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Posted: 3/27/2022 10:30:52 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iggy1337: At least one or two puppet mayors are now pining for the fjords. As the founding father knew 2A is really the guarantee of the security of free state https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10571663/Pro-Russian-mayor-city-eastern-Ukraine-shot-dead-kidnapped-home.html "The pro-Russian mayor of a city in eastern Ukraine , Vlodymyr Struk, (pictured) who welcomed President Vladimir Putin's invasion was 'shot dead' after being kidnapped from his home, it has been announced" https://brazilurgente.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/274734091_3231034447117934_7300848911315950702_n.jpg |
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USA
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Posted: 3/27/2022 10:31:18 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: The US *made* Russia invade Ukraine, is that it? WE made them bomb Ukrainian civilians and turn their towns into rubble? You sound like the kind of guy that would blame the battered woman for bringing the beatings on herself... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: Originally Posted By nightstalker: https://twitter.com/kimdotcom/status/1508009061564166147?s=21&t=Em_YnIAvysTMAXqZ-9cmVg Pretty much what I think is going on The US *made* Russia invade Ukraine, is that it? WE made them bomb Ukrainian civilians and turn their towns into rubble? You sound like the kind of guy that would blame the battered woman for bringing the beatings on herself... 
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Posted: 3/27/2022 10:32:45 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eight_Ring: Great, Adolph. Read Article 5 of the NATO Charter, and understand if any NATO signatories come under attack you will get fucking chimp-stomped by every piece of First World military technology the Free World has to offer. If you need a list of signatories, just ask. Have a nice night. There's the treaty, and then there's actually following through on what it says. Do you trust President Potato (or Germany, France, etc.) to actually do it? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2022 10:32:53 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eight_Ring: Great, Adolph. Read Article 5 of the NATO Charter, and understand if any NATO signatories come under attack you will get fucking chimp-stomped by every piece of First World military technology the Free World has to offer. If you need a list of signatories, just ask. Have a nice night. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eight_Ring: Originally Posted By Phocks: All I want is to protect the ethnic Germans in Sudetenland from Czech maltreatment. That's all, I certainly don't intend to occupy the whole country. I promise. Great, Adolph. Read Article 5 of the NATO Charter, and understand if any NATO signatories come under attack you will get fucking chimp-stomped by every piece of First World military technology the Free World has to offer. If you need a list of signatories, just ask. Have a nice night. MASH had an episode on 5 o'clock Charlie. Was this annoying North Korean in a biplane that dropped one bomb every morning a five. This thread is starting to get that feel. |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 10:33:14 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DANGERRUSS: It’s very sad that Ukraine is paying in blood for our stolen election. Because of our weak and inconsistent message the bully that is Putin moved. The only way to stop a bully is to stand up to them. If they knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that we would destroy them they would back down. They don’t believe that the puppet masters who run the clown show in DC will or at best it would be a limited response. |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 10:33:22 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nightstalker: https://twitter.com/kimdotcom/status/1508009061564166147?s=21&t=Em_YnIAvysTMAXqZ-9cmVg Pretty much what I think is going on That’s one of the dumbest takes on this yet. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/27/2022 10:36:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Timeflies]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Veccio: Agreed, and sadly there are many others (quite a few even here in GD) that believe that garbage. There's a bunch of right grifters on twitter and other media that have lost their minds they are so ate up with propaganda. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Veccio: Originally Posted By kncook: Sorry dude, but everything in that sounded absolutely retarded. Putin protecting the Russians from the US "ransacking" the Russian state? Ok genius. Is this the Russo-Ukrainian war thread? |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 10:37:06 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zam18th: Originally Posted By nightstalker: https://twitter.com/kimdotcom/status/1508009061564166147?s=21&t=Em_YnIAvysTMAXqZ-9cmVg Pretty much what I think is going on It must be disorienting for you to be exposed to an analysis which explores ideas beyond Putin bad/Putin Hitler. Read George Kennan's interview with the New York Times about NATO eastward expansion. You know who George Kennan was, right? And presumably all the never-Trumpers and Russia Collusion folks in the thread are cool with Thomas Friedman? https://www.nytimes.com/1998/05/02/opinion/foreign-affairs-now-a-word-from-x.html |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2022 10:37:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shenanigunz: That’s one of the dumbest takes on this yet. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shenanigunz: Originally Posted By nightstalker: https://twitter.com/kimdotcom/status/1508009061564166147?s=21&t=Em_YnIAvysTMAXqZ-9cmVg Pretty much what I think is going on That’s one of the dumbest takes on this yet. Kim “needs to lay off the Doritos” dotcom never passes up a chance to whine about the US since our justice department shit all over him |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 10:39:39 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Amazing clip:
And overall great (37 post) thread on how sanctions will begin the unraveling of Russia:
