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Quoted: Hmm - it's a revolver so it will definitely load and eject. Most likely no problem igniting the rounds either. Fast Defensive reloading a 22LR though is something I would like to see Maybe a good Miculek challenge! Do they make speed clips for 22LR Airweight? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: CCI Stinger or any of the other hyper-velocity offerings. MAKE CERTAIN whatever she chooses will load, shoot and eject from her gun. Try to get her to run at least a hundred (preferably two hundred) rounds through it to vet the ammo/gun combination, learn to confidently hit a bad-guy size target at practical distances and learn to load and empty her gun efficiently. Please start with the FOUR ABSOLUTES of safe gun handling. Hmm - it's a revolver so it will definitely load and eject. Most likely no problem igniting the rounds either. Fast Defensive reloading a 22LR though is something I would like to see Maybe a good Miculek challenge! Do they make speed clips for 22LR Airweight? Like all gun/ammo combinations (but .22 rimfire cartridges in particular) it is highly recommended that you vet that combination. I have a Ruger Single-Six that will not properly chamber Aguila .22 Calibre (due to rim thickness I believe, often causing the cylinder to drag against the breech face). I have a S&W model 34 that Winchester cases often stick while trying to extract (I have to use far more force on the Ejector Rod than I would prefer). “Most likely” there won’t be any problem igniting the rounds. However, I would never assume any gun and ammo combination will play nice together without shooting at least a hundred rounds. A few hundred rounds if I intend to carry it or make it a go to gun for home defense. Nowhere did I make comment regarding “Fast Defensive reloading”. What I suggested is that she take the time and practice to learn to load and empty her gun EFFICIENTLY. There is a BIG difference between speed and efficiency, much of the latter contributing to proper muzzle orientation and trigger discipline while handling the gun during loading and unloading. |
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Quoted: Lol insraelis did some work with .22’s. Also that gangbanger killed that cop with a glock in .22. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: 9mm Lol insraelis did some work with .22’s. Also that gangbanger killed that cop with a glock in .22. MOSSAD did it with .22 shorts at that if the book I vaguely remember reading many years ago about the retributive assassinations of terrorists involved in Munich is to be believed. |
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Quoted: These two should be near the top: Aguila Interceptor 40gr @1470 fps and 195ft/lb Aguila Supermaximum 30gr @1700fps and 193ft/lb Both have slightly more energy than Stingers (4ft/lb and 2ft/lb respectively). Good luck finding either because I haven't been able to find them for 5+ years. View Quote Found some supermaximum a couple months ago at a local haunt. Bought some. Good ammo. Smells funny. |
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If you don't already own the revolver, a Ruger in 327 magnum can shoot as soft about as a 22 with a lighter better trigger than any rimfire gun. Even if the slow light 32 round won't expand, it is pretty much already bigger than an expanded 22
Then you can work your way up to heavier and better loads. |
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I’d use Stingers in my 10/22, but not a pistol. I want 40-45 grain rounds in my 22/45 since the velocity won’t be there.
