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Riot Squad 2020 Magnificent Unicorn
I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery Envy was once considered to be one of the seven deadly sins before it became one of the most admired virtues under its new name, 'social justice. |
Originally Posted By Cecenrse: Good Morning Riot Squad dudes. Hello Afghanistan By way of apology this morning for posting on full auto, I offer: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/406377/131140640_10218093683988710_408470118381-1736513.jpg (Obviously not me, since we all know I'm a redhead and not THAT hawt, lol) View Quote |
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If I had to be stranded in an island for a long time with a male arfcommer it'd be eesmith. I'm not gay, but I do get lonely. - Kalahnikid
tnsparky Medikeighted EdwardAvila Rest In Peace, Brothers. |
Mike_314....If there was communism in the desert, there would soon be a shortage of sand.
Riot Squad Member 2020: we will shit on your pillow Riot stream list on top of page 3047 |
Originally Posted By Seiran: You being a redhead makes you hotter. Also, you're hotter anyway. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Seiran: Originally Posted By Cecenrse: Good Morning Riot Squad dudes. Hello Afghanistan By way of apology this morning for posting on full auto, I offer: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/406377/131140640_10218093683988710_408470118381-1736513.jpg (Obviously not me, since we all know I'm a redhead and not THAT hawt, lol) Truth |
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Originally Posted By Cecenrse: https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/131944277_2661692494105876_5814882446134857718_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&cb=846ca55b-311e05c7&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Zu7wNzLC8KQAX-x7V80&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=97eb95b825c51542e061fccd278dc3d3&oe=6002236F Nothing shocking here. I'm utterly mad and need new guns. lol View Quote NEW GUNS!!!! YEAH! Attached File |
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Originally Posted By Doodles: If memory serves me correctly 1 Ohio class sub is alone the 3rd (or 5th I forget) largest nuclear power in the world. Rest easy we got this. "Death from below" Meet the Ohio-Class: America's Nuclear Doomsday Submarines View Quote I have stepped foot on both the Ohio and the Michigan. |
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Mike_314....If there was communism in the desert, there would soon be a shortage of sand.
Riot Squad Member 2020: we will shit on your pillow Riot stream list on top of page 3047 |
Originally Posted By Seiran: You being a redhead makes you hotter. Also, you're hotter anyway. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Seiran: Originally Posted By Cecenrse: Good Morning Riot Squad dudes. Hello Afghanistan By way of apology this morning for posting on full auto, I offer: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/406377/131140640_10218093683988710_408470118381-1736513.jpg (Obviously not me, since we all know I'm a redhead and not THAT hawt, lol) Yeah... I think. Still stuck on Black Sheath Dress & Heels and range of outright authenticity. |
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There are a handful of regulars in GD that I wish would skydive into the middle of the ocean. One of them has a screen name that was mentioned in a comedy. I hate that guy I am going there less and less. I scan the first page for and LEGIT news.
So many security cams made in China. Probably everyone I own is. One for sure I know has back doors for the company to access. Nit that they’ll see anything except my unused side yard and neighbors shed. |
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Interested in finding out what all the secrecy is about.
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If I had to be stranded in an island for a long time with a male arfcommer it'd be eesmith. I'm not gay, but I do get lonely. - Kalahnikid
tnsparky Medikeighted EdwardAvila Rest In Peace, Brothers. |
Originally Posted By dbmers: There are a handful of regulars in GD that I wish would skydive into the middle of the ocean. One of them has a screen name that was mentioned in a comedy. I hate that guy I am going there less and less. I scan the first page for and LEGIT news. So many security cams made in China. Probably everyone I own is. One for sure I know has back doors for the company to access. Nit that they’ll see anything except my unused side yard and neighbors shed. View Quote They know where to pop smoke.... DIBS.... ETA...I have debated on security cams myself after hearing about all the "back doors to china and the cams calling home." |
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Mike_314....If there was communism in the desert, there would soon be a shortage of sand.
Riot Squad Member 2020: we will shit on your pillow Riot stream list on top of page 3047 |
Originally Posted By dbmers: There are a handful of regulars in GD that I wish would skydive into the middle of the ocean. One of them has a screen name that was mentioned in a comedy. I hate that guy I am going there less and less. I scan the first page for and LEGIT news. So many security cams made in China. Probably everyone I own is. One for sure I know has back doors for the company to access. Nit that they’ll see anything except my unused side yard and neighbors shed. View Quote I am venturing there less these days, myself. Keeping up with this thread keeps me occupied enough. |
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Originally Posted By Ex_Sanguine_Nation: I am venturing there less these days, myself. Keeping up with this thread keeps me occupied enough. View Quote This. workout, "work", workout, eat, sleep, that's about all I do lately. Stay focused, ignore the haters, build wealth. That's all you need to do. |
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RS Callsign Mayhem Midget
SSgt Jason A Decker. 11/6/09 |
RS Callsign Mayhem Midget
SSgt Jason A Decker. 11/6/09 |
RS Callsign Mayhem Midget
SSgt Jason A Decker. 11/6/09 |
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Originally Posted By Ex_Sanguine_Nation: And you have to wonder: Would he be issuing waves of pardons if he weren't planning on leaving? Food for thought and discussion... View Quote Because he thinks things out. Better to be safe than sorry. That was a mistake that Obama made when he left all of those judge seats open for Hillary to fill. |
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Let us never forget, government has no resources of its own. Government can only give to us what it has previously taken from us.
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Originally Posted By stoner01: Fuck bitches. Make money. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By stoner01: Originally Posted By evo7011: This. workout, "work", workout, eat, sleep, that's about all I do lately. Stay focused, ignore the haters, build wealth. That's all you need to do. Fuck bitches. Make money. You left off shoot guns. Kill commies. |
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So earlier this year got my CC stolen. This was like back in Jan/Feb. Just noticed in my account 2 days ago they tried to use this same card for online car parts, both charges around $250 each. They were denied but damn bet someone is pissed they bought CC that had already been used for fraud. Wonder if they attempt to track the asshole who tried to use it (yes they are an asshole as well, they didn't just wake up with my CC in their back pocket, they purchased it from someone to use it themselves).
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Mike_314....If there was communism in the desert, there would soon be a shortage of sand.
Riot Squad Member 2020: we will shit on your pillow Riot stream list on top of page 3047 |
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KF7WNX If you want a picture of the future, imagine Clownshoes stomping on a human face—for ever.
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Originally Posted By Scoobysmak: They know where to pop smoke.... DIBS.... ETA...I have debated on security cams myself after hearing about all the "back doors to china and the cams calling home." View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Scoobysmak: Originally Posted By dbmers: There are a handful of regulars in GD that I wish would skydive into the middle of the ocean. One of them has a screen name that was mentioned in a comedy. I hate that guy I am going there less and less. I scan the first page for and LEGIT news. So many security cams made in China. Probably everyone I own is. One for sure I know has back doors for the company to access. Nit that they’ll see anything except my unused side yard and neighbors shed. They know where to pop smoke.... DIBS.... ETA...I have debated on security cams myself after hearing about all the "back doors to china and the cams calling home." Unless the Chinese employ millions of cam watchers the likelihood of yours being watched is pretty slim. Probably millions upon millions of their cams worldwide. |
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I think I have stated in the past that I had several real concerns about the RNA SARS_COV2 vaccine. First, an RNA vaccine has never been developed and approved for use in humans before now. We've had many years do so, but suddenly they have rushed this procedure into reality in a matter of months, rather than years.
