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Posted: 4/28/2019 2:44:32 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And nobody even paid attention to my comment about the Albigensian Crusades (initiated by the Pope) that resulted in a few hundred thousand non Muslims being killed. 
Not to mention the fact that after they were done dispatching the Muslim invaders, the benevolent Christians turned their attention to the Inquisitions. Oh well. I know enough that Christianity GOOD. Crusades GOOD. Christianity = Western Civilization. You disagree, then you are SJW Muslim lover who HATE western civilization! You bad!!! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: Also... have you heard of the sacking of Constantinople by Crusaders? Any thoughts as to why that's left out? Would you consider the Spanish Reconquista a "Crusade?" Why or why not? There is no universal, or even general, consensus on what campaigns should be properly titled as "crusades." Different schools of crusade scholarship have different criteria for it. The situation is not aided by the fact that "crusade" is not a term that even existed at the time.
Not to mention the fact that after they were done dispatching the Muslim invaders, the benevolent Christians turned their attention to the Inquisitions. Oh well. I know enough that Christianity GOOD. Crusades GOOD. Christianity = Western Civilization. You disagree, then you are SJW Muslim lover who HATE western civilization! You bad!!! |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 3:27:02 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For the TLDR crowd: Violence is not a Christian doctrine. Violence perpetrated in the name of Christianity is heretical, no excuse or justification for it. The church did shitloads of un-Christian things, and to my limited historical knowledge, this is what led to the Reformation. People were able to read the word of the Lord when the Bible was translated and printed. As has been mentioned in this thread, for centuries, it was not something the common man could access and read.... and they came to the conclusion that "wait, Jesus didn't want us doing this shit!" (I could be inaccurate on the history, causes and degree to which the common person's knowledge of the Bible contributed to the Reformation) Anyway, I always ask the following two questions when someone tries to pull the "yeah, well Crusades" or whatever: ONE - How many people did Jesus Christ kill? (none. zero. zilch.) TWO - How many people did Muhammad kill? (hundreds if not thousands by his own hand, with his own sword) Anyone who pulls the "Christians did evil things in the past!" as a retort to what followers of Islam have always done and continue to do is deflecting. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 5:13:34 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Show me where the Christian justification for murder, torture, forced conversion and war is in the Bible. I must have missed it, surely you can enlighten me. It would be logically inconsistent with the teachings of Jesus to do anything violent against others. On the other hand--- Violence IS logically consistent with the teachings of Muhammad. Islam is a cancer. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 6:29:53 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tragic was the West's lack of strategic vision. They should have fought Islam on it's own terms - land area held. Instead they spent their energy on symbolic deep penetration missions with no staying power. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The crusades ended when the Christians grew tired of killing so many Muslims. Very tragic. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 6:45:10 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For the TLDR crowd: Violence is not a Christian doctrine. Violence perpetrated in the name of Christianity is heretical, no excuse or justification for it. All sorts of Christian thinkers from Augustine to Aquinas to Pope John Paul II have discussed the proper restraints in wartime. The first limitations on violence in warfare were innovations of the Catholic Church. Now, the distinction to be raised was one raised in the wake of the 30 Years War, where violence in its own name became its own self-reinforcing dynamic. So, to be a Bohr_Adam or 2minkey and play the "all is equal" game is at best lazy thinking. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 6:48:30 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The real issue is Jesus never taught to hate or kill those that persecute you. HE explicitly taught to love and forgive your enemies. It would be logically inconsistent with the teachings of Jesus to do anything violent against others. On the other hand--- Violence IS logically consistent with the teachings of Muhammad. Islam is a cancer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Show me where the Christian justification for murder, torture, forced conversion and war is in the Bible. I must have missed it, surely you can enlighten me. It would be logically inconsistent with the teachings of Jesus to do anything violent against others. On the other hand--- Violence IS logically consistent with the teachings of Muhammad. Islam is a cancer. Know why you're not kissing a carpet and barking to mecca 5 times a day? May have a lot to with Wallachians making 20000 muslim Ottoman lawn ornaments. Or The Hammer kicking the shit out of Abd al-Rahman al-Ghafiqi and his raiding army at Tours. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 7:08:44 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, but the twist is if Christians didn't bring the pain to them throughout history there would be no Christians left. Know why you're not kissing a carpet and barking to mecca 5 times a day? May have a lot to with Wallachians making 20000 muslim Ottoman lawn ornaments. Or The Hammer kicking the shit out of Abd al-Rahman al-Ghafiqi and his raiding army at Tours. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 7:25:39 AM EDT
[#8]
He’s got another good video about the Quran and the differences between the Medina and Mecca. And what a true follower is, and that there are no moderate Muslims if they follow the Medina correctly.
