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Posted: 2/6/2022 12:47:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Cincinnatus]
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: You're a fool to think that I'm PRO RUSSIAN. Just because I'm not pushing for a war and am telling you what I'm seeing here doesn't make me a mouthpiece of Putin. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Seems more likely that Putin would like the cut of your jib. Might even offer you a job in his communications department of his occupation force. You're a fool to think that I'm PRO RUSSIAN. Just because I'm not pushing for a war and am telling you what I'm seeing here doesn't make me a mouthpiece of Putin. You’re in Ukraine. The majority of Russia’s entire ground force is massed across the border from you. Without exception, EVERY indicator points towards a Putin intention to invade and conquer Ukraine. Your insistence that YOU are “not pushing for a war” is as irrelevant as being on the beach, and adamantly opposed to high tide. Are you “pushing” for resistance and defiance? Are you “pushing” back, at all? Sounds more like your pushing excuses that favor the Russian perspective. You quack and waddle, but insist you are not a duck. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 12:49:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BerettaGuy: No insult to your girlfriend's family, I'm basing my comments on your comments. No I am not there now and you are there because your girlfriend is there not because you went to defend Ukraine. My family left in the 1940s due to German and Russian occupation. I've stated my background regarding Ukraine several times on various threads. You are miserable at reading comprehension. So, what ties to you have in UA? When was the last time you were here? When are you coming to fight the Russians? With all your talk and being such a pro Ukrainian, I would have thought you had put yourself on a plane weeks ago. It is so MUCH EASIER for Americans to push for a war with Russia. Ukrainians don't want to this. Otherwise this conflict would have ended 7 years ago, win or lose. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 12:50:00 PM EDT
[#3]
Oh, look.
We’re back to pointless purse-swinging again. 
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Posted: 2/6/2022 12:52:38 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: You’re in Ukraine. The majority of Russia’s entire ground force is massed across the border from you. Without exception, EVERY indicator points towards a Putin intention to invade and conquer Ukraine. Your insistence that YOU are “not pushing for a war” is irrelevant. Are you “pushing” for resistance and defiance? Are you “pushing” back, at all? Sounds more like your pushing excuses that favor the Russian perspective. You quack and waddle, but insist you are not a duck. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: Originally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Seems more likely that Putin would like the cut of your jib. Might even offer you a job in his communications department of his occupation force. You're a fool to think that I'm PRO RUSSIAN. Just because I'm not pushing for a war and am telling you what I'm seeing here doesn't make me a mouthpiece of Putin. You’re in Ukraine. The majority of Russia’s entire ground force is massed across the border from you. Without exception, EVERY indicator points towards a Putin intention to invade and conquer Ukraine. Your insistence that YOU are “not pushing for a war” is irrelevant. Are you “pushing” for resistance and defiance? Are you “pushing” back, at all? Sounds more like your pushing excuses that favor the Russian perspective. You quack and waddle, but insist you are not a duck. That's no argument. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 12:53:36 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OBird: Oh, look. We’re back to pointless purse-swinging again. Of course! 
