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Posted: 6/22/2020 3:50:04 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Very real, and not a full view of the entire mechanism. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/468179/HKG11-1471724.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: A lot of it is difficult to work on though. A lot of German designers don't understand "Keep it simple". Example, the HK G11's action. What the hell were they thinking? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/468179/B243733F-C57B-479F-8F2A-F7238F61680D-761139.jpg Is that Real?  . I don't even know what to say.Very real, and not a full view of the entire mechanism. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/468179/HKG11-1471724.jpg To be fair to the G11, those internals are appropriate for the design - the worlds most advanced firearm that is still without peer 30 years later. Namely, a gun that fires 3x caseless rounds in 2400rpm hyperburst. Each 'shot' shown in the video with heavy recoil is actually 3 rounds being fired at 2400rpm   Heckler & Koch G11 Assault Rifle   Its also important to take into account the West German war plan behind the G11. It was not a 'service rifle' for regular warfare. It was designed to be a Communist LawnMower for a WW3 suicide mission. West German war plans reportedly expected their infantry to last 3 minutes to 3 hours once dismounted should WW3 go hot. So its a rifle intended to last for ~3 hours, and kill as many rushin' red's as possible in that time period. Now all that said, I think the Steyr ACR was a much more practical weapon. And a regular AUG with 42rd magazine + compensator would have likely been the best choice for a WW3 last stand rifle. |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 3:54:47 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of it is difficult to work on though. A lot of German designers don't understand "Keep it simple". Example, the HK G11's action. What the hell were they thinking? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/468179/B243733F-C57B-479F-8F2A-F7238F61680D-761139.jpg  |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 4:03:19 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To be fair to the G11, those internals are appropriate for the design - the worlds most advanced firearm that is still without peer 30 years later. Namely, a gun that fires 3x caseless rounds in 2400rpm hyperburst. Each 'shot' shown in the video with heavy recoil is actually 3 rounds being fired at 2400rpm  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_didDgUjn0https://i.ibb.co/1QML8CY/HK-G11-Hit-probability.png https://i.ibb.co/Y0z57y4/g11compare.jpg Its also important to take into account the West German war plan behind the G11. It was not a 'service rifle' for regular warfare. It was designed to be a Communist LawnMower for a WW3 suicide mission. West German war plans reportedly expected their infantry to last 3 minutes to 3 hours once dismounted should WW3 go hot. So its a rifle intended to last for ~3 hours, and kill as many rushin' red's as possible in that time period. Now all that said, I think the Steyr ACR was a much more practical weapon. And a regular AUG with 42rd magazine + compensator would have likely been the best choice for a WW3 last stand rifle. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A lot of it is difficult to work on though. A lot of German designers don't understand "Keep it simple". Example, the HK G11's action. What the hell were they thinking? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/468179/B243733F-C57B-479F-8F2A-F7238F61680D-761139.jpg Is that Real? . I don't even know what to say.Very real, and not a full view of the entire mechanism. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/468179/HKG11-1471724.jpg To be fair to the G11, those internals are appropriate for the design - the worlds most advanced firearm that is still without peer 30 years later. Namely, a gun that fires 3x caseless rounds in 2400rpm hyperburst. Each 'shot' shown in the video with heavy recoil is actually 3 rounds being fired at 2400rpm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_didDgUjn0https://i.ibb.co/1QML8CY/HK-G11-Hit-probability.png https://i.ibb.co/Y0z57y4/g11compare.jpg Its also important to take into account the West German war plan behind the G11. It was not a 'service rifle' for regular warfare. It was designed to be a Communist LawnMower for a WW3 suicide mission. West German war plans reportedly expected their infantry to last 3 minutes to 3 hours once dismounted should WW3 go hot. So its a rifle intended to last for ~3 hours, and kill as many rushin' red's as possible in that time period. Now all that said, I think the Steyr ACR was a much more practical weapon. And a regular AUG with 42rd magazine + compensator would have likely been the best choice for a WW3 last stand rifle. Oh, I'm not arguing it wasn't an impressive piece of tech. It was decades ahead of it's time. How many other rifles are out there that even fire caseless ammo, let alone match it's capabilities. The problem is the complexity. There is a bit of disconnect here between our meanings too. In your supposed application it'd probably be fine, but HK actually submitted this thing to the ACR trials, which is evident when looking at the markings on the one pictured. There's no way it could ever be a standard issue rifle. |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 4:19:11 AM EDT
[#4]
German beer is best beer
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Posted: 6/22/2020 4:29:48 AM EDT
[#5]
They used to IMHO. I am a BMW owner for 20 years. Been to the factory and museum in Munich 6 times. The cars they make now are not what they were in their glory years 2000-2008. Once they abandoned the I6 for more complicated engines, they just suck. I won't be buying any new BMW.
