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Posted: 1/5/2023 9:55:43 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Agreed. 50 is "paltry" - it's just symbolic. I had even guessed earlier that would be the number. A few hundred would be meaningful, helping to create enough maneuver battalions to really apply pressure. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Originally Posted By ludder093: should send a couple hundred Bradleys Agreed. 50 is "paltry" - it's just symbolic. I had even guessed earlier that would be the number. A few hundred would be meaningful, helping to create enough maneuver battalions to really apply pressure. Send them 100s, time to finally use up the cold war weapons |
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USA
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Posted: 1/5/2023 9:57:12 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryNice video but has a little WTF moment. Although the guy is dressed very nicely, he is barefoot. In difference from russian peasants, Ukrainian peasants and especially cossack never had bast shoes and would never be seen barefoot. Boots, preferably red, was not just a footwear but a necessity and a way to show off. https://img.theculturetrip.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/shutterstock_1090091555.jpg |
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Posted: 1/5/2023 9:58:15 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FlvRyG-XEAQT2qO?format=jpg&name=large Nice, that’s a high value prisoner. Should be able to get a good number of UA troops back for him. |
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Posted: 1/5/2023 10:00:22 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/images/essm-image3.jpg They have somehow managed to adapt these to launch from this: BUK http://www.military-today.com/missiles/buk.jpg https://gdb-rferl-org.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/gdb.rferl.org/6860E25E-12A2-498F-80B4-6D96F45FF4B9_w1080_r0.png Ukraine started the war with at least 72 of these launch vehicles. |
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Posted: 1/5/2023 10:01:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: NY12ga]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: >snip< How we spend $5m a piece on something that’s too heavy to deploy and too light to fight is beyond me. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By m35ben: BTRs seem to be getting the job done. I don't see why the Stryker wouldn't work with it. >snip< How we spend $5m a piece on something that’s too heavy to deploy and too light to fight is beyond me. Cough cough Zumwalt cough cough |
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Posted: 1/5/2023 10:01:43 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: I do have a healthy skepticism on these calls. I do believe plenty of the Russian troops would say these things, but it's obviously very easy to manufacture and impossible to verify. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
That's just ugly Ukrainian propaganda, it's more evidence that Ukraine is a Nazi menace. (/sarcasm) I do have a healthy skepticism on these calls. I do believe plenty of the Russian troops would say these things, but it's obviously very easy to manufacture and impossible to verify. I file these away as possible but don’t take them as gospel. That said, Russians are calling in the clear on Ukrainian cell systems. How hard could it be to intercept them? |
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Posted: 1/5/2023 10:09:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#7]
This successful operation took place on 03/04/2022 by soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine 🇺🇦 But right now we will be able to open the curtain on this a little.
It was then that 7 representatives of the occupiers were eliminated, among whom Volodymyr "Vokha" Zhoga, one of the main terrorists, the commander of the separate reconnaissance battalion "Sparta", is lying nicely next to the car. https://t.me/a_shtirlitz/16225 Believe in warriors! Believe in the Armed Forces of Ukraine 🇺🇦 Respect to Aidar 🔥 @a_shtirlitz https://t.me/bochkala_war/10997
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Posted: 1/5/2023 10:12:21 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mal_means_bad: They're supposed to have like 3 prototypes. Sounds like good news, if true, another desperation move. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mal_means_bad: Originally Posted By Prime: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203719/1A2AD141-6E6E-4245-9BD4-C5C4445A43C6-2661757.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203719/51450E31-4F95-438C-9184-404292496AB3-2661758.jpg https://vk.com/wall-27532693_3735208 They're supposed to have like 3 prototypes. Sounds like good news, if true, another desperation move. Meh, another wunderwaffe nothing-burger. People have probably forgotten about it, but Putin said back in March or April (after the shit had really hit the fan) that Russia was going to send in lasers. Frickin’ lasers. |
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Posted: 1/5/2023 10:12:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dillydilly]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RunnngCircles: Nice video but has a little WTF moment. Although the guy is dressed very nicely, he is barefoot. In difference from russian peasants, Ukrainian peasants and especially cossack never had bast shoes and would never be seen barefoot. Boots, preferably red, was not just a footwear but a necessity and a way to show off. https://img.theculturetrip.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/shutterstock_1090091555.jpg I wouldn’t go as far saying WTF, but ya, some red boots would have been nice. He’s a real deal Cossack. And yes he normally does wear boots.  KOZAK SIROMAHA Sword Technique / ????? ???????? ??????? |
