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Posted: 8/16/2023 9:41:01 AM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 8/16/2023 9:46:42 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Birddog15: That would be sweet, but we need to be careful how many sticks we poke the bear with. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Birddog15: Originally Posted By fadedsun: Originally Posted By Birddog15: Giving up land for entrance into NATO is a pragmatic idea. We may not like it, but if Ukraine eventually chooses that path, I'd understand. For those who say that this will just delay Russia's next attack; Russia has shown no inclination to go to war with NATO. If they do decide to attack NATO down the road at some point, then all of this worry over Ukraine and its territory will be a moot point. The world will have much bigger worries. Whether Russia loses to Ukraine next year and goes back home with no Ukrainian territory, or goes home with a little Ukrainian territory, really doesn't make much difference in the long run, as far as long term security goes for Ukraine. Either way, Ukraine is ending up in NATO and Russia will be very unlikely to attack it again. Obviously, we all hope that Ukraine keeps every square inch of its territory and that every Russian that set foot in Ukraine ends up as dirt. But Ukraine is the one with more and more families visiting grave sites every day, so how this ends is their decision alone to make. That's why I say give up Crimea and Russia loses Donetsk and Luhansk. The defensive line in northern Crimea is going to be a tough nut to crack. It's a win for Ukraine and a major loss for Russia. BUT before that deal happens Ukraine needs to liberate Transnistria and send it back to Moldova. That would be the ultimate defeat for Russia. That's where you're wrong. Russia provoked this conflict. They own it, and ALL the consequences. Not only Moldova, but Japan should get the Kurils back. Faced with a devastating war in Ukraine, losing Transnistria and Kurils might be enough for even the siloviki to turn on Putin. We should keep poking until the Kremlin loses the ability to export unrest, war, and destruction. Sure, some people fear what happens if Russia collapses, is wracked by popular uprising and/or civil war. But in a way, having that happen would remove Russia's ability to generate trouble for the rest of the world. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 9:49:01 AM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 8/16/2023 9:50:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#4]
enough capacity to restore these losses in the Russian naval forces. All the details By: Ivanna Shepel Defense forces of Ukraine disabled five large amphibious ships of the Black Sea Fleet of Russia . As noted by the Navy, the occupiers do not have enough capacity to restore these losses in the Russian Navy. The spokesman of the Naval Forces Dmytro Pletenchuk said this on the FREEDOM broadcast. According to him, the role of the Russian fleet in the Black Sea can currently be observed to be weakening , and its future perspective is even more disappointing for the occupiers. "Let me remind you, they only drove six large amphibious ships to the six that were already there. But the result is known: five of them are no longer in service. This number may grow," Pletenchuk said. So, now the Russian Navy has seven border ships and six border boats in the Black Sea that monitor the security of the Crimean bridge. "As for the fleet itself, it's exactly the same - now, in principle, the possibility of replenishing it is blocked. Under the guise of exercises, they pumped it up as much as they could before a full-scale invasion," said the spokesman of the Navy. Pletenchuk also emphasized that theoretically there is a possibility of moving ships from the Baltic and Northern Fleets of the Russian Federation to the Black Sea, but it is difficult to implement in practice. In addition, Russia's ability to build ships at shipyards in the Black Sea region itself is also limited. Earlier it was reported that the representative of the Main Directorate of Intelligence of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine Andriy Yusov said that the Russian occupiers will not be able to restore the large amphibious assault ship "Olenegorsky Hornyak" in the near future. According to him, the recent events in the Black Sea eloquently showed the vulnerability of the Russian Navy . https://war.obozrevatel.com/ukr/gur-pro-udari-po-korablyah-rf-najblizhchim-chasom-mi-olenogirskogo-girnika-ne-pobachimo.htm It will be recalled that a naval drone attacked the Russian amphibious assault ship "Olenegorsky Gornyak" in Novorossiysk Bay in the Krasnodar Territory of the Russian Federation. The ship received a serious hole, fell overboard and can no longer perform its combat tasks. https://news.obozrevatel.com/ukr/russia/u-novorosijsku-progrimili-vibuhi-bulo-chutno-strilyaninu-zayavlyayut-pro-ataku-droniv-foto-i-video.htm |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 9:53:02 AM EDT
[#5]
There was one less Katsap balalaika! Border guards shot down an enemy kamikaze drone over Odesa at night. After the defeat, he fell into the water. Use of searchlights and lots of small arms fire.
