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Originally Posted By Harv24: That pic is full of irony...Dude is sitting on a German made Leopard 2A4 Main battle tank... and those "x" shaped pads on the front slope....are snow grousers to supplement the rubber track Pads...in a Desert. View Quote It snows in northern Syria. It definitely snows in Turkey, which is where the tank came from. There are no Turks in the south/central desert region. |
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Originally Posted By daemon734: It snows in northern Syria. It definitely snows in Turkey, which is where the tank came from. There are no Turks in the south/central desert region. View Quote Well, there goes the irony... |
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Just Drop... Buckethead!
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Originally Posted By hoosierhick: The wwii after wwii website had an article a couple of years ago that talked about why they were firing the gun like that. It's about 2/3 of the way down the page here. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By hoosierhick: Originally Posted By 58Teague: Qualifies as uncommon. Houthi fighter firing the main gun of a Soviet-era T34/85 during the current civil war. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eb87z5DWkAEATvJ?format=jpg&name=900x900 The wwii after wwii website had an article a couple of years ago that talked about why they were firing the gun like that. It's about 2/3 of the way down the page here. As another poster stated, that was an interesting article. There is a remote firing kit available for the Abrams when an M1A1 or M1A2 comes back from depot-level rebuild (or even IROAN'd, which was a waste of money and amounted to basically a $30,000.00 paint job). The maintenance section test fires the main gun on a range (usually the screening range prior to gunnery) with a Training Practice Tracer (TPT) sabot or TPT HEAT / MPAT round after delivery to the unit to ensure everything stays glued together. I've done this, and we crouched behind the rear of the hull after manually aiming and then loading the main gun. Armor collectors here in the U.S. have actually died when the breach ring catastrophically failed upon firing the main gun with improvised, hand assembled main gun ammunition. As of the late 1980s, the last US Army soldier or soldiers that died from a blown breach ring / tube was in the 1950s. I imagine that holds true today. New barrels are generally not included with even a complete rebuild since they are expensive (I want to say under 25 large) and the DoD wants to get as much life out of a tube as possible prior to it being scrapped. In other words, they get used until they absolutely can't be used anymore. The only new barrels I've ever seen on an Abrams were the 14 tanks our company took delivery of straight from the factory in 1991. With that in mind, the barrel and breach ring have a finite life, which is determined by the number and type of rounds fired. Each type of ammunition has different Effective Full Charge (EFC) values (1, 2, 3, 4, etc.). TPT rounds have the lowest EFC value which translates into a higher number of rounds that can be fired through any given barrel before it's deemed unserviceable. For example, the max EFC for an M256 series breach ring (think of it as a receiver that the main gun barrel is attached to) is 4,500 EFCs, which translates to 4,500 rounds of tank ammunition with an EFC value of 1, or a total of three barrels if everything that was fired was TPT. Each Tube for the M256 series has a max tube life of 1,500 EFCs (or 1,500 rounds if the EFC value of the ammo was 1). Every time the main gun is fired on a range or even in combat, that information is recorded in a maintenance log book kept for each tank. Prior to gunnery or deployment, the bores are inspected with the use of a borescope to look for hairline cracks developing around the high stress areas such as near the bore evacuator due to the vent holes compromising the structural strength of the tube. This is challenging because there is .5 mm of hard chrome plating that tends to flake off and the metal corrodes or erodes underneath where the hard chrome plating had been. It's a process that requires at least some experience to know what to look for. Additionally, US and western / NATO tank ammunition is carefully manufactured to very high QC standards with propellants designed specifically for large caliber cannons and held to strict velocity and pressure curves so that barrel and breach ring longevity can be predicted as precisely as possible. While tube life for the M256 series 120mm cannon is 1,500 EFCs, I can only imagine that TACOM and Watervliet Arsenal have built in a "buffer" of at least 2X the stated service life so that if the number of EFCs are exceeded in combat, the barrel and breach ring will still hold together. Artillery truly is supported and made possible by applied science. As an aside, it's my understanding that tubes are now being "reclaimed" and relined with hard chrome prior to reissue. Anyway, the upshot of all this is that foreign nations in the USSR / WP sphere didn't have the ability to produce cannon tubes that lasted as long as those made in western nations like Watervliet in NY or in The Fatherland by Rheinmetall, so the barrels have a much lower service life to begin with (as few as 500 rounds for Cold War-era MBTs like the T-55 through the T-72). Beyond that, I doubt if there is any maintenance beyond operator (or "10 level) PMCS in "armies" or militias where there isn't any technical or maintenance support by exporters such as Russia, which means those breach rings and tubes can fail at any time. That becomes a messy affair for anyone in the turret when something gives. Couple that with improvised ammunition cobbled together with the wrong propellant's, and it truly is the will of Allah if A-hab The A-rab survives a main gun engagement in places like Yemen or Syria. In fact, I assume that this has become a significant problem for irregular operators since firing by remote sounds like it's common practice now. Operational and logistical support needed to keep tanks in fighting condition is extensive, and established through decades of experience learned the hard way. I doubt if the average Arab is even capable of such a level of support due to poor education and cultural barriers combined with the lack of a required work ethic. |
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I require alcohol, red meat, hot naked women, and large quantities of small arms and ammo. My other hobbies are soft, furry bunny rabbits, pretty butterflies, and balloons in pastel colors.
