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Posted: 6/13/2023 3:23:29 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO:
Some of the reports I read mention the nukes were sent to Belarus for storage. Does Belarus have any launch capability separate from Russian controlled assets? If not , Lukashenko is a twat for saber rattling with only a scabbard. He may want to check with his boss’ boss (Xi) before mouthing off. |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 3:26:46 PM EDT
[#2]
Putin ponders: Should Russia try to take Kyiv again?
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-says-ukraines-losses-are-vast-so-far-failed-counteroffensive-2023-06-13/ MOSCOW, June 13 (Reuters) - President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday that any further mobilisation would depend on what Russia wanted to achieve in the war in Ukraine, adding that he faced a question only he could answer - should Russia try to take Kyiv again? More than 15 months since Putin sent troops into Ukraine, Russian and Ukrainian forces are still battling with artillery, tanks and drones along a 1,000-km (600-mile) front line, though well away from the capital Kyiv. Using the word "war" several times, Putin offered a barrage of warnings to the West, suggesting Russia may have to impose a "sanitary zone" in Ukraine to prevent it attacking Russia and saying Moscow was considering ditching the Black Sea grain deal. Russia, he said, had no need for nationwide martial law and would keep responding to breaches of its red lines. Many in the United States, Putin said, did not want World War Three, though Washington gave the impression it was unafraid of escalation. But his most puzzling remark was about Kyiv, which Russian forces tried - and failed - to capture just hours after Putin ordered troops into Ukraine on February 24 last year. "Should we return there or not? Why am I asking such a rhetorical question?" Putin told 18 Russian war correspondents and bloggers in the Kremlin. "Only I can answer this myself," Putin said. His comments on Kyiv - during several hours of answering questions - were shown on Russian state television. Russian troops were beaten back from Kyiv and eventually withdrew to a swathe of land in Ukraine's east and south which Putin has declared is now part of Russia. Ukraine says it will never rest until every Russian soldier is ejected from its land. Putin last September announced what he said was a "partial mobilisation" of 300,000 reservists, triggering an exodus of at least as many Russian men who sought to dodge the draft by leaving for republics of the former Soviet Union. Asked about another call-up by state TV war correspondent Alexander Sladkov, Putin said: "There is no such need today." MOBILISATION? Russia's paramount leader, though, was less than definitive on the topic, saying it depended on what Moscow wanted to achieve and pointing out that some public figures thought Russia needed 1 million or even 2 million additional men in uniform. "It depends on what we want," Putin said. Though Russia now controls about 18% of Ukraine's territory, the war has underscored the fault lines of the once mighty Russian armed forces and the vast human cost of fighting urban battles such as in Bakhmut, a small eastern city one twentieth the area of Kyiv. Putin said the conflict had shown Russia had a lack of high-precision munitions and complex communications equipment. He said Russia had established control over "almost all" of what he casts as "Novorossiya" (New Russia), a Tsarist-era imperial term for a swathe of southern Ukraine which is now used by Russian nationalists. At times using Russian slang, Putin said Russia was not going to change course in Ukraine. Russia's future plans in Ukraine, he said, would be decided once the Ukrainian counteroffensive, which he said began on June 4, was over. Ukraine's offensive has not been successful in any area, Putin said, adding that Ukrainian human losses were 10 times greater than Russia's. Ukraine had lost over 160 of its tanks and 25-30% of the vehicles supplied from abroad, he said, while Russia had lost 54 tanks. Ukraine said it has made gains in the counteroffensive. Reuters could not independently verify statements from either side about the battlefield. Putin further said Ukraine had deliberately hit the Kakhovka hydro-electric dam on June 6 with U.S.-supplied HIMARS rockets, a step he said had also hindered Kyiv's counteroffensive efforts. Ukraine says Russia blew up the dam, which Russian forces captured early in the war. Putin said Russia needed to fight enemy agents and improve its defences against attacks deep inside its own territory, but that there was no need to follow Ukraine's example and declare martial law. "There is no reason to introduce some kind of special regime or martial law in the country. There is no need for such a thing today." |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 3:28:22 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 6/13/2023 3:38:41 PM EDT
[#4]
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/13/2023 3:41:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GBTX01]
[#5]
BEAT
