I'll go to the other there.  S&W has always been hit and miss on their auto pistols, be it reliability or durability.  Nothing in the current product line has changed my mind on this.

My decision to "green light" or "red light" a purchase of S&W's new E-Series 1911 will have the outcome of this thread heavily factored into it. If their response to your 2nd return is another failure, I will simply throw a couple extra hundred bucks into the fund and get another Les Baer - if a choker escaped his shop, which is very rare, he and his team would have made goddamn SURE that the gun ran flawlessly after its return.

Hell, you've sadly had to burn through quite a bit of expensive ammo in this ordeal, only to be met with disappointment.....twice. That is unacceptable.

Again, I'm holding off my purchase until I hear how your gun turns out.

Gamers guns have nothing in common with my 1911's. I run adequately powered ammo in mine for proper functioning, not powder puff loads to try and meet some power factor.

As far as the S&W goes, It's hard to say what the problem is. My first reaction to seeing this thread was the extractor and how you can't really adjust it on an EE gun. Maybe it's not the problem here, but it seems every manufacturer that came out with them (exept for Sig) has had problems with them.

Hope they get you running.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

+1

Major power factor ammo isn't what I'd call power-puff.  You're talking about a 230 grain bullet at about 720 FPS; most guys load to about 750 to ensure they meet the floor.  

As to the OP's S&W, it's looking like S&W was trying to follow the Kimber model: sell a $700 gun with an extra $500 worth of milling machine doodles on it.  It's becoming clear that  the extra cost apparently wasn't spent on hand fitting for reliability.

True that, I've already thought about that myself.

Frankly; between the cost of range time and $40.00 per box duty ammunition I burned through the pistol simply to test it, I am so close to Les

Baer territory that it isn't even funny.

I've been a loyal Smith and Wesson customer since the early 1970s and bought 5 of their firearms over the last 2 1/2 years and I can honestly

say that I bought the pistol, not because is was several hundred bucks less than the Baer, but because I believed in Smith and Wesson's initial

quality and the lengths that their customer service department would go to make things right in the event they shipped me a turd.

Now I suppose I'm going to find out if their reputation is actually deserved, or just another false internet rumor.

I sent  a respectfully written, non emotional,  and highly detailed letter along with a dozen pictures demonstrating how the gun has been choking since I got it back from them, to the president of Smith and Wesson Firearms.

I'm curious as to what the response to that letter will be, and who it will be from.  

Well, got glued to the computer reading this entire thread. I've recently been looking to purchase my first 1911, and like mentioned by someone before, have been looking at either S&W or Ruger. I already own 2 S&W pistols, and both have run like I expect guns to run. OP, like you said, anything mechanical can fail, but how they handle the failure is what makes the company. I'll be following this thread, because if they don't make this right for you, it might make my 1911 purchase decision for me. Best of luck to you man - I'll be the 213th person to say it's a beautiful rig, and I hope it ends up running as well as it looks.

Again, when it comes to the 1911 you can't look at things this way.
It doesn't matter who it is, these things can happen to any make of 1911.

I have probably the biggest horror story when it comes to kimber products, it's such a bad story you wouldn't even believe me.
And yet there are people with Kimbers that run fine.

If you like a 1911, all you can do is pull out your wallet and take the plunge and hope for the best cause you're not going to get any reliable information just based off of one bad 1911 cause they all make bad ones.

Quoted for absolute truth. If learning anything from this incidence I would wait another year of two for S&W to get rid of their teething issues before I bought one of the E series in particular though. Just like I am for the Gen 4 Glock.

Nonsense.

When a buyer lays out his or her  money for an expensive new pistol, especially a highly promoted product from a supposedly reputable

manufacturer with a reputation for customer service, that buyer has the expectation of receiving a well built, functional pistol be it a plastic gun, or

a 1911.


In fact, when the buying decision is made based on the reputation of the manufacturer, it is a reasonable expectation that even a low end pistol

from that manufacturer should be properly made and functional.


In the event that a turd passes through the company's quality control; it is expected that a company with a reputation for customer service should

make things right.


The buyer is not expected to figure that "oh well, it's a 1911" and even though I spent $1200.00 on it it's a 1911 so the manufacturer gets a pass

on quality.


Every prospective buyer needs to know how the manufacturer handles the problem in the event that they ship a turd to one of their customers

because it can happen to any customer.


When someone buys a Taurus product it is reasonable to expect Taurus quality and Taurus's level of customer service; both of which come with  

low expectations in knowledgable consumers.