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USA
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Posted: 8/16/2023 9:55:39 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jaehaerys: U.S. in Talks to Develop Ukraine's Grain Export Routes The US is apparently exploring a grain deal without Russia. If we get to the point that NATO is actually escorting and protecting ships in the Black Sea and Russia does nothing about it (that's the most likely outcome IMO), that's going to embolden NATO considerably. A criticism that's often thrown forward of the argument that Ukraine should cede territory and join NATO has been that NATO members won't actually nut up and take that risk. However, pointless destabilizing choices on the part of Russia such as fucking with the grain deal piss off NATO members, increases their willingness to get involved and fix things, and gets them used to doing things without Russia's permission. That's not exactly the precedent Russia wants to be creating and normalizing. They had a good thing going with the grain deal, and it was a mistake for them to end it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jaehaerys: U.S. in Talks to Develop Ukraine's Grain Export Routes Western planning for alternatives to the Black Sea Grain Initiative shows how the U.S., Ukraine and European countries are preparing for a scenario in which Russia doesn’t rejoin the deal in time to move Ukraine’s summer and fall harvests. ... The U.S. is considering all potential options, including military solutions, to protect ships headed to and from Ukraine’s Danube ports, the Washington official said, but declined to give specifics on those options or say what countries would be involved in them. The US is apparently exploring a grain deal without Russia. If we get to the point that NATO is actually escorting and protecting ships in the Black Sea and Russia does nothing about it (that's the most likely outcome IMO), that's going to embolden NATO considerably. A criticism that's often thrown forward of the argument that Ukraine should cede territory and join NATO has been that NATO members won't actually nut up and take that risk. However, pointless destabilizing choices on the part of Russia such as fucking with the grain deal piss off NATO members, increases their willingness to get involved and fix things, and gets them used to doing things without Russia's permission. That's not exactly the precedent Russia wants to be creating and normalizing. They had a good thing going with the grain deal, and it was a mistake for them to end it. Well ... how Russia is bullying all of the Black Sea is not really kosher and can be and should classified as actions against humanity when it comes to terrorizing grain and other civil sea routes ... in INTERNATIONAL WATERS ... |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 9:56:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DKUltra]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Birddog15: That would be sweet, but we need to be careful how many sticks we poke the bear with. It is spoken by cowards, and/or people trying to protect the bear. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 9:57:05 AM EDT
[#8]
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NE, USA
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Posted: 8/16/2023 9:58:21 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harlikwin: Like I said Obamas foreign policy was total shit. And honestly if Trump was re-elected, this wouldn't be happening IMO. I'm not so sure. Trump called Putin's move "genius" on day one. I could almost envision Trump saying to his "friend" Putin "you take the Eastern half and we'll take the rest". |
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USA
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Posted: 8/16/2023 9:58:49 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brok3n:
Yeah this is a drop in the bucket ... |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 10:06:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#11]
For reference, this is a Taiwanese made cruise missile.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hsiung_Feng_IIE Imagine them just making anti ship and land attack versions of these for the last 5 years alone, on top of the Harpoons and other systems we have given them and their other missile programs. Lots of clues..  According to the Taiwan Defense Review (TDR), the HF-2E land attack cruise missile is not a derivative of the Hsiung Feng 2 HF-2 anti-ship missile as it is often incorrectly reported. The use of the "HF-2E" designation is the primary cause of this confusion and was intentional misinformation done to divert attention away from the true nature of the project, which is that of a long range offensive cruise missile. The HF-2E is actually a completely different design and is said to serve a similar function in Taiwan's military as the US Navy's Tomahawk cruise missile.[2] Its launch weight is reported to be in the 3,300–3,500 lb (1,500–1,600 kg) range, including its solid rocket booster.[3] It is essentially a tactical land attack cruise missile designed for use against military target sets, particularly air-defense fire units and command-and-control facilities, and its relatively small warhead size and the rather limited number of missiles planned for procurement clearly suggest that this is not a "first strike" weapon.[4] The project was first announced in 2001. Following several test firings in 2004 and early 2005 at the Jiu Peng Missile Range in southeastern Taiwan, the baseline HF-2E (Block I) completed its operational evaluation (OPEVAL) in 2005, the missile flying a low-altitude circuit off Taiwan's southeastern coastline between Pingtung and Lanyu Island. An improved HF-2E missile was reportedly tested by CSIST at Jui Peng Missile Range on 2 February 2007.[3] In 2017 the missiles received an extensive upgrade to increase their effectiveness against naval targets.[5] A Taipei Times news report claimed that President Ma Ying Jeou ordered the production of 500 to 1000 HF-2E missiles in 2008.[7] It was approved and cleared to enter full volume/serial production in 2011.  It supposedly can deliver a 440 lb (200 kg) unitary warhead to a range of 600 km (370 mi).[9] The Associated Press has reported a range of 1,500 km.[5] |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 10:13:22 AM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 8/16/2023 10:14:35 AM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 8/16/2023 10:17:12 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: https://preview.redd.it/20ahx2s9ojhb1.jpg?width=5373&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8572cd81a32a973f38deaa4c346a5369d03e84cb Most famous destroyed russian tank, aka Cabbage Tank, is getting a serious artistic makeover from the family whose garden it occupies. The tank has been featured in many news outlets.  I wouldn't eat anything from this field. Yeah, lots of heavy metals. I think the kids from that property were selling parts from that tank for good prices last year. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 10:17:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#15]
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WI, USA
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Posted: 8/16/2023 10:23:38 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Those sea drones can be picked up by radar and thermal, range to detect them would depend on the sea state. They aren't as stealthy as they could be, but that would make them much more expensive to produce, and it's amazing they are able to get close to the Russian ships and bridge as is. The advantage of a sea container with a Harpoon is you only need to get about 120 nautical miles from the enemy ship. The Harpoon can do the rest. If the enemy ship is hit, then great! I think for the most part a single Harpoon would obliterate any of the Russian ships left in the Black Sea. I don't believe they have the capability to shoot down a sea skimming missile fired at night through a rain squall to minimize it's thermal signature for example. Nor could their ships guns handle a Harpoon that decides to suddenly climb and do a terminal dive onto the ship. Also, the drone ships could be modified to ride lower in the water with the Harpoon container on top. https://en.missilery.info/files/m/harpoon/harpoon_bl2.jpg They can skim the water closer than 15 meters lol. https://en.missilery.info/files/m/harpoon/traek.jpg https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CelebratedLongFlee-size_restricted.gif Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By Prime: The SBU used a new experimental Sea Baby sea drone to attack the Crimean Bridge in July 2023, CNN.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F3oIkiYW0AAovuD?format=jpg&name=small
