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Posted: 9/6/2024 7:10:40 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TxRabbitBane: If fraud is so widespread and common, why can’t anyone seem to provide any evidence that it affects any elections? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TxRabbitBane: Originally Posted By GutWrench: Originally Posted By FreefallRet: No we have been ensured by some members in this forum there was no election fraud. It was just an illusion created by Trump and the Q crowd. I’m not an election fraud denier like some. I think it’s rampant like a cancer. They even caught some people cheating. Put them in jail. But I don’t think they tied them to thousands of votes or anything. Not enough to over turn the election and start again. Trumps lawyers couldn’t even find enough to bring to the courts. That’s where is stink comes from. He grifted 250 something million bucks then did nothing. His lawyers have all been disbarred and or shamed into the shadows. In reality. It’s not what you know or think you know or what you read on Twitter. It’s what you can prove in court. If Catturd and imyourhuckleberry on Twitter have proof of election fraud they need to turn over the information to the authorities. But we all know they don’t. The just like clicks and views for dopamine drops. The Q dudes assured me this was going to be sorted out in 2018. Trump was going to actually kill, yeah you read it. Execute as in kill the democrats for the wrong they have done to King Trump. That was two weeks ago, six years ago. Trump and Q are frauds. Believing in either of them as the savior of this country or anything else is as delusional as a man pretending he has a menstrual cycle. lol It’s the same thing. If fraud is so widespread and common, why can’t anyone seem to provide any evidence that it affects any elections? #1 It's so easy to register ineligible people, and exceptionally easy for people in some places to commit fraud. The requirements for registration, and verification are a joke. So is actual ballot and election security. The result is virtually unlimited opportunity for fraud. #2 Most of the process is not well documented, so proving it after the fact is extremely difficult. #3 There is very little time and or desire to investigate fraud after an election. A lot of people will be happy with the result regardless if widespread fraud might have occurred or not. A lot of people are also afraid of what the truth might be. So in the end, no one is really doing the looking required to unveil any meaningful fraud. So we just keep doing the same thing. And it's a huge powder keg. Everyone should be able to easily agree that is exceptionally stupid. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/6/2024 7:11:35 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: I’d settle for people who can pass a basic civics test and have a job. That would be an improvement. |
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Posted: 9/6/2024 7:15:47 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By carbineone1964: I am so angry that Trump was made the nominee under my protest, that no I will not vote for him..You made the Trump bed, so live with it one way or the other.. Any Republican Candidate could have handily beat Biden or Harris.. I will vote the down ticket and local issues..But will skip casting a Presidential ballot.. Do not blame me, blame the voters who made him the Candidate. Thanks alot. I understand the sentiment, but please at least write someone in for President so someone who tabulates data can see it. |
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Posted: 9/6/2024 7:34:09 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stug3: His facade is weakening. You can only keep lies going for so long. The alzheimers aint helping either. Trump admits he lost in 2020, leading white nationalist Nick Fuentes to disavow him Former President Donald Trump's recent acknowledgment that he lost the 2020 election has rattled prominent far-right figures, with some saying they will lead a campaign to keep him from being elected in 2024. At least three times in recent weeks Trump, the 2024 Republican party nominee, has acknowledged that he lost in 2020 "by a whisker." "He beat us by a whisker. It was a terrible thing," Trump said of President Joe Biden during a 45 minute interview Aug. 4 with podcaster Lex Fridman. He used similar language at an Aug. 30 Moms for Liberty summit and an Aug. 23 press event at the Southern border. Despite frequently and falsely claiming that he actually won the election and making the issue a central point of his 2024 bid, Trump has occasionally over the last few years admitted that he lost. Trump lost the popular vote to Biden by 7 million votes and the Electoral College by 74 electoral votes. His effort to overturn the election culminated in Jan. 6, 2021 attack on the U.S. Capitol by Trump supporters hoping to stop the certification of his defeat. The reaction to Trump's most recent comments from some far-right activists and influencers has been unusually stark. White nationalist Nick Fuentes blasted Trump Sept. 4 for admitting that he lost the 2020 election, and said that he will work to get voters not to back Trump. "So, why did we do Stop the Steal? Why did did anyone go to Jan. 6? Why did any one go to jail? ... It would have been good to know that before 1,600 people got charged," Fuentes said on his podcast, referring to the criminal charges for those who invaded and ransacked the Capitol. "It would’ve been good to know that before (I) had all my money frozen, put on a no-fly list, banned from everything, lost all my bank and payment processing.” Fuentes, a podcaster and Holocaust denier who dined with Trump and the notorious rapper Ye at Mar-a-Lago property in Palm Beach, Fla., in 2022 went on to call it a "tremendous betrayal" and "callous indifference to the sacrifices that his supporters made on his behalf." In a podcast, far-right personality Candace Owens said the infighting a “MAGA Civil War” is spurred by anger that Trump's campaign has softened his policies and persona to boost his mainstream appeal. Trump has flailed back and forth on his position on abortion bans recently, drawing rebukes from anti-abortion rights activists. But Owens stressed that she will still support him. "I’m just not sure who is driving the MAGA bus anymore,” she said, stressing that her issue is with Trump's staff, not the former president. “You’re losing that support from the people that believed in you. … You need those people. That is your base. You can't suddenly change who your base is think that that is going to be a successful strategy here.” Looks like the N_Ts falling for another leftist media lie. "We lost by a whisker" if that even is a correct quote, is not equatable to "there was no fraud." At best it's an acknowledgement that the official results, whether legitimate or not, were very close. I actually clicked the link and watched 5 minutes of that interview with Friedman, and he doesn't say that in the segment that discusses the 2020 election. What he does say clearly, responding to a question about people concerned with the fraud claims from 2020 is "the fraud was on the other side..." And he continues to discuss voter registration issues, election security issues and so forth. There is an unequivocal statement that fraud did occur, and I didn't see anything stating there wasn't. But nice attempt at spreading the lies. Even if it were somehow proven that there was no fraud in 2020 (which is impossible), and Trump admitted to it, we should have secure elections to prevent such misconceptions in the future. One of the most amazing hypocrisies of the left is that they say this problem was a threat to Democracy, yet they refuse to do anything to secure elections so that the root cause of the problem never occurs again, regardless of the