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Posted: 1/9/2024 9:41:44 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: You are delaying the transient by a less than a handful of seconds, if that, at the expense of greatly increasing pressure differentials and the airflow through all the other flight deck penetrations and exposing structure and equipment to pressures and accelerated airflows for which they aren't rated. In fact, you may not delay the transient at all. If you make the door an immovable object ... something else is probably going give ... and possibly take some wiring with it. Checked this on last couple of flights.  Attached FileAssuming the pressurization system was operating normally, there would have been about a 6psi difference before the cabin went from 2k' pressure altitude to the ambient 16k' in a matter of seconds. I agree that having a semi-controlled way to release that pressure from the cockpit via the kick panels is much better than risking the door failing in a different way. |
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Posted: 1/9/2024 10:08:44 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Checked this on last couple of flights.  Assuming the pressurization system was operating normally, there would have been about a 6psi difference before the cabin went from 2k' pressure altitude to the ambient 16k' in a matter of seconds. I agree that having a semi-controlled way to release that pressure from the cockpit via the kick panels is much better than risking the door failing in a different way. Am I interpreting this correctly? ~2k inside, ~18k outside, so maybe about 4 minutes or so of climb out? That'd be a pressure ratio of ~1.8, and pushing sonic airflow conditions at the fuselage opening, at least at the start of the transient. [in fighters, iirc, the pressure schedule is more like, "wherever you go, there you are," or at least within something like +/- 1.0 psid of the altitude-based schedule, no matter how fast you get there; and surely one of many reasons why you would feel like you are getting beat-up on during air combat maneuvers] |
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Posted: 1/9/2024 10:30:34 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh, wow. I saw the 500fpm rate limit mentioned on Jaun's YouTube video, and realized I needed to pull out pencil and paper to draw out what that really meant, but that dial photo certainly drives it home. Am I interpreting this correctly? ~2k inside, ~18k outside, so maybe about 4 minutes or so of climb out? That'd be a pressure ratio of ~1.8, and pushing sonic airflow conditions at the fuselage opening, at least at the start of the transient. [in fighters, iirc, the pressure schedule is more like, "wherever you go, there you are," or at least within something like +/- 1.0 psid of the altitude-based schedule, no matter how fast you get there; and surely one of many reasons why you would feel like you are getting beat-up on during air combat maneuvers] Just under 2k inside (inner dial with small needle) with 6 psi differential (outer scale with larger needle). Pic was taken while climbing through 16k after departing from roughly sea level. As a reference, this is climbing through 16k after departing Denver. Since it hadn't reached that ~6 psi differential yet, the cabin pressure had not begun to decrease.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/9/2024 10:33:50 PM EDT
[#4]
From one of the comments on Juan's video:
"The boy whose shirt was blown off said that he heard a whistling sound coming from the side of the plane near his seat. He told this to my son, who was on the plane three rows ahead. The kid was moved to the seat right behind my son. My son had his wife and two toddlers with him on the plane. Life can sure be chaotic sometimes."  "Yes, We Have No Bolts" 9 Jan 737 Max-9 Update |
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Posted: 1/9/2024 10:45:26 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's what the VP of Quality had to say, Gonzalez-Beltran, however, insists he’s getting positive buy-in from mechanics who take pride in performing their work without an inspector’s oversight. “People feel good about it, feeling they have ownership,” he said. “They are stamping it saying, ‘This is good. I built it. I did it right. Move on. I don’t need somebody else to come and check it.'” The part in bold hints at the possible true source of declining quality of Boeing aircraft. All good and well to have good feels, and pride in the work of your craft. . . There are some people who know that pride and feelings don’t do shit to keep an airplane in the air and on course. |
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Posted: 1/9/2024 10:55:46 PM EDT
[#6]
Flight attendents are going to revise their little program that nobody listens to and tell passangers leave belt on the entire time to avoid falling out of the plane.
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Posted: 1/9/2024 11:27:43 PM EDT
[#7]
Was looking at some phots that the NTSB had posted on their Flickr since we had no real new updates today.... https://www.flickr.com/photos/ntsb/albums/72177720313904488/
Well well well....... keep looking...   Attached File |
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Posted: 1/9/2024 11:33:27 PM EDT
[#8]
That same plastic works on a Nissan Altima doing 120 mph and running from the highway patrol . It will have no problem at 400 mph. Just use some of the good duct tape.