Man, there is no reason the Ukrainians couldn't strap on a Harpoon missile in a container on that and hunt Russian warships. Then drive in and finish the job. It’s a great idea, but anything taller than those water drones can be picked up by surface radar and harpoons are large missles. I’m not sure they could make a craft to hold one and stay stealthy Those sea drones can be picked up by radar and thermal, range to detect them would depend on the sea state. They aren't as stealthy as they could be, but that would make them much more expensive to produce, and it's amazing they are able to get close to the Russian ships and bridge as is. The advantage of a sea container with a Harpoon is you only need to get about 120 nautical miles from the enemy ship. The Harpoon can do the rest. If the enemy ship is hit, then great! I think for the most part a single Harpoon would obliterate any of the Russian ships left in the Black Sea. I don't believe they have the capability to shoot down a sea skimming missile fired at night through a rain squall to minimize it's thermal signature for example. Nor could their ships guns handle a Harpoon that decides to suddenly climb and do a terminal dive onto the ship. Also, the drone ships could be modified to ride lower in the water with the Harpoon container on top. https://en.missilery.info/files/m/harpoon/harpoon_bl2.jpg They can skim the water closer than 15 meters lol. https://en.missilery.info/files/m/harpoon/traek.jpg https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CelebratedLongFlee-size_restricted.gif I have been saying from the beginning that Ukraine should use the German Q Ship idea. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 8/16/2023 10:23:59 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kpacman: I'm not so sure. Trump called Putin's move "genius" on day one. I could almost envision Trump saying to his "friend" Putin "you take the Eastern half and we'll take the rest". I literally listened to him say that live. Think of him what you will, he has his huge faults and huge upsides, but it was %100 more of a sarcastic knock on people who let it happen. He wasn't excited and cheerleading it but was talking about how it went down. I also say this as someone who thinks he's completely full of shit that he could make a deal and stop this in a day. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 10:36:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RockNwood]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brok3n:
That has to be the biggest “technical” yet! I assume being a naval gun there is a sizable inventory of 100mm shells for it too. Nice! |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 10:40:24 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brok3n:
This will stir the GD Pro-Russia hive Good! Republicans need to recapture for their brand that they are the party of strong defense and the definitive opponent to Russian aggression. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 10:41:42 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistorySeems to be a lot more T-80s getting smacked these days rather than the slew of T-72s is past months. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 10:42:38 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gatetraveller: I have been saying from the beginning that Ukraine should use the German Q Ship idea. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gatetraveller: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By Prime: The SBU used a new experimental Sea Baby sea drone to attack the Crimean Bridge in July 2023, CNN.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F3oIkiYW0AAovuD?format=jpg&name=small
Man, there is no reason the Ukrainians couldn't strap on a Harpoon missile in a container on that and hunt Russian warships. Then drive in and finish the job. It’s a great idea, but anything taller than those water drones can be picked up by surface radar and harpoons are large missles. I’m not sure they could make a craft to hold one and stay stealthy Those sea drones can be picked up by radar and thermal, range to detect them would depend on the sea state. They aren't as stealthy as they could be, but that would make them much more expensive to produce, and it's amazing they are able to get close to the Russian ships and bridge as is. The advantage of a sea container with a Harpoon is you only need to get about 120 nautical miles from the enemy ship. The Harpoon can do the rest. If the enemy ship is hit, then great! I think for the most part a single Harpoon would obliterate any of the Russian ships left in the Black Sea. I don't believe they have the capability to shoot down a sea skimming missile fired at night through a rain squall to minimize it's thermal signature for example. Nor could their ships guns handle a Harpoon that decides to suddenly climb and do a terminal dive onto the ship. Also, the drone ships could be modified to ride lower in the water with the Harpoon container on top. https://en.missilery.info/files/m/harpoon/harpoon_bl2.jpg They can skim the water closer than 15 meters lol. https://en.missilery.info/files/m/harpoon/traek.jpg https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CelebratedLongFlee-size_restricted.gif I have been saying from the beginning that Ukraine should use the German Q Ship idea. I remember, it certainly would be an interesting option to mount Harpoons or Neptune missiles on a container ship.  This is what we can ship them in.  This is what they can be launched from. 
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Posted: 8/16/2023 10:49:40 AM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 8/16/2023 10:51:14 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F3qNnaAW4AAM2ks?format=jpg&name=small |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 10:53:18 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F3qNnaAW4AAM2ks?format=jpg&name=small Makarov migraine? Fall from window? Too close to the front and got turned into HIMARS ragu? |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 10:53:37 AM EDT
[#25]
(AT & AP & magnetic & pressure fuses) in hot spots. Ukrainian drone watching Tokmak.   |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 10:54:17 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By The_Gooch: I wonder what his cause of death was? Makarov migraine? Fall from window? Too close to the front and got turned into HIMARS ragu? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By The_Gooch: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F3qNnaAW4AAM2ks?format=jpg&name=small Makarov migraine? Fall from window? Too close to the front and got turned into HIMARS ragu? lol you guys are fast. So far no reason given.
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Posted: 8/16/2023 10:56:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#27]
TRANSLATED MESSAGE] "So, citizens, you will be taken to the military commissariat for further registration." There was a video of the work of the St. Petersburg security forces. It is reported that similar actions will be held in all cities of Russia. If foreigners with Russian passports are identified, they will be sent to the military registration and enlistment office with a further prospect of being at the front in order to prove in practice that they deserve to have a Russian passport. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 11:00:29 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
TRANSLATED MESSAGE] "So, citizens, you will be taken to the military commissariat for further registration." There was a video of the work of the St. Petersburg security forces. It is reported that similar actions will be held in all cities of Russia. If foreigners with Russian passports are identified, they will be sent to the military registration and enlistment office with a further prospect of being at the front in order to prove in practice that they deserve to have a Russian passport. Lmao, that’s awesome. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 11:02:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#29]
Tungsten rain.
