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Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:19:44 PM EDT
[#1]
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Quoted:
[/b]

Where do you think most fights end up?
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That’s where they end up not where they start. I’m not saying bjj isn’t a great sport, I love it, trained in it for about 5 years till I started having kids and couldn’t spend 3-4 nights a week at the gym. But if only pickinging 1 sport I’d start with something that has fighting in a standing position more than just takedowns.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:20:47 PM EDT
[#2]
Don’t overlook boxing as a tool in the set.
The cardio is eye opening. A few minutes throwing combinations on a heavy bag will have you feeling like you lost a fight.

I’d likely take a gentleman’s approach, and start off with boxing, hoping for that clean and distinguished KO, but the first whiff of things not being ?? under control, it’s headed to the ground game.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:22:33 PM EDT
[#3]
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Muay Thai.

People don’t fight fair in the streets. Take someone down to the ground and their friend you did or didn’t see is going to use your head as a soccer ball.

If you knew you’d always be in a one on one fight, coin toss between MT and BJJ.
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MT does sweeps and take downs, a real advantage over other striking arts, but realistically you need more grappling to be able to fight, and basic ground fighting skills. If you are only studying ONE MA then BJJ is probably the best bet. No matter how you look at it multiple opponents is a difficult problem, usually not solvable. Focus on the basic fight skills first.

That said, not all BJJ instructors teach a solid standup game. So if you are not going to include wrestling or Judo, find a BJJ gym that does a lot of standup.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:23:55 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:


I am assuming he is still in school.

I have some background with wrestling, boxing and a sprinkling of TKD.

Wrestling is hard as hell, he needs to be super motivated to do it, in my experience, wrestlers are tough as hell and not to be messed with. It certainly isn’t for everyone but if he enjoys it, it could be a great thing for him.

I did some boxing as a teen and a little sparring but as soon as I wanted to compete my parents put an end to it and looking back I don’t blame them. Getting punched in the head really isn’t a great idea.

I did a little TKD, it was fun but there are better arts for self defense.

BJJ seems like a great option. He can work as hard as he wants, without having someone run his dick in the dirt and starve himself to make weight. He can compete if he wants but he doesn’t have to and he will still get benefits. There seem to be a lot of schools and classes available compared to the other arts.
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Quoted:
BJJ is the hotness right now and might be the best all around for learning.

Is he just looking to be able to defend himself or get fit, have fun, compete, etc?


I think he's interested in self-defense since he's on the smaller side. But he's growing so who knows where he will wind up.


I am assuming he is still in school.

I have some background with wrestling, boxing and a sprinkling of TKD.

Wrestling is hard as hell, he needs to be super motivated to do it, in my experience, wrestlers are tough as hell and not to be messed with. It certainly isn’t for everyone but if he enjoys it, it could be a great thing for him.

I did some boxing as a teen and a little sparring but as soon as I wanted to compete my parents put an end to it and looking back I don’t blame them. Getting punched in the head really isn’t a great idea.

I did a little TKD, it was fun but there are better arts for self defense.

BJJ seems like a great option. He can work as hard as he wants, without having someone run his dick in the dirt and starve himself to make weight. He can compete if he wants but he doesn’t have to and he will still get benefits. There seem to be a lot of schools and classes available compared to the other arts.


He's still in school and kind of a skinny kid. His upper body seems to be better developed than his lower. He might be more suiting for boxing type disciplines where he can punch and strike. But I'm just guessing.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:26:31 PM EDT
[#5]
Krav, with supplementation of BJJ and Muay Thai. Boxing doesn't hurt, either. Sambo if yer a fucking psycho, and I mean that in the best possible way.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:27:20 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:


I was going to add MMA in, but wasn't sure if that's for beginners. I'm guessing you need to be proficient in one before you can master many. I may be wrong.
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Quoted:
BJJ, Wrestling, Muay Thai, Boxing

The UFC has shown that the efficacy of Mixed Martial Arts is greater than individual, incomplete systems.

None of this is a replacement for tactics...and fire superiority.


I was going to add MMA in, but wasn't sure if that's for beginners. I'm guessing you need to be proficient in one before you can master many. I may be wrong.

Nope.

I've trained in numerous martial arts, schools and gyms over the decades;

If you want a one stop shop for practical self defense, a good MMA gym is it. Preferably one that has members who regularly compete (if they win, it's a good indicator the gym's standards/levels are high).

Don't need any prior experience or proficiency in ANY type of martial art. A good MMA gym can take a person from fresh newb to competition ready.

That said, a little more detail on my personal take on unarmed self defense:

These days, don't expect a fair fight, especially one on one, which is why while I'm an advocate for BJJ, I don't advocate ONLY BJJ. As has been already mentioned, taking an opponent to the ground, or allowing yourself to be taken to the ground, is just asking for a boot/bottle/chair/knife to the back/head if someone else jumps in.