I have serious concerns regarding insufficient clinical trials length and number of infected/non-infected participants, and no long term data regarding side effects/adverse reactions from the vaccine. That will not be known for years. There is also the question of infertility as a possibility, though likely remote, but still possible. Many people have questioned if RNA vaccinations could permanently alter the DNA of the vaccinated patients. Also remote, but theoretically a possibility. There is also a remote, but theoretic possibility that permanent changes could be passed on to your future offspring. If that occurred it would likely make them less resistant to spiked protein viruses. Anyway, the article does a better job of explaining all of these things since he is a better writer, and more knowledgeable than I am. I realize that many of you have jobs which will require you to be vaccinated, military, HCW's, airline employees, and others. I am posting this full article in the spoiler because it is easily understood by laypeople, for the most part. It is primarily regarding the RNA questions. Quick read and if anyone has questions I don't know the answer to, I will do my best to find out. @BethanyHatch The Vaccine is administered intramuscularly, not subcutaneous. Click To View Spoiler When people hear the words RNA vaccine, the first question that comes to the average person’s mind is, “Will this vaccine permanently alter my DNA?” The second question is, “If the vaccine does alter my DNA, what are the potential long-term health impacts?” These are fair questions. Unfortunately, these questions are usually brushed aside, ignored, minimized, or discounted by the pharmaceutical ecosystem. This concern about genetic modification is normally answered by the following argument: RNA will not permanently alter your DNA because it is a temporary molecule that quickly becomes destroyed in the cell, and because it is fundamentally different than DNA. RNA does not integrate into DNA, and RNA doesn’t remain in the cell permanently because the cell destroys the RNA relatively quickly. Therefore, there is no potential risk of an RNA vaccine genetically modifying a person’s genome. On the surface, this seems like a rock-solid answer. It is the textbook response that would earn a 100% grade on an examination for a college-level molecular biology class. However, the cells in our body know nothing of the exams being taken by graduate students. First, let me briefly describe how an RNA vaccine works. Second, let me show you viable cellular pathways where an RNA vaccine could make its way into someone’s permanent genetic material. An RNA vaccine works by turning a small portion of the cells in our body into a vaccine production factory. Both RNA and DNA are information carrying molecules. They carry instructions on how to build specific proteins. Our cells read this information, and then build proteins according to the instructions. In the case of an RNA vaccine, the delivered RNA instructions instruct our cells to build a near-perfect replica of a very specific protein that resides on the outside of the SARS-CoV-2 virus called the “Spike” protein. This Spike protein normally resides on the outside of the virus and functions as a tether that enables the virus to enter into a human cell. Because the Spike Protein resides on the outside of the virus, it’s prime real estate for our immune system to target. Therefore, when you are administered an RNA vaccine, this RNA will enter a small portion of your cells, and these cells will start churning out a replica of the viral Spike protein. It’s important to realize that your cells are not producing the entire virus, just a portion of the virus— the Spike protein. Because it is foreign to the body, this cellularly produced Spike protein will then prompt your immune cells to learn how to develop antibodies that specifically recognize the Spike protein. At this point, you are “vaccinated” because you have acquired antibodies that recognize the virus (via the Spike protein), as well as memory cells that can produce more of the antibody should you be infected with the actual virus. If your body is exposed to the coronavirus, these antibodies will recognize the Spike protein on the outside of the virus. When the virus is coated in antibodies, it is “neutralized” and can no longer infect other cells. Most other vaccines work by administering the Spike protein directly into your body, or by introducing an attenuated or inactivated virus that contains the Spike protein. In these types of traditional vaccines, the Spike protein was previously made in a vaccine production facility. In an RNA vaccine, there is no Spike protein in the vaccine. Instead, the vaccine provides your cells with instructions on how to build the Spike protein. Essentially, your cells have become the vaccine production factory. After some time, this delivered RNA will be destroyed by our cells, and the cells will stop producing the Spike protein. Our body should be left unchanged, except for the presence of antibodies and immune cells which now recognize the Spike protein of the virus. In theory, this is how the vaccine should work. Sounds great on paper, doesn’t it? Before jumping to reductionist conclusions, let’s go one level deeper into molecular biology to answer the question of whether or not this extraneous RNA could potentially alter our DNA permanently. I believe the answer to this question is yes. It is well known that RNA can be “reverse transcribed” into DNA. Residing in our cells are enzymes called “reverse transcriptases”. These enzymes convert RNA into DNA. Multiple sources for this class of enzymes exist within our cells. These reverse transcriptases are normally made by other viruses termed “retroviruses”. HIV is a retrovirus and so is Hepatitis B, but there are many other retroviruses that fall in this category. In addition to these external viruses, there are viruses that are hard-wired into our genomic DNA called endogenous retroviruses (ERVs). These ERVs harbor instructions to produce reverse transcriptase. In addition to ERVs, there are mobile genetic elements residing in our DNA called LTR-retrotransposons that also encode for reverse transcriptase enzymes. To top it all off, reverse transcriptase is naturally used by our cells to extend the telomeres at the end of chromosomes. These endogenous reverse transcriptase enzymes can essentially take single-stranded RNA and convert it into double-stranded DNA. This DNA can then be integrated into the DNA in the nucleus through an enzyme termed DNA integrase. With so many sources of reverse transcriptase, it is quite probable that the RNA introduced into our cells via the vaccine could be reverse transcribed into a segment of double-stranded DNA, and then integrated into our core genetic material in the nucleus of the cell. A variety of specific conditions need to be present for this to occur, but it is possible if the right convergence occurs. Biology is messy and not always perfectly predictable, even when the “rules” are known a priori. Even though the initial vaccine is only introduced into a relatively small portion of our cells, if this reverse transcription process occurs in stem cells, then this genetically modified cell can be replicated and amplified to a larger portion of cells that make up the tissues of the body. Stem cells serve as a reservoir to produce new cells in perpetual fashion. In this way, over time, a larger percentage of our somatic cells can be replaced by these genetically modified stem-cell precursors. This type of genetically modified replacement of cells is seen in some patients who have received bone-marrow transplants from other patients. In these patients, even germline cells such as sperm can inherit these genetic modifications, even though the pathway for this germline modification is still not understood. In these patients, the so called “rules” that presumably prevented such an outcome were violated. I think most molecular biologists would look at my thesis and discount it as improbable, and I wouldn’t argue with them too strongly. After all, if these reverse pathways from RNA to DNA were actively possible, wouldn’t a normal infection by the virus cause the same problem? Wouldn’t the RNA introduced by a viral infection of SARS-CoV-2 serve as a potential substrate for permanent genetic modification of cellular DNA, just like the RNA in the vaccine? I would answer that this possibility exists, too. However, I believe the probability of viral RNA undergoing this process is much smaller for several reasons. First, the viral RNA is packaged into viral particles which act like a shell. These RNA molecules are temporarily unpackaged from this shell while inside the cell to produce more viral RNA and viral proteins, which are quickly sequestered and repackaged into new viral particles. Also, viral RNA is inherently unstable due to sequence specific peculiarities unique to viral RNA, and is quickly recognized by cellular enzymes for destruction. Therefore, the amount of time available for reverse transcriptase to work on “bare” viral RNA is very low. In contrast to this, the RNA provided to cells via a vaccine has been altered in the lab to increase its stability such that it persists in the cell for a much longer time. A number of modifications are made to increase the stability and longevity of this vaccine-delivered RNA. This artificial engineering of RNA is designed to produce RNA that hangs around in the cell much longer than viral RNA, or even RNA that our cell normally produces for normal protein production. The purpose of this engineered longevity is to increase the production of Spike protein by our cells to maximize the efficacy of the vaccine. In addition, this RNA is not rapidly sequestered away into new viral particles. Therefore, the probability that a molecular pathway could be found that results in this RNA being converted over into DNA is much higher, in my opinion. This probability may be miniscule, and may not even be noticeable in in vitro experiments, or even in clinical trials across tens of thousands of patients. The odds of this occurring may be 1 in 1 followed by many zeros; however, that miniscule probability flies out the window when you understand that the average human body has 30 trillion cells, and the vaccine will be deployed in up to 7 billion people. If you multiply these small probabilities across these large numbers, the probability that this could occur in a modestly large number of people is very real. What happens if this occurs? There are two possible outcomes that are not mutually exclusive. First, modification of somatic cells, and in particular, stem cells, could result in a segment of the population with an increasing percentage of their tissues being converted over to genetically modified cells. These genetically modified cells will possess the genetic sequence to produce Spike Protein. Because Spike protein is a foreign protein to the human body, the immune systems of these individuals will attack the cells in their body which express this protein. These people will almost inevitably develop autoimmune conditions which are irreversible, since this foreign protein antigen is now permanently hardwired into the instructions contained in their DNA. The second possibility is based on a pathway being found that transfers this genetic modification to germline cells (egg and sperm). This is certainly a more remote possibility, but if it occurred, this insertional genetic mutation would find itself in all future generations stemming from this individual or individuals. Because this is a germline modification and not a somatic modification, this new genetic element will be present in every single cell of these individuals. This means that potentially every tissue in their body could express Spike protein. Because this protein is present from birth, the immune system will recognize this new protein as “self” rather than non-self (foreign). If these individuals are infected with coronavirus, their immune system would fail to recognize the Spike protein of the virus as foreign, and these individuals will have substantially reduced capacity to fend off the coronavirus. Therefore, over time over future generations, a growing percentage of the population would be more susceptible to severe infection by the coronavirus due to limited immune function. Now, none of the scenarios outlined above touch on the downstream risk of developing antibody dependent enhancement (ADE), which is a major problem with any vaccine developed for coronaviruses. ADE is a risk for any type of vaccine, including RNA vaccines. The current RNA vaccines being rushed forward have only been tested for a few months, and ADE would not rear its ugly head for several years, although it could occur sooner. Therefore, the current clinical trial data is not anywhere close to being sufficient to rule out the health risk of ADE. If ADE does occur in an individual, then their response to the virus could be fatal when they are actually exposed to the virus post-vaccination. To learn more about the possibility of ADE, click here to read my article —> “Is A Coronavirus Vaccine a Ticking Timebomb.” In addition to the risks mentioned above, another risk becomes apparent: If the cell is infected with either an external virus, or endogenous retrovirus, while the vaccine is active in the cell, this from the vaccine could be genetically spliced into the existing genome of another virus. This virus would then gain a functional Spike protein, which would then allow it to infect respiratory tissues and other organs of the body. This means that viruses that were normally isolated to certain tissues would suddenly gain the ability to infect a much wider range of tissues, making them more pathogenic or deadly. It’s probably good to point out at this stage of the discussion that an RNA vaccine has never been approved for use in humans. This would be the first time in history that such an approach would be used on a massive scale. Approximately 50 clinical trials have been conducted on RNA vaccines for cancer treatment, and about a dozen RNA-based vaccines are under development for SARS-CoV-2. Two candidates, one from Pfizer/BioNTech (BNT162b2) and the other from Moderna (mRNA-1273), are the furthest along, and have shown decent efficacy in Phase III clinical trials (although I would argue strongly the sample sizes of infected individuals in both experiments were so small that making this efficacy claim is rather dubious at this stage). If you have read the news lately, these vaccines are being rushed headlong to be deployed on a massive scale with little attention being paid to the potential ramifications. My professional opinion is that since RNA vaccines are a new mode of delivering vaccines, they should be tested for 5-10 years to demonstrate that genetic modification is not a major concern. In addition, all coronavirus vaccines, regardless of type, should be tested for an equal duration to show that ADE is not a concern. It is absolutely impossible to rule out these safety concerns in less than a year. I only share this information so people are informed and can weigh the potential risks and benefits. The bottom line is the choice is up to you; however, for people to make such an important decision, they need to possess all of the information. |
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Riot Squad 2020 Magnificent Unicorn
I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery Envy was once considered to be one of the seven deadly sins before it became one of the most admired virtues under its new name, 'social justice. |
RS Callsign Mayhem Midget
SSgt Jason A Decker. 11/6/09 |
Originally Posted By Banditman: Because he thinks things out. Better to be safe than sorry. That was a mistake that Obama made when he left all of those judge seats open for Hillary to fill. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Banditman: Originally Posted By Ex_Sanguine_Nation: And you have to wonder: Would he be issuing waves of pardons if he weren't planning on leaving? Food for thought and discussion... Because he thinks things out. Better to be safe than sorry. That was a mistake that Obama made when he left all of those judge seats open for Hillary to fill. That would be my minimalist assumption, for sure. Better to have than to have not. |
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Per the data I got yesterday, the vaccine is optional for the military.