I can’t seem to find it, but it would be great if someone has it and posts it up. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 7:31:15 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're forgetting Jan Sobieski and a few others. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Yeah, but the twist is if Christians didn't bring the pain to them throughout history there would be no Christians left. Know why you're not kissing a carpet and barking to mecca 5 times a day? May have a lot to with Wallachians making 20000 muslim Ottoman lawn ornaments. Or The Hammer kicking the shit out of Abd al-Rahman al-Ghafiqi and his raiding army at Tours. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 7:35:52 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He’s got another good video about the Quran and the differences between the Medina and Mecca. And what a true follower is, and that there are no moderate Muslims if they follow the Medina correctly. I can’t seem to find it, but it would be great if someone has it and posts it up.  Islamic Attack on Chattanooga: Why It Happened and What to Do Another good one.  Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 7:59:36 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is the video you seek.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmyGC96ClcE
Another good one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef1LCIvF6eUQuote HistoryQuoted:
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He’s got another good video about the Quran and the differences between the Medina and Mecca. And what a true follower is, and that there are no moderate Muslims if they follow the Medina correctly. I can’t seem to find it, but it would be great if someone has it and posts it up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmyGC96ClcE
Another good one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef1LCIvF6eU |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 8:00:43 AM EDT
[#12]
old school taggage
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Posted: 4/28/2019 8:54:35 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Uh...Just War doctrine has been around for about forever, and is both Christian and details the proper means for dispensing violence. All sorts of Christian thinkers from Augustine to Aquinas to Pope John Paul II have discussed the proper restraints in wartime. The first limitations on violence in warfare were innovations of the Catholic Church. Now, the distinction to be raised was one raised in the wake of the 30 Years War, where violence in its own name became its own self-reinforcing dynamic. So, to be a Bohr_Adam or 2minkey and play the "all is equal" game is at best lazy thinking. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: For the TLDR crowd: Violence is not a Christian doctrine. Violence perpetrated in the name of Christianity is heretical, no excuse or justification for it. All sorts of Christian thinkers from Augustine to Aquinas to Pope John Paul II have discussed the proper restraints in wartime. The first limitations on violence in warfare were innovations of the Catholic Church. Now, the distinction to be raised was one raised in the wake of the 30 Years War, where violence in its own name became its own self-reinforcing dynamic. So, to be a Bohr_Adam or 2minkey and play the "all is equal" game is at best lazy thinking. I can see why people don’t mind Warner’s bullshit. Dishonestly is misrepresentation in the name of whatever it is you want to rally behind is par for the course. Now, forgive me, I want to read more posts about how killing and war is un-Christian from people who will call for genocide in another thread tomorrow in the name of defending Christianity. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 9:11:36 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your one problem is staying on subject. The video made no mention of the Koran. It instead claimed to compare like with like regarding the concepts of Crusades and Jihad. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: So, you’re asking me to watch this video, cross reference it against my understanding of things, and break down where “Dr. Bill” is once again misleading or outright wrong... again. I’ve spent way too much time doing just that related to previous crap from that man since he first because a thing to bother, or think it worth continuing. The burden of proof is on him to tell me why he’s an authority - and he’s failed miserable. His continued irrelevant tossing about of his “PhD” status doesn’t help. There are plenty of legitimate historians and what not who’ve written plenty on these subjects. Get you history however you see fit. Even plenty of videos on YouTube, no doubt, but, they don’t hit the right tone with a certain crowd here, so they wallow in low rating while as “Dr. Bill” gets threads started.  