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Posted: 12/28/2023 4:40:44 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's quite the conclusion. There's no evidence, circumstantial or otherwise pointing to the fact that the US orchestrated the uprising. There's a lot to suggest it was a grassroots uprising though. Once again, you accuse me of what you're doing. No amount of circumstantial evidence or direct evidence will convince you that it was a grassroots uprising. You're already said as much, anything the government says is a lie, therefore the opposite is true. Still, you assume I'm biased but my life would be a lot simpler and easier if I bought into the Russian narrative. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Progress. We went from "the government obviously did it" to "we can't know one way or the other" I heard an interesting statistic from a lawyer, friend of mine, most people are convicted based on multiple pieces of circumstantial evidences that lead to the average person saying that is beyond a reasonable doubt, and in most cases, there is no such thing as direct evidence. What the many of you are demonstrating is there are no combination of multiple circumstantial events would lead you to saying, something happened. Some because they are the equivalent of OJ jurors who will not allow their blackness to let them make that conclusion, and some won't make come to that conclusion unless there was a videotape of it happening and confessions That's quite the conclusion. There's no evidence, circumstantial or otherwise pointing to the fact that the US orchestrated the uprising. There's a lot to suggest it was a grassroots uprising though. Once again, you accuse me of what you're doing. No amount of circumstantial evidence or direct evidence will convince you that it was a grassroots uprising. You're already said as much, anything the government says is a lie, therefore the opposite is true. Still, you assume I'm biased but my life would be a lot simpler and easier if I bought into the Russian narrative. I don’t feel like finding it again but within the last two years, I posted a link to the open societies webpage where they discuss their involvement in the 2014 event |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 4:41:31 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can't remember what magazine I read it in, but there was an actual interview with Baker and he was asked about that very question. His words were yes it happened but they should've got it in a treaty if they really wanted us to stick to it. I'm just a big believer in all the facts, being known, and people making their decisions based on that WHAT happened? Even still, it doesn't change the other points I made. Yeah...your second statement is a departure from your "patterns" comment earlier, or are you finally understanding that basing YOUR decisions solely around making the opposite decisions of people you disagree with often is not logical? |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 4:45:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You argued with me for pages when I said exactly what you just said. Every time I present that argument in that way the Ukiebros have an entire litter of kittens.  You like to argue and have a highly biased slant, so do I, so that's fair, welcome to being human I guess.  BTW, our government has lied in the past, continues to lie, and it's possible we had something to do with the orange revolution.  If we didn't we fucked up badly enough that it appeared we had something to do with it, which in practical effect is the same thing. Uh yeah, man, that's not exactly what you said but okay, feel free to find it and prove me wrong, I'm not going to do it. It's possible I misunderstood what you meant, or more likely you did a terrible job making your own case (   ) I do like to argue, and as I've said, my bias would actually be the opposite of what you all think. At any rate, I never said it's impossible. Sure, it's possible- but there's a huge distinction between perhaps giving some advice to leadership within the uprising and orchestrating the whole thing...and there's a lot of people making that claim with zero evidence. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 4:46:49 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't feel like finding it again but within the last two years, I posted a link to the open societies webpage where they discuss their involvement in the 2014 event Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Progress. We went from "the government obviously did it" to "we can't know one way or the other" I heard an interesting statistic from a lawyer, friend of mine, most people are convicted based on multiple pieces of circumstantial evidences that lead to the average person saying that is beyond a reasonable doubt, and in most cases, there is no such thing as direct evidence. What the many of you are demonstrating is there are no combination of multiple circumstantial events would lead you to saying, something happened. Some because they are the equivalent of OJ jurors who will not allow their blackness to let them make that conclusion, and some won't make come to that conclusion unless there was a videotape of it happening and confessions That's quite the conclusion. There's no evidence, circumstantial or otherwise pointing to the fact that the US orchestrated the uprising. There's a lot to suggest it was a grassroots uprising though. Once again, you accuse me of what you're doing. No amount of circumstantial evidence or direct evidence will convince you that it was a grassroots uprising. You're already said as much, anything the government says is a lie, therefore the opposite is true. Still, you assume I'm biased but my life would be a lot simpler and easier if I bought into the Russian narrative. I don't feel like finding it again but within the last two years, I posted a link to the open societies webpage where they discuss their involvement in the 2014 event Well there's a ton of info about it on the last few pages maybe you should read. I'm sure it won't change your mind though. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 5:05:44 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Uh yeah, man, that's not exactly what you said but okay, feel free to find it and prove me wrong, I'm not going to do it. It's possible I misunderstood what you meant, or more likely you did a terrible job making your own case ( ) I do like to argue, and as I've said, my bias would actually be the opposite of what you all think. At any rate, I never said it's impossible. Sure, it's possible- but there's a huge distinction between perhaps giving some advice to leadership within the uprising and orchestrating the whole thing...and there's a lot of people making that claim with zero evidence. I honestly don't feel like putting forth the effort, but unless I'm off my meds I know we've had this discussion more than once over the last 2 years. Be that as it may, I hope we get serious about Ukraine. Stomp some Ruskies, or make a deal that provides real protection for what's left of Ukraine. I genuinely feel like they have been abused by the west over the course of several administrations. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 5:07:18 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Be that as it may, I hope we get serious about Ukraine. Stomp some Ruskies, or make a deal that provides real protection for what's left of Ukraine. I genuinely feel like they have been abused by the west over the course of several administrations. Now this we agree on. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 5:09:55 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure, it's possible- but there's a huge distinction between perhaps giving some advice to leadership within the uprising and orchestrating the whole thing...and there's a lot of people making that claim with zero evidence. This was a grassroots revolt against a Russian tyrant, that the USA and a whole host of western democratic societies stood with the people putting their welfare and life on the line. The people who criticize this "support" are the ones who would also criticize usa.gov if we told the Ukrainians "stand down and accept your Russian masters". |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 5:15:13 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The problem is, no one can live with a nuanced opinion anymore. I said 1.5 years ago if we didn't support (defined much as you stated above as advice and solidarity) the Ukrainians in their revolt against a Russian stooge president, I would be asking "why didn't we? Why did we let another country become like Belarus?" I would also add that doesn't mean we orchestrated it AT ALL or that this wouldn't have happened without our involvement. The problem is, one side will take "we stood with the Ukrainians" to mean the US is whole-heartedly responsible and STARTED this. That leads to the natural reaction from the other side to not want to acknowledge anything, because there is only black and white and nothing in between. This was a grassroots revolt against a Russian tyrant, that the USA and a whole host of western democratic societies stood with the people putting their welfare and life on the line. The people who criticize this "support" are the ones who would also criticize usa.gov if we told the Ukrainians "stand down and accept your Russian masters". Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Sure, it's possible- but there's a huge distinction between perhaps giving some advice to leadership within the uprising and orchestrating the whole thing...and there's a lot of people making that claim with zero evidence. This was a grassroots revolt against a Russian tyrant, that the USA and a whole host of western democratic societies stood with the people putting their welfare and life on the line. The people who criticize this "support" are the ones who would also criticize usa.gov if we told the Ukrainians "stand down and accept your Russian masters". Exactly this |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 5:36:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly this Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sure, it's possible- but there's a huge distinction between perhaps giving some advice to leadership within the uprising and orchestrating the whole thing...and there's a lot of people making that claim with zero evidence. This was a grassroots revolt against a Russian tyrant, that the USA and a whole host of western democratic societies stood with the people putting their welfare and life on the line. The people who criticize this "support" are the ones who would also criticize usa.gov if we told the Ukrainians "stand down and accept your Russian masters". Exactly this As you often say context matters. The context of that decision was the Obama administration. Of the hundreds if not thousands of foreign policy decisions they made. Can you site one that was actually was made with intent of making the United States stronger? Or was this the 1 in 1000 event, they did right? |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 5:40:03 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As you often say context matters. The context of that decision was the Obama administration. Of the hundreds if not thousands of foreign policy decisions they made. Can you site one that was actually was made with intent of making the United States stronger? Or was this the 1 in 1000 event, they did right? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sure, it's possible- but there's a huge distinction between perhaps giving some advice to leadership within the uprising and orchestrating the whole thing...and there's a lot of people making that claim with zero evidence. This was a grassroots revolt against a Russian tyrant, that the USA and a whole host of western democratic societies stood with the people putting their welfare and life on the line. The people who criticize this "support" are the ones who would also criticize usa.gov if we told the Ukrainians "stand down and accept your Russian masters". Exactly this As you often say context matters. The context of that decision was the Obama administration. Of the hundreds if not thousands of foreign policy decisions they made. Can you site one that was actually was made with intent of making the United States stronger? Or was this the 1 in 1000 event, they did right? That's not the context of the decision, that's the administration that was in office at the time. I'm not going to play this game with you, it's stupid. "Obama was a dope, therefore everything he ever did was wrong, including this, prove me wrong". Nah dude, not doing it. It's tiresome and a stupid argument. Make an actual argument and we can debate. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 5:44:25 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's not the context of the decision, that's the administration that was in office at the time. I'm not going to play this game with you, it's stupid. "Obama was a dope, therefore everything he ever did was wrong, including this, prove me wrong". Nah dude, not doing it. It's tiresome and a stupid argument. Make an actual argument and we can debate. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sure, it's possible- but there's a huge distinction between perhaps giving some advice to leadership within the uprising and orchestrating the whole thing...and there's a lot of people making that claim with zero evidence. This was a grassroots revolt against a Russian tyrant, that the USA and a whole host of western democratic societies stood with the people putting their welfare and life on the line. The people who criticize this "support" are the ones who would also criticize usa.gov if we told the Ukrainians "stand down and accept your Russian masters". Exactly this As you often say context matters. The context of that decision was the Obama administration. Of the hundreds if not thousands of foreign policy decisions they made. Can you site one that was actually was made with intent of making the United States stronger? Or was this the 1 in 1000 event, they did right? That's not the context of the decision, that's the administration that was in office at the time. I'm not going to play this game with you, it's stupid. "Obama was a dope, therefore everything he ever did was wrong, including this, prove me wrong". Nah dude, not doing it. It's tiresome and a stupid argument. Make an actual argument and we can debate. Not really, here is debate with someone who has such a “rose colored glasses view of life”. I’m just pointing out a fact. Your view of life prevent you from seeing trends and making logical conclusions. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 5:51:16 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not really, here is debate with someone who has such a "rose colored glasses view of life". I'm just pointing out a fact. Your view of life prevent you from seeing trends and making logical conclusions. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sure, it's possible- but there's a huge distinction between perhaps giving some advice to leadership within the uprising and orchestrating the whole thing...and there's a lot of people making that claim with zero evidence. This was a grassroots revolt against a Russian tyrant, that the USA and a whole host of western democratic societies stood with the people putting their welfare and life on the line. The people who criticize this "support" are the ones who would also criticize usa.gov if we told the Ukrainians "stand down and accept your Russian masters". Exactly this As you often say context matters. The context of that decision was the Obama administration. Of the hundreds if not thousands of foreign policy decisions they made. Can you site one that was actually was made with intent of making the United States stronger? Or was this the 1 in 1000 event, they did right? That's not the context of the decision, that's the administration that was in office at the time. I'm not going to play this game with you, it's stupid. "Obama was a dope, therefore everything he ever did was wrong, including this, prove me wrong". Nah dude, not doing it. It's tiresome and a stupid argument. Make an actual argument and we can debate. Not really, here is debate with someone who has such a "rose colored glasses view of life". I'm just pointing out a fact. Your view of life prevent you from seeing trends and making logical conclusions. This is not debate, this is you challenging me to sort through every decision Obama made to try to prove everything he ever did was bad. It's absurd, and I'm not going to play your ridiculous game. How about this, you made the claim, you prove everything he ever did was bad. Sort through every decision he made in office and give me a one liner as to why it's bad. Once you do that I'll concede defeat to your vastly superior intellect. You can email me if that's easier. You're not pointing out facts, you're making weird associations (rose colored view of life  you clearly know nothing about me), and now AGAIN trying to claim that patterns = facts despite the fact we covered this recently.
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Posted: 12/28/2023 5:53:28 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is not debate, this is you challenging me to sort through every decision Obama made to try to prove everything he ever did was bad. It's absurd, and I'm not going to play your ridiculous game. How about this, you made the claim, you prove everything he ever did was bad. Sort through every decision he made in office and give me a one liner as to why it's bad. Once you do that I'll concede defeat to your vastly superior intellect. You can email me if that's easier. You're not pointing out facts, you're making weird associations (rose colored view of life you clearly know nothing about me), and now AGAIN trying to claim that patterns = facts despite the fact we covered this recently.Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sure, it's possible- but there's a huge distinction between perhaps giving some advice to leadership within the uprising and orchestrating the whole thing...and there's a lot of people making that claim with zero evidence. This was a grassroots revolt against a Russian tyrant, that the USA and a whole host of western democratic societies stood with the people putting their welfare and life on the line. The people who criticize this "support" are the ones who would also criticize usa.gov if we told the Ukrainians "stand down and accept your Russian masters". Exactly this As you often say context matters. The context of that decision was the Obama administration. Of the hundreds if not thousands of foreign policy decisions they made. Can you site one that was actually was made with intent of making the United States stronger? Or was this the 1 in 1000 event, they did right? That's not the context of the decision, that's the administration that was in office at the time. I'm not going to play this game with you, it's stupid. "Obama was a dope, therefore everything he ever did was wrong, including this, prove me wrong". Nah dude, not doing it. It's tiresome and a stupid argument. Make an actual argument and we can debate. Not really, here is debate with someone who has such a "rose colored glasses view of life". I'm just pointing out a fact. Your view of life prevent you from seeing trends and making logical conclusions. This is not debate, this is you challenging me to sort through every decision Obama made to try to prove everything he ever did was bad. It's absurd, and I'm not going to play your ridiculous game. How about this, you made the claim, you prove everything he ever did was bad. Sort through every decision he made in office and give me a one liner as to why it's bad. Once you do that I'll concede defeat to your vastly superior intellect. You can email me if that's easier. You're not pointing out facts, you're making weird associations (rose colored view of life you clearly know nothing about me), and now AGAIN trying to claim that patterns = facts despite the fact we covered this recently.Like I said, rose colored glasses It should be easy to prove me wrong list the foreign policy that was made with the intent of making the United States stronger |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 5:56:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: Was the 2014 ouster of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych a U.S.