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Posted: 5/11/2023 3:42:29 PM EDT
[#1]
In before the President of the Zelensky Fan Club.
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Posted: 5/11/2023 3:43:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who knows what to believe. Many Pro Ukes here said it already started. Like a week or so ago. Now Z says it hasn't started yet. It's part of deliberate misinformation. You don't tell your enemies via official statements when any counter offense starts. You use bluffs and fiends to make the enemy think it's happening, but it's actually a diversion. "The truth is so precious it must be surrounded by a bodyguard of lies" -Churchill |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 3:43:09 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even with full recourse's they wont be able to. Ukraine will NEVER take back the land it lost. They couldn't take back Luhansk and Donetsk when it was mainly a Civil War. Now that Russia has had over a year to fully dig in? Its Russian soil at this point. Russia cannot take more then it owns now and Ukraine cannot take it back. Both sides know it but refuse to admit it. Comparative strengths have changed alot the past year. I think it would be prudent to see what happens in the next couple of months before saying "never." |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 3:44:34 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh boy. That you keep posting this stuff even while Prigozhin repeatedly says "Uh, things are kinda shit, prepare for some bad news" is just... *chef's kiss* Its like you're playing a deep double propaganda game specifically designed to illustrate how silly the Russian propaganda is by repeating the slightly out of date stuff right when it passes its sell-by date. Just to highlight the off smell of it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh boy. That you keep posting this stuff even while Prigozhin repeatedly says "Uh, things are kinda shit, prepare for some bad news" is just... *chef's kiss* Its like you're playing a deep double propaganda game specifically designed to illustrate how silly the Russian propaganda is by repeating the slightly out of date stuff right when it passes its sell-by date. Just to highlight the off smell of it. "Prigozhin" Wait, you're referencing the Russian guy who's behind taking Bakhmut as your info source but I'm the one pushing "Russian propaganda" 
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Posted: 5/11/2023 3:46:00 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's part of deliberate misinformation. You don't tell your enemies via official statements when any counter offense starts. You use bluffs and fiends to make the enemy think it's happening, but it's actually a diversion. "The truth is so precious it must be surrounded by a bodyguard of lies" -Churchill Exactly. So everytime you do a probing action on Russian lines, it rattles around through their fetal alcohol syndrome little Russian minds that this is the counteroffensive. And then you see them run and scatter and get crunched under tanks like the other day. |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 3:47:26 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't follow the reports deeply but I haven't heard much about Russian airstrikes destroying large amounts of equipment. Actually, I haven't heard about Russian air strikes in any capacity. Is that claim remotely believable? |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 3:48:36 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Prigozhin" Wait, your siting the Russian guy who's behind taking Bakhmut as your info source but I'm the one pushing "Russian propaganda" Citing him for what? My only "claim" here is that you're pushing an out of date narrative with such hilariously backward results that I can't help but think you're doing it on purpose. Cheers. It is actually genius, if that's what you're doing. |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 3:48:44 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol Some "bio labs" douche on Twitter is a reliable source now? |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 3:48:50 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think so, I've heard almost nothing along those lines. They have routinely made claims that they have destroyed more equipment than has actually been delivered to Ukraine. Like when they claimed they have destroyed more HIMARS than we actually delivered. |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 3:49:56 PM EDT
[#10]
LOL
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Posted: 5/11/2023 3:50:20 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This Clandestine guy sounds like a moron whose FOS. Anyone who cites MacGregor and leaps to conclusions like that either is such or is a willing participant in Russian IO. Zelensky saying that may well be an act of deception, which would be a smart move with precedent. It could also be true. It doesn't mean that the equipment has all been destroyed or that, as one poster asserts, the Ukrainians are incompetent. It may also be a partial truth, as some analysts have posted that ground conditions have not yet gotten suitable for a large-scale offensive. The claim that Ukraine has lost most of its equipment is rather preposterous and one would need to be a fool to believe a claim like that says evidence. The Russia shills will quote anything that supports what they think. They were even caught posting from a "death to America" type Chinese propaganda site recently. |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 3:51:35 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh boy. That you keep posting this stuff even while Prigozhin repeatedly says "Uh, things are kinda shit, prepare for some bad news" is just... *chef's kiss* Its like you're playing a deep double propaganda game specifically designed to illustrate how silly the Russian propaganda is by repeating the slightly out of date stuff right when it passes its sell-by date. Just to highlight the off smell of it. Prigozhin posts a ton of crazy shit, all the time. I commented about why he does it a bit in the Bakhmut thread but he's at war with the UAF, Moscow, and the other PMC's (did you know even Gazprom has a PMC called "Patriot") all at the same time. One day he's throwing a flag on a government building in Bakhmut the next he's telling everyone the Chechens are taking over. If anyone is playing some 4D Deep State Russian Chess it's that guy. If he ends up dead in a car bomb it is literally anyone's guess who did it, because lots of folks want him dead. Anywhoo, check but verify when he says stuff |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 3:51:48 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol Some "bio labs" douche on Twitter is a reliable source now? Hear them out. They're onto something, man. Lol  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 3:53:04 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They have routinely made claims that they have destroyed more equipment than has actually been delivered to Ukraine. Like when they claimed they have destroyed more HIMARS than we actually delivered. |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 3:53:45 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Prigozhin posts a ton of crazy shit, all the time. I commented about why he does it a bit in the Bakhmut thread but he's at war with the UAF, Moscow, and the other PMC's (did you know even Gazprom has a PMC called "Patriot") all at the same time. One day he's throwing a flag on a government building in Bakhmut the next