I like BJJ for learning to defend against grapplers (and for the advantage if you DO get taken down,  and BJJ is an especially good art for girls/women, as it literally focuses on how THEY'RE most lijely to be attacked), but I prefer striking, ESPECIALLY if there are potentially multiple assailants.

The thing is, that many/most striking styles (boxing, Muay Thai etc.) don't train takedown defense much, if at all. THAT'S the biggest benefit of starting at an MMA gym; you get all of it (striking, grappling AND takedown defense).

As someone else mentioned, getting into wrestling in HS is an excellent background, because wrestling is literally about learning the balance and body positioning for instinctive takedown defense or rolling someone who does take you down. Couple that with a good striking art like Muay Thai, and just that combo alone is very effective, much less adding grappling/groundfighting to the mix.

One thing holds true with any of them though; to be able to fight, you need to fight.

It's one of the biggest reasons people criticize styles like Aikido, Krav Maga etc.

To be able to fight requires fighting noncompliant opponents. It requires facing people who are actively trying to punch you in the face and take you down, while you're trying to do the same. You can practice all the canned combos you want, it still isn't the same as fighting noncompliant opponents. Timing, distance, reach, balance, movement. You fine tune all these only from fighting/sparring.

In the decades of studying and checking out various martial arts, I came across a LOT of assumptions (judoka assuming they could take on trained strikers, because all they had to do was be able to grab them. Same thing with the 6th Dan Aikidoka I  sparred with. They don't actively train against people genuinely trying to punch them in the face, knee them in the liver, kick them through a wall, or all of the above in rapid succession).
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:27:47 PM EDT
[#7]
.44 Magnum
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:27:58 PM EDT
[#8]
Sword and shield in armor
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:29:05 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
Sword and shield in armor
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pussy!

Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:29:56 PM EDT
[#10]
Omg. Miago do come on man
Did you not see all the documentaries
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:30:21 PM EDT
[#11]
John Wick GunFu?
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:31:40 PM EDT
[#12]
Muay Thai/ BJJ.  Add boxing to the list.

Sparring is important. Just keeping a level head and fighting smart goes a long ways.

Also a lot easier to find a good BJJ, Muay Thai, or boxing gym.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:33:17 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
Couple thoughts, Bruce Lee was a master at Kung Fu. I’m sure that guy was able to kick many ass’s from other disciplines.
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Couple thoughts, Bruce Lee was a master at Kung Fu. I’m sure that guy was able to kick many ass’s from other disciplines.


He had no real fight record.

Quoted:
MMA fighters that use good wrestling techniques as a primary way to fight almost usually win.


There are two main reasons for that:

1) Wrestling is a high school and college sport, so it benefits from a large number of young athletes who are trained very hard then sorted out via competition.

2) Wrestling is one of the more limited arts that work very well in MMA, but it focuses on the takedown/takedown defense part of the fight; having the skillset to determine if the fight takes place standing or on the ground is a HUGE advantage.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:33:31 PM EDT
[#14]
Art of the Gun
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:35:45 PM EDT
[#15]
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:35:58 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
Muay Thai/ BJJ.  Add boxing to the list.

Sparring is important. Just keeping a level head and fighting smart goes a long ways.

Also a lot easier to find a good BJJ, Muay Thai, or boxing gym.
View Quote


I'm old and only do BJJ, but the gym I go to is an MMA gym and offers boxing, MT and has had wrestling and judo classes (not sure if it does currently).

Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:36:20 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:
Gun-fu.

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Ka-Chung.  12ga version.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:38:48 PM EDT
[#18]
What about Bartitsu?
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:39:43 PM EDT
[#19]
Where is the “Pie” option?
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:41:23 PM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:


I was going to add MMA in, but wasn't sure if that's for beginners. I'm guessing you need to be proficient in one before you can master many. I may be wrong.
View Quote



Someone else answered this, but a good MMA gym that offers BJJ/wrestling/boxing/MT is the best bet. You don't have to learn one before the other. Only thing is is not overworking yourself or over training I suppose.

I suggest BJJ first since grappling is necessary. Also, it takes a long time because of the many possible moves. That said, it is best to get started soonest, and if he wants boxing or MT first that's fine.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:42:17 PM EDT
[#21]
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:42:17 PM EDT
[#22]
My mother signed my brothers and I up for TaeKwonDo when we were kids. The only Martial Arts places around was a TKD studio and then two Karate places. Since I was the oldest of the brothers I got to choose what we did.

I chose TKD because of two reasons. The sparring part of the art was much more fun then that of Karate. And  secondly I clicked well with the badass Korean instructor. The two Karate Sensei’s  were white American guys with obvious fake Japanese accents and they weirded me out.