the kicker: https://i.ibb.co/4V7WSg4/Screen-Shot-2022-03-27-at-9-17-03-PM.png There's some scary stuff in there. While authoritarian Russia is bad for the world, chaotic and destabilized Russia is bad, too. Global peace and stability need a stable, FREE, Russia. And the US can't impose that from outside, or even help much. |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 10:41:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Eight_Ring]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: There's the treaty, and then there's actually following through on what it says. Do you trust President Potato (or Germany, France, etc.) to actually do it? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: Originally Posted By Eight_Ring: Great, Adolph. Read Article 5 of the NATO Charter, and understand if any NATO signatories come under attack you will get fucking chimp-stomped by every piece of First World military technology the Free World has to offer. If you need a list of signatories, just ask. Have a nice night. There's the treaty, and then there's actually following through on what it says. Do you trust President Potato (or Germany, France, etc.) to actually do it? Well, if they didn't, the entire Western alliance would collapse--so I'd have to go with Yes. Are you saying that Putin would be willing to test us? Are you saying that Russia--who can (apparently) barely match chips with penniless clusterfuck Ukraine--would stand a chance against even a handful of NATO countries? |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 10:42:17 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eight_Ring: It must be disorienting for you to be exposed to an analysis which explores ideas beyond Putin bad/Putin Hitler. Read George Kennan's interview with the New York Times about NATO eastward expansion. You know who George Kennan was, right? And presumably all the never-Trumpers and Russia Collusion folks in the thread are cool with Thomas Friedman? https://www.nytimes.com/1998/05/02/opinion/foreign-affairs-now-a-word-from-x.html Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eight_Ring: Originally Posted By Zam18th: Originally Posted By nightstalker: https://twitter.com/kimdotcom/status/1508009061564166147?s=21&t=Em_YnIAvysTMAXqZ-9cmVg Pretty much what I think is going on It must be disorienting for you to be exposed to an analysis which explores ideas beyond Putin bad/Putin Hitler. Read George Kennan's interview with the New York Times about NATO eastward expansion. You know who George Kennan was, right? And presumably all the never-Trumpers and Russia Collusion folks in the thread are cool with Thomas Friedman? https://www.nytimes.com/1998/05/02/opinion/foreign-affairs-now-a-word-from-x.html Nice paywall link. This Victoria Nuland leaked call says it all. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2022 10:42:19 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DANGERRUSS: It’s very sad that Ukraine is paying in blood for our stolen election. Because of our weak and inconsistent message the bully that is Putin moved. The only way to stop a bully is to stand up to them. If they knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that we would destroy them they would back down. They don’t believe that the puppet masters who run the clown show in DC will or at best it would be a limited response. What stolen election ??? 2016 when Putin helped Trump !!! |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 10:43:15 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shenanigunz: That’s one of the dumbest takes on this yet. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shenanigunz: Originally Posted By nightstalker: https://twitter.com/kimdotcom/status/1508009061564166147?s=21&t=Em_YnIAvysTMAXqZ-9cmVg Pretty much what I think is going on That’s one of the dumbest takes on this yet. Let's not forget who Kim Dotcom is, where he's from, and why he might have more than a little grudge against the US. Just sayin... |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 10:43:38 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilinEd: Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilinEd: Originally Posted By DANGERRUSS: It’s very sad that Ukraine is paying in blood for our stolen election. Because of our weak and inconsistent message the bully that is Putin moved. The only way to stop a bully is to stand up to them. If they knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that we would destroy them they would back down. They don’t believe that the puppet masters who run the clown show in DC will or at best it would be a limited response. You want us to fire on Russia? |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 10:46:47 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Veccio: Agreed, and sadly there are many others (quite a few even here in GD) that believe that garbage. There's a bunch of right grifters on twitter and other media that have lost their minds they are so ate up with propaganda. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Veccio: Originally Posted By kncook: Sorry dude, but everything in that sounded absolutely retarded. Putin protecting the Russians from the US "ransacking" the Russian state? Ok genius. There are a lot of people here that I'm 100% sure they would wholeheartedly be on Russia's side if Russia invaded the US under the guise of "liberating Americans from nazis/communists." |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 10:46:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ISEEYOU2: What stolen election ??? 2016 when Putin helped Trump !!! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ISEEYOU2: Originally Posted By DANGERRUSS: It’s very sad that Ukraine is paying in blood for our stolen election. Because of our weak and inconsistent message the bully that is Putin moved. The only way to stop a bully is to stand up to them. If they knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that we would destroy them they would back down. They don’t believe that the puppet masters who run the clown show in DC will or at best it would be a limited response. What stolen election ??? 