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Posted: 6/14/2023 9:40:35 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: This is the thread I was thinking about a while back: https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/283917-sti-tactical-2011-vs-staccato/ Thanks! |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 9:53:10 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In my opinion, STI was trying to do too much and spread themselves thin. Single and double stacks in at least 3 calibers, imports like the Spartan and Grand Power, constantly changing lineups, QC that went from good to OK to poor and back again. Heavy internet based marketing to the Costa fanboys, plus narrowing their focus to 9mm and jacking up the price to a point they didn’t have to constantly chase cash flow was apparently a successful strategy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: And did STI's get more popular now that Staccato is the new heat, or are they considered old and busted? I've got a NIB STI .45 single stack that I never got around to using, figured it was what it was, and then I see that all of a sudden the renamed company is the shizzle. STI was a good company that made intro guns for USPSA and a bunch of 1911s. Then they tried to make just competition guns (DVC), but it soon became apparent that their guns wouldn't last with the high round counts comp shooters shot. So they went to the tactical timmy market with a big instagram marketing campaign. It works great for them because timmies don't shoot a lot but like to spend a lot of money to try to impress other shooters. In my opinion, STI was trying to do too much and spread themselves thin. Single and double stacks in at least 3 calibers, imports like the Spartan and Grand Power, constantly changing lineups, QC that went from good to OK to poor and back again. Heavy internet based marketing to the Costa fanboys, plus narrowing their focus to 9mm and jacking up the price to a point they didn’t have to constantly chase cash flow was apparently a successful strategy. I never understood how they did so many models and then the closer to the end they were switching up them out like crazy. They did some really cool variations over the years. I always wanted an Apeiro. |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 9:56:22 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1. Mount a red dot out of the box 2. Have mags that pretty much work out of the box now The 2011 has actually been around about 30 years at this point, but most never heard of them until the last 10. It’s quite amusing to me how many people I’ve seen go from “the 1911 is an unreliable POS” to “this is the best gun a human has ever made”. Goes to show most of the 1911 hate was actually the feature set, which Staccato addressed well. |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 10:04:30 PM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 6/14/2023 10:05:27 PM EDT
[#5]
There seem to be MANY misconceptions about Staccatos by posters in this thread. That alone leads me to believe that many people talking about them have never worked with one.
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Posted: 6/14/2023 10:13:36 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A nice 1911 trigger can be had for much cheaper |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 10:24:05 PM EDT
[#7]
I've shot a few. They're nice but I still wouldn't carry one for work.
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Posted: 6/14/2023 10:51:20 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There seem to be MANY misconceptions about Staccatos by posters in this thread. That alone leads me to believe that many people talking about them have never worked with one. And what would those many misconception be? |
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Posted: 6/14/2023 10:54:53 PM EDT
[#9]
The only Staccato I still have
 
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Posted: 6/15/2023 12:17:02 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People think they're expensive now.... Used to pay a bunch then have to tune your own magazines. Magazine availability has been huge too All the STI guys that I know had to send theirs into Grahams Engineering to do the tune ups. And whenever those things hit the floor, they’d break down the mags and brush out the tubes after every stage. For the Staccato, I shot the P DPO at hard as hell 3gun and that thing got caked with all the swirling dust and all that crawling. I never had to break down my mags once. The gun just ran. I did have the latest Gen mags though. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 12:53:21 AM EDT
[#11]
My $300 Taurus G3 does the same thing a $2500 Staccato does. It shoots bullets.