 Hopefully they can take these out on the ground! |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 3:41:50 PM EDT
[#6]
howitzers is very positive. The fighters note the quality and outstanding characteristics of powerful German weapons. According to him, the barrel on the howitzer actually needs to be replaced after 4,500 rounds. But Ukrainian troops fire up to 20,000 rounds. “Other barrels would have cracked long ago in such a situation,” Papperger summed up, commenting on how German equipment performed on the battlefield in Ukraine. |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 3:42:14 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bikedamon: Putin ponders: Should Russia try to take Kyiv again? https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-says-ukraines-losses-are-vast-so-far-failed-counteroffensive-2023-06-13/ MOSCOW, June 13 (Reuters) - President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday that any further mobilisation would depend on what Russia wanted to achieve in the war in Ukraine, adding that he faced a question only he could answer - should Russia try to take Kyiv again? More than 15 months since Putin sent troops into Ukraine, Russian and Ukrainian forces are still battling with artillery, tanks and drones along a 1,000-km (600-mile) front line, though well away from the capital Kyiv. Using the word "war" several times, Putin offered a barrage of warnings to the West, suggesting Russia may have to impose a "sanitary zone" in Ukraine to prevent it attacking Russia and saying Moscow was considering ditching the Black Sea grain deal. Russia, he said, had no need for nationwide martial law and would keep responding to breaches of its red lines. Many in the United States, Putin said, did not want World War Three, though Washington gave the impression it was unafraid of escalation. But his most puzzling remark was about Kyiv, which Russian forces tried - and failed - to capture just hours after Putin ordered troops into Ukraine on February 24 last year. "Should we return there or not? Why am I asking such a rhetorical question?" Putin told 18 Russian war correspondents and bloggers in the Kremlin. "Only I can answer this myself," Putin said. His comments on Kyiv - during several hours of answering questions - were shown on Russian state television. Russian troops were beaten back from Kyiv and eventually withdrew to a swathe of land in Ukraine's east and south which Putin has declared is now part of Russia. Ukraine says it will never rest until every Russian soldier is ejected from its land. Putin last September announced what he said was a "partial mobilisation" of 300,000 reservists, triggering an exodus of at least as many Russian men who sought to dodge the draft by leaving for republics of the former Soviet Union. Asked about another call-up by state TV war correspondent Alexander Sladkov, Putin said: "There is no such need today." MOBILISATION? Russia's paramount leader, though, was less than definitive on the topic, saying it depended on what Moscow wanted to achieve and pointing out that some public figures thought Russia needed 1 million or even 2 million additional men in uniform. "It depends on what we want," Putin said. Though Russia now controls about 18% of Ukraine's territory, the war has underscored the fault lines of the once mighty Russian armed forces and the vast human cost of fighting urban battles such as in Bakhmut, a small eastern city one twentieth the area of Kyiv. Putin said the conflict had shown Russia had a lack of high-precision munitions and complex communications equipment. He said Russia had established control over "almost all" of what he casts as "Novorossiya" (New Russia), a Tsarist-era imperial term for a swathe of southern Ukraine which is now used by Russian nationalists. At times using Russian slang, Putin said Russia was not going to change course in Ukraine. Russia's future plans in Ukraine, he said, would be decided once the Ukrainian counteroffensive, which he said began on June 4, was over. Ukraine's offensive has not been successful in any area, Putin said, adding that Ukrainian human losses were 10 times greater than Russia's. Ukraine had lost over 160 of its tanks and 25-30% of the vehicles supplied from abroad, he said, while Russia had lost 54 tanks. Ukraine said it has made gains in the counteroffensive. Reuters could not independently verify statements from either side about the battlefield. Putin further said Ukraine had deliberately hit the Kakhovka hydro-electric dam on June 6 with U.S.-supplied HIMARS rockets, a step he said had also hindered Kyiv's counteroffensive efforts. Ukraine says Russia blew up the dam, which Russian forces captured early in the war. Putin said Russia needed to fight enemy agents and improve its defences against attacks deep inside its own territory, but that there was no need to follow Ukraine's example and declare martial law. "There is no reason to introduce some kind of special regime or martial law in the country. There is no need for such a thing today." I suspect Putin's "taking Kyiv" is another vieled nuclear threat. |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 3:44:12 PM EDT
[#8]
This is funny!
