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Posted: 12/15/2022 1:57:27 PM EDT
[#1]
Can somebody with a lot of experience elaborate on how likely it is to ID somebody carrying a radio but not beeing able to identify F/F ?
That seems rather unintuitive to me, my only experience with that kind of ID is on the airsoft field and i am allways interested to learn. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 2:02:29 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I get that and in an ideal world, a 40mm and a couple frags are landing just as the radioman takes my load to his face. In the given scenario with no way to plan that with the rest of the team, that's going to be tricky but if I happen to have a 203, that makes it a little easier. My main point was that if the 203 lands a little off or the dude just gets lucky, he could still get on the radio immediately to call for help. It's already disturbingly close to being too close for a 40mm to arm. I just don't put a lot of faith in smaller explosives doing their job in a scenario where bad guys need to die RFN. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I feel like too many people are placing a lot of faith in 40mm and hand grenades. Personally, I'm shooting the radioman in the fucking face at that distance before any explosives are used to OODA loop the rest of the team. There are too many variables involved with weaker boom booms and I want to make damn sure no cry for help is going out. A head shot at <50 meters is cake. Clustered enemy formation with comms in a choke point call for HE engagement. Additionally, the 40mm serves as a defacto ADDRAC for your team and a contact report for team 2, out of sight but probably not out of ear shot. The radio is the biggest threat to the mission and must be neutralized. Not just the radioman, but the radio. If it's the lead element of a larger formation, congrats on your assignment as the base of fire for your squads future maneuver. I get that and in an ideal world, a 40mm and a couple frags are landing just as the radioman takes my load to his face. In the given scenario with no way to plan that with the rest of the team, that's going to be tricky but if I happen to have a 203, that makes it a little easier. My main point was that if the 203 lands a little off or the dude just gets lucky, he could still get on the radio immediately to call for help. It's already disturbingly close to being too close for a 40mm to arm. I just don't put a lot of faith in smaller explosives doing their job in a scenario where bad guys need to die RFN. "...just as the radioman takes my load to his face." -Cypher214 This might need to be a new signline... 
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Posted: 12/15/2022 2:05:07 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Never heard from anyone with that organizations name. If your not joking feel free to send me any emails that were sent in case we missed them. Most here know I reply to emails within minutes unless I'm at combatives a few hours a week. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Jrh Enterprises didn't offer APC a big enough discount for our group buy, so we are stuck with eyeballs only...  Never heard from anyone with that organizations name. If your not joking feel free to send me any emails that were sent in case we missed them. Most here know I reply to emails within minutes unless I'm at combatives a few hours a week. You are a stellar dude, by reputation and by our short exchange on PMs. In case anyone is wondering, I was teasing him- but this guy jumped to correct having missed something that didn't actually happen. He didn't ask me to say this- he will definitely get my business in the future. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 2:06:52 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To be fair, in the early to mid 90’s we had very little comms within the squad. The main radio was with the LT so we did most everything by hand and arm signals. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: One more thing. Actions on contact should have been briefed during the op order. The whole point of battle drills and briefing is to have plans in place that are second nature to execute when seconds count. Where's the OPORD we would have received before this operation Ben  You think a unit that doesn't have working comms practiced a cohesive battle drill? To be fair, in the early to mid 90’s we had very little comms within the squad. The main radio was with the LT so we did most everything by hand and arm signals. Right. Sometimes it is just a resource driven thing- plenty of units only have radios for the squad leader, platoon commander, and platoon sgt. We had very few radios in my unit in 2003 and 2004. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 2:08:41 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can somebody with a lot of experience elaborate on how likely it is to ID somebody carrying a radio but not beeing able to identify F/F ? That seems rather unintuitive to me, my only experience with that kind of ID is on the airsoft field and i am allways interested to learn. Under 50m in the dark under partial moonlight, you'd be able to see an antenna/bulky pack if they're carrying something like a PRC but making out facial details might be a challenge. Also assume any decently trained group has their faces painted at night, further hampering PID. Assuming my group isn't just ragtag militia running what they brung, it wouldn't be hard to tell "those guys aren't wearing our issued pattern/kit" even at night. If we are a hodgepodge, hopefully we've been together long enough to easily identify each other from a distance. When I'm around a group long enough, I can pick people out from a distance just based on build and gait. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 2:32:50 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are a stellar dude, by reputation and by our short exchange on PMs. In case anyone is wondering, I was teasing him- but this guy jumped to correct having missed something that didn't actually happen. He didn't ask me to say this- he will definitely get my business in the future. No problem, just wanted to be sure we didn't miss something 
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Posted: 12/15/2022 2:36:58 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right. Sometimes it is just a resource driven thing- plenty of units only have radios for the squad leader, platoon commander, and platoon sgt. We had very few radios in my unit in 2003 and 2004. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: One more thing. Actions on contact should have been briefed during the op order. The whole point of battle drills and briefing is to have plans in place that are second nature to execute when seconds count. Where's the OPORD we would have received before this operation Ben You think a unit that doesn't have working comms practiced a cohesive battle drill? To be fair, in the early to mid 90's we had very little comms within the squad. The main radio was with the LT so we did most everything by hand and arm signals. Right. Sometimes it is just a resource driven thing- plenty of units only have radios for the squad leader, platoon commander, and platoon sgt. We had very few radios in my unit in 2003 and 2004. Curious how it is today. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 2:57:09 PM EDT
[#8]
Someone should upload the scenario into that ai chat gpt thing that writes articles, programs. Etc.
I would do it but I don't want to start ww3 with skynet and unleash the terminators |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 3:04:14 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Someone should upload the scenario into that ai chat gpt thing that writes articles, programs. Etc. I would do it but I don't want to start ww3 with skynet and unleash the terminators Even Antifa cells have Baofengs these days. With all of the ATAK based mesh networks running around I would prepare for anyone encountered to have comms. If they don't that's nice but I wouldn't assume they wouldn't. Even the Taliban had radios in 2002 even if they were shitty hand held units. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 3:09:29 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep, early 80s to early 90s. Curious how it is today. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: One more thing. Actions on contact should have been briefed during the op order. The whole point of battle drills and briefing is to have plans in place that are second nature to execute when seconds count. Where's the OPORD we would have received before this operation Ben You think a unit that doesn't have working comms practiced a cohesive battle drill? To be fair, in the early to mid 90's we had very little comms within the squad. The main radio was with the LT so we did most everything by hand and arm signals. Right. Sometimes it is just a resource driven thing- plenty of units only have radios for the squad leader, platoon commander, and platoon sgt. We had very few radios in my unit in 2003 and 2004. Curious how it is today. We had to build PRR units out of the DRMO units in Iraq. That was 2007. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 3:38:54 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can somebody with a lot of experience elaborate on how likely it is to ID somebody carrying a radio but not beeing able to identify F/F ? That seems rather unintuitive to me, my only experience with that kind of ID is on the airsoft field and i am allways interested to learn. According to the text, it sounds like the Company was using the creek as a “hand rail”… that is a terrain feature to help direct movement/maneuver space. The assumption would be that no friendly forces are on the far side of the creek, therefore the other element would be presumed to be enemy. Any friendly adjacent units should have been covered in the OPORD. Units develop SOPs to identify Friend/Foe. For visual ID, it may be reflective tape in a specific spot on the uniform, or IR recognition. A historic example is paratroopers using cricket clackers to ID each other during the Normandy invasion. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 7:27:36 PM EDT
[#12]
Have you made any threads like this that incorporate various kinds of drones and their tactical implications? Anything from small 3d printed quadcopters to optionally manned UTVs with 50cal CROWS. Just conceptualizing how things change with various kinds of robotics.