-backed coup or was it a grassroots uprising? I realize it could be less than clear cut, like the 1973 ouster of Salvador Allende in Chile in which the U.S. CIA participated but the Allende was also hugely unpopular. So, I guess the question is was the U.S. involved in Ukraine, and to the tipping point? It was the point in time I became aware of Victoria Nuland. Watch Winter On Fire free on Netflix and get back to us.. Spoiler alert ; Ukrainian citizens put their bare bodies against sniper rifles and murderous riot police to free their country. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 5:59:03 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is not debate, this is you challenging me to sort through every decision Obama made to try to prove everything he ever did was bad. It's absurd, and I'm not going to play your ridiculous game. How about this, you made the claim, you prove everything he ever did was bad. Sort through every decision he made in office and give me a one liner as to why it's bad. Once you do that I'll concede defeat to your vastly superior intellect. You can email me if that's easier. You're not pointing out facts, you're making weird associations (rose colored view of life you clearly know nothing about me), and now AGAIN trying to claim that patterns = facts despite the fact we covered this recently.
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Posted: 12/28/2023 6:00:06 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like I said, rose colored glasses It should be easy to prove me wrong list the foreign policy that was made with the intent of making the United States stronger Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sure, it's possible- but there's a huge distinction between perhaps giving some advice to leadership within the uprising and orchestrating the whole thing...and there's a lot of people making that claim with zero evidence. This was a grassroots revolt against a Russian tyrant, that the USA and a whole host of western democratic societies stood with the people putting their welfare and life on the line. The people who criticize this "support" are the ones who would also criticize usa.gov if we told the Ukrainians "stand down and accept your Russian masters". Exactly this As you often say context matters. The context of that decision was the Obama administration. Of the hundreds if not thousands of foreign policy decisions they made. Can you site one that was actually was made with intent of making the United States stronger? Or was this the 1 in 1000 event, they did right? That's not the context of the decision, that's the administration that was in office at the time. I'm not going to play this game with you, it's stupid. "Obama was a dope, therefore everything he ever did was wrong, including this, prove me wrong". Nah dude, not doing it. It's tiresome and a stupid argument. Make an actual argument and we can debate. Not really, here is debate with someone who has such a "rose colored glasses view of life". I'm just pointing out a fact. Your view of life prevent you from seeing trends and making logical conclusions. This is not debate, this is you challenging me to sort through every decision Obama made to try to prove everything he ever did was bad. It's absurd, and I'm not going to play your ridiculous game. How about this, you made the claim, you prove everything he ever did was bad. Sort through every decision he made in office and give me a one liner as to why it's bad. Once you do that I'll concede defeat to your vastly superior intellect. You can email me if that's easier. You're not pointing out facts, you're making weird associations (rose colored view of life you clearly know nothing about me), and now AGAIN trying to claim that patterns = facts despite the fact we covered this recently.Like I said, rose colored glasses It should be easy to prove me wrong list the foreign policy that was made with the intent of making the United States stronger It should be easy to prove me wrong, list every foreign policy decision he made and explain how it made us weaker. Including this one, be sure to actually define the decision that was too while you're at it. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 6:02:30 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is not debate, this is you challenging me to sort through every decision Obama made to try to prove everything he ever did was bad. It's absurd, and I'm not going to play your ridiculous game. How about this, you made the claim, you prove everything he ever did was bad. Sort through every decision he made in office and give me a one liner as to why it's bad. Once you do that I'll concede defeat to your vastly superior intellect. You can email me if that's easier. You're not pointing out facts, you're making weird associations (rose colored view of life you clearly know nothing about me), and now AGAIN trying to claim that patterns = facts despite the fact we covered this recently.https://y.yarn.co/7a00a46f-ea54-4aa0-aeaa-c45d5494442d_text.gif This is literally the first time anyone has ever said this to me
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Posted: 12/28/2023 6:09:22 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Watch Winter On Fire free on Netflix and get back to us.. Spoiler alert ; Ukrainian citizens put their bare bodies against sniper rifles and murderous riot police to free their country. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 6:13:03 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is literally the first time anyone has ever said this to me Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is not debate, this is you challenging me to sort through every decision Obama made to try to prove everything he ever did was bad. It's absurd, and I'm not going to play your ridiculous game. How about this, you made the claim, you prove everything he ever did was bad. Sort through every decision he made in office and give me a one liner as to why it's bad. Once you do that I'll concede defeat to your vastly superior intellect. You can email me if that's easier. You're not pointing out facts, you're making weird associations (rose colored view of life you clearly know nothing about me), and now AGAIN trying to claim that patterns = facts despite the fact we covered this recently.https://y.yarn.co/7a00a46f-ea54-4aa0-aeaa-c45d5494442d_text.gif This is literally the first time anyone has ever said this to me The patience of Saint? No more an inability to see patterns and make logical conclusions based on the patterns |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 6:19:25 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The patience of Saint? No more an inability to see patterns and make logical conclusions based on the patterns Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is not debate, this is you challenging me to sort through every decision Obama made to try to prove everything he ever did was bad. It's absurd, and I'm not going to play your ridiculous game. How about this, you made the claim, you prove everything he ever did was bad. Sort through every decision he made in office and give me a one liner as to why it's bad. Once you do that I'll concede defeat to your vastly superior intellect. You can email me if that's easier. You're not pointing out facts, you're making weird associations (rose colored view of life you clearly know nothing about me), and now AGAIN trying to claim that patterns = facts despite the fact we covered this recently.https://y.yarn.co/7a00a46f-ea54-4aa0-aeaa-c45d5494442d_text.gif This is literally the first time anyone has ever said this to me The patience of Saint? No more an inability to see patterns and make logical conclusions based on the patterns That's not what you're doing, as I've said before, but if you're just going to repeat yourself then so am I. It should be easy to prove me wrong, list every foreign policy decision he made and explain how it made us weaker. Including this one, be sure to actually define the decision that was too while you're at it. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 6:27:16 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's not what you're doing, as I've said before, but if you're just going to repeat yourself then so am I. It should be easy to prove me wrong, list every foreign policy decision he made and explain how it made us weaker. Including this one, be sure to actually define the decision that was too while you're at it. Bro he knows the metal composition of the drive band on a 155 mm arty shell. Therefore he knows everything and is all wise and knowing. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 6:33:14 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's not what you're doing, as I've said before, but if you're just going to repeat yourself then so am I. It should be easy to prove me wrong, list every foreign policy decision he made and explain how it made us weaker. Including this one, be sure to actually define the decision that was too while you're at it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is not debate, this is you challenging me to sort through every decision Obama made to try to prove everything he ever did was bad. It's absurd, and I'm not going to play your ridiculous game. How about this, you made the claim, you prove everything he ever did was bad. Sort through every decision he made in office and give me a one liner as to why it's bad. Once you do that I'll concede defeat to your vastly superior intellect. You can email me if that's easier. You're not pointing out facts, you're making weird associations (rose colored view of life you clearly know nothing about me), and now AGAIN trying to claim that patterns = facts despite the fact we covered this recently.https://y.yarn.co/7a00a46f-ea54-4aa0-aeaa-c45d5494442d_text.gif This is literally the first time anyone has ever said this to me The patience of Saint? No more an inability to see patterns and make logical conclusions based on the patterns That's not what you're doing, as I've said before, but if you're just going to repeat yourself then so am I. It should be easy to prove me wrong, list every foreign policy decision he made and explain how it made us weaker. Including this one, be sure to actually define the decision that was too while you're at it. You guys are use to echo chamber, and don’t like people pointing out counter factuals Remember when you told me “Ukrainians don’t deserve” after I posted a historical fact. That is when I learned you are more about emotion than fact. It is ironic when you talk about logic, when are emotionally driven. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 6:36:54 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bro he knows the metal composition of the drive band on a 155 mm arty shell. Therefore he knows everything and is all wise and knowing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That's not what you're doing, as I've said before, but if you're just going to repeat yourself then so am I. It should be easy to prove me wrong, list every foreign policy decision he made and explain how it made us weaker. Including this one, be sure to actually define the decision that was too while you're at it. Bro he knows the metal composition of the drive band on a 155 mm arty shell. Therefore he knows everything and is all wise and knowing. Well at least I am known for facts, try it instead of emotion sometime |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 6:39:50 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You guys are use to echo chamber, and don't like people pointing out counter factuals Remember when you told me "Ukrainians don't deserve" after I posted a historical fact. That is when I learned you are more about emotion than fact. It is ironic when you talk about logic, when are emotionally driven. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is not debate, this is you challenging me to sort through every decision Obama made to try to prove everything he ever did was bad. It's absurd, and I'm not going to play your ridiculous game. How about this, you made the claim, you prove everything he ever did was bad. Sort through every decision he made in office and give me a one liner as to why it's bad. Once you do that I'll concede defeat to your vastly superior intellect. You can email me if that's easier. You're not pointing out facts, you're making weird associations (rose colored view of life you clearly know nothing about me), and now AGAIN trying to claim that patterns = facts despite the fact we covered this recently.https://y.yarn.co/7a00a46f-ea54-4aa0-aeaa-c45d5494442d_text.gif This is literally the first time anyone has ever said this to me The patience of Saint? No more an inability to see patterns and make logical conclusions based on the patterns That's not what you're doing, as I've said before, but if you're just going to repeat yourself then so am I. It should be easy to prove me wrong, list every foreign policy decision he made and explain how it made us weaker. Including this one, be sure to actually define the decision that was too while you're at it. You guys are use to echo chamber, and don't like people pointing out counter factuals Remember when you told me "Ukrainians don't deserve" after I posted a historical fact. That is when I learned you are more about emotion than fact. It is ironic when you talk about logic, when are emotionally driven. What facts are you talking about? I have seen very few from you. Remember when you claimed that because democrats said something, the opposite must be true? That is when I learned you are more about emotion than fact. It is ironic when you talk about logic, when are emotionally driven. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 6:40:08 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well at least I am known for facts, try it instead of emotion sometime 
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Posted: 12/28/2023 6:40:23 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well at least I am known for facts, try it instead of emotion sometime Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: That's not what you're doing, as I've said before, but if you're just going to repeat yourself then so am I. It should be easy to prove me wrong, list every foreign policy decision he made and explain how it made us weaker. Including this one, be sure to actually define the decision that was too while you're at it. Bro he knows the metal composition of the drive band on a 155 mm arty shell. Therefore he knows everything and is all wise and knowing. Well at least I am known for facts, try it instead of emotion sometime On the topic of artillery, sure. On other topics...not so much. You do what you claim others are doing. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 6:43:14 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What facts are you talking about? I have seen very few from you. Remember when you claimed that because democrats said something, the opposite must be true? That is when I learned you are more about emotion than fact. It is ironic when you talk about logic, when are emotionally driven. 
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Posted: 12/28/2023 6:47:21 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What facts are you talking about? I have seen very few from you. Remember when you claimed that because democrats said something, the opposite must be true? That is when I learned you are more about emotion than fact. It is ironic when you talk about logic, when are emotionally driven. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is not debate, this is you challenging me to sort through every decision Obama made to try to prove everything he ever did was bad. It's absurd, and I'm not going to play your ridiculous game. How about this, you made the claim, you prove everything he ever did was bad. Sort through every decision he made in office and give me a one liner as to why it's bad. Once you do that I'll concede defeat to your vastly superior intellect. You can email me if that's easier. You're not pointing out facts, you're making weird associations (rose colored view of life you clearly know nothing about me), and now AGAIN trying to claim that patterns = facts despite the fact we covered this recently.https://y.yarn.co/7a00a46f-ea54-4aa0-aeaa-c45d5494442d_text.gif This is literally the first time anyone has ever said this to me The patience of Saint? No more an inability to see patterns and make logical conclusions based on the patterns That's not what you're doing, as I've said before, but if you're just going to repeat yourself then so am I. It should be easy to prove me wrong, list every foreign policy decision he made and explain how it made us weaker. Including this one, be sure to actually define the decision that was too while you're at it. You guys are use to echo chamber, and don't like people pointing out counter factuals Remember when you told me "Ukrainians don't deserve" after I posted a historical fact. That is when I learned you are more about emotion than fact. It is ironic when you talk about logic, when are emotionally driven. What facts are you talking about? I have seen very few from you. Remember when you claimed that because democrats said something, the opposite must be true? That is when I learned you are more about emotion than fact. It is ironic when you talk about logic, when are emotionally driven. I am pretty sure I said “if Biden said the sky was blue, I would walk outside and double check” Which equates to, I double check anything he says because even obvious things are doubtful if he said it. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 6:48:33 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It should be easy to prove me wrong, list every foreign policy decision he made and explain how it made us weaker. Including this one, be sure to actually define the decision that was too while you're at it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sure, it's possible- but there's a huge distinction between perhaps giving some advice to leadership within the uprising and orchestrating the whole thing...and there's a lot of people making that claim with zero evidence. This was a grassroots revolt against a Russian tyrant, that the USA and a whole host of western democratic societies stood with the people putting their welfare and life on the line. The people who criticize this "support" are the ones who would also criticize usa.gov if we told the Ukrainians "stand down and accept your Russian masters". Exactly this As you often say context matters. The context of that decision was the Obama administration. Of the hundreds if not thousands of foreign policy decisions they made. Can you site one that was actually was made with intent of making the United States stronger? Or was this the 1 in 1000 event, they did right? That's not the context of the decision, that's the administration that was in office at the time. I'm not going to play this game with you, it's stupid. "Obama was a dope, therefore everything he ever did was wrong, including this, prove me wrong". Nah dude, not doing it. It's tiresome and a stupid argument. Make an actual argument and we can debate. Not really, here is debate with someone who has such a "rose colored glasses view of life". I'm just pointing out a fact. Your view of life prevent you from seeing trends and making logical conclusions. This is not debate, this is you challenging me to sort through every decision Obama made to try to prove everything he ever did was bad. It's absurd, and I'm not going to play your ridiculous game. How about this, you made the claim, you prove everything he ever did was bad. Sort through every decision he made in office and give me a one liner as to why it's bad. Once you do that I'll concede defeat to your vastly superior intellect. You can email me if that's easier. You're not pointing out facts, you're making weird associations (rose colored view of life you clearly know nothing about me), and now AGAIN trying to claim that patterns = facts despite the fact we covered this recently.Like I said, rose colored glasses It should be easy to prove me wrong list the foreign policy that was made with the intent of making the United States stronger It should be easy to prove me wrong, list every foreign policy decision he made and explain how it made us weaker. Including this one, be sure to actually define the decision that was too while you're at it. When one's entire "argument" is layer upon layer of strawmen, red herrings, tu quoques, false equivalencies, ad hominems, or other such points that combine to come across as some sort of junior high "informal fallacies" presentation, it seems (to me, anyway) that observer is compelled to make one of two conclusions. The first conclusion is that said poster lacks the intellect to make a sound argument. Alternatively, the second conclusion is that said poster is not arguing in good faith. If you can think of an alternative explanation, I'm all ears. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 6:49:23 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What facts are you talking about? I have seen very few from you. Remember when you claimed that because democrats said something, the opposite must be true? That is when I learned you are more about emotion than fact. It is ironic when you talk about logic, when are emotionally driven. https://y.yarn.co/74bdecdd-8738-410b-9c89-a1f66f346adc_text.gif Wow, an echo chamber of an echo chamber Maybe as an American you should have an American flag up and not that of two other nations, but that is just me I put America first. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 6:49:48 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's not what you're doing, as I've said before, but if you're just going to repeat yourself then so am I. It should be easy to prove me wrong, list every foreign policy decision he made and explain how it made us weaker. Including this one, be sure to actually define the decision that was too while you're at it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is not debate, this is you challenging me to sort through every decision Obama made to try to prove everything he ever did was bad. It's absurd, and I'm not going to play your ridiculous game. How about this, you made the claim, you prove everything he ever did was bad. Sort through every decision he made in office and give me a one liner as to why it's bad. Once you do that I'll concede defeat to your vastly superior intellect. You can email me if that's easier. You're not pointing out facts, you're making weird associations (rose colored view of life you clearly know nothing about me), and now AGAIN trying to claim that patterns = facts despite the fact we covered this recently.https://y.yarn.co/7a00a46f-ea54-4aa0-aeaa-c45d5494442d_text.gif This is literally the first time anyone has ever said this to me The patience of Saint? No more an inability to see patterns and make logical conclusions based on the patterns That's not what you're doing, as I've said before, but if you're just going to repeat yourself then so am I. It should be easy to prove me wrong, list every foreign policy decision he made and explain how it made us weaker. Including this one, be sure to actually define the decision that was too while you're at it. It's actually really simple. You two look at the same thing from completely opposite ends of the evaluation spectrum. Both have merit. Your position has consistently been, "Has this made things worse for US?" to which your answer is "No." His has consistently been, "Has this made things better for the US?", to which his answer is "No." Then you list examples of things turning out well, and he lists examples of things turning out poorly. Then we're all subjected to you two having a dick measuring contest over who is more right. Nothing has changed in the 2ish years you both have been going at this. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 6:49:52 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am pretty sure I said "if Biden said the sky was blue, I would walk outside and double check" Which equates to, I double check anything he says because even obvious things are doubtful if he said it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is not debate, this is you challenging me to sort through every decision Obama made to try to prove everything he ever did was bad. It's absurd, and I'm not going to play your ridiculous game. How about this, you made the claim, you prove everything he ever did was bad. Sort through every decision he made in office and give me a one liner as to why it's bad. Once you do that I'll concede defeat to your vastly superior intellect. You can email me if that's easier. You're not pointing out facts, you're making weird associations (rose colored view of life you clearly know nothing about me), and now AGAIN trying to claim that patterns = facts despite the fact we covered this recently.https://y.yarn.co/7a00a46f-ea54-4aa0-aeaa-c45d5494442d_text.gif This is literally the first time anyone has ever said this to me The patience of Saint? No more an inability to see patterns and make logical conclusions based on the patterns That's not what you're doing, as I've said before, but if you're just going to repeat yourself then so am I. It should be easy to prove me wrong, list every foreign policy decision he made and explain how it made us weaker. Including this one, be sure to actually define the decision that was too while you're at it. You guys are use to echo chamber, and don't like people pointing out counter factuals Remember when you told me "Ukrainians don't deserve" after I posted a historical fact. That is when I learned you are more about emotion than fact. It is ironic when you talk about logic, when are emotionally driven. What facts are you talking about? I have seen very few from you. Remember when you claimed that because democrats said something, the opposite must be true? That is when I learned you are more about emotion than fact. It is ironic when you talk about logic, when are emotionally driven. I am pretty sure I said "if Biden said the sky was blue, I would walk outside and double check" Which equates to, I double check anything he says because even obvious things are doubtful if he said it. And I'm pretty sure in addition to that you've actually made the claim that my position is wrong because it happens to coincide with the idiotic left. No, actually, I'm not pretty sure. I'm 100% sure. Nevermind that I reached these conclusions without any input from the POTATUS. For someone that claims they make logical decisions, you bring a LOT of feelings based illogical arguments to the table, ones you refuse to back up with any facts whatsoever. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 6:50:05 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: On the topic of artillery, sure. On other topics...not so much. You do what you claim others are doing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That's not what you're doing, as I've said before, but if you're just going to repeat yourself then so am I. It should be easy to prove me wrong, list every foreign policy decision he made and explain how it made us weaker. Including this one, be sure to actually define the decision that was too while you're at it. Bro he knows the metal composition of the drive band on a 155 mm arty shell. Therefore he knows everything and is all wise and knowing. Well at least I am known for facts, try it instead of emotion sometime On the topic of artillery, sure. On other topics...not so much. You do what you claim others are doing. It's all about feels with you. Facts don't care about your feelings |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 6:52:30 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And I'm pretty sure in addition to that you've actually made the claim that my position is wrong because it happens to coincide with the idiotic left. No, actually, I'm not pretty sure. I'm 100% sure. Nevermind that I reached these conclusions without any input from the POTATUS. For someone that claims they make logical decisions, you bring a LOT of feelings based illogical arguments to the table, ones you refuse to back up with any facts whatsoever. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is not debate, this is you challenging me to sort through every decision Obama made to try to prove everything he ever did was bad. It's absurd, and I'm not going to play your ridiculous game. How about this, you made the claim, you prove everything he ever did was bad. Sort through every decision he made in office and give me a one liner as to why it's bad. Once you do that I'll concede defeat to your vastly superior intellect. You can email me if that's easier. You're not pointing out facts, you're making weird associations (rose colored view of life you clearly know nothing about me), and now AGAIN trying to claim that patterns = facts despite the fact we covered this recently.https://y.yarn.co/7a00a46f-ea54-4aa0-aeaa-c45d5494442d_text.gif This is literally the first time anyone has ever said this to me The patience of Saint? No more an inability to see patterns and make logical conclusions based on the patterns That's not what you're doing, as I've said before, but if you're just going to repeat yourself then so am I. It should be easy to prove me wrong, list every foreign policy decision he made and explain how it made us weaker. Including this one, be sure to actually define the decision that was too while you're at it. You guys are use to echo chamber, and don't like people pointing out counter factuals Remember when you told me "Ukrainians don't deserve" after I posted a historical fact. That is when I learned you are more about emotion than fact. It is ironic when you talk about logic, when are emotionally driven. What facts are you talking about? I have seen very few from you. Remember when you claimed that because democrats said something, the opposite must be true? That is when I learned you are more about emotion than fact. It is ironic when you talk about logic, when are emotionally driven. I am pretty sure I said "if Biden said the sky was blue, I would walk outside and double check" Which equates to, I double check anything he says because even obvious things are doubtful if he said it. And I'm pretty sure in addition to that you've actually made the claim that my position is wrong because it happens to coincide with the idiotic left. No, actually, I'm not pretty sure. I'm 100% sure. Nevermind that I reached these conclusions without any input from the POTATUS. For someone that claims they make logical decisions, you bring a LOT of feelings based illogical arguments to the table, ones you refuse to back up with any facts whatsoever. What policy of President Biden put forward that actually put the U.S. in a better strategic position? |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 6:52:34 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When one's entire "argument" is layer upon layer of strawmen, red herrings, tu quoques, false equivalencies, ad hominems, or other such points that combine to come across as some sort of junior high "informal fallacies" presentation, it seems (to me, anyway) that observer is compelled to make one of two conclusions. The first conclusion is that said poster lacks the intellect to make a sound argument. Alternatively, the second conclusion is that said poster is not arguing in good faith. If you can think of an alternative explanation, I'm all ears. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sure, it's possible- but there's a huge distinction between perhaps giving some advice to leadership within the uprising and orchestrating the whole thing...and there's a lot of people making that claim with zero evidence. This was a grassroots revolt against a Russian tyrant, that the USA and a whole host of western democratic societies stood with the people putting their welfare and life on the line. The people who criticize this "support" are the ones who would also criticize usa.gov if we told the Ukrainians "stand down and accept your Russian masters". Exactly this As you often say context matters. The context of that decision was the Obama administration. Of the hundreds if not thousands of foreign policy decisions they made. Can you site one that was actually was made with intent of making the United States stronger? Or was this the 1 in 1000 event, they did right? That's not the context of the decision, that's the administration that was in office at the time. I'm not going to play this game with you, it's stupid. "Obama was a dope, therefore everything he ever did was wrong, including this, prove me wrong". Nah dude, not doing it. It's tiresome and a stupid argument. Make an actual argument and we can debate. Not really, here is debate with someone who has such a "rose colored glasses view of life". I'm just pointing out a fact. Your view of life prevent you from seeing trends and making logical conclusions. This is not debate, this is you challenging me to sort through every decision Obama made to try to prove everything he ever did was bad. It's absurd, and I'm not going to play your ridiculous game. How about this, you made the claim, you prove everything he ever did was bad. Sort through every decision he made in office and give me a one liner as to why it's bad. Once you do that I'll concede defeat to your vastly superior intellect. You can email me if that's easier. You're not pointing out facts, you're making weird associations (rose colored view of life you clearly know nothing about me), and now AGAIN trying to claim that patterns = facts despite the fact we covered this recently.Like I said, rose colored glasses It should be easy to prove me wrong list the foreign policy that was made with the intent of making the United States stronger It should be easy to prove me wrong, list every foreign policy decision he made and explain how it made us weaker. Including this one, be sure to actually define the decision that was too while you're at it. When one's entire "argument" is layer upon layer of strawmen, red herrings, tu quoques, false equivalencies, ad hominems, or other such points that combine to come across as some sort of junior high "informal fallacies" presentation, it seems (to me, anyway) that observer is compelled to make one of two conclusions. The first conclusion is that said poster lacks the intellect to make a sound argument. Alternatively, the second conclusion is that said poster is not arguing in good faith. If you can think of an alternative explanation, I'm all ears. No you're right on, and I've said as much. I know without a doubt he is smart, therefore the only real option is that he's not arguing in good faith. See his "echo chamber" comment above- nevermind the fact that XD and I can argue and disagree and remain civil, with no name calling, and have an actual discussion (which I'm grateful for) and perhaps not agree on everything, yet still share differing opinions in good faith. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 6:53:41 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow, an echo chamber of an echo chamber Maybe as an American you should have an American flag up and not that of two other nations, but that is just me I put America first. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: What facts are you talking about? I have seen very few from you. Remember when you claimed that because democrats said something, the opposite must be true? That is when I learned you are more about emotion than fact. It is ironic when you talk about logic, when are emotionally driven. https://y.yarn.co/74bdecdd-8738-410b-9c89-a1f66f346adc_text.gif Wow, an echo chamber of an echo chamber Maybe as an American you should have an American flag up and not that of two other nations, but that is just me I put America first. Weak ron. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 6:55:26 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And you literally use nothing but SJW tactics in every post. It's all about feels with you. Facts don't care about your feelings Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That's not what you're doing, as I've said before, but if you're just going to repeat yourself then so am I. It should be easy to prove me wrong, list every foreign policy decision he made and explain how it made us weaker. Including this one, be sure to actually define the decision that was too while you're at it. Bro he knows the metal composition of the drive band on a 155 mm arty shell. Therefore he knows everything and is all wise and knowing. Well at least I am known for facts, try it instead of emotion sometime On the topic of artillery, sure. On other topics...not so much. You do what you claim others are doing. It's all about feels with you. Facts don't care about your feelings Every fact I've posted you've ignored, meanwhile you make up your own false ones. You continually make this nonsense SJW claim then go on to comepletely fabricate your own "facts". Try harder. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 6:55:32 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No you're right on, and I've said as much. I know without a doubt he is smart, therefore the only real option is that he's not arguing in good faith. See his "echo chamber" comment above- nevermind the fact that XD and I can argue and disagree and remain civil, with no name calling, and have an actual discussion (which I'm grateful for) and perhaps not agree on everything, yet still share differing opinions in good faith. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sure, it's possible- but there's a huge distinction between perhaps giving some advice to leadership within the uprising and orchestrating the whole thing...and there's a lot of people making that claim with zero evidence. This was a grassroots revolt against a Russian tyrant, that the USA and a whole host of western democratic societies stood with the people putting their welfare and life on the line. The people who criticize this "support" are the ones who would also criticize usa.gov if we told the Ukrainians "stand down and accept your Russian masters". Exactly this As you often say context matters. The context of that decision was the Obama administration. Of the hundreds if not thousands of foreign policy decisions they made. Can you site one that was actually was made with intent of making the United States stronger? Or was this the 1 in 1000 event, they did right? That's not the context of the decision, that's the administration that was in office at the time. I'm not going to play this game with you, it's stupid. "Obama was a dope, therefore everything he ever did was wrong, including this, prove me wrong". Nah dude, not doing it. It's tiresome and a stupid argument. Make an actual argument and we can debate. Not really, here is debate with someone who has such a "rose colored glasses view of life". I'm just pointing out a fact. Your view of life prevent you from seeing trends and making logical conclusions. This is not debate, this is you challenging me to sort through every decision Obama made to try to prove everything he ever did was bad. It's absurd, and I'm not going to play your ridiculous game. How about this, you made the claim, you prove everything he ever did was bad. Sort through every decision he made in office and give me a one liner as to why it's bad. Once you do that I'll concede defeat to your vastly superior intellect. You can email me if that's easier. You're not pointing out facts, you're making weird associations (rose colored view of life you clearly know nothing about me), and now AGAIN trying to claim that patterns = facts despite the fact we covered this recently.Like I said, rose colored glasses It should be easy to prove me wrong list the foreign policy that was made with the intent of making the United States stronger It should be easy to prove me wrong, list every foreign policy decision he made and explain how it made us weaker. Including this one, be sure to actually define the decision that was too while you're at it. When one's entire "argument" is layer upon layer of strawmen, red herrings, tu quoques, false equivalencies, ad hominems, or other such points that combine to come across as some sort of junior high "informal fallacies" presentation, it seems (to me, anyway) that observer is compelled to make one of two conclusions. The first conclusion is that said poster lacks the intellect to make a sound argument. Alternatively, the second conclusion is that said poster is not arguing in good faith. If you can think of an alternative explanation, I'm all ears. No you're right on, and I've said as much. I know without a doubt he is smart, therefore the only real option is that he's not arguing in good faith. See his "echo chamber" comment above- nevermind the fact that XD and I can argue and disagree and remain civil, with no name calling, and have an actual discussion (which I'm grateful for) and perhaps not agree on everything, yet still share differing opinions in good faith. When someone tells me, “you have no right to say that” When I post a historical fact, it takes a lot for me to ever take them serious again. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 6:57:47 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Weak ron. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What facts are you talking about? I have seen very few from you. Remember when you claimed that because democrats said something, the opposite must be true? That is when I learned you are more about emotion than fact. It is ironic when you talk about logic, when are emotionally driven. Telling, you think it is weak to put your country first. https://y.yarn.co/74bdecdd-8738-410b-9c89-a1f66f346adc_text.gif Wow, an echo chamber of an echo chamber Maybe as an American you should have an American flag up and not that of two other nations, but that is just me I put America first. Weak ron. Telling, you think it is weak to put your country first |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 6:58:15 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What policy of President Biden put forward that actually put the U.S. in a better strategic position? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is not debate, this is you challenging me to sort through every decision Obama made to try to prove everything he ever did was bad. It's absurd, and I'm not going to play your ridiculous game. How about this, you made the claim, you prove everything he ever did was bad. Sort through every decision he made in office and give me a one liner as to why it's bad. Once you do that I'll concede defeat to your vastly superior intellect. You can email me if that's easier. You're not pointing out facts, you're making weird associations (rose colored view of life you clearly know nothing about me), and now AGAIN trying to claim that patterns = facts despite the fact we covered this recently.https://y.yarn.co/7a00a46f-ea54-4aa0-aeaa-c45d5494442d_text.gif This is literally the first time anyone has ever said this to me The patience of Saint? No more an inability to see patterns and make logical conclusions based on the patterns That's not what you're doing, as I've said before, but if you're just going to repeat yourself then so am I. It should be easy to prove me wrong, list every foreign policy decision he made and explain how it made us weaker. Including this one, be sure to actually define the decision that was too while you're at it. You guys are use to echo chamber, and don't like people pointing out counter factuals Remember when you told me "Ukrainians don't deserve" after I posted a historical fact. That is when I learned you are more about emotion than fact. It is ironic when you talk about logic, when are emotionally driven. What facts are you talking about? I have seen very few from you. Remember when you claimed that because democrats said something, the opposite must be true? That is when I learned you are more about emotion than fact. It is ironic when you talk about logic, when are emotionally driven. I am pretty sure I said "if Biden said the sky was blue, I would walk outside and double check" Which equates to, I double check anything he says because even obvious things are doubtful if he said it. And I'm pretty sure in addition to that you've actually made the claim that my position is wrong because it happens to coincide with the idiotic left. No, actually, I'm not pretty sure. I'm 100% sure. Nevermind that I reached these conclusions without any input from the POTATUS. For someone that claims they make logical decisions, you bring a LOT of feelings based illogical arguments to the table, ones you refuse to back up with any facts whatsoever. What policy of President Biden put forward that actually put the U.S. in a better strategic position? Jesus, here we go again. I didn't play the Obama game with you and now you're trying to play the same bullshit with Biden. I'll play for a second though- Does the fact that our 2nd biggest enemy is now severely less capable put the US in a better strategic position? |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 6:59:23 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When someone tells me, "you have no right to say that" When I post a historical fact, it takes a lot for me to ever take them serious again. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sure, it's possible- but there's a huge distinction between perhaps giving some advice to leadership within the uprising and orchestrating the whole thing...and there's a lot of people making that claim with zero evidence. This was a grassroots revolt against a Russian tyrant, that the USA and a whole host of western democratic societies stood with the people putting their welfare and life on the line. The people who criticize this "support" are the ones who would also criticize usa.gov if we told the Ukrainians "stand down and accept your Russian masters". Exactly this As you often say context matters. The context of that decision was the Obama administration. Of the hundreds if not thousands of foreign policy decisions they made. Can you site one that was actually was made with intent of making the United States stronger? Or was this the 1 in 1000 event, they did right? That's not the context of the decision, that's the administration that was in office at the time. I'm not going to play this game with you, it's stupid. "Obama was a dope, therefore everything he ever did was wrong, including this, prove me wrong". Nah dude, not doing it. It's tiresome and a stupid argument. Make an actual argument and we can debate. Not really, here is debate with someone who has such a "rose colored glasses view of life". I'm just pointing out a fact. Your view of life prevent you from seeing trends and making logical conclusions. This is not debate, this is you challenging me to sort through every decision Obama made to try to prove everything he ever did was bad. It's absurd, and I'm not going to play your ridiculous game. How about this, you made the claim, you prove everything he ever did was bad. Sort through every decision he made in office and give me a one liner as to why it's bad. Once you do that I'll concede defeat to your vastly superior intellect. You can email me if that's easier. You're not pointing out facts, you're making weird associations (rose colored view of life you clearly know nothing about me), and now AGAIN trying to claim that patterns = facts despite the fact we covered this recently.Like I said, rose colored glasses It should be easy to prove me wrong list the foreign policy that was made with the intent of making the United States stronger