Donald. |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 9/6/2024 7:35:21 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stug3: His facade is weakening. You can only keep lies going for so long. The alzheimers aint helping either. Trump admits he lost in 2020, leading white nationalist Nick Fuentes to disavow him Former President Donald Trump's recent acknowledgment that he lost the 2020 election has rattled prominent far-right figures, with some saying they will lead a campaign to keep him from being elected in 2024. At least three times in recent weeks Trump, the 2024 Republican party nominee, has acknowledged that he lost in 2020 "by a whisker." "He beat us by a whisker. It was a terrible thing," Trump said of President Joe Biden during a 45 minute interview Aug. 4 with podcaster Lex Fridman. He used similar language at an Aug. 30 Moms for Liberty summit and an Aug. 23 press event at the Southern border. Despite frequently and falsely claiming that he actually won the election and making the issue a central point of his 2024 bid, Trump has occasionally over the last few years admitted that he lost. Trump lost the popular vote to Biden by 7 million votes and the Electoral College by 74 electoral votes. His effort to overturn the election culminated in Jan. 6, 2021 attack on the U.S. Capitol by Trump supporters hoping to stop the certification of his defeat. The reaction to Trump's most recent comments from some far-right activists and influencers has been unusually stark. White nationalist Nick Fuentes blasted Trump Sept. 4 for admitting that he lost the 2020 election, and said that he will work to get voters not to back Trump. "So, why did we do Stop the Steal? Why did did anyone go to Jan. 6? Why did any one go to jail? ... It would have been good to know that before 1,600 people got charged," Fuentes said on his podcast, referring to the criminal charges for those who invaded and ransacked the Capitol. "It would’ve been good to know that before (I) had all my money frozen, put on a no-fly list, banned from everything, lost all my bank and payment processing.” Fuentes, a podcaster and Holocaust denier who dined with Trump and the notorious rapper Ye at Mar-a-Lago property in Palm Beach, Fla., in 2022 went on to call it a "tremendous betrayal" and "callous indifference to the sacrifices that his supporters made on his behalf." In a podcast, far-right personality Candace Owens said the infighting a “MAGA Civil War” is spurred by anger that Trump's campaign has softened his policies and persona to boost his mainstream appeal. Trump has flailed back and forth on his position on abortion bans recently, drawing rebukes from anti-abortion rights activists. But Owens stressed that she will still support him. "I’m just not sure who is driving the MAGA bus anymore,” she said, stressing that her issue is with Trump's staff, not the former president. “You’re losing that support from the people that believed in you. … You need those people. That is your base. You can't suddenly change who your base is think that that is going to be a successful strategy here.” I’m sure he will be refunding all the Stop The Steal Donations. |
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Posted: 9/6/2024 7:41:54 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: With just a handful of exceptions, most of us will be voting against Kamala Harris. You can circle Trump’s name on the ballot and still recognize precisely who he is, and lament a binary choice between two amazingly terrible options. And this is the adult position to take. We have to deal with what we have, Wishing for something better is a fools errand at this point. It's either Harris or Trump. |
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Posted: 9/6/2024 7:45:55 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Liquid77: I’m sure he will be refunding all the Stop The Steal Donations. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Liquid77: Originally Posted By stug3: His facade is weakening. You can only keep lies going for so long. The alzheimers aint helping either. Trump admits he lost in 2020, leading white nationalist Nick Fuentes to disavow him Former President Donald Trump's recent acknowledgment that he lost the 2020 election has rattled prominent far-right figures, with some saying they will lead a campaign to keep him from being elected in 2024. At least three times in recent weeks Trump, the 2024 Republican party nominee, has acknowledged that he lost in 2020 "by a whisker." "He beat us by a whisker. It was a terrible thing," Trump said of President Joe Biden during a 45 minute interview Aug. 4 with podcaster Lex Fridman. He used similar language at an Aug. 30 Moms for Liberty summit and an Aug. 23 press event at the Southern border. Despite frequently and falsely claiming that he actually won the election and making the issue a central point of his 2024 bid, Trump has occasionally over the last few years admitted that he lost. Trump lost the popular vote to Biden by 7 million votes and the Electoral College by 74 electoral votes. His effort to overturn the election culminated in Jan. 6, 2021 attack on the U.S. Capitol by Trump supporters hoping to stop the certification of his defeat. The reaction to Trump's most recent comments from some far-right activists and influencers has been unusually stark. White nationalist Nick Fuentes blasted Trump Sept. 4 for admitting that he lost the 2020 election, and said that he will work to get voters not to back Trump. "So, why did we do Stop the Steal? Why did did anyone go to Jan. 6? Why did any one go to jail? ... It would have been good to know that before 1,600 people got charged," Fuentes said on his podcast, referring to the criminal charges for those who invaded and ransacked the Capitol. "It would’ve been good to know that before (I) had all my money frozen, put on a no-fly list, banned from everything, lost all my bank and payment processing.” Fuentes, a podcaster and Holocaust denier who dined with Trump and the notorious rapper Ye at Mar-a-Lago property in Palm Beach, Fla., in 2022 went on to call it a "tremendous betrayal" and "callous indifference to the sacrifices that his supporters made on his behalf." In a podcast, far-right personality Candace Owens said the infighting a “MAGA Civil War” is spurred by anger that Trump's campaign has softened his policies and persona to boost his mainstream appeal. Trump has flailed back and forth on his position on abortion bans recently, drawing rebukes from anti-abortion rights activists. But Owens stressed that she will still support him. "I’m just not sure who is driving the MAGA bus anymore,” she said, stressing that her issue is with Trump's staff, not the former president. “You’re losing that support from the people that believed in you. … You need those people. That is your base. You can't suddenly change who your base is think that that is going to be a successful strategy here.” I’m sure he will be refunding all the Stop The Steal Donations. If you actually watch the video Trump says the opposite of what is being claimed: "Fraud was on the other side, I think the election was a fraud" 16:25 to 16:28 "Many people thought that" "You have to be able to challenge an election" "There are many ways to solve these problems..." And he discusses many facets of issues with election security at some length, before changing the subject to the border. |
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Posted: 9/6/2024 7:46:46 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By carbineone1964: I am so angry that Trump was made the nominee under my protest, that no I will not vote for him..You made the Trump bed, so live with it one way or the other.. Any Republican Candidate could have handily beat Biden or Harris.. I will vote the down ticket and local issues..But will skip casting a Presidential ballot.. Do not blame me, blame the voters who made him the Candidate. Thanks alot. 
