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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:22:20 PM EST
[#1]
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:22:46 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Schmigs:
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:23:04 PM EST
[#3]
Quote History Oh yeah, that's going to play well... |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:23:55 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Schmigs:
I doubt they have any s300s in range. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:24:08 PM EST
[#5]
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:24:10 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chaingun: She was the perfect rep and now opens her mouth over UA Newsflash: She was never the perfect rep, but a self-inflating media whore who is using the anger about Biden to make herself palatable. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:25:09 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: At this point, I think Russia has just about shit themselves out of every capable platform and PGM in their inventory. It ain't gonna get better from here. Only step left is nukes to prevent disassembly of the Russian State. If they're using heavy bombers on Mariupol other cities in the region, I foresee a round or three of trap. Instead of Kreighoff and Perazzi, we'll be seeing re-purposed Russian AD platforms joining Ukraine's stuff...with a few thoughtful donations from EU and the west. Every round of trap can benefit from a shooting coach, and that's probably going to come from various NATO assets flying in theater. Is it Bear season? I'm willing to bet they won't task many Blackjacks to those cities unless their leadership is extremely stupid. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:25:43 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO:
That is a pretty powerful photo of resistance 
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:25:57 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bassgasm: My criticism of the 113 is that it's sort of a worst of both worlds option between tracked and wheeled vehicles. It offers protection equal to or even less than armored wheeled vehicles while having a logistics appetite closer to other tracked vehicles. Still, the price is right, beggars can't be choosers, and sending them to ride into Europe to make Russia's life harder is better than scrapping them. I disagree; armored glass < armor of almost any other kind, and the UAH has a lot more of that than the 113. I have been in UAHs in bad mud, and I have seen M113s gamely make their way through (and belly slide over) stuff that had even un-armored HMMWVs up to their axles in mud. A2 models might not be properly amphibious, but even earlier models were plenty "floaty" enough for boggy places like Vietnam, whereas an UAH is just going to be waiting for recovery. I can't speak to their propensity to break down, but their ease of maintenance and an abundance of spare parts should more than address that. The ratio of dismounts to crew in the UAH is also abysmal. If I was a Ukrainian company commander and had the choice of M113 or UAH fresh off the boat (and nothing else was available to me), I would opt for the M113. If we hadn't left so many of them in AFG, perhaps the M1117 ASV would be an option for the Ukrainians. A little BTR-like, but then we are back to a mediocre ratio of crew to dismounts, and I don't know how we would arm them except with their usual M2 and Mk19, and that creates different and worse problems IMO. I do agree with your last point. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:27:27 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cryo_tech: I doubt they have any s300s in range. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cryo_tech: Originally Posted By Schmigs:
I doubt they have any s300s in range. Yet. |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:27:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: Finslayer83]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AnalogKid: If they're using heavy bombers on Mariupol other cities in the region, I foresee a round or three of trap. Instead of Kreighoff and Perazzi, we'll be seeing re-purposed Russian AD platforms joining Ukraine's stuff...with a few thoughtful donations from EU and the west. Every round of trap can benefit from a shooting coach, and that's probably going to come from various NATO assets flying in theater. Is it Bear season? I'm willing to bet they won't task many Blackjacks to those cities unless their leadership is extremely stupid. I'd wager Backfires too eta: beat |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:28:27 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AnalogKid: Is it Bear season? I'm willing to bet they won't task many Blackjacks to those cities unless their leadership is extremely stupid. I've gotta say... I haven't seen anything to the contrary? |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:28:37 PM EST
[#13]
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USA
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:29:26 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alaskanbred: If they declare full war, expect to see their bombers laying waste to entire cities. Probably won’t happen for a variety of reasons. 1)They are extremely short of PGMs and the only thing they can use in quantity are dumb bombs which require you to overfly the target. 2)Using Backfires like B-17s will incur very heavy losses. 3)Using up their PGM stock in a terror bombing campaign would be foolish even for them. 4)Terror bombing would bring NATO intervention quickly and would force Germany’s hand on energy imports. IMO the trajectory of the war is such that Europe and the US are approaching critical mass for some sort of intervention. A “Peacekeeping” force in western Ukraine to free up Ukrainian reserves and simplify resupply is probably the best option. This would also require a no-fly zone in those areas of western Ukraine, which would again free up some anti-air assets. 5)Russia will do what it does best - kill civilians with arty and rifles. Extermination and deportations will become official policy from now on. We only know about Russian atrocities around Kiev because the Russians lost that ground quickly. They will just shove everything they have into the East to hold ground and grind forward, meaning that they will have the time to execute and then conceal atrocities on a mass scale. Over the next few months we will see atrocities as bad as WW2 in every way. |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:29:27 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Schmigs:
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:29:50 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mnd6563: Interesting take on the poor performance of the Russian tanks in the war. Notes that in all the videos, the gunners are keeping the turrets in a parade formation and are not scanning the sides or staggering...