Lucky gunner has a .22 gel test comparison you could look at: https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/the-best-22lr-and-22-magnum-ammo-for-concealed-carry/amp/ |
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View Quote Won’t stabilize in shorter barrels .22LR Three-Barrel Mega-Test #1: Velocitors, SSS, Power Point and Supermaximum |
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Quoted: You wouldn't LOL if someone shot you with a .22 would you? View Quote I wouldn't LOL if someone spit on me either. Little to no reason why a person couldn't handle a 38 Special revolver. I'd rather go 148 gr WC over any 22 LR load. If you insist on 22 LR, I doubt you'll find that ANY of it is much better than any other. Pick any of the loads here that achieved at least 12" of penetration. None of it expanded much and gave sufficient penetration so you're overthinking it at this point. https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/pocket-pistol-caliber-gel-test-results/#22LR |
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Stingers give best gel results, but not sure w/ 3”
Velocitor are also good. I have used SSS 60gr in my Walther PP. they do keyhole by 20 yards, but the extra 20 gr made the wooden target bounce way more than the 32gr Stinger. Having operated on scores of people who have been shot—not a single one ever complained about caliber—only that they were shot. Definitely stick with a high-end CCI or comparable non-cheapo ammo for ignition reasons. Consider a light and laser—people who shoot infrequently benefit from any cheats to stack the deck in their favor. I use LaserMax & Crimson trace lasers. |
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Federal Punch
Maximum velocity for energy and penetration; 1,070 fps through 2-inch barrel handguns, 1,650 fps out of 24-inch rifle barrels |
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Quoted: I have a bunch of it. All Aguila rimfire smells like cat piss View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Found some supermaximum a couple months ago at a local haunt. Bought some. Good ammo. Smells funny. I have a bunch of it. All Aguila rimfire smells like cat piss Specifically, diabetic cat piss. |
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Quoted: Federal just came out with a new .22lr cartridge designed for self defense. I think it's called Punch but not sure. I haven't tried it yet but on my next long break from work I'm going to see how it does in my M and P .22 pistol. Might be worth a look, OP ETA link https://www.federalpremium.com/rimfire/personal-defense-punch-rimfire/11-PD22L1.html View Quote I couldn’t remember what it was called, but I’d try this. Or stingers. |
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There was another thread on this recently, but it may be worst consider an LCR in .327 Mag loaded with Buffalo Bore .32 Long hard cast. The standard pressure loading was very mild recoil with great penetration.
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During the Second World War, the War Department drew up specs for a .22 LR full metal jacket round, in order to be in compliance with the laws of war. They called it M24 Ball, and it was a 40.5 grain FMJ roundnose bullet loaded to high-velocity pressures, mostly manufactured by the old Union Metallic Cartridge Company. OSS Jedburgh teams in occupied Europe made heavy use of it from suppressed firearms for assassinations in occupied Europe. It is only anecdotal, but I have read claims that the jacket seemed to give the little bullet a better chance to break bone and greater lethality overall. The bullet had little in the way of velocity or energy, and the jacket made it rigid enough and strong enough that it usually did not waste any of its limited energy deforming.
That's where I'd start, if I were designing something to be used for self-defense. A harder, tougher projectile, because with such low velocity and energy, especially from a handgun, if it expands it's unlikely to make it to the 12" minimum in calibrated ballistic gelatin that everyone seems to agree is a requirement for self-defense. Maybe even a copper washed steel jacket instead of the gilding metal of the original M24, so long as the jacket isn't so heavy as to go over the limit of 25% of total projectile mass, because of the 1980s "cop killer bullet" amendments to GCA 68. Maybe experiment to see if any particular nose shape helps feed reliability. Load it to a pressure and velocity optimum for cycling semiauto firearms. Use reliable priming and clean burning propellants to give the maximum reliability. But since that doesn't exist and I haven't heard of anyone tooling up to make new production M24 Ball, I'm going to recommend trying a few types of high velocity solids to see which is most reliable in that individual gun. I predict they will probably be CCI Mini-Mag solids. No expansion and 12" penetration or a bit more in calibrated 10% ballistic gelatin is about as good as you can realistically hope for in .22 LR from a handgun, and it isn't very much better from a rifle. Is she going to be carrying this? If it's for home defense, maybe something like a 10/22 with fiberoptic sights and a weapon light, and a few BX-25 mags, though my experience with BX-25s is not uniformly positive and you'd need to test them to make sure the mags were reliable with the ammunition. BX-25s can be finicky, and there are lots of threads in various rimfire-related forums about the followers tipping and binding and the fixes people try to address that. A 10/22 wouldn't be my first choice, but seven or eight .22s to the face just might ruin a bad guy's whole day. It's better than relying on harsh language. |
