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Posted: 3/13/2021 12:13:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Equal opportunity, based on performance. All Education is free, including best universities here in Finland. Get good enough grades, get good education. Healthcare free as well. (Both paid in taxes though). 3 day hospital stay after child birth cost 85$. Extremely complex spinal reconstruction on private side including rehab was 15k$ all in.
85% of male population go through military service. 5 million population and 1,5 million (legal) firearms and all the stuff that was stashed away in 2 world wars to stashes all over the place. Almost no crime. (In Finland). 7 year olds walk to school or use public transportation. Sure, taxes are high (30-40%) but consider this: No cost for education. No need for health insurance. No crippling medical cost. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 12:14:15 PM EDT
[#2]
Here in the UK if we tip it's around 10% but not always. That's because employees are paid a decent wage and are not reliant on tips to survive. Health care is funded from general taxation.
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Posted: 3/13/2021 12:18:31 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP likes NPR, and frequently starts sentences with "I heard on NPR". Don't want to put words in his mouth but Americans are ignorant, Europeans (and American Liberals) are refined, tolerant and global. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 12:25:25 PM EDT
[#4]
They have a better mass transit system around and between countries. I think. Get on a train and travel from UK to Germany?
I know it is a much more relaxed with lots of time off. Good luck getting anything done in July. Everyone takes the month off. I just don’t agree with this. I guess its my hard working American attitude you get what you earn and are not just given 6 weeks of vacation. And I feel this is why we succeed and win, even wars. We do everything with such intensity. Sense of history and culture? When you go into one of their towns and they have buildings that are 100s and 100s of years old. I gives you a sense of historical pride. Not that we don’t. It’s just a much smaller time span of 200 plus years. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 12:26:28 PM EDT
[#5]
 ??Adrenaline?? RusH? IRISH–ROAD–RACING . (Type Race, Isle of Man TT) |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 12:28:48 PM EDT
[#6]
Non insane use of cars and viability of public transport, bicycle, scooter, moped, and other forms of transport.
Compact old world city design with non sprawling suburbs that ruin vast amounts of country side like in the USA. Many European countries don’t get up in arms about “non sporting” imports, previously machine guns down converted to semi auto (assuming they are legal at all, but you can own semi autos and handguns in most of europe) Culture and women’s freedom is important and large swathes of Europe do not welcome the burqa. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 12:37:39 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sweden & Norway, Czechoslovakia, the USSR, and a few other places all broke apart peacefully. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 12:43:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You know why we do it that way? It is so that you can plainly see how much the government is stealing from you. The other way round makes it easy for the government to do shit like charge 20% VAT taxes for the privilege of allowing you to spend the half of your money that they were kind enough to allow you to keep after income taxes. I know Europeans find it quirky, but they also seem to enjoy paying more taxes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Prices on goods in shops - in UK the price displayed is inclusive of tax. Mostly - some exceptions. It is a small thing but noticeable. To me anyway. You know why we do it that way? It is so that you can plainly see how much the government is stealing from you. The other way round makes it easy for the government to do shit like charge 20% VAT taxes for the privilege of allowing you to spend the half of your money that they were kind enough to allow you to keep after income taxes. I know Europeans find it quirky, but they also seem to enjoy paying more taxes. No they dont like paying taxes more than you. But, like you, they will bitch and moan about the govt rather than go out and change it. Dont like paying taxes ? Lobby your Representative to aim for tax reductions. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 12:43:06 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Americans don't need any more help being fat. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Charcuterie and patisserie shops. Americans don't need any more help being fat. Charcuterie doesn’t make you fat. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 12:48:41 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They also are much more strict about cars on the road meeting minimum safety standards. You don't see any dip-shits careening down the road in cobbled together hoopties with bald tires, bouncing on the blown out shocks like they're in a boat, and a turn indicator hanging off the car by it's wiring. This !!!! We have an annual inspection of all cars over 3 years old. Quick and easy. And it ensures MOST cars are in some kind of decent shape regarding brakes , steering and lights etc I am tired of being blinded by mis-alligned headlights on vehicles here which get no attention year after year. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 12:49:01 PM EDT
[#11]
Less commercialism and materialism.
