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Gross Tonnage They have it. It's only supposed to apply to ships under 65 feet, but just like the 18 wheeler going 56 MPH that cuts into the fast lane and blocks cars going 70 to pass another truck going 54 MPH, they don't really give a fuck and extend their "law of gross tonnage" attitude to just about everyone. They'll flat out run over boats in the Port of Houston shipping channel. View Quote |
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Good Morning America reports that some of the seven dead sailors were alive when the hatches were shut to keep the ship from sinking. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4621656/US-sailors-trapped-ALIVE-USS-Fitzgerald-sank.html View Quote ![]() |
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Damn, reminds me of that scene from Crimson Tide movie: https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/800/0*lHwm2Up1P2a9hy32.gif View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Good Morning America reports that some of the seven dead sailors were alive when the hatches were shut to keep the ship from sinking. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4621656/US-sailors-trapped-ALIVE-USS-Fitzgerald-sank.html https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/800/0*lHwm2Up1P2a9hy32.gif If the sailors did not make it out before the hatches were dropped, I would guess that they were either seriously incapacitated, trapped or dead. That scuttle can be opened from inside the damaged compartment. EDIT: The effected berthing compartments (in that area there is one right on top of the other) there would be two of these hatches. One on the port side and another on the starboard and each one would have a scuttle to get out of the space with. ![]() |
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This hatch you see here would be identical to the one they are talking about. Notice a smaller, round door in the center? That is called a scuttle and on the underside is an another wheel that opens it. If the sailors did not make it out before the hatches were dropped, I would guess that they were either seriously incapacitated, trapped or dead. That scuttle can be opened from inside the damaged compartment. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Flickr_-_Official_U.S._Navy_Imagery_-_Sailors_dog_down_a_water_tight_hatch..jpg View Quote It would be braced with mechanical or wooden shoring as well. |
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It would be braced with mechanical or wooden shoring as well. View Quote There is no way a shoring team had that up under 8 minutes. The ladder on the damaged side would likely have been destroyed however, they could enter the space from the other side. Edit: Its been over a year since I've walked on a DDG put I'm almost positive there is a 3rd way out. On the upper berthing port side there is a gear locker and next to it is another escape scuttle and it would open up in the passageway above it. I could be thinking of one other aft berthings. |
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There is no way a shoring team had that up under 8 minutes. The ladder on the damaged side would likely have been destroyed however, they could enter the space from the other side. Edit: Its been over a year since I've walked on a DDG put I'm almost positive there is a 3rd way out. On the upper berthing there is a gear locker and next to it is another escape scuttle and it would open up in the passageway above it. View Quote I'm just a puddle pirate, I'll take your word on the EE points. ![]() |
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This hatch you see here would be identical to the one they are talking about. Notice a smaller, round door in the center? That is called a scuttle and on the underside is an another wheel that opens it. If the sailors did not make it out before the hatches were dropped, I would guess that they were either seriously incapacitated, trapped or dead. That scuttle can be opened from inside the damaged compartment. EDIT: The effected berthing compartments (in that area there is one right on top of the other) there would be two of these hatches. One on the port side and another on the starboard and each one would have a scuttle to get out of the space with. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Flickr_-_Official_U.S._Navy_Imagery_-_Sailors_dog_down_a_water_tight_hatch..jpg View Quote ![]() ![]() |
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Agreed and I'd bet it was because they were either dead or close to it. There is also a row of racks (bunks) on that side about 5 to 6 ft away from the damaged bulkhead. View Quote Some of our racks are directly on the bulkhead. I was wondering if it was the same for the Navy or we're just that expendable. ![]() |
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Some of our racks are directly on the bulkhead. I was wondering if it was the same for the Navy or we're just that expendable. ![]() View Quote Edit: No racks on the bulkhead. As you come down the ladder there would be a small card table with two plastic seats. Continue forward another row of racks oriented FWD and AFT. There would also be a huge fuel tank underneath the bething. |