2016 when Putin helped Trump !!! Ah. There it is. |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 10:48:41 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CenterMass762: There are a lot of people here that I'm 100% sure they would wholeheartedly be on Russia's side if Russia invaded the US under the guise of "liberating Americans from nazis/communists." Its pretty sad. |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 10:51:08 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: The US *made* Russia invade Ukraine, is that it? WE made them bomb Ukrainian civilians and turn their towns into rubble? You sound like the kind of guy that would blame the battered woman for bringing the beatings on herself... I'm sure it was the entire world that made all of russias neighbors worry about russia invading them. It's not remotely a stretch to say that the entire world would have absolutely loved russia to be cooperative with the rest of the world and have the people of russia become prosperous as a result. |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 10:51:35 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kuhndog: Meh… the Germans systematically killed millions of people in their concentration camps, killed hundreds of thousands in mass graves. Only about 3k were ever tried, and most got off light (no death penalty and less than 20 years). I trust NATO to try Russian war criminals about as much as I trust a fart after 10 Taco Bell burritos and 10 shots of crappy tequila. I meant Ukraine trying them for, say, conspiracy to commit murder. |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 10:53:18 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: I'm sure it was the entire world that made all of russias neighbors worry about russia invading them. It's not remotely a stretch to say that the entire world would have absolutely loved russia to be cooperative with the rest of the world and have the people of russia become prosperous as a result. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Originally Posted By Zhukov: The US *made* Russia invade Ukraine, is that it? WE made them bomb Ukrainian civilians and turn their towns into rubble? You sound like the kind of guy that would blame the battered woman for bringing the beatings on herself... I'm sure it was the entire world that made all of russias neighbors worry about russia invading them. It's not remotely a stretch to say that the entire world would have absolutely loved russia to be cooperative with the rest of the world and have the people of russia become prosperous as a result.  Attached File |
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USA
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Posted: 3/27/2022 10:53:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HIPPO]
[#22]
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Posted: 3/27/2022 10:56:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Eight_Ring]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CenterMass762: There are a lot of people here that I'm 100% sure they would wholeheartedly be on Russia's side if Russia invaded the US under the guise of "liberating Americans from nazis/communists." Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CenterMass762: Originally Posted By Veccio: Originally Posted By kncook: Sorry dude, but everything in that sounded absolutely retarded. Putin protecting the Russians from the US "ransacking" the Russian state? Ok genius. There are a lot of people here that I'm 100% sure they would wholeheartedly be on Russia's side if Russia invaded the US under the guise of "liberating Americans from nazis/communists." "A lot"? Really? You're out of your mind. You should actually try exploring the architecture of other people's beliefs instead of projecting your straw-man bullshit on them. You might discover a startling amount of agreement on most points of reference. |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 10:58:39 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: He's saying essentially that if "The Great Power known as Russia" TM can't subdue little Ukraine, then the mythos of Russian Power/ Greatness will be shattered irrevocably, and they will be on their way as a worthless power and heading toward the dustbin of history. Basically he's saying if they can't take Ukraine, any future threat against NATO or the US will seem utterly absurd. And it was their ability to threaten NATO/US that have Russia its Gravitas and domestic legitimacy for the last 70+ years. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Originally Posted By Birddog15: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Amazing clip:
And overall great (37 post) thread on how sanctions will begin the unraveling of Russia:
If that first clip is from a pro Putin talk show, then I guess what he is saying is that it must either be total victory over Ukraine, or the end of Russia. Am I understanding that correctly? He's saying essentially that if "The Great Power known as Russia" TM can't subdue little Ukraine, then the mythos of Russian Power/ Greatness will be shattered irrevocably, and they will be on their way as a worthless power and heading toward the dustbin of history. Basically he's saying if they can't take Ukraine, any future threat against NATO or the US will seem utterly absurd. And it was their ability to threaten NATO/US that have Russia its Gravitas and domestic legitimacy for the last 70+ years. The perception of power *is* power . . . and the world's perception of Russia is that they couldn't knock over a lemonade stand run by a troop of girl scouts at this point. If they don't win definitively - total surrender without conditions - then they lose. Period. They are setting the stage for escalation. |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 11:00:43 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eight_Ring: And how did you not see that coming? A day may soon be upon us when the possibility of simply having offered Russia guarantees in writing that Ukraine would NOT be incorporated into NATO will seem (in 20/10 retrospect) to be a ten-for-a-nickel bargain. Time will tell. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eight_Ring: Originally Posted By MNGearhead: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Amazing clip:
And overall great (37 post) thread on how sanctions will begin the unraveling of Russia:
The clip in the first tweet, Holy Shit. Putin's people are pushing him "either you win this, or you start the final countdown". And how did you not see that coming? A day may soon be upon us when the possibility of simply having offered Russia guarantees in writing that Ukraine would NOT be incorporated into NATO will seem (in 20/10 retrospect) to be a ten-for-a-nickel bargain. Time will tell. Or, it was Russia that could have and should have seen that outcome, but Putin drove out not only dissent, but voices of caution and prudence. To the extent that Russia is damaged in any way from this disaster, it was 100% self inflicted. And since we know Putin was motivated by imperialism and expansionism, thin was not caused by the West. That was always a phony narrative. Did you not see the maps, the boasting of going on to the Baltics and Poland? For the 8700th time, this wasn't about NATO, it was about the restoration of the USSR. |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 11:00:45 PM EDT
[#26]
I was looking at the Ukrainian presidential advisers twitter and noticed this red and black flag mixed with the Ukrainian flag on his cover photo. What does the red and black mean?