Work/Life balance. Diet and health. I'm sure the lack of places like Walmart and Amazon services actually promote small business competition |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 12:50:36 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sweden & Norway, Czechoslovakia, the USSR, and a few other places all broke apart peacefully. USSR did not break away peacefully. Millions died prior to 1991 trying to break away or to just have basic rights. The USSR Military was only peaceful after ordered to shoot the protesters in 1991. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 12:55:21 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have learned through age and time that they are probably healthier for it, both mentally and physically. I am having big thoughts on retiring at 52, grabbing my pension, letting my personal retirement accounts grow, and working just a couple days a week for pocket money. Work has changed so much for the worse and I can afford to go and maintain my lifestyle, I don’t see the advantage of the continued pressing my face to the grindstone. You and I are in the EXACT same page. I have worked 33 years at my current employer and while I earn a good living, I see first year graduates coming in with more decision making ability that I get. It gets old as hell when your boss does not know what you do but continues tote you how to do it. I am about to downsize in a remarkable fashion and get down to living very small. I think I will be happier doing what I want and exploring my hobbies more. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 12:55:30 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Kids in motorsports. They have many, many classes of kids who race in motorsports starting out very young, with our insanely sue happy culture you would never seena 7yo on a minibike at the track, but its not uncommon in Europe or the UK. Attitude towards alcohol. NHRA has their JR Dragster program, which gets kids as young as seven racing. It's been a big success. Google search found example photo:  |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 1:00:42 PM EDT
[#15]
Nudity.
You can watch a tasteful soap commercial in Europe of a beautiful naked lady. You will see a breast and most of her body. Fat Karens here would lose their shit but there? No big deal. I’m not taking about porn, but tasteful/artistic views of the female body on commercials and in culture. Would be nice to get past that prudish view here. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 1:02:45 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Charcuterie doesn’t make you fat. I had to look it up but........damn that looks good!  One example: 
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Posted: 3/13/2021 1:04:48 PM EDT
[#17]
Everything is so regulated in Europe.
 
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Posted: 3/13/2021 1:06:05 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 20% VAT is pretty sweet, to pay for more .Gov freebies. Laughs in 9% vat |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 1:08:08 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hell, I did it twice last year  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Whatta got? I realize "Europeans" is a pretty broad term. My call is "Holiday". IMO many of them know how to balance life and work. The ones I work with routinely disappear for one or two weeks at various times throughout the year. Their attitude seems to be that either their business colleagues can step in in their absence, or it can jolly well wait until they return. I rarely work with a European professional that has the "squirrel on crack" mindset that so many US professionals do. Not advocating being lazy, but damn, IMO we could learn a thing or two from them about this. I did that every year before retiring. Hell, I did it twice last year I think it's more often than a vacation once or twice a year... |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 1:15:01 PM EDT
[#20]
Meh, moved to the US at age 30, been here 20 years. Very little that Europe does better than the US. Wages are higher and costs are lower here, so you can buy the same 'thing' for 1/3rd the 'effort'; makes a lot of difference to your quality of life. Food is way better in the US unless you are comparing the lowest-end US restaurants with high-end UK restaurants. Even an average Chill's beats most UK restaurants hands down. I can go to any steak/seafood/sushi/indian/italian place here, with several to choose from within 20mins drive, park right outside the door rather than some park-n-ride or council car park the other side of town, and pay a reasonable price for awesome food that would be very difficult to find in the UK at all.
I travelled to Sweden quite a bit in the last 5 years; my peers there live in tiny houses, have tiny (or no) cars, eat in average restaurants, travel locally rather than internationally, pay huge taxes. But they have very clean streets and very shiny trams that take you a fraction of the distance to anywhere you actually want to go. In contrast, to them, I 'live in the countryside' (ie 20 mins out of town), drive a 'huge car' (Landcruiser, nothing spectacular for here), and eat at 'fantastic restaurants' (their opinion of a Longhorn Steakhouse which we happened to drop in at lunchtime). Shit they still talk about the Applebee's riblets they had here 3 years ago. Possibly women age less well in the US once they let themselves go... up to the age of 30 the US is way ahead if you compare women from similar backgrounds. Take a look at a Texan or Floridian college campus and compare with fucking Leeds or Milton Keynes. In my company, of the Europeans that came to the US on a secondment, I'd say 75% stayed. Less than 5% of US folks that did a secondment to European offices wanted to stay. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 1:17:44 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The breakup of the USSR was not peaceful. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 1:24:01 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In my company, of the Europeans that came to the US on a secondment, I'd say 75% stayed. Less than 5% of US folks that did a secondment to European offices wanted to stay. I've noted similar. I think it's pretty telling. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 1:27:10 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We don't need a military to secure our capital from ourselves. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 1:27:14 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why, because you want shitty service here in the States. 