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KF7WNX If you want a picture of the future, imagine Clownshoes stomping on a human face—for ever.
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Originally Posted By dbmers: There are a handful of regulars in GD that I wish would skydive into the middle of the ocean. One of them has a screen name that was mentioned in a comedy. I hate that guy I am going there less and less. I scan the first page for and LEGIT news. So many security cams made in China. Probably everyone I own is. One for sure I know has back doors for the company to access. Nit that they’ll see anything except my unused side yard and neighbors shed. View Quote Baofeng comes to mind too. |
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Riot Squad 2020 Magnificent Unicorn
I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery Envy was once considered to be one of the seven deadly sins before it became one of the most admired virtues under its new name, 'social justice. |
Riot Squad 2020 Magnificent Unicorn
I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery Envy was once considered to be one of the seven deadly sins before it became one of the most admired virtues under its new name, 'social justice. |
I am determined to defend my rights and maintain my freedom or sell my life in the attempt. - Nathanael Greene
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Originally Posted By Cecenrse: I just figured you guys needed someone new. Everybody is likely getting a little tired of, and annoyed by, me. Much of the time I annoy myself. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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If I had to be stranded in an island for a long time with a male arfcommer it'd be eesmith. I'm not gay, but I do get lonely. - Kalahnikid
tnsparky Medikeighted EdwardAvila Rest In Peace, Brothers. |
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Originally Posted By Cecenrse: I have serious concerns regarding insufficient clinical trials length and number of infected/non-infected participants, and no long term data regarding side effects/adverse reactions from the vaccine. View Quote Were doing the clinical trials right now, on our frontline health care workers and are most vulnerable populations. Perfect. |
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I am determined to defend my rights and maintain my freedom or sell my life in the attempt. - Nathanael Greene
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Originally Posted By stoner01: I did not specify how you fucked or made the money.... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By stoner01: Originally Posted By 36trap: You left off shoot guns. Kill commies. I did not specify how you fucked or made the money.... This isn't about making money having sex with the corpses of commies you killed is it? Asking for a friend... |
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Originally Posted By Cecenrse: I just figured you guys needed someone new. Everybody is likely getting a little tired of, and annoyed by, me. Much of the time I annoy myself. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Cecenrse: Originally Posted By Seiran: You being a redhead makes you hotter. Also, you're hotter anyway. I just figured you guys needed someone new. Everybody is likely getting a little tired of, and annoyed by, me. Much of the time I annoy myself. You are good at ferreting out those bits of info from Twatter and such that I am incapable of or unwilling to do. So I appreciate that. |
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Originally Posted By Cecenrse: I think I have stated in the past that I had several real concerns about the RNA SARS_COV2 vaccine. First, an RNA vaccine has never been developed and approved for use in humans before now. We've had many years do so, but suddenly they have rushed this procedure into reality in a matter of months, rather than years. I have serious concerns regarding insufficient clinical trials length and number of infected/non-infected participants, and no long term data regarding side effects/adverse reactions from the vaccine. That will not be known for years. There is also the question of infertility as a possibility, though likely remote, but still possible. Many people have questioned if RNA vaccinations could permanently alter the DNA of the vaccinated patients. Also remote, but theoretically a possibility. There is also a remote, but theoretic possibility that permanent changes could be passed on to your future offspring. If that occurred it would likely make them less resistant to spiked protein viruses. Anyway, the article does a better job of explaining all of these things since he is a better writer, and more knowledgeable than I am. I realize that many of you have jobs which will require you to be vaccinated, military, HCW's, airline employees, and others. I am posting this full article in the spoiler because it is easily understood by laypeople, for the most part. It is primarily regarding the RNA questions. Quick read and if anyone has questions I don't know the answer to, I will do my best to find out. @BethanyHatch The Vaccine is administered intramuscularly, not subcutaneous. Click To View Spoiler When people hear the words RNA vaccine, the first question that comes to the average person’s mind is, “Will this vaccine permanently alter my DNA?” The second question is, “If the vaccine does alter my DNA, what are the potential long-term health impacts?” These are fair questions. Unfortunately, these questions are usually brushed aside, ignored, minimized, or discounted by the pharmaceutical ecosystem. This concern about genetic modification is normally answered by the following argument: RNA will not permanently alter your DNA because it is a temporary molecule that quickly becomes destroyed in the cell, and because it is fundamentally different than DNA. RNA does not integrate into DNA, and RNA doesn’t remain in the cell permanently because the cell destroys the RNA relatively quickly. Therefore, there is no potential risk of an RNA vaccine genetically modifying a person’s genome. On the surface, this seems like a rock-solid answer. It is the textbook response that would earn a 100% grade on an examination for a college-level molecular biology class. However, the cells in our body know nothing of the exams being taken by graduate students. First, let me briefly describe how an RNA vaccine works. Second, let me show you viable cellular pathways where an RNA vaccine could make its way into someone’s permanent genetic material. An RNA vaccine works by turning a small portion of the cells in our body into a vaccine production factory. Both RNA and DNA are information carrying molecules. They carry instructions on how to build specific proteins. Our cells read this information, and then build proteins according to the instructions. In the case of an RNA vaccine, the delivered RNA instructions instruct our cells to build a near-perfect replica of a very specific protein that resides on the outside of the SARS-CoV-2 virus called the “Spike” protein. This Spike protein normally resides on the outside of the virus and functions as a tether that enables the virus to enter into a human cell. Because the Spike Protein resides on the outside of the virus, it’s prime real estate for our immune system to target. Therefore, when you are administered an RNA vaccine, this RNA will enter a small portion of your cells, and these cells will start churning out a replica of the viral Spike protein. It’s important to realize that your cells are not producing the entire virus, just a portion of the virus— the Spike protein. Because it is foreign to the body, this cellularly produced Spike protein will then prompt your immune cells to learn how to develop antibodies that specifically recognize the Spike protein. At this point, you are “vaccinated” because you have acquired antibodies that recognize the virus (via the Spike protein), as well as memory cells that can produce more of the antibody should you be infected with the actual virus. If your body is exposed to the coronavirus, these antibodies will recognize the Spike protein on the outside of the virus. When the virus is coated in antibodies, it is “neutralized” and can no longer infect other cells. Most other vaccines work by administering the Spike protein directly into your body, or by introducing an attenuated or inactivated virus that contains the Spike protein. In these types of traditional vaccines, the Spike protein was previously made in a vaccine production facility. In an RNA vaccine, there is no Spike protein in the vaccine. Instead, the vaccine provides your cells with instructions on how to build the Spike protein. Essentially, your cells have become the vaccine production factory. After some time, this delivered RNA will be destroyed by our cells, and the cells will stop producing the Spike protein. Our body should be left unchanged, except for the presence of antibodies and immune cells which now recognize the Spike protein of the virus. In theory, this is how the vaccine should work. Sounds great on paper, doesn’t it? Before jumping to reductionist conclusions, let’s go one level deeper into molecular biology to answer the question of whether or not this extraneous RNA could potentially alter our DNA permanently. I believe the answer to this question is yes. It is well known that RNA can be “reverse transcribed” into DNA. Residing in our cells are enzymes called “reverse transcriptases”. These enzymes convert RNA into DNA. Multiple sources for this class of enzymes exist within our cells. These reverse transcriptases are normally made by other viruses termed “retroviruses”. HIV is a retrovirus and so is Hepatitis B, but there are many other retroviruses that fall in this category. In addition to these external viruses, there are viruses that are hard-wired into our genomic DNA called endogenous retroviruses (ERVs). These ERVs harbor instructions to produce reverse transcriptase. In addition to ERVs, there are mobile genetic elements residing in our DNA called LTR-retrotransposons that also encode for reverse transcriptase enzymes. To top it all off, reverse transcriptase is naturally used by our cells to extend the telomeres at the end of chromosomes. These endogenous reverse transcriptase enzymes can essentially take single-stranded RNA and convert it into double-stranded DNA. This DNA can then be integrated into the DNA in the nucleus through an enzyme termed DNA integrase. With so many sources of reverse transcriptase, it is quite probable that the RNA introduced into our cells via the vaccine could be reverse transcribed into a segment of double-stranded DNA, and then integrated into our core genetic material in the nucleus of the cell. A variety of specific conditions need to be present for this to occur, but it is possible if the right convergence occurs. Biology is messy and not always perfectly predictable, even when the “rules” are known a priori. Even though the initial vaccine is only introduced into a relatively small portion of our cells, if this reverse transcription process occurs in stem cells, then this genetically modified cell can be replicated and amplified to a larger portion of cells that make up the tissues of the body. Stem cells serve as a reservoir to produce new cells in perpetual fashion. In this way, over time, a larger percentage of our somatic cells can be replaced by these genetically modified stem-cell precursors. This type of genetically modified replacement of cells is seen in some patients who have received bone-marrow transplants from other patients. In these patients, even germline cells such as sperm can inherit these genetic modifications, even though the pathway for this germline modification is still not understood. In these patients, the so called “rules” that presumably prevented such an outcome were violated. I think most molecular biologists would look at my thesis and discount it as improbable, and I wouldn’t argue with them too strongly. After all, if these reverse pathways from RNA to DNA were actively possible, wouldn’t a normal infection by the virus cause the same problem? Wouldn’t the RNA introduced by a viral infection of