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Posted: 2/6/2022 12:53:52 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wtfboombrb: That's no argument. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wtfboombrb: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Originally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Seems more likely that Putin would like the cut of your jib. Might even offer you a job in his communications department of his occupation force. You're a fool to think that I'm PRO RUSSIAN. Just because I'm not pushing for a war and am telling you what I'm seeing here doesn't make me a mouthpiece of Putin. You’re in Ukraine. The majority of Russia’s entire ground force is massed across the border from you. Without exception, EVERY indicator points towards a Putin intention to invade and conquer Ukraine. Your insistence that YOU are “not pushing for a war” is irrelevant. Are you “pushing” for resistance and defiance? Are you “pushing” back, at all? Sounds more like your pushing excuses that favor the Russian perspective. You quack and waddle, but insist you are not a duck. That's no argument. It’s a direct argument against the claims being made. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 12:55:53 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: Seems more likely that Putin would like the cut of your jib. Might even offer you a job in his communications department of his occupation force. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 12:55:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BerettaGuy: Ukrainians will not accept Russian occupation so unless Putin is planning a second Russian genocide of Ukraine on a scale never seen before, he cant occupy it. I can see Putin seizing some sparsely populated obalsts which are plains in the east and some in the south along with the occupied parts of Donbass since they will just roll in there. You are correct about a slow roll as far as working to get Russians inside politically like he did with Yanukovich. That is just crazy talk. There's no way that you'll see over 4MM Ukrainians fight to the death here. (Holodomor). Speaking of. Was your family living in Poland in the 30s? I ask because Western Ukrainians didn't do anything to save their fellow "countrymen" from the Russians and to this day don't make as big of a deal about the Holodomor as those in the East. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 12:56:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: You're in Ukraine. The majority of Russia's entire ground force is massed across the border from you. Without exception, EVERY indicator points towards a Putin intention to invade and conquer Ukraine. Your insistence that YOU are "not pushing for a war" is as irrelevant as being on the beach, and adamantly opposed to high tide. Are you "pushing" for resistance and defiance? Are you "pushing" back, at all? Sounds more like your pushing excuses that favor the Russian perspective. You quack and waddle, but insist you are not a duck. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 12:58:09 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: It’s a direct argument against the claims being made. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: Originally Posted By wtfboombrb: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Originally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Seems more likely that Putin would like the cut of your jib. Might even offer you a job in his communications department of his occupation force. You're a fool to think that I'm PRO RUSSIAN. Just because I'm not pushing for a war and am telling you what I'm seeing here doesn't make me a mouthpiece of Putin. You’re in Ukraine. The majority of Russia’s entire ground force is massed across the border from you. Without exception, EVERY indicator points towards a Putin intention to invade and conquer Ukraine. Your insistence that YOU are “not pushing for a war” is irrelevant. Are you “pushing” for resistance and defiance? Are you “pushing” back, at all? Sounds more like your pushing excuses that favor the Russian perspective. You quack and waddle, but insist you are not a duck. That's no argument. It’s a direct argument against the claims being made. Both of you are swinging purses at this point, nothing more. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 12:59:40 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wtfboombrb: Both of you are swinging purses at this point, nothing more. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wtfboombrb: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Originally Posted By wtfboombrb: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Originally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Seems more likely that Putin would like the cut of your jib. Might even offer you a job in his communications department of his occupation force. You're a fool to think that I'm PRO RUSSIAN. Just because I'm not pushing for a war and am telling you what I'm seeing here doesn't make me a mouthpiece of Putin. You’re in Ukraine. The majority of Russia’s entire ground force is massed across the border from you. Without exception, EVERY indicator points towards a Putin intention to invade and conquer Ukraine. Your insistence that YOU are “not pushing for a war” is irrelevant. Are you “pushing” for resistance and defiance? Are you “pushing” back, at all? Sounds more like your pushing excuses that favor the Russian perspective. You quack and waddle, but insist you are not a duck. That's no argument. It’s a direct argument against the claims being made. Both of you are swinging purses at this point, nothing more. That’s no argument. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 1:01:15 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: I know Tboy I have hung out with him on many occasions. He is not one that would give support to Putin. He is giving us his honest thought on what he sees. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Seems more likely that Putin would like the cut of your jib. Might even offer you a job in his communications department of his occupation force. I don’t doubt for a second that he is giving his perspective. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 1:01:42 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wtfboombrb: Are you aware of the deep ethnic and political divisions in Ukraine? We are a homologous society compared to them. I'm being told by there are some of the younger generation that don't care who's in power. I was sitting at FRA Monday night waiting to get on my flight to LWO when I started to talk to a couple of Ukrainian girls. I had to channel a couple of posters here and scold them for speaking Russian instead of Ukrainian and they just laughed it off. I then had the chance to listen to a few young Ukrainian men singing Russian gangster songs at the local Karaoke bar Thursday night (which upset one of my Ukrainian friends). |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 1:02:30 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: He is not a duck. I think a duck would offer more intelligent conversation than “what Ukraine needs to do is provoke a full fledged invasion wherein Kyiv is razed and a psychopath installed as a puppet because then Russia would focus on Europe instead”. This is one of the outright stupidest things I have ever read on this site. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 1:03:04 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: That’s no argument. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: Originally Posted By wtfboombrb: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Originally Posted By wtfboombrb: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Originally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Seems more likely that Putin would like the cut of your jib. Might even offer you a job in his communications department of his occupation force. You're a fool to think that I'm PRO RUSSIAN. Just because I'm not pushing for a war and am telling you what I'm seeing here doesn't make me a mouthpiece of Putin. You’re in Ukraine. The majority of Russia’s entire ground force is massed across the border from you. Without exception, EVERY indicator points towards a Putin intention to invade and conquer Ukraine. Your insistence that YOU are “not pushing for a war” is irrelevant. Are you “pushing” for resistance and defiance? Are you “pushing” back, at all? Sounds more like your pushing excuses that favor the Russian perspective. You quack and waddle, but insist you are not a duck. That's no argument. It’s a direct argument against the claims being made. Both of you are swinging purses at this point, nothing more. That’s no argument. It's the truth in describing the path this argument has taken. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 1:04:44 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wtfboombrb: It's the truth in describing the path this argument has taken. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wtfboombrb: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Originally Posted By wtfboombrb: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Originally Posted By wtfboombrb: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Originally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Seems more likely that Putin would like the cut of your jib. Might even offer you a job in his communications department of his occupation force. You're a fool to think that I'm PRO RUSSIAN. Just because I'm not pushing for a war and am telling you what I'm seeing here doesn't make me a mouthpiece of Putin. You’re in Ukraine. The majority of Russia’s entire ground force is massed across the border from you. Without exception, EVERY indicator points towards a Putin intention to invade and conquer Ukraine. Your insistence that YOU are “not pushing for a war” is irrelevant. Are you “pushing” for resistance and defiance? Are you “pushing” back, at all? Sounds more like your pushing excuses that favor the Russian perspective. You quack and waddle, but insist you are not a duck. That's no argument. It’s a direct argument against the claims being made. Both of you are swinging purses at this point, nothing more. That’s no argument. It's the truth in describing the path this argument has taken. What argument? |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 1:09:26 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: You’re in Ukraine. The majority of Russia’s entire ground force is massed across the border from you. Without exception, EVERY indicator points towards a Putin intention to invade and conquer Ukraine. Your insistence that YOU are “not pushing for a war” is as irrelevant as being on the beach, and adamantly opposed to high tide. Are you “pushing” for resistance and defiance? Are you “pushing” back, at all? Sounds more like your pushing excuses that favor the Russian perspective. You quack and waddle, but insist you are not a duck. I'm giving your speech to the locals and the biggest response I get is "we're next to Poland so we're safe". I asked my landlord the other day what he was going to do when Russia invades. He just looked at me, smiled, laughed, and said that he'd go inside his apartment. Based on your skewed views, many (if not most) of Ukrainians are siding with Russia since they aren't doing what you want them to do. How about you fly over here and walk around the streets talking with the locals to get their perspectives. It's a mixed bunch. They are mostly unified in that they want to be left alone but they also aren't willing to do the heavy lifting by taking care of themselves. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 1:10:56 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: I'm being told by there are some of the younger generation that don't care who's in power. I was sitting at FRA Monday night waiting to get on my flight to LWO when I started to talk to a couple of Ukrainian girls. I had to channel a couple of posters here and scold them for speaking Russian instead of Ukrainian and they just laughed it off. I then had the chance to listen to a few young Ukrainian men singing Russian gangster songs at the local Karaoke bar Thursday night (which upset one of my Ukrainian friends). Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By wtfboombrb: Are you aware of the deep ethnic and political divisions in Ukraine? We are a homologous society compared to them. I'm being told by there are some of the younger generation that don't care who's in power. I was sitting at FRA Monday night waiting to get on my flight to LWO when I started to talk to a couple of Ukrainian girls. I had to channel a couple of posters here and scold them for speaking Russian instead of Ukrainian and they just laughed it off. I then had the chance to listen to a few young Ukrainian men singing Russian gangster songs at the local Karaoke bar Thursday night (which upset one of my Ukrainian friends). Ukraine would have worked best as a neutral country, but the west blew it by pushing an allegiance to the west. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 1:12:15 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: I don't doubt for a second that he is giving his perspective. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 1:14:49 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OBird: I wonder if they just mean on average, because it looks like it's gonna be above freezing quite a bit coming up https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/62477/10D07880-B9E5-4917-B8D5-A13665DDD6F6_jpe-2268701.JPG |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 1:15:30 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: That is just crazy talk. There's no way that you'll see over 4MM Ukrainians fight to the death here. (Holodomor). Speaking of. Was your family living in Poland in the 30s? I ask because Western Ukrainians didn't do anything to save their fellow "countrymen" from the Russians and to this day don't make as big of a deal about the Holodomor as those in the East. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: Ukrainians will not accept Russian occupation so unless Putin is planning a second Russian genocide of Ukraine on a scale never seen before, he cant occupy it. I can see Putin seizing some sparsely populated obalsts which are plains in the east and some in the south along with the occupied parts of Donbass since they will just roll in there. You are correct about a slow roll as far as working to get Russians inside politically like he did with Yanukovich. That is just crazy talk. There's no way that you'll see over 4MM Ukrainians fight to the death here. (Holodomor). Speaking of. Was your family living in Poland in the 30s? I ask because Western Ukrainians didn't do anything to save their fellow "countrymen" from the Russians and to this day don't make as big of a deal about the Holodomor as those in the East. HOLY. CRAP. The Ukrainian Insurgent Army operated into the 1950s. Holodomor is not a big deal to Ukrainians??? Are you insane??? |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 1:20:47 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BerettaGuy: HOLY. CRAP. The Ukrainian Insurgent Army operated into the 1950s. Holodomor is not a big deal to Ukrainians??? Are you insane??? I'm guessing half the country doesn't see it as a big deal. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 1:22:14 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wtfboombrb: I'm guessing half the country doesn't see it as a big deal. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wtfboombrb: Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: HOLY. CRAP. The Ukrainian Insurgent Army operated into the 1950s. Holodomor is not a big deal to Ukrainians??? Are you insane??? I'm guessing half the country doesn't see it as a big deal. Your guess is based on complete ignorance of Ukrainian history and politics. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 1:24:39 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wtfboombrb: Both of you are swinging purses at this point, nothing more. He's attacking what I'm telling everyone what I'm seeing on the ground here in Lviv. I know what I'm saying isn't popular here but it's what I'm seeing and hearing. The Ukrainian economy is getting squeezed by all this war posturing which is very frustrating, especially since this has been going on for 8 years. Do we want this thread to be a typical echo chamber where all the members make bold claims or should we be allowed to have honest discussions. I welcome any of you to hop on a flight and come fight the Russians, if that's what you want. On a side note, a fellow American listened to a town hall meeting held by the US embassy 2 weeks ago and told me that Ukraine was being put on the ban list of countries to enter while the nonessential employees and families were being evacuated. Well, I flew out and back in without any issues. I know this might upset some here but I also talked with a diplomat friend (EU country) asking them what their orders were. I was told business as usual with no exit orders. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 1:27:08 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BerettaGuy: Your guess is based on complete ignorance of Ukrainian history and politics. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BerettaGuy: Originally Posted By wtfboombrb: Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: HOLY. CRAP. The Ukrainian Insurgent Army operated into the 1950s. Holodomor is not a big deal to Ukrainians??? Are you insane??? I'm guessing half the country doesn't see it as a big deal. Your guess is based on complete ignorance of Ukrainian history and politics. Let's learn. How far back should we go? |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 1:27:55 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By outofbattery: I think a duck would offer more intelligent conversation than “what Ukraine needs to do is provoke a full fledged invasion wherein Kyiv is razed and a psychopath installed as a puppet because then Russia would focus on Europe instead”. This is one of the outright stupidest things I have ever read on this site. Show me where I wrote that about Kiev. I made comments to locals that they should take the fight to Russia. One guy looked at me, claimed to know certain things, and stated that certain actions had been happening but you'd never read about it in the news. Is he telling me the truth? I don't know. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 1:30:14 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wtfboombrb: Ukraine would have worked best as a neutral country, but the west blew it by pushing an allegiance to the west. I've been telling this to anybody that would listen. I explain the best thing for Ukraine is a STRONG INDEPENDENT UKRAINE with solid treaties instead of joining EU, NATO, or RF. Some get it but others have the mentality that they need their hand to be held. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 1:32:55 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: He's attacking what I'm telling everyone what I'm seeing on the ground here in Lviv. I know what I'm saying isn't popular here but it's what I'm seeing and hearing. The Ukrainian economy is getting squeezed by all this war posturing which is very frustrating, especially since this has been going on for 8 years. Do we want this thread to be a typical echo chamber where all the members make bold claims or should we be allowed to have honest discussions. I welcome any of you to hop on a flight and come fight the Russians, if that's what you want. On a side note, a fellow American listened to a town hall meeting held by the US embassy 2 weeks ago and told me that Ukraine was being put on the ban list of countries to enter while the nonessential employees and families were being evacuated. Well, I flew out and back in without any issues. I know this might upset some here but I also talked with a diplomat friend (EU country) asking them what their orders were. I was told business as usual with no exit orders. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By wtfboombrb: Both of you are swinging purses at this point, nothing more. He's attacking what I'm telling everyone what I'm seeing on the ground here in Lviv. I know what I'm saying isn't popular here but it's what I'm seeing and hearing. The Ukrainian economy is getting squeezed by all this war posturing which is very frustrating, especially since this has been going on for 8 years. Do we want this thread to be a typical echo chamber where all the members make bold claims or should we be allowed to have honest discussions. I welcome any of you to hop on a flight and come fight the Russians, if that's what you want. On a side note, a fellow American listened to a town hall meeting held by the US embassy 2 weeks ago and told me that Ukraine was being put on the ban list of countries to enter while the nonessential employees and families were being evacuated. Well, I flew out and back in without any issues. I know this might upset some here but I also talked with a diplomat friend (EU country) asking them what their orders were. I was told business as usual with no exit orders. A married couple in my church who are very knowledgeable about Ukraine (and have close ties in Ukraine) flew there last week on a mission. I had some very interesting discussions with them. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 1:34:52 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Says the guy sitting in front of his keyboard in Ohio. What do you have to lose if/when Russia attacks?? Do you still have family here? Own property here? What ties do you have to UA? And, yes, I do like my hot showers. And, yes, I know that all our communications are being monitored on this forum. And, yes, I know I'm most likely on many watch lists. And, yes, I know that I will be the first to be targeted if/when Russia takes total control of UA (which I doubt is going to happen). I just don't get why so many Americans are pushing for a war here. "I would have signed up, but they have cold showers" |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 1:36:25 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BerettaGuy: HOLY. CRAP. The Ukrainian Insurgent Army operated into the 1950s. Holodomor is not a big deal to Ukrainians??? Are you insane??? You're reading comprehension is still bad. The UIA was an ineffective force that didn't do much of anything with their limited and small attack tactics. Why did they give up in the 50s instead of keeping on the fight until the USSR collapse? Also, I said WESTERN UKRAINE. The locals didn't lose any of their family members during the Holodomor since they were under Polish control so they don't have the horrible stories to retell but they do honor this day. Those in the East were very happy to tell me how miserable things were. Again, the mentalities from Eastern/Western Ukrainians are different. So, when was the last time you visited? Where did you visit? |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 1:39:50 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wtfboombrb: I'm guessing half the country doesn't see it as a big deal. Sadly this is my observation based on my conversations. This has been going on for 8 years so many have conceded that the East is lost while the West is safe. They just want to be left alone to live their lives and if anything bad happens, then they'll do something. What exactly? I don't think many have thought that through since the mindset here is very short term. I've never heard talk about Kiev being in danger until recently so it will be interesting to see what happens. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 1:42:32 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN: "I would have signed up, but they have cold showers" You got me there. I know my weaknesses! |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 1:55:03 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wtfboombrb: Ukraine would have worked best as a neutral country, but the west blew it by pushing an allegiance to the west. The reason my nation isn’t having the same problems as Ukraine is that we weren’t afflicted with being a Russian vassal state run by a cabal of crooks beholden more to Moscow than their people for 30 years. Being neutral was never,ever an option for Ukraine because Russia would never,ever allow this. It is embarrassing that you can’t understand the very root of this issue taking place and instead want to come up with an impossible fantasy as a solution. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 1:58:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dorobuta]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KaerMorhenResident: The Ukrainians are going to have communications issues. Russian Electronic Warfare is on point. They're going to jam GPS and Radios just like last time and anyone who tries to send any signal out will be triangulated and destroyed by massive artillery fire. It's going to be disorganized chaos on the front lines, don't look for very many accurate reports during that first day or two of the invasion, getting a good picture of the front will be difficult. No IADS is going to cost them as well, big time. The Russians Air Force has made some improvements since 2014 and they've had some good operational experience in Syria. The bulk of the Russians coming into Ukraine will be "contract soldiers" as well with high morale, good training, and decent Ratnik gear (it's not great, but not bad). Russian infantry still aren't as well equipped as U.S. infantry, but they're not nearly as bad as they were and much improved from the Georgian conflict. For example, Night Vision still isn't standard for every Russian and I believe most still favor weapon mounting them. The Russians don't have a ton of smart bombs in their stockpile either last I heard, that may have changed recently but I doubt it. Artillery is going to be the big thing in this conflict. Russian artillery is very good, I would go so far as to say "excellent" even. It will be very interesting to see how Russia performs. You can count on this though, however Russia does with this invasion they will be FAR, FAR better in five years after Joe Biden's energy policies and those of NATO have given them all the military modernization money they could possible want. NATO is behind the curve and if it doesn't double its efforts we could be in deep shit in just five years time. if I were in the loop, I'd be pairing radios with a power source and a small processor like an arduino. I'd be seeding these all over the place in worthless locations all set to transmit at random times for random durations. Let the arty waste ammo blowing up nothing. in a package about the size of a coffee can you could rig a pretty decent spoofer to transmit what looks like coded messages. Hell, you could store short voice clips in a flash drive and make it look like legit comms. slave a bunch together to do responses back and forth. put them a few miles apart. let Ivan shell them as much as they want. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 2:02:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: PAspeedmaster]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Sadly this is my observation based on my conversations. This has been going on for 8 years so many have conceded that the East is lost while the West is safe. They just want to be left alone to live their lives and if anything bad happens, then they'll do something. What exactly? I don't think many have thought that through since the mindset here is very short term. I've never heard talk about Kiev being in danger until recently so it will be interesting to see what happens. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By wtfboombrb: I'm guessing half the country doesn't see it as a big deal. Sadly this is my observation based on my conversations. This has been going on for 8 years so many have conceded that the East is lost while the West is safe. They just want to be left alone to live their lives and if anything bad happens, then they'll do something. What exactly? I don't think many have thought that through since the mindset here is very short term. I've never heard talk about Kiev being in danger until recently so it will be interesting to see what happens. 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/6/2022 2:06:38 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PAspeedmaster: Half of Americans wouldn't fight for our country if China or Russia came over as long as they left cell networks and cable tv alone. Agreed. Lots here would be thankful for the new immigrant ladyboys |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 2:07:08 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: I've been telling this to anybody that would listen. I explain the best thing for Ukraine is a STRONG INDEPENDENT UKRAINE with solid treaties instead of joining EU, NATO, or RF. Some get it but others have the mentality that they need their hand to be held. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By wtfboombrb: Ukraine would have worked best as a neutral country, but the west blew it by pushing an allegiance to the west. I've been telling this to anybody that would listen. I explain the best thing for Ukraine is a STRONG INDEPENDENT UKRAINE with solid treaties instead of joining EU, NATO, or RF. Some get it but others have the mentality that they need their hand to be held. No offense, but that is completely delusional. It was never a realistic option. Literally the ONLY reason Russia has not swallowed the Baltic states (with the usual transparent pretexts of “protecting Russian citizens who are being abused”) is because they joined NATO in 2004. If they had not joined NATO, they would all be gone now - back in the fold of being part of glorious mother Russia. A small and weak country on the border of Russia, which Russia “wants back” has only TWO ways to avoid being eaten. One is to have nukes, and the other is to be part of a large alliance. Ukraine gave up on option 1, and because they haven’t been able to successfully implement option 2in time, they are now fucked. Being a “strong independent Ukraine” - with the military power to resist Russia - is simply not possible, given their economy and their geography. If it were realistically possible, I agree with you that would be best - but it was never a realistic option. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 2:07:42 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PAspeedmaster: Half of Americans wouldn't fight for our country if China or Russia came over as long as they left cell networks and cable tv alone. Cell phones and cheap food. If I had those two things I'd probably pull a Tboy Or whatever |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 2:11:59 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: I just don't get why so many Americans are pushing for a war here. FYI - that right there is why people are accusing you of being a Russian mouthpiece. NOBODY in the west wants a war.  NOBODY is interested in fighting, and NOBODY is interested in sending troops to defend Ukraine. They don’t want a war, and when the war starts they are going to leave Ukraine hanging out to dry, because they are not willing to fight. Russia IS willing to fight, and Russia wants a war. EVERYONE in the west is desperately and naively hoping there will not be a war.Your statement is 100% pure Russian propaganda, nothing else. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 2:18:39 PM EDT
[#40]
Well I'm seeing different attitudes here to the east. Despite language, many here would fight (so they say). We are used to occasional cold showers and are a more robust bunch over here. While most don't want a fight the reality is we are preparing for it.