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Posted: 3/13/2021 1:36:59 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you get shitty service leave a 0% tip. Tell the waiter or waitress that they sucked ass and tell the manager. If I do happen to go to a crappy restaurant like Olive Garden I will talk to the hostess and let them know that I’d like to be seated with the best waiter or waitress. Very simple. Also remember that the EU charges a 20% VAT tax on most food items served in restaurants cafés, airports or takeout. Also, a service charge is added to the bill at European restaurants. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 1:37:58 PM EDT
[#26]
I like their emphasis on quality over quantity.
They can keep their work ethic though. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 1:40:36 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Completely agree. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Whatta got? I realize "Europeans" is a pretty broad term. My call is "Holiday". IMO many of them know how to balance life and work. The ones I work with routinely disappear for one or two weeks at various times throughout the year. Their attitude seems to be that either their business colleagues can step in in their absence, or it can jolly well wait until they return. I rarely work with a European professional that has the "squirrel on crack" mindset that so many US professionals do. Not advocating being lazy, but damn, IMO we could learn a thing or two from them about this. Completely agree. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 1:43:44 PM EDT
[#28]
They don't have our puritanical obsession about nudity being the ultimate taboo. American media will depict the most brutal and gory forms of violence imaginable but a naked woman? That might be disturbing to the kids. And we wonder why we're the ones with the largest mass violence problem amongst advanced countries. If porn is the only time nudity is avalible then that warps the way the human body is seen, as only being a dirty thing to always be ashamed of.
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Posted: 3/13/2021 1:49:54 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They don't have our puritanical obsession about nudity being the ultimate taboo. American media will depict the most brutal and gory forms of violence imaginable but a naked woman? That might be disturbing to the kids. And we wonder why we're the ones with the largest mass violence problem amongst advanced countries. If porn is the only time nudity is avalible then that warps the way the human body is seen, as only being a dirty thing to always be ashamed of. The Europeans love nudity, but they have a serious problem with "hate" speech. I'd prefer to have freedom of speech (at least while it lasts). 
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Posted: 3/13/2021 1:50:42 PM EDT
[#30]
Legalized prostitution.
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Posted: 3/13/2021 1:52:46 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Laughs in 9% vat Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 20% VAT is pretty sweet, to pay for more .Gov freebies. Laughs in 9% vat Cries in 25% VAT. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 1:53:50 PM EDT
[#32]
Generally better lingerie worn daily.
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Posted: 3/13/2021 1:54:45 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Meh, moved to the US at age 30, been here 20 years. Very little that Europe does better than the US. Wages are higher and costs are lower here, so you can buy the same 'thing' for 1/3rd the 'effort'; makes a lot of difference to your quality of life. Food is way better in the US unless you are comparing the lowest-end US restaurants with high-end UK restaurants. Even an average Chill's beats most UK restaurants hands down. I can go to any steak/seafood/sushi/indian/italian place here, with several to choose from within 20mins drive, park right outside the door rather than some park-n-ride or council car park the other side of town, and pay a reasonable price for awesome food that would be very difficult to find in the UK at all. I travelled to Sweden quite a bit in the last 5 years; my peers there live in tiny houses, have tiny (or no) cars, eat in average restaurants, travel locally rather than internationally, pay huge taxes. But they have very clean streets and very shiny trams that take you a fraction of the distance to anywhere you actually want to go. In contrast, to them, I 'live in the countryside' (ie 20 mins out of town), drive a 'huge car' (Landcruiser, nothing spectacular for here), and eat at 'fantastic restaurants' (their opinion of a Longhorn Steakhouse which we happened to drop in at lunchtime). Shit they still talk about the Applebee's riblets they had here 3 years ago. Possibly women age less well in the US once they let themselves go... up to the age of 30 the US is way ahead if you compare women from similar backgrounds. Take a look at a Texan or Floridian college campus and compare with fucking Leeds or Milton Keynes. In my company, of the Europeans that came to the US on a secondment, I'd say 75% stayed. Less than 5% of US folks that did a secondment to European offices wanted to stay. Living 20 mins from town is nothing here. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 1:56:33 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've noted similar. I think it's pretty telling. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In my company, of the Europeans that came to the US on a secondment, I'd say 75% stayed. Less than 5% of US folks that did a secondment to European offices wanted to stay. I've noted similar. I think it's pretty telling. I know three Yanks who moved here, I don’t know any Swede who moved to the US permanently. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 2:05:54 PM EDT
[#35]
I love the Italians for.