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Posted: 9/6/2024 8:02:18 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MADMAXXX: The democrats thank you for helping Harris vs Trump. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MADMAXXX: Originally Posted By carbineone1964: I am so angry that Trump was made the nominee under my protest, that no I will not vote for him..You made the Trump bed, so live with it one way or the other.. Any Republican Candidate could have handily beat Biden or Harris.. I will vote the down ticket and local issues..But will skip casting a Presidential ballot.. Do not blame me, blame the voters who made him the Candidate. Thanks alot. America thanks him for his courage. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/6/2024 8:29:05 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MADMAXXX: The democrats thank you for helping Harris vs Trump. And the leftists thank Trumplandia for nominating a man who lost to a pedo potato last time. |
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Posted: 9/6/2024 9:29:48 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MADMAXXX: The democrats thank you for helping Harris vs Trump. |
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Posted: 9/6/2024 9:37:56 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MADMAXXX: The democrats thank you for helping Harris vs Trump. People who live in Thailand don’t get to opine on… much of anything. |
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Posted: 9/6/2024 9:45:47 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: People who live in Thailand don't get to opine on much of anything. LOL 
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Posted: 9/6/2024 10:18:58 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: #1 It's so easy to register ineligible people, and exceptionally easy for people in some places to commit fraud. The requirements for registration, and verification are a joke. So is actual ballot and election security. The result is virtually unlimited opportunity for fraud. #2 Most of the process is not well documented, so proving it after the fact is extremely difficult. #3 There is very little time and or desire to investigate fraud after an election. A lot of people will be happy with the result regardless if widespread fraud might have occurred or not. A lot of people are also afraid of what the truth might be. So in the end, no one is really doing the looking required to unveil any meaningful fraud. So we just keep doing the same thing. And it's a huge powder keg. Everyone should be able to easily agree that is exceptionally stupid. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane: Originally Posted By GutWrench: Originally Posted By FreefallRet: No we have been ensured by some members in this forum there was no election fraud. It was just an illusion created by Trump and the Q crowd. I’m not an election fraud denier like some. I think it’s rampant like a cancer. They even caught some people cheating. Put them in jail. But I don’t think they tied them to thousands of votes or anything. Not enough to over turn the election and start again. Trumps lawyers couldn’t even find enough to bring to the courts. That’s where is stink comes from. He grifted 250 something million bucks then did nothing. His lawyers have all been disbarred and or shamed into the shadows. In reality. It’s not what you know or think you know or what you read on Twitter. It’s what you can prove in court. If Catturd and imyourhuckleberry on Twitter have proof of election fraud they need to turn over the information to the authorities. But we all know they don’t. The just like clicks and views for dopamine drops. The Q dudes assured me this was going to be sorted out in 2018. Trump was going to actually kill, yeah you read it. Execute as in kill the democrats for the wrong they have done to King Trump. That was two weeks ago, six years ago. Trump and Q are frauds. Believing in either of them as the savior of this country or anything else is as delusional as a man pretending he has a menstrual cycle. lol It’s the same thing. If fraud is so widespread and common, why can’t anyone seem to provide any evidence that it affects any elections? #1 It's so easy to register ineligible people, and exceptionally easy for people in some places to commit fraud. The requirements for registration, and verification are a joke. So is actual ballot and election security. The result is virtually unlimited opportunity for fraud. #2 Most of the process is not well documented, so proving it after the fact is extremely difficult. #3 There is very little time and or desire to investigate fraud after an election. A lot of people will be happy with the result regardless if widespread fraud might have occurred or not. A lot of people are also afraid of what the truth might be. So in the end, no one is really doing the looking required to unveil any meaningful fraud. So we just keep doing the same thing. And it's a huge powder keg. Everyone should be able to easily agree that is exceptionally stupid. But he is a stable genius that only hires the best people. How could they produce zero evidence? |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 8:08:32 AM EST
[#15]
It was over before it began. If Joe could have held in there until after the election he was going to beat Trump a second time. But he was so diminished the optics wouldn’t fit and Trump likely would have won.
The Q bros celebrated Joes mental decline thinking Harris would be seen as worse. But democrats have embraced her with open arms. The lady who couldn’t even win her own state and district in the 2020 primary is going to be our president because of the Trump cancer. The Republican Party is dead. Trump killed it… and the Trump fans love it. They think it was the answer lol |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 8:21:37 AM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TxRabbitBane: But he is a stable genius that only hires the best people. How could they produce zero evidence? There were hundreds of signed, sworn affidavits, from election poll workers that witnessed fraud and were never reviewed by the courts. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 8:50:25 AM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TxRabbitBane: But he is a stable genius that only hires the best people. How could they produce zero evidence? Questioning the lack of "Slap it on the Judges Desk "Evidence" of "Massive Voter Fraud"? Proof of the incredible genius of Joe Biden & the Democrats to mastermind & control a widespread "massive fraud" involving huge numbers of participants across numerous states (many controlled by Republicans) to "Steal" an election ... while not leaving evidence ... Or Trump (who was always less than 50% approval his entire term) could have been lying to try to deflect & explain away his embarrassing election loss to a candidate as terrible as Joe Biden. Bigger_Hammer 
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Posted: 9/7/2024 9:07:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: macros73]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MADMAXXX: All the evidence in the world is useless if the court refuses to look at it. There were hundreds of signed, sworn affidavits, from election poll workers that witnessed fraud and were never reviewed by the courts. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MADMAXXX: Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane: But he is a stable genius that only hires the best people. How could they produce zero evidence? There were hundreds of signed, sworn affidavits, from election poll workers that witnessed fraud and were never reviewed by the courts. Courts have looked at them. Morons making inaccurate observations and writing them down is not proof of fraud, and some were considered heresay by courts. "But judges say many of these documents are vague, unrelated to fraud or rooted in fundamental misunderstandings of how vote-counting works. Judges have thrown out lawsuits in Michigan and Georgia because their evidence — based largely on affidavits from Republican poll-watchers — was too thin." https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2020/11/24/trump-continues-to-share-debunked-voter-fraud-affidavit-that-mixes-up-michigan-and-minnesota/ The 234 pages of affidavits released by the Trump campaign—which they say show evidence of voter fraud—include complaints that Democrat counting volunteers wore Black Lives Matter clothing and were "verbally aggressive" and one claim that it was "odd" members of the military voted for Joe Biden, it has been reported. https://www.newsweek.com/michigan-election-affidavits-fraud-trump-1546698 Another moron: Trump Ally Confuses Michigan And Minnesota In Affidavit Claiming Voter Fraud Trump’s legal team, particularly Sidney Powell, had promoted the affidavit as showing major evidence of voter fraud. https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2020/11/20/trump-ally-confuses-michigan-and-minnesota-in-affidavit-claiming-voter-fraud/ The day after her ruling from the bench, Judge Stephens issued a written opinion slamming the Trump campaign’s case as based on “inadmissible hearsay within hearsay.” “The assertion that Connarn was informed by an unknown individual what ‘other hired poll workers at her table’ had been told is inadmissible hearsay within hearsay, and plaintiffs have provided no hearsay exception for either level of hearsay that would warrant consideration of the evidence,” Connarn wrote. https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/come-on-now-michigan-judge-scoffs-at-and-tosses-trump-campaign-lawsuit-backed-by-hearsay-evidence/ |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 9:16:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: Never_A_Wick]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MADMAXXX: All the evidence in the world is useless if the court refuses to look at it. There were hundreds of signed, sworn affidavits, from election poll workers that witnessed fraud and were never reviewed by the courts. What makes you believe they refused to look at them? Just because idiots saw something doesn't mean they actually saw it. A similar analogy would be the geniuses posting the "fraud graph" which has a perfectly logical explanation.. which is discarded because muh feels. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 9:25:33 AM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MADMAXXX: All the evidence in the world is useless if the court refuses to look at it. There were hundreds of signed, sworn affidavits, from election poll workers that witnessed fraud and were never reviewed by the courts. I watch those people on TV and I believe them. I believe that they saw things that were not on the up and up. There should have been criminal investigations. Things need to be done better. But I cannot fix Georgia or Michigan’s voter rules. I don’t live there. The people in those states vote for the legislators and other crooked assholes who wrote ambiguous laws and rules. The citizens of those states don’t care. They let it ride and keep voting for assholes. Until that is fixed. You are going to have fraud and it won’t matter how hard you vote or praise the orange man. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 9:37:17 AM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GutWrench: It was over before it began. If Joe could have held in there until after the election he was going to beat Trump a second time. But he was so diminished the optics wouldn’t fit and Trump likely would have won. The Q bros celebrated Joes mental decline thinking Harris would be seen as worse. But democrats have embraced her with open arms. The lady who couldn’t even win her own state and district in the 2020 primary is going to be our president because of the Trump cancer. The Republican Party is dead. Trump killed it… and the Trump fans love it. They think it was the answer lol  Attached File |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 10:06:14 AM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By macros73: Courts have looked at them. Morons making inaccurate observations and writing them down is not proof of fraud, and some were considered heresay by courts. "But judges say many of these documents are vague, unrelated to fraud or rooted in fundamental misunderstandings of how vote-counting works. Judges have thrown out lawsuits in Michigan and Georgia because their evidence — based largely on affidavits from Republican poll-watchers — was too thin." https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2020/11/24/trump-continues-to-share-debunked-voter-fraud-affidavit-that-mixes-up-michigan-and-minnesota/ The 234 pages of affidavits released by the Trump campaign—which they say show evidence of voter fraud—include complaints that Democrat counting volunteers wore Black Lives Matter clothing and were "verbally aggressive" and one claim that it was "odd" members of the military voted for Joe Biden, it has been reported. https://www.newsweek.com/michigan-election-affidavits-fraud-trump-1546698 Another moron: Trump Ally Confuses Michigan And Minnesota In Affidavit Claiming Voter Fraud Trump’s legal team, particularly Sidney Powell, had promoted the affidavit as showing major evidence of voter fraud. https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2020/11/20/trump-ally-confuses-michigan-and-minnesota-in-affidavit-claiming-voter-fraud/ The day after her ruling from the bench, Judge Stephens issued a written opinion slamming the Trump campaign’s case as based on “inadmissible hearsay within hearsay.” “The assertion that Connarn was informed by an unknown individual what ‘other hired poll workers at her table’ had been told is inadmissible hearsay within hearsay, and plaintiffs have provided no hearsay exception for either level of hearsay that would warrant consideration of the evidence,” Connarn wrote. https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/come-on-now-michigan-judge-scoffs-at-and-tosses-trump-campaign-lawsuit-backed-by-hearsay-evidence/ Well I am convinced! 
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Posted: 9/7/2024 10:25:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: macros73]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Liquid77: Well I am convinced! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Liquid77: Originally Posted By macros73: Courts have looked at them. Morons making inaccurate observations and writing them down is not proof of fraud, and some were considered heresay by courts. "But judges say many of these documents are vague, unrelated to fraud or rooted in fundamental misunderstandings of how vote-counting works. Judges have thrown out lawsuits in Michigan and Georgia because their evidence — based largely on affidavits from Republican poll-watchers — was too thin." https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2020/11/24/trump-continues-to-share-debunked-voter-fraud-affidavit-that-mixes-up-michigan-and-minnesota/ The 234 pages of affidavits released by the Trump campaign—which they say show evidence of voter fraud—include complaints that Democrat counting volunteers wore Black Lives Matter clothing and were "verbally aggressive" and one claim that it was "odd" members of the military voted for Joe Biden, it has been reported. https://www.newsweek.com/michigan-election-affidavits-fraud-trump-1546698 Another moron: Trump Ally Confuses Michigan And Minnesota In Affidavit Claiming Voter Fraud Trump’s legal team, particularly Sidney Powell, had promoted the affidavit as showing major evidence of voter fraud. https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2020/11/20/trump-ally-confuses-michigan-and-minnesota-in-affidavit-claiming-voter-fraud/ The day after her ruling from the bench, Judge Stephens issued a written opinion slamming the Trump campaign’s case as based on “inadmissible hearsay within hearsay.” “The assertion that Connarn was informed by an unknown individual what ‘other hired poll workers at her table’ had been told is inadmissible hearsay within hearsay, and plaintiffs have provided no hearsay exception for either level of hearsay that would warrant consideration of the evidence,” Connarn wrote. https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/come-on-now-michigan-judge-scoffs-at-and-tosses-trump-campaign-lawsuit-backed-by-hearsay-evidence/ Well I am convinced! Some will never be convinced. Facing up to the fact that 2020 wasn’t stolen would explode their entire grasp on reality, such as it is, and remove an excuse they desperately need to tell themselves to keep supporting a traitor for President. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 10:44:16 AM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MADMAXXX: All the evidence in the world is useless if the court refuses to look at it. There were hundreds of signed, sworn affidavits, from election poll workers that witnessed fraud and were never reviewed by the courts. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MADMAXXX: Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane: But he is a stable genius that only hires the best people. How could they produce zero evidence? There were hundreds of signed, sworn affidavits, from election poll workers that witnessed fraud and were never reviewed by the courts. No evidence, therefore conspiracy. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 11:33:27 AM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TxRabbitBane: No evidence, therefore conspiracy. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TxRabbitBane: Originally Posted By MADMAXXX: Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane: But he is a stable genius that only hires the best people. How could they produce zero evidence? There were hundreds of signed, sworn affidavits, from election poll workers that witnessed fraud and were never reviewed by the courts. No evidence, therefore conspiracy. Except multiple courts in multiple states have since ruled that they conducted the election illegally. And hundreds of thousands of ineligible voters have been revealed to have been registered across several states. Russian collusion is a known conspiracy, that severely impacted the first term. Hunter biden laptop lie is a proven conspiracy that many estimate would have effected the outcome of the election. Are any of those proven conspiracies evidence of conspiracy? Not to the N_Ts who have been proven, on this page, to just swallow any MSM lie about orange man bad, no matter how obvious and easily debunked it is. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 11:43:41 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TxRabbitBane: No evidence, therefore conspiracy. Everything is with them. 
