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Hard to watch today...but man if you're LT bullish on stuff, some of the option opportunities out there today are quite difficult to resist.
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I'm glad I got busy and couldn't buy to lose more...I need that pps down. Guess I'll wait and see what Monday looks like..
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Originally Posted By oldno7: MVIS dropped so fast to $2.85, as soon as it hit, I put a buy in for $2.87, it never filled. I'll leave it there and see if I get it later. With indices off 2%+ across the board, I think I have a fair chance. Afternoon sell off? edit--just took a bunch of money out of UPST, needs a place to go. https://i.gyazo.com/4e57e095dd680a624b7d1f1a47500daa.png View Quote |
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Did Mavis get a Dirtface45/TheDirtWagon bump in the last 30 minutes?
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The Frog is Pepe. Someone shouts Hey Pepe @ Hillary rally, then Roger Stone Jedi Mindfucked someone in the Hillary campaign by putting Pepe in the Deplorables meme and now the shit is getting real.
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"Republic, I like the sound of the word. It means people can live free, talk free, go or come, buy or sell, be drunk or sober however they choose." John Wayne
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The Frog is Pepe. Someone shouts Hey Pepe @ Hillary rally, then Roger Stone Jedi Mindfucked someone in the Hillary campaign by putting Pepe in the Deplorables meme and now the shit is getting real.
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Mvis up even if only a few cents while the nasdaq is down over 300 points and dow almost a 1,000
I'll consider that a win |
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Forgot cannot buy shares under $3 unless cash is settled. Fantastic, guess I wasn't able to get my avg down today.
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Originally Posted By Glock63: What is catching your eye? View Quote Synthetic longs for me. Sell put/buy call for far out expirations and the same strike price for both contracts were paying ~25% credit. In this setup, the put is currently ITM (on something I'd be happy to buy) and the call is OTM, so premium is reduced. The put premium is also juiced with the large moves to the downside in the indices. The premium from selling the put more than covers the cost of buying the call, and I get immediate cash for the difference. If the underlying goes up 33% between now and 2024, the puts go OTM and have had time decay, so they can be bought back cheaper than I sold them for (=profit), and the calls, which were net free to me, are now ITM and can be sold at a profit. Ultimately, for approximately the same cost today in cash of buying 100 shares (like, within 2% difference), I keep my cash in my acct (and could technically withdraw the cash and secure the put against margin buying power), have unlimited profit potential to the upside with the financial leverage of calls, and if the price goes down and I get assigned, it's the same as if I bought shares today and never sold them (but had a free lotto ticket). That's as close to free opportunity as I've been able to find. |
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Originally Posted By cmsnare: Synthetic longs for me. Sell put/buy call for far out expirations and the same strike price for both contracts were paying ~25% credit. In this setup, the put is currently ITM (on something I'd be happy to buy) and the call is OTM, so premium is reduced. The put premium is also juiced with the large moves to the downside in the indices. The premium from selling the put more than covers the cost of buying the call, and I get immediate cash for the difference. If the underlying goes up 33% between now and 2024, the puts go OTM and have had time decay, so they can be bought back cheaper than I sold them for (=profit), and the calls, which were net free to me, are now ITM and can be sold at a profit. Ultimately, for approximately the same cost today in cash of buying 100 shares (like, within 2% difference), I keep my cash in my acct (and could technically withdraw the cash and secure the put against margin buying power), have unlimited profit potential to the upside with the financial leverage of calls, and if the price goes down and I get assigned, it's the same as if I bought shares today and never sold them (but had a free lotto ticket). That's as close to free opportunity as I've been able to find. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By cmsnare: Originally Posted By Glock63: What is catching your eye? Synthetic longs for me. Sell put/buy call for far out expirations and the same strike price for both contracts were paying ~25% credit. In this setup, the put is currently ITM (on something I'd be happy to buy) and the call is OTM, so premium is reduced. The put premium is also juiced with the large moves to the downside in the indices. The premium from selling the put more than covers the cost of buying the call, and I get immediate cash for the difference. If the underlying goes up 33% between now and 2024, the puts go OTM and have had time decay, so they can be bought back cheaper than I sold them for (=profit), and the calls, which were net free to me, are now ITM and can be sold at a profit. Ultimately, for approximately the same cost today in cash of buying 100 shares (like, within 2% difference), I keep my cash in my acct (and could technically withdraw the cash and secure the put against margin buying power), have unlimited profit potential to the upside with the financial leverage of calls, and if the price goes down and I get assigned, it's the same as if I bought shares today and never sold them (but had a free lotto ticket). That's as close to free opportunity as I've been able to find. Fantastic post. Is there a specific name for this strategy? Are the expiration dates on the contracts the same? If not, what's a good rule of thumb for distance between expirations? How far out do you look for these types of trades? I see 2024 mentioned. 1-2 years? Thanks. |