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Posted: 6/15/2023 12:56:52 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s quite amusing to me how many people I’ve seen go from “the 1911 is an unreliable POS” to “this is the best gun a human has ever made”. Goes to show most of the 1911 hate was actually the feature set, which Staccato addressed well. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 1. Mount a red dot out of the box 2. Have mags that pretty much work out of the box now The 2011 has actually been around about 30 years at this point, but most never heard of them until the last 10. It’s quite amusing to me how many people I’ve seen go from “the 1911 is an unreliable POS” to “this is the best gun a human has ever made”. Goes to show most of the 1911 hate was actually the feature set, which Staccato addressed well. 75% of 1911 problems are shitty mags. Another 15-20% are springs, or extractors. Not terribly difficult to diagnose or correct, but still frustrating to experience for new shooters with new expensive pistols. Reliability seems to have come a long way in the production guns by the early 2000s. A lot of that improvement got ignored in the noise caused by the rise of Glock. Who doesn't like a cheaper, more reliable gun with greater capacity? Only problem is the shit trigger and ergonomics. There are some decent triggers available now, and some better ergonomic options (oops there goes the cheap price). Staccato (and others) seems to have cracked the code with the 2011s and double stacked 1911s. I can't wait to get mine. It's an awesome time in firearms tech. Lots of good options for pistols now, with a lot less major tradeoffs, than in the past. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:02:10 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My $300 Taurus G3 does the same thing a $2500 Staccato does. It shoots bullets. My $3K Ford was doing the same thing, on the same street, as a $2.6M Lambo today. It drives. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:03:48 AM EDT
[#14]
I'd much rather have this.....
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:13:34 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: When the vast majority of people are not capable of firing a handgun accurately anyway, why spend the scratch for a Staccato when a Glock 19 is more accurate than most of us and way cheaper? You have clearly never shot one. Besides, your statement ignores the joy of owning and using a finely crafted item. The vast majority of exotic car owners are unable to drive them properly. They don’t own them because of their driving prowess. They own them because they are cool or it’s a status symbol. Go on questioning why someone would own a Staccato. Hating on people because they own something you can’t afford is a proud American tradition. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:20:30 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I bought some with the thought of replacing my glocks I carry and I still carry my glocks. Eta: they are nice and fun to shoot and very accurate. I have a p and a c2 both with rmrs. Can you explain why? I won’t buy without intention of carrying. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 2:45:46 AM EDT
[#17]
Will never own one, too expensive for what it is. Shot on once, wasn't that impressed. Could take the money towards and put it towards some nice suppressors, NODs, MAWL, good scope, and any number of things. If you like it, good for you. I think think you'd be better of spending the money on something else, unless maybe you just have everything.
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Posted: 6/15/2023 8:47:29 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: US Army Delta Force gave Staccato a try. They gave up and went back to Glock. They trialed STI guns. Did some ignorant shit like take them all apart mix the parts up put them back together and they weren’t 100 percent so they sent them back. Unless they have done something more recent. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 8:51:14 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are saying it was apparent the guns wouldn't handle high round count? Of all the issues I've seen and heard I don't remember that one. I also don't remember them only making competition guns but I wasn't paying real close attention at the end of STI before they switched. I do remember a DVC Tactical. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: And did STI's get more popular now that Staccato is the new heat, or are they considered old and busted? I've got a NIB STI .45 single stack that I never got around to using, figured it was what it was, and then I see that all of a sudden the renamed company is the shizzle. STI was a good company that made intro guns for USPSA and a bunch of 1911s. Then they tried to make just competition guns (DVC), but it soon became apparent that their guns wouldn't last with the high round counts comp shooters shot. So they went to the tactical timmy market with a big instagram marketing campaign. It works great for them because timmies don't shoot a lot but like to spend a lot of money to try to impress other shooters. You are saying it was apparent the guns wouldn't handle high round count? Of all the issues I've seen and heard I don't remember that one. I also don't remember them only making competition guns but I wasn't paying real close attention at the end of STI before they switched. I do remember a DVC Tactical. Live near Georgetown their tactical guns have been in coos holsters here forever. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 8:57:28 AM EDT
[#20]
Wanna know how I know the OP only dabbles in pistols?