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Posted: 1/5/2023 10:16:41 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NY12ga: Cough cough Zumwalt cough cough Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NY12ga: Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By m35ben: BTRs seem to be getting the job done. I don't see why the Stryker wouldn't work with it. One of those it’s not ideal but better than nothing deals. Strykers deployed how the US does, with towed artillery and no tanks, would be a far cry from ideal. How we spend $5m a piece on something that’s too heavy to deploy and too light to fight is beyond me. Cough cough Zumwalt cough cough Yeah, the Army's procurement system is only marginally better than the Navy and Air Forces procurement systems, and quite frankly, that ain't a glowing recommendation. 
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CA, USA
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Posted: 1/5/2023 10:22:19 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zam18th: OT - but for those of you like me who rarely venture into GD anymore, I just saw it by chance and wanted to give you a heads up that long time member IHJ passed away. https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/IronhandJohn-Deceased-/5-2613174/ Sorry to see that. Will have to follow the link. |
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Posted: 1/5/2023 10:22:49 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime:
Now there’s an interesting development. I guess since Sparrow is SARH, the BUK radar is good enough for guidance? If its the old Sparrow range is obly 10 miles. The newer model gets 27 miles per wiki. Very interesting. |
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Posted: 1/5/2023 10:27:59 PM EDT
[#13]
⚡️ 60% of tanks and 250 thousand soldiers: the EU military headquarters estimated the losses of the Russian Federation after February 24.
This statement was made by the head of the European Union Military Headquarters Herve Blezhan. The EU Military Staff estimates that the agencies responsible for warning, assessment and strategic planning have over 40% of Russia's vehicles and 20% of artillery out of action. And Russian losses are "at least 60 thousand Russian fighters who would have been killed and three times as many wounded." https://t.me/ragnarockkyiv/42933 |
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Posted: 1/5/2023 10:32:27 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigGrumpyBear: Yeah, the Army's procurement system is only marginally better than the Navy and Air Forces procurement systems, and quite frankly, that ain't a glowing recommendation. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigGrumpyBear: Originally Posted By NY12ga: Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By m35ben: BTRs seem to be getting the job done. I don't see why the Stryker wouldn't work with it. One of those it’s not ideal but better than nothing deals. Strykers deployed how the US does, with towed artillery and no tanks, would be a far cry from ideal. How we spend $5m a piece on something that’s too heavy to deploy and too light to fight is beyond me. Cough cough Zumwalt cough cough Yeah, the Army's procurement system is only marginally better than the Navy and Air Forces procurement systems, and quite frankly, that ain't a glowing recommendation. Yep, here’s LCS-2 already mothballed and rotting a few miles up the road from here.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/5/2023 10:36:25 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: U.S. thinks Putin ally Prigozhin wants control of salt, gypsum from mines near Bakhmut https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-thinks-putin-ally-prigozhin-wants-control-salt-gypsum-mines-near-bakhmut-2023-01-05/ WASHINGTON, Jan 5 (Reuters) - The United States is of the view that Russian President Vladimir Putin's ally Yevgeny Prigozhin, who is the founder of Russia's most powerful mercenary group, is interested in taking control of salt and gypsum from mines near the Ukrainian-held city of Bakhmut, a White House official said on Thursday. There are indications that monetary motives are driving Russia's and Prigozhin's "obsession" with Bakhmut, the official added. Prigozhin is the owner of private Russian military company Wagner Group. Well, he is “Putin’s chef.”  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/5/2023 10:43:56 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: This successful operation took place on 03/04/2022 by soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine 🇺🇦 But right now we will be able to open the curtain on this a little. It was then that 7 representatives of the occupiers were eliminated, among whom Volodymyr "Vokha" Zhoga, one of the main terrorists, the commander of the separate reconnaissance battalion "Sparta", is lying nicely next to the car. https://t.me/a_shtirlitz/16225 Believe in warriors! Believe in the Armed Forces of Ukraine 🇺🇦 Respect to Aidar 🔥 @a_shtirlitz https://t.me/bochkala_war/10997
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Flu9klLWYCMz7gS?format=jpg&name=large Old but interesting. There must’ve been hundreds of small-scale ambushes with lost Russian vehicles or survivors of bigger ambushes. I hope someone does a lot of interviews and writes a book on it. |
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Posted: 1/5/2023 10:44:42 PM EDT
[#17]
this is about as big a FUCK YOU as I can imagine.
