I've always believed that the shot that scrambled JFK's brain came from the front. Just by the way
his head moved back.  Theories on a deadly frontal shot range from the picket fencing behind the Grassy Knoll to the under structure of the RR bridge.

I suspect the kill shot came from the storm drain (the one with manhole cover, just below the Knoll/stepss area). I've not been there, but just by gaging things from aerials on Google Maps, that would have been a 60-70' shot, and it was on JFK's side of the limo. Something small and high powered, like an old Thompson Contender could have been handled in that drain. From light research, that drain, the one across the street and the one up behind the Grassy Knoll picket fence were all interconnected.

Perfect vantage point for minimal witnesses if you knew the enterage was going to file right by.

Another reason i believe it to be the spot was because we used to play and explore the storm drains in Houston back in the late 60s. We'd hide in them at intersections and mess with folks passing by. Shout "HEY" as they passed by or toss an empty beer can. Not one person ever figured out where we were. Our entry and egress point was the main drain that dumped into a creek about 60' from that intersection.

I'm not sure if all storm drains in Texas were standardized then, but if they were, there was plenty of room for a fit and average sized man to move around. As far as visibility, i could easily see half the street on the hard left or right.

I was never an X Files fan, but i later found out they did an episode about the JFK killing where the assassin was in a storm drain. That drain in the video was across the street where he had a clear view of the mysterious "umbrella man". In my mental version, the killer was in the drain on JFK's side of the street.

Even Connelly said it was two different shots. And look at the entrance hole in JFK compared to the exit hole.

Without looking it up, I think Rubenstein.

Lived through these events and always accepted the story that LHO acted alone until recently. The possibility LHO was a patsey/government agent is worth considering.

Long but interesting.

Assuming there was government involvement, if the undisclosed information about the JFK assination being held all these years is ever released if will be long after the generations that knew JFK and lived in those times have long ago past away.  Future generations will look at any new revelations as no more than an interesting sidenote to the history of a bygone era. Would such a release be factual, point fingers at the possible or actual actors in the government?  Not likely.

Looking at it another way would today's public be up in arms if credible information was released tomorrow that Lincoln was actually killed by someone that resembled JWB but was in fact another individual.... who was a Pinkerton...or a Union Army officer?  If would become the stuff of future college history lectures but I would give it less than a week in the current news cycle. Two weeks tops.

He was very impoverished, look at the guy he barely had enough food to eat because he couldn't get down a job due to being an antisocial narcissist.

He was a prototype for antifa. Like others have said he couldn't afford anything better, also the Garand is a little bit more difficult to mount an optic on and harder to conceal.

If you go back and look at all the facts and all the information that was available right after this happened it's clear he was guilty as sin. People knew the shots came from the school Book Depository right away due to eyewitnesses. When police searched the building the guy that ran the place told them that Lee was missing. It was basic police work.

The police were patrolling looking for someone fitting his description, he shot JD Tippett and people witnessed that and followed him, that's how he was caught.

It's funny that people try to turn him into a patsy, he had already tried to kill General Edwin Walker, but missed.

He had left behind a suicide note and his wedding ring, his brother said he was guilty. All these communist Fellow Travelers out there have spent decades trying to make it out to be a conspiracy because they don't want one of their own to be guilty.

The FBI knew about oswalt and they had run ins with him but they dropped the ball and I think that's what the unreleased information is about. He was on their radar..

LHO was a very disturbed person who thought he was destined for greatness, he got lucky and was in the right place at the right time. His first shot missed and hit a red light fixture, the second shot was the one that hit Kennedy in the neck and pass through soft tissue hitting Governor Conley who was sitting on a jump seat that was lower and forward of Kennedy. And we all know what the third shot did.

It had been raining earlier but it had stopped so they took the plastic bubble top off the limo that might have helped obscure the shot, Kennedy wanted to be seen and LBJ had encouraged him to make the trip because they needed Texas to one reelection.

Clint Hill who is still alive but getting in bad shape was the secret service agent who ran up and jumped on the back of the limo, he was actually assigned to Jackie and that's why he was on the left side of the car, they only had seconds to react, about 15 seconds from the beginning to end if you include the first shot that most of them didn't recognize, if the other agent who was assigned to Kennedy had jumped off of the running board of the follow car and got on the back of the limo fast enough they could have saved Kennedy from that last shot. I can't remember that agent's name but supposedly he was told to stay on the car. I don't know if that's because they thought he couldn't get off of it safely, there a motorcycle driving right next to him.