When someone buys a $1200.00 pistol from Smith and Wesson, the expectation of both initial quality and customer service and support in the

event the pistol proves to be a turd, is much higher.


The manner in which Smith and Wesson stands behind, or does not stand behind,  one of their firearms when it proves to be defective is of

importance to everyone in the market for a pistol.


Whether it be a 1911 or otherwise.


We aren't  talking about  Kimber, Raven,  or High-Point; we are discussing whether Smith and Wesson will stand behind a $1200.00 gun which

has been a total lemon and whether their customer service is willing and/or able to deliver a working pistol to their customers.


Many members have indicated great interest in this thread as well as to it's outcome both publicly and via IMs as to how it will affect their own

buying decisions, and I personally have a lot at stake in this matter.


Please don't shit in my thread.

Thank you.      
   

Your S&W reminds me of a new Series 70 Colt Gold Cup that I bought 25 or 30 years ago.  It made a total of 3 trips back to Colt and never would make it through a single mag of factory ball ammo without at least one failure to feed.  The gun became a running joke at the store where I bought it.  Finally, feeling sorry for me, the gun store owner refunded my money, something I think few gun store owners would do today.

I've had nothing but good luck with the 3rd gen S&W autos.  Owned quite a few of them over the years, still have 4.  Many, many rounds down the pipe without even a spring change.  They're one of the few pistols I'll buy without inspecting it in person.

I hate to say it, but he has a point. While there should be an expectation, I don't think any knowledgeable buyer should be shocked having out-of-the box issues with any production 1911 these days. It happens even with those costing twice what yours did.

I've been saying for quite a while that any manufacturer can have the occasional turd slip through their initial quality control and end up in a customer's hands.

But it is how the company eventually resolves the occassional problem with their product   to the customer's satisfaction that is of primary importance.

Mistakes are made; neither machines nor  the people who make them are perfect, but a truly reputable company will ultimately make things right and buying decisions should be based on how a company makes things right when things initially go wrong.

I'm still expecting that Smith and Wesson will do right by me and resolve this matter to my satisfaction.

Why?
The 1911 has been around for a long time. CNC equipment can now easily hold +/- 0.001 or better. Recoil springs are more consistently made, etc. 3D CAD allows for all kinds of analysis including simulating recoil forces and motion. The exact opposite should be true!

Curiously - I'm at Tussy Custom with my dad picking up his $3000 1911 and John (pistol smith) has a Rock Island GI model on his hip. Humm...

Maybe we have strayed too from the original GI design….

The RIA Gi models have a huge fan following...not surprised to see a 'smith with one. It will be my next 1911 purchase.

Thanks,

believe it or not; I'm still expecting Smith and Wesson to do the right thing and resolve this matter to my satisfaction.

I'll certainly make the outcome known either way.


Now some gun porn to help pass the time while I wait........................................................

To me ifyour going the 1911 route, you should go all in with a full custom gun, or only look at the semi-custom makers such as Baer, Wilson, Nighthawk,Brown. Because that is their specialty, less chance of having serious issues, especially if the gun has been sent in for issues once already.

Hope it works out.

Unfortunately (for S&W), I have to agree with you there.  I like their stuff, but somehow I end up never owning it (or at least not for long)...

Tagged for outcome.  

OP, don't think the Smith & Wesson company that earned your loyalty in the 70s still exists.  I've met a number of Police Officers that say their issued S&Ws are jam-o-matics as well.  This is why I don't buy their firearms.  You're right though.  A $1200 pistol should go bang everytime you pull the trigger.  Shouldn't have any worry about that.  Now, I'm afraid you will always have that concern everytime you pick up that weapon.

Hope it all works out for you.  That is a good looking 1911 and would turn my head if I saw it in my local funstore.

I would like to know what departments were issued S&W handguns...

You may be surprised to find just how many PD's have switched to S&W.  Detroit PD did not long ago and after shooting the M&P 40 I can understand why.  S&W had a list of PD's on their website, but I can't find it again.

The North Carolina Dept. of Corrections uses the M&P 40.


S&W has quality problems.  SIG has quality problems.  Taurus has quality problems.  Kimber has quality problems.  Ruger has quality problems. Etc, Etc, Etc, ..........


Makes me scared to purchase any new handgun.


Vulcan94

A TON of departments issue M&Ps. It's easily the most successful new handgun design of the past few years in terms of LE acceptance.

Last Officer I spoke to was in Kissimmee Florida.  He also complained about their Bushmasters.  The conversation with him was two months ago.  Note the weapon in question was NOT a 1911.

Page 6 ownage.

Waiting for handgun to return.