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R.I.P. Jeff Hanneman (1964-2013)
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Originally Posted By nolan7120: Fantastic post. Is there a specific name for this strategy? Are the expiration dates on the contracts the same? If not, what's a good rule of thumb for distance between expirations? How far out do you look for these types of trades? I see 2024 mentioned. 1-2 years? Thanks. View Quote Typically called a "synthetic long". Synthetic indicating that derivatives are used instead of the actual underlying asset, long indicating that it replicates being long the underlying asset (if price goes up, I profit, if it goes down I lose). For the timing, it's really up to you. A true, vanilla synthetic has the same expiration date of both the short and the long legs, but you can do calendar or ratio offsets if you want (for example, long expiration on the short put, but buy multiple calls for shorter expirations using the premium from the put). The time value in the premium (assuming same expiration) between the two contracts should be relatively the same, so it's the current intrinsic value of the put plus some volatility premium that's being paid to me in cash and reducing my max loss. Since I'm replicating a long position my big opportunity is when the price of the underlying asset appreciates, so the more time I have to "win" is usually in my favor, especially since I'm fighting against the time decay of my call. |
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View Quote No kidding. Reading that post makes it crystal clear why I dont do this for a living haha. |
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"Republic, I like the sound of the word. It means people can live free, talk free, go or come, buy or sell, be drunk or sober however they choose." John Wayne
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What a massacre.
Anyone doing the CLM rights offering? |
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Where's the Kaboom?! There's supposed to be an Earth-shattering Kaboom!
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Originally Posted By Glock63: No kidding. Reading that post makes it crystal clear why I dont do this for a living haha. View Quote My feeble attempt to outline cmsnare's synthetic long, although my example maybe won't be so long. Sell an MVIS $3 put, 20 May for $40. Buy an MVIS $4 call, 20 May for $16. ( in this example you could even get 2 calls ) Pocket $24 and wait. ( $8 if you buy 2 calls ) Fees for me would be $2 ( or $3 ). Must have $300 buying power (margin or cash) to cover the put if MVIS drops. If MVIS moves to $4 or greater by 20 May or really anytime up to that date you can buy back the put and sell the call(s). |
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Where's the Kaboom?! There's supposed to be an Earth-shattering Kaboom!
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Originally Posted By Total53: Yep, my uh so called portfolio is worn down past nubs, nubbins is the only thing left. Let's do some morning exercises to distract us from our financial failures, like touch your toes. https://media.giphy.com/media/X6LwUQyrhlqcE/giphy.gif View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Total53: Originally Posted By apexcrusade: What a massacre. Yep, my uh so called portfolio is worn down past nubs, nubbins is the only thing left. Let's do some morning exercises to distract us from our financial failures, like touch your toes. https://media.giphy.com/media/X6LwUQyrhlqcE/giphy.gif Good Lord there, fella! That there's enough to distract a man! Anyone doing the CLM rights offering? |
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Originally Posted By Total53: Yep, my uh so called portfolio is worn down past nubs, nubbins is the only thing left. Let's do some morning exercises to distract us from our financial failures, like touch your toes. https://media.giphy.com/media/X6LwUQyrhlqcE/giphy.gif View Quote |
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Originally Posted By Total53: Yep, my uh so called portfolio is worn down past nubs, nubbins is the only thing left. Let's do some morning exercises to distract us from our financial failures, like touch your toes. https://media.giphy.com/media/X6LwUQyrhlqcE/giphy.gif View Quote |