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Posted: 12/16/2022 11:12:30 AM EDT
[#13]
Mid morning bump for more decisions
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Posted: 12/16/2022 2:40:30 PM EDT
[#14]
Being that I have zero experience in infantry tactics, this has been interesting.
I cheated- read all the responses, thought about it some more. Immediate and violent action is what I'm going with. Assuming my team is responsible for left flank security, there's another team on right flank. If we lay low and let this recon element pass, right flank is likely going to run into them and now I'm down range of friendly fire. Right flank is also going to get a big surprise when they get shot up because we didn't do our job. I have much more control of the outcome if we shoot first then if we let them slide and hope they slip through our line without any exchange in gunfire. |
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Posted: 12/16/2022 2:56:35 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you made any threads like this that incorporate various kinds of drones and their tactical implications? Anything from small 3d printed quadcopters to optionally manned UTVs with 50cal CROWS. Just conceptualizing how things change with various kinds of robotics. Mostly keeping to vetted well used TDGs. I should update some of them, it is true. |
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Posted: 12/16/2022 2:57:52 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Being that I have zero experience in infantry tactics, this has been interesting. I cheated- read all the responses, thought about it some more. Immediate and violent action is what I'm going with. Assuming my team is responsible for left flank security, there's another team on right flank. If we lay low and let this recon element pass, right flank is likely going to run into them and now I'm down range of friendly fire. Right flank is also going to get a big surprise when they get shot up because we didn't do our job. I have much more control of the outcome if we shoot first then if we let them slide and hope they slip through our line without any exchange in gunfire. You're out numbered right now, but if you shoot first you can level the playing field, right? |
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Posted: 12/16/2022 3:16:29 PM EDT
[#17]
SAW and Asst Saw join the team leader in the depression.
Rifleman take cover in the shrubbery. Let them pass. Report up when they are clear. |
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Posted: 12/16/2022 3:25:17 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're out numbered right now, but if you shoot first you can level the playing field, right? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Being that I have zero experience in infantry tactics, this has been interesting. I cheated- read all the responses, thought about it some more. Immediate and violent action is what I'm going with. Assuming my team is responsible for left flank security, there's another team on right flank. If we lay low and let this recon element pass, right flank is likely going to run into them and now I'm down range of friendly fire. Right flank is also going to get a big surprise when they get shot up because we didn't do our job. I have much more control of the outcome if we shoot first then if we let them slide and hope they slip through our line without any exchange in gunfire. You're out numbered right now, but if you shoot first you can level the playing field, right? Barely outnumbered and my team is spread out into what's basically an L-shaped ambush, at night, against a bunched up enemy patrol in the open. I'll take those odds any fucking day. |
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Posted: 12/16/2022 3:26:10 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: SAW and Asst Saw join the team leader in the depression. Rifleman take cover in the shrubbery. Let them pass. Report up when they are clear. Check the distance. Ain't nobody got time fo all dat. |
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Posted: 12/16/2022 3:31:22 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Check the distance. Ain't nobody got time fo all dat. I know, but moving them in those places also sets up a good ambush. Everyone is ready to kill them all if needed, so the first shot drops them all, pretty much. No easy way to set up an ambush, but it's the best move to try and keep the original mission intact. They are the left flank, so hopefully the main body has passed. What do I know? I was a Tanker, at that distance? GUNNER SABOT TROOPS IDENTIFIED UP FIRE, FIRE CANNISTER. We never had cannister though, so I never got to have that fire command... :( Yeah it's overkill, and probably not completely correct, but if they haven't noticed a tank in their path, then the fire ball and the round hitting right in front of them will wake them up. |
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Posted: 12/16/2022 4:21:06 PM EDT
[#21]
Hasty ambush. Kick it off with a hand grenade. You got them in an L-shape. They have to cross the creek to get to you. You got the position and terrain in them. You can’t let them through into the rear or flank of your company. That is why you are there. Once the firing starts the Ast SAW will likely close up on the gunner. That is his job.