he's telling everyone the Chechens are taking over. If anyone is playing some 4D Deep State Russian Chess it's that guy. If he ends up dead in a car bomb it is literally anyone's guess who did it, because lots of folks want him dead. Anywhoo, check but verify when he says stuff You're right but it isn't just him talking about the Russians having some pretty severe setbacks in Bakhmut |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 3:55:39 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Citing him for what? My only "claim" here is that you're pushing an out of date narrative with such hilariously backward results that I can't help but think you're doing it on purpose. Cheers. It is actually genius, if that's what you're doing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: "Prigozhin" Wait, your siting the Russian guy who's behind taking Bakhmut as your info source but I'm the one pushing "Russian propaganda" Citing him for what? My only "claim" here is that you're pushing an out of date narrative with such hilariously backward results that I can't help but think you're doing it on purpose. Cheers. It is actually genius, if that's what you're doing. Umm, not sure what you mean by "pushing an out of date narrative" but here is where I've been getting info from. Please note the info is only 19 hrs old  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 3:55:59 PM EDT
[#17]
Meanwhile...
Numerous reports in Russian channels about Ukrainian forces having begun a larger offensive in several directions. This follows reports of Wagner struggling in Bakhmut in the recent days. Current reports are very conflicting, some mention Ukrainians moving towards Russian border.… Dmitri (@wartranslated) May 11, 2023 |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 3:57:21 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Sooo? Bakhmut finally fell?  Mostly https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/288245/FvzodL9WIAAJGg-_jpeg-2813346.JPG
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Posted: 5/11/2023 3:57:30 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And when he finally agrees that Crimea is not Ukraine and signs a deal with the NaziTerroristWarCriminalRashistOrcs, the cope will be something to behold Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Zelensky said in the same interview no trade territory for peace so unlikely anytime before Christmas this year. And when he finally agrees that Crimea is not Ukraine and signs a deal with the NaziTerroristWarCriminalRashistOrcs, the cope will be something to behold Welcome, fellow firearms enthusiast. |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 3:59:22 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the Russians can use a Mercenary Company like Wagner, why couldn't Ukraine? Where would they get one? Russia spent a lot of time developing Wagner. |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 4:00:16 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Post something recent.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fv3uBDQWcAwHNjn?format=jpg&name=medium Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sooo? Bakhmut finally fell? Mostly https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/288245/FvzodL9WIAAJGg-_jpeg-2813346.JPG
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fv3uBDQWcAwHNjn?format=jpg&name=medium You mean from the guy with the Ukrainian flag in his bio? Yeah, he seems pretty legit!
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Posted: 5/11/2023 4:00:49 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Umm, not sure what you mean by "pushing an out of date narrative" but here is where I've been getting info from. Please note the info is only 19 hrs old https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/288245/Screenshot_20230511_125115_Brave_jpg-2813364.JPG Yes, that can happen when you focus on a single source of information because it tells you what you want to hear. He's pushing expired meat, too. |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 4:01:10 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We most likely won’t see Ukraine take back much ground that the Russians took. Longer it takes them to attempt the harder it will be for Ukraine to make any meaningful gains. The west slow rolled the aidand didn’t give them what they needed when they needed it. WTF!!! Do you live in some alternate universe or something?? |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 4:01:43 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You mean from the guy with the Ukrainian flag in his bio? Yes. As you pointed out, people with a partisan bias on both sides are BOTH saying the same or similar things. Might mean there's something to it. |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 4:03:57 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is time to negotiate a peace agreement. |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 4:04:05 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
jesus you'd have to be dumb AF to believe that the western equipment has been destroyed...... and equally dumb to believe that their president would announce to their enemy that their planned offensive is delayed |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 4:04:37 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's the rush? |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 4:06:06 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's the rush? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What's the rush? Less death and destruction 
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Posted: 5/11/2023 4:09:04 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Zelensky said in the same interview no trade territory for peace so unlikely anytime before Christmas this year. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It is time to negotiate a peace agreement. Zelensky said in the same interview no trade territory for peace so unlikely anytime before Christmas this year. He can pay for the war himself then. |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 4:10:38 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Less death and destruction Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: What's the rush? Less death and destruction There are people making money off of the death and destruction though. |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 4:12:39 PM EDT
[#31]
Some of you guys need to learn things like Operation Fortitude, The Schlieffen Plan, Schwarzkopf "Left Hook"
Just because Zelensky said the Operation was delayed doesn't mean it. Also reports in Bakhmut could be a feint to concentrate Russians and then hit them on a weakened flank. Ect ect ect. The fact is we don't know. Anybody saying "Haha! See how stupid and incompetent the Ukrainians are! Zelensky is delaying it AGAIN! What an embarrassment!" And guys doing the opposite. None of us really kniw what's going on. That is a feature, not a bug. |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 4:12:45 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Less death and destruction Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: What's the rush? Less death and destruction This. Russia's not going to take anymore of Ukraine and Ukraine is not going to push Russia out, both sides have to know this. People are suffering and dying for nothing now. If we had someone worth a crap in the White House this would be over in a week. |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 4:16:18 PM EDT
[#33]
Better no counter offensive than one that fails and results in the attacking forces getting routed.