English translated video below:
Untranslated video below.
Geolocated, Russians got hit at their own shooting range. 
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Posted: 8/16/2023 11:03:25 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Lmao, that's awesome. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
TRANSLATED MESSAGE] "So, citizens, you will be taken to the military commissariat for further registration." There was a video of the work of the St. Petersburg security forces. It is reported that similar actions will be held in all cities of Russia. If foreigners with Russian passports are identified, they will be sent to the military registration and enlistment office with a further prospect of being at the front in order to prove in practice that they deserve to have a Russian passport. Lmao, that's awesome. Looks like he gets to have the Mobik experience soon. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 11:07:12 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Wow, sure enough. ETA- LOL The head of the Chinese Ministry of Defense will begin a visit to Belarus Li Shanfu will come to Minsk from Russia, where he took part in the XI Moscow Conference on International Security MINSK, August 16. /TASS/. A member of the Central Military Commission and the State Council, Chinese Defense Minister Colonel-General Li Shanfu will arrive on a three-day official visit to Belarus on Wednesday, where he will discuss topical issues of bilateral military cooperation with the country's leadership and the republic's defense department. It is also planned to visit the facilities of the Armed Forces of Belarus. Li Shanfu will come to Minsk from Russia, where the day before he took part in the XI Moscow Conference on International Security, held in the Patriot Park near Moscow. In his speech, the head of the Chinese defense department said that Beijing will continue to strengthen the mechanism of cooperation in the field of security with the member countries of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO), as well as with Belarus, which signed a memorandum of obligations with the SCO, which launched the procedure for its full accession to the organization. The trip of the Minister of Defense of China to Belarus will be the first visit of such a high level in the field of military cooperation over the past five years. Its goal is to strengthen and expand military and military-technical cooperation between Beijing and Minsk, for which China is one of the priorities of foreign policy. It is expected that during the meetings of representatives of the defense ministries of the two countries, areas of cooperation for the near future will be outlined, as well as an exchange of views on the current situation in the field of international and regional security. Li Shanfu met with his Belarusian counterpart Viktor Khrenin for the last time at the end of April at a meeting of the SCO Council of Defense Ministers held in New Delhi. Long-term cooperation Military cooperation between Belarus and China is carried out on the basis of an agreement between the ministries of defense of the two countries, concluded in May 2010. Before the start of the pandemic, the defense ministries organized exchanges of high-level and expert visits, training of representatives of the Armed Forces of Belarus and the People's Liberation Army of China in military educational institutions of the two countries and joint training. Also, Belarusian and Chinese servicemen participated in competitions within the framework of the International Army Games. With the onset of the COVID-19 epidemic, bilateral military cooperation activities were suspended. In mid-April of this year, at a meeting in Minsk between representatives of the Ministry of Defense of Belarus and the defense attaché at the Chinese Embassy, Senior Colonel Liu Zhe, the parties discussed the intensification of bilateral military cooperation after the end of the pandemic. At a solemn event held in Minsk at the end of July on the occasion of the 96th anniversary of the creation of the People's Liberation Army of China, Khrenin stressed that "cooperation with China in general, as well as its military component in particular, is the most important priority of the foreign policy" of Belarus. According to the Minister of Defense, "historically established relations of friendship between the states" are a reliable foundation for the development of Belarusian-Chinese cooperation. Speaking at the event, Attaché Liu Zhe expressed confidence that in the future, exchanges and practical cooperation between the armed forces of China and Belarus will bring even more results and make a great contribution to strengthening global and regional stability. From February 28 to March 2, President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko visited China, during which he and Chinese President Xi Jinping adopted a joint statement on the further development of comprehensive strategic partnership between the two countries in a new era. In it, in particular, the parties agreed to "strengthen cooperation in the defense, law enforcement and security spheres, deepen cooperation, including in the field of training military personnel, joint fight against transnational crime and terrorism, and conduct a joint preventive fight against color revolutions." Belarus and China will also jointly support the international system, the core of which is the UN. At the same time, Minsk and Beijing resolutely oppose "any manifestations of hegemony and the policy of brute force, including illegitimate unilateral sanctions and coercive measures," and intend to provide mutual support "in mitigating the negative consequences of the use of illegal unilateral coercive measures." https://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/18518173 China is ready to strengthen work in the field of security within the SCO The head of the Ministry of Defense of China announced his readiness to strengthen security work in the SCO MOSCOW, August 15 - RIA Novosti. China is ready to strengthen security work within the framework of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) and actively deepen defense cooperation with Iran and Belarus, Chinese Defense Minister Li Shanfu said on Tuesday. "China is ready, as before, to strengthen work in the field of security within the framework of the SCO, to actively deepen cooperation in the field of defense with the new SCO country - Iran and Belarus joining the organization," Li Shanfu said, speaking at the Moscow Security Conference. "The Chinese side is ready to conduct joint exercises and drills with all countries to find a wider exercise space, and strengthen international cooperation on arms control and non-proliferation," he said. https://ria.ru/20230815/kitay-1890153259.html Russian Satellite News Agency 23-8-15 04:17 From Weibo Web Edited [Chinese Defense Minister: Sino-Russian military relations are not aimed at third countries] #Chinese Defense Minister Li Shangfu# On August 8, at the 15th Moscow International Security Conference, it was said that China's military relations with Russia are not aimed at third countries. https://weibo.com/2181597154/NeHpNbhcz?refer_flag=1001030103_ Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Originally Posted By Brok3n:
Wow, sure enough. ETA- LOL The head of the Chinese Ministry of Defense will begin a visit to Belarus Li Shanfu will come to Minsk from Russia, where he took part in the XI Moscow Conference on International Security MINSK, August 16. /TASS/. A member of the Central Military Commission and the State Council, Chinese Defense Minister Colonel-General Li Shanfu will arrive on a three-day official visit to Belarus on Wednesday, where he will discuss topical issues of bilateral military cooperation with the country's leadership and the republic's defense department. It is also planned to visit the facilities of the Armed Forces of Belarus. Li Shanfu will come to Minsk from Russia, where the day before he took part in the XI Moscow Conference on International Security, held in the Patriot Park near Moscow. In his speech, the head of the Chinese defense department said that Beijing will continue to strengthen the mechanism of cooperation in the field of security with the member countries of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO), as well as with Belarus, which signed a memorandum of obligations with the SCO, which launched the procedure for its full accession to the organization. The trip of the Minister of Defense of China to Belarus will be the first visit of such a high level in the field of military cooperation over the past five years. Its goal is to strengthen and expand military and military-technical cooperation between Beijing and Minsk, for which China is one of the priorities of foreign policy. It is expected that during the meetings of representatives of the defense ministries of the two countries, areas of cooperation for the near future will be outlined, as well as an exchange of views on the current situation in the field of international and regional security. Li Shanfu met with his Belarusian counterpart Viktor Khrenin for the last time at the end of April at a meeting of the SCO Council of Defense Ministers held in New Delhi. Long-term cooperation Military cooperation between Belarus and China is carried out on the basis of an agreement between the ministries of defense of the two countries, concluded in May 2010. Before the start of the pandemic, the defense ministries organized exchanges of high-level and expert visits, training of representatives of the Armed Forces of Belarus and the People's Liberation Army of China in military educational institutions of the two countries and joint training. Also, Belarusian and Chinese servicemen participated in competitions within the framework of the International Army Games. With the onset of the COVID-19 epidemic, bilateral military cooperation activities were suspended. In mid-April of this year, at a meeting in Minsk between representatives of the Ministry of Defense of Belarus and the defense attaché at the Chinese Embassy, Senior Colonel Liu Zhe, the parties discussed the intensification of bilateral military cooperation after the end of the pandemic. At a solemn event held in Minsk at the end of July on the occasion of the 96th anniversary of the creation of the People's Liberation Army of China, Khrenin stressed that "cooperation with China in general, as well as its military component in particular, is the most important priority of the foreign policy" of Belarus. According to the Minister of Defense, "historically established relations of friendship between the states" are a reliable foundation for the development of Belarusian-Chinese cooperation. Speaking at the event, Attaché Liu Zhe expressed confidence that in the future, exchanges and practical cooperation between the armed forces of China and Belarus will bring even more results and make a great contribution to strengthening global and regional stability. From February 28 to March 2, President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko visited China, during which he and Chinese President Xi Jinping adopted a joint statement on the further development of comprehensive strategic partnership between the two countries in a new era. In it, in particular, the parties agreed to "strengthen cooperation in the defense, law enforcement and security spheres, deepen cooperation, including in the field of training military personnel, joint fight against transnational crime and terrorism, and conduct a joint preventive fight against color revolutions." Belarus and China will also jointly support the international system, the core of which is the UN. At the same time, Minsk and Beijing resolutely oppose "any manifestations of hegemony and the policy of brute force, including illegitimate unilateral sanctions and coercive measures," and intend to provide mutual support "in mitigating the negative consequences of the use of illegal unilateral coercive measures." https://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/18518173 China is ready to strengthen work in the field of security within the SCO The head of the Ministry of Defense of China announced his readiness to strengthen security work in the SCO MOSCOW, August 15 - RIA Novosti. China is ready to strengthen security work within the framework of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) and actively deepen defense cooperation with Iran and Belarus, Chinese Defense Minister Li Shanfu said on Tuesday. "China is ready, as before, to strengthen work in the field of security within the framework of the SCO, to actively deepen cooperation in the field of defense with the new SCO country - Iran and Belarus joining the organization," Li Shanfu said, speaking at the Moscow Security Conference. "The Chinese side is ready to conduct joint exercises and drills with all countries to find a wider exercise space, and strengthen international cooperation on arms control and non-proliferation," he said. https://ria.ru/20230815/kitay-1890153259.html Russian Satellite News Agency 23-8-15 04:17 From Weibo Web Edited [Chinese Defense Minister: Sino-Russian military relations are not aimed at third countries] #Chinese Defense Minister Li Shangfu# On August 8, at the 15th Moscow International Security Conference, it was said that China's military relations with Russia are not aimed at third countries. https://weibo.com/2181597154/NeHpNbhcz?refer_flag=1001030103_ Meanwhile the West pretends to believe China when it says they don’t provide military aid to Russia and thus don’t sanction China too. 😂😂😂 The West has to quickly get over its queasiness and stand up to multinational corps that drool at the thought of access to the population of China. China and Russia are enemies of free societies. Anyone that does business with them is an enemy of free societies. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 11:11:56 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Wow, sure enough. ETA- LOL The head of the Chinese Ministry of Defense will begin a visit to Belarus Li Shanfu will come to Minsk from Russia, where he took part in the XI Moscow Conference on International Security MINSK, August 16. /TASS/. A member of the Central Military Commission and the State Council, Chinese Defense Minister Colonel-General Li Shanfu will arrive on a three-day official visit to Belarus on Wednesday, where he will discuss topical issues of bilateral military cooperation with the country's leadership and the republic's defense department. It is also planned to visit the facilities of the Armed Forces of Belarus. Li Shanfu will come to Minsk from Russia, where the day before he took part in the XI Moscow Conference on International Security, held in the Patriot Park near Moscow. In his speech, the head of the Chinese defense department said that Beijing will continue to strengthen the mechanism of cooperation in the field of security with the member countries of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO), as well as with Belarus, which signed a memorandum of obligations with the SCO, which launched the procedure for its full accession to the organization. The trip of the Minister of Defense of