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Posted: 9/2/2024 5:24:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: CarmelBytheSea]
[#1]
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Posted: 9/2/2024 5:27:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: Missilegeek]
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: Ass I've said many times before: the odds are certainly stacked deep against Ukraine, but it's not hopeless for them yet. Putin does have vulnerabilities, albeit small. The endgame is pretty self explanatory for both sides. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: Originally Posted By Missilegeek: I understand that, and my response was more just what popped into my head on the topic at hand and meant more as a general discussion piece. Because the logical question is what is the endgame? And the answers given so far leave a lot to be desired. It seems Ukraine is incapable of outright military victory, and it looks like Putin is going nowhere. That leaves us negotiating with a lying dicatator who has a propensity to invade his neighbors. Sometimes there are only bad options. I can't help but think that if we had people who were not clowns in charge of the Pentagon and in key positions in the WH, this could have gone a lot better than just half assed reacting to everything after it happens. But alas stolen elections have consequences. Ass I've said many times before: the odds are certainly stacked deep against Ukraine, but it's not hopeless for them yet. Putin does have vulnerabilities, albeit small. The endgame is pretty self explanatory for both sides. Well, since we are reactionary, the options for endgame are seemingly pretty limited at this point. Had the clowns in charge developed a plan, there were opportunities previously for what will likely end up a much more favorable outcome. But this is a similar team of dipshits, as we had when Obama was officially in office. And back then, they had the opportunity to get us out of Afghanistan with dignity after killing UBL... But they were too stupid to do it then, and they were too stupid to stop the fighting in Ukraine when the opportunity was present. When you are the global superpower, you gotta at least pretend to play the part on occasion. These clowns have failed at everything they have touched. It looks like they may even bungle Ukraine, which for the longest time looked to be nothing but win win for us. The foreign policy incompetence of this administration is astounding. And of course there is no national discourse on it, the Communist propagandist that are supposed to be our media do nothing but cover for them. |
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Posted: 9/2/2024 5:37:50 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: All I know is iPhone autocorrect sucks balls 1/2 the time but it's a pain going into settings to turn it off  |
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Posted: 9/2/2024 7:57:38 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xd341: Ass you've said? why?  Doh! 
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Posted: 9/2/2024 8:00:38 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Well, since we are reactionary, the options for endgame are seemingly pretty limited at this point. Had the clowns in charge developed a plan, there were opportunities previously for what will likely end up a much more favorable outcome. But this is a similar team of dipshits, as we had when Obama was officially in office. And back then, they had the opportunity to get us out of Afghanistan with dignity after killing UBL... But they were too stupid to do it then, and they were too stupid to stop the fighting in Ukraine when the opportunity was present. When you are the global superpower, you gotta at least pretend to play the part on occasion. These clowns have failed at everything they have touched. It looks like they may even bungle Ukraine, which for the longest time looked to be nothing but win win for us. The foreign policy incompetence of this administration is astounding. And of course there is no national discourse on it, the Communist propagandist that are supposed to be our media do nothing but cover for them. The way I see it: Ukraine was always going to lose the war so they had no real big reason to just up and quit. Their best shot was always going to make Putin's victory so costly that he abandons his plans. I don't think that's changed. Don't neglect the serious problems Russia is stuck with IF they completely conquer Ukraine: It's a huge country, Russia will be responsible for rebuilding what they broke, and they need to provide an occupying force. |
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Posted: 9/2/2024 9:34:39 PM EST
[#6]
Russia isn’t going to take terms that don’t advantage them. Just taking the lines that exist now hasn’t been and won’t yet be an option until Russia is less sure of their ability to take more.
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Posted: 9/2/2024 9:53:46 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Russia isn’t going to take terms that don’t advantage them. Just taking the lines that exist now hasn’t been and won’t yet be an option until Russia is less sure of their ability to take more. That was my point earlier. If team Biden weren't clowns, they could have negotiated a very favorable peace at the end of 2022, when Russia was looking real sorry. A good negotiator may have even got some additional portion of Crimea or E Ukraine back. Now Ukraine will have to count their blessing to survive this as a nation with 50+% of the land this fiasco started with. Trump is correct. Russia would not have tried this with him in office. Nor would they have tried it, if the US clearly articulated a policy of massive arms support from the West, in Dec 2021. Instead we had a confused old man with dementia, supported by idiot interns, on a conference call with Obama running the show like the incompetent Communist committee that they are. |
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Posted: 9/2/2024 9:57:13 PM EST
[#8]
I agree with everything except that I don’t think Russia would get past the Dnipro even if the US stopped supporting Ukraine.
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Posted: 9/3/2024 12:09:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: K30MuleLAR15]
[#9]
Russia is in no way afraid to use nukes in their own country, why politically that would be a concern to other countries really does not understand communist psychology. They have been killing their own for over a century.