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Posted: 9/7/2024 11:46:02 AM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Except multiple courts in multiple states have since ruled that they conducted the election illegally. And hundreds of thousands of ineligible voters have been revealed to have been registered across several states. Russian collusion is a known conspiracy, that severely impacted the first term. Hunter biden laptop lie is a proven conspiracy that many estimate would have effected the outcome of the election. Are any of those proven conspiracies evidence of conspiracy? Not to the N_Ts who have been proven, on this page, to just swallow any MSM lie about orange man bad, no matter how obvious and easily debunked it is. Everybody agrees the rule changes that allowed “vote-from-home” was a bunch of bullshit that helped the democrats. But that was the law at the time of the election. The problem is when we talk about a stolen election, you’ve got people who can discuss the reality of things. And then you’ve got the crazies convinced the Hugo Chavez dominion machines were changing votes on the secret cia server farm in Germany that the special forces raided. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 12:03:06 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: Everybody agrees the rule changes that allowed “vote-from-home” was a bunch of bullshit that helped the democrats. But that was the law at the time of the election. The problem is when we talk about a stolen election, you’ve got people who can discuss the reality of things. And then you’ve got the crazies convinced the Hugo Chavez dominion machines were changing votes on the secret cia server farm in Germany that the special forces raided. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: Originally Posted By Missilegeek: Except multiple courts in multiple states have since ruled that they conducted the election illegally. And hundreds of thousands of ineligible voters have been revealed to have been registered across several states. Russian collusion is a known conspiracy, that severely impacted the first term. Hunter biden laptop lie is a proven conspiracy that many estimate would have effected the outcome of the election. Are any of those proven conspiracies evidence of conspiracy? Not to the N_Ts who have been proven, on this page, to just swallow any MSM lie about orange man bad, no matter how obvious and easily debunked it is. Everybody agrees the rule changes that allowed “vote-from-home” was a bunch of bullshit that helped the democrats. But that was the law at the time of the election. The problem is when we talk about a stolen election, you’ve got people who can discuss the reality of things. And then you’ve got the crazies convinced the Hugo Chavez dominion machines were changing votes on the secret cia server farm in Germany that the special forces raided. And no one can really prove them wrong with an easy and verifiable record... Because our election process, records and security are a complete joke. It's pretty logical to question the automation that very few people know anything about. And it has a very shaky record, especially in States like GA. I don't follow it too closely, but it still seems there are cases with outcomes pending and continued questions about the security of Georgia's voting machines. The government is generally incompetent at everything. I don't see why any reasonable person would pretend that our elections are secure, when the government essentially admits that they aren't. Some States like Georgia can't even reliably hold an election and get people to case ballots and count them. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/voting-debacle-in-georgia-came-after-months-of-warnings-went-unaddressed/2020/06/10/1ab97ade-ab27-11ea-94d2-d7bc43b26bf9_story.html At this point, people waiving their hands around saying "no evidence" look like Baghdad Bob. They might as well be saying "Voter ID and election security are racist." |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 12:10:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: MADMAXXX]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: Everybody agrees the rule changes that allowed "vote-from-home" was a bunch of bullshit that helped the democrats. But that was the law at the time of the election. The problem is when we talk about a stolen election, you've got people who can discuss the reality of things. And then you've got the crazies convinced the Hugo Chavez dominion machines were changing votes on the secret cia server farm in Germany that the special forces raided. It was illegally made "the law" by many state's Governors or Election Boards because of covid. By the actual law, said changes to each states election rules must be made by that states legislature. Making illegal changes to election rules should have been cause to consider the validity of that states votes.  |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 12:11:49 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Except multiple courts in multiple states have since ruled that they conducted the election illegally. And hundreds of thousands of ineligible voters have been revealed to have been registered across several states. Russian collusion is a known conspiracy, that severely impacted the first term. Hunter biden laptop lie is a proven conspiracy that many estimate would have effected the outcome of the election. Are any of those proven conspiracies evidence of conspiracy? Not to the N_Ts who have been proven, on this page, to just swallow any MSM lie about orange man bad, no matter how obvious and easily debunked it is. Donald Trump became president after the Russia shit and Hunter lap top. Those were lies and “interference.” It was not voter fraud. Could it have influenced some people to vote a certain way. Got damn right. No doubt about it. But then so does having a bunch of retards running around the internet spamming he’s running a shadow govt run by a person or persons calling themselves Q and they are going to spring a trap in two weeks for four years without any action at all by his “secret army” or by the president Trump himself. The dude could have fired Barr and had someone come down on all the democrat lies and bullshit and coverups. But he chose not too. For whatever reason. Personally I think he was weak. I think the govt is so fucking evil that Trump knew better to even try. They would have killed him for real. Not a kid with a rifle. They would have done it professionally and for real. He’s not hero. He’s not going to do anything. He’s going to lose in November. Will be sentenced to prison soon after that. He will never be seen again other paparazzi shots of him hanging out at his golf club until his death. I’m not saying its okay what they did to him. But in America. You don’t drain the swamp. The swamp drains you. Trump is going to be flushed after this election. He’s going to prison after he loses and I don’t think we will see him again after that other than some pictures on the internet. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 12:17:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: macros73]
[#31]
In PA it was Republicans who passed a law which enabled voters to use mail in ballots with requiring cause, then got pissed when it worked against them. Now we’ve had years of lawsuits with wins and reversals going both ways. They’re still squabbling today over what to do if someone dates their ballot incorrectly but it’s otherwise valid and submitted on time.