Use the war gear you've been given to defend what you've got left and make the Russians pay. That seems to be the kind of "victory" our amoral, neocon led, government has planned for Ukraine. |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 4:20:39 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought Ukr had more tanks now then when the war started. Hard to keep up with the bullshit This |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 4:27:07 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He can pay for the war himself then. Septemberish I’ll try to dedicate time towards FY 2024 aid talk. I’ve been trying to keep general tab on Congress budget situation as well as Defense budget progress up to this point but my impression is September is when more Ukraine aid gets debated. Haven’t had as much time to track European aid but a couple countries followed thru from summer 2022 promises while most did not at least to the degree implied or stated. That being said not sure if you saw this link I posted previously https://www.defensenews.com/global/2023/05/03/eu-pledges-over-1-billion-to-refresh-its-arms-factories-for-ukraine/ |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 4:29:30 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can't tell if this is trolling..... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ukraine needs more air power. No deep armored thrusts can be conducted without air superiority unless they're willing to accept a massive risk in terms of lost hardware and man power. Ukraine needs control of the skies. The fastest way to achieve that and to insure that Ukraine does NOT expand the war into Russian territory is to allow Ukraine to hire a Private Military Company that will supply air wings and the support like the Flying Tigers did for China in WW2 against Japan. It's a literal "turn-key" solution without legacy costs for Ukraine and that could be done very efficiently both financially and time wise. If the Russians can use a Mercenary Company like Wagner, why couldn't Ukraine? Can't tell if this is trolling..... Some of what he posts sounds like a high-brow version of Russian trolling/IO, some is just dumb or not sensible while also made to sound smarter than it is, like his assertion that Ukraine can only win if it conquers Russia itself, and some things seem genuinely insightful and intelligent. He's a tough one to pin down. In this case, it's a mix of the last two. Using mercs to fly donated or purchased Western aircraft would be a good course as would Western governments facilitating it. I wouldn't be opposed to Western militaries seconding airmen to Ukraine's military, something they have done for other countries in the past, including during the Cold War era. |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 4:33:19 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even with full recourse's they wont be able to. Ukraine will NEVER take back the land it lost. They couldn't take back Luhansk and Donetsk when it was mainly a Civil War. Now that Russia has had over a year to fully dig in? Its Russian soil at this point. Russia cannot take more then it owns now and Ukraine cannot take it back. Both sides know it but refuse to admit it. It was never genuinely a civil war. Russia invaded in 2014 and used proxies both for some deniability to some aspects and also to give it the veneer of a civil war, although some of those proxy units had Russian troops just like in South Ossetia in 2008. The Ukrainian military now is also a very different animal from what it was in 2014. Ukraine also already took back a lot of land captured earlier in the conflict by Russia. |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 4:36:58 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He can pay for the war himself then. Right now lot of posturing but we’ll see how House vs Senate pans out before October 1 unless they CR again https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3995596-mcconnell-predicts-us-aid-will-flow-to-ukraine-for-a-good-deal-longer/amp/ |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 4:40:38 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He can pay for the war himself then. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-debt-ceiling-standoff-talks-look-covid-clawbacks-energy-permits-2023-05-10/ |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 4:42:14 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Septemberish I’ll try to dedicate time towards FY 2024 aid talk. I’ve been trying to keep general tab on Congress budget situation as well as Defense budget progress up to this point but my impression is September is when more Ukraine aid gets debated. Haven’t had as much time to track European aid but a couple countries followed thru from summer 2022 promises while most did not at least to the degree implied or stated. That being said not sure if you saw this link I posted previously https://www.defensenews.com/global/2023/05/03/eu-pledges-over-1-billion-to-refresh-its-arms-factories-for-ukraine/ Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: He can pay for the war himself then. Septemberish I’ll try to dedicate time towards FY 2024 aid talk. I’ve been trying to keep general tab on Congress budget situation as well as Defense budget progress up to this point but my impression is September is when more Ukraine aid gets debated. Haven’t had as much time to track European aid but a couple countries followed thru from summer 2022 promises while most did not at least to the degree implied or stated. That being said not