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Posted: 1/5/2023 10:46:03 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Yep, here's LCS-2 already mothballed and rotting a few miles up the road from here. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/556465/A6183CDC-334C-44CE-B44C-03C033B53EF2_jpe-2661940.JPG Borderline criminal waste of tax dollars |
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Posted: 1/5/2023 10:49:22 PM EDT
[#19]
ISW assessment for January 5th.
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-january-5-2023 |
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Posted: 1/5/2023 10:50:50 PM EDT
[#20]
1Andy2 and I are on a romantic weekend getaway so it may take a while to respond.
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Posted: 1/5/2023 10:53:18 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
So in a hot zone like Bahkmut, how would a Bradley with TOWs and that gun be used? Would it be used in fast assaults like they use humvees with .50s? Would they use it to flank Russian armor and try to TOW it? A troop transport that can hold its own? All the above? |
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Posted: 1/5/2023 11:01:11 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Same, I am genuinely surprised. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: Originally Posted By Dominion21: https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/images/essm-image3.jpg They have somehow managed to adapt these to launch from this: BUK http://www.military-today.com/missiles/buk.jpg https://gdb-rferl-org.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/gdb.rferl.org/6860E25E-12A2-498F-80B4-6D96F45FF4B9_w1080_r0.png Ukraine started the war with at least 72 of these launch vehicles. I was amazed when they put HARMs on Flankers. I will be gobsmacked when a Sparrow is used by an SA-17. Same, I am genuinely surprised. Don't be coy. You can tell us. It was Joe down the hall, wasn't it? |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 1/5/2023 11:05:59 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Birddog15: Could the Bradleys be helpful if integrated correctly with the tanks that Ukraine already has? Absolutely. Mobile Mechanized Infantry are very important to protect Tanks when you're not in a hot fight against other Tanks or breaking a line. Also good for overwatch when bounding forward since they've got TOW. And Frankly, if I were a mobik w/o any real heavy weaponry, 4-14 Brads coming my way would scare the shit outta me. |
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Posted: 1/5/2023 11:09:08 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AgeOne: this is about as big a FUCK YOU as I can imagine.