China to Belarus will be the first visit of such a high level in the field of military cooperation over the past five years. Its goal is to strengthen and expand military and military-technical cooperation between Beijing and Minsk, for which China is one of the priorities of foreign policy. It is expected that during the meetings of representatives of the defense ministries of the two countries, areas of cooperation for the near future will be outlined, as well as an exchange of views on the current situation in the field of international and regional security. Li Shanfu met with his Belarusian counterpart Viktor Khrenin for the last time at the end of April at a meeting of the SCO Council of Defense Ministers held in New Delhi. Long-term cooperation Military cooperation between Belarus and China is carried out on the basis of an agreement between the ministries of defense of the two countries, concluded in May 2010. Before the start of the pandemic, the defense ministries organized exchanges of high-level and expert visits, training of representatives of the Armed Forces of Belarus and the People's Liberation Army of China in military educational institutions of the two countries and joint training. Also, Belarusian and Chinese servicemen participated in competitions within the framework of the International Army Games. With the onset of the COVID-19 epidemic, bilateral military cooperation activities were suspended. In mid-April of this year, at a meeting in Minsk between representatives of the Ministry of Defense of Belarus and the defense attaché at the Chinese Embassy, Senior Colonel Liu Zhe, the parties discussed the intensification of bilateral military cooperation after the end of the pandemic. At a solemn event held in Minsk at the end of July on the occasion of the 96th anniversary of the creation of the People's Liberation Army of China, Khrenin stressed that "cooperation with China in general, as well as its military component in particular, is the most important priority of the foreign policy" of Belarus. According to the Minister of Defense, "historically established relations of friendship between the states" are a reliable foundation for the development of Belarusian-Chinese cooperation. Speaking at the event, Attaché Liu Zhe expressed confidence that in the future, exchanges and practical cooperation between the armed forces of China and Belarus will bring even more results and make a great contribution to strengthening global and regional stability. From February 28 to March 2, President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko visited China, during which he and Chinese President Xi Jinping adopted a joint statement on the further development of comprehensive strategic partnership between the two countries in a new era. In it, in particular, the parties agreed to "strengthen cooperation in the defense, law enforcement and security spheres, deepen cooperation, including in the field of training military personnel, joint fight against transnational crime and terrorism, and conduct a joint preventive fight against color revolutions." Belarus and China will also jointly support the international system, the core of which is the UN. At the same time, Minsk and Beijing resolutely oppose "any manifestations of hegemony and the policy of brute force, including illegitimate unilateral sanctions and coercive measures," and intend to provide mutual support "in mitigating the negative consequences of the use of illegal unilateral coercive measures." https://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/18518173 China is ready to strengthen work in the field of security within the SCO The head of the Ministry of Defense of China announced his readiness to strengthen security work in the SCO MOSCOW, August 15 - RIA Novosti. China is ready to strengthen security work within the framework of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) and actively deepen defense cooperation with Iran and Belarus, Chinese Defense Minister Li Shanfu said on Tuesday. "China is ready, as before, to strengthen work in the field of security within the framework of the SCO, to actively deepen cooperation in the field of defense with the new SCO country - Iran and Belarus joining the organization," Li Shanfu said, speaking at the Moscow Security Conference. "The Chinese side is ready to conduct joint exercises and drills with all countries to find a wider exercise space, and strengthen international cooperation on arms control and non-proliferation," he said. https://ria.ru/20230815/kitay-1890153259.html Russian Satellite News Agency 23-8-15 04:17 From Weibo Web Edited [Chinese Defense Minister: Sino-Russian military relations are not aimed at third countries] #Chinese Defense Minister Li Shangfu# On August 8, at the 15th Moscow International Security Conference, it was said that China's military relations with Russia are not aimed at third countries. https://weibo.com/2181597154/NeHpNbhcz?refer_flag=1001030103_ Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Originally Posted By Brok3n:
Wow, sure enough. ETA- LOL The head of the Chinese Ministry of Defense will begin a visit to Belarus Li Shanfu will come to Minsk from Russia, where he took part in the XI Moscow Conference on International Security MINSK, August 16. /TASS/. A member of the Central Military Commission and the State Council, Chinese Defense Minister Colonel-General Li Shanfu will arrive on a three-day official visit to Belarus on Wednesday, where he will discuss topical issues of bilateral military cooperation with the country's leadership and the republic's defense department. It is also planned to visit the facilities of the Armed Forces of Belarus. Li Shanfu will come to Minsk from Russia, where the day before he took part in the XI Moscow Conference on International Security, held in the Patriot Park near Moscow. In his speech, the head of the Chinese defense department said that Beijing will continue to strengthen the mechanism of cooperation in the field of security with the member countries of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO), as well as with Belarus, which signed a memorandum of obligations with the SCO, which launched the procedure for its full accession to the organization. The trip of the Minister of Defense of China to Belarus will be the first visit of such a high level in the field of military cooperation over the past five years. Its goal is to strengthen and expand military and military-technical cooperation between Beijing and Minsk, for which China is one of the priorities of foreign policy. It is expected that during the meetings of representatives of the defense ministries of the two countries, areas of cooperation for the near future will be outlined, as well as an exchange of views on the current situation in the field of international and regional security. Li Shanfu met with his Belarusian counterpart Viktor Khrenin for the last time at the end of April at a meeting of the SCO Council of Defense Ministers held in New Delhi. Long-term cooperation Military cooperation between Belarus and China is carried out on the basis of an agreement between the ministries of defense of the two countries, concluded in May 2010. Before the start of the pandemic, the defense ministries organized exchanges of high-level and expert visits, training of representatives of the Armed Forces of Belarus and the People's Liberation Army of China in military educational institutions of the two countries and joint training. Also, Belarusian and Chinese servicemen participated in competitions within the framework of the International Army Games. With