Germans in general are good machinists, but they do not understand KISS. Which is their downfall. They like to wow you with fancy machinery, but that won't last in the long run. And they are using constraints that the EU poses, which hinders them as well. |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 4:56:31 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is a bit of disconnect here between our meanings too. In your supposed application it'd probably be fine, but HK actually submitted this thing to the ACR trials, which is evident when looking at the markings on the one pictured. There's no way it could ever be a standard issue rifle. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A lot of it is difficult to work on though. A lot of German designers don't understand "Keep it simple". Example, the HK G11's action. What the hell were they thinking? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/468179/B243733F-C57B-479F-8F2A-F7238F61680D-761139.jpg Is that Real? . I don't even know what to say.Very real, and not a full view of the entire mechanism. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/468179/HKG11-1471724.jpg To be fair to the G11, those internals are appropriate for the design - the worlds most advanced firearm that is still without peer 30 years later. Namely, a gun that fires 3x caseless rounds in 2400rpm hyperburst. Each 'shot' shown in the video with heavy recoil is actually 3 rounds being fired at 2400rpm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_didDgUjn0https://i.ibb.co/1QML8CY/HK-G11-Hit-probability.png https://i.ibb.co/Y0z57y4/g11compare.jpg Its also important to take into account the West German war plan behind the G11. It was not a 'service rifle' for regular warfare. It was designed to be a Communist LawnMower for a WW3 suicide mission. West German war plans reportedly expected their infantry to last 3 minutes to 3 hours once dismounted should WW3 go hot. So its a rifle intended to last for ~3 hours, and kill as many rushin' red's as possible in that time period. Now all that said, I think the Steyr ACR was a much more practical weapon. And a regular AUG with 42rd magazine + compensator would have likely been the best choice for a WW3 last stand rifle. There is a bit of disconnect here between our meanings too. In your supposed application it'd probably be fine, but HK actually submitted this thing to the ACR trials, which is evident when looking at the markings on the one pictured. There's no way it could ever be a standard issue rifle. Yes, it would have been a poor choice for the ACR. Not only the complexity, but the magazines themselves are like 18" long, which has always been my chief complaint. The entire system was retarded, in that they expected soldiers to carry 2x 45rd mags, then reload them with specially designed 15rd plastic stripper clip boxes. Basically ruining the entire purpose of caseless ammo - being able to carry a lot of it. However, the rifle had already been designed by the ACR trials, and simultaneously, the Berlin wall fell in 1989, right before the ACR trials. G11 design began in 1968-1970. So for H&K, it was the only candidate they could have submitted, and also ACR represented the last hope for the G11, as the Cold War, WW3 mission the G11 was built for had ended, and HK had bankrupted itself with the Moonshot G11 program. |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 5:06:08 AM EDT
[#7]
They make good tools, but not as good as Snap-On or Mac
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Posted: 6/22/2020 5:22:19 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They make good tools, but not as good as Snap-On or Mac Knipex is pretty spectacular. Their spring loaded mini bolt-cutter is incredible.  KNIPEX Mini Bolt Cutter |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 7:41:25 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They make good tools, but not as good as Snap-On or Mac Snapon is the word leader, but Hazet and Sthalwillie blow macs tools out the water. Snapon be slipping lately to, chrome has gotten cheap on the newer stuff. |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 7:42:47 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe because we abducted they're scientists so we could shoot rockets to the moon and by the way Americans would still be shitting in holes in the ground if it weren't for the European man  We make the best rockets. Germany is a non-factor in 2020.   EVs are going to kill the German auto industry as well. Germany sucks ass at electronic things. |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 7:48:51 AM EDT
[#11]
Germans are hard headed fuckers.