And then what happened? There was a guy in the trench 15 feet to their right. |
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Posted: 1/5/2023 11:10:43 PM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 1/5/2023 11:12:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093: Would Strykers be useful to Ukraine? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093: Originally Posted By Charging_Handle: So Ukraine is getting two Patriot batteries now? Fuck yeah!  And we know those 50 Bradley IFVs are just the tip of the iceberg. First we'll equip a battalion. Then another. Then another. Eventually somewhere down the road they'll end up with enough to equip an entire armored corps. And that is fine by me. Now they just need some F-16s or F-18s and they'll really be able to get the party started.  Considering how the Stryker is like a much improved BTR, and the Ukrainians have been using the fuck out of those, I can't imagine Strykers wouldn't be useful - especially given its many variants. Maybe even the Mobile Gun System would be a welcome addition to them. FWIW, IIRC, our Stryker Brigades were modeled after/inspired by the Russian Motorized Rifle Regiments from the Cold War. |
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Posted: 1/5/2023 11:15:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#27]
Ukrainian TG interpreting this as “Great Britain will provide tanks”. 🇬🇧 Britain or allied countries may transfer tanks / infantry fighting vehicles to Ukraine in the future, - Sky News, citing the British Foreign Secretary. When asked what commitments Britain would make, the minister noted that London was providing Kyiv with military equipment that could deliver a "decisive blow to Russian targets from a distance." https://t.me/killpukin/12882 |
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Posted: 1/5/2023 11:18:00 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Flux6d6WIAItRR8?format=jpg&name=medium  |
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USA
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Posted: 1/5/2023 11:18:37 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Yep, here's LCS-2 already mothballed and rotting a few miles up the road from here. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/556465/A6183CDC-334C-44CE-B44C-03C033B53EF2_jpe-2661940.JPG Damn, that didn't take long. I remember arguing with a Navy guy about it when it was in trials. Guess I won that round.   |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 1/5/2023 11:21:25 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Special-K: Considering how the Stryker is like a much improved BTR, and the Ukrainians have been using the fuck out of those, I can't imagine Strykers wouldn't be useful - especially given its many variants. Maybe even the Mobile Gun System would be a welcome addition to them. FWIW, IIRC, our Stryker Brigades were modeled after/inspired by the Russian Motorized Rifle Regiments from the Cold War. I'd like to see them get Stryker's, LAV-TOW variants, and anything else in that vehicle family that helps their mobility, firepower and surviability. If there are any M901 Hammerhead TOW variants in depots, I'd like to see those fixed up and handed over too. Frankly, if we're reluctant to hand over M1's because of Maint requirements, are there any M60's that haven't been handed off? An old MBT is better than no MBT's. |
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Posted: 1/5/2023 11:26:03 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: Don't be coy. You can tell us. It was Joe down the hall, wasn't it? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: Originally Posted By Dominion21: https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/images/essm-image3.jpg They have somehow managed to adapt these to launch from this: BUK http://www.military-today.com/missiles/buk.jpg https://gdb-rferl-org.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/gdb.rferl.org/6860E25E-12A2-498F-80B4-6D96F45FF4B9_w1080_r0.png Ukraine started the war with at least 72 of these launch vehicles. I was amazed when they put HARMs on Flankers. I will be gobsmacked when a Sparrow is used by an SA-17. Same, I am genuinely surprised. Don't be coy. You can tell us. It was Joe down the hall, wasn't it? lol, yes. But let's wait for more info on this though, the Spanish Aspide systems sent to Ukraine can fire Sea Sparrow. The NASAMS systems can fire the evolved Sea Sparrow. |
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Posted: 1/5/2023 11:38:09 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: So in a hot zone like Bahkmut, how would a Bradley with TOWs and that gun be used? Would it be used in fast assaults like they use humvees with .50s? Would they use it to flank Russian armor and try to TOW it? A troop transport that can hold its own? All the above? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
So in a hot zone like Bahkmut, how would a Bradley with TOWs and that gun be used? Would it be used in fast assaults like they use humvees with .50s? Would they use it to flank Russian armor and try to TOW it? A troop transport that can hold its own? All the above? At night to fuck up infantry with 25mm/co-ax and vehicles with TOW. |
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Posted: 1/5/2023 11:43:00 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: So in a hot zone like Bahkmut, how would a Bradley with TOWs and that gun be used? Would it be used in fast assaults like they use humvees with .50s? Would they use it to flank Russian armor and try to TOW it? A troop transport that can hold its own? All the above? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