This is the whole, “Why would someone ever buy a Bugatti when my Honda Civic can get me from A to B just as reliably!” I guess if you don’t get the love for Staccatos, you’ll really be bending your wig when it comes to Atlas. And yea, I carry a G17 and a G48 for work. Glocks are decent pistols. They just aren’t Staccato. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 9:49:25 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You have clearly never shot one. Besides, your statement ignores the joy of owning and using a finely crafted item. The vast majority of exotic car owners are unable to drive them properly. They don’t own them because of their driving prowess. They own them because they are cool or it’s a status symbol. Go on questioning why someone would own a Staccato. Hating on people because they own something you can’t afford is a proud American tradition. I wouldn’t call a Staccato “finely crafted.” They’re a mass produced 2011 with very limited hand fitting. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 10:28:55 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They trialed STI guns. Did some ignorant shit like take them all apart mix the parts up put them back together and they weren't 100 percent so they sent them back. Unless they have done something more recent. One problem with 1911s in general is that they're like having a hot girlfriend. You get your ego invested in them and start being a dumbass. James Yeager covered this in his video about why 1911s suck. He said people would come to his classes with 1911s and start making all kinds of excuses, like literally saying, "That's not a malfunction, that's just a failure to feed." If your 1911 stops working usually you jump on this endless carousel of trying all kinds of aftermarket mags, experimenting with more or less lube, sending it out to get fixed, doing some hand fitting, etc. You just need to know what you're getting into when you buy different guns. It's an old design. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 10:32:36 AM EDT
[#23]
As an HK guy, it amuses me to see people defending the $3k 9mm gun when not too long ago, some of these same people were having apoplectic contortions deriding the $1,000 hand fitted USP Expert vs their awesome "can do the same thing" stock Glocks.
The Staccato's look good and seem to perform well. When stacked up against other 2011's, it actually seems like a good deal. I like the competition model with the ported front. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 10:48:15 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can you explain why? I won’t buy without intention of carrying. @Colo303 I can tell you I daily carry a C2. I discovered I am my likely to practice with my carry gun if I actually enjoy shooting it, so my C2 fit perfectly in my Venn diagram of size, weight, capacity, accuracy, and desire to train with it. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 10:49:04 AM EDT
[#25]
Trump should run on “A Staccato in every holster” campaign
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Posted: 6/15/2023 10:51:38 AM EDT
[#26]
I have a P and C2. Both are fantastic guns to shoot, but I shoot them for fun. I still cc my G19 or P365.
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Posted: 6/15/2023 10:52:44 AM EDT
[#27]
The 2011 platform is the only platform that can give the CZ-75/Tanfoglio design a run for the money in terms of performance.
You can't put a price on feel, and I am more in the Tanfo camp, but some of the 2011's I have shot were like mmmh mmmmh dee-lish to clear plate racks with for sure. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 10:53:08 AM EDT
[#28]
Anyone in Colorado want to let me try their C2?
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:52:10 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why get anything that's nice? Why have a luxury car when a Ford focus is good enough? Because we as a group, care way too much what someone else spends their own money on. I don't, because IDGAF what the other buys and uses. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:53:49 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why not love a Staccato? Staccato is a very nice pistol. Most of the benefits of a 1911, but without the main regret (limited capacity). I like G17, but a Staccato is a far superior pistol in meaningful ways: trigger, optics mounting, weight. That translates into a much easier and faster pistol. Both have shitty grip ergos. The G17 is lighter, which is good for carrying (not shooting). It may be a little more reliable. MOS system is shit, trigger is shit, grip angle is shit. A G17 with a good trigger and logic cut is 2/3 the price of a Staccato. As is a Shadow systems that solves a lot of the Glock design stupidity. And the trigger is still far inferior no matter what. For the record, I do own a G17 clone and like it a lot. I do not own a Staccato. I came close a few times, but decided I wanted a Wilson instead, because the grip ergos suck. CSB |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:54:53 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It definitely worked. Make guns that don't work when shot a shit ton, then market to people who don't shoot a lot. LEO and tacticools! Perfect! Decent guns, trigger isn't really that great on the lower models(P and below). CSB bro. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:03:19 PM EDT
[#32]
All those years tacti-bros talked shit on 1911's because Glock Perfection and now look at them. It's fucking disgusting.