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Posted: 1/9/2024 11:35:06 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was looking at some phots that the NTSB had posted on their Flickr since we had no real new updates today.... https://www.flickr.com/photos/ntsb/albums/72177720313904488/ Well well well....... keep looking... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/164047/LG_jpg-3088638.JPG Slide bracket still on the |
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Posted: 1/9/2024 11:39:52 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Slide bracket still on the bracket on the right? That's sure the hell what I see |
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Posted: 1/9/2024 11:42:29 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That same plastic works on a Nissan Altima doing 120 mph and running from the highway patrol . It will have no problem at 400 mph. Just use some of the good duct tape. Imagine the high speed flapping BBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTT |
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Posted: 1/9/2024 11:47:49 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Imagine the high speed flapping BBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTT Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That same plastic works on a Nissan Altima doing 120 mph and running from the highway patrol . It will have no problem at 400 mph. Just use some of the good duct tape. Imagine the high speed flapping BBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTT |
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Posted: 1/9/2024 11:52:12 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 1/10/2024 12:02:14 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was looking at some phots that the NTSB had posted on their Flickr since we had no real new updates today.... https://www.flickr.com/photos/ntsb/albums/72177720313904488/ Well well well....... keep looking... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/164047/LG_jpg-3088638.JPG Dovetails pretty nicely with all the pics of loose bolts from those inspections. If you go full zoom on the pic on the link you posted, you can see the cotter-pinned lock bolts that should secure those brackets to the shaft are also missing. You can just count the fuck-ups here. For reference, here's how it looks right before it comes apart in flight: (only this one has the lock nut/bolt/cotter-pin in place)  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/10/2024 12:04:14 AM EDT
[#15]
So thinking in to this some more if the bolts backed out of that sliding assembly and that is what we are seeing behind that plastic. I had heard one of the lower hinge components was missing but filed it away as just a possibility since it was just word of mouth. NTSB made comment about one of the upper track guide fittings being fractured on the door. (image)
 Attached FileThey did not go into specifics such as fracture around locking bolt causing it to fall out, the whole guide assembly fractured from door, or anything else. All of the stop pads and stop fittings seem to be in good shape on the door and fuselage pictures we have seen. The the left and right upper guide rollers on the fuselage look fine. The door still had to find a way to translate up or down, on at least one side, over 1 1/2 inches up or down , to misalign the stop pads and fitting to create a leak or departure of the door. Will be interesting to hear about the upper guide track fitting damage. |
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Posted: 1/10/2024 12:04:29 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was looking at some phots that the NTSB had posted on their Flickr since we had no real new updates today.... https://www.flickr.com/photos/ntsb/albums/72177720313904488/ Well well well....... keep looking...  Ok, aside from the aft hinge/spring fitting just dangling there like it couldn't transfer enough impulse to liberate from the stop fitting, aside from that, I think I see an outline of a xenomorph near the aft side of the doorframe, facing forward. So, yeah, if the flight attendants realized they had a xenomorph onboard, I can see why they'd be so frantic in trying to close the flightdeck door, or blowout panels, or whatever it was. I mean, none of this was really making sense until the xenomorph thing. |
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Posted: 1/10/2024 12:11:55 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, aside from the aft hinge/spring fitting just dangling there like it couldn't transfer enough impulse to liberate from the stop fitting, aside from that, I think I see an outline of a xenomorph near the aft side of the doorframe, facing forward. So, yeah, if the flight attendants realized they had a xenomorph onboard, I can see why they'd be so frantic in trying to close the flightdeck door, or blowout panels, or whatever it was. I mean, none of this was really making sense until the xenomorph thing. Don't them damn creatures drool? Maybe just a corrosion issue after all... Alaskan maint. should have spotted it. |
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Posted: 1/10/2024 12:41:34 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryIf you’ve ever dealt with Boeing…this is SOP |
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Posted: 1/10/2024 1:35:46 AM EDT
[#19]
So that’s why she said they were still looking for a green slider and spring. (Singular).
