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Posted: 9/3/2022 9:42:12 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Obvious trap is obvious. People did the exact same thing in May of 1986 registering hundreds if not thousands of recievers as MGs, in some cases registering metal tubing. If the rules allow it following the rules to get a free stamp isn't doing anything illegal. If a braced firearm turns into a free sbr why not do it? |
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Posted: 9/3/2022 9:47:31 PM EDT
[#2]
...
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Posted: 9/3/2022 9:59:50 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryAre all the people that registered their Street Sweepers tax free suckers too? This isn't the first time ATF has done this. |
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Posted: 9/3/2022 10:01:12 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What about a 10.5 FSB/ KAC 300M rear w/ law folder, tail hook mod 1, and TA47 ACOG? You can clearly see the orange dorito reticle at full arm extension/ irons work at arms length as well. But this pig is over 8lbs with a sling, 20round mag, and WML... My -guesses- are the tailhook is 5 points - fail and probably not modifiable to pass. eta - law+th probably fails. remove the law and the th may pass. eta - max weight is 7.5 pounds w/o ammo so that may be a 4 point autofail too ACOG very probably gets defined as a rifle scope and 4 point autofail in itself even if it's somewhat usable at pistol eye relief. Rifle sights are probably a point but that can be accepted if the brace is no more than 2 We may need somebody to market sights that say 'pistol' on the package to save that point. Most current braces are going to fail but it shouldn't be terribly hard for manufacturers to combine features that pass. It'll probably even be possible to trade off the 3 points for personal preference, LoP vs shoulderability vs adjustment etc 3 points is just as legal as 0 It's kind of a reverse conspiracy theory but I wonder if the delay is to let manufactures get going on compliant designs. |
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Posted: 9/3/2022 10:01:56 PM EDT
[#5]
I guess a KUSA KP9 with folding brace is right out as well……..::
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Posted: 9/3/2022 10:05:37 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People did the exact same thing in May of 1986 registering hundreds if not thousands of recievers as MGs, in some cases registering metal tubing. If the rules allow it following the rules to get a free stamp isn't doing anything illegal. If a braced firearm turns into a free sbr why not do it? I'll admit I'm ignorant of how the 86 process went. If this is a similar situation you're probably right. |
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Posted: 9/3/2022 10:13:29 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll admit I'm ignorant of how the 86 process went. If this is a similar situation you're probably right. Stemple registered 2000 tube recievers as MGs by himself prior to the 86 cutoff. Not guns, metal tubes. People were blasting out form 1s and form 4s before the May cutoff. Then you have the amnesty in 1968 where for 30 days you could register a MG without paying the $200 tax. |
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Posted: 9/3/2022 10:27:49 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My -guesses- are the tailhook is 5 points - fail and probably not modifiable to pass. ACOG very probably gets defined as a rifle scope and 4 point autofail in itself even if it's somewhat usable at pistol eye relief. Rifle sights are probably a point but that can be accepted if the brace is no more than 2 We may need somebody to market sights that say 'pistol' on the package to save that point. Most current braces are going to fail but it shouldn't be terribly hard for manufacturers to combine features that pass. It'll probably even be possible to trade off the 3 points for personal preference, LoP vs shoulderability vs adjustment etc 3 points is just as legal as 0 It's kind of a reverse conspiracy theory but I wonder if the delay is to let manufactures get going on compliant designs. |
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Posted: 9/3/2022 10:49:50 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IIRC tailhooks were on the list as ~1pt. They don't collapse, so the ATF didn't hit them to hard. Add a folder and they were automatically over the line. lol, I was editing that in as you posted. I'd guess the tailhook at 3 for section 2 but that's still a pass anyway. the law is automatically 2 in section3 and probably adds more for LoP I haven't worked through it but I think most people will want to save points everywhere else so they can 'spend' 2 or 3 on LoP |