1911's are cool. Always have been. And they are really fun to shoot. And accurate, too. And they make for really pretty B8 groups at 25 yards. (Something else tacti-bros talked shit on) Plus everything in the gun world runs in cycles of 20-30 years. It's just the first time I've been alive long enough to see it happen. Revolvers and 1911's getting hot again. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:12:32 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My $300 Taurus G3 does the same thing a $2500 Staccato does. It shoots bullets. I know that this is GD, but what's your point here? To be edgy? To be a poor or a tightwad that is also shitposting? I have no idea of your financial status, nor do I care. If you're an actual poor or a cheapo, well I am not going to knock down down because most of us started off the same way, broke and do understand. But some of us who can afford nicer things, that does things subjectively better than your Taurus, we just don't want to settle for less when they can afford something a bit better. Now go take your Taurus and race it against a 2011 and then get back to us, because you're supposed to run your gun and not your mouth. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:15:06 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They trialed STI guns. Did some ignorant shit like take them all apart mix the parts up put them back together and they weren't 100 percent so they sent them back. Unless they have done something more recent. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:20:11 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Will never own one, too expensive for what it is. Shot on once, wasn't that impressed. Could take the money towards and put it towards some nice suppressors, NODs, MAWL, good scope, and any number of things. If you like it, good for you. I think think you'd be better of spending the money on something else, unless maybe you just have everything. Some people either have different priorities than you, or already have all of that. It's not up to us to decide for them. I don't understand why some of you have a problem with this, but whatever and enjoy the impotency of your control over others because to them, they really are better off buying it than you thought they were. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:37:22 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: CSB bro. Cool story bro bro  It’s factual. They’re good entry level guns, they aren’t high end 2011s. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:58:05 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You know you don't need to make excuses for them. You don't work for them. One problem with 1911s in general is that they're like having a hot girlfriend. You get your ego invested in them and start being a dumbass. James Yeager covered this in his video about why 1911s suck. He said people would come to his classes with 1911s and start making all kinds of excuses, like literally saying, "That's not a malfunction, that's just a failure to feed." If your 1911 stops working usually you jump on this endless carousel of trying all kinds of aftermarket mags, experimenting with more or less lube, sending it out to get fixed, doing some hand fitting, etc. You just need to know what you're getting into when you buy different guns. It's an old design. Yeager was a dumb ass narcissist and your ego is definitely showing here. The 19 he had jammed on video and blamed the ammo, it's why his opinion is to be disregarded completely since he has a bias and could not intellectually honest. Serious projecting on his part. Typical Glock diehard to say too, hurr durr it was the ammo and not the gun, hurr durr. Sometimes it's the gun and sometimes i's both, and sometimes it's the ammo. I have yet to ever hear you glock fanatics ever say that it was the gun despite it obviously being the case By the way, Glock owners do the same thing. But I've only done that with my Glocks and not my 1911. Narrative destruction right there. Now, can we enjoy a 1911/2011 thread without the shitposting BS misinformation agendas, please? Thanks. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 4:58:58 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As an HK guy, it amuses me to see people defending the $3k 9mm gun when not too long ago, some of these same people were having apoplectic contortions deriding the $1,000 hand fitted USP Expert vs their awesome "can do the same thing" stock Glocks. The Staccato's look good and seem to perform well. When stacked up against other 2011's, it actually seems like a good deal. I like the competition model with the ported front. Confirmation bias some people don't think it be like it is, but it do. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 5:00:26 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cool story bro bro It’s factual. They’re good entry level guns, they aren’t high end 2011s. lol, CSB. indeed.