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Posted: 1/10/2024 1:39:32 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you've ever dealt with Boeing this is SOP Quote HistoryQuoted: If you've ever dealt with Boeing this is SOP |
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Posted: 1/10/2024 3:11:44 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Mariner82 What does that mean? Asking because I do not know. |
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Posted: 1/10/2024 3:15:19 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's what the VP of Quality had to say, Gonzalez-Beltran, however, insists he's getting positive buy-in from mechanics who take pride in performing their work without an inspector's oversight. "People feel good about it, feeling they have ownership," he said. "They are stamping it saying, 'This is good. I built it. I did it right. Move on. I don't need somebody else to come and check it.'" |
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Posted: 1/10/2024 3:18:14 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The door is still locked in place by a selanoid, only a middle panel opens during a decompression event. All doors have been like that after they were redesigned after 9/11. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: https://i.imgur.com/53WoCT1.jpeg That's interesting. I bet than info was never supposed to be made public. The door is still locked in place by a selanoid, only a middle panel opens during a decompression event. All doors have been like that after they were redesigned after 9/11. |
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Posted: 1/10/2024 4:00:34 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Apparently that's what everyone thought/assumed, but is in fact not the case. Makes you wonder what other undocumented features Boeing has implemented. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: https://i.imgur.com/53WoCT1.jpeg That's interesting. I bet than info was never supposed to be made public. The door is still locked in place by a selanoid, only a middle panel opens during a decompression event. All doors have been like that after they were redesigned after 9/11. It the whole door opened then now they need to investigate that also. |
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Posted: 1/10/2024 4:05:27 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It the whole door opened then now they need to investigate that also. |
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Posted: 1/10/2024 4:33:25 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: but it is my understanding there is a structural bulkhead at the cockpit cabin junction, is that not true? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: https://i.imgur.com/53WoCT1.jpeg That’s interesting. I bet than info was never supposed to be made public. If I'm in a plane that experiences rapid decompression, I'd like the pilots to a have a bit more time to don their masks, thank you very much. That’s not how it works. The whole outside skin of an airplane is one big pressure vessel. There are no “Pressure Bulkheads” like you’d see on a Warship. I like your idea though, and will forward it to the relevant authorities. It will require the complete replacement of every aircraft ever built. but it is my understanding there is a structural bulkhead at the cockpit cabin junction, is that not true? There’s a structure, and it may even be referred to as a “bulkhead” but I do not believe it’s built to withstand pressure differential. |
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Posted: 1/10/2024 7:55:33 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There’s a structure, and it may even be referred to as a “bulkhead” but I do not believe it’s built to withstand pressure differential. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: https://i.imgur.com/53WoCT1.jpeg That’s interesting. I bet than info was never supposed to be made public. If I'm in a plane that experiences rapid decompression, I'd like the pilots to a have a bit more time to don their masks, thank you very much. That’s not how it works. The whole outside skin of an airplane is one big pressure vessel. There are no “Pressure Bulkheads” like you’d see on a Warship. I like your idea though, and will forward it to the relevant authorities. It will require the complete replacement of every aircraft ever built. but it is my understanding there is a structural bulkhead at the cockpit cabin junction, is that not true? There’s a structure, and it may even be referred to as a “bulkhead” but I do not believe it’s built to withstand pressure differential. For the B737, STA 178, is the forward bulkhead which is the structure behind the radome and where the weather radar antenna is mounted. The aft pressure bulkhead is behind the aft galley and is known as the P dome. Prior to the -900 aircraft is shaped like a dome, the -900 are a flat structure. If you ever get a chance open the aft accessory compartment door where the horizontal stabilizer actuator lives and look up, you will see the aft pressure bulkhead. The are also bulkhead panels (6) in the nose wheel well. |