They are too close. You are not falling back without them seeing you and likely staying in contact, making close air or arty difficult. I would calling in some arty behind them to keep any additional forces off your back. |
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Posted: 12/16/2022 4:27:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's 30 meters with excellent visibility. If we're not blown already it's because they are blind. Do I have a parachute flare or other distractive/ illumination device that will highlight them to other friendlies in the area without pinpointing my position? Eta: 30 meters with excellent visibility is close enough that somebody is about to start shooting either way and I want to minimize blue on blue while also alerting everyone that I have no communication with where to shoot. Verbal commands are going to go to shit as soon as the first trigger is pulled and I don't have any radios. Always initiate an ambush hasty or otherwise with a casualty causing device. Id use grenades in this case but even your rifle on rock and roll is better than a flare or voice. The SAW and rifle,an can see what is going on so they should be on the same track and ready to rip. |
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Posted: 12/16/2022 4:46:55 PM EDT
[#23]
Given the distances involved you are.going to get compromised and the main attack is going to get blown no matter what.
I would have the SAW gunner and myself initiate a hasty ambush with grenades while the single rifleman I have direct contact with is assigned to target the enemy radio man as soon as we throw grenades. Then have the SAW gunner dump his entire belt I to the enemy as we start pulling back to our rally point. Hope the assistant SAW gunner makes the rally point. Once at the RP start communicating with higher and try take contact with 2nd fire team. We will figure out what to next from there. |
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Posted: 12/16/2022 4:47:55 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're out numbered right now, but if you shoot first you can level the playing field, right? My team being slightly outnumbered, but with the element of surprise, is a secondary concern to the security risk of our left flank. Yes, it's likely these are scouts or lead element of larger enemy force, but if I let them pass, I've not done my job. |
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Posted: 12/16/2022 4:57:11 PM EDT
[#25]
Tag for reading later
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Posted: 12/16/2022 7:36:39 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Check the distance. Ain't nobody got time fo all dat. This is what most folks are missing. You are practically at bayonet range. You really wouldn’t even have two minutes. Sheer luck that your guy spotted them first. And if you or any of your folks move at all it is a certainty they will see you. Look at the troop positioning, if they continue East or turn back South it is a,certainty they will run into your team. You have got to act now and hopefully you have trained your team well enough that they can follow along. There is no time and you are too close to move around undetected. Pump your arm left and right for the hasty ambush arm signal. Give your team a few seconds and let rip. I’d spray a whole mag. Then throw a couple of grenades. Unless I was sure the enemy was wiped out I would sit tight and wait for,the rest of the squad to show up. 
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Posted: 12/16/2022 9:00:04 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is what most folks are missing. You are practically at bayonet range. You really wouldn't even have two minutes. Sheer luck that your guy spotted them first. And if you or any of your folks move at all it is a certainty they will see you. Look at the troop positioning, if they continue East or turn back South it is a,certainty they will run into your team. You have got to act now and hopefully you have trained your team well enough that they can follow along. There is no time and you are too close to move around undetected. Pump your arm left and right for the hasty ambush arm signal. Give your team a few seconds and let rip. I'd spray a whole mag. Then throw a couple of grenades. Unless I was sure the enemy was wiped out I would sit tight and wait for,the rest of the squad to show up. http://www.operationalmedicine.org/TextbookFiles/FMST_20008/Block%205/1201a/image082.