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Quoted: During the Second World War, the War Department drew up specs for a .22 LR full metal jacket round, in order to be in compliance with the laws of war. They called it M24 Ball, and it was a 40.5 grain FMJ roundnose bullet loaded to high-velocity pressures, mostly manufactured by the old Union Metallic Cartridge Company. OSS Jedburgh teams in occupied Europe made heavy use of it from suppressed firearms for assassinations in occupied Europe. It is only anecdotal, but I have read claims that the jacket seemed to give the little bullet a better chance to break bone and greater lethality overall. The bullet had little in the way of velocity or energy, and the jacket made it rigid enough and strong enough that it usually did not waste any of its limited energy deforming. That's where I'd start, if I were designing something to be used for self-defense. A harder, tougher projectile, because with such low velocity and energy, especially from a handgun, if it expands it's unlikely to make it to the 12" minimum in calibrated ballistic gelatin that everyone seems to agree is a requirement for self-defense. Maybe even a copper washed steel jacket instead of the gilding metal of the original M24, so long as the jacket isn't so heavy as to go over the limit of 25% of total projectile mass, because of the 1980s "cop killer bullet" amendments to GCA 68. Maybe experiment to see if any particular nose shape helps feed reliability. Load it to a pressure and velocity optimum for cycling semiauto firearms. Use reliable priming and clean burning propellants to give the maximum reliability. But since that doesn't exist and I haven't heard of anyone tooling up to make new production M24 Ball, I'm going to recommend trying a few types of high velocity solids to see which is most reliable in that individual gun. I predict they will probably be CCI Mini-Mag solids. No expansion and 12" penetration or a bit more in calibrated 10% ballistic gelatin is about as good as you can realistically hope for in .22 LR from a handgun, and it isn't very much better from a rifle. Is she going to be carrying this? If it's for home defense, maybe something like a 10/22 with fiberoptic sights and a weapon light, and a few BX-25 mags, though my experience with BX-25s is not uniformly positive and you'd need to test them to make sure the mags were reliable with the ammunition. BX-25s can be finicky, and there are lots of threads in various rimfire-related forums about the followers tipping and binding and the fixes people try to address that. A 10/22 wouldn't be my first choice, but seven or eight .22s to the face just might ruin a bad guy's whole day. It's better than relying on harsh language. View Quote Lehigh Defense was working on a solid copper rimfire round a few years ago. Not sure if that’s still in development, but I’d be really interested to see how it performs. |
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Quoted: I have a bunch of it. All Aguila rimfire smells like cat piss View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Found some supermaximum a couple months ago at a local haunt. Bought some. Good ammo. Smells funny. I have a bunch of it. All Aguila rimfire smells like cat piss The older Eley primed Aguila rimfire does smell like cat piss. The newer Aguila primed rimfire that I've shot smells normal. |
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A little over 29 years ago , my first shooting call my first night was a guy who was drinking with his friends. They had a Davis derringer in .22LR. They were playing Russian Roulette with it. Taking the round out and moving it back and forth and so on. Of course alcohol was involved. Guy put a Winchester wildcat into the side of his skull right in front of his ear. He did not die until the next day. I saw the X-Ray. Looked like the bullet zig zagged around inside the skull. The bullet never exited and was resting in the nasal cavity. It ricocheted inside as we could see the lines in the brain of the bullets path. Not a nice way to cash out.
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Quoted: So, she shouldn’t learn how to empty and reload her revolver? http://clipart-library.com/images/8izrzGjrT.gif View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: CCI Stinger or any of the other hyper-velocity offerings. MAKE CERTAIN whatever she chooses will load, shoot and eject from her gun. Try to get her to run at least a hundred (preferably two hundred) rounds through it to vet the ammo/gun combination, learn to confidently hit a bad-guy size target at practical distances and learn to load and empty her gun efficiently. Please start with the FOUR ABSOLUTES of safe gun handling. Can’t run a slide or semi and we’re worried about reloading a wheel gun? Doesn’t seem practical to me So, she shouldn’t learn how to empty and reload her revolver? http://clipart-library.com/images/8izrzGjrT.gif OP states 8 round revolver Knowing how to reload vs a hot load that makes cases stick and even harder to reload in a gunfight aren’t the same thing. |
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View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Serious question: Do we care at living room distances? |
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Quoted: The older Eley primed Aguila rimfire does smell like cat piss. The newer Aguila primed rimfire that I've shot smells normal. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Found some supermaximum a couple months ago at a local haunt. Bought some. Good ammo. Smells funny. I have a bunch of it. All Aguila rimfire smells like cat piss The older Eley primed Aguila rimfire does smell like cat piss. The newer Aguila primed rimfire that I've shot smells normal. Whether it’s valid or not, the fact that the older ones were Eley primed gave me a little more confidence in regards to ignition. |
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Quoted: Something made by CCI, which IME is the most likely to go bang when the hammer drops. This is the reason that I think WMR should be the only .22 rimfire to consider for defense. In general, it seems to be made with much more care and is more likely to have priming compound around the entire rim. The enhances terminal ballistics while still having minimal recoil also doesn't hurt. View Quote yup. Most women can get used to 22 wmr and it's a lot better. But LR those yellow jackets no one is going to ignore |
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My dad had a evidence bottle of a case he worked where a woman emptied a nine shot High-Standard revolver into a home intruder that broke through her locked bedroom door. She put all the rounds around/through the perp's heart. He died at the foot of her bed. They were 40 gr Winchester Super-X solids. Some were deformed a bit (nose) but most were fine.