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Posted: 9/3/2022 10:50:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Stemple registered 2000 tube recievers as MGs by himself prior to the 86 cutoff. Not guns, metal tubes. People were blasting out form 1s and form 4s before the May cutoff. Then you have the amnesty in 1968 where for 30 days you could register a MG without paying the $200 tax. Huh. |
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Posted: 9/3/2022 10:54:59 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes the laws are are a clusterfuck. WY and TX have less restrictive laws than most states. The practical side of owning an AR pistol for many isn't the size, it's to benefit from the less restrictive laws on pistols vs rifles. Vehicle carry, loaded vs unloaded, concealment. Turning a pistol into an SBR negates those advantages for most. AR/AK Pistols Back on Menu as Law Makers Ask Biden to Put Them on NFA |
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Posted: 9/3/2022 10:59:57 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My -guesses- are the tailhook is 5 points - fail and probably not modifiable to pass. eta - law+th probably fails. remove the law and the th may pass. eta - max weight is 7.5 pounds w/o ammo so that may be a 4 point autofail too ACOG very probably gets defined as a rifle scope and 4 point autofail in itself even if it's somewhat usable at pistol eye relief. Rifle sights are probably a point but that can be accepted if the brace is no more than 2 We may need somebody to market sights that say 'pistol' on the package to save that point. Most current braces are going to fail but it shouldn't be terribly hard for manufacturers to combine features that pass. It'll probably even be possible to trade off the 3 points for personal preference, LoP vs shoulderability vs adjustment etc 3 points is just as legal as 0 It's kind of a reverse conspiracy theory but I wonder if the delay is to let manufactures get going on compliant designs. You may have missed the part where it says that even though a firearm may meet the criteria of being a pistol, fat can still determine it to be an SBR, and henceforth you may called a felon. Of course you'll get up to 10 years to make new buddies. |
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Posted: 9/3/2022 11:04:22 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess a KUSA KP9 with folding brace is right out as well……..:: Yeah, that looks like a perfect example of taking a stock and tweaking it slightly to call it a brace, They hate that :) That may not be one where you can expect the maker to come up with a compliant version either. |
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Posted: 9/3/2022 11:08:19 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You may have missed the part where it says that even though a firearm may meet the criteria of being a pistol, fat can still determine it to be an SBR, and henceforth you may called a felon. Of course you'll get up to 10 years to make new buddies. Quite the opposite, I read it. that's not exactly what it says. |
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Posted: 9/3/2022 11:24:04 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are all the people that registered their Street Sweepers tax free suckers too? This isn't the first time ATF has done this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Are all the people that registered their Street Sweepers tax free suckers too? This isn't the first time ATF has done this. I have an Amnesty-registered M2 GI carbine. |
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Posted: 9/3/2022 11:27:44 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have an Amnesty-registered M2 GI carbine. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Are all the people that registered their Street Sweepers tax free suckers too? This isn't the first time ATF has done this. I have an Amnesty-registered M2 GI carbine. Lucky man……. Those are fun as hell to shoot |
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Posted: 9/3/2022 11:29:20 PM EDT
[#17]
Look at all the poors willing to turn a right into a privilege for the rest of American history to save themselves $200!
Fuck you guys! We should rather be getting to work on makings inroads into making your state a sanctuary state, with sanctuary counties, and sanctuary cities than bargaining away our rights. If you're too poor or care so little about the God given right of self-defense then let someone else do the fighting and donate your $200 saved to Gun Owners of America or the Firearms Policy Coalition . FFS 
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Posted: 9/3/2022 11:29:24 PM EDT
[#18]
So, the ATF says if you will admint you commited a crime, they will give you Amnesty?