 Attached File |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 11:04:17 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _disconnector_: This. 100%. Great synopsis. The perception of power *is* power . . . and the world's perception of Russia is that they couldn't knock over a lemonade stand run by a troop of girl scouts at this point. If they don't win definitively - total surrender without conditions - then they lose. Period. They are setting the stage for escalation. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _disconnector_: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Originally Posted By Birddog15: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Amazing clip:
And overall great (37 post) thread on how sanctions will begin the unraveling of Russia:
If that first clip is from a pro Putin talk show, then I guess what he is saying is that it must either be total victory over Ukraine, or the end of Russia. Am I understanding that correctly? He's saying essentially that if "The Great Power known as Russia" TM can't subdue little Ukraine, then the mythos of Russian Power/ Greatness will be shattered irrevocably, and they will be on their way as a worthless power and heading toward the dustbin of history. Basically he's saying if they can't take Ukraine, any future threat against NATO or the US will seem utterly absurd. And it was their ability to threaten NATO/US that have Russia its Gravitas and domestic legitimacy for the last 70+ years. The perception of power *is* power . . . and the world's perception of Russia is that they couldn't knock over a lemonade stand run by a troop of girl scouts at this point. If they don't win definitively - total surrender without conditions - then they lose. Period. They are setting the stage for escalation. What other choice do they have? Serious question. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/27/2022 11:07:19 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eight_Ring: It must be disorienting for you to be exposed to an analysis which explores ideas beyond Putin bad/Putin Hitler. Read George Kennan's interview with the New York Times about NATO eastward expansion. You know who George Kennan was, right? And presumably all the never-Trumpers and Russia Collusion folks in the thread are cool with Thomas Friedman? https://www.nytimes.com/1998/05/02/opinion/foreign-affairs-now-a-word-from-x.html Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eight_Ring: Originally Posted By Zam18th: Originally Posted By nightstalker: https://twitter.com/kimdotcom/status/1508009061564166147?s=21&t=Em_YnIAvysTMAXqZ-9cmVg Pretty much what I think is going on It must be disorienting for you to be exposed to an analysis which explores ideas beyond Putin bad/Putin Hitler. Read George Kennan's interview with the New York Times about NATO eastward expansion. You know who George Kennan was, right? And presumably all the never-Trumpers and Russia Collusion folks in the thread are cool with Thomas Friedman? https://www.nytimes.com/1998/05/02/opinion/foreign-affairs-now-a-word-from-x.html The entire NATO angle is such obvious bullshit. The only thing Putin cares about regarding NATO is how much land he can hold without someone invoking article 5. Russian re-expansion goals have been covered countless times in this thread. And the only threat NATO poses is to that expansion. I'm sorry if it's disorienting to explore ideas beyond avoiding upsetting Russia at all costs. If Russia was so severely threatened by a defensive alliance that they were forced to invade a neighboring country and slaughter civilians wholesale, then why did they feel the need to shut down access to all external information and tell their own people fantastical stories about Nazis raping and pillaging across the vast Russian speaking lands that, by the way, 'still belong to Russia.' Why wouldn't they just tell the truth about the evil NATO empire that was coming to destroy their homes and enslave them? |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 11:08:02 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By aeroworksxp: I was looking at the Ukrainian presidential advisers twitter and noticed this red and black flag mixed with the Ukrainian flag on his cover photo. What does the red and black mean? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/327887/20220327_225749_jpg-2328811.JPG I can tell you what Red and Black mean in my tribe. War and Death |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2022 11:08:33 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nightstalker: https://twitter.com/kimdotcom/status/1508009061564166147?s=21&t=Em_YnIAvysTMAXqZ-9cmVg Pretty much what I think is going on |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 11:08:53 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: Sorry dude, but everything in that sounded absolutely retarded. Putin protecting the Russians from the US “ransacking” the Russian state? Ok genius. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: Originally Posted By nightstalker: https://twitter.com/kimdotcom/status/1508009061564166147?s=21&t=Em_YnIAvysTMAXqZ-9cmVg Pretty much what I think is going on Sorry dude, but everything in that sounded absolutely retarded. Putin protecting the Russians from the US “ransacking” the Russian state? Ok genius. It was also internally inconsistent. That person is just an internet chatterbox, not a serious observer or analyst. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2022 11:09:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: j_hooker]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kuhndog: We went to Kyiv, but something went wrong ... Fresh shots from one n.p. in the Kiev region. Judging by the Colorado ribbon caste, one of the dead pig dogs is a Kadyrovite. @LastBP 🛡 | @UA_struggle 🇺🇦 Dead Russian - no gore Not that I really care, but it kinda appears their hands are tied behind their back. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2022 11:09:49 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By aeroworksxp: I was looking at the Ukrainian presidential advisers twitter and noticed this red and black flag mixed with the Ukrainian flag on his cover photo. What does the red and black mean? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/327887/20220327_225749_jpg-2328811.JPG I was told during my time in Ukraine that the red/black flag is the partisan resistance flag from WW2. They fought the Nazis and USSR for independence, but mostly we’re ran over by the onslaught of commies. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2022 11:10:47 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OKnativeson: exactly what I have been saying. the hardliners have a saying.. "what is a world without Russia"..meaning the EMPIRE of old. to them there doesn't need to be a world. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OKnativeson: Originally Posted By MNGearhead: The clip in the first tweet, Holy Shit. Putin's people are pushing him "either you win this, or you start the final countdown". exactly what I have been saying. the hardliners have a saying.. "what is a world without Russia"..meaning the EMPIRE of old. to them there doesn't need to be a world. It's a bunch of hot air. You guys are correct in interpreting what they're saying but it's just the posturing of an already defeated country with delusions of grandeur. Like a toad that puffs itself up to scare away a large predator, they just talk big but are actually collapsing in slow motion. Like I said before Russian imperial adventurism must be stopped with this conflict and not later. The world has allowed them to start wars and invade countries with impunity way too long. This shit needs to end now. If that's the end of the Russian state, well sucks to be them. |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 11:11:31 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By USMCTanker: Sounds like our own dimocRat politicians since the basic CONOP sounds the same. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By USMCTanker: Originally Posted By Drakich: Originally Posted By lorazepam: Originally Posted By Eight_Ring: 2 Questions: 1) What was the objective of the air assault? 2) How do you know that? Take the airport so troops could land and take Kyiv. It was well documented 1000 pages ago. @Eight_Ring See lorazepam's answer. The initial "strategy" apparently - given the opening moves - was a decapitation strike using "shock and awe" missile attacks on select government installations, an air assault attack on the Hostomel airport to be followed up with air mobile VDV troops to seize the capital and government buildings. The expectation was that Zelenski would flee, the UA army would stand down (more or less) within a few days without leadership, and the 200,000 Russian troops would move in largely unopposed as "peacekeepers" after the new puppet government "invited" them in. Instead, the air assault attack took heavy casualties getting to the airport, and after seizing the airport for a little while, were dispersed by the UA counter-attack. Follow-up airmobile forces were shot down by UA air defense or forced to turn back. They didn't have the logistical infrastructure in place to sustain offensive operations for 200,000 troops. While it's hard to articulate the sheer ineptness of the Russians so far, presumably they have a fair idea of what their brigade equivalents burn in turns of supplies, ammo, and fuel when on the offensive. The fact that they didn't stage adequate logistics means either they don't actually have an idea of the necessary logistics, or - the conclusion I prefer - is they actually thought there would be little resistance. It would take some pretty interesting logic to assert that this was the Russian plan all along - lose your best VDV and mobile troops and lose your best equipment only to "conquer" the territory you had already conquered plus killing 100,000 UA civilians. Sounds like our own dimocRat politicians since the basic CONOP sounds the same. Biden was awful quick to offer Zelenski a ride. How deep was he involved? |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 11:13:12 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Or, it was Russia that could have and should have seen that outcome, but Putin drove out not only dissent, but voices of caution and prudence. To the extent that Russia is damaged in any way from this disaster, it was 100% self inflicted. And since we know Putin was motivated by imperialism and expansionism, thin was not caused by the West. That was always a phony narrative. Did you not see the maps, the boasting of going on to the Baltics and Poland? For the 8700th time, this wasn't about NATO, it was about the restoration of the USSR. How is the "restoration of the USSR" going to happen if they can't even competently achieve a victory over Ukraine? If they can't even maintain logistics to support their forces in a neighboring country? Given what is (apparently) known--explain how they are going to take over Poland and the Baltics? Answer--they cant. But what they CAN do is torch the military installations of the free world and every major city with nuclear weapons. That they CAN do. So stop worrying about shit that CAN'T happen and start worrying about shit that CAN happen. Cuz that'd be great. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2022 11:13:43 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iggy1337: At least one or two puppet mayors are now pining for the fjords. As the founding father knew 2A is really the guarantee of the security of free state https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10571663/Pro-Russian-mayor-city-eastern-Ukraine-shot-dead-kidnapped-home.html "The pro-Russian mayor of a city in eastern Ukraine , Vlodymyr Struk, (pictured) who welcomed President Vladimir Putin’s invasion was 'shot dead' after being kidnapped from his home, it has been announced" https://brazilurgente.