Then again, neither is Warner. But, he tells you things that are in line with your prejudices, so there you go. Let the circle jerk continue. Don’t let me get in the way. What do I know though, I’m just a lowly, bigoted ‘teener.  Do you except the initial “Dr. Bill” premise that the way to compare “Jihad” and “Crusade” as a concept is to look at the locations and numbers of battled done in those names? Do you believe those which he plotted are chosen and depicted using the same criteria? Have you studied the rise of other world civilizations? How would you react to some Leftist rambling about the evil United States by citing the Papal crusades, the Spanish conquest of the Americas, the Indian Removal Act (which he would insist was a “genocide,” naturally) and President Bush’s use of the term Crusade, thus linking different States, contexts, motivations, and eras into one forced narrative in order to make a polemic point and riled up a bunch of idiots prone to anti-Western and anti- American bias? Would you: 1) demand anyone point out which particular historical event in the rabble was inaccurate? 2) suggest that maybe some context would help? Also... have you heard of the sacking of Constantinople by Crusaders? Any thoughts as to why that’s left out? Would you consider the Spanish Reconquista a “Crusade?” Why or why not? First, I’m not defending the video or “Dr. Bill”, I’ve neither seen this current video, or to my knowledge, any of Dr. Bill’s other videos. My points were mainly in response to the posts in this thread about the subject, rather than the video in the OP. I should have made that clear. Secondly, and I know I’ll get flamed for this, but the Crusades were not something that could be justified with biblical scripture. They were outside the realm of biblical doctrine. I understand why they did it, but history would have perhaps judged them less harshly had they not chosen to use Christianity as not only a motivation, but also a justification. It was neither. In a nutshell, that’s the post I’m trying to make. You can’t justify the Crusades with biblical doctrine, but you can justify jihad with the teachings of the koran. The double standard and unwillingness to criticize anything islam is not only tiresome, it’s counterproductive. We’re often told by leftists that unless you’re a scholar you can’t criticize islam, yet those same people have no problem pointing out how violent the Old Testament is, never realizing the supreme irony. ETA: Sorry if my response seems rushed, I’m out of time at the moment as I about to board, but I’ll do my best to come back and continue the conversation, thanks. That video star with the strawman presumption that evoking the historical Christian concept of Crusade is supposedly the only argument used to counter the concept of “Jihad” (as opposed to the any sober comparison of the rise of Islam relative to the rise of any other human civilization). It then sets about seemingly creating a broad definition of “Jihad” and thus allowing a depiction of every slave raid or skirmish along the expanding borders of Islamic civilization as a “Jihad Battle.” It then established a very narrow definition of “Crusade,” and depicts only large scale, named battles, and only those against Islamic armies. The intent is obvious: to make the history of violence and warfare fought in the name of Christianity look like a meager joke in comparison to the monolithic onslaught of the Saracens (which continues today, naturally). Some here eat that shit up. It speaks to them. The video made no mention of the Koran. It instead claimed to compare like with like regarding the concepts of Crusades and Jihad. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 9:12:22 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And nobody even paid attention to my comment about the Albigensian Crusades (initiated by the Pope) that resulted in a few hundred thousand non Muslims being killed.
Not to mention the fact that after they were done dispatching the Muslim invaders, the benevolent Christians turned their attention to the Inquisitions. Oh well. I know enough that Christianity GOOD. Crusades GOOD. Christianity = Western Civilization. You disagree, then you are SJW Muslim lover who HATE western civilization! You bad!!! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Also... have you heard of the sacking of Constantinople by Crusaders? Any thoughts as to why that's left out? Would you consider the Spanish Reconquista a "Crusade?" Why or why not? There is no universal, or even general, consensus on what campaigns should be properly titled as "crusades." Different schools of crusade scholarship have different criteria for it. The situation is not aided by the fact that "crusade" is not a term that even existed at the time.