-Having realistic BMI’s. -Having food that isn’t shit on a shingle. -Having standards for dressing. -Having a working concept of a night life. -Not having their downtowns as yute and homeless thunder domes. -Having concepts of craftsmanship and aesthetics. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 2:06:55 PM EDT
[#36]
OP, I agree with you.
I have never had a bad trip or experience in a European country and I enjoy working with them. I go a few times a year for business and always add a few personal days to the trip. On average, the women are far better looking and take great care of themselves. The food is better, the choices are great and even a no-name corner restaurant will typically serve better food then you get in the US. The beers are better and just great things happening all the time, like Christmas markets, summer carnivals, etc. You want to have some serious fun, be somewhere in Europe when the world cup matches are going on. I have managed to be in Germany once and Norway once when their teams were playing, holy shit! The parties were nonstop. Talk about food, healthy eating, great atmosphere and nice looking women, Greece is killing it. Nothing like strolling around Athens or down the Southern coast and stopping at a local taverna for a cold Alpha or Mythos and just watch the waves roll by. Maybe even order whatever meze is on the menu. 
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Posted: 3/13/2021 2:12:26 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Meh, moved to the US at age 30, been here 20 years. Very little that Europe does better than the US. Wages are higher and costs are lower here, so you can buy the same 'thing' for 1/3rd the 'effort'; makes a lot of difference to your quality of life. Food is way better in the US unless you are comparing the lowest-end US restaurants with high-end UK restaurants. Even an average Chill's beats most UK restaurants hands down. I can go to any steak/seafood/sushi/indian/italian place here, with several to choose from within 20mins drive, park right outside the door rather than some park-n-ride or council car park the other side of town, and pay a reasonable price for awesome food that would be very difficult to find in the UK at all. I travelled to Sweden quite a bit in the last 5 years; my peers there live in tiny houses, have tiny (or no) cars, eat in average restaurants, travel locally rather than internationally, pay huge taxes. But they have very clean streets and very shiny trams that take you a fraction of the distance to anywhere you actually want to go. In contrast, to them, I 'live in the countryside' (ie 20 mins out of town), drive a 'huge car' (Landcruiser, nothing spectacular for here), and eat at 'fantastic restaurants' (their opinion of a Longhorn Steakhouse which we happened to drop in at lunchtime). Shit they still talk about the Applebee's riblets they had here 3 years ago. Possibly women age less well in the US once they let themselves go... up to the age of 30 the US is way ahead if you compare women from similar backgrounds. Take a look at a Texan or Floridian college campus and compare with fucking Leeds or Milton Keynes. In my company, of the Europeans that came to the US on a secondment, I'd say 75% stayed. Less than 5% of US folks that did a secondment to European offices wanted to stay. I disagree with just about everything you wrote. Dont know where you ate overseas but I get better food and service all over Europe and the Med countries. My peers all have nice homes and cars (Audi's, Mercedes) and can jump in their car and take a short drive to another country  I can take a long drive and still be in Oklahoma.
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Posted: 3/13/2021 2:19:21 PM EDT
[#38]
Depends on the Europe were talking about. The UK and Ireland don't have much to teach since their influence kick-started U.S. culture.
Germany, France, Spain, and Italy have much to teach, though. German driving, work culture, quality of life, and material quality (most things are junk in the U.S.). French mealtime, arts, and cultural emphasis. Spanish cuisine and public life (America is intensely antisocial). Italian generosity. Generally, most food quality is much higher there than here. Many (not all) day-to-day essentials are cheaper. Men and women especially are dramatically thinner. Public goods actually exist and usually work. Socialized medicine's major benefit is decoupling work from health security, helping increase labor mobility. I still prefer living here, but we got a lot of work ahead to make America better. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 2:22:19 PM EDT
[#39]
Having cities and towns planned and laid out so that you don't need a car to get around everywhere is kinda nice. As long as that doesn't got to the extreme of "there's no practical way to own a car". Certain aspects of UK politics/government is better than ours IMO. They aren't as locked into a two-party system. They've kinda got three major parties (maybe more like two but with an actually relevant third wheel unlike our libertarians that have no actual impact), but a LOT of small parties that come and go surrounding major issues, and actually get elected. They actually represent ideas/policies/their constituents, not just the party. Seems like politicians are held accountable a lot more. Maybe not criminally like I'm sure a lot of them deserve, but it seems a lot easier to get them removed from office when they do terrible shit.