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Check the distance. Ain't nobody got time fo all dat. This is what most folks are missing. You are practically at bayonet range. You really wouldn't even have two minutes. Sheer luck that your guy spotted them first. And if you or any of your folks move at all it is a certainty they will see you. Look at the troop positioning, if they continue East or turn back South it is a,certainty they will run into your team. You have got to act now and hopefully you have trained your team well enough that they can follow along. There is no time and you are too close to move around undetected. Pump your arm left and right for the hasty ambush arm signal. Give your team a few seconds and let rip. I'd spray a whole mag. Then throw a couple of grenades. Unless I was sure the enemy was wiped out I would sit tight and wait for,the rest of the squad to show up. http://www.operationalmedicine.org/TextbookFiles/FMST_20008/Block%205/1201a/image082.jpg The only problem I have with this is "spray a whole mag"? What is this, Vietnam? At sub-50m distances, you should be able to take an easy headshot on the first guy and get a few rounds into another before they get their ass in gear and prone out/take cover/return fire, then come the grahnaids. I'm not John Wick but I can at least tag 2 in a group that closely bunched. |
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Posted: 12/17/2022 2:15:01 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only problem I have with this is "spray a whole mag"? What is this, Vietnam? At sub-50m distances, you should be able to take an easy headshot on the first guy and get a few rounds into another before they get their ass in gear and prone out/take cover/return fire, then come the grahnaids. I'm not John Wick but I can at least tag 2 in a group that closely bunched. Hitting a moving target at night from any distance other than contact range is harder than you think. and after the first shot rings out things will happen fast. If you are lucky the enemy will hit the ground but they will do it fast enough that you will never have time to draw a bead on a second target. These are thinking human beings not cardboard targets. They will not stand their wondering they will react. They will return fire if they can. If you are unlucky they are well trained and will respond to your near ambush with an immediate assault through your position. A mag dump is your best option to discourage this. Suppressive Fire is a real thing. Put it to use. If bullets are coming in fast they are more likely to hug the ground and stay there. You need t keep them suppressed until the remainder of your squad shows up. A high volume of fire is more likely to accomplish this. Really I would prefer to initiate with a grenade but I am more worried we will be discovered while I am fumbling for one and I will lose the initiative. I also don’t know exactly where the AG is. I don’t want him to wander up the flank into the line of fire. Or tip off the enemy of our presence prior to ambush initiation. Time is of the essence. But I do like the idea that the first shot should be as well aimed as possible. Just that I am not going to mess around after that. I am not out there alone. I need to give my team time to get into position and the rest of my squad time to turn around and add their weight to the fight. I don’t need to win this all by myself. |
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Posted: 12/17/2022 2:39:00 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only problem I have with this is "spray a whole mag"? What is this, Vietnam? At sub-50m distances, you should be able to take an easy headshot on the first guy and get a few rounds into another before they get their ass in gear and prone out/take cover/return fire, then come the grahnaids. I'm not John Wick but I can at least tag 2 in a group that closely bunched. It makes them think you are a larger element. |
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Posted: 12/17/2022 8:44:06 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hitting a moving target at night from any distance other than contact range is harder than you think. and after the first shot rings out things will happen fast. If you are lucky the enemy will hit the ground but they will do it fast enough that you will never have time to draw a bead on a second target. These are thinking human beings not cardboard targets. They will not stand their wondering they will react. They will return fire if they can. If you are unlucky they are well trained and will respond to your near ambush with an immediate assault through your position. A mag dump is your best option to discourage this. Suppressive Fire is a real thing. Put it to use. If bullets are coming in fast they are more likely to hug the ground and stay there. You need t keep them suppressed until the remainder of your squad shows up. A high volume of fire is more likely to accomplish this. Really I would prefer to initiate with a grenade but I am more worried we will be discovered while I am fumbling for one and I will lose the initiative. I also don't know exactly where the AG is. I don't want him to wander up the flank into the line of fire. Or tip off the enemy of our presence prior to ambush initiation. Time is of the essence. But I do like the idea that the first shot should be as well aimed as possible. Just that I am not going to mess around after that. I am not out there alone. I need to give my team time to get into position and the rest of my squad time to turn around and add their weight to the fight. I don't need to win this all by myself. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The only problem I have with this is "spray a whole mag"? What is this, Vietnam? At sub-50m distances, you should be able to take an easy headshot on the first guy and get a few rounds into another before they get their ass in gear and prone out/take cover/return fire, then come the grahnaids. I'm not John Wick but I can at least tag 2 in a group that closely bunched. Hitting a moving target at night from any distance other than contact range is harder than you think. and after the first shot rings out things will happen fast. If you are lucky the enemy will hit the ground but they will do it fast enough that you will never have time to draw a bead on a second target. These are thinking human beings not cardboard targets. They will not stand their wondering they will react. They will return fire if they can. If you are unlucky they are well trained and will respond to your near ambush with an immediate assault through your position. A mag dump is your best option to discourage this. Suppressive Fire is a real thing. Put it to use. If bullets are coming in fast they are more likely to hug the ground and stay there. You need t keep them suppressed until the remainder of your squad shows up. A high volume of fire is more likely to accomplish this. Really I would prefer to initiate with a grenade but I am more worried we will be discovered while I am fumbling for one and I will lose the initiative. I also don't know exactly where the AG is. I don't want him to wander up the flank into the line of fire. Or tip off the enemy of our presence prior to ambush initiation. Time is of the essence. But I do like the idea that the first shot should be as well aimed as possible. Just that I am not going to mess around after that. I am not out there alone. I need to give my team time to get into position and the rest of my squad time to turn around and add their weight to the fight. I don't need to win this all by myself. Remember you have a SAW gunner and 3 other dudes that should be opening up as soon as you fire your first shot since at least one of them has already seen the enemy. Also, I've shot moving targets in near-darkness quite a few times. My transitions are solid so I'm confident I can get rounds on a second enemy after that first shot. There's a very good chance they're going to freeze as they figure out what the fuck happened for just long enough that I can engage another dude. |
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Posted: 12/17/2022 12:18:23 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Remember you have a SAW gunner and 3 other dudes that should be opening up as soon as you fire your first shot since at least one of them has already seen the enemy. Also, I've shot moving targets in near-darkness quite a few times. My transitions are solid so I'm confident I can get rounds on a second enemy after that first shot. There's a very good chance they're going to freeze as they figure out what the fuck happened for just long enough that I can engage another dude. I’ll not doubt your marksmanship. But they will not freeze. You wouldn’t freeze. Neither will they. And you are initiating. Best to do so in a big way. But we are actually debating fine points. No matter what, chaos is about to enter the room. |
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Posted: 12/17/2022 12:30:11 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ...snip.... Edited to for a smart ass comment Remember. You are a young Marine (cough, spit, cough) infantryman. You will NOT pass up the chance to dump a whole magazine. A mag dump is even better than crayons. If you are extremely mature and disciplined you will dump the mag with more than one trigger pull. |
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Posted: 12/17/2022 6:03:28 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mostly keeping to vetted well used TDGs. I should update some of them, it is true. They don't even need to be designed around published TTPs or issued systems. Just general thought exercises to see what ARFCOM comes up with, since a lot of pre-existing strategic/tactical wisdom about how to best conduct anything from foot patrols to armored assaults gets different when you can put some of your weapon systems on RC cars that drive along in whatever formation you can imagine with your new cheat code in the risk/opportunity dilemma. Not trying to come off like I'm giving you homework. I might make a thread like this myself. |
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Posted: 12/17/2022 8:02:12 PM EDT
[#34]
I had a long winded explanation written out how I would prepare for hasty ambush from the position I already occupied but hope they would pass through my line with out detecting us and possibly not blow the mission just out of the ORP.