Not to mention the fact that after they were done dispatching the Muslim invaders, the benevolent Christians turned their attention to the Inquisitions. Oh well. I know enough that Christianity GOOD. Crusades GOOD. Christianity = Western Civilization. You disagree, then you are SJW Muslim lover who HATE western civilization! You bad!!! Targeting the Moriscos who claimed that they were converted Catholics and not practicing Islamists, but then would go all sudden jihadi syndrome murdering on Christians in supposedly peacetime conditions in the country. Women, children, elderly. Whoever to get a body count to get into the Islamic paradise. At most, 5000 people over three centuries put to death by the Spanish Inquisition. That's way less than the Muslims would kill in a single outing to raze a Gothic/ Catholic town or village during the occupation of the Iberian pennisula. Moral equivalence not moral equivalencing. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 9:17:04 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The real issue is Jesus never taught to hate or kill those that persecute you. HE explicitly taught to love and forgive your enemies. It would be logically inconsistent with the teachings of Jesus to do anything violent against others. On the other hand--- Violence IS logically consistent with the teachings of Muhammad. Islam is a cancer. Jesus himself told those who had 2 cloaks to sell one and buy a sword. he only stopped Peter from attacking the Roman Soldiers when they came to take him for the future death because it was the fulfillment of the prophesy. you don't tell people to buy swords just to hand over the fireplace. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 9:17:09 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yea, some people think bacon is over rated, but fuck those guys. If the Crusades wouldn't of happened, you have no bacon. You must hate freedom. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Just the usual shit one would learn in history classes in high school and undergrad. I probably learned that the crusades weren’t the best thing ever for everyone given the prevalence of Jews where I grew up, but nothing particularly deep. I don’t think much of the crusades. I do think it is amusing how an elite cadre of blowhards use the crusades to build some kinda wacky identity trip, like they are fightng in some end of the world battle against demonic savages. That shit seems a lot like the blustery crap Islamists spew. Birds and feathers. YMMV. If the Crusades wouldn't of happened, you have no bacon. You must hate freedom. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 9:26:58 AM EDT
[#18]
Sounds like its time for resurrection of the crusades memes
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Posted: 4/28/2019 9:27:57 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, to be a (x) or 2minkey and play the "all is equal" game is at best lazy thinking. Next time I post anything directed at you I will make sure to phrase everything in simple, childish moralistic terms. It will be clear who the good guys and the bad guys are. And you will be reassured you are the former. Then mom will bring cookies. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 9:29:57 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You won’t He is on thin ice and has to be careful if his GD postings He will only attempt to get you to say something CoC violation |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 9:37:45 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. So completely that it is self parody. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 9:38:35 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I see you are making up shit again. Next time I post anything directed at you I will make sure to phrase everything in simple, childish moralistic terms. It will be clear who the good guys and the bad guys are. And you will be reassured you are the former. Then mom will bring cookies. I've yet to see you post a new thread on anything, or post anything factual. Lots of po-mo de-con bullshit. We get tons of that from you. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 9:48:23 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had already answered his question before you posted, sparky. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You won't He is on thin ice and has to be careful if his GD postings He will only attempt to get you to say something CoC violation |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 9:54:00 AM EDT
[#24]
"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that islam is harmless."
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Posted: 4/28/2019 9:54:34 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Explain. I made two statements. Explain how each one is incorrect. Maybe it was that you were trying to make a point with obviousness, and being snotty about it. The self-parody was more like... 