It was a horrible tragedy and I don't doubt there a lot of sketchy things going on within the government but on that day Oswalt was The Lone Gunman.

I wont post them here but the autopsy photos are out there. They show the rear entrance wound in the back of the skull and the side blown out. Bullet fragments were found in the front of the car and photos show that the front windshield was not cracked after connelly and kennedy were first hit but was cracked after the fatal head shot . The fragments found in the front of the car were matched to a fragment taken from the skull by neutron activation analysis done by the House Assassination Committee in 1976.

When a target is shot from the back, it does not violently snap backward as Kennedy's body did when the side of his head came off. Jackie also was apparently tring to collect brain matter/skull fragments off the trunk of the limo. The position of this material does not point to the fatal shot being from behind. Oswald may have shot at Kennedy. He may have hit him. But the fatal shot came from the front.

I've always wondered why Oswald didn't shoot when the limo was coming directly at him, while slowing to turn the corner into the plaza. Afraid bystanders & the security detail would pinpoint him immediately?

Yeah if it weren’t for Ruby and Oswald saying he was a patsy (unusual thing to say) the whole thing would almost be believable, minus his obviously fake commie activities, etc.

Hundreds of Thousands (perhaps millions) of Garands had been sent all over the world as US Military Aid. - Turkey, Denmark, Taiwan, S. Korea, Philippines, ect...

South Vietnam was receiving Garands for combat in the 60's.

Battle of Ap Bac South Vietnam 1963



Garands were still issue for the National Guard into the 70's - The Kent State 'massacre' in 1970 was by Ohio National Guardsmen with M1 Garands.

He was bias against using an evil semi-auto ‘weapon of war,’ so he opted instead for the ‘world’s worst’ bolt-action rifle. Since he was also nutz the decision doesn’t have to make sense.

Yup. He paid $19.95 for the Cacarno and if memory serves, a Garand was running something like $108 at the time.

They were out there but they were expensive as hell and IIRC not in really good shape.

My guess now looking back on it is they were re-imports that we gave away/lent out/leased overseas following WW2.

You COULD get a Match Garand from CMP on some once in a lifetime deal for about $100 back in the day but there were a LOT of hoops you had to jump through.

visit the 6th floor museum. from that angle the windshield obscured most of the shooting lane as it approached the building.

I stand corrected. $89.95 for a Garand. I recall the $108 from Popular Science ads or something.

This has been proven multiple times to be false now especially since the zapruder film didn't have enough FPS to truly capture the whole moment to show the whole impace/movement.

Gotcha.

In the back of my mind I've always thought that movie was just a fancy explanation of the JFK assassination, basically "telling us what happened" without actually telling us what happened kind of thing

That film gets brought up and discussed in GD every 3-4 months when we redo this thread. Somehow, a copy never seems to exist, but dozens of people swear to have seen it.

RFK Jr. recommends the book JFK And The Unspeakable to people who are trying to understand the assasination.  

I haven't read it, personally.

https://www.amazon.com/JFK-Unspeakable-Why-Died-Matters/dp/1439193886

In this interview JFK Jr. alledges that Oswald was recruited by CIA during his time at the Navel Air Facility Atsugi.

JFK comments begin at 1:10:30.



In other interviews he has asserted that Oswald was recruited personally by the head of CIA counter intelligence, James Jesus Angleton, to "defect" to Russia as a tool to help Angleton smoke out a Soviet mole placed in the highest reaches of US intelligence.  The concept was that when Oswald "defected" the Russians would put a query out to their mole as to his actual background.  Counterintelligence would then watch Oswald's dossier to see who came inquiring.  This might imply that his "assasination attempt" on General Walker was not a failure at all, and that it was entirely for show, to catch the attention of the Russians.  He "confessed" it immediately to his wife, and it is fairly predictable that she would tell other people in confidence, including family back in Russia--a conversation which would no doubt be picked electronically up by the KGB.

Interesting stuff.

One question for the conspiracy tards.  

Why not have constant BS threads on the Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King shootings? Both Sirhan and Ray lived, (Ray actually got away and was on the run  two months later in England when he was arrested).  Tons of material for stupid conspiracy crap, Hell, both say they were not the shooter and put forward govt conspiracies of their own.  

Sirhan was a Palestinian who hated RFK for his support of Israel.

Heck, Ray even made a harder shot with a more powerful rifle.  (had to pick out King thru a group of people standing around him)

King's own family claims that Ray was not the shooter.  Sirhan himself I believe is still alive.

Sirhan Sirhan is not only still alive, he was denied parole on March 1 of this year.