SARS-CoV-2 serve as a potential substrate for permanent genetic modification of cellular DNA, just like the RNA in the vaccine? I would answer that this possibility exists, too. However, I believe the probability of viral RNA undergoing this process is much smaller for several reasons. First, the viral RNA is packaged into viral particles which act like a shell. These RNA molecules are temporarily unpackaged from this shell while inside the cell to produce more viral RNA and viral proteins, which are quickly sequestered and repackaged into new viral particles. Also, viral RNA is inherently unstable due to sequence specific peculiarities unique to viral RNA, and is quickly recognized by cellular enzymes for destruction. Therefore, the amount of time available for reverse transcriptase to work on “bare” viral RNA is very low. In contrast to this, the RNA provided to cells via a vaccine has been altered in the lab to increase its stability such that it persists in the cell for a much longer time. A number of modifications are made to increase the stability and longevity of this vaccine-delivered RNA. This artificial engineering of RNA is designed to produce RNA that hangs around in the cell much longer than viral RNA, or even RNA that our cell normally produces for normal protein production. The purpose of this engineered longevity is to increase the production of Spike protein by our cells to maximize the efficacy of the vaccine. In addition, this RNA is not rapidly sequestered away into new viral particles. Therefore, the probability that a molecular pathway could be found that results in this RNA being converted over into DNA is much higher, in my opinion. This probability may be miniscule, and may not even be noticeable in in vitro experiments, or even in clinical trials across tens of thousands of patients. The odds of this occurring may be 1 in 1 followed by many zeros; however, that miniscule probability flies out the window when you understand that the average human body has 30 trillion cells, and the vaccine will be deployed in up to 7 billion people. If you multiply these small probabilities across these large numbers, the probability that this could occur in a modestly large number of people is very real. What happens if this occurs? There are two possible outcomes that are not mutually exclusive. First, modification of somatic cells, and in particular, stem cells, could result in a segment of the population with an increasing percentage of their tissues being converted over to genetically modified cells. These genetically modified cells will possess the genetic sequence to produce Spike Protein. Because Spike protein is a foreign protein to the human body, the immune systems of these individuals will attack the cells in their body which express this protein. These people will almost inevitably develop autoimmune conditions which are irreversible, since this foreign protein antigen is now permanently hardwired into the instructions contained in their DNA. The second possibility is based on a pathway being found that transfers this genetic modification to germline cells (egg and sperm). This is certainly a more remote possibility, but if it occurred, this insertional genetic mutation would find itself in all future generations stemming from this individual or individuals. Because this is a germline modification and not a somatic modification, this new genetic element will be present in every single cell of these individuals. This means that potentially every tissue in their body could express Spike protein. Because this protein is present from birth, the immune system will recognize this new protein as “self” rather than non-self (foreign). If these individuals are infected with coronavirus, their immune system would fail to recognize the Spike protein of the virus as foreign, and these individuals will have substantially reduced capacity to fend off the coronavirus. Therefore, over time over future generations, a growing percentage of the population would be more susceptible to severe infection by the coronavirus due to limited immune function. Now, none of the scenarios outlined above touch on the downstream risk of developing antibody dependent enhancement (ADE), which is a major problem with any vaccine developed for coronaviruses. ADE is a risk for any type of vaccine, including RNA vaccines. The current RNA vaccines being rushed forward have only been tested for a few months, and ADE would not rear its ugly head for several years, although it could occur sooner. Therefore, the current clinical trial data is not anywhere close to being sufficient to rule out the health risk of ADE. If ADE does occur in an individual, then their response to the virus could be fatal when they are actually exposed to the virus post-vaccination. To learn more about the possibility of ADE, click here to read my article —> “Is A Coronavirus Vaccine a Ticking Timebomb.” In addition to the risks mentioned above, another risk becomes apparent: If the cell is infected with either an external virus, or endogenous retrovirus, while the vaccine is active in the cell, this from the vaccine could be genetically spliced into the existing genome of another virus. This virus would then gain a functional Spike protein, which would then allow it to infect respiratory tissues and other organs of the body. This means that viruses that were normally isolated to certain tissues would suddenly gain the ability to infect a much wider range of tissues, making them more pathogenic or deadly. It’s probably good to point out at this stage of the discussion that an RNA vaccine has never been approved for use in humans. This would be the first time in history that such an approach would be used on a massive scale. Approximately 50 clinical trials have been conducted on RNA vaccines for cancer treatment, and about a dozen RNA-based vaccines are under development for SARS-CoV-2. Two candidates, one from Pfizer/BioNTech (BNT162b2) and the other from Moderna (mRNA-1273), are the furthest along, and have shown decent efficacy in Phase III clinical trials (although I would argue strongly the sample sizes of infected individuals in both experiments were so small that making this efficacy claim is rather dubious at this stage). If you have read the news lately, these vaccines are being rushed headlong to be deployed on a massive scale with little attention being paid to the potential ramifications. My professional opinion is that since RNA vaccines are a new mode of delivering vaccines, they should be tested for 5-10 years to demonstrate that genetic modification is not a major concern. In addition, all coronavirus vaccines, regardless of type, should be tested for an equal duration to show that ADE is not a concern. It is absolutely impossible to rule out these safety concerns in less than a year. I only share this information so people are informed and can weigh the potential risks and benefits. The bottom line is the choice is up to you; however, for people to make such an important decision, they need to possess all of the information. View Quote So since I have two totally different sets of DNA in my body already I can become a super zombie....... Yeah I am not amused by an RNA vaccination.....just me. I agree with the 5 to 10 years of testing first. When we start having an outbreak of 90% of children being born with some type of disability it will be too late..... |
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Mike_314....If there was communism in the desert, there would soon be a shortage of sand.
Riot Squad Member 2020: we will shit on your pillow Riot stream list on top of page 3047 |
Originally Posted By Atomic_Ferret: I can see one of the nation's largest military bases from my back deck. Not much worry here as I have a front row seat to the fireworks. It would be over before I knew it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Atomic_Ferret: Originally Posted By Ex_Sanguine_Nation: Originally Posted By Danielsuzuki1: Originally Posted By MRTsHaircut: Originally Posted By pumafish: Still a few pages back, but you guys might find this essay series interesting. Covers a lot of the more counter-intuitive aspects of nuclear warfare, targetting scenarios, strategic thinking, and the immediate and long term effects of an exchange. Part I: Policy Click To View Spoiler From: "Stuart Slade" Date: Mon Aug 19, 2002 07:53:22 AM US/Pacific Subject: Nuclear Warfare 101 The Nuclear Game - An Essay on Nuclear Policy Making When a country first acquires nuclear weapons it does so out of a very accurate perception that possession of nukes fundamentally changes it relationships with other powers. What nuclear weapons buy for a New Nuclear Power (NNP) is the fact that once the country in question has nuclear weapons, it cannot be beaten. It can be defeated, that is it can be prevented from achieving certain goals or stopped from following certain courses of action, but it cannot be beaten. It will never have enemy tanks moving down the streets of its capital, it will never have its national treasures looted and its citizens forced into servitude. The enemy will be destroyed by nuclear attack first. A potential enemy knows that so will not push the situation to the point where our NNP is on the verge of being beaten. In effect, the effect of acquiring nuclear weapons is that the owning country has set limits on any conflict in which it is involved. This is such an immensely attractive option that states find it irresistible. Only later do they realize the problem. Nuclear weapons are so immensely destructive that they mean a country can be totally destroyed by their use. Although our NNP cannot be beaten by an enemy it can be destroyed by that enemy. Although a beaten country can pick itself up and recover, the chances of a country devastated by nuclear strikes doing the same are virtually non-existent. [This needs some elaboration. Given the likely scale and effects of a nuclear attack, its most unlikely that the everybody will be killed. There will be survivors and they will rebuild a society but it will have nothing in common with what was there before. So, to all intents and purposes, once a society initiates a nuclear exchange its gone forever]. Once this basic factor has been absorbed, the NNP makes a fundamental realization that will influence every move it makes from this point onwards. If it does nothing, its effectively invincible. If, however, it does something, there is a serious risk that it will initiate a chain of events that will eventually lead to a nuclear holocaust. The result of that terrifying realization is strategic paralysis. With that appreciation of strategic paralysis comes an even worse problem. A non-nuclear country has a wide range of options for its forces. Although its actions may incur a risk of being beaten they do not court destruction. Thus, a non-nuclear nation can afford to take risks of a calculated nature. However,a nuclear-equipped nation has to consider the risk that actions by its conventional forces will lead to a situation where it may have to use its nuclear forces with the resulting holocaust. Therefore, not only are its strategic nuclear options restricted by its possession of nuclear weapons, so are its tactical and operational options. So we add tactical and operational paralysis to the strategic variety. This is why we see such a tremendous emphasis on the mechanics of decision making in nuclear powers. Every decision has to be thought through, not for one step or the step after but for six, seven or eight steps down the line. We can see this in the events of the 1960s and 1970s, especially surrounding the Vietnam War. Every so often, the question gets asked "How could the US have won in Vietnam?" with a series of replies that include invading the North,extending the bombing to China and other dramatic escalations of the conflict. Now, it should be obvious why such suggestions could not, in the real world, be contemplated. The risk of ending up in a nuclear war was too great. For another example, note how the presence of nuclear weapons restricted and limited the tactical and operational options available to both sides in the 1973 Yom Kippur War. In effect neither side could push the war to a final conclusion because to do so