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I hang a radar reflector in the flybridge when in open water, but I don't know how much it helps. I'm maybe a 2 on a scale of 10 when it comes to maritime capability, so I hate to even weigh in on threads like this. I've not been able to successfully differentiate between other vessels and weather on radar, which makes navigation in weather at night in particular such a risky thing. I have no idea if this is relevant to the problems with the Fitzgerald collision, but 'noise pollution' is a very real thing in my experience. For those that were asking about why it's tough to keep track of other vessels in a crowded channel - here's a shot I found online of a radar with AIS overlay in a channel with minimal traffic. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/4267/Radar-with-AIS-234923.jpg View Quote Once one gets used to looking at a radar you learn to pick stuff out. On most of the tugs I've worked on we have plain Jane early to mid 90's sets. No overlays or anything fancy like that. I can pick out a helicopter, small boats, squalls, and if it's tuned in real good a flock of birds. I'm used to picking something up on the radar and comparing it to either something on the chart, an AIS contact on the chart plotter, or using MK 1 eyeball. So in my case I'm independently comparing stuff to make sure of what it is. The new modern ECDIS sets like what the ship and Fitz most likely have have all of that info (save MK 1 eyeball) in one display so I can see how you would get reliant on one. I've been in NY harbor before where Ive turned the AIS tracklines and heading markers off because it was like a bowl of noodles. Shit was going everywhere. |
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http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/503d076eecad044d6d000011-1200/once-aboard-sleeping-assignments-were-provided--the-top-right-bunk-was-mine-dozens-of-enlisted-sailors-sleep-down-here-and-the-nights-were-filled-with-cellphone-alarms.jpg Berthing space on Arleigh Burke class destroyer http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/503d07eeeab8eab441000002-1200/so-before-heading-back-into-the-sleeping-quarters-i-grab-the-flashlight-i-brought-for-just-such-an-occasion.jpg Entrance to berthing space http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/503d07ddeab8ea5942000002-1200/even-in-this-main-passagewaya-bright-yellow-sticker-reminds-crew-that-the-ship-could-go-down-at-any-point.jpg View Quote That scuttle ( your 3rd photo) would come out in the passageway I think was nearby the ships office. In your first photo, look behind the chair. That is a sounding tube for the fuel tank underneth the lower berthing compartment. It is looking aft in the center line of the compartment. |
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NYT Looking more like what many here (me included) believe, the first 90 degree turn on the AIS track was the collision and that the "U-turn" was about returning to render assistance, not the merchant pitching in to ram the DDG. Talking to some of the SWOs in the building here, they seem to think that many merchants do not man their engine rooms during the cruise phase of transits, which means that they are unable to exercise full control of their speed.. The delay in returning to the collision site could have been partially due to getting the master's permission to man the engine room and then getting an engineer or two down there. View Quote ![]() |
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Why would you ever want an engine room unmanned? ![]() View Quote Plus you don't have to have as many engineers and QMEDs on board to stand full watches. (QMED is a qualified member of the engineering watch) |
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How about we wait for the investigation report. Intentionally sensational headline makes a declarative statement of fact: "Seven dead sailors 'were trapped ALIVE inside flooding USS Fitzgerald after their comrades were forced to shut them in to stop the stricken vessel from sinking' after collision with cargo ship" Actual article text reveals the Navy is looking into the possibility: "The Navy is investigating the horrifying possibility that some of those who died on the USS Fitzgerald when it sank may have been trapped alive in rapidly flooding compartments as emergency hatches were closed, it has emerged. " View Quote (Told by a guy who was a snipe on Skipjack.) |
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NYT Looking more like what many here (me included) believe, the first 90 degree turn on the AIS track was the collision and that the "U-turn" was about returning to render assistance, not the merchant pitching in to ram the DDG. Talking to some of the SWOs in the building here, they seem to think that many merchants do not man their engine rooms during the cruise phase of transits, which means that they are unable to exercise full control of their speed.. The delay in returning to the collision site could have been partially due to getting the master's permission to man the engine room and then getting an engineer or two down there. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
NYT Japanese officials said on Monday that the accident had occurred nearly an hour earlier than previously believed, and on Tuesday the United States Navy appeared to accept the revised timeline. “We’re not disputing what the Japanese Coast Guard is saying” about the timing of the collision, said Cmdr. Bill Clinton, a spokesman for the Seventh Fleet at the American base in Yokosuka, Japan, south of Tokyo. Looking more like what many here (me included) believe, the first 90 degree turn on the AIS track was the collision and that the "U-turn" was about returning to render assistance, not the merchant pitching in to ram the DDG. Talking to some of the SWOs in the building here, they seem to think that many merchants do not man their engine rooms during the cruise phase of transits, which means that they are unable to exercise full control of their speed.. The delay in returning to the collision site could have been partially due to getting the master's permission to man the engine room and then getting an engineer or two down there. As if we believe anything Bill Clinton says. |