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/274734091_3231034447117934_7300848911315950702_n.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iggy1337: Originally Posted By weptek911: Originally Posted By iggy1337: I like the fact that one of their installed puppets lasted one day or so before she was popped  Thus is the fait of traitors and with all tose Stingers and ATGMS floating around no puppet should feel safe. Wait, what puppet was popped? I missed that. @iggy1337 At least one or two puppet mayors are now pining for the fjords. As the founding father knew 2A is really the guarantee of the security of free state https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10571663/Pro-Russian-mayor-city-eastern-Ukraine-shot-dead-kidnapped-home.html "The pro-Russian mayor of a city in eastern Ukraine , Vlodymyr Struk, (pictured) who welcomed President Vladimir Putin’s invasion was 'shot dead' after being kidnapped from his home, it has been announced" https://brazilurgente.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/274734091_3231034447117934_7300848911315950702_n.jpg 
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Posted: 3/27/2022 11:14:42 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eight_Ring: It's a shame that the dysfunctional cheerleader vibe in this thread made you feel like a "pussy" for not discounting the very real threat of a nuclear exchange. There is a reason the most responsible architects of American foreign policy were absolutely adamant that direct conflict between the United States should NEVER be allowed to occur. I'm not aware of any war games envisioning such a scenario that ended happily. If anybody knows of one that didn't end in a nightmarish nuclear exchange, absolutely post a link. INRE: Ukraine not being worth a bucket of warm spit, you're not wrong in failing to find a compelling national security interest worth going to war over in Ukraine. As far as I can tell there isn't one. George Kennan himself thought eastward expansion of NATO to be a dangerous folly. So basically you are in good company. Thanks brother, dark times ahead. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2022 11:15:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SpaceGuy]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilinEd: Biden caused Russia to attack Georgia in 2008? Biden caused Russia to annex Crimea in 2014? Biden caused Russia to provide arms and protect the LPR and DPR in 2015? Biden caused Russia to add dozens of BTGs on its Ukrainian border during Trump's administration? Wow. Joe Biden must be the most Machiavellian politician in world history! The whole world's diplomatic choices revolve around Biden pulling troops from Afghanistan which Trump was the one that signed off on! How did Biden make Trump make that choice!?!? |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2022 11:15:09 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: He's saying essentially that if "The Great Power known as Russia" TM can't subdue little Ukraine, then the mythos of Russian Power/ Greatness will be shattered irrevocably, and they will be on their way as a worthless power and heading toward the dustbin of history. Basically he's saying if they can't take Ukraine, any future threat against NATO or the US will seem utterly absurd. And it was their ability to threaten NATO/US that have Russia its Gravitas and domestic legitimacy for the last 70+ years. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Originally Posted By Birddog15: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Amazing clip:
And overall great (37 post) thread on how sanctions will begin the unraveling of Russia:
If that first clip is from a pro Putin talk show, then I guess what he is saying is that it must either be total victory over Ukraine, or the end of Russia. Am I understanding that correctly? He's saying essentially that if "The Great Power known as Russia" TM can't subdue little Ukraine, then the mythos of Russian Power/ Greatness will be shattered irrevocably, and they will be on their way as a worthless power and heading toward the dustbin of history. Basically he's saying if they can't take Ukraine, any future threat against NATO or the US will seem utterly absurd. And it was their ability to threaten NATO/US that have Russia its Gravitas and domestic legitimacy for the last 70+ years. Actually he's not wrong. But I realize he's saying this to set a pretext for escalation. |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 11:15:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Finslayer83]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By aeroworksxp: I was looking at the Ukrainian presidential advisers twitter and noticed this red and black flag mixed with the Ukrainian flag on his cover photo. What does the red and black mean? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/327887/20220327_225749_jpg-2328811.JPG Ukrainian Insurgent Army. Red blood on black earth. |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 11:16:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: aeroworksxp]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Breven52: I was told during my time in Ukraine that the red/black flag is the partisan resistance flag from WW2. They fought the Nazis and USSR for independence, but mostly we’re ran over by the onslaught of commies. Yeah looks like you are right. But holy shit that is a can of worms.  Attached File  Attached Filehttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2022 11:18:32 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _disconnector_: This. 100%. Great synopsis. The perception of power *is* power . . . and the world's perception of Russia is that they couldn't knock over a lemonade stand run by a troop of girl scouts at this point. If they don't win definitively - total surrender without conditions - then they lose. Period. They are setting the stage for escalation. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _disconnector_: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Originally Posted By Birddog15: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Amazing clip:
And overall great (37 post) thread on how sanctions will begin the unraveling of Russia:
If that first clip is from a pro Putin talk show, then I guess what he is saying is that it must either be total victory over Ukraine, or the end of Russia. Am I understanding that correctly? He's saying essentially that if "The Great Power known as Russia" TM can't subdue little Ukraine, then the mythos of Russian Power/ Greatness will be shattered irrevocably, and they will be on their way as a worthless power and heading toward the dustbin of history. Basically he's saying if they can't take Ukraine, any future threat against NATO or the US will seem utterly absurd. And it was their ability to threaten NATO/US that have Russia its Gravitas and domestic legitimacy for the last 70+ years. The perception of power *is* power . . . and the world's perception of Russia is that they couldn't knock over a lemonade stand run by a troop of girl scouts at this point. If they don't win definitively - total surrender without conditions - then they lose. Period. They are setting the stage for escalation. The mythos of the mighty Iron Curtain was pretty much dead when the USSR fell apart. Frigging Pepsi Co. had a Russian warship armada ot one point. They would have starved and decayed into anarchy but Europe and the US pumped in a bunch of money. If Putin had USSR delusions of grandeur, that's a personal problem. Even with all the Warsaw Pact countries the USSR never lived up to the mythos. That pride is how Reagan bankrupted them. You're right though, the are doing a little mental stage setting. Which is also what Biden was doing yesterday. |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 11:18:35 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eight_Ring: It's a shame that the dysfunctional cheerleader vibe in this thread made you feel like a "pussy" for not discounting the very real threat of a nuclear exchange. There is a reason the most responsible architects of American foreign policy were absolutely adamant that direct conflict between the United States should NEVER be allowed to occur. I'm not aware of any war games envisioning such a scenario that ended happily. If anybody knows of one that didn't end in a nightmarish nuclear exchange, absolutely post a link. INRE: Ukraine not being worth a bucket of warm spit, you're not wrong in failing to find a compelling national security interest worth going to war over in Ukraine. As far as I can tell there isn't one. George Kennan himself thought eastward expansion of NATO to be a dangerous folly. So basically you are in good company. Aside from the incoherent ramblings of the potatus, nobody is advocating US military involvement as far as I know. A bunch of us want to provide Ukraine with all the supplies they want, but THEY'RE the ones to do the fighting. Sending military supplies and equipment to proxy wars is a time-honored tradition for bqth sides. |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 11:19:22 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Breven52: I was told during my time in Ukraine that the red/black flag is the partisan resistance flag from WW2. They fought the Nazis and USSR for independence, but mostly we're ran over by the onslaught of commies. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Breven52: Originally Posted By aeroworksxp: I was looking at the Ukrainian presidential advisers twitter and noticed this red and black flag mixed with the Ukrainian flag on his cover photo. What does the red and black mean? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/327887/20220327_225749_jpg-2328811.JPG I was told during my time in Ukraine that the red/black flag is the partisan resistance flag from WW2. They fought the Nazis and USSR for independence, but mostly we're ran over by the onslaught of commies. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/27/2022 11:20:28 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Balu: It's a bunch of hot air. You guys are correct in interpreting what they're saying but it's just the posturing of an already defeated country with delusions of grandeur. Like a toad that puffs itself up to scare away a large predator, they just talk big but are actually collapsing in slow motion. Like I said before Russian imperial adventurism must be stopped with this conflict and not later. The world has allowed them to start wars and invade countries with impunity way too long. This shit needs to end now. If that's the end of the Russian state, well sucks to be them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Balu: Originally Posted By OKnativeson: Originally Posted By MNGearhead: The clip in the first tweet, Holy Shit. Putin's people are pushing him "either you win this, or you start the final countdown". exactly what I have been saying. the hardliners have a saying.. "what is a world without Russia"..meaning the EMPIRE of old. to them there doesn't need to be a world. It's a bunch of hot air. You guys are correct in interpreting what they're saying but it's just the posturing of an already defeated country with delusions of grandeur. Like a toad that puffs itself up to scare away a large predator, they just talk big but are actually collapsing in slow motion. Like I said before Russian imperial adventurism must be stopped with this conflict and not later. The world has allowed them to start wars and invade countries with impunity way too long. This shit needs to end