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Posted: 6/22/2020 7:49:18 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: As someone of German descent, I may be rather biased. That being said, it’s impossible to deny that they make good shit. Wait so owning a BMW or Mercedes out of warranty is now a good idea? |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 7:51:24 AM EDT
[#13]
Love these things:
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Posted: 6/22/2020 7:58:44 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Germans are hard headed fuckers. God's honest truth right there. |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 7:59:49 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Must have missed that pornhub category.  
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Posted: 6/22/2020 8:04:12 AM EDT
[#16]
The V2 rockets were pretty badass.
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Posted: 6/22/2020 8:11:48 AM EDT
[#17]
Why make things simple when you can make them better?
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Posted: 6/22/2020 8:24:24 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Germans are hard headed fuckers. And don't you dare insult their craftsmanship. |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 8:30:45 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t think german toilets are best toilets Whatchu talkin bout, Willis?? Inspection plateau is genius. |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 8:46:51 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Over complicated is not over engineered. It’s under engineered. Truth! We have some German machinery in our factory and this describes it very well. German machinery tends to have about 3x the number of needed moving parts. |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 10:00:41 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Over complicated is not over engineered. It's under engineered. |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 10:05:58 AM EDT
[#22]
German engineering= why use 1 part when 4 parts will do.
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Posted: 6/22/2020 10:07:01 AM EDT
[#23]
well it's interesting because ..... they are and they aren't at the same time
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Posted: 6/22/2020 10:08:32 AM EDT
[#24]
Certainly not music or art, or comedy, or porn for that matter...unless you like scat and gonzo sex shit.
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Posted: 6/22/2020 10:11:17 AM EDT
[#25]
My Mercedes Benz is an over engineered piece of shit!
I lived in Germany for three year and while they produce a great deal of nice products they are not the best in all of their endeavors. |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 10:12:38 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Certainly not music or art, or comedy, or porn for that matter...unless you like scat and gonzo sex shit. |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 10:13:21 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The lange vizier is very well over-engineered. 400 yard zero sucks though. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/434737/P1010252_JPG-1471396.JPG I know the US had some stupidly complex battle computers sitting on their Krags and early 1903's, but at least those you could crank down to a decent battle setting and leave it there for the entire war. |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 10:15:31 AM EDT
[#28]
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Posted: 6/22/2020 10:16:06 AM EDT
[#29]
German secondary education is a lot more stringent with regards to Engineering. For instance, a Mechanical Designer degree (not even a full-fledged engineering degree) is five years if I understand their system correctly. I worked with a designer years ago and the dude was a wiz from a design prospective (also who told me the 5 year bit). I think they, like most other countries other than the US, put a lot more stock in post graduate degrees. Hardly any US students go on for a Masters or PhD whereas it's quite common for international students. When I did my MS, my cohort was maybe a few hundred throughout. Maybe 10-20 of us were US citizens. With regards to the Germans, I think this mentality elevates them to another level in engineering.
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Posted: 6/22/2020 10:16:17 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I read an article years ago answering that very question. After WW2 Germany and Japan were restricted from building a military. Rather the US would station troops within their borders to be a defensive force. As a result, their most brilliant engineering minds went into consumer goods/automotive engineering. This stands in stark contrast to the US where our best students tend to get recruited into the military industrial complex. So their general consumer stuff is outstanding, where ours is okay. The whole series is on Amazon. |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 10:16:40 AM EDT
[#31]
Funny, I thought the Italians make great clothes, shoes, food, wine, guns without all auf Deutsch over-engineering.
Krauts started 2 world wars in search of better food. Tim Allen even did a stand-up schtick on it back in the 1980s.
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Posted: 6/22/2020 10:19:07 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t think german toilets are best toilets Japanese toilets are the best! Germans make great engineers and manufacturers because of their cultural obsession with following rules and procedures coupled with national pride. Kind of like the Japanese only they are a touch more pragmatic. Americans make good engineers because of problem solving and independent thought. Which, doesn’t make for the best manufacturers. We’re not good rote workers. We need to be challenged. That’s why current day American are insane. Survival is guaranteed by the government so there is no challenge for most people. So, they go crazy. TC |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 10:20:13 AM EDT
[#33]
They don't make the best everything, but they do make some good stuff. A lot of German autos are quirky, finicky, and have features nobody asked for. My friend's VW glove box was designed so that you could chill a bottle of wine in it.