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It's not gross tonnage, it's "constrained by draft". Nobody is putting a ship aground because of some dumbass in a speedboat, and the CG wouldn't expect them to. View Quote Pulling back into San Diego aboard the LSD USS GERMANTOWN. Some idiot in a 12' boat fishing in the middle of the channel, DIW. We were making a bee line right for him midships. We can not maneuver. We blasted the horn, signaled, everything, he looked up just as he disappeared from view from the Bridge. He must've gotten that out board started in a jiffy because he squirted out the port side back into view just in the nick of time. I bet the bow wasn't more than 30 feet from him. |
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What's with all that unsecured crap/missile hazards on the right side of the picture? ![]() View Quote Chocolate sauce and papayas. Looks like dessert. They could have just done an unrep and those stores weren't put away yet before they went to the GQ drill. That looks like one of the ladderwells on a carrier. |
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http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/503d076eecad044d6d000011-1200/once-aboard-sleeping-assignments-were-provided--the-top-right-bunk-was-mine-dozens-of-enlisted-sailors-sleep-down-here-and-the-nights-were-filled-with-cellphone-alarms.jpg Berthing space on Arleigh Burke class destroyer http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/503d07eeeab8eab441000002-1200/so-before-heading-back-into-the-sleeping-quarters-i-grab-the-flashlight-i-brought-for-just-such-an-occasion.jpg Entrance to berthing space http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/503d07ddeab8ea5942000002-1200/even-in-this-main-passagewaya-bright-yellow-sticker-reminds-crew-that-the-ship-could-go-down-at-any-point.jpg View Quote How do you open the escape scuttle from the inside? Doesn't appear to be any latches or handles. |
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How do you open the escape scuttle from the inside? Doesn't appear to be any latches or handles. View Quote |
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How do you open the escape scuttle from the inside? Doesn't appear to be any latches or handles. View Quote There's a wheel on the other side. That one in the photo is in a Pway so you can't have a wheel sticking up where people walk. https://catalog.archives.gov/id/6699376 ![]() |
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Ah, I see. The business side has the wheel, the "safe" side is shown in that last pic. Thanks, all.
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It's not gross tonnage, it's "constrained by draft". Nobody is putting a ship aground because of some dumbass in a speedboat, and the CG wouldn't expect them to. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Gross Tonnage They have it. It's only supposed to apply to ships under 65 feet, but just like the 18 wheeler going 56 MPH that cuts into the fast lane and blocks cars going 70 to pass another truck going 54 MPH, they don't really give a fuck and extend their "law of gross tonnage" attitude to just about everyone. They'll flat out run over boats in the Port of Houston shipping channel. I frequently take my little ski boat out to near the shipping lanes (w/in 1nm) to anchor and watch the ships go by. I'm anchored in 8' of water sometimes. A 60' motor yacht limping on one engine at low tide and with a north wind in the Houston Ship Channel would likely be constrained as well, but well and truly fucked by the 6 knot container ship running up his ass. |
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How about we wait for the investigation report. Intentionally sensational headline makes a declarative statement of fact: "Seven dead sailors 'were trapped ALIVE inside flooding USS Fitzgerald after their comrades were forced to shut them in to stop the stricken vessel from sinking' after collision with cargo ship" Actual article text reveals the Navy is looking into the possibility: "The Navy is investigating the horrifying possibility that some of those who died on the USS Fitzgerald when it sank may have been trapped alive in rapidly flooding compartments as emergency hatches were closed, it has emerged. " View Quote |
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NYT Looking more like what many here (me included) believe, the first 90 degree turn on the AIS track was the collision and that the "U-turn" was about returning to render assistance, not the merchant pitching in to ram the DDG. Talking to some of the SWOs in the building here, they seem to think that many merchants do not man their engine rooms during the cruise phase of transits, which means that they are unable to exercise full control of their speed.. The delay in returning to the collision site could have been partially due to getting the master's permission to man the engine room and then getting an engineer or two down there. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
NYT Japanese officials said on Monday that the accident had occurred nearly an hour earlier than previously believed, and on Tuesday the United States Navy appeared to accept the revised timeline. “We’re not disputing what the Japanese Coast Guard is saying” about the timing of the collision, said Cmdr. Bill Clinton, a spokesman for the Seventh Fleet at the American base in Yokosuka, Japan, south of Tokyo. You'd have a duty engineer who would be responsible for the engine room during the "unmanned" portion of time. They would make a round and answer any alarms. |
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Changing gears from the speculation at how this happened, the DC's leading the DC repair parties to save the ship deserves all of the recognition. This is why you drill in port and underway, there is nowhere to go at sea, fight to save the ship.