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Originally Posted By 58Teague: I realize that we don't defend the fulda gap anymore, but is every combat round recorded, or does it become an educated guess after a 30 hr operation? For the Yemen T34: the article says they were firing solid lead shots. Almost doesn't seem worth the risk of firing if you just bury the round into the dirt with no damage done to the infantry 2 feet to the left. Plus any 12.7 or 14.5 MG can engage any light armored stuff you come across. View Quote Might be worth it to punch through mud/concrete walls. Mostly it's about raising spirits; having tank support is a morale boost (even if it's an antique). |
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"you ought to listen to our resident Swede, he's genetically superior." -Bohr_Adam
"They are superior beings those Swedes." -RockHard13F |
Originally Posted By USMCTanker: As another poster stated, that was an interesting article. There is a remote firing kit available for the Abrams when an M1A1 or M1A2 comes back from depot-level rebuild (or even IROAN'd, which was a waste of money and amounted to basically a $30,000.00 paint job). The maintenance section test fires the main gun on a range (usually the screening range prior to gunnery) with a Training Practice Tracer (TPT) sabot or TPT HEAT / MPAT round after delivery to the unit to ensure everything stays glued together. I've done this, and we crouched behind the rear of the hull after manually aiming and then loading the main gun. Armor collectors here in the U.S. have actually died when the breach ring catastrophically failed upon firing the main gun with improvised, hand assembled main gun ammunition. As of the late 1980s, the last US Army soldier or soldiers that died from a blown breach ring / tube was in the 1950s. I imagine that holds true today. New barrels are generally not included with even a complete rebuild since they are expensive (I want to say under 25 large) and the DoD wants to get as much life out of a tube as possible prior to it being scrapped. In other words, they get used until they absolutely can't be used anymore. The only new barrels I've ever seen on an Abrams were the 14 tanks our company took delivery of straight from the factory in 1991. With that in mind, the barrel and breach ring have a finite life, which is determined by the number and type of rounds fired. Each type of ammunition has different Effective Full Charge (EFC) values (1, 2, 3, 4, etc.). TPT rounds have the lowest EFC value which translates into a higher number of rounds that can be fired through any given barrel before it's deemed unserviceable. For example, the max EFC for an M256 series breach ring (think of it as a receiver that the main gun barrel is attached to) is 4,500 EFCs, which translates to 4,500 rounds of tank ammunition with an EFC value of 1, or a total of three barrels if everything that was fired was TPT. Each Tube for the M256 series has a max tube life of 1,500 EFCs (or 1,500 rounds if the EFC value of the ammo was 1). Every time the main gun is fired on a range or even in combat, that information is recorded in a maintenance log book kept for each tank. Prior to gunnery or deployment, the bores are inspected with the use of a borescope to look for hairline cracks developing around the high stress areas such as near the bore evacuator due to the vent holes compromising the structural strength of the tube. This is challenging because there is .5 mm of hard chrome plating that tends to flake off and the metal corrodes or erodes underneath where the hard chrome plating had been. It's a process that requires at least some experience to know what to look for. Additionally, US and western / NATO tank ammunition is carefully manufactured to very high QC standards with propellants designed specifically for large caliber cannons and held to strict velocity and pressure curves so that barrel and breach ring longevity can be predicted as precisely as possible. While tube life for the M256 series 120mm cannon is 1,500 EFCs, I can only imagine that TACOM and Watervliet Arsenal have built in a "buffer" of at least 2X the stated service life so that if the number of EFCs are exceeded in combat, the barrel and breach ring will still hold together. Artillery truly is supported and made possible by applied science. As an aside, it's my understanding that tubes are now being "reclaimed" and