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Posted: 1/10/2024 8:04:59 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's what happened. The entire armored security door opened, not just a blowout panel. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It the whole door opened then now they need to investigate that also. Then to me, I could only assume that the pilots never locked the door. That door is bypassed all the time on the ground during maintenance. There is a red guarded switch that disables the function of the lock. It could be possible the switch was never closed but I would assume a checklist would have caught that. |
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Posted: 1/10/2024 10:54:42 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Meaning, if the NTSB or FAA bring issues to light then Boeing will try to address them and shift blame to others, such as the carriers, otherwise we will keep our mouths shut and hope nobody shines the spotlight on us (Boeing or Spirit) to show the half assed assembly and inspections that follow the delivery of certified airframes? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you've ever dealt with Boeing this is SOP More like…. Boeing: here’s an inspection/repair. Airlines: hey, this is identified the wrong part and these new parts don’t fit. It should be like this: XXX Boeing: we will revise it to include XXX. Revisement comes out, says YYXYZ. Airline: hey this is worse than before, do you not validate these inspections/repairs Rinse/repeat 8 times… FAA: hey fellas, I was out to lunch for a few weeks. I’m going to help! What’s an airplane? |
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Posted: 1/10/2024 7:15:28 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For the B737, STA 178, is the forward bulkhead which is the structure behind the radome and where the weather radar antenna is mounted. The aft pressure bulkhead is behind the aft galley and is known as the P dome. Prior to the -900 aircraft is shaped like a dome, the -900 are a flat structure. If you ever get a chance open the aft accessory compartment door where the horizontal stabilizer actuator lives and look up, you will see the aft pressure bulkhead. The are also bulkhead panels (6) in the nose wheel well. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: https://i.imgur.com/53WoCT1.jpeg That’s interesting. I bet than info was never supposed to be made public. If I'm in a plane that experiences rapid decompression, I'd like the pilots to a have a bit more time to don their masks, thank you very much. That’s not how it works. The whole outside skin of an airplane is one big pressure vessel. There are no “Pressure Bulkheads” like you’d see on a Warship. I like your idea though, and will forward it to the relevant authorities. It will require the complete replacement of every aircraft ever built. but it is my understanding there is a structural bulkhead at the cockpit cabin junction, is that not true? There’s a structure, and it may even be referred to as a “bulkhead” but I do not believe it’s built to withstand pressure differential. For the B737, STA 178, is the forward bulkhead which is the structure behind the radome and where the weather radar antenna is mounted. The aft pressure bulkhead is behind the aft galley and is known as the P dome. Prior to the -900 aircraft is shaped like a dome, the -900 are a flat structure. If you ever get a chance open the aft accessory compartment door where the horizontal stabilizer actuator lives and look up, you will see the aft pressure bulkhead. The are also bulkhead panels (6) in the nose wheel well. Thanks, but alas, it’s far behind me now. I’ll never get to fly the -900 (not that there’s anything wrong with that) 
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Posted: 1/10/2024 7:36:09 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dovetails pretty nicely with all the pics of loose bolts from those inspections. If you go full zoom on the pic on the link you posted, you can see the cotter-pinned lock bolts that should secure those brackets to the shaft are also missing. You can just count the fuck-ups here. For reference, here's how it looks right before it comes apart in flight: (only this one has the lock nut/bolt/cotter-pin in place) https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/164047/bolts_jpg-3087288.JPG Except that picture was to show that the bolts on the right of that bracket were loose. And in one of the pictures of the aircraft above it seems like that bracket is still on the slider hinge - ie missing or loose bolts on the same bracket. |
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Posted: 1/10/2024 9:43:15 PM EDT
[#32]
Boeing doesn't care if planes crash. Their Diversity-Equity-Inclusion goals are all that matter!
Boeing's corporate filings with the SEC reveal that in beginning 2022, the annual bonus plan to reward CEO and executives for increasing profit for shareholders and prioritizing safety was changed to reward them if they hit DEI targets.