So in a hot zone like Bahkmut, how would a Bradley with TOWs and that gun be used? Would it be used in fast assaults like they use humvees with .50s? Would they use it to flank Russian armor and try to TOW it? A troop transport that can hold its own? All the above? If your interested in some war gaming with the system, and getting ideas on how they can be used check out these articles. There's a lot to consider, and the Bradleys with the right tactics and teamwork could be a new dimension. http://armchairgeneral.com/tactics-101-104-bradley-platoon-defense.htm http://armchairgeneral.com/tactic-101-103-bradley-platoon-attack.htm |
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Posted: 1/5/2023 11:44:02 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By B5Sluggo: I'd like to see them get Stryker's, LAV-TOW variants, and anything else in that vehicle family that helps their mobility, firepower and surviability. If there are any M901 Hammerhead TOW variants in depots, I'd like to see those fixed up and handed over too. Frankly, if we're reluctant to hand over M1's because of Maint requirements, are there any M60's that haven't been handed off? An old MBT is better than no MBT's. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By B5Sluggo: Originally Posted By Special-K: Considering how the Stryker is like a much improved BTR, and the Ukrainians have been using the fuck out of those, I can't imagine Strykers wouldn't be useful - especially given its many variants. Maybe even the Mobile Gun System would be a welcome addition to them. FWIW, IIRC, our Stryker Brigades were modeled after/inspired by the Russian Motorized Rifle Regiments from the Cold War. I'd like to see them get Stryker's, LAV-TOW variants, and anything else in that vehicle family that helps their mobility, firepower and surviability. If there are any M901 Hammerhead TOW variants in depots, I'd like to see those fixed up and handed over too. Frankly, if we're reluctant to hand over M1's because of Maint requirements, are there any M60's that haven't been handed off? An old MBT is better than no MBT's. Up until very recently, I was of the school of thought that we should be giving them as much armor as possible. I'm still of that school of thought when it comes to IFVs/APCs, but not tanks. Michael Kofman recently returned from Ukraine, and one of the things he mentioned was that the Ukrainians have more tanks than they know what to do with. Their main concern isn't numbers, but rather maintenance and logistics. If we're going to further complicate their logistics through giving them Western tanks, they should offer a significant advantage in terms of capabilities compared to the tanks they're currently utilizing, and I don't think M60s do. |
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Posted: 1/5/2023 11:49:14 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By B5Sluggo: I'd like to see them get Stryker's, LAV-TOW variants, and anything else in that vehicle family that helps their mobility, firepower and surviability. If there are any M901 Hammerhead TOW variants in depots, I'd like to see those fixed up and handed over too. Frankly, if we're reluctant to hand over M1's because of Maint requirements, are there any M60's that haven't been handed off? An old MBT is better than no MBT's. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By B5Sluggo: Originally Posted By Special-K: Considering how the Stryker is like a much improved BTR, and the Ukrainians have been using the fuck out of those, I can't imagine Strykers wouldn't be useful - especially given its many variants. Maybe even the Mobile Gun System would be a welcome addition to them. FWIW, IIRC, our Stryker Brigades were modeled after/inspired by the Russian Motorized Rifle Regiments from the Cold War. I'd like to see them get Stryker's, LAV-TOW variants, and anything else in that vehicle family that helps their mobility, firepower and surviability. If there are any M901 Hammerhead TOW variants in depots, I'd like to see those fixed up and handed over too. Frankly, if we're reluctant to hand over M1's because of Maint requirements, are there any M60's that haven't been handed off? An old MBT is better than no MBT's. Agreed on the M-60's - and the same with talk some months ago that Germany may give them Leopard 1's. Lots of M-60's out there still + spare parts. Maybe not so much for Leopards, but they can still be really useful for however long they can keep them running. |
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Posted: 1/5/2023 11:56:23 PM EDT
[#36]
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WI, USA
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Posted: 1/6/2023 12:14:24 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: So in a hot zone like Bahkmut, how would a Bradley with TOWs and that gun be used? Would it be used in fast assaults like they use humvees with .50s? Would they use it to flank Russian armor and try to TOW it? A troop transport that can hold its own? All the above? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
So in a hot zone like Bahkmut, how would a Bradley with TOWs and that gun be used? Would it be used in fast assaults like they use humvees with .50s? Would they use it to flank Russian armor and try to TOW it? A troop transport that can hold its own? All the above? My thinking is that 150 Bradleys would be a big help for a large sweep from Zapo to Melitopol. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/6/2023 12:15:15 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dillydilly: I wouldn’t go as far saying WTF, but ya, some red boots would have been nice. He’s a real deal Cossack. And yes he normally does wear boots.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVZ56oSfceAOn my 5-th b-day my grandpa gave a gift reed boots, червоні чоботи з бугая, гачі та вишиванку. Kept them as memory then lost when moving to US  Always wanted to get grandpa's sabre and mace but now have guns instead |
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Posted: 1/6/2023 12:22:00 AM EDT
[#39]
AT posted about this, but I think these are different images.