I spent many hours while at condition 1 in the aft repair locker prepared to do what's needed to save the ship. We had some great DC's and I learned a lot from them. Was down a GITMO twice for refresh training, we always left wth lots of E's and a DC |
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One of the 7 sailors who died aboard the USS Fitzgerald saved more than a dozen of his fellow shipmates before he ultimately lost his own life, The Daily Beast reported.
When the Fitzgerald collided with the merchant ship, 37-year-old Fire Controlman 1st Class Gary Leo Rehm Jr., "leapt into action," according to The Daily Beast. The Fitzgerald was struck below the waterline, and Rehm Jr.'s family was told by the Navy that he went under and saved at least 20 sailors, according to WBNS-10TV in Columbus, Ohio. But when he went back down to get the other six sailors, the ship began to take on too much water, and the hatch was closed, WBNS-10TV said. http://www.businessinsider.com/this-sailor-sacrificed-himself-save-20-lives-the-uss-fitzgerald-2017-6?utm_content=buffer6fb51&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer-bi View Quote |
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One of the 7 sailors who died aboard the USS Fitzgerald saved more than a dozen of his fellow shipmates before he ultimately lost his own life, The Daily Beast reported.
When the Fitzgerald collided with the merchant ship, 37-year-old Fire Controlman 1st Class Gary Leo Rehm Jr., "leapt into action," according to The Daily Beast. The Fitzgerald was struck below the waterline, and Rehm Jr.'s family was told by the Navy that he went under and saved at least 20 sailors, according to WBNS-10TV in Columbus, Ohio. But when he went back down to get the other six sailors, the ship began to take on too much water, and the hatch was closed, WBNS-10TV said. http://www.businessinsider.com/this-sailor-sacrificed-himself-save-20-lives-the-uss-fitzgerald-2017-6?utm_content=buffer6fb51&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer-bi ![]() |
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One of the 7 sailors who died aboard the USS Fitzgerald saved more than a dozen of his fellow shipmates before he ultimately lost his own life, The Daily Beast reported.
When the Fitzgerald collided with the merchant ship, 37-year-old Fire Controlman 1st Class Gary Leo Rehm Jr., "leapt into action," according to The Daily Beast. The Fitzgerald was struck below the waterline, and Rehm Jr.'s family was told by the Navy that he went under and saved at least 20 sailors, according to WBNS-10TV in Columbus, Ohio. But when he went back down to get the other six sailors, the ship began to take on too much water, and the hatch was closed, WBNS-10TV said. http://www.businessinsider.com/this-sailor-sacrificed-himself-save-20-lives-the-uss-fitzgerald-2017-6?utm_content=buffer6fb51&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer-bi |
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I'm sure he'll be decorated for that. What's the highest that he could get these days? I recall a sailor in the interwar period getting the Medal of Honor for similar actions, but the law was changed to not allow non-combat MOHs sometime before WWII. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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One of the 7 sailors who died aboard the USS Fitzgerald saved more than a dozen of his fellow shipmates before he ultimately lost his own life, The Daily Beast reported.
When the Fitzgerald collided with the merchant ship, 37-year-old Fire Controlman 1st Class Gary Leo Rehm Jr., "leapt into action," according to The Daily Beast. The Fitzgerald was struck below the waterline, and Rehm Jr.'s family was told by the Navy that he went under and saved at least 20 sailors, according to WBNS-10TV in Columbus, Ohio. But when he went back down to get the other six sailors, the ship began to take on too much water, and the hatch was closed, WBNS-10TV said. http://www.businessinsider.com/this-sailor-sacrificed-himself-save-20-lives-the-uss-fitzgerald-2017-6?utm_content=buffer6fb51&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer-bi |
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