relined with hard chrome prior to reissue. Anyway, the upshot of all this is that foreign nations in the USSR / WP sphere didn't have the ability to produce cannon tubes that lasted as long as those made in western nations like Watervliet in NY or in The Fatherland by Rheinmetall, so the barrels have a much lower service life to begin with (as few as 500 rounds for Cold War-era MBTs like the T-55 through the T-72). Beyond that, I doubt if there is any maintenance beyond operator (or "10 level) PMCS in "armies" or militias where there isn't any technical or maintenance support by exporters such as Russia, which means those breach rings and tubes can fail at any time. That becomes a messy affair for anyone in the turret when something gives. Couple that with improvised ammunition cobbled together with the wrong propellant's, and it truly is the will of Allah if A-hab The A-rab survives a main gun engagement in places like Yemen or Syria. In fact, I assume that this has become a significant problem for irregular operators since firing by remote sounds like it's common practice now. Operational and logistical support needed to keep tanks in fighting condition is extensive, and established through decades of experience learned the hard way. I doubt if the average Arab is even capable of such a level of support due to poor education and cultural barriers combined with the lack of a required work ethic. View Quote Nice write-up. I had no idea about round count on tank guns. I wonder how that compares to ships. I knew a guy who died in the USS Iowa turret explosion, but that was not a breach or barrel failure. |
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Some threads are too epic to die!
I didn't get a single gun in this thread for XMAS either |
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"I WAS ON THE FRONT LINES! I PISSED IN FRONT OF THE COPS, NOT YOU!" -Goocheese
I didnt have "The Confederacy gets a kill" on my 2020 bingo card - USNGM2 |
Originally Posted By 58Teague: Sudanese rebel holding a Franchi LF57 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkTaa5CWsAASik0?format=jpg&name=medium http://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/lf57side.jpg View Quote Ooh, a dead squirrel! |
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Originally Posted By 58Teague: I realize that we don't defend the Fulda gap anymore, but is every combat round recorded, or does it become an educated guess after a 30 hr operation? For the Yemen T34: the article says they were firing solid lead shots. Almost doesn't seem worth the risk of firing if you just bury the round into the dirt with no damage done to the infantry 2 feet to the left. Plus any 12.7 or 14.5 MG can engage any light armored stuff you come across. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By 58Teague: Originally Posted By USMCTanker: With that in mind, the barrel and breach ring have a finite life, which is determined by the number and type of rounds fired. Each type of ammunition has different Effective Full Charge (EFC) values (1, 2, 3, 4, etc.). TPT rounds have the lowest EFC value which translates into a higher number of rounds that can be fired through any given barrel before it's deemed unserviceable. For example, the max EFC for an M256 series breach ring (think of it as a receiver that the main gun barrel is attached to) is 4,500 EFCs, which translates to 4,500 rounds of tank ammunition with an EFC value of 1, or a total of three barrels if everything that was fired was TPT. Each Tube for the M256 series has a max tube life of 1,500 EFCs (or 1,500 rounds if the EFC value of the ammo was 1). Every time the main gun is fired on a range or even in combat, that information is recorded in a maintenance log book kept for each tank. Prior to gunnery or deployment, the bores are inspected with the use of a borescope to look for hairline cracks developing around the high stress areas such as near the bore evacuator due to the vent holes compromising the structural strength of the tube. This is challenging because there is .5 mm of hard chrome plating that tends to flake off and the metal corrodes or erodes underneath where the hard chrome plating had been. It's a process that requires at least some experience to know what to look for. Anyway, the upshot of all this is that foreign nations in the USSR / WP sphere didn't have the ability to produce cannon tubes that