In the Donetsk direction, high-precision 155mm BONUS shells of Swedish-French production began to arrive in Rusna. The targeting system of striking elements is based on two main principles: 1. Infrared sensors, that is, thermal imaging guidance. 2. Lidar, that is, the visual definition of an object from the list of visual images stored in the memory of the guidance head. https://t.me/killpukin/12822    |
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USA
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Posted: 1/6/2023 12:35:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Flogger23m]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: So in a hot zone like Bahkmut, how would a Bradley with TOWs and that gun be used? Would it be used in fast assaults like they use humvees with .50s? Would they use it to flank Russian armor and try to TOW it? A troop transport that can hold its own? All the above? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
So in a hot zone like Bahkmut, how would a Bradley with TOWs and that gun be used? Would it be used in fast assaults like they use humvees with .50s? Would they use it to flank Russian armor and try to TOW it? A troop transport that can hold its own? All the above? TOW is deadly but they're kind of dated. Manually guided and you are immobile when firing. Maybe new variants fix that. You get two shots before having to climb up and load it. Missile flight is fast but slower than a tank because it is manually guided. A tank can just pop around a corner and fire off a shot and instantly reverse if needed. But the Bradley did rack up a good kill count if I recall in Iraq. It is certainly a step up from BMP-1/2s but you're not going to want to go toe to toe with tanks. But there are few videos of BTRs knocking out tanks from this war with ATGMs and auto cannons. Originally Posted By B5Sluggo: Originally Posted By Special-K: Considering how the Stryker is like a much improved BTR, and the Ukrainians have been using the fuck out of those, I can't imagine Strykers wouldn't be useful - especially given its many variants. Maybe even the Mobile Gun System would be a welcome addition to them. FWIW, IIRC, our Stryker Brigades were modeled after/inspired by the Russian Motorized Rifle Regiments from the Cold War. I'd like to see them get Stryker's, LAV-TOW variants, and anything else in that vehicle family that helps their mobility, firepower and surviability. If there are any M901 Hammerhead TOW variants in depots, I'd like to see those fixed up and handed over too. Frankly, if we're reluctant to hand over M1's because of Maint requirements, are there any M60's that haven't been handed off? An old MBT is better than no MBT's. We are actually retiring the MGS apparently. If we're dumping them then maybe those would be okay for Ukraine. We use them in a different role and I am not sure how Ukraine can integrate them properly but they're getting similar vehicles from France. Apparently we are getting two new types of Stryker configurations. The Dragoon which has a big 30mm and turret:  And the SHORAD which has a 30mm and Stingers for air defense and/or Hellfires for anti tank:  Makes me wonder what we are going to do with the TOW version. Reconfigure/rebuild? Keep? |
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Posted: 1/6/2023 12:41:27 AM EDT
[#41]
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ND, USA
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Posted: 1/6/2023 12:47:34 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Special-K: Agreed on the M-60's - and the same with talk some months ago that Germany may give them Leopard 1's. Lots of M-60's out there still + spare parts. Maybe not so much for Leopards, but they can still be really useful for however long they can keep them running. I thought I read where Germany was going to give them the Leopards they have in storage? But right now they are foot dragging for political reasons..communist Greens(Russian assets) are the hold up… |
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Posted: 1/6/2023 1:01:22 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: I was amazed when they put HARMs on Flankers. I will be gobsmacked when a Sparrow is used by an SA-17. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Originally Posted By Dominion21: https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/images/essm-image3.jpg They have somehow managed to adapt these to launch from this: BUK http://www.military-today.com/missiles/buk.jpg https://gdb-rferl-org.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/gdb.rferl.org/6860E25E-12A2-498F-80B4-6D96F45FF4B9_w1080_r0.png Ukraine started the war with at least 72 of these launch vehicles. I was amazed when they put HARMs on Flankers. I will be gobsmacked when a Sparrow is used by an SA-17. |
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Posted: 1/6/2023 1:07:04 AM EDT
[#44]
These old NATO tanks are 105mm, not 120.