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Posted: 1/10/2024 10:29:05 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh, wow. I saw the 500fpm rate limit mentioned on Jaun's YouTube video, and realized I needed to pull out pencil and paper to draw out what that really meant, but that dial photo certainly drives it home. Am I interpreting this correctly? ~2k inside, ~18k outside, so maybe about 4 minutes or so of climb out? That'd be a pressure ratio of ~1.8, and pushing sonic airflow conditions at the fuselage opening, at least at the start of the transient. [in fighters, iirc, the pressure schedule is more like, "wherever you go, there you are," or at least within something like +/- 1.0 psid of the altitude-based schedule, no matter how fast you get there; and surely one of many reasons why you would feel like you are getting beat-up on during air combat maneuvers] Wow, that pressure gauge looks like it came from a different planet from what we worked on. Kind of a silly question, but does it have an internal vibrator? Does it clatter? The aircraft gauges sounded like rattle snakes. Our maintenance differential pressure gauges were an unpowered box that used an inflatable aneroid that rarely "transmitted" changes to the needles smoothly. Mostly the stuck, a lot. You had to tap on the damn thing the entire time you were doing pressurizations. ETA: if you've seen the famous picture of the tanker the reservist broke in half...he was using a homemade version of our box. Yikes. |
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Posted: 1/11/2024 10:18:13 AM EDT
[#34]
fixed
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Posted: 1/11/2024 10:29:25 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Boeing doesn't care if planes crash. Their Diversity-Equity-Inclusion goals are all that matter! Boeing's corporate filings with the SEC reveal that in beginning 2022, the annual bonus plan to reward CEO and executives for increasing profit for shareholders and prioritizing safety was changed to reward them if they hit DEI targets.
"We'll pay you extra to make the company less competent" sure seems like a solid plan. |
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Posted: 1/11/2024 2:04:05 PM EDT
[#36]
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Posted: 1/11/2024 3:53:59 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh, wow. I saw the 500fpm rate limit mentioned on Jaun's YouTube video, and realized I needed to pull out pencil and paper to draw out what that really meant, but that dial photo certainly drives it home. Am I interpreting this correctly? ~2k inside, ~18k outside, so maybe about 4 minutes or so of climb out? That'd be a pressure ratio of ~1.8, and pushing sonic airflow conditions at the fuselage opening, at least at the start of the transient. [in fighters, iirc, the pressure schedule is more like, "wherever you go, there you are," or at least within something like +/- 1.0 psid of the altitude-based schedule, no matter how fast you get there; and surely one of many reasons why you would feel like you are getting beat-up on during air combat maneuvers] Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Checked this on last couple of flights. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/78606/Pressure_gauge_at_16k_jpg-3088494.JPG Assuming the pressurization system was operating normally, there would have been about a 6psi difference before the cabin went from 2k' pressure altitude to the ambient 16k' in a matter of seconds. I agree that having a semi-controlled way to release that pressure from the cockpit mvia the kick panels is much better than risking the door failing in a different way. Am I interpreting this correctly? ~2k inside, ~18k outside, so maybe about 4 minutes or so of climb out? That'd be a pressure ratio of ~1.8, and pushing sonic airflow conditions at the fuselage opening, at least at the start of the transient. [in fighters, iirc, the pressure schedule is more like, "wherever you go, there you are," or at least within something like +/- 1.0 psid of the altitude-based schedule, no matter how fast you get there; and surely one of many reasons why you would feel like you are getting beat-up on during air combat maneuvers] In airliners, the cabin pressure controller knows what the planned cruise altitude will be and schedules a cabin climb rate to get to a max of 8 psid at cruise. That usually means a cabin altitude climb rate of about a 500 for passenger comfort. I have seen it just below 1000 when climbing like a bitch with an empty jet doing a maintenance reposition. IIRC above 1000 ft per min cabin climb rate and a warning like comes on. A fighter has no idea what altitude you are planning and in a fight it obviously changes rapidly so the cabin pressurization does not come up with a cabin climb or descend schedule it just knows what altitude it is at and pressurizes a set cabin pressure for that altitude very very quickly, so you get very large cabin pressure changes all the time. In the Eagle if you go to 50,000 feet, the cabin pressure will be 25,000 feet. Like say you are in an inverted spin that started at 35,000 feet and you are dropping in excess of 40,000 feet per minute ( been there done that all the way to 1500 feet before I was able to recover the jet ) your ears will probably pop, LOL, but I can guarantee you don’t notice it. In fact after a while in the business, you just don’t notice the pressure changes at all |
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Posted: 1/11/2024 4:36:53 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDk7IQPWMAAdv5D?format=jpg&name=large |
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Posted: 1/11/2024 5:10:46 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDk7IQPWMAAdv5D?format=jpg&name=large So basically giving them a heads up an investigation is coming? Couldn’t Boeing just hide evidence in the meantime? |
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Posted: 1/11/2024 6:46:44 PM EDT
[#40]
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Posted: 1/11/2024 8:57:41 PM EDT
[#41]
The airlines are going to have a hard time selling exit-row seats after this.