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Posted: 4/28/2019 9:59:37 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Other than grandstanding, what exactly do you post? I've yet to see you post a new thread on anything, or post anything factual. Lots of po-mo de-con bullshit. We get tons of that from you. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 10:02:04 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who says it has anything to do with you being incorrect? Maybe it was that you were trying to make a point with obviousness, and being snotty about it. The self-parody was more like... https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/nickelodeon/images/8/82/Snotty_Boy.png/revision/latest?cb=20160924011009 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Explain. I made two statements. Explain how each one is incorrect. Maybe it was that you were trying to make a point with obviousness, and being snotty about it. The self-parody was more like... https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/nickelodeon/images/8/82/Snotty_Boy.png/revision/latest?cb=20160924011009 "Yes" - you |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 10:09:18 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who says it has anything to do with you being incorrect? Maybe it was that you were trying to make a point with obviousness, and being snotty about it. The self-parody was more like... https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/nickelodeon/images/8/82/Snotty_Boy.png/revision/latest?cb=20160924011009 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Explain. I made two statements. Explain how each one is incorrect. Maybe it was that you were trying to make a point with obviousness, and being snotty about it. The self-parody was more like... https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/nickelodeon/images/8/82/Snotty_Boy.png/revision/latest?cb=20160924011009 |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 10:42:02 AM EDT
[#29]
Everyone should have freedom to choose a religion they want to believe in, or to choose none if that is their desire.
Religion forced at the point of a sword or barrel of a gun, is not freedom of religion. Religion forced into a government to rule the people, is not freedom from religion. Any religion that organizes any type of control of the people, is fundamentally flawed. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 10:45:41 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Am I wrong" - me "Yes" - you I can't help you. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 10:58:46 AM EDT
[#31]
For you history buffs, read this.
Empires of the Sea: The Siege of Malta, the Battle of Lepanto, and the Contest for the Center of the World Repelling Islam in the 1500's was a near run thing. It was a Lord of the Rings and/or Game of Thrones slaughter in real life. Interesting tidbit, the gold acquired from the new world helped to finance the defense against Islam. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 11:19:57 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Islam means summation. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 11:29:36 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Islam means |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 11:40:23 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I ask people to think about their sources of information or, more broadly, to think. I understand why that might offend you. Micro-aggressions and all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: So, you're asking me to watch this video, cross reference it against my understanding of things, and break down where "Dr. Bill" is once again misleading or outright wrong... again. I've spent way too much time doing just that related to previous crap from that man since he first because a thing to bother, or think it worth continuing. The burden of proof is on him to tell me why he's an authority - and he's failed miserable. His continued irrelevant tossing about of his "PhD" status doesn't help. There are plenty of legitimate historians and what not who've written plenty on these subjects. Get you history however you see fit. Even plenty of videos on YouTube, no doubt, but, they don't hit the right tone with a certain crowd here, so they wallow in low rating while as "Dr. Bill" gets threads started. Then again, neither is Warner. But, he tells you things that are in line with your prejudices, so there you go. Let the circle jerk continue. Don't let me get in the way. What do I know though, I'm just a lowly, bigoted 'teener. Do you except the initial "Dr. Bill" premise that the way to compare "Jihad" and "Crusade" as a concept is to look at the locations and numbers of battled done in those names? Do you believe those which he plotted are chosen and depicted using the same criteria? Have you studied the rise of other world civilizations? How would you react to some Leftist rambling about the evil United States by citing the Papal crusades, the Spanish conquest of the Americas, the Indian Removal Act (which he would insist was a "genocide," naturally) and President Bush's use of the term Crusade, thus linking different States, contexts, motivations, and eras into one forced narrative in order to make a polemic point and riled up a bunch of idiots prone to anti-Western and anti- American bias? Would you: 1) demand anyone point out which particular historical event in the rabble was inaccurate? 2) suggest that maybe some context would help? Also... have you heard of the sacking of Constantinople by Crusaders? Any thoughts as to why that's left out? Would you consider the Spanish Reconquista a "Crusade?" Why or why not? 
So Islam is a good thing? |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 11:45:57 AM EDT
[#35]
Interesting video. Not sure what the controversy is about.