Does anyone even have ammo stocks for that? |
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Posted: 1/6/2023 1:07:28 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shadyman: I thought I read where Germany was going to give them the Leopards they have in storage? But right now they are foot dragging for political reasons..communist Greens(Russian assets) are the hold up… Not the Greens. Social Democrats are the problem, and some right wing; They are the ones the Russians have bought and influenced since they’ve been the ruling party for so long. The greens are actually gung ho for Ukraine. The FM, Baerbock, is Green and way out ahead on this issue. |
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Posted: 1/6/2023 1:15:53 AM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 1/6/2023 1:18:37 AM EDT
[#47]
Interesting
UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres has disbanded the mission to establish the circumstances of the death of Ukrainian prisoners of war in July 2022 in Olenivka - Reuters. It is reported that the UN mission was unable to deploy to the scene of the attack on Ukrainian prisoners of war in the Olenivka colony. After our victory, it is necessary to raise the question of the dissolution of the UN, a senseless organization that pumps out only money, has no real influence, but knows how to deeply condemn and sympathize in comfortable offices. This organization has outlived its usefulness, a new organization with new rules should be formed in its city, which will have leverage in the world. https://t.me/operativnoZSU/68275 The UN is probably the only organization that has supported the so-called "truce" on a par with terrorist countries. These venal good-for-nothings are still talking about the law and norms, while avoiding the topic of who is the aggressor. "Christmas is a sacred period for both Russians and Ukrainians. The Secretary-General always welcomes the possibility that this sacred period will be respected with the cessation of all hostilities, but understands that this is no substitute for a just peace in accordance with the UN Charter and international law ", said UN spokesman Stephane Dujarric. https://t.me/operativnoZSU/68285 |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 1/6/2023 1:20:10 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flogger23m: And the SHORAD which has a 30mm and Stingers for air defense and/or Hellfires for anti tank: https://www.janes.com/images/default-source/news-images/fg_3955734-jdw-11716.jpg?sfvrsn=c0e9d2dd_2 Makes me wonder what we are going to do with the TOW version. Reconfigure/rebuild? Keep? The Hellfires are for air defense as well with anti-armor only a secondary roll. Apparently the millimeter wave radar guided version is very versatile. |
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Posted: 1/6/2023 1:21:01 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperSixOne: These old NATO tanks are 105mm, not 120. Does anyone even have ammo stocks for that? |
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Posted: 1/6/2023 1:22:42 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: My thinking is that 150 Bradleys would be a big help for a large sweep from Zapo to Melitopol. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
So in a hot zone like Bahkmut, how would a Bradley with TOWs and that gun be used? Would it be used in fast assaults like they use humvees with .50s? Would they use it to flank Russian armor and try to TOW it? A troop transport that can hold its own? All the above? My thinking is that 150 Bradleys would be a big help for a large sweep from Zapo to Melitopol. |
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