Dad always figured she polished him off with a few rounds after he collapsed but such trifles were not worried about much back then.....Problem solved, problem staying solved. |
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Quoted: Serious question: Do we care at living room distances? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Serious question: Do we care at living room distances? Fair point. Honestly it might factor in depending on where you live. For me here in Florida, maybe not. For you out in Colorado where heavier clothing is more likely during part of the year, maybe. |
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View Quote Nice. |
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View Quote Well shit. |
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Quoted: Hmm - it's a revolver so it will definitely load and eject. Most likely no problem igniting the rounds either. Fast Defensive reloading a 22LR though is something I would like to see Maybe a good Miculek challenge! Do they make speed clips for 22LR Airweight? View Quote There is a company that makes nice speed loaders. I think they are in Texas, 5 Star. I have four of them and they are very well made. I have the 8 round speed loaders for a snubby Taurus revolver but I believe they make 10 rounders too. No bigger than a key fob and they fit nicely in a front pocket. Mine are marked J2-22 LR and have a 5 point star with a 5 in the middle, this should also work with an 8 shot Smith & Wesson. I want to add that people laugh at .22's but they are no joke. I have personally seen quite a few dead gang bangers or shall we say healthy young men shot real dead from .22 caliber hand guns. |
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Quoted: Bought some Punch from SG to add to my stash. Have a Ruger at my SOT I need to figure out some ammo for next. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/14209/tbassh-2023935.jpg View Quote That looks like a lot of fun |
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When i was a teen, a large crow screwed the pooch and lit in the top of one of our trees. Baby brother and i had just stepped out to shoot the Stingers I'd just bought. Brother spied the crow, took aim with the Model 60 and shot that big crow, center mass. A pinkish mist blew into the airspace above him. He folded. I expected a fall and light thump like a shot squirrel. The crow just sort of wafted down, spinning like a maple seed.
That one Stinger had basically emptied its chest cavity. Imagine taking ten of those to the chest. Those are some bad little mammajammas. |
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Quoted: Whether it’s valid or not, the fact that the older ones were Eley primed gave me a little more confidence in regards to ignition. View Quote I've not had any problems with either but Eley is known for their quality standards. The only issue I've had with any Aguila ammo is that my NAA mini-mag's cylinder jams after the third shot of Aguila .22 WMR. Happens every time. In 27+ years of owning the NAA, that is the only ammo that has had an issue in it. |
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Quoted: 3" 8 shot airweight for a women. No pics. View Quote Probably Stingers or Velocitors. |
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Quoted: I've not had any problems with either but Eley is known for their quality standards. The only issue I've had with any Aguila ammo is that my NAA mini-mag's cylinder jams after the third shot of Aguila .22 WMR. Happens every time. In 27+ years of owning the NAA, that is the only ammo that has had an issue in it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Whether it’s valid or not, the fact that the older ones were Eley primed gave me a little more confidence in regards to ignition. I've not had any problems with either but Eley is known for their quality standards. The only issue I've had with any Aguila ammo is that my NAA mini-mag's cylinder jams after the third shot of Aguila .22 WMR. Happens every time. In 27+ years of owning the NAA, that is the only ammo that has had an issue in it. |
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