sure if you saw this link I posted previously https://www.defensenews.com/global/2023/05/03/eu-pledges-over-1-billion-to-refresh-its-arms-factories-for-ukraine/ Always good to invest in ammo. |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 4:43:40 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shocking Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So it looks like those leaked documents were correct in their assessment the Ukrainians aren't as competent and capable as the propaganda shows. Shocking Indeed. |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 4:44:19 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're right but it isn't just him talking about the Russians having some pretty severe setbacks in Bakhmut It sounds like it. I saw the same videos you did with the guys retreating from their trenches and the Prighozin yelling at the camera. We should really know what that looks like tonight would be my guess. |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 4:49:30 PM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 5/11/2023 4:55:22 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Always good to invest in ammo. Personally I’m trying to get my financial house in order so I can make investment and financial decisions at this time under the assumption 2024-2030 will be chaotic even beyond what 2020-2023 was and inflation doesn’t appear to be heading out the door so it’s a real crunch on me after a lifetime of bad financial choices plus bad luck compounding that. On a side note back before my ex got the house and everything in the divorce, I was debating investing in reloading way before ammo prices went full retard but the ex was already on my ass for my firearm “enthusiasms” as it was. Still a sore spot reflecting on that time period 
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Posted: 5/11/2023 4:56:19 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol Some "bio labs" douche on Twitter is a reliable source now? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted:
Lol Some "bio labs" douche on Twitter is a reliable source now? Quoting Douglas Macgregor no less   
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Posted: 5/11/2023 4:56:29 PM EDT
[#46]
Let them fight without us for we are broke. And as a country we are even more broken.
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Posted: 5/11/2023 5:07:34 PM EDT
[#47]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 5/11/2023 5:09:33 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some of you guys need to learn things like Operation Fortitude, The Schlieffen Plan, Schwarzkopf "Left Hook" Just because Zelensky said the Operation was delayed doesn't mean it. Also reports in Bakhmut could be a feint to concentrate Russians and then hit them on a weekend flank. Ect ect ect. The fact is we don't know. Anybody saying "Haha! See how stupid and incompetent the Ukrainians are! Zelensky is delaying it AGAIN! What an embarrassment!" And guys doing the opposite. None of us really kniw what's going on. That is a feature, not a bug. It's pretty much this. Both sides do tons of this stuff. You essentially need multiple third party sources, who've put in the leg work, to even make an educated guess So much noise out there |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 5:12:00 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Personally I’m trying to get my financial house in order so I can make investment and financial decisions at this time under the assumption 2024-2030 will be chaotic even beyond what 2020-2023 was and inflation doesn’t appear to be heading out the door so it’s a real crunch on me after a lifetime of bad financial choices plus bad luck compounding that. On a side note back before my ex got the house and everything in the divorce, I was debating investing in reloading way before ammo prices went full retard but the ex was already on my ass for my firearm “enthusiasms” as it was. Still a sore spot reflecting on that time period Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Always good to invest in ammo. Personally I’m trying to get my financial house in order so I can make investment and financial decisions at this time under the assumption 2024-2030 will be chaotic even beyond what 2020-2023 was and inflation doesn’t appear to be heading out the door so it’s a real crunch on me after a lifetime of bad financial choices plus bad luck compounding that. On a side note back before my ex got the house and everything in the divorce, I was debating investing in reloading way before ammo prices went full retard but the ex was already on my ass for my firearm “enthusiasms” as it was. Still a sore spot reflecting on that time period I am kicking myself I didn’t buy more years ago. Now only shoot 22 and air on a regular basis, it is rare I shoot centerfire. |
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Posted: 5/11/2023 5:15:10 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some of you guys need to learn things like Operation Fortitude, The Schlieffen Plan, Schwarzkopf "Left Hook" Just because Zelensky said the Operation was delayed doesn't mean it. Also reports in Bakhmut could be a feint to concentrate Russians and then hit them on a weakened flank. Ect ect ect. The fact is we don't know. Anybody saying "Haha! See how stupid and incompetent the Ukrainians are! Zelensky is delaying it AGAIN! What an embarrassment!" And guys doing the opposite. None of us really kniw what's going on. That is a feature, not a bug. |
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