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Originally Posted By cmsnare: Typically called a "synthetic long". Synthetic indicating that derivatives are used instead of the actual underlying asset, long indicating that it replicates being long the underlying asset (if price goes up, I profit, if it goes down I lose). For the timing, it's really up to you. A true, vanilla synthetic has the same expiration date of both the short and the long legs, but you can do calendar or ratio offsets if you want (for example, long expiration on the short put, but buy multiple calls for shorter expirations using the premium from the put). The time value in the premium (assuming same expiration) between the two contracts should be relatively the same, so it's the current intrinsic value of the put plus some volatility premium that's being paid to me in cash and reducing my max loss. Since I'm replicating a long position my big opportunity is when the price of the underlying asset appreciates, so the more time I have to "win" is usually in my favor, especially since I'm fighting against the time decay of my call. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By cmsnare: Originally Posted By nolan7120: Fantastic post. Is there a specific name for this strategy? Are the expiration dates on the contracts the same? If not, what's a good rule of thumb for distance between expirations? How far out do you look for these types of trades? I see 2024 mentioned. 1-2 years? Thanks. Typically called a "synthetic long". Synthetic indicating that derivatives are used instead of the actual underlying asset, long indicating that it replicates being long the underlying asset (if price goes up, I profit, if it goes down I lose). For the timing, it's really up to you. A true, vanilla synthetic has the same expiration date of both the short and the long legs, but you can do calendar or ratio offsets if you want (for example, long expiration on the short put, but buy multiple calls for shorter expirations using the premium from the put). The time value in the premium (assuming same expiration) between the two contracts should be relatively the same, so it's the current intrinsic value of the put plus some volatility premium that's being paid to me in cash and reducing my max loss. Since I'm replicating a long position my big opportunity is when the price of the underlying asset appreciates, so the more time I have to "win" is usually in my favor, especially since I'm fighting against the time decay of my call. Definitely looking forward to trying this. Was looking up some contract prices on far out put/call contracts and liked what I saw. Appreciate the explanation! |
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R.I.P. Jeff Hanneman (1964-2013)
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Originally Posted By Total53: My feeble attempt to outline cmsnare's synthetic long, although my example maybe won't be so long. Sell an MVIS $3 put, 20 May for $40. Buy an MVIS $4 call, 20 May for $16. ( in this example you could even get 2 calls ) Pocket $24 and wait. ( $8 if you buy 2 calls ) Fees for me would be $2 ( or $3 ). Must have $300 buying power (margin or cash) to cover the put if MVIS drops. If MVIS moves to $4 or greater by 20 May or really anytime up to that date you can buy back the put and sell the call(s). View Quote Yep, that's the idea. Since you mentioned MVIS, a true synthetic would indicate selling a $4 put and buying the $4 call. With the put ITM, that'd be an additional $100 cash credit to you, which is the intrinsic value (the amt the option in currently ITM) within the premium. You'd still need $300 to secure the $4 put ($300 from your acct/margin and $100 premium credit from the put sale), but if you're anticipating the stock appreciating above $4, that $100 intrinsic value would go away from the put's premium, since the put would now be out of the money and only time value is remaining. In other words, additional profit to you if stock appreciates and you buy back put when its OTM. You can certainly do different strike prices and expiration dates between the legs; the overall idea is how can I sell something which profits if I'm right on direction (in this case, stock goes up), which then buys me something that also pays off if I'm right on direction, while not exposing me to outsized risk. The net risk with the MVIS example you outlined is that you may have to buy the stock at $4/share when it's trading for less - but that would be the same outcome as if you bought it today at $3 share and never sold (since the $1/share premium you collected reduces your max loss on the put). At the end of the day, you still own MVIS shares (assuming you get assigned 'cause the price went down), just got there a different way than buying them outright. Now - say the share price appreciates significantly during the term of your option. Your net profit with calls vs shares, all things equal (assuming some time value left in the option) would be greater with the calls. Also to mention, this also works with synthetic shorts (sell call/buy put), but if the call isn't a covered call, you're taking on a lot more risk with the naked option since you're theoretical loss is unlimited....but same with shorting a stock, which is what the synthetic is looking to mirror. As always, just a description of a possible strategy, do your own research and never trade instruments that you don't understand the risk of. |
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This MVIS employee incentive plan has me in a tizzy. I haven't voted yet. There are dozens of posts on the sub that make an argument for both a yay or nay vote. I do think a lot of the members there (not the longs) look through rose colored glasses thinking there's no possible way MVIS goes tits up.