the onset of the COVID-19 epidemic, bilateral military cooperation activities were suspended. In mid-April of this year, at a meeting in Minsk between representatives of the Ministry of Defense of Belarus and the defense attaché at the Chinese Embassy, Senior Colonel Liu Zhe, the parties discussed the intensification of bilateral military cooperation after the end of the pandemic. At a solemn event held in Minsk at the end of July on the occasion of the 96th anniversary of the creation of the People's Liberation Army of China, Khrenin stressed that "cooperation with China in general, as well as its military component in particular, is the most important priority of the foreign policy" of Belarus. According to the Minister of Defense, "historically established relations of friendship between the states" are a reliable foundation for the development of Belarusian-Chinese cooperation. Speaking at the event, Attaché Liu Zhe expressed confidence that in the future, exchanges and practical cooperation between the armed forces of China and Belarus will bring even more results and make a great contribution to strengthening global and regional stability. From February 28 to March 2, President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko visited China, during which he and Chinese President Xi Jinping adopted a joint statement on the further development of comprehensive strategic partnership between the two countries in a new era. In it, in particular, the parties agreed to "strengthen cooperation in the defense, law enforcement and security spheres, deepen cooperation, including in the field of training military personnel, joint fight against transnational crime and terrorism, and conduct a joint preventive fight against color revolutions." Belarus and China will also jointly support the international system, the core of which is the UN. At the same time, Minsk and Beijing resolutely oppose "any manifestations of hegemony and the policy of brute force, including illegitimate unilateral sanctions and coercive measures," and intend to provide mutual support "in mitigating the negative consequences of the use of illegal unilateral coercive measures." https://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/18518173 China is ready to strengthen work in the field of security within the SCO The head of the Ministry of Defense of China announced his readiness to strengthen security work in the SCO MOSCOW, August 15 - RIA Novosti. China is ready to strengthen security work within the framework of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) and actively deepen defense cooperation with Iran and Belarus, Chinese Defense Minister Li Shanfu said on Tuesday. "China is ready, as before, to strengthen work in the field of security within the framework of the SCO, to actively deepen cooperation in the field of defense with the new SCO country - Iran and Belarus joining the organization," Li Shanfu said, speaking at the Moscow Security Conference. "The Chinese side is ready to conduct joint exercises and drills with all countries to find a wider exercise space, and strengthen international cooperation on arms control and non-proliferation," he said. https://ria.ru/20230815/kitay-1890153259.html Russian Satellite News Agency 23-8-15 04:17 From Weibo Web Edited [Chinese Defense Minister: Sino-Russian military relations are not aimed at third countries] #Chinese Defense Minister Li Shangfu# On August 8, at the 15th Moscow International Security Conference, it was said that China's military relations with Russia are not aimed at third countries. https://weibo.com/2181597154/NeHpNbhcz?refer_flag=1001030103_ Military alliance of China, Russia, Iran focused on “arms control and non-proliferation.” 
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Posted: 8/16/2023 11:14:32 AM EDT
[#33]
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Posted: 8/16/2023 11:15:41 AM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 8/16/2023 11:18:59 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CletusRoundbelly: It is nice to see Ukraine absolutely hammering the Russian's artillery so hard the last few months. They figured out that the key to advancing is hobbling the Russians ability to support their positions with artillery. The Russians have always been artillery heavy, and it plays a huge role in how they do things both on offense and defense. Ivan McKatsap: Artillery, fire mission grid XXXXXX Ivan McKatsap: Arillery, hello? Ivan McKatsap: Hello? Yeah I was noticing that UA is achieving about 20 artillery kills a day for the last month at least. It would be nice to know the geographic grouping of those if that is heavily degrading certain areas or dispersed along the entire line. My sense is they do not have the resources to do that everywhere so it most likely is focused in the 4-6 major assault areas. So that has to have a serious impact on the Russian defenses. Day after day losing 4-5 tubes in each attacked area. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/16/2023 11:19:49 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Before you injure yourself laughing, remember that any male under the age of 27 permanently residing in the US even if they aren't citizens, green card holders for example, must register with the Selective Service Office. And when you do become a US Citizen, you swear the Pledge of Allegiance that specifically states that you're willing to serve in the military and/or do defense-related work if needed. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 11:20:58 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kpacman: If Ukraine is successful in gaining all the territory North of Crimea, they can effectively lay in a medieval style siege of Crimea. Keep taking out the Kerch bridge, and hit any ships trying to supply the peninsula. Sit back and watch them wither. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kpacman: Originally Posted By fadedsun: That's why I say give up Crimea and Russia loses Donetsk and Luhansk. The defensive line in northern Crimea is going to be a tough nut to crack. It's a win for Ukraine and a major loss for Russia. BUT before that deal happens Ukraine needs to liberate Transnistria and send it back to Moldova. That would be the ultimate defeat for Russia. If Ukraine is successful in gaining all the territory North of Crimea, they can effectively lay in a medieval style siege of Crimea. Keep taking out the Kerch bridge, and hit any ships trying to supply the peninsula. Sit back and watch them wither. Yep. Just keep hammering with artillery, MLRS, drones. Starve and chip away. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 11:21:08 AM EDT
[#38]