would bring down nuclear attack on the heads of the "winners". Here, Israel's nuclear arsenal was limiting the conflict before it even started. Egypt and Syria couldn't destroy the country - all they could do was to chew up enough of the Israeli armed forces and put themselves in the correct strategic position to dictate a peace agreement on much more favorable terms than would be the case. But, the Israeli nuclear arsenal also limited the conflict in another way. Because they were a nuclear power they were fair game; if they pushed the Egyptians too hard, they would demand Soviet assistance and who knew where that would lead? So, the direct effects of nuclear weapons in a nation's hands is to make that nation extremely cautious. They spend much time studying situations, working out the implications of such situations, what the likely results of certain policy options are. One of the immense advantages the US had in the Cold War was that they had a network of Research Institutes and Associations and consulting companies who spent their time doing exactly this sort of work. (Ahh the dear dead days of planning nuclear wars. The glow of satisfaction as piecutters are placed over cities; the warm feeling of fulfillment as the death toll passed the billion mark; the sick feeling of disappointment as the casualties from a given strategy only amounted to some 40 million when preliminary studies had shown a much more productive result. But I digress). This meant that a much wider range of policy options could be studied than was possible if the ideas were left in military hands.These organizations, the famous think tanks had no inhibitions about asking very awkward questions that would end the career of a military officer doing the same. This network became known as The Business. We're still out here. So. What were nuclear weapons good for? It seems they are more of a liability than an asset. To some extent that's true but the important fact remains,they do limit conflict. As long as they are in place and functional they are an insurance policy against a nation getting beaten. That means that if that country is going to get beaten, its nuclear weapons have to be taken out first. It also means that if it ever uses its nuclear weapons, once they are gone, its invulnerability vanishes with it. Thus, the threat posed by nuclear weapons is a lot more effective and valuable than the likely results of using those weapons. Of course, this concern becomes moot if it appears likely that the NNP is about to lose its nuclear weapons to a pre-emptive strike. Under these circumstances, the country may decide that its in a use-it-or-lose-it situation.The more vulnerable to pre-emption those weapons are the stronger that imperative becomes. This is why ICBMs are such an attractive option. They are faster-reacting than bombers, they are easier to protect on the ground and they are much more likely to get through to their targets. This is why modern, advanced devices are much more desirable than the older versions. In the 1950s the Soviet Union had a nuclear attack reaction time of six weeks (don't laugh, that of the US was 30 days). The reason was simple, device design in those days meant that the device, once assembled, deteriorated very quickly and, once degraded, had to be sent back to the plant for remanufacture. Device assembly needed specialized teams and took time. This made a first strike very, very attractive - as long as the attacker could be sure of getting all the enemy force. It was this long delay to get forces available that made air defense and ABM such an attractive option. In effect, it could blunt an enemy attack while the assembly crews frantically put their own devices together and got them ready for launch. As advancing device design made it possible to reduce assembly time, this aspect of ABM became less important. What this also suggests is that large, secure nuclear arsenals are inherently safer than small, vulnerable ones. A large arsenal means that the owner can do appalling damage to an enemy, a secure arsenal means that no matter how the enemy attacks, enough weapons will survive to allow that destruction to take place. Here we have the genesis of the most misunderstood term in modern warfare - MAD, Mutually Assured Destruction. (Another point of elaboration here - MAD is not a policy and has never been instituted as a policy option. It's the effect of policies that have been promulgated. This is a very useful touchstone - if people mention the US Policy of MAD, they don't know what they are talking about). Its widely believed that this suggests that both sides are wide open to unrestricted destruction by the other. This is a gross over-simplification. What the term actually means is that both sides have enough nuclear firepower to destroy the other and that the firepower in question is configured in such ways that no pre-emptive strike can destroy enough of it to take away the fact that the other country will be destroyed. MAD did not preclude the use of defensive systems - in fact it was originally formulated to show how important they are - but its misunderstood version was held to do so - with catastrophic results for us all. One implication of this by the way is that in spite of all the fuss over the Chinese stealing the W88 warhead design, the net beneficiary of that is the United States; it allows the Chinese to build a much more secure deterrent and thus a more stable one. Also, looking at things purely ruthlessly, its better for one's enemy to make small clean bombs than big dirty ones. Aha, I hear you say what about the mad dictator? Its interesting to note that mad, homicidal aggressive dictators tend to get very tame sane cautious ones as soon as they split atoms. Whatever their motivations and intents, the mechanics of how nuclear weapons work dictate that mad dictators become sane dictators very quickly. After all its not much fun dictating if one's country is a radioactive trash pile and you're one of the ashes. China, India and Pakistan are good examples. One of the best examples of this process at work is Mao Tse Tung. Throughout the 1950s he was extraordinarily bellicose and repeatedly tried to bully, cajole or trick Khruschev and his successors into initiating a nuclear exchange with the US on the grounds that world communism would rise from the ashes. Thats what Quemoy and Matsu were all about in the late 1950s. Then China got nuclear weapons. Have you noticed how reticent they are with them? Its sunk in. They can be totally destroyed; will be totally destroyed; in the event of an exchange. A Chinese Officer here once on exchange (billed as a "look what we can do" session it was really a "look what we can do to you" exercise) produced the standard line about how the Chinese could lose 500 million people in a nuclear war and keep going with the survivors. So his hosts got out a demographic map (one that shows population densities rather than topographical data) and got to work with pie-cutters using a few classified tricks - and got virtually the entire population of China using only a small proportion of the US arsenal. The guest stared at the map for a couple of minutes then went and tossed his cookies into the toilet bowl. The only people who mouth off about using nuclear weapons and threaten others with them are those that do not have keys hanging around their necks. The moment they get keys and realize what they've let themselves in for, they get to be very quiet and very cautious indeed. Another great - and very recent example - look how circumspect the Indians and Pakistani Governments were in the recent confrontation - lots of words but little or no action to back them and both sides worked very hard not to do anything that could be misunderstood. (When the Pakistani's did a missile test they actually invited the Indians over to watch in order to ensure there was no ground for misunderstanding. The test itself was another message from both countries to the rest of the world - basically it read "Don't sweat it, we know the rules") One analyst from The Business was asked what Saddam Hussein would have done if Iraq had possessed nuclear weapons in 1990. He replied that he didn't know what he would have done but he did know what he would not have done - he would not have invaded Kuwait. Part II: Target Selection Click To View Spoiler From: "Stuart Slade" Date: Tue Aug 20, 2002 07:41:34 AM US/Pacific Subject: Nuclear Warfare 102 The Nuclear Game (Two) - Targeting Weapons One of the interesting aspects of a nuclear war is planning how its going to be done. Most fictional accounts of this process seem to assume that cities will be the primary targets and there will be one device allocated per city. This is very far from the truth. In fact, nuclear attack plans are very complicated things and, in a quite real sense, they don't exist. What does exist is a whole series of strategies aimed at achieving specific results. Which of those strategies are adopted and in what combinations is determined by the specific events taking place. Very often we'll hear of people talking about "The SIOP" as the Holy Grail of the US nuclear war plans. A good touchstone because there is no such thing - if people claim to have worked on the SIOP, they are being economical with the truth. What does exist are a very large number of plans and options that are put together on a mix-and-match basis. Unfortunately planning a nuclear strike isn't just a matter of working out which cities to destroy. In fact it isn't even a matter of working out which cities to destroy. In fact, we don't target cities at all per se. We target things, some of which happen to be in cities. Its necessary to remember the key; nuclear weapons are a tool, no more, no less. We don't blow up cities just because they are there any more than we fix a TV antenna on the roof by digging a hole in the back garden. Since we are using a tool to do a job, the first stage is to work out a series of objectives (ie decide what that job is). Normally discussions of such things rotate around strategies being either counter-force or counter-city but its a lot more complex than that. At the last count there were about 30 distinct targeting strategies that could be adopted. As an example, there could be:- Counter-military - aimed at destroying a country's armed forces. Such a strike would be aimed at things like arsenals, ports, airbases, military training sites etc Counter-strategic - aimed at taking out a country's strategic weapons force. This would hit the ICBM silos, SSBN ports and bases, the SSBNs themselves, bomber bases, nuclear storage depots etc. Counter-industrial - aimed at destroying key industrial assets and breaking the target country's industrial infrastructure Counter-energy - aimed at destroying a country's energy supplies and resources plus the means for distributing them. Counter-communications - aimed at disrupting and eliminating the target country's communications (radio, TV, landline, satellite etc)communications systems. Counter-political - aimed at erasing the target country's political leadership - note this is MUCH more difficult than it seems and is very dangerous. Killing the only people who can surrender is not terribly bright Counter-population - aimed at simply killing as much of the enemy population as possible. A very rare strategy. There are plenty of others. One of the things that gets done at this level is to think up targeting strategies, work out the target sets associated with that strategy and the resources needed to eliminate that target set. Based on that we can then work out if that particular target strategy is an effective use of resources. Note also that adopting one particular target strategy does not preclude simultaneously putting another into play. Mix and match again. So lets look at a typical targeting problem in an average sort of strike. We are going to give the capital of Outer Loonyistan a really thorough seeing-to. Now we don't just explode a bomb in the center of the city and say bye-bye. Believe it or not that won't do any real good. Initiate a 1 megaton device over the center of London and 95 percent of the cities assets and 80 percent of the population will survive (this means that, proportionally speaking, Londoners