Eff that. THEY, the ATF, commited the Crime ! |
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Posted: 9/3/2022 11:43:08 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, the ATF says if you will admint you commited a crime, they will give you Amnesty? Eff that. THEY, the ATF, commited the Crime ! They are saying if you previously purchased a braced firearm in good faith with an ATF letter saying it was not a SBR that you will be able to register it tax free if the ATF determines them to be SBRs in the future. |
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Posted: 9/3/2022 11:44:56 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Look at all the poors willing to turn a right into a privilege for the rest of American history to save themselves $200! Fuck you guys! We should rather be getting to work on makings inroads into making your state a sanctuary state, with sanctuary counties, and sanctuary cities than bargaining away our rights. If you're too poor or care so little about the God given right of self-defense then let someone else do the fighting and donate your $200 saved to Gun Owners of America or the Firearms Policy Coalition . FFS You can do both. I donate more than $200 to gun rights groups every year but at the same time a free stamp doesn't make me "more registered" than I was previously. Unless you have not bought a new or used firearm from a dealer in 50 years you are a registered firearms owner on paper already. I'd rather take my free SBR to classes and ranges than hide a brace in a closet forever. |
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Posted: 9/3/2022 11:56:58 PM EDT
[#21]
I posted this a few pages back.
Tailhook Mod 1/1c should make it, even with a LAW folder. SBA Mini makes it, it is the example used in the proposal. SBA SOB is the same brace design as the SBA Mini, so that should pass as well. For AR pistols, it isn't that hard to pass. Once a zero point back-up/iron sights are created/confirmed, form 4999 will be a gigantic "meh", while we wait for the law suits to work their way through the courts. Quote HistoryQuoted: Here are some of mine that "should" pass. LOP on all of them are 11.2/11.3 inches. Everything except for the SOB are on Phase 5 buffer tubes. All make weight and length. The 10.5" .300blk just BARELY makes it as is. 10.5" barrel, Tailhook Mod 1c, Law Folder, Red dot, laser. 3 demerit points  Same 10.5" barrel, SBA Mini, Red dot, front and rear MBUS. 2 demerit points  7.5" barrel, Tailhook Mod 1c, Law Folder, Red dot, weapon light. 3 demerit points  9" barrel, SBA Mini, Red dot, 3x Magnifier, weapon light. 3 demerit points  10.5" barrel, SBA SOB, Red dot, 3x Magnifier, weapon light. 3 demerit points  The example that passes in the ATF proposal uses a SBA Mini on what looks like a Phase 5 tube. Smith and Wesson is now offering an AR pistol using an SB Mini brace as well. https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/mp15-pistol-0 They do still offer one using an SBA3. https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/mp15-pistol |
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Posted: 9/4/2022 12:02:41 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You may have missed the part where it says that even though a firearm may meet the criteria of being a pistol, fat can still determine it to be an SBR, and henceforth you may called a felon. Of course you'll get up to 10 years to make new buddies. i guess yo missed the part where they've repeatedly called us enemies of the State and domestic terrorist....it's no longer 1986 |
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Posted: 9/4/2022 12:03:31 AM EDT
[#23]
How many points is a Saint Edge PDW pistol?
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Posted: 9/4/2022 12:05:06 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I posted this a few pages back. Tailhook Mod 1/1c should make it, even with a LAW folder. SBA Mini makes it, it is the example used in the proposal. SBA SOB is the same brace design as the SBA Mini, so that should pass as well. For AR pistols, it isn't that hard to pass. Once a zero point back-up/iron sights are created/confirmed, form 4999 will be a gigantic "meh", while we wait for the law suits to work their way through the courts. In light of this found by another poster above I wonder how long any of this points BS will even be relevant. A significant portion of the House is begging Biden to be the despot we all saw him to be in that speech
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Posted: 9/4/2022 12:17:49 AM EDT
[#25]
Meh, it will give me a lot of fun YouTubing videos of my registered SBR with a pistol brace.
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Posted: 9/4/2022 12:22:25 AM EDT
[#26]
To make matter easy, Phase 5 is kind enough to give you the EXACT measurements of their Hex 2 pistol buffer tubes with an SBA Mini and a Tailhook Mod 1.