It should be easy to prove me wrong, list every foreign policy decision he made and explain how it made us weaker. Including this one, be sure to actually define the decision that was too while you're at it. When one's entire "argument" is layer upon layer of strawmen, red herrings, tu quoques, false equivalencies, ad hominems, or other such points that combine to come across as some sort of junior high "informal fallacies" presentation, it seems (to me, anyway) that observer is compelled to make one of two conclusions. The first conclusion is that said poster lacks the intellect to make a sound argument. Alternatively, the second conclusion is that said poster is not arguing in good faith. If you can think of an alternative explanation, I'm all ears. No you're right on, and I've said as much. I know without a doubt he is smart, therefore the only real option is that he's not arguing in good faith. See his "echo chamber" comment above- nevermind the fact that XD and I can argue and disagree and remain civil, with no name calling, and have an actual discussion (which I'm grateful for) and perhaps not agree on everything, yet still share differing opinions in good faith. When someone tells me, "you have no right to say that" When I post a historical fact, it takes a lot for me to ever take them serious again. I literally have never said that before so when someone tells me that I said "you have no right to say that" when I never did then it takes a lot for me to ever take them serious again. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 7:00:58 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Telling, you think it is weak to put your country first Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What facts are you talking about? I have seen very few from you. Remember when you claimed that because democrats said something, the opposite must be true? That is when I learned you are more about emotion than fact. It is ironic when you talk about logic, when are emotionally driven. Telling, you think it is weak to put your country first. https://y.yarn.co/74bdecdd-8738-410b-9c89-a1f66f346adc_text.gif Wow, an echo chamber of an echo chamber Maybe as an American you should have an American flag up and not that of two other nations, but that is just me I put America first. Weak ron. Telling, you think it is weak to put your country first Be better Ron. You're argument with him is weak, not putting America first. First you use dead Marines to try to claim you have special insight, then you claim other's opinions are invalid because of flags in a bio, then you deliberately misstate my comment. There was a point I respected you even if I disagreed with you, but that's fading fast. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 7:01:09 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Jesus, here we go again. I didn't play the Obama game with you and now you're trying to play the same bullshit with Biden. I'll play for a second though- Does the fact that our 2nd biggest enemy is now severely less capable put the US in a better strategic position? I said strategic, which means in the grand scheme of things, those actions have made us weaker startehic position compared to our primary enemy rategic position compared to our primary enemy Because strategic means way and means, your position is borrowing money to affect that change has put us in a better position? Don’t most empires fall because of the debasing of the currency? |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 7:02:56 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I literally have never said that before so when someone tells me that I said "you have no right to say that" when I never did then it takes a lot for me to ever take them serious again. this is, we’re having a photographic memory is kind of is important. The topic of the discussion that led to you saying that was people justifying Joseph Stalin and his persecution of the Ukrainians. I simply pointed out that Stalin was not a Russian, and that it was very Soviet of him doing that not just a Russian thing. This is actually the second time you’ve denied doing that. The first time after you realize you had done that you said it was very woman like for me to have remembered you doing it. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 7:04:37 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I said strategic, which means in the grand scheme of things, those actions have made us weaker startehic position compared to our primary enemy rategic position compared to our primary enemy Because strategic means way and means, your position is borrowing money to affect that change has put us in a better position? Don't most empires fall because of the debasing of the currency? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Jesus, here we go again. I didn't play the Obama game with you and now you're trying to play the same bullshit with Biden. I'll play for a second though- Does the fact that our 2nd biggest enemy is now severely less capable put the US in a better strategic position? I said strategic, which means in the grand scheme of things, those actions have made us weaker startehic position compared to our primary enemy rategic position compared to our primary enemy Because strategic means way and means, your position is borrowing money to affect that change has put us in a better position? Don't most empires fall because of the debasing of the currency? Yes, strategic. I understand what that means. I'm not going to answer your loaded question, instead I'll state this: Weakening our 2nd most dangerous enemy is a good thing, not only for that simple reason but also because our primary enemy is watching our reaction. You can disagree, thats fine, but my position is not unreasonable. Once AGAIN, if you're concern was money you'd be making a much bigger stink over the TRILLIONS spent on covid, the 50 billion we spend EVERY YEAR on foreign aid, and less so on 75bln for Ukraine over the last 2 years. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 7:08:13 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: this is, we're having a photographic memory is kind of is important. The topic of the discussion that led to you saying that was people justifying Joseph Stalin and his persecution of the Ukrainians. I simply pointed out that Stalin was not a Russian, and that it was very Soviet of him doing that not just a Russian thing. This is actually the second time you've denied doing that. The first time after you realize you had done that you said it was very woman like for me to have remembered you doing it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I literally have never said that before so when someone tells me that I said "you have no right to say that" when I never did then it takes a lot for me to ever take them serious again. this is, we're having a photographic memory is kind of is important. The topic of the discussion that led to you saying that was people justifying Joseph Stalin and his persecution of the Ukrainians. I simply pointed out that Stalin was not a Russian, and that it was very Soviet of him doing that not just a Russian thing. This is actually the second time you've denied doing that. The first time after you realize you had done that you said it was very woman like for me to have remembered you doing it. I never said you "have no right to say that" I may have said you have no right to tell Ukrainians they shouldn't hate Russians for the holodomor though. There's some important context there that you left out. The fact that you have a photographic memory only makes your subtle twisting of statements and omission of context all the more telling. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 7:11:00 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow, an echo chamber of an echo chamber Maybe as an American you should have an American flag up and not that of two other nations, but that is just me I put America first. Is that better for you? I will let you get back to being a know it all now. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 7:31:12 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bro he knows the metal composition of the drive band on a 155 mm arty shell. Therefore he knows everything and is all wise and knowing. Ron doesn't know everything (because he is human like me, you, and everyone else) but he is spot on with artillery. He can be wrong but he's a good asset to have around. Why don't we just let this one go guys?  |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 8:18:43 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: you mean the ones from Baker who said it did happen, but since it wasn’t in the actual treaty, it didn’t matter? You keep pushing this but the reality is the Russian leadership at the time thought otherwise. Putin is revising his own country's understanding of the talks to justify an invasion. His people weren't even there. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 9:24:53 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This was a grassroots revolt against a Russian tyrant, Quote HistoryQuoted: This was a grassroots revolt against a Russian tyrant, Quoted: Sure, it's possible- but there's a huge distinction between perhaps giving some advice to leadership within the uprising and orchestrating the whole thing...and there's a lot of people making that claim with zero evidence. I'm pretty sure the protesters didn't cause Yanukovych to flee. It was the arrest warrant issued for "mass murder of peaceful citizens". The protests did get ugly, but only after the police shot and killed many peaceful protesters. Yanukovych had to flee to Russia because he was a wanted fugitive in Ukraine. |
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