Has everyone voted, yet? |
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Originally Posted By Vengeance6661: This MVIS employee incentive plan has me in a tizzy. I haven't voted yet. There are dozens of posts on the sub that make an argument for both a yay or nay vote. I do think a lot of the members there (not the longs) look through rose colored glasses thinking there's no possible way MVIS goes tits up. Has everyone voted, yet? View Quote I voted no. They should have enough incentive to produce without us buying them millions of free shares. If they really think we're going to $36+, they should buy in like we all have. |
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Originally Posted By amanbearpig: I voted no. They should have enough incentive to produce without us buying them millions of free shares. If they really think we're going to $36+, they should buy in like we all have. View Quote Thats kind of where I am at, at the moment as well. I've only been here for two years, I know next to nothing about any of the board except for Sumit. I have never seen any of the board members try and be a cheerleader for the stock. All I have seen is Sumit running around like a madman trying to get MVIS to the top. I don't mind voting yes for him. The rest of them though, unless I'm missing something, I've never seen them mention MVIS once, in an interview, article, post, or anything. Unless I'm just missing it. For that fact, it's hard to vote yes. Maybe they are doing big things behind the scenes? |
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I wouldn't stand in front of a piss-filled supersoaker. Does that make it a good pistol? - Caboose314
I thought I was covered for 22 cans, but the NFAids is a bitch when it mutates - themagikbullet |
Originally Posted By Total53: My feeble attempt to outline cmsnare's synthetic long, although my example maybe won't be so long. Sell an MVIS $3 put, 20 May for $40. Buy an MVIS $4 call, 20 May for $16. ( in this example you could even get 2 calls ) Pocket $24 and wait. ( $8 if you buy 2 calls ) Fees for me would be $2 ( or $3 ). Must have $300 buying power (margin or cash) to cover the put if MVIS drops. If MVIS moves to $4 or greater by 20 May or really anytime up to that date you can buy back the put and sell the call(s). View Quote "power etrade's" StrategySeek (or tradelab) tool helps set these up, and shows risk/reward pretty clearly. |
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Originally Posted By cmsnare: Yep, that's the idea. Since you mentioned MVIS, a true synthetic would indicate selling a $4 put and buying the $4 call. With the put ITM, that'd be an additional $100 cash credit to you, which is the intrinsic value (the amt the option in currently ITM) within the premium. You'd still need $300 to secure the $4 put ($300 from your acct/margin and $100 premium credit from the put sale), but if you're anticipating the stock appreciating above $4, that $100 intrinsic value would go away from the put's premium, since the put would now be out of the money and only time value is remaining. In other words, additional profit to you if stock appreciates and you buy back put when its OTM. You can certainly do different strike prices and expiration dates between the legs; the overall idea is how can I sell something which profits if I'm right on direction (in this case, stock goes up), which then buys me something that also pays off if I'm right on direction, while not exposing me to outsized risk. The net risk with the MVIS example you outlined is that you may have to buy the stock at $4/share when it's trading for less - but that would be the same outcome as if you bought it today at $3 share and never sold (since the $1/share premium you collected reduces your max loss on the put). At the end of the day, you still own MVIS shares (assuming you get assigned 'cause the price went down), just got there a different way than buying them outright. Now - say the share price appreciates significantly during the term of your option. Your net profit with calls vs shares, all things equal (assuming some time value left in the option) would be greater with the calls. Also to mention, this also works with synthetic shorts (sell call/buy put), but if the call isn't a covered call, you're taking on a lot more risk with the naked option since you're theoretical loss is unlimited....but same with shorting a stock, which is what the synthetic is looking to mirror. As always, just a description of a possible strategy, do your own research and never trade instruments that you don't understand the risk of. View Quote So for my simple mind.... Sell bbig $2.50 put for $27 a contract ITM Hold $250 to cover in case it drops. Buy bbig $2.50 calls at $7 a contract OTM If bbig goes above $2.50, buy back put. Sell calls. If bbig goes below $2.50 I keep put premium but buy stock at $2.50 / share when it is lower. Calls are worthless. Am I tracking? I'm still learning so be gentle. |
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The Frog is Pepe. Someone shouts Hey Pepe @ Hillary rally, then Roger Stone Jedi Mindfucked someone in the Hillary campaign by putting Pepe in the Deplorables meme and now the shit is getting real.