The woman talks about leaving but Mama doesn't have an updated passport. We aren't going to leave anyone behind. So for now we wait to see what happens before we run for no reason. I don't think Tboy is a Russian troll. He lives in a part of the country that is very different than here. I grew up in the deep south in the woods. I am used to getting by with less and enjoy the eastern part of the country and it's hidden charms. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 2:30:16 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: No offense, but that is completely delusional. It was never a realistic option. Literally the ONLY reason Russia has not swallowed the Baltic states (with the usual transparent pretexts of “protecting Russian citizens who are being abused”) is because they joined NATO in 2004. If they had not joined NATO, they would all be gone now - back in the fold of being part of glorious mother Russia. A small and weak country on the border of Russia, which Russia “wants back” has only TWO ways to avoid being eaten. One is to have nukes, and the other is to be part of a large alliance. Ukraine gave up on option 1, and because they haven’t been able to successfully implement option 2in time, they are now fucked. Being a “strong independent Ukraine” - with the military power to resist Russia - is simply not possible, given their economy and their geography. If it were realistically possible, I agree with you that would be best - but it was never a realistic option. Why can't they try? I'm talking long term, not past or current. This is more of a Ukrainian problem than a Russia issue in my eyes after interacting with the natives for a decade and then moving here. This is not an immediate action but would only be done generationally. There is potential that Ukraine could become an independent country that benefits both the East & West if they tried but their mindset is flawed. We're caught up in the moment but I'm hopeful in the next 20 years that they can get away from their old ways where they depend on handouts & allow corruption & control. The older I get the more I'm against these constant wars & foreigners that we must treat as enemies. I'm also against NATO and think it should be dissolved with the US pulling out and letting Europe fight their own battles. I'm also optimistic enough to think that there can be peace but those in power will never allow this (from both sides) because WAR is big business. But I'm a realist and prepared for anything these next few months. Sadly, I'm more prepared than that vast majority of people around me because many just don't want to think worst case scenario. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 2:33:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 715700]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: FYI - that right there is why people are accusing you of being a Russian mouthpiece. NOBODY in the west wants a war. NOBODY is interested in fighting, and NOBODY is interested in sending troops to defend Ukraine. They don’t want a war, and when the war starts they are going to leave Ukraine hanging out to dry, because they are not willing to fight. Russia IS willing to fight, and Russia wants a war. EVERYONE in the west is desperately and naively hoping there will not be a war.Your statement is 100% pure Russian propaganda, nothing else. There exists an alternative explanation,the poor lad actually believes it. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 2:33:22 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: FYI - that right there is why people are accusing you of being a Russian mouthpiece. NOBODY in the west wants a war. NOBODY is interested in fighting, and NOBODY is interested in sending troops to defend Ukraine. They don’t want a war, and when the war starts they are going to leave Ukraine hanging out to dry, because they are not willing to fight. Russia IS willing to fight, and Russia wants a war. EVERYONE in the west is desperately and naively hoping there will not be a war.Your statement is 100% pure Russian propaganda, nothing else. Now you're being delusional. WAR is big business. Just because I don't agree with the hive doesn't mean that I support Russia. There are many factual things that RT says about Biden that I agree with. Does that make me a Russian troll? |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 2:45:20 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Easterner: Well I'm seeing different attitudes here to the east. Despite language, many here would fight (so they say). We are used to occasional cold showers and are a more robust bunch over here. While most don't want a fight the reality is we are preparing for it. The woman talks about leaving but Mama doesn't have an updated passport. We aren't going to leave anyone behind. So for now we wait to see what happens before we run