Only now would the great leader  be willing to change public opinion to a point of revolution.
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Posted: 9/3/2024 12:11:05 AM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By K30MuleLAR15: Russia is in no way afraid to use nukes in their own country, why that would be a concern really does not understand communist psychology. They have been killing their own for over a century. Only now would the great leader be willing to change public opinion to a point of revolution.Literal, actual Russia was just invaded. No Nukes have flown yet. |
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Posted: 9/3/2024 12:12:26 AM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: The special military operation to liberate ethnic Ukrainian speakers continues!  Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 9/3/2024 12:17:25 AM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By K30MuleLAR15: Russia is in no way afraid to use nukes in their own country, why that would be a concern really does not understand communist psychology. They have been killing their own for over a century. Only now would the great leader be willing to change public opinion to a point of revolution.We should have done this years ago. |
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Posted: 9/3/2024 12:20:45 AM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FreefallRet: Why we should give Ukraine nukes to cleanse all their occupied territory. We should have done this years ago. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FreefallRet: Originally Posted By K30MuleLAR15: Russia is in no way afraid to use nukes in their own country, why that would be a concern really does not understand communist psychology. They have been killing their own for over a century. Only now would the great leader be willing to change public opinion to a point of revolution.We should have done this years ago. They should have kept the nukes they had. They learned the REAL hard lesson that when the world says it's a good idea to hand over your nukes, the proper reply is always "ok you first." |
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Posted: 9/3/2024 5:06:14 AM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryWhat's wrong with it? There are numerous people who speak a "weird Russian accent" In not only Kursk but Belgorod and those regions wish to join Ukraine. Source: a 5 foot 5 guy who likes wearing green. It works for Russia and their simps to legitimize the "claim" they have over Ukraine. |
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Posted: 9/3/2024 7:31:47 AM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: The way I see it: Ukraine was always going to lose the war so they had no real big reason to just up and quit. Their best shot was always going to make Putin's victory so costly that he abandons his plans. I don't think that's changed. Don't neglect the serious problems Russia is stuck with IF they completely conquer Ukraine: It's a huge country, Russia will be responsible for rebuilding what they broke, and they need to provide an occupying force. It's easier to pull off when you're a complete bag of dicks. The west isn't actually comfortable with overt imperial power. |
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Posted: 9/3/2024 10:15:21 PM EST
[#16]
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MS, USA
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Posted: 9/3/2024 11:11:49 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: Literal, actual Russia was just invaded. No Nukes have flown yet. They don't 'need' nukes to put a stop to this cross border incursion. Every single time Ukraine has tried it so far - That shit has failed and ended in piles of UAF losses. This time will be no different. How much dirt of military value did LOSE today??? 
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Posted: 9/4/2024 12:45:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 56xdx_Z]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xd341: They have run this game in other countries, they don't do it the same way the west does. They essentially hire out oppression of insurgency to the local strongman, support with proxies like Wagner and have absolutely no problem with brutal human rights abuses. It's easier to pull off when you're a complete bag of dicks. The west isn't actually comfortable with overt imperial power. Back during the War on Terror, the republican commentators would talk about how the US can't win against islam because we are afraid to go scorched earth, and instead take out the strongman and leave a power vacuum. But look how Putin handled Chechnya, scorched earth followed by embracing a friendly strongman figure (Kadyrov), and today instead of Russia fighting insurgents 20 years later, those guys are fighting for Russia. |
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Posted: 9/4/2024 4:58:50 AM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryUkraine will be responsible for rebuilding what they broke, and they need to provide an occupying force. |
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Posted: 9/4/2024 5:05:33 AM EST
[#20]
Ukraines new drone/missile https://www.axios.com/2024/09/04/ukraine-russia-palianytsia-drone
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NV, USA
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Posted: 9/4/2024 5:07:05 AM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Well, since we are reactionary, the options for endgame are seemingly pretty limited at this point. Had the clowns in charge developed a plan, there were opportunities previously for what will likely end up a much more favorable outcome. But this is a similar team of dipshits, as we had when Obama was officially in office. And back then, they had the opportunity to get us out of Afghanistan with dignity after killing UBL... But they were too stupid to do it then, and they were too stupid to stop the fighting in Ukraine when the opportunity was present. When you are the global superpower, you gotta at least pretend to play the part on occasion. These clowns have failed at everything they have touched. It looks like they may even bungle Ukraine, which for the longest time looked to be nothing but win win for us. The foreign policy incompetence of this administration is astounding. And of course there is no national discourse on it, the Communist propagandist that are supposed to be our media do nothing but cover for them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Originally Posted By Zhukov: Originally Posted By Missilegeek: I understand that, and my response was more just what popped into my head on the topic at hand and meant more as a general discussion piece. Because the logical question is what is the endgame? And the answers given so far leave a lot to be desired. It seems Ukraine is incapable of outright military victory, and it looks like Putin is going nowhere. That leaves us