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Posted: 6/15/2023 5:01:05 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All those years tacti-bros talked shit on 1911's because Glock Perfection and now look at them. It's fucking disgusting. 1911's are cool. Always have been. And they are really fun to shoot. And accurate, too. And they make for really pretty B8 groups at 25 yards. (Something else tacti-bros talked shit on) Plus everything in the gun world runs in cycles of 20-30 years. It's just the first time I've been alive long enough to see it happen. Revolvers and 1911's getting hot again. I still don't understand the Sig/Beretta DA/SA deal. At least with striker fired pistols you get a consistent pull. The only defense is "bro just train around it" Okay sure I could but why would I want to? |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 5:01:29 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My $300 Taurus G3 does the same thing a $2500 Staccato does. It shoots bullets. 
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Posted: 6/15/2023 5:04:12 PM EDT
[#42]
I like Glocks and 1911s and 2011s and HKs.
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Posted: 6/15/2023 5:06:01 PM EDT
[#43]
When I was heavy into USPSA & IDPA I shot Glocks and STI's. I always shot better with Glocks for some reason, and I can't put my finger on why that is. STI's are great guns, no doubt about that.
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Posted: 6/15/2023 5:10:50 PM EDT
[#44]
2011s are awesome. I had the opportunity to shoot a couple belonging to a friend and the reputation is deserved.
I went this route though: https://www.ar15.com/forums/Handguns/I-ll-make-my-own-Staccato-but-better-With-blackjack-and-hookers-/16-206013/ |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 5:25:35 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cool story bro bro It’s factual. They’re good entry level guns, they aren’t high end 2011s. They are entry level for the 2011 high volume shooting world. They are high end for the tactical timmie world of being a gear queers. They bought into the lifestyle just like BRCC. They believe that they are the best because that is what marketing have told them. They are blind to the rest of the 2011 world |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 5:45:38 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My $3K Ford was doing the same thing, on the same street, as a $2.6M Lambo today. It drives. Exactly. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 5:45:48 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are entry level for the 2011 high volume shooting world. They are high end for the tactical timmie world of being a gear queers. They bought into the lifestyle just like BRCC. They believe that they are the best because that is what marketing have told them. They are blind to the rest of the 2011 world You are correct. I was speaking in context of competition where people actually send a lot of rounds down the pipe and 2011s are utilized a lot. Mainly in open and limited, now the limited optics is a thing I am seeing some Staccatos in competition as well. Those who think Staccato is amazing haven’t had the opportunity to shoot something like an Infinity, Atlas or Brazos Custom gun. Staccato makes a good gun, but not even close to the greatest thing in the 2011 world. That said, contrary to several statements here, they are a lot of gun for the money. Compare the price of an XC to that of an Atlas Erebus or a Sand Viper…. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 6:46:58 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My $3K Ford was doing the same thing, on the same street, as a $2.6M Lambo today. It drives. Exactly. Exactly what now? Are you saying that your 3k Ford can do what a Lamborghini can do? A 5.2 second Taurus can also do a 2.5 in zero to sixty? The people like me buying a Ford are not buying it because it drives. We're buying it because it's cheap and want no frills. The people buying higher end are wanting frills. I see zero reason to talk them down from wanting so. Exactly indeed. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 6:57:18 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All those years tacti-bros talked shit on 1911's because Glock Perfection and now look at them. It's fucking disgusting. 1911's are cool. Always have been. And they are really fun to shoot. And accurate, too. And they make for really pretty B8 groups at 25 yards. (Something else tacti-bros talked shit on) Plus everything in the gun world runs in cycles of 20-30 years. It's just the first time I've been alive long enough to see it happen. Revolvers and 1911's getting hot again.  If you have never watched "American Gunmaker: The John M. Browning Story," you owe it to yourself to learn about an important person and his creations of American history. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 7:02:21 PM EDT
[#50]
I Carry Glocks and Sigs, and they’re perfectly good pistols.
But… I’d like a Staccato or similar. I love the trigger on a 1911, even my Tisas Army ‘clone’ 1911 has a better trigger than the plastic guns. Or the Sig P series guns I have (even with SRT’s). A nice 1911 version in 9mm seems like it’d be crazy easy to shoot. I’m still carrying striker and SA/DA guns, and happy enough. But the straight pull SÃO trigger system like the 1911 style, is really the best. |
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