Good info, thanks. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:31:21 PM EST
[#17]
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:31:56 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mancow: What legal latitude? He's a dictator that can do whatever he wants. I know what you are saying but it seems irrelevant to me. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mancow: Originally Posted By Bizzarolibe: Originally Posted By TNC: Who are they declaring war on? Their electricians union? I thought they said Moskva had an electrical fire. It’s naive to laugh this off. An official declaration of war gives Putin more legal latitude to escalate this conflict, which includes deploying WMD’s. What legal latitude? He's a dictator that can do whatever he wants. I know what you are saying but it seems irrelevant to me. Exactly. It appears to me that he is having to justify it to his people somehow since he origionally told them it was a simple military operation to free Ukraine from Nazis. When that failed and has dragged on into loss after loss, he has to spin it into something larger scale so his people will continue their rah-rah-rah bullshit for his war machine. It makes it a lot easier to get public support and maintain his total control. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:32:05 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: Russia doesn't have any Capital ships on the black sea. That's yesterday's news. Technically Russia never had a capital ship in the Black Sea for this war. Russia has 3 capital ships the one aircraft carrier and the 2 Kirov class battlecruisers They call them large missile ships but we decided they are battlecruisers as they remind us of the Scharnhorst/Gneisenau of WWII fame being of similar size and silhouette After Moskva I suspect the Kirovs can not take a punch like those 2 German twins. Hard to believe but there was a time when Germans were men |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:32:37 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryAh. The "Punishee" rather than the "Punisher." |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:33:00 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO:
Neat!  
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:33:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: Firearmsenthusiast]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 7empest: That is a pretty powerful photo of resistance https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQZ-3ynWQAYzh3v?format=jpg&name=large Russia can't win. You will never subjugate a population like the Ukrainians. They would have kill every last one of them. So this is what scares me a bit, because we had the same problem in the mid 1940's. 