Vladimir Lilliputin
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Posted: 6/13/2023 3:45:20 PM EDT
[#9]
Originally Posted By GBTX01: BEAT
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fyhr7wzWIAAYj48?format=jpg&name=large Hopefully they can take these out on the ground! Man would it be great if that got hit hard. |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 3:49:22 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bikedamon: Putin ponders: Should Russia try to take Kyiv again? https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-says-ukraines-losses-are-vast-so-far-failed-counteroffensive-2023-06-13/ MOSCOW, June 13 (Reuters) - President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday that any further mobilisation would depend on what Russia wanted to achieve in the war in Ukraine, adding that he faced a question only he could answer - should Russia try to take Kyiv again? More than 15 months since Putin sent troops into Ukraine, Russian and Ukrainian forces are still battling with artillery, tanks and drones along a 1,000-km (600-mile) front line, though well away from the capital Kyiv. Using the word "war" several times, Putin offered a barrage of warnings to the West, suggesting Russia may have to impose a "sanitary zone" in Ukraine to prevent it attacking Russia and saying Moscow was considering ditching the Black Sea grain deal. Russia, he said, had no need for nationwide martial law and would keep responding to breaches of its red lines. Many in the United States, Putin said, did not want World War Three, though Washington gave the impression it was unafraid of escalation. But his most puzzling remark was about Kyiv, which Russian forces tried - and failed - to capture just hours after Putin ordered troops into Ukraine on February 24 last year. "Should we return there or not? Why am I asking such a rhetorical question?" Putin told 18 Russian war correspondents and bloggers in the Kremlin. "Only I can answer this myself," Putin said. His comments on Kyiv - during several hours of answering questions - were shown on Russian state television. Russian troops were beaten back from Kyiv and eventually withdrew to a swathe of land in Ukraine's east and south which Putin has declared is now part of Russia. Ukraine says it will never rest until every Russian soldier is ejected from its land. Putin last September announced what he said was a "partial mobilisation" of 300,000 reservists, triggering an exodus of at least as many Russian men who sought to dodge the draft by leaving for republics of the former Soviet Union. Asked about another call-up by state TV war correspondent Alexander Sladkov, Putin said: "There is no such need today." MOBILISATION? Russia's paramount leader, though, was less than definitive on the topic, saying it depended on what Moscow wanted to achieve and pointing out that some public figures thought Russia needed 1 million or even 2 million additional men in uniform. "It depends on what we want," Putin said. Though Russia now controls about 18% of Ukraine's territory, the war has underscored the fault lines of the once mighty Russian armed forces and the vast human cost of fighting urban battles such as in Bakhmut, a small eastern city one twentieth the area of Kyiv. Putin said the conflict had shown Russia had a lack of high-precision munitions and complex communications equipment. He said Russia had established control over "almost all" of what he casts as "Novorossiya" (New Russia), a Tsarist-era imperial term for a swathe of southern Ukraine which is now used by Russian nationalists. At times using Russian slang, Putin said Russia was not going to change course in Ukraine. Russia's future plans in Ukraine, he said, would be decided once the Ukrainian counteroffensive, which he said began on June 4, was over. Ukraine's offensive has not been successful in any area, Putin said, adding that Ukrainian human losses were 10 times greater than Russia's. Ukraine had lost over 160 of its tanks and 25-30% of the vehicles supplied from abroad, he said, while Russia had lost 54 tanks. Ukraine said it has made gains in the counteroffensive. Reuters could not independently verify statements from either side about the battlefield. Putin further said Ukraine had deliberately hit the Kakhovka hydro-electric dam on June 6 with U.S.-supplied HIMARS rockets, a step he said had also hindered Kyiv's counteroffensive efforts. Ukraine says Russia blew up the dam, which Russian forces captured early in the war. Putin said Russia needed to fight enemy agents and improve its defences against attacks deep inside its own territory, but that there was no need to follow Ukraine's example and declare martial law. "There is no reason to introduce some kind of special regime or martial law in the country. There is no need for such a thing today." Unless China starts sending weapons, Russia has already peaked. |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 3:49:23 PM EDT
[#11]
More UK goodness!
 These funds will be spent on strengthening the air defense capabilities of our country In particular, this package provides for the transfer to our defenders of radars to detect Russian targets, as well as guns and a significant amount of ammunition This assistance will allow Ukraine to more effectively protect its critical infrastructure, civilian population and frontline military. |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 3:53:48 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
howitzers is very positive. The fighters note the quality and outstanding characteristics of powerful German weapons. According to him, the barrel on the howitzer actually needs to be replaced after 4,500 rounds. But Ukrainian troops fire up to 20,000 rounds. “Other barrels would have cracked long ago in such a situation,” Papperger summed up, commenting on how German equipment performed on the battlefield in Ukraine. I'd imagine being around a howitzer that banana peels is not the place you'd want to be. |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 3:57:50 PM EDT
[#13]
Where are the 200-300 M60 tanks supposed to be coming from? While not the most well protected or armed, they are still pretty decent tanks. I'd much rather be in an M60A3 than most of the Russian tanks, especially the POS T-62s they've been dragging out of storage lately. Any that survive the war could then be modified to the Israeli Sabra standard (or the Leonardo package) and continue serving in the reserves into the future. Any armored vehicle on tracks or wheels that can be armed with a 20mm cannon all the way up to a 120mm main gun can be used in Ukraine right now. Hopefully even more usable M60s can be located and sourced from other places.