 New Satellite Images of the Crimean Bridge Show Russia Building a Third Section to Help with Repairs |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 11:21:27 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Birddog15: That would be sweet, but we need to be careful how many sticks we poke the bear with. True, we want to avoid a special military operation and threats of nuclear annihilation directed towards everyone. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 11:22:28 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: Consider this: Without the help of the US, Ukraine would go down. I don't think that can be disputed. In the future, I think it will be more and more difficult to push funding through Congress to spend on Ukraine. Unlike the people in this thread, most Americans are in the dark about Russia's imperial ambitions. They only see the money being spent and not getting much in return (keep in mind: perception, not reality). As such, the pressure to stop funding is going to eventually stop us from supporting Ukraine. There's no telling when that will be exactly, but that day will come whether Ukraine is close to kicking the invaders back out or if they're still locked in a stalemate. Most of it isn't cash, it's cleaning out stocks of weapons which many in GD cannot seem to grasp. The "money" is being used to hire US workers to refill the stocks used. Many decent American jobs are coming from this, and largely ignored. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 11:22:52 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F3p8_T9XgAAtUiy?format=jpg&name=small Pin the defenders in place with cross river fire, then roll down the road. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 11:23:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By voyager3: Before you injure yourself laughing, remember that any male under the age of 27 permanently residing in the US even if they aren't citizens, green card holders for example, must register with the Selective Service Office. And when you do become a US Citizen, you swear the Pledge of Allegiance that specifically states that you're willing to serve in the military and/or do defense-related work if needed. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By voyager3: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Before you injure yourself laughing, remember that any male under the age of 27 permanently residing in the US even if they aren't citizens, green card holders for example, must register with the Selective Service Office. And when you do become a US Citizen, you swear the Pledge of Allegiance that specifically states that you're willing to serve in the military and/or do defense-related work if needed. Not laughing, but watching the consequences of some peoples bad decision making tree, and am amused at their decision. I serve the U.S. military in my own capacity now for over 20 years. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 11:25:37 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistorySo they are making the target bigger? Excellent! |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 11:27:33 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnka871: Wonder if he fell out a window or got the tea treatment Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnka871: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F3qNnaAW4AAM2ks?format=jpg&name=small Wonder if he fell out a window or got the tea treatment Good ol' heart attack is very possible. I imagine leading an unwinnable war is extremely bad for your blood pressure. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 11:28:55 AM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 8/16/2023 11:29:36 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By governmentman: Good ol' heart attack is very possible. I imagine leading an unwinnable war is extremely bad for your blood pressure. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By governmentman: Originally Posted By burnka871: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F3qNnaAW4AAM2ks?format=jpg&name=small Wonder if he fell out a window or got the tea treatment Good ol' heart attack is very possible. I imagine leading an unwinnable war is extremely bad for your blood pressure. Window cancer is always an alternate. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 11:29:49 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu:  Are you okay, Ben? Quoting your own posts? "I always speak to the wisest person present." Gandalf. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 11:33:20 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: They need some small patrol boats with loads of machine guns and cannon and have them moved further out in and up the harbor closer to the docks so they can engage the drones over a wider area. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By Prime: Video source is "Two Majors", Russian TG.
They need some small patrol boats with loads of machine guns and cannon and have them moved further out in and up the harbor closer to the docks so they can engage the drones over a wider area. I think the use of drones is going to dramatically drive up the production of 30mm and 35mm auto cannons and ammo. So far the popular focus is on 155mm, Patriot, ATACMS, Storm Shadow missiles. But those are relatively expensive for shooting down drones. Gun boats and gun trucks are needed by the hundreds or thousands for Shahed and Lancet drones. Even if driven back to original borders I believe Russia will continue to send Shaheds, Iskander and cruise missiles over. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 11:33:24 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vtmarine: I know “stuff is happening.” But it isn’t happening on anywhere near the scale that it should and heads that should be rolling over procurement fiasco after procurement fiasco remain attached. “It will take two years to double production” should not be anywhere close to an acceptable answer for any significant system, unless we have three years worth of it on hand. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vtmarine: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: You would have to go through this thread, but many of those companies are already on it. Recent requests that the Air Force wanted a stockpile of over 10,000 JASSM-ER's and the Navy is doubling production of LRASM etc. It just isn't eye catching news, but you can find it if you look. https://www.airandspaceforces.com/lockheed-martin-double-lrasm-production/ Your concerns about Patriot and other systems are equally addressed as well. Stuff is happening, the threat the Chinese pose is known, and things are gearing up with lessons learned from the Ukrainian conflict. I know “stuff is happening.” But it isn’t happening on anywhere near the scale that it should and heads that should be rolling over procurement fiasco after procurement fiasco remain attached. “It will take two years to double production” should not be anywhere close to an acceptable answer for any significant system, unless we have three years worth of it on hand. this is something I know a little about. Lets take LM for example. Its a private company. They can't just speed up the production line, Building have to be built equipment procured, people trained. These facilities cant just be put together over night. There's alot of things that are different about these facilities that aren't like building a new walmart or benny keef. Storage buildings and logistic trains set up. All that has to take place on a secure facility. That means all the construction workers have to be vetted and inspected every morning. Before they invest ungodly amounts of money. contracts have to be signed, checks written, plans drawed up, permits submitted and approved, contractors hired, materials and equipment ordered. Some of the equipment has to be specially made. Sometimes the contractors themselves have to do some hiring, because they can't just drop all the jobs they're working on and send 20 guys to work 6-7 days a week to a new jobsite. All thats before you can actually start producing munitions. The process is expediated, compared to other jobs, but there's alot of moving parts. And thats just on paper, in the real world you gotta contend with weather, supply shortages, broken equipment, labor shortages, labor disputes. It can get complicated fast. |
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Posted: 8/16/2023 11:34:14 AM EDT
[#50]
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