'Bakhmut wil fall tommow' ) Yes it sucks that energy prices suck but I they are over half made up out of punitative energy taxes put in place for the lunatic green fringe of European politics. Everybody normal person I have very spoken to blames RUSSIA for the current shit. There is no NATO break in resolve and the the non psycopathic part of the Euro population does not prefere new sneakers/car ect if it means the abandoning free people to a tyrant. As far as armaments goes the orders are being placed on a massive scale and the only people that would complain about it are the standarde peaceniks that nobody listens to anyway. The most teeth grinding about placeing defence orders has honestly been in GD of course completly ignoreing that Americans are employed in the US defence industry. Yes there are looney fringe groupes on left and right that have been succesfully by Russia but we are talking the abosolute fringe. Pro Russian chanels also like to link every fringe group protest to be a protest against aiding Ukraine. The for instance the French ALWAYS are striking and rioting about something. Other YouTube'ers just plainly lie about what's going on, the other day that US/Romanian cunt was claiming some kind of bullshit about NL that is simply not there. Just my 2 cents and people shouln't be so fast to assume rifts ect becuase that currently IS part of the Russian IW strategy I stopped believing anything a talking head says during the clinton years. Its all bullshit! |
|
|
NV, USA
|
Posted: 11/27/2022 8:35:02 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: The article is paywalled. Can anybody post the text? Looks interesting. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By Prime:
The article is paywalled. Can anybody post the text? Looks interesting. Archive will bypass pretty much every paywall: https://archive.ph/dvE46 excerpts: In Putin’s Russia, there are many ways to define defeat. For its military leadership, defeat is an accumulation of battlefield setbacks; for the nationalist hard-liners, it entails allowing Ukraine’s “anti-Russia” state to exist at all; and for the security services, it means losing a major Russian confrontation with the West. For the regular elites, it means anything that threatens their personal and political security. But for almost all of Russia’s main constituencies, including the realists, withdrawing Russian forces to their pre-invasion lines of control would meet their criteria. Such a move would not only mark the end of Russian influence over Ukraine but also usher in a humiliating new geopolitical reality for Moscow. And to Russia’s elites, a withdrawal would be more than humiliating; it would be dangerous. They do not think that if they simply agree to withdraw to Russia’s pre-February 24 positions and negotiate to control parts of Donetsk and Luhansk they can reconcile with Ukraine. They don’t believe that Moscow can end hostilities without risking losing Crimea. In fact, they believe that if Russia withdrew its troops to where they were at the start of 2022 it would leave Russia itself vulnerable to collapse. As Dmitri Trenin, the former director of the (now-shuttered) Carnegie Moscow, wrote in May, “the strategic defeat” that the West “is preparing for Russia” means that “the theater of the ‘hybrid war’ will simply move from Ukraine further east, into the borders of Russia itself, the existence of which in its current form will be in question.” On Russian telegram channels, many Russians have implied that the West would insist on dismissing Putin as a part of possible agreement. Many conservatives believe that if Putin fell as a result of such a deal, his regime would eventually be followed by a more pro-Western government that would betray Russia’s strategic interests and allow the country to physically disintegrate. To put it simply, the Russian elite sees the war against Ukraine not as expansionary but as a war for self-preservation. ... Today’s political mainstream consists of a rising univocal, powerful, and intolerant pro-war movement for which the invasion is existential. To them, victory must be secured by all means possible—including through nuclear weapons. They see no place for peace initiatives. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