negotiating with a lying dicatator who has a propensity to invade his neighbors. Sometimes there are only bad options. I can't help but think that if we had people who were not clowns in charge of the Pentagon and in key positions in the WH, this could have gone a lot better than just half assed reacting to everything after it happens. But alas stolen elections have consequences. Ass I've said many times before: the odds are certainly stacked deep against Ukraine, but it's not hopeless for them yet. Putin does have vulnerabilities, albeit small. The endgame is pretty self explanatory for both sides. Well, since we are reactionary, the options for endgame are seemingly pretty limited at this point. Had the clowns in charge developed a plan, there were opportunities previously for what will likely end up a much more favorable outcome. But this is a similar team of dipshits, as we had when Obama was officially in office. And back then, they had the opportunity to get us out of Afghanistan with dignity after killing UBL... But they were too stupid to do it then, and they were too stupid to stop the fighting in Ukraine when the opportunity was present. When you are the global superpower, you gotta at least pretend to play the part on occasion. These clowns have failed at everything they have touched. It looks like they may even bungle Ukraine, which for the longest time looked to be nothing but win win for us. The foreign policy incompetence of this administration is astounding. And of course there is no national discourse on it, the Communist propagandist that are supposed to be our media do nothing but cover for them. Correct. But you need to finish the thought. This war, and all wars in general since WW II are meant to destabilize the world in order to re make the world. It can't be done quickly or the people will revolt. But over decades the people will buy into the patriotism and propaganda. The strong are culled, and the weak are left. which are much more easily misled. |
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Posted: 9/4/2024 5:13:51 AM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jackslack: Correct. But you need to finish the thought. This war, and all wars in general since WW II are meant to destabilize the world in order to re make the world. It can't be done quickly or the people will revolt. But over decades the people will buy into the patriotism and propaganda. The strong are culled, and the weak are left. which are much more easily misled. Well tell that to the Chinese people, they’re about to die by the millions |
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Posted: 9/4/2024 5:19:46 AM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aaron56: How much dirt of military value did LOSE today??? Moose and squirrel! |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 9/4/2024 6:06:31 AM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: Moose and squirrel! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: Originally Posted By Aaron56: How much dirt of military value did LOSE today??? Moose and squirrel! 🤣 |
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Posted: 9/4/2024 6:09:51 AM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Ukraines new drone/missile https://www.axios.com/2024/09/04/ukraine-russia-palianytsia-drone It’s basically a poor man’s cruise missile and an equivalent of the shahed, just jet powered. Perfect for hitting planes and refineries 
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Posted: 9/5/2024 12:53:10 AM EST
[#26]
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Posted: 9/5/2024 1:08:24 AM EST
[#27]
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/5/2024 1:19:56 AM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 56xdx_Z: Back during the War on Terror, the republican commentators would talk about how the US can't win against islam because we are afraid to go scorched earth, and instead take out the strongman and leave a power vacuum. But look how Putin handled Chechnya, scorched earth followed by embracing a friendly strongman figure (Kadyrov), and today instead of Russia fighting insurgents 20 years later, those guys are fighting for Russia. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 56xdx_Z: Originally Posted By xd341: They have run this game in other countries, they don't do it the same way the west does. They essentially hire out oppression of insurgency to the local strongman, support with proxies like Wagner and have absolutely no problem with brutal human rights abuses. It's easier to pull off when you're a complete bag of dicks. The west isn't actually comfortable with overt imperial power. Back during the War on Terror, the republican commentators would talk about how the US can't win against islam because we are afraid to go scorched earth, and instead take out the strongman and leave a power vacuum. But look how Putin handled Chechnya, scorched earth followed by embracing a friendly strongman figure (Kadyrov), and today instead of Russia fighting insurgents 20 years later, those guys are fighting for Russia. If you're actually willing to commit wholesale massacre of civilian populaces, and have the troop strength to implement such policies...it's actually fairly effective. That's the true unpleasant truth of history that the West has been absolutely loathe to talk about, think about, acknowledge, or exploit. Hitler was quite aware of it, as was Stalin. It's remarkable that the USSR wasn't able to pacify Afghanistan, and just goes to show that by the end of their political system they'd lost the ruthlessness that defined the first few decades under Stalin. "No man, no problem" is brutally simple and true. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/5/2024 1:31:24 AM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WesJanson: If you're actually willing to commit wholesale massacre of civilian populaces, and have the troop strength to implement such policies...it's actually fairly effective. That's the true unpleasant truth of history that the West has been absolutely loathe to talk about, think about, acknowledge, or exploit. Hitler was quite aware of it, as was Stalin. It's remarkable that the USSR wasn't able to pacify Afghanistan, and just goes to show that by the end of their political system they'd lost the ruthlessness that defined the first few decades under Stalin. "No man, no problem" is brutally simple and true. They failed for the exact same reason we have failed in every guerilla war since 1945: failure to control the borders. There's obviously more to it than that, but essentially as long as the guerilla force has access to sanctuary and resupply in a (more or less) safe haven, the war lasts until their sponsors get tired. That doesn't usually happen. |
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Posted: 9/5/2024 1:42:49 AM EST
[#30]
It’s almost impossible to kill enough people to pacify a place. It’s when you move your people in that you gain control for good.