lasted as long as those made in western nations like Watervliet in NY or in The Fatherland by Rheinmetall, so the barrels have a much lower service life to begin with (as few as 500 rounds for Cold War-era MBTs like the T-55 through the T-72). Beyond that, I doubt if there is any maintenance beyond operator (or "10 level) PMCS in "armies" or militias where there isn't any technical or maintenance support by exporters such as Russia, which means those breach rings and tubes can fail at any time. That becomes a messy affair for anyone in the turret when something gives. Couple that with improvised ammunition cobbled together with the wrong propellant's, and it truly is the will of Allah if A-hab The A-rab survives a main gun engagement in places like Yemen or Syria. In fact, I assume that this has become a significant problem for irregular operators since firing by remote sounds like it's common practice now. I realize that we don't defend the Fulda gap anymore, but is every combat round recorded, or does it become an educated guess after a 30 hr operation? For the Yemen T34: the article says they were firing solid lead shots. Almost doesn't seem worth the risk of firing if you just bury the round into the dirt with no damage done to the infantry 2 feet to the left. Plus any 12.7 or 14.5 MG can engage any light armored stuff you come across. The intent is to be accurate of course but yea, 30 hours of high-intensity operations against enemy hard targets would probably require a close guestimate based on the number of times the ready and semi-ready ammo racks or "honeycombs" were refilled by the log packs after you dropped off your KIA / WIA (if any) and refueled. Obviously, peacetime safety protocols tend to be ignored during wartime. Armor in low-intensity operations (is that term even used anymore?) in support of the infantry would probably be easier to keep record of, as you could imagine. ETA: Fire a tank main gun solid projectile short of but in close proximity to dismounts and you can still do some damage to the soft tissue of humans, to say nothing of taking out bunkers or other stationary targets like a parked "technical". |
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I require alcohol, red meat, hot naked women, and large quantities of small arms and ammo. My other hobbies are soft, furry bunny rabbits, pretty butterflies, and balloons in pastel colors.
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Originally Posted By 58Teague: A pistol made from a French MAS-36 bolt-action rifle for sale in #Idlib. The interesting point is that the barrel is swapped with a 7.62x51 one. $40 and this is yours. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtawV9JXcAEJmnn?format=jpg&name=large View Quote Yeah fuck all that noise Imagine the recoil, and muzzle flash |
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"I WAS ON THE FRONT LINES! I PISSED IN FRONT OF THE COPS, NOT YOU!" -Goocheese
I didnt have "The Confederacy gets a kill" on my 2020 bingo card - USNGM2 |
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Originally Posted By 58Teague: A pistol made from a French MAS-36 bolt-action rifle for sale in #Idlib. The interesting point is that the barrel is swapped with a 7.62x51 one. $40 and this is yours. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtawV9JXcAEJmnn?format=jpg&name=large View Quote That thing looks.... stunning. |
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Originally Posted By 58Teague: A pistol made from a French MAS-36 bolt-action rifle for sale in #Idlib. The interesting point is that the barrel is swapped with a 7.62x51 one. $40 and this is yours. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtawV9JXcAEJmnn?format=jpg&name=large View Quote Nurmrich used to sell the whole rifles for $36. That's a whole lot of work for a $4 payday. |
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Originally Posted By 58Teague: Something extremely unusual captured in Bani Na'im, West Bank, 2017. 2 WW2 LeeEnfield No. 4 Mk1/2 .303 Bolt Action Rifles, converted to fire 5.56mm ammunition from 20rnd M16 Magazines! Trijicon ACOGs have been crudely welded to the rifles. IDF Slings & Ammo box can be seen too.-CalibreObscura https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dv7S9nYW0AIxnK3?format=jpg&name=large View Quote |
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F’ You and the Horse You Rode in on.