Then I reread the scenario one more time. Good thing too, we are left security. Well fuck. If they pass through us, they will be-bop right into the main body, so that's not going to work. Our function in life at this moment is to prevent exactly that from happening. Hasty ambush it is then. By grace or luck my team is already in a good position to engage from, so it looks like it's about to go down. Initiate fire with the SAW. |
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Posted: 12/17/2022 8:09:44 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Always initiate an ambush hasty or otherwise with a casualty causing device. Id use grenades in this case but even your rifle on rock and roll is better than a flare or voice. The SAW and rifle,an can see what is going on so they should be on the same track and ready to rip. I respectfully point out that a parachute flare used in an antipersonnel role will both point out a position and inflict rather nasty burns if contact is made. It's also going to fuck with their OODA loop to be traipsing around in the dark and then get hit with a very bright rocket. As a bonus it may start a fire that might push them from cover. From a practical standpoint it will hopefully backlight them making it easier for my troops to hit them while providing a photonic barrier that may make observing my men and aiming harder for the enemy. |
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Posted: 12/17/2022 8:16:21 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hasty ambush it is then. By grace or luck my team is already in a good position to engage from, so it looks like it's about to go down. Initiate fire with the SAW. Generally speaking, initiating an ambush with an open bolt belt fed is frowned upon. Of the belt fed guns I've carried and fired I'd place the least faith in a SAW. A ka-chunk while trying to kick off an ambush is not ideal. Explosives are the best way to initiate, leader with aimed rifle fire next best, belt fed last. That's how I was taught anyway. One of the SAWs I had was an enormous hunk of shit too so I'm pretty jaded from that as well |
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Posted: 12/17/2022 8:22:21 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I respectfully point out that a parachute flare used in an antipersonnel role will both point out a position and inflict rather nasty burns if contact is made. It's also going to fuck with their OODA loop to be traipsing around in the dark and then get hit with a very bright rocket. As a bonus it may start a fire that might push them from cover. From a practical standpoint it will hopefully backlight them making it easier for my troops to hit them while providing a photonic barrier that may make observing my men and aiming harder for the enemy. ??. Naaa. I saw a guy get hit in the back of the arm with a parachute flare. It left a whoppin bruise. But didn’t even take him out of the training exercise. Well might work if you could hit someone in the head. But have you ever tried to aim one of those things. They have no sights and they twist all over while in flight. I’m sticking with a real for sure casualty producers. Although a flare after that would,not be such a bad idea. This is a fun thread. Brings my grunt days. |
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Posted: 12/17/2022 8:27:56 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Generally speaking, initiating an ambush with an open bolt belt fed is frowned upon. Of the belt fed guns I've carried and fired I'd place the least faith in a SAW. A ka-chunk while trying to kick off an ambush is not ideal. Explosives are the best way to initiate, leader with aimed rifle fire next best, belt fed last. That's how I was taught anyway. One of the SAWs I had was an enormous hunk of shit too so I'm pretty jaded from that as well I can’t disaagree with this as I saw it happen with a M60. Luckily the squad leader was on the ball and kicked off the party with his personal weapon immediately. Almost didn’t notice the chunk. I will say I found the SAW to be a great and reliable weapon. Course, they were all brand new when I was in. ?? |
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Posted: 12/17/2022 8:35:36 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I respectfully point out that a parachute flare used in an antipersonnel role will both point out a position and inflict rather nasty burns if contact is made. It's also going to fuck with their OODA loop to be traipsing around in the dark and then get hit with a very bright rocket. As a bonus it may start a fire that might push them from cover. From a practical standpoint it will hopefully backlight them making it easier for my troops to hit them while providing a photonic barrier that may make observing my men and aiming harder for the enemy.  |
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Posted: 12/17/2022 8:48:04 PM EDT
[#40]
 Attached FileFor reference here is a flare popped off at Cola Warrior after dark. Notice how many people in the picture are covering their eyes. Aiming a rifle is next to impossible if the flare is between you and your target. |