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Posted: 6/13/2023 3:58:39 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jungatheart: I suspect Putin's "taking Kyiv" is another vieled nuclear threat. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jungatheart: Originally Posted By bikedamon: Putin ponders: Should Russia try to take Kyiv again? https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-says-ukraines-losses-are-vast-so-far-failed-counteroffensive-2023-06-13/ MOSCOW, June 13 (Reuters) - President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday that any further mobilisation would depend on what Russia wanted to achieve in the war in Ukraine, adding that he faced a question only he could answer - should Russia try to take Kyiv again? More than 15 months since Putin sent troops into Ukraine, Russian and Ukrainian forces are still battling with artillery, tanks and drones along a 1,000-km (600-mile) front line, though well away from the capital Kyiv. Using the word "war" several times, Putin offered a barrage of warnings to the West, suggesting Russia may have to impose a "sanitary zone" in Ukraine to prevent it attacking Russia and saying Moscow was considering ditching the Black Sea grain deal. Russia, he said, had no need for nationwide martial law and would keep responding to breaches of its red lines. Many in the United States, Putin said, did not want World War Three, though Washington gave the impression it was unafraid of escalation. But his most puzzling remark was about Kyiv, which Russian forces tried - and failed - to capture just hours after Putin ordered troops into Ukraine on February 24 last year. "Should we return there or not? Why am I asking such a rhetorical question?" Putin told 18 Russian war correspondents and bloggers in the Kremlin. "Only I can answer this myself," Putin said. His comments on Kyiv - during several hours of answering questions - were shown on Russian state television. Russian troops were beaten back from Kyiv and eventually withdrew to a swathe of land in Ukraine's east and south which Putin has declared is now part of Russia. Ukraine says it will never rest until every Russian soldier is ejected from its land. Putin last September announced what he said was a "partial mobilisation" of 300,000 reservists, triggering an exodus of at least as many Russian men who sought to dodge the draft by leaving for republics of the former Soviet Union. Asked about another call-up by state TV war correspondent Alexander Sladkov, Putin said: "There is no such need today." MOBILISATION? Russia's paramount leader, though, was less than definitive on the topic, saying it depended on what Moscow wanted to achieve and pointing out that some public figures thought Russia needed 1 million or even 2 million additional men in uniform. "It depends on what we want," Putin said. Though Russia now controls about 18% of Ukraine's territory, the war has underscored the fault lines of the once mighty Russian armed forces and the vast human cost of fighting urban battles such as in Bakhmut, a small eastern city one twentieth the area of Kyiv. Putin said the conflict had shown Russia had a lack of high-precision munitions and complex communications equipment. He said Russia had established control over "almost all" of what he casts as "Novorossiya" (New Russia), a Tsarist-era imperial term for a swathe of southern Ukraine which is now used by Russian nationalists. At times using Russian slang, Putin said Russia was not going to change course in Ukraine. Russia's future plans in Ukraine, he said, would be decided once the Ukrainian counteroffensive, which he said began on June 4, was over. Ukraine's offensive has not been successful in any area, Putin said, adding that Ukrainian human losses were 10 times greater than Russia's. Ukraine had lost over 160 of its tanks and 25-30% of the vehicles supplied from abroad, he said, while Russia had lost 54 tanks. Ukraine said it has made gains in the counteroffensive. Reuters could not independently verify statements from either side about the battlefield. Putin further said Ukraine had deliberately hit the Kakhovka hydro-electric dam on June 6 with U.S.-supplied HIMARS rockets, a step he said had also hindered Kyiv's counteroffensive efforts. Ukraine says Russia blew up the dam, which Russian forces captured early in the war. Putin said Russia needed to fight enemy agents and improve its defences against attacks deep inside its own territory, but that there was no need to follow Ukraine's example and declare martial law. "There is no reason to introduce some kind of special regime or martial law in the country. There is no need for such a thing today." I suspect Putin's "taking Kyiv" is another vieled nuclear threat. I agree and think that's the only way to read it. His use of the the previously banned word "war" along with the taking Kyiv comment and stating he sees no need for another mobilization leaves little else to consider. You don't need more manpower to deal with Kyiv via nuclear WAR. |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 3:59:59 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fyg1H9qX0AAYfIk?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fyg2qWaXgAEkWJn?format=jpg&name=large
With Russia shipping drones from Iran to the Caspian Sea ports, Ukraine out to get that new Frigate that Turkey just built them and go interdicting. |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 4:00:27 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: Every morning on the bus to school I'd pass the Kaserne in Germany with rows of M60's lined up turrets pointing outward, as I looked up. A strange sight for so many years - and even stranger since it's gone. When I was a young boy I’d drive out to a lake with my folks and I was always thrilled if I could spot a new M60 going through its paces at the Chrysler proving grounds. It was rare and exiting for me to spot them. |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 4:02:42 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Swampgrass: I'd imagine being around a howitzer that banana peels is not the place you'd want to be. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Swampgrass: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