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Originally Posted By 58Teague: Russian AO-2.5 RTM HE-Frag submuntions. ~300gr of TG-40 Syria https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct8FxBQWIAAQtyW?format=jpg&name=large Innards of a PPM-2 APERS mine-Yemen https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3AgAl2WIAEliDt?format=jpg&name=mediumhttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3AgBKOWEAIVaIj?format=jpg&name=medium Training variant of a Kh-28 anti-radar missile found in Mosul https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3JEtdYWYAET6Vd?format=jpg&name=900x900 View Quote What is going on in the top picture? It looks like a bread cart flipped. Is that the explosive? Why would they pull it out/ruin it? |
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Originally Posted By 58Teague: This focus on ATGMs leads me to here. Seriously. I started with this tweet a month or two ago and ended with Abu Tow after researching. Extremely rare Milan used in Afghanistan. Can't help but wonder how that conflict would have changed if there had been a proliferation of ATGM usage like you see in Iraq/Syria.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUfyQEwX0AEUDWU?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 View Quote I've seen pics of Milans in Afghanistan in the 1980's, perhaps leftovers from then? |
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RIP Ed Avila
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Originally Posted By swede1986: Might be worth it to punch through mud/concrete walls. Mostly it's about raising spirits; having tank support is a morale boost (even if it's an antique). View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By swede1986: Originally Posted By 58Teague: I realize that we don't defend the fulda gap anymore, but is every combat round recorded, or does it become an educated guess after a 30 hr operation? For the Yemen T34: the article says they were firing solid lead shots. Almost doesn't seem worth the risk of firing if you just bury the round into the dirt with no damage done to the infantry 2 feet to the left. Plus any 12.7 or 14.5 MG can engage any light armored stuff you come across. Might be worth it to punch through mud/concrete walls. Mostly it's about raising spirits; having tank support is a morale boost (even if it's an antique). I wonder if they make any home brew cannister rounds. |
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Originally Posted By Theodoric: Originally Posted By 58Teague: Something extremely unusual captured in Bani Na'im, West Bank, 2017. 2 WW2 LeeEnfield No. 4 Mk1/2 .303 Bolt Action Rifles, converted to fire 5.56mm ammunition from 20rnd M16 Magazines! Trijicon ACOGs have been crudely welded to the rifles. IDF Slings & Ammo box can be seen too.-CalibreObscura https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dv7S9nYW0AIxnK3?format=jpg&name=large Isn't it though? If the modification to those two rifles to 5.56mm works, I've got to hand it to whoever did the conversion. Enfield aren't known for being easy to rebarrel to begin with, let alone the other engineering and machining that must have gone into that project. Also, those poor Enfields. |
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I require alcohol, red meat, hot naked women, and large quantities of small arms and ammo. My other hobbies are soft, furry bunny rabbits, pretty butterflies, and balloons in pastel colors.
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Originally Posted By 58Teague: Random shop in Darra. When you see it... https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EoZ-XRYXUAMZ8eg?format=jpg&name=small View Quote Look at that SIG 550’ish stock on the ppsh. |
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Originally Posted By 58Teague: Sig Yemen https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/405668/Screenshot_20201216170041_png-1734257.JPGhttps://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/405668/Screenshot_20201216170026_png-1734258.JPG View Quote 552 |
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Originally Posted By 58Teague: Russian in Syria with a SR-2 9x21mm Smg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqlFpTsW8AAeStD?format=jpg&name=large https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/battlefield/images/7/79/SR-2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140304163520 View Quote Hell yeah, that's a brand new gun I've never heard about until now. The smgs are where my heart lies |
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"I WAS ON THE FRONT LINES! I PISSED IN FRONT OF THE COPS, NOT YOU!" -Goocheese
I didnt have "The Confederacy gets a kill" on my 2020 bingo card - USNGM2 |
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Originally Posted By 58Teague: Photo of a Russian spetsnaz sniper, allegedly in Syria, with a South African Truvelo CMS 338 Lapua and an American-made PVS-14 NVG on his scope. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqvPWoBWMAA9Ktu?format=jpg&name=large View Quote Slick attachment method. PVS-27s/CNVDs are overrated. |
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Originally Posted By 58Teague: Somewhere in Syria. Imagine copying that quad rail, cheese grater look... just for feels. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrN8b2FXgAACFAI?format=jpg&name=largehttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrN8acPWYAAXWAA?format=jpg&name=large View Quote It's a wooden copy of an old VLTOR slotted handguard. |
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brought back to be a half-dead, Shortbus riding seat warmer in the Dracula factory.
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Question...
I notice a lot of anti-material rifles posted here. Is that because we gun guys find them interesting and post those pics, or is it because they are being heavily used in the ME? If the latter, what are the tactics that are being employed with the AM rifles? What are they shooting with them? |
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Originally Posted By 58Teague: They aren't that common. I post them here because they are usually ridiculous in size and quality
View Quote Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying! |
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I want one of those little Italian Tankettes....
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Just Drop... Buckethead!
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