Hex 2 for SB Mini. LOP is 11.3 inches   Hex 2 for Tailhook Mod 1. LOP would be 9.9 inches   LAW Tactical was also kind enough to specifically state how much LOP a folder adds (1.3 inches).  Tailhook Mod 1 on a Phase 5 Tube with a LAW folder has a total LOP of 11.2 inches (9.9" + 1.3"). 11.3 inch LOP is worth 1 demerit point. Since these are standard length, smooth pistol tubes, there are no demerit points for that. A folder is worth 2 demerit points. SBA Mini passes in the the ATF proposal example. They actually messed up and gave it 2 demerit points instead of 1 for LOP because because the typed the LOP as 113/8 and said it is greater than 111/2 (instead of typing it as 11 3/8th vs 11 1/2, or 11.3" vs 11.5"). Tailhook Mod 1 1 demerit point for incorporating a should stock design feature (the QD slot). 1 demerit point for minimized rear surface lacking features to discourage shouldering. 1 demerit point for counter-balance design that folds creating rear contact surface. That would pass Section II and move to Section III Remember, you don't carry over demerit points from Section II to Section III. |
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Posted: 9/4/2022 12:23:11 AM EDT
[#27]
I wonder what the venn diagram of vaxxed GDers to Free Tax Stamp GDers is?
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Posted: 9/4/2022 12:42:08 AM EDT
[#28]
This is a really sad and shitty thread.
People arguing over this stupid points system and just happily accepting this bullshit. First braces couldn't be shouldered, then it was ok, more they're not ok at all. Fuck that shit and fuck the atf. And Biden can go fuck himself while we're at it. |
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Posted: 9/4/2022 1:02:29 AM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 9/4/2022 1:53:01 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People did the exact same thing in May of 1986 registering hundreds if not thousands of recievers as MGs, in some cases registering metal tubing. If the rules allow it following the rules to get a free stamp isn't doing anything illegal. If a braced firearm turns into a free sbr why not do it?  Hitler Survivor Condemns Gun Control - KEEP YOUR GUNS, BUY MORE GUNS |
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Posted: 9/4/2022 2:07:20 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are saying if you previously purchased a braced firearm in good faith with an ATF letter saying it was not a SBR that you will be able to register it tax free if the ATF determines them to be SBRs in the future. Until you file income taxes, where a forgiven tax is considered received income... |
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Posted: 9/4/2022 2:19:46 AM EDT
[#32]
I'm excited for all the non-serious hobbyist gun owners to not find out about this and get thrown in jail for it.
That'll show them! But seriously, there are going to be over a million people, nationwide, that have no idea that the law was changed by bureaucratic fiat. |
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Posted: 9/4/2022 2:25:15 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm excited for all the non-serious hobbyist gun owners to not find out about this and get thrown in jail for it. That'll show them! But seriously, there are going to be over a million people, nationwide, that have no idea that the law was changed by bureaucratic fiat. Same thing happened in the 90s with SKS rifles. ATF would hang out at the range and the people that did not know about 922r were given the option to hand over the gun, or be arrested. Then the ATF would publish how many illegal guns they took off the streets. |
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Posted: 9/4/2022 3:27:06 AM EDT
[#34]
Whats stopping you from registering the guns as Machine Guns? Since that trumps the SBR requirement.
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Posted: 9/4/2022 3:29:27 AM EDT
[#35]
Slurp, slurp
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Posted: 9/4/2022 3:37:26 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Whats stopping you from registering the guns as Machine Guns? Since that trumps the SBR requirement. The law ...... 18 U.S.C. 922(o) |
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Posted: 9/4/2022 4:55:11 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: i guess yo missed the part where they've repeatedly called us enemies of the State and domestic terrorist....it's no longer 1986 |
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Posted: 9/4/2022 6:00:04 AM EDT
[#38]
If they do amnesty, I'll F1 everything I own. The video posted last page by GoA said that it'd take an estimated 78 years to process the existing braced pistols. I'll add as many as I can to that number.