now. If that's the end of the Russian state, well sucks to be them. It's amazing to me how many people still don't understand how much Russia relies on lies, bluster, and intimidation. It's only been 70+ years. |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 11:21:14 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eight_Ring: How is the "restoration of the USSR" going to happen if they can't even competently achieve a victory over Ukraine? If they can't even maintain logistics to support their forces in a neighboring country? Given what is (apparently) known--explain how they are going to take over Poland and the Baltics? Answer--they cant. But what they CAN do is torch the military installations of the free world and every major city with nuclear weapons. That they CAN do. So stop worrying about shit that CAN'T happen and start worrying about shit that CAN happen. Cuz that'd be great. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eight_Ring: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Or, it was Russia that could have and should have seen that outcome, but Putin drove out not only dissent, but voices of caution and prudence. To the extent that Russia is damaged in any way from this disaster, it was 100% self inflicted. And since we know Putin was motivated by imperialism and expansionism, thin was not caused by the West. That was always a phony narrative. Did you not see the maps, the boasting of going on to the Baltics and Poland? For the 8700th time, this wasn't about NATO, it was about the restoration of the USSR. How is the "restoration of the USSR" going to happen if they can't even competently achieve a victory over Ukraine? If they can't even maintain logistics to support their forces in a neighboring country? Given what is (apparently) known--explain how they are going to take over Poland and the Baltics? Answer--they cant. But what they CAN do is torch the military installations of the free world and every major city with nuclear weapons. That they CAN do. So stop worrying about shit that CAN'T happen and start worrying about shit that CAN happen. Cuz that'd be great. Nonsense. Russia needs to be curb-stomped in Ukraine. The reason is that by suffering a humiliating defeat of their conventional forces, the spectre of the all-mighty Russian bear disintegrates. Further, by allowing the sanctions to implode the Russian economy and, essentially, forcing them to become a larger North Korea, they will be unable to maintain any military capabilities *at all* whether they be conventional or nuclear. This is the best opportunity in a generation to take Russia off the playing field permanently. |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 11:21:33 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Balu: It's a bunch of hot air. You guys are correct in interpreting what they're saying but it's just the posturing of an already defeated country with delusions of grandeur. Like a toad that puffs itself up to scare away a large predator, they just talk big but are actually collapsing in slow motion. Like I said before Russian imperial adventurism must be stopped with this conflict and not later. The world has allowed them to start wars and invade countries with impunity way too long. This shit needs to end now. If that's the end of the Russian state, well sucks to be them. Your lips to God's ears. How does the world get Russia to (and safely past) that moment of compete capitulation without Putin committing a nuclear suicide-by-cop? |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 11:25:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheAlmightyYak]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tuco22: Its pretty sad. In such a scenario, maybe Putin would settle for just the Eastern Regions (NY, NJ, RI, MA, etc…) For some, that might actually be an improvement anyways ETA - more seriously, anything lately on Putin’s “phase 2” objectives since phase 1 supposedly completed? |
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USA
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Posted: 3/27/2022 11:26:08 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Aside from the incoherent ramblings of the potatus, nobody is advocating US military involvement as far as I know. A bunch of us want to provide Ukraine with all the supplies they want, but THEY'RE the ones to do the fighting. Sending military supplies and equipment to proxy wars is a time-honored tradition for bqth sides. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By Eight_Ring: It's a shame that the dysfunctional cheerleader vibe in this thread made you feel like a "pussy" for not discounting the very real threat of a nuclear exchange. There is a reason the most responsible architects of American foreign policy were absolutely adamant that direct conflict between the United States should NEVER be allowed to occur. I'm not aware of any war games envisioning such a scenario that ended happily. If anybody knows of one that didn't end in a nightmarish nuclear exchange, absolutely post a link. INRE: Ukraine not being worth a bucket of warm spit, you're not wrong in failing to find a compelling national security interest worth going to war over in Ukraine. As far as I can tell there isn't one. George Kennan himself thought eastward expansion of NATO to be a dangerous folly. So basically you are in good company. Aside from the incoherent ramblings of the potatus, nobody is advocating US military involvement as far as I know. A bunch of us want to provide Ukraine with all the supplies they want, but THEY'RE the ones to do the fighting. Sending military supplies and equipment to proxy wars is a time-honored tradition for bqth sides. "You want WWIII" "Remember that when your family is dying of radiation poisoning" etc. Most probably haven't even been following this thread. |
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