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Posted: 9/5/2024 2:09:08 AM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: Moose and squirrel! 
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Posted: 9/5/2024 2:14:33 AM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: It’s almost impossible to kill enough people to pacify a place. It’s when you move your people in that you gain control for good. Democrats know what they are doing at the southern border. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/5/2024 3:04:02 AM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: Moose and squirrel! Fuckin nailed it |
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Posted: 9/5/2024 12:44:09 PM EST
[#34]
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Posted: 9/5/2024 12:48:30 PM EST
[#35]
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Posted: 9/5/2024 1:55:44 PM EST
[#36]
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Posted: 9/5/2024 1:57:39 PM EST
[#37]
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Posted: 9/5/2024 2:01:28 PM EST
[#38]
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Posted: 9/5/2024 2:12:57 PM EST
[#39]
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Posted: 9/5/2024 3:40:51 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: What's wrong with it? There are numerous people who speak a "weird Russian accent" In not only Kursk but Belgorod and those regions wish to join Ukraine. Source: a 5 foot 5 guy who likes wearing green. It works for Russia and their simps to legitimize the "claim" they have over Ukraine. Nothing wrong with that train of thought, I liked it as a legit reason. It worked for WWII and putin tried it but is not working out as he thought. I said 2 years ago that Ukraine should enter east of Kiev. Why not if they can hold it, grab as much as you can if the plan is to stalemate before a Korean type truce. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 9/5/2024 3:46:09 PM EST
[#41]
If they can hold until the Fall Rains they might have a bargaining chip going into 2025 that would be of significant value. Although, they do need to prevent a total collapse along their current front, they could probably afford to lose some territory but can't end up in a situation where they're thrown into a massive retreat.
I think the writing is on the wall. I think there are plans on both sides of this conflict to see where things sit at the end of this fighting season and pursue a negotiated end to this conflct. If Trump wins, by some miracle, it will definitely go into negotiations. However, even if Harris wins we could still see a negotiated resolution in 2025, I would guess that there is a lot of pressure on the EU side to make that happen particularly from Germany. |
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Posted: 9/5/2024 3:55:30 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KaerMorhenResident: If they can hold until the Fall Rains they might have a bargaining chip going into 2025 that would be of significant value. Although, they do need to prevent a total collapse along their current front, they could probably afford to lose some territory but can't end up in a situation where they're thrown into a massive retreat. I think the writing is on the wall. I think there are plans on both sides of this conflict to see where things sit at the end of this fighting season and pursue a negotiated end to this conflct. If Trump wins, by some miracle, it will definitely go into negotiations. However, even if Harris wins we could still see a negotiated resolution in 2025, I would guess that there is a lot of pressure on the EU side to make that happen particularly from Germany. What on earth would induce Putin to negotiate? He still has no reason to even offer to negotiate, much less actually bargain in anything that looks like good faith. After the Kursk incursion, he's said negotiation is absolutely off the table. |
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Posted: 9/5/2024 4:09:51 PM EST
[#43]
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LA, USA
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Posted: 9/6/2024 1:41:31 PM EST
[#44]
Its been 30 days, Russia, since this started...
Is it over yet? Has the socialist government of Russia rescued its people? 
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Posted: 9/6/2024 1:53:29 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryWere about to find out if losing the logistical hub for the entire front was worth being able to say you have boots in Russia. |
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Posted: 9/6/2024 3:39:07 PM EST
[#46]
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Posted: 9/6/2024 6:55:58 PM EST
[#47]
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Posted: 9/6/2024 7:12:18 PM EST
[#48]
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/6/2024 8:04:20 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryI MAY have my history wrong, as I did not check it, but isn’t this the area the Germans created a bulge and the Russians took both flanks and encircled the entire 6th Corp/Army and the Germans could not resupply them int he winter which is coming??? Think this little excursion is a big mistake unless corrected. |
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Posted: 9/6/2024 8:15:07 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: Were about to find out if losing the logistical hub for the entire front was worth being able to say you have boots in Russia. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: Were about to find out if losing the logistical hub for the entire front was worth being able to say you have boots in Russia. Ooof.  Hopefully that's not the case. I was hoping it would pay off. We needed to prove that trench warfare was still a bad idea. |
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