While for the most part this is a pretty good assessment, but I can't really say I agree with the line " All these communist Fellow Travelers out there have spent decades trying to make it out to be a conspiracy because they don't want one of their own to be guilty." .  That was a random addition that I don't really agree with.  the vast majority of conspiracy folks are the run-of-the-mill conspiracy folks more motivated by lack in trust in the government story (any government story, even when it might well be right), combined with the every-present human desire to be the wise one who is in-the-know and know something everyone else doesn't know; moreso than anything nefarious - IMHO.  But yes, the rest of your post is correct - pity you sullied the credibility of it with that one line.

I've been here since 1999.  The only time I've seen it brought up is when I mention it.

This.

I'm amused that you think they care.

I keep seeing claims like this made in every one of these threads. It's up there with "magic bullet" and "impossible shot" in the narrative.

What I don't see is any evidence of this. Every year since the assassination, the stories about how shitty the Carcano was seem to have gotten wilder and wilder.

Another oft-repeated, but nonsense claim. The expulsion of brain matter through the exit wound can and does cause heads to push back in such situations. There is a literally a frame in the Zapruder film where you can see the exit wound forming.

https://youtube.com/shorts/AlbFiUUNQyM?si=pNwI4UnZP1DSbfUu

Even the way Ventura worked the bolt was more than fast enough, and faster than most people can work an Enfield or Springfield bolt, as it's a shorter throw.

Stupid arguments are stupid, and become cause for questioning follow-on arguments that maybe aren't as obviously stupid on the surface.

I have watched the Zapruder film many times, and I have never seen the frame you are talking about. Maybe you should post it here.

Gunshot-wound dynamics model for John F. Kennedy assassination

Abnormal Posturing


So does severe brain injury.

The film is all over Youtube.

Here's one.



Right around 312 on the counter. You can see the spray, then the head movement.

Someone posted this in the last thread. The slo-mo at the end really captures it well.

The Zapruder film was what ~18 frames per second? A Carcano is moving at 2000+ feet per second. There's going to be some weirdness from things missed in between the frames.

It's like sampling a sensor too slow. You're not going to see the full data set/curve.  That's why those phone app "db meters" are useless for recording gunshots.

Indeed. But there's still nothing showing a shot from the front, and clearly brain matter flying out from the front of his head from the fatal shot.

Like with the Carcano stuff, we're supposed to just take these claims as fact.

The JFK film really just put all the conspiracy bullshit into overdrive. OMFG HE SAID THE QUIET THING OUT LOUD!

We have people in this thread literally introducing a subsequent Oliver Stone documentary as irrefutable proof, like it alone should be some sort of mike drop moment. Stone doesn't even pretend to be unbiased. His whole schtick has been shown to play fast and loose with facts, inventing evidence to fit a narrative while leaving out anything that would not.

Both are the subject of “conspiracy” claims, RFK’s own son pretty much eloquently debunks the idea that Sirhan killed him.

Here’s a question for the non-conspiracy, normalcy bias tards, how did Oswald happen to be working at the building that would be the perfect spot for a sniper shot on JFK before it was even announced he was coming to Dallas or a motorcade route established?

I think a lot of the claims of the rifle being inaccurate or the shot coming from somewhere else are disinformation bs. I think Oswald could have been the trigger man but his actions and statements afterwards would lead me to think he was involved but didn’t shoot then quickly figured out after he was being set up as the “patsy”.

Why would a poor, broke loser have an expensive microfilm camera? Guess he spend all his money on it, and the only rifle he could afford was a mail order Carcano.

https://debunked.wordpress.com/the-possessions-of-lee-harvey-oswald-photographic-equipment/

Been a good twenty something years since I last watched that. Jackie was lucky she didn’t die… she put her head nearly in line with his right as the dome burst. That’ll fuck a person up, what she saw.


Anyhow, the video looks like it shows the top right front of his head opening up. Given the position of the people in the vehicle and barriers such as the glass, I don’t see that shot coming from the front unless at an elevated position, and I would expect the round to be either in his head, in the trunk or through in the seat back, due to low velocity, causing the entrance wound (front) to begin expulsion prior to the exit wound. It’s possible that the bullet was tumbling when it struck his head. Perhaps it hit sideways.

So, unless that’s the case, I’d say the shot came from the rear.

Not sure about early 60's milsurp but, IIRC, there was a guy that called himself "The Garand Man" that sold Garands from magazine adds back in the 70's or 80's and they were $700ish at the time.