howitzers is very positive. The fighters note the quality and outstanding characteristics of powerful German weapons. According to him, the barrel on the howitzer actually needs to be replaced after 4,500 rounds. But Ukrainian troops fire up to 20,000 rounds. “Other barrels would have cracked long ago in such a situation,” Papperger summed up, commenting on how German equipment performed on the battlefield in Ukraine. I'd imagine being around a howitzer that banana peels is not the place you'd want to be. Yeah, and I wonder how accurate the barrel is after 20k rounds. |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 4:07:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Auto5guy: I agree and think that's the only way to read it. His use of the the previously banned word "war" along with the taking Kyiv comment and stating he sees no need for another mobilization leaves little else to consider. You don't need more manpower to deal with Kyiv via nuclear WAR. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Auto5guy: Originally Posted By jungatheart: Originally Posted By bikedamon: Putin ponders: Should Russia try to take Kyiv again? https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-says-ukraines-losses-are-vast-so-far-failed-counteroffensive-2023-06-13/ MOSCOW, June 13 (Reuters) - President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday that any further mobilisation would depend on what Russia wanted to achieve in the war in Ukraine, adding that he faced a question only he could answer - should Russia try to take Kyiv again? More than 15 months since Putin sent troops into Ukraine, Russian and Ukrainian forces are still battling with artillery, tanks and drones along a 1,000-km (600-mile) front line, though well away from the capital Kyiv. Using the word "war" several times, Putin offered a barrage of warnings to the West, suggesting Russia may have to impose a "sanitary zone" in Ukraine to prevent it attacking Russia and saying Moscow was considering ditching the Black Sea grain deal. Russia, he said, had no need for nationwide martial law and would keep responding to breaches of its red lines. Many in the United States, Putin said, did not want World War Three, though Washington gave the impression it was unafraid of escalation. But his most puzzling remark was about Kyiv, which Russian forces tried - and failed - to capture just hours after Putin ordered troops into Ukraine on February 24 last year. "Should we return there or not? Why am I asking such a rhetorical question?" Putin told 18 Russian war correspondents and bloggers in the Kremlin. "Only I can answer this myself," Putin said. His comments on Kyiv - during several hours of answering questions - were shown on Russian state television. Russian troops were beaten back from Kyiv and eventually withdrew to a swathe of land in Ukraine's east and south which Putin has declared is now part of Russia. Ukraine says it will never rest until every Russian soldier is ejected from its land. Putin last September announced what he said was a "partial mobilisation" of 300,000 reservists, triggering an exodus of at least as many Russian men who sought to dodge the draft by leaving for republics of the former Soviet Union. Asked about another call-up by state TV war correspondent Alexander Sladkov, Putin said: "There is no such need today." MOBILISATION? Russia's paramount leader, though, was less than definitive on the topic, saying it depended on what Moscow wanted to achieve and pointing out that some public figures thought Russia needed 1 million or even 2 million additional men in uniform. "It depends on what we want," Putin said. Though Russia now controls about 18% of Ukraine's territory, the war has underscored the fault lines of the once mighty Russian armed forces and the vast human cost of fighting urban battles such as in Bakhmut, a small eastern city one twentieth the area of Kyiv. Putin said the conflict had shown Russia had a lack of high-precision munitions and complex communications equipment. He said Russia had established control over "almost all" of what he casts as "Novorossiya" (New Russia), a Tsarist-era imperial term for a swathe of southern Ukraine which is now used by Russian nationalists. At times using Russian slang, Putin said Russia was not going to change course in Ukraine. Russia's future plans in Ukraine, he said, would be decided once the Ukrainian counteroffensive, which he said began on June 4, was over. Ukraine's offensive has not been successful in any area, Putin said, adding that Ukrainian human losses were 10 times greater than Russia's. Ukraine had lost over 160 of its tanks and 25-30% of the vehicles supplied from abroad, he said, while Russia had lost 54 tanks. Ukraine said it has made gains in the counteroffensive. Reuters could not independently verify statements from either side about the battlefield. Putin further said Ukraine had deliberately hit the Kakhovka hydro-electric dam on June 6 with U.S.-supplied HIMARS rockets, a step he said had also hindered Kyiv's counteroffensive efforts. Ukraine says Russia blew up the dam, which Russian forces captured early in the war. Putin said Russia needed to fight enemy agents and improve its defences against attacks deep inside its own territory, but that there was no need to follow Ukraine's example and declare martial law. "There is no reason to introduce some kind of special regime or martial law in the country. There is no need for such a thing today." I suspect Putin's "taking Kyiv" is another vieled nuclear threat. I agree and think that's the only way to read it. His use of the the previously banned word "war" along with the taking Kyiv comment and stating he sees no need for another mobilization leaves little else to consider. You don't need more manpower to deal with Kyiv via nuclear WAR. From this it sounds like "We could go back if we wanted to, and I'm the decider". (Not to unduly denigrate 43 with the comparison)
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Posted: 6/13/2023 4:07:27 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: Every morning on the bus to school I'd pass the Kaserne in Germany with rows of M60's lined up turrets pointing outward, as I looked up. A strange sight for so many years - and even stranger since it's gone. |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 4:09:34 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lightning_P38: For me it was Cobras and later Apaches. Those things looked sinister. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lightning_P38: Originally Posted By Zhukov: Every morning on the bus to school I'd pass the Kaserne in Germany with rows of M60's lined up turrets pointing outward, as I looked up. A strange sight for so many years - and even stranger since it's gone. Same here, mostly Cobras and C-130's at low altitude. |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 4:12:34 PM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 6/13/2023 4:15:45 PM EDT
[#22]
The most modern Russian tank T90M "Proryv", worth about $4 million, was destroyed in Bakhmut. 