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Posted: 4/28/2019 11:51:47 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Christians, as a whole, view them from a Christian world view. Projecting our own morals and expectations upon them, assuming they are like us. They never really truly knew the enemy, thus they were doomed to failure from the start. Western civilization continues that behavior to this day. Along with an unhealthy dose of normalcy bias, and globalist influence, we are losing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The crusades ended when the Christians grew tired of killing so many Muslims. Very tragic. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 11:53:39 AM EDT
[#37]
That audio.
WTF with the noise? |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 11:55:42 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That audio.
WTF with the noise? |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 12:22:57 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting video. Not sure what the controversy is about. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 12:38:45 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: this is not entirely correct. Jesus himself told those who had 2 cloaks to sell one and buy a sword. he only stopped Peter from attacking the Roman Soldiers when they came to take him for the future death because it was the fulfillment of the prophesy. you don't tell people to buy swords just to hand over the fireplace. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 1:55:03 PM EDT
[#41]
Tagged for later tonight.
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Posted: 4/28/2019 3:27:58 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Uh...Just War doctrine has been around for about forever, and is both Christian and details the proper means for dispensing violence. All sorts of Christian thinkers from Augustine to Aquinas to Pope John Paul II have discussed the proper restraints in wartime. The first limitations on violence in warfare were innovations of the Catholic Church. Now, the distinction to be raised was one raised in the wake of the 30 Years War, where violence in its own name became its own self-reinforcing dynamic. So, to be a Bohr_Adam or 2minkey and play the "all is equal" game is at best lazy thinking. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: For the TLDR crowd: Violence is not a Christian doctrine. Violence perpetrated in the name of Christianity is heretical, no excuse or justification for it. All sorts of Christian thinkers from Augustine to Aquinas to Pope John Paul II have discussed the proper restraints in wartime. The first limitations on violence in warfare were innovations of the Catholic Church. Now, the distinction to be raised was one raised in the wake of the 30 Years War, where violence in its own name became its own self-reinforcing dynamic. So, to be a Bohr_Adam or 2minkey and play the "all is equal" game is at best lazy thinking. I’m not denying any of those doctrines exist, I’m just saying they’re not New Testament teachings. I’m not condemning their defensive actions, I’m simply saying seeking to justify them through the teachings of the New Testament is foolish. If a person wishes to claim that later writings, decrees, councils and codices carry the same weight as the original New Testament doctrine, then state that, don’t bring the rest of Christianity into the argument. I’m of the belief that the stuff that came after is bunk, by corrupt men seeking to justify their lust, greed and malice. I typed several more paragraphs but deleted them, I don’t have time to get down into the weeds today, long night last night and a lot to do today, sorry, but I appreciate all you who have taken the time to respond. I will try and check back, if time permits. I haven’t gotten any “all are equal” from B_A’s posts, he’s even stated that islam’s violence continues to this day. Mink’s? Well, spot on. TLDR: They exist, of course, but not in the teachings of Jesus. I don’t have a problem with the defensive wars, but I do have a problem with claiming they were “holy” wars. That’s an oxymoron. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 3:34:48 PM EDT
[#43]
Tagged for later
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Posted: 4/28/2019 3:43:35 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
this is not entirely correct. Jesus himself told those who had 2 cloaks to sell one and buy a sword. he only stopped Peter from attacking the Roman Soldiers when they came to take him for the future death because it was the fulfillment of the prophesy. you don't tell people to buy swords just to hand over the fireplace. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: The real issue is Jesus never taught to hate or kill those that persecute you. HE explicitly taught to love and forgive your enemies. It would be logically inconsistent with the teachings of Jesus to do anything violent against others. On the other hand--- Violence IS logically consistent with the teachings of Muhammad. Islam is a cancer. Jesus himself told those who had 2 cloaks to sell one and buy a sword. he only stopped Peter from attacking the Roman Soldiers when they came to take him for the future death because it was the fulfillment of the prophesy. you don't tell people to buy swords just to hand over the fireplace. So what did he tell them to do with that sword? Why didn’t he join the insurrection against the Romans if that was his goal? |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 3:52:42 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Right, that’s exactly what I said. I said, “all is equal.” I can see why people don’t mind Warner’s bullshit. Dishonestly is misrepresentation in the name of whatever it is you want to rally behind is par for the course. Now, forgive me, I want to read more posts about how killing and war is un-Christian from people who will call for genocide in another thread tomorrow in the name of defending Christianity. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: For the TLDR crowd: Violence is not a Christian doctrine. Violence perpetrated in the name of Christianity is heretical, no excuse or justification for it. All sorts of Christian thinkers from Augustine to Aquinas to Pope John Paul II have discussed the proper restraints in wartime. The first limitations on violence in warfare were innovations of the Catholic Church. Now, the distinction to be raised was one raised in the wake of the 30 Years War, where violence in its own name became its own self-reinforcing dynamic. So, to be a Bohr_Adam or 2minkey and play the "all is equal" game is at best lazy thinking. I can see why people don’t mind Warner’s bullshit. Dishonestly is misrepresentation in the name of whatever it is you want to rally behind is par for the course. Now, forgive me, I want to read more posts about how killing and war is un-Christian from people who will call for genocide in another thread tomorrow in the name of defending Christianity. As far as the doctrine of war, like it or not, it’s not part of New Testament teaching. You can point to sects of Christianity, who came much later, as teaching that doctrine, but you won’t find it in the original. And there again, we’re supposed to make a distinction between the “radicals” who “claim they’re islamic” and all the other muslims, but it’s all good to do the exact opposite with Christianity. Some nut job with six people in his church does something terrible? It’s “Christians” who are the problem. The Catholic Church is a sect of Christianity, a large one, but a sect none the less, not the whole of Christianity, by far. I could give more examples, but you get the point. It’s hypocrisy, and patently obvious to anyone except the hypocrites. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 4:00:46 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Spanish Inquisition was to purge the crypto- Muslims who were allowed to stay after the Reconquista in 1492, the Muslims who had been subjugating and devastating the Iberian peninsula since 710. Because Christians. Slavery. Murder Rape. Subjugation. Islam doing Islam. For almost 800 years. Targeting the Moriscos who claimed that they were converted Catholics and not practicing Islamists, but then would go all sudden jihadi syndrome murdering on Christians in supposedly peacetime conditions in the country. Women, children, elderly. Whoever to get a body count to get into the Islamic paradise. At most, 5000 people over three centuries put to death by the Spanish Inquisition. That's way less than the Muslims would kill in a single outing to raze a Gothic/ Catholic town or village during the occupation of the Iberian pennisula. Moral equivalence not moral equivalencing. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 4:04:56 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The truth is always controversial to those that want to hide it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Interesting video. Not sure what the controversy is about. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 4:13:54 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For you history buffs, read this. Empires of the Sea: The Siege of Malta, the Battle of Lepanto, and the Contest for the Center of the World Repelling Islam in the 1500's was a near run thing. It was a Lord of the Rings and/or Game of Thrones slaughter in real life. Interesting tidbit, the gold acquired from the new world helped to finance the defense against Islam. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 5:10:55 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've followed this topic for awhile now, and I haven't seen a source for the Inquisition being about Muslims chatter than Jews. Could you share? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: The Spanish Inquisition was to purge the crypto- Muslims who were allowed to stay after the Reconquista in 1492, the Muslims who had been subjugating and devastating the Iberian peninsula since 710. Because Christians. Slavery. Murder Rape. Subjugation. Islam doing Islam. For almost 800 years. Targeting the Moriscos who claimed that they were converted Catholics and not practicing Islamists, but then would go all sudden jihadi syndrome murdering on Christians in supposedly peacetime conditions in the country. Women, children, elderly. Whoever to get a body count to get into the Islamic paradise. At most, 5000 people over three centuries put to death by the Spanish Inquisition. That's way less than the Muslims would kill in a single outing to raze a Gothic/ Catholic town or village during the occupation of the Iberian pennisula. Moral equivalence not moral equivalencing. |
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Posted: 4/28/2019 5:34:38 PM EDT
[#50]
(Removed -40xb)
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