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Where's the Kaboom?! There's supposed to be an Earth-shattering Kaboom!
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Originally Posted By Vengeance6661: This MVIS employee incentive plan has me in a tizzy. I haven't voted yet. There are dozens of posts on the sub that make an argument for both a yay or nay vote. I do think a lot of the members there (not the longs) look through rose colored glasses thinking there's no possible way MVIS goes tits up. Has everyone voted, yet? View Quote If the benchmarks are not met, it doesn't cost the investors anything additionally. The price at closing on Friday was $2.98. At the full incentive price of $36 pps, a 1200% increase. I like motivated employees. |
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Alright fellas it's been a while since I bought lottery tickets. There are worse ways to burn $10. So I have my QP for the 400 million jackpot tonight.
Taking the lump sum puts it at $244 million. Pay the feds 58.5 million, pay the state 12.2 million for a grand total take home of 173 million. Figure I'll use a million or so to buy some MVIS shares after I win |
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Originally Posted By 4Teen_R: If the benchmarks are not met, it doesn't cost the investors anything additionally. The price at closing on Friday was $2.98. At the full incentive price of $36 pps, a 1200% increase. I like motivated employees. View Quote Not quite accurate that it doesn't cost investors anything. If the recipients remain employed but miss performance thresholds, company still has to take expense for the awards against its earnings, even if no shares are paid out. Depending on the fair value assigned to each tranche of shares, the expense charge could be material given the company's earnings. |
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Originally Posted By 1969GTX: So for my simple mind.... Sell bbig $2.50 put for $27 a contract ITM Hold $250 to cover in case it drops. Buy bbig $2.50 calls at $7 a contract OTM If bbig goes above $2.50, buy back put. Sell calls. If bbig goes below $2.50 I keep put premium but buy stock at $2.50 / share when it is lower. Calls are worthless. Am I tracking? I'm still learning so be gentle. View Quote Didn't check the premium values, but yes that is the structure. |
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The wife and I just found out we are having twins…if Mavis could go ahead and moon any day now that would be great. Would make the necessary large SUV purchase a bit more palatable anyway
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Originally Posted By bc42: The wife and I just found out we are having twins…if Mavis could go ahead and moon any day now that would be great. Would make the necessary large SUV purchase a bit more palatable anyway View Quote Congrats my dude. Four month old and a two and a half year old here. Twins you say? You could make a deal and name them Sumit and Anubhav. Or Sumit and Sevil. In return for them releasing some info |
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Where's the Kaboom?! There's supposed to be an Earth-shattering Kaboom!
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Originally Posted By JoseCuervo: You should go to bed. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By JoseCuervo: Originally Posted By bc42: The wife and I just found out we are having twins…if Mavis could go ahead and moon any day now that would be great. Would make the necessary large SUV purchase a bit more palatable anyway You should go to bed. Pretty sure a bed is how he got in this situation in the first place |
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Originally Posted By NIevo: Pretty sure a bed is how he got in this situation in the first place View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By NIevo: Originally Posted By JoseCuervo: Originally Posted By bc42: The wife and I just found out we are having twins…if Mavis could go ahead and moon any day now that would be great. Would make the necessary large SUV purchase a bit more palatable anyway You should go to bed. Pretty sure a bed is how he got in this situation in the first place Oh, Snap! I meant, go to sleep while he can, but you knew that. |
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Originally Posted By Total53: So either way the cost of the shares go on the books, which brings up another point. MicroVision for all it's IP and deep patent library has never made a profit. So being (originally) from Missouri, I want Sumit to show me they can be a real https://media.giphy.com/media/iIA5YSYuYKdgoedkxU/giphy.gif View Quote If he could he |
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Thanks ya’ll. This set will be our second and third. My wife tricked me with her wiley ways, and I’ll stand by that.
I guess Sevil could be a good girl’s name? If it could be used as collateral to start an aggressive marketing campaign…well… |
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