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:34:06 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PurpleOtter: This is getting interesting, first steps in Vlad escalating? Belarus bans EU-registered trucks from entering country Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PurpleOtter: This is getting interesting, first steps in Vlad escalating? April 15 (Reuters) - Belarus on Friday announced a ban on trucks registered in the European Union from entering its territory, Interfax news agency quoted the transport ministry as saying. Didn't the Baltic countries already close their borders to Belarus? |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:35:26 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN: Should probably put Rs in internment camps No but you should tell those people they're full of shit every chance you get. |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:35:42 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Less range and older than Neptune, but bigger warhead, IIRC. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Originally Posted By Circuits: Harpoon is not an ineffictive system. Godspeed the defenders. Less range and older than Neptune, but bigger warhead, IIRC. Much bigger warhead, 50% bigger. |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:36:11 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Firearmsenthusiast: Russia can't win. You will never subjugate a population like the Ukrainians. They would have kill every last one of them. So this is what scares me a bit, because we had the same problem in the mid 1940's. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/Atomic_bombing_of_Japan.jpg  This Business Will Get Out of Control |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:37:15 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: There are a few particular things russia wants out of this war. I'm not sure what those specific things are, oil fields, iron factories, stuff like that. But if they start to get the impression they are actually going to lose that stuff, I expect them to go scorched earth. Not just bombing targets, bombing everything. Poisoning everything. Mining everything. Raping and killing everybody. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Originally Posted By CS223: UK is sending Harpoons. Crimea might be in play before this is over. There are a few particular things russia wants out of this war. I'm not sure what those specific things are, oil fields, iron factories, stuff like that. But if they start to get the impression they are actually going to lose that stuff, I expect them to go scorched earth. Not just bombing targets, bombing everything. Poisoning everything. Mining everything. Raping and killing everybody. That's really what the Donbas is seeing now. Just devestation over devestation. Mines, traps, its just a total shitshow. |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:37:39 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: At this point, I think Russia has just about shit themselves out of every capable platform and PGM in their inventory. It ain't gonna get better from here. Only step left is nukes to prevent disassembly of the Russian State. RUMINT I heard last year was the Yekaterinburg plant was running round the clock shifts for months. I have zero inclination on their manufacturing capacity, but the consensus among those tracking PGM stocks say Russia has more than people realize. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:37:40 PM EST
[#29]
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:37:40 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO:
They wouldn't know what to say if NATO began conventional strikes. |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:37:55 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO:
Haha, COPE and SEETHE.  |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:40:44 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO:
I wish that Neptune was fired from Snake Island, but I doubt it. |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:40:48 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 58Teague: RUMINT I heard last year was the Yekaterinburg plant was running round the clock shifts for months. I have zero inclination on their manufacturing capacity, but the consensus among those tracking PGM stocks say Russia has more than people realize. Good intel. But won't make up a severe tech shortage. And BTW, our shit actually works. |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:42:44 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SilverBearX: Simmer down. Just ban them from Twitter and shut down their Amazon servers. That way we can fix all the wrong think. Right Comrade? For someone who hates Russians so badly, you seem to have an inclination towards their tactics. He didn't say any of that. You did. Strawman much, comrade? |
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USA
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:42:51 PM EST
[#35]
Another one bites the dust |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:43:53 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cryo_tech: Not unless they are over Ukraine territory. They won't do shit to a NATO nation. We have more capability to shoot down sats than they do. We can also replace them alot more easily than they can. |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:45:08 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead: Fair stance, but to also be fair, 99% of people that start in with the "Ukraine is corrupt" line also say "I can't choose a side because both are corrupt" which is as retarded as not being able to acknowledge every government on the planet is corrupt. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead: Originally Posted By SilverBearX: Originally Posted By Yobro512: Originally Posted By Obo2: so no specific people or acts? if you don't want alex jones to spread a message stop fucking talking about him. Is Alex jones pro-kremlin in this conflict? I have seen nothing to make me think that. He thinks there is funny business going on, and corruption, but if you don't think there is any funny business or corruption then you are retarded. A few people in this thread want to equate any mention of that or anything other than a halo over Ukraine's head with "supporting Putin" but they completely fail at logic as the two are not the same. I hope Ukraine kicks Russias ass all the way back to Moscow, hangs Putin from a bridge by his neck, then says deal with it. I also think there is an enormous amount of corruption between Western leaders and both Russia and Ukraine. I also don't think all Ukranians are angels. Does that mean I don't support them kicking Russias ass? Fuck no. Fair stance, but to also be fair, 99% of people that start in with the "Ukraine is corrupt" line also say "I can't choose a side because both are corrupt" which is as retarded as not being able to acknowledge every government on the planet is corrupt. Maybe some do, but there are also some people in this thread that add those words at the end of anything that is said in regards to corruption in that part of the world and then claim that as what the original person said. And to further expound on my, and I would dare say most, conservatives believe: In regards to Ukraine or any other Nation seeking NATO membership as it relates to being provocation towards Russia, Russia can eat a dick. Sovereign nations do not need to run their decisions by Russia or consider Russias feeling in regards to those decisions and it does not give Russia any right whatsoever to invade or attack those nations militarily. Russia has legitimate options to combat NATO membership or anything else. They can suspend trade with those nations. They can end diplomatic relations with those nations. They can raise export prices or impose import tariffs on those nations. They can go on twitter and talk shit about those nations. They can not however attack those nations, invade those nations, or pillage those nations. |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:45:23 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead: Fair stance, but to also be fair, 99% of people that start in with the "Ukraine is corrupt" line also say "I can't choose a side because both are corrupt" which is as retarded as not being able to acknowledge every government on the planet is corrupt. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead: Originally Posted By SilverBearX: Originally Posted By Yobro512: Originally Posted By Obo2: so no specific people or acts? if you don't want alex jones to spread a message stop fucking talking about him. Is Alex jones pro-kremlin in this conflict? I have seen nothing to make me think that. He thinks there is funny business going on, and corruption, but if you don't think there is any funny business or corruption then you are retarded. A few people in this thread want to equate any mention of that or anything other than a halo over Ukraine's head with "supporting Putin" but they completely fail at logic as the two are not the same. I hope Ukraine kicks Russias ass all the way back to Moscow, hangs Putin from a bridge by his neck, then says deal with it. I also think there is an enormous amount of corruption between Western leaders and both Russia and Ukraine. I also don't think all Ukranians are angels. Does that mean I don't support them kicking Russias ass? Fuck no. Fair stance, but to also be fair, 99% of people that start in with the "Ukraine is corrupt" line also say "I can't choose a side because both are corrupt" which is as retarded as not being able to acknowledge every government on the planet is corrupt. Maybe some do, but there are also some people in this thread that add those words at the end of anything that is said in regards to corruption in that part of the world and then claim that as what the original person said. And to further expound on my, and I would dare say most, conservatives believe: In regards to Ukraine or any other Nation seeking NATO membership as it relates to being provocation towards Russia, Russia can eat a dick. Sovereign nations do not need to run their decisions by Russia or consider Russia's feeling in regards to those decisions and it does not give Russia any right whatsoever to invade or attack those nations militarily. Russia has legitimate options to combat NATO membership or anything else. They can suspend trade with those nations. They can end diplomatic relations with those nations. They can raise export prices or impose import tariffs on those nations. They can go on twitter and talk shit about those nations. They can not however attack those nations, invade those nations, or pillage those nations. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:46:33 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By castingcouch: I've only seen one or two people claim that the Russians picked up 12 and the Turks picked up 50. I recall early reports that a Turkish vessel was in the area and responded to the distress calls. I think maybe even it was a Russian report on 12-14 survivors while they weren't sure what the official lie, uh, line was going to be. A warship in such a condition that it's abandoning ship broadcasts on international frequencies that it's abandoning ship. It's burning/exploding but the civilian ship approaches closely enough to perhaps go alongside or extremely close. Responding to a distress call is customary and practically obligatory. Keeping in mind that there hasn't been active naval warfare (that I recall) since the end of WWII, tbh, expecting safety and identification and not being intentionally or accidentally attacked might be a stretch. The Ukraines are doing things at a distance and the Russians are Russians. Kudos to the Turks because it seems likely that was a very dangerous thing to do. Or it wasn't maybe so bad yet? It's not clear how long it was before the ship sank, or the timetable of "attack" or whatever started the fires/explosions to abandon ship to sinking. If it's an active battle, it's not a place for the uninvolved. It's not clear that the warring parties can accurately identify your status. The distress call? You give your position. Good for rescue. Bad if you are apparently under attack in a"war zone," it clearly gives