Cloward-Piven them bitches. |
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Posted: 9/4/2022 7:54:07 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People did the exact same thing in May of 1986 registering hundreds if not thousands of recievers as MGs, in some cases registering metal tubing. If the rules allow it following the rules to get a free stamp isn't doing anything illegal. If a braced firearm turns into a free sbr why not do it? Because some people don't like the idea of telling the federal government what and how many guns they own so one day they can come knocking for them. |
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Posted: 9/4/2022 8:11:34 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's to stop someone from doing the following as an end-around way to get a shitload of SBRs registered without tax?: 1. Buy 20 stripped AR-15 lowers. 2. Buy one single pistol brace. 3. Buy one 10.5" upper. 4. Buy one set of all other parts needed to make a functional AR-15 (fire control group, bolt carrier, etc) 5. Take a lower, attach the brace, insert the parts, attach the upper. 6. Take a picture of the "braced pistol" and submit to the ATF for amnesty. 7. Move brace, upper, etc, to the next lower, rinse and repeat 20x, avoid $4,000 in NFA tax. |
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Posted: 9/4/2022 8:22:59 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So even if this is disallowed, it might be delicious to submit all those Form 1's to be rejected and tie up the system. Theoretically. Need to 3d print them vs buy. Each with creative serial numbers... FU-01, EATADICK-01, USUK-01 etc... |
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Posted: 9/4/2022 8:26:45 AM EDT
[#42]
Ever fill out a 4473?
Guess what? Those guns are on a registry attached to you. |
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Posted: 9/4/2022 8:42:03 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So let me get this straight. Bunch of people on this forum that warn people of a gun registration, are jumping in line for a “free” gun registration because of privilege from the gov’t to dictate barrel length? What in the actual fuck? They’re displaying the worst “conservative” trait - utter and absolute adherence to any and all rules and laws handed down by the government. In the belief that “I follow the laws” makes them a good person. Even if those laws are intentionally created to put them at a disadvantage and are so Byzantine as to be nearly impossible to comply with fully. None of these dude lining up to register are going to fight against a tyrannical government. They also absolutely hate those who ignore rules. They’ll turn you in at the first chance. |
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Posted: 9/4/2022 8:46:16 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is where my mind went. Free SBR for everything in my safe. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: you could use one brace to get free stamps on all guns that it fits on. This is where my mind went. Free SBR for everything in my safe. You just registered everything in your safe. |
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Posted: 9/4/2022 8:55:38 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Ever fill out a 4473? Guess what? Those guns are on a registry attached to you. Quoted: You just registered everything in your safe. Everything in your safe that involved a 4473 is registered. To believe otherwise is absurd. |
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Posted: 9/4/2022 8:59:10 AM EDT
[#46]
Where do people see that this will be a FREE stamp?
The AMMOLAND article says they "expect it to be free" but does not give any source. The AFT information collection request to OMB (which is a standard request anytime a government agency collects info from people, part of the Paperwork Reduction Act) discusses the taxes associated with the NFA, and that only certain exemptions exist. It never says they will not be levied here. While the AFT likes to try to write their own laws, I doubt they can waive taxes. The statement in the information request about no payment or gift applies to what is to be paid to respondents (people filling out the forms). See https://pra.digital.gov/clearance-process/ and specifically paragraph 9 of https://pra.digital.gov/uploads/supporting-statement-a-instructions.pdf I do not see anything that says the stamps will be free. If someone has supporting info, please share. The request itself is screwed up - it says they only expect " 25,716 respondents". |
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Posted: 9/4/2022 9:14:15 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not true, this is an urban myth. Remember when the ATF went to inspect/collect FRT's? Or the recent case of the ATF knocking on that guy's door asking to see some guns he purchased? |
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Posted: 9/4/2022 9:15:06 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not true, this is an urban myth. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: But then it registered? And the ATF can come to your house and "inspect" said SBR when ever they like without a warrant? Not true, this is an urban myth. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/jul/20/gop-lawmaker-calls-atf-explain-video-agents-asking/ |
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Posted: 9/4/2022 9:27:29 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everything in your safe that involved a 4473 is registered. To believe otherwise is absurd. |
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Posted: 9/4/2022 9:31:37 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People did the exact same thing in May of 1986 registering hundreds if not thousands of recievers as MGs, in some cases registering metal tubing. If the rules allow it following the rules to get a free stamp isn't doing anything illegal. If a braced firearm turns into a free sbr why not do it? SBR is illegal where I am but Other is not. (AR pistols are illegal here but Other is not  ). Also, why would anyone want to register anything? What the government is doing is illegal and none of their damn business. |
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