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Posted: 6/13/2023 4:17:36 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fyhgu2rWwAAUM2_?format=jpg&name=large Yep, I'm expecting a Ukrainian offensive further north in the Donbas in the coming weeks. I could be wrong, but it fits with what Ukraine has done in the past, and according to some sources I've read, the Donbas (at least in the areas that weren't occupied in 2014) is actually less fortified than the south. I'm honestly a bit more optimistic about a serious breakthrough there than in the south. |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 4:18:19 PM EDT
[#24]
7 min ago.
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Posted: 6/13/2023 4:20:12 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1st-Armored-Division: DING!.. DING!.. We have a winner- Hold on, I need to go see if I still fit in my BDUs. |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 4:21:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RockNwood]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Same here, mostly Cobras and C-130's at low altitude. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By Lightning_P38: Originally Posted By Zhukov: Every morning on the bus to school I'd pass the Kaserne in Germany with rows of M60's lined up turrets pointing outward, as I looked up. A strange sight for so many years - and even stranger since it's gone. Same here, mostly Cobras and C-130's at low altitude. Watching Delta Darts over Puget Sound pounding the sound barrier. Those bastards still need intercepting!  
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Posted: 6/13/2023 4:23:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: m24shooter]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By weptek911: When I was a young boy I’d drive out to a lake with my folks and I was always thrilled if I could spot a new M60 going through its paces at the Chrysler proving grounds. It was rare and exiting for me to spot them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By weptek911: Originally Posted By Zhukov: Every morning on the bus to school I'd pass the Kaserne in Germany with rows of M60's lined up turrets pointing outward, as I looked up. A strange sight for so many years - and even stranger since it's gone. When I was a young boy I’d drive out to a lake with my folks and I was always thrilled if I could spot a new M60 going through its paces at the Chrysler proving grounds. It was rare and exiting for me to spot them. When I was a cadet we had an NG tank battalion that was close and they used M60A3s (49AD was M60A3 TTS at that time, still had M113s, but M1s and Brads were on the near horizon in the late 80s/early 90s). It was awesome to be able to go to their drills, and being close to Ft Hood we got to see those along with M1A1s. The Abrams were nice, but those A3 TTS were just killer, at least to me. Personally I am going to enjoy seeing those come out of storage and hopefully be put to good use. Really interesting to see these Cold War tanks line up after all these years. Might get to see if MBT and Team Yankee got their stats and charts right after all. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/13/2023 4:25:46 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO:
Wait. Did he really say they are at a 10:1 kill ratio? Putin is feeding lies or are fed lies. |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 4:38:39 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: Watching Delta Darts over Puget Sound pounding the sound barrier. Those bastards still need intercepting! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/494438/IMG_1427-2850362.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By Lightning_P38: Originally Posted By Zhukov: Every morning on the bus to school I'd pass the Kaserne in Germany with rows of M60's lined up turrets pointing outward, as I looked up. A strange sight for so many years - and even stranger since it's gone. Same here, mostly Cobras and C-130's at low altitude. Watching Delta Darts over Puget Sound pounding the sound barrier. Those bastards still need intercepting! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/494438/IMG_1427-2850362.jpg During my school years A-10's would make low runs over Weir prairie on the south end of Ft Lewis and swing out over my house. Cobras did a better job of staying over Ft Lewis but I could watch them flying around. |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 4:46:45 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: 7 min ago.
I hate WarGonzo. |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 4:51:20 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Auto5guy: During my school years A-10's would make low runs over Weir prairie on the south end of Ft Lewis and swing out over my house. Cobras did a better job of staying over Ft Lewis but I could watch them flying around. We would go to the beach at Panama City on the weekends, close enough to see the fighters taking off, that really impressed elementary school me. Helicopters were old hat, but those fighters screaming their way into the air like a streak of lightning in reverse was something to behold. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 6/13/2023 4:57:02 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryAVDS 17902D? |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 4:58:15 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thehun06: Wait. Did he really say they are at a 10:1 kill ratio? Putin is feeding lies or are fed lies. Domestic consumption |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 5:02:35 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroEngineer: I hate WarGonzo. Then you'll enjoy the next few months as he's forced to concede the steady, relentless destruction of his once proud empire's ability to project force. |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 5:02:54 PM EDT
[#35]
He's also saying Ukraine dropped the dam with himars artillery fire.
I'm sure he has top men furiously typing various chat prompts into diffusion ai to wrangle up the proof. |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 5:04:30 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: Every morning on the bus to school I'd pass the Kaserne in Germany with rows of M60's lined up turrets pointing outward, as I looked up. A strange sight for so many years - and even stranger since it's gone. Yes indeed a sight to hear and see. I loved Germany! Great memories of fantastic times there. ..more M60a3's- 
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Posted: 6/13/2023 5:06:00 PM EDT
[#37]
 The term "strategic reserves" in this context doesn't make any sense, and sounds like a made up stuff. If it refers to the reserve forces of the Supreme High Command, then the Russian Airborne Forces are the only recognized "strategic reserves." Secondly, relying on words of Russian propagandists, known for their unreliability during this war, without any visual, audio, video or independent source confirmation does not qualify as Open-Source Intelligence (OSINT). When you use words "OSINT" in your profile, additional confirmations from open sources are necessary. Without it, this looks more like a "LAMEINT" - Lazily Aggregated Minimum Effort INformation from Telegram.