will be better off after a nuclear attack than they were before it took place. This was the basis of at least one Get Rich Quick scheme proposed in The Business). So we start by selecting a specific targeting strategy. Now we have to estimate the weight of attack Asylumville is likely to come under if that strategy is adopted. To do this we first work out how high Asylumville stands with regard to other potential target areas for that particular strategy. This is usually done by a careful assessment of what targets are in that area as opposed to similar target areas in other parts of the country and assuming the available warheads are distributed according to the target density in that area. Then we assess how many warheads are likely to be inbound and crank that into the priorities we've established to see how many are likely to be fired at Asylumville. It'll be a lot fewer than you think. This means is that we have to look very carefully at the city, its geography and the distribution of its assets in order to work out how to take it down. To do this we need some maps. We need a standard topographical map, demographic maps and asset/resource maps. Take the targeting strategy and the likely target set associated with it and plot them on that map. Now think out how hard that target set is going to be to destroy. The problems now become apparent. Some targets are best attacked by surface bursts, others by high airbursts. Some, very hard targets need almost direct hits to destroy them; others are so small (and so hard) that hitting them is very difficult.The sort of things we might look at hitting, depending how we do things, are communication facilities, railway marshalling yards, factories, oil refineries, government offices, military bases For example, if the target strategy is anti-communications,amongst the primary targets will be airfields and railway marshalling yards.They are notoriously difficult to destroy, the attacker needs big warheads and needs to ground burst them so the target is physically scoured from the ground. There is a lot of thought needed here; you'll find there are far more potential targets than real warheads so you'll have to allocate the warheads one way, then try to work out the effects. To give you some idea of how that list grows, there are something like 50,000 priority nuclear targets in Russia. Some of them are weird and tucked right out of the way (one of the most critical non-military targets in the USA is where you would least expect it). Now many of that 50,000 target list will be virtually on top of eachother. One initiation will get several of them. That pulls the list down immensely, probably to around 3,000 - 5,000 targets. OK back to working over Asylumville, the capital of Outer Loonyistan. If its like most other capitals, it'll probably merit a total of between five and ten devices to take out all the things we want to. One of the key tools used here is a thing called a pie-cutter. Its a circular hand-held computer. You set the verniers on it to the specifics of the weapon used (altitude of burst, yield etc) and it gives you a series of rings that show the various lethal effects of the bomb to certain distances. Put it down on the planned impact point and you'll get what the bomb will do. You won't get a pie cutter (they are classified equipment) but you can make your own from publically available data using tracing paper and compasses. . We end up with a map of the city after being worked over. Normally, at this point somebody says. Dammit we didn't get [insert some key assets] and we start again. The first shot at targeting will be stunningly disappointing so you play games with warhead types and yields and with burst locations until you get as many of target set as you can. Take that marshalling yard; sounds easy doesn't it? Believe me railway marshalling yards are a whirling son of a bitch to take down. They are virtually invulnerable to airbursts; we have to groundburst a blast directly on the yard. 800 yards outside and you might as well not have bothered. The problem is those yards are not that big. So now we have a problem called CEP. This stands for Circle of Equal Probability (NOT Circular Error Probable which is a totally meaningless term invented by those of the intrepid birdmen). This is a measure of the accuracy of the missile and is the radius of the circle that will contain half the missiles aimed at the center of the circle. That means that half the inbounds will fall outside that circle. Now we have a second concept; the radius of total destruction, the radius within which everything is destroyed. Its astonishingly small; for a 100 kt groundburst its about 800 yards (now see where the marshalling yard came from).. Now if the RTD exceeds the CEP we're probably OK, if it doesn't (and in most cases it doesn't) we've got problems. What all this ends up with is we have to fire multiple warheads at single targets in order to be sure of getting them. This is a complex calculation since the optimum number of warheads for Asylumville will depend on the attack pattern and priorities. But we'll eventually end up with number that represents the best compromise between destructive effects and warhead use. To estimate the effects on the area as a whole, take the demographic map, plot the event points, altitudes and yields on that map and apply the pie-cutter set for overpressure. The overpressure needed to destroy various types of building are public record (US houses are very very soft and vulnerable) so you know roughly what will be destroyed up to a given distance. Note that the blast circles will overlap in some places. Blast also isn't logical; ground irregularities will funnel it is some directions so that an area close in may be unscathed while others much further away will be flattened. Now we have to get them there. Missiles are not terribly reliable and a lot can go wrong. A Rectal Extraction figure suggests that only about 60 percent of them will work when the blue touchpaper is ignited. So we have to add extra warheads to allow for the duds. To give a feel for the sort of numbers that we're talking about, the British calculated that they needed 32 warheads to give Moscow a terminal dose of instant sunrise. In other words, the British nuclear deterrent took down Moscow and that was it. Key point here on the efficiency of defenses. In the 1950s, the UK V-bomber fleet was assigned to hit over 200 targets in the Western USSR. As the 50's turned into the 60's the ability of the V-bombers to penetrate Soviet airspace came under increasing doubt. The UK shifted to Polaris - one submarine at sea, 16 missiles, three warheads per. Total of 48 targets assigned. But the USSR started to install an anti-missile system that was reasonably capable against the early Polaris-type missiles. So the UK modified Polaris in a thing called Chevaline. this took one warhead from each missile and replaced the load with decoys - then targeted all 16 missiles onto Moscow. ONE target. In effect, the Soviet defenses had reduced the UK attack plan from 200 targets to one. In other words, it was 99.5 percent effective without firing a single shot (bad news for Moscow but great news for the other 199 cities with targets in them) That's why so many devices are needed - the inventory evaporates very fast. That's also why defenses like ABM are so important (and the urgency behind deploying the new US Missile Defense System). The defenses don't have to be very effective to work (although the new US system is looking good), its the complexity they throw into the planning process. As long as we can assume that if we get a warhead on its way to its target, that target is going to be hit, then planning is relatively easy and the results predictable. If, however, we can't make that guarantee; if we have to factor in a possibility - perhaps a good one - that the outbound warhead will be shot down, then planning becomes very uncertain. Now put yourself in the position of somebody planning a strike - do you wish to gamble your nation's change of survival on something that MIGHT work. Of course not. So Strategic Paralysis strikes again. A defense system doesn't have to work against an attack to be effective because it works on the minds of the people who make the decisions. Part III: The Attack and After Click To View Spoiler From: "Stuart Slade" Date: Wed Aug 21, 2002 10:34:23 AM US/Pacific Subject: Nuclear Warfare 103 The Nuclear Game - The Attack And After So far, when discussing nuclear weapons, we've always been working under the presumption that the historical situation applies and that we won't see a nuclear exchange. Lets look at the grim side of the equation now. The sirens are going and the National Emergency system is screaming its head off. What's the world going to be like in 25 minutes time? One thing we have to make clear before we start. We're talking about the biggest cataclysm in human history. When we say things like "doing well" or "doing badly", those terms are relative. Another thing is that most people's preconceptions about a nuclear war and its aftermath are wrong. Nevil Shute Norway did the world a great disservice when he wrote "On The Beach". The skewed viewpoint represented by that novel has been perpetuated ever since. A good modern example is the so-called "nuclear blast mapper" available on the internet that purportedly shows the effects of an initiation on an input home address. It doesn't, it doesn't even come close. A third preconception we have to get rid of is that there is such a thing as a limited nuclear exchange or a flexible response. There isn't now, never has been and never will be. The reasons why are primarily a C4I set of consideration but the inviolable rule is this "One Flies, They All Fly". Any exchange, no matter how limited, will escalate out of control until both participants have used all their devices. Any country can be divided into two parts. The "A-country" is the big cities, the industrial and population centers and the resource concentration they represent. Big cities got to be that way because they are in desirable locations,near good ports, river crossings or mountain passes. When the city goes, so does the locations. The "B-country" is everything else. In effect the A-country represents big vulnerable collections of assets gathered into single spots. The B-country represents dispersed ranges of resources spread over large areas.This is a very important distinction. The relative value of the A-country and the B-country depends on the country and society involved. However one thing is constant, the support and supplies that the A-country needs to survive comes from the B-country. Given time, the B-country will rebuild the A-country. The survival of the B-country is, therefore, critical while the survival of the A-country might not be. Now, the primary asset of the B-country is its population; they are the ones who will generate resources from the B-country and turn them into product. So, the critical thing for a post nuclear environment is population. Save as much of that as we can and we're a jump ahead. That sounds eminently humanitarian. In reality it has awful consequences but we'll come to those later. The extent to which the A-country can be rebuilt and the speed with which that can be achieved depends on the damage inflicted on the cities. One of the preconceptions that plague discussion of a nuclear war aftermath is the assumption that the cities will be totally destroyed write-offs but, in reality, the situation is by no means so simple. There's a few things that are important here. One is that big devices are a rarity. There are no 100 megaton devices, very few 25 and 10 megaton devices and not all that many 5 megaton weapons. The largest devices in widespread use are 1 megaton weapons and the majority of strategic weapons are in the 350 -150 kiloton bracket. 