Another example is the ballot box case in Wisconsin. People cried about it in 2020. It was ruled illegal in 2022. It was ruled legal again 2024. Do people expect the 2020 election results to have been overturned in 2022, and then turned back again in 2024? Voters in Wisconsin once again have the option to return absentee ballots via drop box, the Wisconsin Supreme Court has ruled. https://www.npr.org/2024/07/05/nx-s1-5030231/wisconsin-ballot-dropboxes-ruling The only consistency in the Wisconsin rulings is that the party it helped had a court majority at the time. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 12:26:01 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: The government is generally incompetent at everything. I see this sentiment posted a lot. If the government is so incompetent how is it they are able to pull off these incredibly complicated conspiracies without leaving enough traces to be caught. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 12:32:48 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cja11B2P: I see this sentiment posted a lot. If the government is so incompetent how is it they are able to pull off these incredibly complicated conspiracies without leaving enough traces to be caught. This is a valid question. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 12:33:14 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MADMAXXX: Vote from home. It was illegally made "the law" by many state's Governors or Election Boards because of covid. By the actual law, said changes to each states election rules must be made by that states legislature. Making illegal changes to election rules should have been cause to consider the validity of that states votes. And the process exists for the validity of electoral votes to be challenged. That authority rests with congress. Ironically, had the useful idiots on Jan 6 not thrown their mostly peaceful temper tantrum, congress may have actually more heavily considered exercising that authority. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 12:42:59 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cja11B2P: I see this sentiment posted a lot. If the government is so incompetent how is it they are able to pull off these incredibly complicated conspiracies without leaving enough traces to be caught. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cja11B2P: Originally Posted By Missilegeek: The government is generally incompetent at everything. I see this sentiment posted a lot. If the government is so incompetent how is it they are able to pull off these incredibly complicated conspiracies without leaving enough traces to be caught. The multiple conspiracies that have been uncovered, weren't all that complicated at all. Yet they took years to unveil them. Anyone with half a brain was extremely skeptical in November and December of 2020 about: 1. Theories of complex mass fraud conspiracies (Like some of Sydney Powell's). I'm sure we have people here who fell hook line and sinker for some very questionable accusations. 2. More telling were the immediate and repeated claims of "most secure election ever" amid a plethora of irregularities. I'm sure we have a number of people here who fell for this propaganda, and even reposted or repeated it, as soon as the day after the election. It would be a very interesting exercise to go back and cross reference the NTs posting here acting all indignant about J6; with the obvious lies about the election process and security the day after the election. We can never be sure, but most likely, the fraud problem is mostly not some vast and complicated conspiracy. It's a corrupt and incompetent system, with zero security that gives wide opportunity for individuals or small groups of individuals to commit fraud as they see fit. All it would take these days is a few individuals in a few key cities: Atlanta, Philadelphia, Detroit; to sway a national election. Conspiracy is just the word leftists use to slander anyone who questions the absurd voting systems with virtually no security and no verifiable records. The leftist MSM also likes to talk about "recounts" as if they are some measure of protection or assurance against fraud LOL. "See we recounted all the ballots again (including potentially fraudulent ballots) everything is all good here, we can count!" And the idiots eat that shit up. We have multiple examples earlier in this thread. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 12:46:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: MADMAXXX]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: And the process exists for the validity of electoral votes to be challenged. That authority rests with congress. Ironically, had the useful idiots on Jan 6 not thrown their mostly peaceful temper tantrum, congress may have actually more heavily considered exercising that authority. Many people believe that Pelosi planned to have Ray Epps and others undercover, at just the right moment, rile up the crowd and lead a charge into the Capitol building to force the Congress critters to flee and not be able to challenge the validity of the electoral votes. If that plan fell through then the police could "discover" the pipe bombs placed nearby and used that for an excuse to clear the chambers. Strange that Pelosi turned down President Trumps suggestion of having National Guard troops to increase capital defense. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 12:46:16 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: The multiple conspiracies that have been uncovered, weren't all that complicated at all. Yet they took years to unveil them. Anyone with half a brain was extremely skeptical in November and December of 2020 about: 1. Theories of complex mass fraud conspiracies (Like some of Sydney Powell's). I'm sure we have people here who fell hook line and sinker for some very questionable accusations. 2. More telling were the immediate and repeated claims of "most secure election ever" amid a plethora of irregularities. I'm sure we have a number of people here who fell for this propaganda, and even reposted or repeated it, as soon as the day after the election. It would be a very interesting exercise to go back and cross reference the NTs posting here acting all indignant about J6; with the obvious lies about the election process and security the day after the election. We can never be sure, but most likely, the fraud problem is mostly not some vast and complicated conspiracy. It's a corrupt and incompetent system, with zero security that gives wide opportunity for individuals or small groups of individuals to commit fraud as they see fit. All it would take these days is a few individuals in a few key cities: Atlanta, Philadelphia, Detroit; to sway a national election. Conspiracy is just the word leftists use to slander anyone who questions the absurd voting systems with virtually no security and no verifiable records. The leftist MSM also likes to talk about "recounts" as if they are some measure of protection or assurance against fraud LOL. "See we recounted all the ballots again (including potentially fraudulent ballots) everything is all good here, we can count!" And the idiots eat that shit up. We have multiple examples earlier in this thread. The only people I’ve ever seen post “most secure election ever” are Trumpers knocking down strawmen. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 12:47:47 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GutWrench: This is a valid question. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GutWrench: Originally Posted By Cja11B2P: I see this sentiment posted a lot. If the government is so incompetent how is it they are able to pull off these incredibly complicated conspiracies without leaving enough traces to be caught. This is a valid question. Not really. It applies to very few people. It is more of a passive aggressive attempt to slander the over 100 million Americans who believe there was meaningful fraud in 2020; the majority of which don't necessarily believe it was some vast or complicated conspiracy. It seems many people like me, just accept that we will likely never know. We have an insecure system, highly susceptible to fraud, and a corrupt government that refused to do any meaningful investigations. If the same situation existed in Africa, the Middle East, or Eastern Europe, all you NT's would declare that the people falling for and believing the government propaganda are fools. And yet here you are, essentially championing the government propaganda "most secure election in history." LOL |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 12:49:00 PM EST
[#39]
Trump people believe Mike Pence was supposed to shut all that down. Walk out on the capital steps and declare the election invalid and march us to revolution in the name of King Trump.