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Posted: 6/13/2023 5:07:21 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroEngineer: I hate WarGonzo. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroEngineer: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: 7 min ago.
I hate WarGonzo. If HE said it failed then the Russians likely were slaughtered like sheep. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 6/13/2023 5:08:58 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brahm: Hold on, I need to go see if I still fit in my BDUs. I was an M60A1/A3 mechanic back in the day. As soon as I saw the fire extinguisher bottles on the left side, I said " that's an M60". Anyone who has ever discharged those bottles while changing them can never forget the experience. |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 5:09:45 PM EDT
[#40]
  A new armored personnel carrier has appeared in the Russian Federation. The mobilization version of the Boomerang, while the transportation of a single copy of this Arzamas development was noticed
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Posted: 6/13/2023 5:12:05 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fyh_IOLWIAIWs1B?format=jpg&name=small The term "strategic reserves" in this context doesn't make any sense, and sounds like a made up stuff. If it refers to the reserve forces of the Supreme High Command, then the Russian Airborne Forces are the only recognized "strategic reserves." Secondly, relying on words of Russian propagandists, known for their unreliability during this war, without any visual, audio, video or independent source confirmation does not qualify as Open-Source Intelligence (OSINT). When you use words "OSINT" in your profile, additional confirmations from open sources are necessary. Without it, this looks more like a "LAMEINT" - Lazily Aggregated Minimum Effort INformation from Telegram.
As has been said multiple times recently in this thread, it really sounds like Hitler's paper divisions. |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 5:14:32 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: With Russia shipping drones from Iran to the Caspian Sea ports, Ukraine out to get that new Frigate that Turkey just built them and go interdicting. That would be nice but the Caspian Sea is landlocked |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 5:19:51 PM EDT
[#43]
Taiwan tangent.
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Posted: 6/13/2023 5:29:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Freiheit8472]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1st-Armored-Division: Yes indeed a sight to hear and see. I loved Germany! Great memories of fantastic times there. ..more M60a3's- https://i.imgur.com/UFHK7fu.png Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1st-Armored-Division: Originally Posted By Zhukov: Every morning on the bus to school I'd pass the Kaserne in Germany with rows of M60's lined up turrets pointing outward, as I looked up. A strange sight for so many years - and even stranger since it's gone. Yes indeed a sight to hear and see. I loved Germany! Great memories of fantastic times there. ..more M60a3's- https://i.imgur.com/UFHK7fu.png They chopped one of these up at Aberdeen proving ground last year. I think some brass thought it was an eye sore.  I tried to get a link for my track link collection and they were like noo we can’t… contract blah blah
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MN, USA
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Posted: 6/13/2023 5:33:35 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyQUOqHWwAEqzmx?format=jpg&name=medium
Even the ukranians are smart enough to realize they would use an mcx.over a SPEAR |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 6/13/2023 5:34:13 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brahm: Hold on, I need to go see if I still fit in my BDUs. 'meme' DO IT ! 'meme' |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 5:35:04 PM EDT
[#47]
I wish we had a few hundred of these upgraded M60s to send Ukraine....
 These use the 120mm gun from the Israeli Merkava tanks, has ERA fitted and also has additional armor modules on the turret. I can't remember exactly what engine/transmission these use, but I'm pretty sure a more powerful engine is fitted. From what I understand, with the add-on armor, these things actually offer pretty decent levels of protection, similar to more modern MBTs, but at a fraction of the cost. I'd damn sure prefer to go to war in one of those than a T-72. |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 5:46:32 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: I wish we had a few hundred of these upgraded M60s to send Ukraine.... https://p1-tt-ipv6.byteimg.com/origin/pgc-image/29d9aa81353e4abdb6a4f1c7eb6b071a.jpg These use the 120mm gun from the Israeli Merkava tanks, has ERA fitted and also has additional armor modules on the turret. I can't remember exactly what engine/transmission these use, but I'm pretty sure a more powerful engine is fitted. From what I understand, with the add-on armor, these things actually offer pretty decent levels of protection, similar to more modern MBTs, but at a fraction of the cost. I'd damn sure prefer to go to war in one of those than a T-72. Yes, I agree the modifications help. 