50 kiloton strategic weapons are quite common. The reason is quite simple. The destructive power of an explosion is distributed in three dimensions (actually four since the time component is very important) so the destructive power of a device is directly proportion to the cube root of its explosive power. Even worse, the destructive effects of a device are like many other distance related phenomena; they obey the inverse square law. Double the distance from the blast center and the effects are reduced by a factor of four. Therefore, a 1 megaton device is not 1,000 times as destructive as a 10 kiloton device, its ten times as such and those effects attenuate rapidly with distance. However, very big devices are MUCH heavier than small ones and consume disproportionate amounts of fissile material. Put all this together and its much more productive to have a large number of small devices than a small number of large ones. Another is how the devices are used. The radius of destruction of nuclear devices is actually quite limited; this is a natural outgrowth of working on the inverse square law. Even with one of the "big" 1 megaton weapons, its fury is largely spent by the time the blast wave has reached ten miles from center. The smaller devices have lesser radii although the workings of the cube power rule mean that those radii are not as small as the difference in explosive power suggests. Nevertheless, the relatively limited effect of the devices shows that the general civilian presumption that ground zero for a nuclear strike on a city will be the city center is likely to be wrong. The devices will be targeted onto specific parts of the city that are judged to be of especial value. These may actually be in the suburbs or other peripheral areas. So how does a nuclear device destroy things? The primary effects that result from the initiation of a device are (in no particular order) a light flash, a heat flash a blast concussion wave and a sleet of direct radiation. In fact, of these the last is of relatively little significance. The range of the radiation is very short and is further attenuated by the inverse square law. Its only significant within the areas where blast and heat are already lethal. If thermal blast and concussion have already reduced you to the size, shape and color of a McDonalds hamburger, irradiating you as well is incredibly superfluous. Thus the direct effects we are interested in are light, heat and blast and they do arrive in that order. The further an observer is from the point of initiation, the greater the gap between them. This is very important. The flash of light that will blind a victim close in serves to warn a potential victim further out. Once a few miles out from ground zero, the light flash tells the population that a device has gone off and its shadows show them sheltered areas from the next effects to arrive. If an area is shadowed from light, its shadowed from radiant heat as well. The heat flash is the first really destructive effect to hit. This is direct radiated thermal energy; like light it travels in straight lines. It will set anything inflammable on fire to a considerable distance from ground zero. Interestingly, it won't set non-flammable things on fire and, for example, must enter a house via windows etc before setting that house on fire. If the windows are masked (for example painted white), the heat flash is unlikely to set a brick-built house on fire (US-style frame houses are a different matter which is why it makes me uneasy living in one). Last to arrive is blast. Unlike light and heat, both of which travel in straight lines, blast can be funneled by structures, deflected and masked. The windows we carefully painted white are history; smashed by the blast wave and its associated wave front of debris but they've done their job. The heat flash has gone. Houses are actually quite well designed to resist pressure from outside - its pressure from inside that gives them problems. Again, if you can keep the blast out you've got a good chance. Impossible close in to ground zero but progressively easier as we get further from that point. Closing the shutters on windows inside the house is good; even taping the glass in a lattice pattern is astonishingly helpful. Compared with military targets, civilian structures have relatively low damage resistance. In the jargon we've been looking at, this is called protection factor (PF) - most civilians can, with a few minutes warning give themselves a PF of around 40 - meaning they are 40 times more likely to survive than an unprotected civilian. In other words, even though the structures surrounding them are soft and weak, there is a lot they can do that will greatly increase their chance of survival. Note that - even when the sirens are going off, there is still a lot you can do that greatly increases your chances of surviving - provided you have a chance of surviving in the first place. Lets imagine somebody has taken a serious dislike to your home town and decided to remove it. For all intents and purposes, the effects of initiation are generated in the center of the device initiation and travel outwards evenly in all dimensions to produce a perfectly symmetrical sphere or fireball. Now think of the geometry of this. If the device is initiated at ground level, a so-called ground burst, half of all that energy will go into the ground, scouring out a crater but effectively being wasted. More goes skywards. Some will be reflected down towards the earth but very little; effectively that energy too is wasted. The only energy that is actually useful is that produced in a narrow segment around the equator of the spherical ball produced by the initiation. Thus, for this type of attack ground bursts seem very inefficient. They are. So what do we do about it? Again, think of the geometry. If we lift the detonation point into the air, the segment of the sphere that will spend its energy destroying valuable things is increased and the amount that scours out a crater gets smaller. Keep thinking along these lines and we reach a point where the sphere of the fireball doesn't quite touch the ground at all. In this case almost all the energy from the lower half of the fireball destroys valuable things and none goes to digging a crater. This is called a low airburst and it remains a low airburst as long as the altitude of the point of initiation of the device is less than the diameter of the fireball (ie there is a fireball radius between the bottom of the fireball and the ground). If the point of initiation of the device is at an altitude greater than the diameter of the fireball it's a high airburst. If the intention is to knock down cities, low airbursts are the most effective way of doing it. We haven't mentioned fall-out. The dreaded stuff that destroys humanity.Well, there's a reason for that; the device has only just been initiated, there isn't any fall-out yet. Fall out is caused (mostly) by debris from the ground being sucked into the fireball, irradiated and spewed out of the top. This radioactive plume coalesces in the atmosphere and falls back to earth. It's a mix of isotopes of varying half lives. The most vicious of these isotopes have short half lives and are gone in a few hours (usually before the fallout makes it back to the ground). The milder ones can hang around for millennia but their effects are tolerable (speaking relatively again). The really dangerous ones are those that have a half life of between 5 and 6 years - these are long-lived enough to be seriously contaminating and hot enough to be dangerous. The worst is cobalt). Now the blast and heat throw debris outwards, where does the debris sucked into the fireball come from? Answer is the crater scoured in the ground by the energy from the device that went into said ground. But hang on, we've just discovered the best way to knock a city down is to use an airburst that doesn't crater the ground. Doesn't that mean no fallout? That's right, airbursts are relatively clean from a fallout point of view. They do generate some fallout from atmospheric dust and water vapor and a bit more (some very nasty) comes from the debris of the device but not as much as legend holds. This is especially the case since modern devices are very clean indeed and the debris from their initiation is far less than from the older designs. All this means that dropping a nuclear device on a city doesn't necessarily destroy it. In fact, an acquaintance of mine, Peter Laurie, used to start off his lecture on such things by suggesting that 1 megaton device dropped on London would do only trivial damage to the city. After the lynch mob had been brought under control, he'd put a pie cutter on a demographic map of London and prove the point. We touched on how limited the damage caused by a one megaton device initiated over the City of London would be in Part Two. To be fair,that includes people and property slightly damaged but repairable. The catch is that London wouldn't have been hit by one but by several (in fact four 350 kiloton and two 1 megaton weapons in one particular attack plan). This would still leave a substantial proportion of the population and a larger proportion of their assets intact. The implication of all this is that despite being subject to concentrated attack, the A-country isn't totally destroyed (although its society is) and remains a storehouse of people and goods. As an institution a big city is not viable for a variety of reasons but that is a long way from saying its simply flat, black and glowing in the dark. Its quite possible (depending on the attack patterns) that the big cities may be relatively unscathed. So what's been going on in the B-country. One attack pattern is to hit the nuclear weapons stationed out there. These are mostly silo-based missiles. The only way to destroy those is to explode a device directly on top of the silo and scour out of the ground. In other words, a ground burst. And they create huge amounts of fallout. This means that a counter-force strike is inherently much more dangerous to the survival of the population than a counter city strike. Weird isn't it? A counter-value strike attacking the population in their home cities gives them a reasonable chance of survival while a counter-force strike restricting the target plan to military targets and rejecting a deliberate attack on the cities radically decreases that chance of survival. It's a point we've seen happening over and over again - when dealing with nuclear weapons we often end up going places we never thought we would. Thats because the logic behind nuclear weapons use and the effects of that logic is often counter-intuitive. It also demands careful though and examination of reality, not preconceptions or postures. The B-country also gets hit by counter-city strikes but the dispersed nature of the population reduces their direct effects. OK so its over. The devices have ceased to arrive and eventually, probably after some 36 to 48 hours the all clear sounds. Notice another thing here; most accounts (The Day After for example) of a nuclear attack have a spasm lasting a few minutes and thats it. Sorry, Ain't So. The exchanges go on for days. What happens now? From now on we're looking specifically at the USA. We have to get the B-country working again. As we touched on earlier, the cities are not viable places to live. Without their support infrastructure, they will become plague pits and charnel houses - just like the cities in 1632 :) . They have to be evacuated and the people distributed in the B-country to make up for losses there. In the B-country people are ambling around with Geiger counters plotting what's hot and what isn't. At this point life gets grim. We triage the population. One triage is condition. Who cannot be saved and will be left to die, who can only be saved with massive (and probably impractical) effort, those who can be saved with the means available now (the ones who get priority) and who will recover without treatment. On top of this is another triage. The population is prioritized according to need for protection. Pregnant women and children are top, young women of childbearing age second. Young men third, older men fourth, old women bottom. This is ruthless and brutal but its essential for survival. Given a choice between saving a young woman who can bear children and an old woman who cannot, we save the potential mother. We do the same with food. Food and water are checked for radioactivity. The clean food goes to the children and young women, the more contaminated food to the lower priority groups. That old woman? She gets the self-frying steaks. In this situation the US has a