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Posted: 3/13/2021 2:23:51 PM EDT
[#40]
I used to accumulate 'Time Off.'
Never lost any. You could only carry over 4 weeks year to year. I often received 'permission' to carry over 6 weeks. The problem was that when I was not there my projects quickly ground to a halt. Developing bleeding edge EW technology takes a lot of attention. For while I was only working 4 days a week. That let me keep my teams moving forward with minimal delays. I could pretty easily get enough work lined up for my people to keep busy. I was also still available if a real problem came up. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 2:26:21 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 20% VAT is pretty sweet, to pay for more .Gov freebies. IMO VAT would be better IF and ONLY if it replaced income and most property tax. Based on consumption, not work ethic or merely existing. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 2:28:20 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Been to the UK in the last 5 years? They're right there with us. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Eat a much better diet and not be fat; even that's changing though unfortunately. And France declared their obesity problem an epidemic about 10 years ago. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 2:30:03 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Eat a much better diet and not be fat; even that's changing though unfortunately. Don't forget to "Fat Shame" all the women so they stay deliciously hot. Just transfer flights in Madrid, Rome, Paris or any major European airport and you will understand! |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 2:30:25 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Autobahn Roundabouts The autobahn is like the American highway system now. It has speed limits and it’s patrolled by Polizei. Makes me glad I was there in the 80’s when it was still a free for all. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 2:31:30 PM EDT
[#45]
The ability to walk away from work and not touch it during nonbusiness hours. Americans have a strong tendency to let it bleed through the entire week -- all hours, weekends, just checking my e-mail, just this one thing, see how diligent I am?
I worked with one guy, a German, who would put his nose to the grindstone and keep it down. But when the bell rang, he was DONE. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 2:31:38 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They don't have our puritanical obsession about nudity being the ultimate taboo. American media will depict the most brutal and gory forms of violence imaginable but a naked woman? That might be disturbing to the kids. And we wonder why we're the ones with the largest mass violence problem amongst advanced countries. If porn is the only time nudity is avalible then that warps the way the human body is seen, as only being a dirty thing to always be ashamed of. lol, that isn't because of TV, it's because of inner-city kids going feral from fatherlessness because Uncle Sugar cuts off Mama's welfare if Dad is around. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 2:31:41 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Eat a much better diet and not be fat; even that's changing though unfortunately. Visited germany 10yrs ago via the AF. We drove around and visited castles and towns all week after work and took a 3 day weekend to travel. I did not see a single fat person on that trip till we hit the px/commisary along the way. HO LEE SHIT the difference was staggering. Fatass american NCOs accompanied by their ham planets and dependapotamus's. The beetus is up now in asian countries where it once was traditionally low. Europe is plumping up too. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 2:31:52 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: try eating at better places. Or leave a bad tip and tell the manager why on your way out the door. If you don't tell the manager, the waitress will assume you're an asshole instead of taking the lesson that she should improve her service skills. However, if you do this, don't ever plan on eating there again; she'll get the line cooks and dishwashers to spit in your food next time. Yeah, all that sounds better than not tipping.  The reality is, tipping doesn't mean shit over here any more either. It's just flat out expected, and you're an asshole if you don't. I can tell the manager and never come back just the same if they just fucking charge me what it costs to pay their staff as I can if they employ the guilt method to make me voluntarily pay extra. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 2:32:51 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've never understood that inconsistency either. The Europeans love nudity, but they have a serious problem with "hate" speech. I'd prefer to have freedom of speech (at least while it lasts). Blame the English, who from 1609-1776 exported the Puritans and other uptight Christians to the North American colonies. Australia got the fun-loving, amiable felons, USA got the Uptight Puritan Brigade, and we've suffered ever since. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 2:33:21 PM EDT
[#50]
You are comparing these itty bitty countries to the USA. You need to go apples and apples. Start with China, India, etc. Yes size and population make a huge difference in terms of culture, politics, wealth, etc
https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2018/09/Population-cartogram_World-2-e1538912000147.png |
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