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Posted: 9/7/2024 12:51:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: Never_A_Wick]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: The only people I’ve ever seen post “most secure election ever” are Trumpers knocking down strawmen. Exactly. Literally nobody has said that, it’s just attributed to people by Trumpers here. Similar to “you said there was no fraud!” |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 12:55:06 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: #1 It's so easy to register ineligible people, and exceptionally easy for people in some places to commit fraud. The requirements for registration, and verification are a joke. So is actual ballot and election security. The result is virtually unlimited opportunity for fraud. #2 Most of the process is not well documented, so proving it after the fact is extremely difficult. #3 There is very little time and or desire to investigate fraud after an election. A lot of people will be happy with the result regardless if widespread fraud might have occurred or not. A lot of people are also afraid of what the truth might be. So in the end, no one is really doing the looking required to unveil any meaningful fraud. So we just keep doing the same thing. And it's a huge powder keg. Everyone should be able to easily agree that is exceptionally stupid. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane: Originally Posted By GutWrench: Originally Posted By FreefallRet: No we have been ensured by some members in this forum there was no election fraud. It was just an illusion created by Trump and the Q crowd. I'm not an election fraud denier like some. I think it's rampant like a cancer. They even caught some people cheating. Put them in jail. But I don't think they tied them to thousands of votes or anything. Not enough to over turn the election and start again. Trumps lawyers couldn't even find enough to bring to the courts. That's where is stink comes from. He grifted 250 something million bucks then did nothing. His lawyers have all been disbarred and or shamed into the shadows. In reality. It's not what you know or think you know or what you read on Twitter. It's what you can prove in court. If Catturd and imyourhuckleberry on Twitter have proof of election fraud they need to turn over the information to the authorities. But we all know they don't. The just like clicks and views for dopamine drops. The Q dudes assured me this was going to be sorted out in 2018. Trump was going to actually kill, yeah you read it. Execute as in kill the democrats for the wrong they have done to King Trump. That was two weeks ago, six years ago. Trump and Q are frauds. Believing in either of them as the savior of this country or anything else is as delusional as a man pretending he has a menstrual cycle. lol It's the same thing. If fraud is so widespread and common, why can't anyone seem to provide any evidence that it affects any elections? #1 It's so easy to register ineligible people, and exceptionally easy for people in some places to commit fraud. The requirements for registration, and verification are a joke. So is actual ballot and election security. The result is virtually unlimited opportunity for fraud. #2 Most of the process is not well documented, so proving it after the fact is extremely difficult. #3 There is very little time and or desire to investigate fraud after an election. A lot of people will be happy with the result regardless if widespread fraud might have occurred or not. A lot of people are also afraid of what the truth might be. So in the end, no one is really doing the looking required to unveil any meaningful fraud. So we just keep doing the same thing. And it's a huge powder keg. Everyone should be able to easily agree that is exceptionally stupid. Imagine admitting you can't prove something but believing it anyway. Sorta like religion. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 12:59:24 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cja11B2P: I see this sentiment posted a lot. If the government is so incompetent how is it they are able to pull off these incredibly complicated conspiracies without leaving enough traces to be caught. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cja11B2P: Originally Posted By Missilegeek: The government is generally incompetent at everything. I see this sentiment posted a lot. If the government is so incompetent how is it they are able to pull off these incredibly complicated conspiracies without leaving enough traces to be caught.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 1:03:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: Missilegeek]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: Exactly. Literally nobody has said that, it’s just attributed to people by Trumpers here. Similar to “you said there was no fraud!” Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: Originally Posted By Low_Country: The only people I’ve ever seen post “most secure election ever” are Trumpers knocking down strawmen. Exactly. Literally nobody has said that, it’s just attributed to people by Trumpers here. Similar to “you said there was no fraud!” Well you are going to have to have a word with one of your fellow NT comrades about that: Macros73 thread titled "US elections have never been more secure" posting MSM gov propaganda piece Not only is it on ARF, but more importantly, it's a constant stream of government propaganda starting the day after the election with a lot of questionable things reported. Edit this isn't some ancient thread, it's about a month old and still active lol. Are we in agreement that this is a thing yet, or do I need to go find 10 more examples? I'm guessing that they are there. Mostly from names VERY familiar in this thread. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 1:03:19 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Not really. It applies to very few people. It is more of a passive aggressive attempt to slander the over 100 million Americans who believe there was meaningful fraud in 2020; the majority of which don't necessarily believe it was some vast or complicated conspiracy. It seems many people like me, just accept that we will likely never know. We have an insecure system, highly susceptible to fraud, and a corrupt government that refused to do any meaningful investigations. If the same situation existed in Africa, the Middle East, or Eastern Europe, all you NT's would declare that the people falling for and believing the government propaganda are fools. And yet here you are, essentially championing the government propaganda "most secure election in history." LOL 100M people believing something doesn’t mean it is based in reality. People are stupid, gullible, and Donald Trump has spent his entire adult life taking advantage of them. How many of those people also believe Mike Pence had some sort of authority to de-certify the election, just because Trump said so. Spoiler alert - millions of them. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 1:11:04 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead: Imagine admitting you can't prove something but believing it anyway. Sorta like religion. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead: Originally Posted By Missilegeek: Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane: Originally Posted By GutWrench: Originally Posted By FreefallRet: No we have been ensured by some members in this forum there was no election fraud. It was just an illusion created by Trump and the Q crowd. I'm not an election fraud denier like some. I think it's rampant like a cancer. They even caught some people cheating. Put them in jail. But I don't think they tied them to thousands of votes or anything. Not enough to over turn the election and start again. Trumps lawyers couldn't even find enough to bring to the courts. That's where is stink comes from. He grifted 250 something million bucks then did nothing. His lawyers have all been disbarred and or shamed into the shadows. In reality. It's not what you know or think you know or what you read on Twitter. It's what you can prove in court. If Catturd and imyourhuckleberry on Twitter have proof of election fraud they need to turn over the information to the authorities. But we all know they don't. The just like clicks and views for dopamine drops. The Q dudes assured me this was going to be sorted out in 2018. Trump was going to actually kill, yeah you read it. Execute as in kill the democrats for the wrong they have done to King Trump. That was two weeks ago, six years ago. Trump and Q are frauds. Believing in either of them as the savior of this country or anything else is as delusional as a man pretending he has a menstrual cycle. lol It's the same thing. If fraud is so widespread and common, why can't anyone seem to provide any evidence that it affects any elections? #1 It's so easy to register ineligible people, and exceptionally easy for people in some places to commit fraud. The requirements for registration, and verification are a joke. So is actual ballot and election security. The result is virtually unlimited opportunity for fraud. #2 Most of the process is not