I will say they seem to be committed to a basic level of quality, but to say they make the best everything... not so much. |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 10:21:02 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Funny, I thought the Italians make great clothes, shoes, food, wine, guns without all auf Deutsch over-engineering. Krauts started 2 world wars in search of better food. Tim Allen even did a stand-up schtick on it back in the 1980s.  Italy's Worst Machine Gun: The Breda Modello 30 |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 10:21:30 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of it is difficult to work on though. A lot of German designers don't understand "Keep it simple". Example, the HK G11's action. What the hell were they thinking? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/468179/B243733F-C57B-479F-8F2A-F7238F61680D-761139.jpg Looks like they wanted the G11 to run like a clock...
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Posted: 6/22/2020 10:21:40 AM EDT
[#36]
I used to work with German engineers. They're the best at everything. If you don't know that just wait a minute and they will tell you. They equated complexity with great design work. They would spend 3yrs designing a new piece of equipment and our American team would spend a year making it work and not actually fall apart during use. Essentially a complete redesign in a year.
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Posted: 6/22/2020 10:26:08 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The two modern times they made war, it pulled the entire world into it. Seems rather good, to me. It took the 3 largest superowers on the planet to defeat a country the of what, texas? Their mistake was two fronts, and Russia. Had they settled for mainland Europe, there would be no france, or low countries today. Likely no Poland either. |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 10:34:03 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Airbus engineering cost them plenty. We were glad to cash it in. (Laughs in Max...)  TC |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 10:37:22 AM EDT
[#39]
German cars are shit. Just because they can be fancy and have a crapload of bells and whistles that shit the bed doesn’t mean they are good. Ok they make cutlery but are over priced.
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Posted: 6/22/2020 10:40:59 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It took the 3 largest superowers on the planet to defeat a country the of what, texas? Their mistake was two fronts, and Russia. Had they settled for mainland Europe, there would be no france, or low countries today. Likely no Poland either. Germany was the world's second-largest economic/industrial power after the US when they started WWII. |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 10:46:15 AM EDT
[#41]
Ive been replacing all my tools with German stuff. The Stahlwille brand is fantastic. Its been kind of nice not blowing my money on gun stuff for a change too.
   
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Posted: 6/22/2020 10:48:46 AM EDT
[#42]
Workers are less stressed.
Mandatory benefits for employees in Germany include: Sick Days. Employees are entitled to sick pay equal to regular remuneration for up to six weeks once they have been employed for four weeks. Vacation Days - starting at 20 days annually. Full paid maternity leave - 14 weeks starting 6 weeks before birth date. Severance Pay Pension Fund - guaranteed up to 67% of average annual wage. Social Security Health Insurance - mandated two-tier system. Basic coverage for those unable to afford private insurance. Flexible schedules for many employees. |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 11:04:36 AM EDT
[#43]
Are RG and Rohm revolvers the same company? German made and total shit.
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Posted: 6/22/2020 11:09:02 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Over engineering is the only engineering.  Sure, if you aren't interested in making a profit. |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 11:11:56 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: As someone of German descent, I may be rather biased. That being said, it’s impossible to deny that they make good shit. That must be why their economy is the largest in the world
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Posted: 6/22/2020 11:14:23 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That must be why their economy is the largest in the world California's economy is $3.1 trillion vs. $3.8 trillion in Germany |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 11:18:47 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: German cars are shit. Just because they can be fancy and have a crapload of bells and whistles that shit the bed doesn’t mean they are good. Ok they make cutlery but are over priced. Yea, but Japanese cars have those wonderful “Transformers” shit going on, like 6 different styles of cup & cellphone holders, and other technoshit. |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 11:21:23 AM EDT
[#48]
The Austrians say hi.
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Posted: 6/22/2020 11:41:16 AM EDT
[#49]
Attention to detail
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Posted: 6/22/2020 11:41:43 AM EDT
[#50]
Anal fetishes.
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