I have S&W 1911 stainless 45. I got it used with maybe 3-4 hundred rounds trough it. It have similar hang-ups. I noticed that extractor spring is very hard and there was no movement of the extractor(I had to push it outward from inside the ejection port and push down the end of extractor from outside to move it at all). I pushed the cartridge under the extractor with slide removed and noticed that case was being pushed to the left not only by the extractor tension but also by extractor nose resting on the oblique surface of the case groove. I filled the spring ends coils half way and filled (rounded) the nose too.

Is feeding now everything I feed it. The pin is straight and can sit flushed because inside the slide it sits in the recess and hits nothing when slide moves in the frame.



I noticed on second pic that extractor end protrudes above the slide much more than on my gun(which is flushed with the slide) and cartridge is not being released by the mag lips. I'm using Springfield Colt and S&W mags.

I polished also the oblique lower part of the extractor where case slips under the hook. Sharp point was digging into the brass.

Smith and Wesson has decided to replace the malfunction prone railed E Series 1911 TA, which I purchased on March 19th,  and unfortunately,  had to send back to them twice, that is the subject of this thread.

I don't know when the replacement pistol will be shipped.

I'm still waiting for the customer service representative who was directed to effect the replacement of the pistol to get back to me to answer my request for that information so that I can inform my FFL that it is enroute to him.

When I actually do receive the replacement pistol from Smith and Wesson I'll run some ammo through it and produce an unbiased range report.

Good on S&W for manning up to the problem.

I hope that the new pistol works to your satisfaction.

Progression in motion, we'll be awaiting the results.

Very glad to hear this. I think that's the right thing for S&W to do, considering the problems with the original. Hope your new 1911 works flawlessly.

ETA - I love the way that gun looks! Just had to say that again

Last I heard Kissimmee PD used Sigs.

OP: good to heard S&W is replacing your gun, hope the new one works better.

I have been following this thread and even posted a couple of times in it. I'm happy for you to get a new pistol. The odds of you getting two jammomatics from S&W are slim pickings. Their decision to totally replace the pistol with a new one is a solid decision upon their part and is definitive of their customer service. Rather than keep playing the shipping game and toying with your emotions with a pistol that you would never fully trust anyways now they are doing the classy action and giving you a new pistol. I have seen other companies that would have kept requesting you to ship the pistol back and forth a half a dozen times..... on your dime mind you, before telling the customer to shove it. Not so with companies like S&W. Thats why I continue to do business with them and will not hesitate to buy any of their products. Good for you A-F. I am excited for you and am looking forward to the range report of your new pistol and some pictures.

Good to hear.  Looking forward to the RR.

I just received the replacement E Series 1911 TA that Smith and Wesson shipped to me via my FFL, and although having  just received it and unable to post a range report yet; I thought that some gratuitous gun porn is in order.

Good luck! I've been following your thread, I hope you have finally resolved this.

Great news. I'm really impressed that they replaced it on the second return - as noted above, mine's been back four times.

I hope it works as it should.

Oh, and gun pr0n is always a good thing.

Thats one good looking gun.  pop in a mag and open the back door and pop off a few rounds to see if it works. we won't tell. LOL

Hopefully this one works

FWIW, Hilton Yam seems to think pretty highly of the E-Series. I bought an SW1911 within months of them coming to market and ran the hell out of it without a single failure. Granted, I've never had any problems with my Colts either, but the S&W external extractor is legit. The E-Series does away with the Firing Pin Safety too.

The Tampa Police Department issues M&P40 and M&P40c pistols.



 

Anxiously awaiting a range report on the new one.

Good deal.  

As I mentioned in an earlier post, replacing the pistol was the only option acceptable to me.    I'm glad S&W did the right thing.  

Looking forward to a range report.

I hope they tested this one before sending it to you.  You've earned one that runs right after what you've been through.  And I don't even want to read the thread about the new one jamming too.

Me too me too!!!

Pretty much my experience as well.  A friend bought the 4.25" version and we ran it for 500 rounds over two days without an issue.

Maybe they have a few tolerance bugs to work out...

A-F, I hope you get some spare time to enjoy and check out the reliability of that beautiful new E series. I'm sure you will post the results, good or bad when you make it to the range. We are all eager to see how it turns out. Good luck my friend. I have a feeling S&W tested this one before it left the factory. Lets hope so.

Good for you OP.  That is one nice looking 1911.  I hope this one works.

I just purchased an identical pistol with a 2/2011 manufacturing date.  I "hope" that I don't have similar problems.  And this is not a TAG.