well documented, so proving it after the fact is extremely difficult. #3 There is very little time and or desire to investigate fraud after an election. A lot of people will be happy with the result regardless if widespread fraud might have occurred or not. A lot of people are also afraid of what the truth might be. So in the end, no one is really doing the looking required to unveil any meaningful fraud. So we just keep doing the same thing. And it's a huge powder keg. Everyone should be able to easily agree that is exceptionally stupid. Imagine admitting you can't prove something but believing it anyway. Sorta like religion. The key difference between our mentality and view on this topic; is that my view assumes that government is both corrupt and incompetent. This was the view of the founding fathers and the underlying assumption behind our system of government. You, among others, with no proof or evidence, decide that you want to assume that the government, their workers and politicians involved are righteous, honest and competent. This despite a ton of indicators that they are not. Further, you want to afford the government, the same rights as individuals are supposed to receive against the government... The presumption of innocence. I don't recall reading any founding father arguing that government, accused by the people, should be presumed good or innocent or any of that. Rather it's the complete opposite. And despite this massive disagreement that permeates our entire society, it is the government and their lying propagandists who continue to deliberately oppose measures to prevent future occurrences. Why do you think that is? Because they are so honest? Or is voter ID racist? |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 1:14:41 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: The key difference between our mentality and view on this topic; is that my view assumes that government is both corrupt and incompetent. This was the view of the founding fathers and the underlying assumption behind our system of government. You, among others, with no proof or evidence, decide that you want to assume that the government, their workers and politicians involved are righteous, honest and competent. This despite a ton of indicators that they are not. Further, you want to afford the government, the same rights as individuals are supposed to receive against the government... The presumption of innocence. I don't recall reading any founding father arguing that government, accused by the people, should be presumed good or innocent or any of that. Rather it's the complete opposite. And despite this massive disagreement that permeates our entire society, it is the government and their lying propagandists who continue to deliberately oppose measures to prevent future occurrences. Why do you think that is? Because they are so honest? Or is voter ID racist? This is still just more strawman nonsense. Nobody is defending the virtue, integrity, or righteousness of government. It is simply that if you make a claim, the burden is on you to prove it. Trump claimed the election was stolen from him, yet he failed to prove it. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 1:17:03 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: 100M people believing something doesn’t mean it is based in reality. People are stupid, gullible, and Donald Trump has spent his entire adult life taking advantage of them. How many of those people also believe Mike Pence had some sort of authority to de-certify the election, just because Trump said so. Spoiler alert - millions of them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: Originally Posted By Missilegeek: Not really. It applies to very few people. It is more of a passive aggressive attempt to slander the over 100 million Americans who believe there was meaningful fraud in 2020; the majority of which don't necessarily believe it was some vast or complicated conspiracy. It seems many people like me, just accept that we will likely never know. We have an insecure system, highly susceptible to fraud, and a corrupt government that refused to do any meaningful investigations. If the same situation existed in Africa, the Middle East, or Eastern Europe, all you NT's would declare that the people falling for and believing the government propaganda are fools. And yet here you are, essentially championing the government propaganda "most secure election in history." LOL 100M people believing something doesn’t mean it is based in reality. People are stupid, gullible, and Donald Trump has spent his entire adult life taking advantage of them. How many of those people also believe Mike Pence had some sort of authority to de-certify the election, just because Trump said so. Spoiler alert - millions of them. Nothing says representation like "I don't agree with 1/3 of our people, they are all stupid, so they should just all shut the fuck up." This from the "Trump is a threat to the Constitution" (and or Democracy) crowd |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 1:20:11 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Nothing says representation like "I don't agree with 1/3 of our people, they are all stupid, so they should just all shut the fuck up." This from the "Trump is a threat to the Constitution" (and or Democracy) crowd I don’t know what to tell you. If you want to defend people easily influenced and either incapable or too lazy to read and understand the constitution and federal laws governing such things, knock yourself out. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 1:23:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: tree-hugger]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cja11B2P: I see this sentiment posted a lot. If the government is so incompetent how is it they are able to pull off these incredibly complicated conspiracies without leaving enough traces to be caught. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cja11B2P: Originally Posted By Missilegeek: The government is generally incompetent at everything. I see this sentiment posted a lot. If the government is so incompetent how is it they are able to pull off these incredibly complicated conspiracies without leaving enough traces to be caught. Use your imagination. I'll give you a direction: Hire incompetent lower-level people. You know, those who just do what they're told and will keep their mouth shut because they have a guaranteed income and pension if they keep their heads down. They also know that they have the entire weight of the government to back them up - as well as take them out. Now, you see if you can take it from there. Edit in bold |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 1:24:09 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: This is still just more strawman nonsense. Nobody is defending the virtue, integrity, or righteousness of government. It is simply that if you make a claim, the burden is on you to prove it. Trump claimed the election was stolen from him, yet he failed to prove it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Low_Country: Originally Posted By Missilegeek: The key difference between our mentality and view on this topic; is that my view assumes that government is both corrupt and incompetent. This was the view of the founding fathers and the underlying assumption behind our system of government. You, among others, with no proof or evidence, decide that you want to assume that the government, their workers and politicians involved are righteous, honest and competent. This despite a ton of indicators that they are not. Further, you want to afford the government, the same rights as individuals are supposed to receive against the government... The presumption of innocence. I don't recall reading any founding father arguing that government, accused by the people, should be presumed good or innocent or any of that. Rather it's the complete opposite. And despite this massive disagreement that permeates our entire society, it is the government and their lying propagandists who continue to deliberately oppose measures to prevent future occurrences. Why do you think that is? Because they are so honest? Or is voter ID racist? This is still just more strawman nonsense. Nobody is defending the virtue, integrity, or righteousness of government. It is simply that if you make a claim, the burden is on you to prove it. Trump claimed the election was stolen from him, yet he failed to prove it. The government and MSM are claiming that there was no meaningful fraud in the election, and have failed to prove it. They refuse to even reasonably investigate it, as easily 1/3 of the society would demand. You want those people to believe you that your election and government are legitimate, the burden of proof is on you. Being too incompetent to secure and document elections, is not a lack of proof. It is the most important evidence that is most decisive in the minds of the logical American with classic American values. Believing that the government is presumed competent and doesn't owe answers when questioned is some Soviet bullshit mentality that has absolutely no place in America. |
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