TKD helped me defend myself in a school fight on more then one occasion. But keep in mind TaeKwonDo is 85% kicking and geared towards competing in an Olympic sport and not a street fight or self defense……




Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:42:45 PM EDT
[#23]
Any art that involves grappling.  Jiu Jitsu, Judo, Sambo, or general MMA.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:46:31 PM EDT
[#24]
What I like about Judo is.

Pros.
You learn to fall, that can come in handy in a lot of other times in life.
GREAT workout and physically demanding, it gets/keeps you in shape.
Teaches a ton of balance and body mechanics and body leverage.
Core is a smaller person can use a larger persons weight and strength against them.
You are standing and not going to the ground, you are normally sending the other guy TO the ground at a good rate of speed.

I mean tossing a guy into a wall, or onto the pavement or across a park bench or fire hydrant (that will take the starch out of someone). Tossing the guy and then just running off, makes it sorta useful for self defense.  

Cons.
Training was intense.
Broken bones, seemed to be a common problem. Last time I used a move, was in a weapon retention class. I did a retention drill I knew from years before, really slow and easy against the instructor. Instructor was that doesn't work. I was any faster or harder and you WILL have broken fingers. We did it again, real slow and easy. Instructor got mad and sorta started ranking on me to do it faster/harder. Again warning. I warned 3 times, can't do this move full speed, someone will get hurt. It's a real finger breaker. Instructor convinced me, they know what they are doing, they've seen/done this before, it's what they do. It's fine to run it faster and they will counter it.

Yep 3 broken fingers... I still feel bad about that, I knew better. I shouldn't have let the self defense instructor talk me into it.

There's some nasty moves in Judo, and things can happen FAST. Most fights where over in 3 moves. But that can be true of any of them. This is arf after all so get both, one is none and all
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:47:23 PM EDT
[#25]
I am of the opinion that if one “art” had to be chosen as the best one with the highest probability of taking on any other style from across the globe and winning, it would be a Filipino variant.  Kali and Silat should be high on your list.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:48:15 PM EDT
[#26]
The art must prepare for multiple opponents. The grappling and rolling on the floor stuff doesn’t work.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:48:43 PM EDT
[#27]
As a kid my dad converted the garage to a dojo. He had a good friend that was an instructor. So I did about 4 years of Hapkido before graduating high school and going into the .mil. Was very fun when in basic we got to the hand to hand.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:54:04 PM EDT
[#28]
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Quoted:


That's a good point. Is traditional boxing a good option?
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Hell yes it is. A mixture of boxing and plain old American wrestling will cover 95% of anyone you will encounter.  The best part?  Wrestling is free at his school.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 7:59:54 PM EDT
[#29]
FPNI again.
Any of them can work if the instructor(s) are worth a shit.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 8:03:11 PM EDT
[#30]
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Quoted:
Any of them will be better than trying to rely on strength and a hot temper.
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Completely wrong.

Almost all martial arts instructors will tell their students to avoid any confrontations with weightlifters / body builders.
Fighting with a much stronger and faster opponent seldom works out well for the weaker opponent.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 8:03:11 PM EDT
[#31]
Boxing, aikido and bjj. Wrastlin in school if a kid wants to.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 8:04:54 PM EDT
[#32]
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Quoted:


Completely wrong.

Almost all martial arts instructors will tell their students to avoid any confrontations with weightlifters / body builders.
Fighting with a much stronger and faster opponent seldom works out well for the weaker opponent.
View Quote


You can out cardio the big guys usually, and they fall harder and aren't faster typically, just a lot stronger. Shorties can be tough (not a shortly myself but have reach and speed).
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 8:05:00 PM EDT
[#33]
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 8:15:10 PM EDT
[#34]
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Quoted:

Nope.

I've trained in numerous martial arts, schools and gyms over the decades;

If you want a one stop shop for practical self defense, a good MMA gym is it. Preferably one that has members who regularly compete (if they win, it's a good indicator the gym's standards/levels are high).

Don't need any prior experience or proficiency in ANY type of martial art. A good MMA gym can take a person from fresh newb to competition ready.

That said, a little more detail on my personal take on unarmed self defense:

These days, don't expect a fair fight, especially one on one, which is why while I'm an advocate for BJJ, I don't advocate ONLY BJJ. As has been already mentioned, taking an opponent to the ground, or allowing yourself to be taken to the ground, is just asking for a boot/bottle/chair/knife to the back/head if someone else jumps in.

I like BJJ for learning to defend against grapplers (and for the advantage if you DO get taken down,  and BJJ is an especially good art for girls/women, as it literally focuses on how THEY'RE most lijely to be attacked), but I prefer striking, ESPECIALLY if there are potentially multiple assailants.

The thing is, that many/most striking styles (boxing, Muay Thai etc.) don't train takedown defense much, if at all. THAT'S the biggest benefit of starting at an MMA gym; you get all of it (striking, grappling AND takedown defense).