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Posted: 6/13/2023 5:50:42 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: From this it sounds like "We could go back if we wanted to, and I'm the decider". (Not to unduly denigrate 43 with the comparison)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyhexFcWwAEaebV?format=jpg&name=large
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Originally Posted By Auto5guy: Originally Posted By jungatheart: Originally Posted By bikedamon: Putin ponders: Should Russia try to take Kyiv again? https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-says-ukraines-losses-are-vast-so-far-failed-counteroffensive-2023-06-13/ MOSCOW, June 13 (Reuters) - President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday that any further mobilisation would depend on what Russia wanted to achieve in the war in Ukraine, adding that he faced a question only he could answer - should Russia try to take Kyiv again? More than 15 months since Putin sent troops into Ukraine, Russian and Ukrainian forces are still battling with artillery, tanks and drones along a 1,000-km (600-mile) front line, though well away from the capital Kyiv. Using the word "war" several times, Putin offered a barrage of warnings to the West, suggesting Russia may have to impose a "sanitary zone" in Ukraine to prevent it attacking Russia and saying Moscow was considering ditching the Black Sea grain deal. Russia, he said, had no need for nationwide martial law and would keep responding to breaches of its red lines. Many in the United States, Putin said, did not want World War Three, though Washington gave the impression it was unafraid of escalation. But his most puzzling remark was about Kyiv, which Russian forces tried - and failed - to capture just hours after Putin ordered troops into Ukraine on February 24 last year. "Should we return there or not? Why am I asking such a rhetorical question?" Putin told 18 Russian war correspondents and bloggers in the Kremlin. "Only I can answer this myself," Putin said. His comments on Kyiv - during several hours of answering questions - were shown on Russian state television. Russian troops were beaten back from Kyiv and eventually withdrew to a swathe of land in Ukraine's east and south which Putin has declared is now part of Russia. Ukraine says it will never rest until every Russian soldier is ejected from its land. Putin last September announced what he said was a "partial mobilisation" of 300,000 reservists, triggering an exodus of at least as many Russian men who sought to dodge the draft by leaving for republics of the former Soviet Union. Asked about another call-up by state TV war correspondent Alexander Sladkov, Putin said: "There is no such need today." MOBILISATION? Russia's paramount leader, though, was less than definitive on the topic, saying it depended on what Moscow wanted to achieve and pointing out that some public figures thought Russia needed 1 million or even 2 million additional men in uniform. "It depends on what we want," Putin said. Though Russia now controls about 18% of Ukraine's territory, the war has underscored the fault lines of the once mighty Russian armed forces and the vast human cost of fighting urban battles such as in Bakhmut, a small eastern city one twentieth the area of Kyiv. Putin said the conflict had shown Russia had a lack of high-precision munitions and complex communications equipment. He said Russia had established control over "almost all" of what he casts as "Novorossiya" (New Russia), a Tsarist-era imperial term for a swathe of southern Ukraine which is now used by Russian nationalists. At times using Russian slang, Putin said Russia was not going to change course in Ukraine. Russia's future plans in Ukraine, he said, would be decided once the Ukrainian counteroffensive, which he said began on June 4, was over. Ukraine's offensive has not been successful in any area, Putin said, adding that Ukrainian human losses were 10 times greater than Russia's. Ukraine had lost over 160 of its tanks and 25-30% of the vehicles supplied from abroad, he said, while Russia had lost 54 tanks. Ukraine said it has made gains in the counteroffensive. Reuters could not independently verify statements from either side about the battlefield. Putin further said Ukraine had deliberately hit the Kakhovka hydro-electric dam on June 6 with U.S.-supplied HIMARS rockets, a step he said had also hindered Kyiv's counteroffensive efforts. Ukraine says Russia blew up the dam, which Russian forces captured early in the war. Putin said Russia needed to fight enemy agents and improve its defences against attacks deep inside its own territory, but that there was no need to follow Ukraine's example and declare martial law. "There is no reason to introduce some kind of special regime or martial law in the country. There is no need for such a thing today." I suspect Putin's "taking Kyiv" is another vieled nuclear threat. I agree and think that's the only way to read it. His use of the the previously banned word "war" along with the taking Kyiv comment and stating he sees no need for another mobilization leaves little else to consider. You don't need more manpower to deal with Kyiv via nuclear WAR. From this it sounds like "We could go back if we wanted to, and I'm the decider". (Not to unduly denigrate 43 with the comparison)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyhexFcWwAEaebV?format=jpg&name=large
Guess he should stay away from high floor windows |
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Posted: 6/13/2023 5:55:07 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sywagon: Having been a mod / admin elsewhere, I would bet that he isn't willing to provide a mea culpa and he got personal with the mods without offering an apology. The informal posted warning he got for his comments in this thread regarding moderation of his posts in the other was going that direction for sure. Mods are volunteers providing an important service and not to be called out like that. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sywagon: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By blueballs: Originally Posted By fadedsun: Free jack67 Free jack67 We need less trash like Oswald and more jack67s Why isn't jack67's ban expired yet? Mods here can't ban people, only site staff (and higher) can do that. The expiration of Jack's ban is between him and the site staff (osprey21) that banned him. |
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