your position to the attackers. If the drone/drones are distracting/providing targeting details, if remaining at a significant distance, they might have video but quality may be quite bad. How many miles out are they reported to have been? The Turks may have some phone footage but not sure. This crew would have been a working crew and might not have had a lot of phones or been too busy to take much. Also, they would have perhaps returned to their original path and destination. Maybe helo transfer badly injured survivors but otherwise, healthy survivors could just ride along until they reachg the destination. That might take a while. It would seem like there might be video available if they get to a port. |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:47:30 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M-1975: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/177432/FQZQZVbaAAEMeEk_png-2350071.JPG  |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:48:21 PM EST
[#41]
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OR, USA
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:48:58 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rca2222: Didn't the Baltic countries already close their borders to Belarus? |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:51:59 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: Screen capture from a video of the sinking of the Moskva Click To View Spoiler |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:52:17 PM EST
[#44]
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:53:56 PM EST
[#45]
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:55:59 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 58Teague: RUMINT I heard last year was the Yekaterinburg plant was running round the clock shifts for months. I have zero inclination on their manufacturing capacity, but the consensus among those tracking PGM stocks say Russia has more than people realize. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 58Teague: Originally Posted By Circuits: At this point, I think Russia has just about shit themselves out of every capable platform and PGM in their inventory. It ain't gonna get better from here. Only step left is nukes to prevent disassembly of the Russian State. RUMINT I heard last year was the Yekaterinburg plant was running round the clock shifts for months. I have zero inclination on their manufacturing capacity, but the consensus among those tracking PGM stocks say Russia has more than people realize. That would be very strange. Russia is confirmed to have lost a dozen or so of their Sukhoi fast movers (Flankers and Fullbacks), and it seems like most of those have been lost flying low altitude strikes with unguided bombs. There are videos of the Russians using these airframes in this manner leaving them exposed to MANPADs and various guns. The presumed explanation for these tactics (and losses) was that Russia didn't have enough PGMs for those aircraft to operate from higher altitude. I get that Russia is going to do Russia things, but it makes no sense for them to squander pilots and aircraft if they have a good stock of PGMs. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:56:30 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Featureless: I recall early reports that a Turkish vessel was in the area and responded to the distress calls. I think maybe even it was a Russian report on 12-14 survivors while they weren't sure what the official lie, uh, line was going to be. A warship in such a condition that it's abandoning ship broadcasts on international frequencies that it's abandoning ship. It's burning/exploding but the civilian ship approaches closely enough to perhaps go alongside or extremely close. Responding to a distress call is customary and practically obligatory. Keeping in mind that there hasn't been active naval warfare (that I recall) since the end of WWII, tbh, expecting safety and identification and not being intentionally or accidentally attacked might be a stretch. The Ukraines are doing things at a distance and the Russians are Russians. Kudos to the Turks because it seems likely that was a very dangerous thing to do. Or it wasn't maybe so bad yet? It's not clear how long it was before the ship sank, or the timetable of "attack" or whatever started the fires/explosions to abandon ship to sinking. If it's an active battle, it's not a place for the uninvolved. It's not clear that the warring parties can accurately identify your status. The distress call? You give your position. Good for rescue. Bad if you are apparently under attack in a"war zone," it clearly gives your position to the attackers. If the drone/drones are distracting/providing targeting details, if remaining at a significant distance, they might have video but quality may be quite bad. How many miles out are they reported to have been? The Turks may have some phone footage but not sure. This crew would have been a working crew and might not have had a lot of phones or been too busy to take much. Also, they would have perhaps returned to their original path and destination. Maybe helo transfer badly injured survivors but otherwise, healthy survivors could just ride along until they reachg the destination. That might take a while. It would seem like there might be video available if they get to a port. Important to remember that, just like their ground force casualties, the Russians themselves probably have at best a ballpark figure of how many they actually lost. More on the way:
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OR, USA
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Posted: 4/15/2022 2:57:06 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam:
He should be buried with full military honors. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/15/2022 3:01:51 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Schmigs:
looks like an 80% Mig-29. perfectly legal. |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 3:06:17 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mal_means_bad: The Russians also claimed to fully occupy it earlier today. |
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