As someone else mentioned, getting into wrestling in HS is an excellent background, because wrestling is literally about learning the balance and body positioning for instinctive takedown defense or rolling someone who does take you down. Couple that with a good striking art like Muay Thai, and just that combo alone is very effective, much less adding grappling/groundfighting to the mix.

One thing holds true with any of them though; to be able to fight, you need to fight.

It's one of the biggest reasons people criticize styles like Aikido, Krav Maga etc.

To be able to fight requires fighting noncompliant opponents. It requires facing people who are actively trying to punch you in the face and take you down, while you're trying to do the same. You can practice all the canned combos you want, it still isn't the same as fighting noncompliant opponents. Timing, distance, reach, balance, movement. You fine tune all these only from fighting/sparring.

In the decades of studying and checking out various martial arts, I came across a LOT of assumptions (judoka assuming they could take on trained strikers, because all they had to do was be able to grab them. Same thing with the 6th Dan Aikidoka I  sparred with. They don't actively train against people genuinely trying to punch them in the face, knee them in the liver, kick them through a wall, or all of the above in rapid succession).
View Quote

OP, if you're going to listen to one post in this thread, this should be it.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 8:15:25 PM EDT
[#35]
I would say no single one is the best.

If I had to pick for someone in high school, I would have them wrestle in high school sports (if possible) and take boxing as an outside sport.

Once through with high school, then I would have them do BJJ and Muay Thai.

Then one other thing which is probably going to be the hardest to find.

A non-tournament judo teacher that doesn't use Gi as an uniform (you want street clothes, so you don't develop bad habits with the Gi).  

Throws are extremely effective at ending a fight quickly.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 8:17:00 PM EDT
[#36]
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Quoted:


You can out cardio the big guys usually, and they fall harder and aren't faster typically, just a lot stronger. Shorties can be tough (not a shortly myself but have reach and speed).
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Quoted:


Completely wrong.

Almost all martial arts instructors will tell their students to avoid any confrontations with weightlifters / body builders.
Fighting with a much stronger and faster opponent seldom works out well for the weaker opponent.


You can out cardio the big guys usually, and they fall harder and aren't faster typically, just a lot stronger. Shorties can be tough (not a shortly myself but have reach and speed).


Cardio is seldom a factor in the street fight (in the ring it's major).
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 8:22:00 PM EDT
[#37]
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Quoted:
Rex kwan do
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What kind of pants does your nephew wear, OP? These things factor into my decision.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 8:30:03 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Don’t overlook boxing as a tool in the set.
The cardio is eye opening. A few minutes throwing combinations on a heavy bag will have you feeling like you lost a fight.

I’d likely take a gentleman’s approach, and start off with boxing, hoping for that clean and distinguished KO, but the first whiff of things not being ?? under control, it’s headed to the ground game.
View Quote


As a person who has lost a fight I can tell you it feels much worse than some fatigue after working the heavy bag...LOL.  In fact I've won fights and had injuries afterward that I didn't know I had during the fight.  

You have to spar if you want to be a striker.  We always sparred last at the end of the workout when we were fatigued.  

Coach and parent are critical in my opinion.  The better you get and older you get the more you understand how dangerous fighting is and how it should be avoided at all costs.  Dedicate yourself with good coaching and respect it.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 8:35:13 PM EDT
[#39]
Based on all the bar fights and others I've seen, its probably sumo fighting with all the pushing and slaps.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 8:42:51 PM EDT
[#40]
I don't think there is a discipline that has been proven to be better than all the others. Find a school that is close and not a McDojang.
Find a school that is something that he does agree with. He will have to like it to stay with it.  A bad instructor can ruin it for him.
Doing it for a long term is the best no matter the martial art chosen.  
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:04:03 PM EDT
[#41]
American martial arts.  Gunfighting.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 10:59:32 PM EDT
[#42]
Muay Thai or boxing for stand up fighting.

BJJ for ground game.

Muay Thai is almost made to go with BJJ because you’re already doing clinches while standing and BJJ is all takedowns and rolling.

If you were only going to train in one martial art, it should be boxing or muay thai.

In reality, any type of martial art where you’re doing actual sparring on a weekly basis is better than a superior martial art where the practitioner doesn’t get real hands on training.

I would look up classes around him and have him try them out.

If he’s in Glendale/northwest phx, have him check out https://ucelomartialartsphoenix.com/

There is also https://www.cyclone-muaythai.com/

Both of these places will have you training BJJ and karate/muay Thai 3-5 days a week. It’s really a lifestyle.

There is also https://mmalab.com/ Last I heard, this is owned by MMA fighter Benson Henderson.

The biggest thing you can do as an uncle is help with logistics (driving him to and from class) and paying for the classes. If you’re serious about him actually becoming a badass he will probably need your help.
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