terrific advantage over the rest of the world. Its called the Second Amendment. The B-country population is largely armed, sometimes quite heavily. They do exactly what Founding Fathers envisaged - provide a body of armed people whom the local authority can assemble to maintain order. (The Supreme Court may argue that interpretation of the Second Amendment but by now they are doing so with the people who wrote it). In a more general sense, post-holocaust fiction usually has gangs of outlaws preying on the defenseless citizenry. Interestingly that doesn't seem to happen. In disasters people tend to work together rather than against eachother (for example in US urban disasters Hells Angels biker gangs have made sterling contributions to relief efforts using their bikes and riding skills to get emergency supplies through to places others can't). While lawlessness and disorder do occur, the ease of forming a civilian militia (using the term properly here meaning something very much like the Sheriff?s Posse beloved of Westerns) brings that situation under control. Other countries are unlikely to be so fortunate. So we're in a race. Can we rebuild the B-country so that its firstly self-sustaining without the services provided by the A-country while the stockpile of pre-attack assets survive. Can we reconstruct a working society fast enough so that we can feed enough people to keep going? Can the surviving women bear enough children (and survive doing so) to replace the death toll. For the loss won't stop with the attack. Diseases we consider trivial today, measles, chickenpox, influenza, will be mass killers. No medical treatment. Unless your lucky enough to be where some medical facilities have survived, a broken leg that gets infected is likely to be a death sentence. Its possible to look on this world as a 17th century US colonial environment and there's a lot of truth in that. The downside is that the colonial pioneers didn't have the decaying charnel houses of the cities to worry about. This is another key thing to bear in mind; many more people will die after a nuclear exchange and will die in it. Eric was quite correct in making his Doctor fear disease more than any other factor - its a thing that worried everybody looking at post holocaust (and now you know why the US has such well-equipped clinics tucked away in remote places). Winning that race is vital. Lose and we're extinct. The population drops like a stone as disease, radiation and injury take their toll. Then, it should bottom out and start to recover. Teams of older men and infertile women go to the cities to recover what they can. The radiation levels continue to drop. Fortunately we don't have to worry about nuclear winter, that's been largely discredited (the atmospheric models that were used were far too simplistic and the reality seems to be we may actually get a more temperate and less changeable climate out of things - somebody once described it as a Nuclear Autumn). The ozone layer also won't be a problem - it'll regenerate fast enough and the effects of the bombs may actually be beneficial. The ugly side of life continues. Abortion and contraception are likely to be highly illegal. We MUST have those babies. There will be more than enough parents who have lost their own (or have received too high a radiation dose to chance the FLK problem) to look after any that are unwanted. Women are enslaved by their reproductive systems again. Don't like that but there is nothing we can do about it. The social pressure on women to have children will be immense in both material and moral senses. Women who can have children get the best of everything, the cleanest and best food, the most comfortable housing, the most careful protection. Women who can have children but refuse to do so will be social outcasts (and in this sort of society to be an outcast is virtually a death sentence). We're likely to see a situation where women of childbearing age are "protected" by severe restrictions ("don't go outside the house, the radiation may harm your babies" gets abbreviated to "don't go outside") . This is a grim and disturbing picture; we take an old woman out of her house and throw her in the snow to provide shelter for a pregnant mother and her children - then lock her in. Newborn babies obviously damaged by radiation are likely to be killed on the spot. That may or may not be justifiable but I think its inevitable. No electricity, limited medicine, almost no dentistry, no travel - we really are back to the middle ages. The fallout patterns and other things shift so its likely we'll see communities having citadels they can retreat to if necessary. Gasoline runs out cars will go; we're back to horses for transport. Fortunately we don't need factories to make more horses. Justice by the way is run by Judge Lynch. Don't expect to attack a woman and survive. Guns are also a declining asset. As the ammunition runs out we'll be making weapons in blacksmiths shops. Its interesting to see what the designers will come up with, using modern know-how with 17th century assets. We'll probably see bows and arrows come back into fashion - and that means metal body armor. Eventually when conditions permit, our new society moves back to rebuild the A-country. It'll be a long, long time before there is another Federal Government(such things need technology to survive - a calculated guess is that it would take two centuries before a powerful central government evolved again - if it evolves again). Very stark and dark and conceivable 100% correct. Grim AF. Nothing most of us didn't grow up with, I suppose. Now we just have children of our own and a different perspective. I can see one of the nation's largest military bases from my back deck. Not much worry here as I have a front row seat to the fireworks. It would be over before I knew it. Depends on which base. If you live in San Diego next to the naval port and Camp Pendleton, then yeah you're toast. On the other hand, I like your odds a lot better if you're next to one of the large R&D bases, like Edwards or China Lake. |
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Mike_314....If there was communism in the desert, there would soon be a shortage of sand.
Riot Squad Member 2020: we will shit on your pillow Riot stream list on top of page 3047 |
Originally Posted By dmjung: I'm just happy to hear "you're on the paper now.". https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/106650/LeaveTheRange-1737096.jpg View Quote |
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Mike_314....If there was communism in the desert, there would soon be a shortage of sand.
Riot Squad Member 2020: we will shit on your pillow Riot stream list on top of page 3047 |
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Originally Posted By Cecenrse: For the sake of authenticity, I am posting my nursing school graduation photo around 26 y/o (second stint in college. the first I was an accounting major, but hated it and went back to college, lol). I improved with age...for a while, lol. This photo will self destruct in a specific period of time. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/406377/20201127_151912-1737097.jpg View Quote Mom. Army nurse, civilian RN for decades. 1951-2008. |
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Originally Posted By evo7011: This. workout, "work", workout, eat, sleep, that's about all I do lately. Stay focused, ignore the haters, build wealth. That's all you need to do. View Quote That makes you a more physically attractive, desirable and wealthy man who is able to pick and choose from potential mates when that time comes again. Working on one's self is NEVER a bad idea. Just my perspective. It's also the way I chose to live most of my adult life as well. The only problem is you may reach a point of self satisfaction that you begin to feel no one is worthy of your wit and other special qualities. |
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Riot Squad 2020 Magnificent Unicorn
I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery Envy was once considered to be one of the seven deadly sins before it became one of the most admired virtues under its new name, 'social justice. |
Originally Posted By dmjung: I'm just happy to hear "you're on the paper now.". https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/106650/LeaveTheRange-1737096.jpg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By dmjung: Originally Posted By Hollywood_Shooter: Originally Posted By Scoobysmak: I debated on this very topic when I started to purchase a few scopes. For me it would depend on what measuring system I learned to use and most comfortable with. I have always shot in yards and always used inches for the most part. All my scopes are the same and I picked MOA. Not any better or worse but what I knew I could adapt to the quickest. Yeah -- but when you're actually shooting -- no one is going to say "come up 3 inches, do the math and let me know when you're ready to send it again" --- no. They'll just say "come up point three mils" or "come up one moa" or something like that -- depending on the actual range. Nobody gives calls in yards or inches. Least nobody I know. **except for maybe like, "dude - you were like 20-feet over the target, check your dope!" So I've never understood what all the hub bub is about one system or the other and metric v. standard. I'm just happy to hear "you're on the paper now.". https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/106650/LeaveTheRange-1737096.jpg |
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Originally Posted By Mariner82: Anyone in the mil or with a contractor clearance who was screwing a ChiCom spy would lose their clearance most rikki tik and be unemployed as a result. Same standard should apply to Congress. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Mariner82: Originally Posted By Cecenrse: https://nypost.com/2020/12/17/swalwell-evades-reporter-asking-if-hell-resign-over-china-spy-probe/ WASHINGTON Beleaguered Democratic Rep. Eric Swalwell refused to answer questions Thursday on whether he intends to step down from the House Intelligence Committee over his ties to a suspect Swalwell is too stupid to step down. Hope he goes down holding hands with Newsom and Beccera *****Since I'm the only one up at this time, I own this page. Seriously this, we had many reminders, meetings, videos, tests, etc. about the ramifications of even talking to unfriendly entities and accepting gifts. |
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It's not stupid, it's advanced!!
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Originally Posted By dmjung: I'm just happy to hear "you're on the paper now.". https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/106650/LeaveTheRange-1737096.jpg View Quote |
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Riot Squad 2020 Magnificent Unicorn
I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery Envy was once considered to be one of the seven deadly sins before it became one of the most admired virtues under its new name, 'social justice. |
Originally Posted By Socalmopar: This isn't about making money having sex with the corpses of commies you killed is it? Asking for a friend... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Socalmopar: Originally Posted By stoner01: Originally Posted By 36trap: You left off shoot guns. Kill commies. I did not specify how you fucked or made the money.... This isn't about making money having sex with the corpses of commies you killed is it? Asking for a friend... Ahhh, corpse fucking. I don't think we have gone there in this thread. |
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Originally Posted By Cecenrse: I just figured you guys needed someone new. Everybody is likely getting a little tired of, AND ANNOYED BY, me. Much of the time I annoy myself. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Cecenrse: Originally Posted By Seiran: You being a redhead makes you hotter. Also, you're hotter anyway. I just figured you guys needed someone new. Everybody is likely getting a little tired of, AND ANNOYED BY, me. Much of the time I annoy myself. NOPE. Carry on kind Lady, if you would please. |
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