for no reason. I don't think Tboy is a Russian troll. He lives in a part of the country that is very different than here. I grew up in the deep south in the woods. I am used to getting by with less and enjoy the eastern part of the country and it's hidden charms. I'm in the West where many feel safe. Many of those that didn't want to fight 8 years ago have already moved away to places like Lviv so there are different mindsets. This is why I usually ask the locals where they're from when I start talking to them to get a better understanding of their mindset. Most here think that they will be protected, unlike those in the East, that should be worried. I have an American friend that said he's been talking to local young guys here that are terrified to go to war. Older men I talk with are willing to fight, knowing that they aren't going to be drafted. Maybe it's generational? Maybe it's Soviet vs Western think. I do know that I haven't seen any military equipment or armed soldiers in the city. Everything appears to be life as usual with the biggest immediate concern if we'll enter the Red Zone for Covid. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 2:54:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Cincinnatus]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: FYI - that right there is why people are accusing you of being a Russian mouthpiece. NOBODY in the west wants a war. NOBODY is interested in fighting, and NOBODY is interested in sending troops to defend Ukraine. They don’t want a war, and when the war starts they are going to leave Ukraine hanging out to dry, because they are not willing to fight. Russia IS willing to fight, and Russia wants a war. EVERYONE in the west is desperately and naively hoping there will not be a war.Your statement is 100% pure Russian propaganda, nothing else. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Originally Posted By Tboy: I just don't get why so many Americans are pushing for a war here. FYI - that right there is why people are accusing you of being a Russian mouthpiece. NOBODY in the west wants a war. NOBODY is interested in fighting, and NOBODY is interested in sending troops to defend Ukraine. They don’t want a war, and when the war starts they are going to leave Ukraine hanging out to dry, because they are not willing to fight. Russia IS willing to fight, and Russia wants a war. EVERYONE in the west is desperately and naively hoping there will not be a war.Your statement is 100% pure Russian propaganda, nothing else. This is the strange phenomenon of GD and Russia… If you dare to notice the glaring indicators of an impending Russian invasion, you are accused of wanting or “pushing” for a war. Coincidentally, Putin insists that there is no proof he intends to invade. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 2/6/2022 3:00:56 PM EDT
[#46]
All I can say is that if I were a Ukrainian right now I'd either sign up to fight or GTFO of dodge. No hoping or praying this one away. I've never seen so many forces mobilized for anything else accept an invasion.
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AK, USA
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Posted: 2/6/2022 3:02:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: feetpiece]
[#47]
delete
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Posted: 2/6/2022 3:17:38 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By feetpiece: delete Did you @ me, and then delete your post? |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 3:30:14 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By outofbattery: There exists an alternative explanation,the poor lad actually believes it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By outofbattery: Originally Posted By DK-Prof: FYI - that right there is why people are accusing you of being a Russian mouthpiece. NOBODY in the west wants a war. NOBODY is interested in fighting, and NOBODY is interested in sending troops to defend Ukraine. They don’t want a war, and when the war starts they are going to leave Ukraine hanging out to dry, because they are not willing to fight. Russia IS willing to fight, and Russia wants a war. EVERYONE in the west is desperately and naively hoping there will not be a war.Your statement is 100% pure Russian propaganda, nothing else. There exists an alternative explanation,the poor lad actually believes it. The MIC in this country runs the show. Neoconservatism lives. We need to spend more time working on us. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:38:01 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wtfboombrb: The MIC in this country runs the show. Neoconservatism lives. We need to spend more time working on us. You forgot to mention something about luciferian globalists and how Putin is standing up to globohomo. |
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