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Posted: 12/17/2022 9:03:26 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Generally speaking, initiating an ambush with an open bolt belt fed is frowned upon. Of the belt fed guns I've carried and fired I'd place the least faith in a SAW. A ka-chunk while trying to kick off an ambush is not ideal. Explosives are the best way to initiate, leader with aimed rifle fire next best, belt fed last. That's how I was taught anyway. One of the SAWs I had was an enormous hunk of shit too so I'm pretty jaded from that as well SAWs were always good on belts but garbage on mags. But I guess to reinforce your point somewhat , on a night range my SAW gunner had one go down with a broken extractor half way through a , you guessed it, near ambush. Nothing like burning your hands trying in vain to get this dude's fucking gun back up in the dark. Good times. |
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Posted: 12/17/2022 11:46:18 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll not doubt your marksmanship. But they will not freeze. You wouldn't freeze. Neither will they. And you are initiating. Best to do so in a big way. But we are actually debating fine points. No matter what, chaos is about to enter the room. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Remember you have a SAW gunner and 3 other dudes that should be opening up as soon as you fire your first shot since at least one of them has already seen the enemy. Also, I've shot moving targets in near-darkness quite a few times. My transitions are solid so I'm confident I can get rounds on a second enemy after that first shot. There's a very good chance they're going to freeze as they figure out what the fuck happened for just long enough that I can engage another dude. I'll not doubt your marksmanship. But they will not freeze. You wouldn't freeze. Neither will they. And you are initiating. Best to do so in a big way. But we are actually debating fine points. No matter what, chaos is about to enter the room. Oh there will be at least a half second hesitation after that first incoming round domes the walkie talkie bro. Nobody reacts instantly to something completely unexpected. Even the most experienced dudes have to process what they just heard before they snap into action. I'm not talking about a total freeze up or a long pause unless they're totally new to combat, just long enough for me to transition to target 2. |
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Posted: 12/18/2022 12:33:47 AM EDT
[#43]
With regard to the parachute flare. Don’t. Just don’t.
Infantrymen are trained to seek cover the instant they hear the whoosh or pop of the flare. If you initiate with such you will lose your chance to inflict ruthless casualties upon an unsuspecting and helpless enemy. If you fire it horizontally it will skip along the ground and who knows where it could end up. It takes two hands to fire a parachute flare. They cannot be aimed with any degree of accuracy. You will have to put your rifle down to fire it. By the time you pick it back up the bad guys will be hugging the ground in the shadows. The guy with the radio will be reporting back. The arty will be coming soon. |
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Posted: 12/18/2022 11:31:43 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're speaking from experience. However, there is always the outlier. When I was an instructor at the schoolhouse we had someone get so lost during night land nav (no NVGs) that they ended up on the opposite side of a major highway about a kilometer outside the training area. He was a second lieutenant...who was a prior enlisted sergeant.  Chesty puller could pin on a butter bar and would regularly be lost… |
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Posted: 12/18/2022 11:55:40 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can somebody with a lot of experience elaborate on how likely it is to ID somebody carrying a radio but not beeing able to identify F/F ? That seems rather unintuitive to me, my only experience with that kind of ID is on the airsoft field and i am allways interested to learn. In the night field problems I can remember, if you have a radio on your back with an antenna and I can see it 30 meters away, we are talking, 90-100% illume. Full moon and you are standing in a field. Firstly, a radio isnt put on your back, it will be in a normal backpack, so if I can see your handset (telephony looking device) mounted on your shoulder, and antenna, it is freaking BRIGHT. Or I have NODs. At 30 meters you might hear a radio, or see the movement of a hand to the side of someones face...radio like activity.  If I can see that, I can see your helmets, and weapons, like AK47 vs M4. Chance of frat is zero. IF I can see that and you cant see me at all, you are blind and dumb, and my obviously you are going to get shot. If you can see radios you have seconds before they see you, and this isnt really much more then chance contact. you have seconds, IMHO, to find a tree and get behind cover. Id say, maybe a normal night, average illume, if my NODs are on. Generally a big backpack radio isn't squad equipment, FWIW.  Very doable with NVGs...but its pretty hard to confirm nobody on the other time has NVGs, and in the year of our lord 2022 someone probably has. You cant assume otherwise. |
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