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Posted: 1/11/2024 9:04:03 PM EDT
[#42]
Boeing Subcontractor Subject Of Lawsuit Over QC Deficiencies
"Weeks before a catastrophic incident involving a Boeing 737 MAX 9, workers had raised warnings about defective production procedures. Reporters at Jacobin.com posted a story yesterday (Jan. 9) citing documents filed in federal court from workers at Spirit AeroSystems, the Boeing subcontractor that reportedly manufactured the door plug that departed a Boeing 737 MAX 9 on Jan. 5 over Portland, Oregon. As part of the federal securities lawsuit, a Spirit employee allegedly told higher-ups about an “excessive amount of defects,” later telling a colleague he “believed it was just a matter of time until a major defect escaped to a customer.” According to the court filing, the company ignored the warnings. Broadly, the lawsuit alleges that Spirit deliberately covered up systemic quality-control deficiencies, encouraged employees to underplay defects and retaliated against workers who spoke out about their safety concerns. The complaints speak to Boeing’s allegedly insufficient oversight of subcontractors such as Spirit and the FAA’s inability to effectively regulate quality control. According to the Jacobin report, William McGee, former panel member advising the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) and now a senior fellow for aviation and travel at the American Economics Liberty Project, said, “The FAA’s chronic, systemic, and longtime funding gap is a key problem in having the staffing, resources, and travel budgets to provide proper oversight. Ultimately, the FAA has failed to provide adequate policing of outsourced work, both at aircraft manufacturing facilities and at airline maintenance facilities.”" |
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Posted: 1/11/2024 9:31:20 PM EDT
[#43]
There's TOO MANY SNAKES on this air ... wait - where'd all the snakes go? And what do these castelated nuts go to?
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Posted: 1/11/2024 9:36:04 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's TOO MANY SNAKES on this air ... wait - where'd all the snakes go? And what do these castelated nuts go to? Can't tell you but there are indications..that if true..seems to warrant a near complete "teardown/annual inspection equivalent" of multiple aircraft to check for more problems. |
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Posted: 1/12/2024 11:19:58 AM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 1/12/2024 12:10:02 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This doesn't make it sound like the Max 9s will be back soon. https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/faa-boost-oversight-boeing-audit-737-max-9-production-line-2024-01-12/ [FAA Administrator] MichaelWhitaker declined to put any timetable on whether the FAA might approve the inspection and maintenance instructions that would allow airlines to begin returning MAX 9 planes to service. |
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Posted: 1/12/2024 12:21:02 PM EDT
[#47]
The MAX should have never been developed in the first place.
That airframe design is 60 years old. |
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Posted: 1/12/2024 12:37:21 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The MAX should have never been developed in the first place. That airframe design is 60 years old. |
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Posted: 1/12/2024 12:55:21 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ehhh just because something is 60 years old in design, doesn't make it bad. New designs can come up, and then 60 years after that, they can be found to have been much worse than the original. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The MAX should have never been developed in the first place. That airframe design is 60 years old. But in this case, using the old airframe design caused Boeing to implement a new MCAS system due to changes in handling. A new system which they decided not to inform and properly train pilots on (or the FAA) so they could tell customers that no new training would be required for the MAX. This fraud cost 346 people their lives, and cost Boeing over $2.5B in fines. Too bad Boeing leadership didn't get criminally charged - that was really what was needed. I honestly hope all 737 Maxes get grounded permanently because I don't want me or my family flying on them and they are hard to avoid. |
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Posted: 1/12/2024 1:00:45 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But in this case, using the old airframe design caused Boeing to implement a new MCAS system due to changes in handling. A new system which they decided not to inform and properly train pilots on (or the FAA) so they could tell customers that no new training would be required for the MAX. This fraud cost 346 people their lives, and cost Boeing over $2.5B in fines. Too bad Boeing leadership didn't get criminally charged - that was really what was needed. I honestly hope all 737 Maxes get grounded permanently because I don't want me or my family flying on them and they are hard to avoid. I think many of them will eventually ground the living shit out of themselves. |
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