Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like a lot of people on the board are alluding to a huge SHTF event that will occur soon.  They aren't implying that a regional area will be affected by a natural disaster, rather a national government breakdown caused by some kind popular uprising, terrorist/foreign attack, or some unnamed catalyst that will cause a mass societal breakdown.

Am I missing something here?  I just don't see it happening.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great idea to be prepared - my wife and I try to be prepared for any eventuality, including a huge SHTF.  We have stored food that can be prepared and eaten without fuel/electric power, water, etc, and the means to protect ourselves.

But when I see a thread post in which the poster speaks with a surety that very soon societal collapse is going to occur...  well forgive me, but is there something I don't know?  

I know that regions can collapse into Anarchy after watching the chaos of NOLA in the aftermath of Katrina, but an entire nation separated by massive geological barriers (mountains, deserts, etc.)?  Are we expecting something along the lines of Jericho, or has the USA seen it's day in the sun and we're expecting mass revolt?

I'm just curious - I don't want to piss on anyone's Red Dawn fantasy or Jericho day dreams, I know I think about it from time to time

If the government conducted door to door gun seizures, that would lead to a national SHTF.

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

OBL and his minions have made it clear what they hope to accomplish on U.S. soil. At least 5-7 nukes in major cities. Do they actually have that capability? Who knows. Some say no, and some say yes. It's clear that the .gov hasn't done a lot to prevent it (open borders for one). I'm in no position to know, and neither is anyone here. Couple that with hints about terror attacks happening soon, that have been dropped by national figures and former national figures.

Now I assume the worst and prepare for it. IF those plans to nuke 5-7 major U.S. cities actually occur. Then you have that "Jericho day dream" that you were referring to. More like a nightmare. I want to be frolicking with my grandkids at the waterslide in 20 years. NOT [barely] living in some post-apocalyptic world.

Don't think that a shut-down of several major U.S. cities would stop the grid dead? I do. Dead. I think people would panic, stay home, and start the house of cards crashing dead. And none of that takes into account additional attacks that some think would happen after the catalyst of "the American Hiroshima". 9/11 was just a mosquito bite when compared to such a scenario. And that shook us badly. Things won't be the same if this happens. They will descend into chaos and go from there. I realize that my pronosis of the future is dismal. But I have little faith in the masses of sheep to keep it together through something this big. They don't have a clue about dealing with such chaos. Think NOLA on a national scale. Who's gonna parachute in and save the day for something on that scale?

IBTZ


(in before the zombies...)

I'm with you. My primary planning is for financial,  followed by health, and finally weather related SHTF.  However, I think the only difference in the weather planning vs. the long term breakdown is time frame. I expect the utilities to be back, the roads cleared, and police in control in two weeks.  Although, I am starting on longer term planning for oops I have guests so more food, etc.

We just went through a flood situation in Illinois and  the attitude of some in this article upsets me...  http://dailyherald.com/story/?id=25585&src=368

RR

9/11 shut down all civilian/general/commercial aviation in the US.

If you weren't at home and didn't have a car, it was SHTF.

Quoted: . . We just went through a flood situation in Illinois and  the attitude of some in this article upsets me...  'We can't keep living like this' . .

The people mentioned in the above news story would be truly hurting if there was a national ShtF event.  Here they just lost power for a few days. and they are whining as though it was the end of the world.  These people would never survive the German Blitzkrieg over London during WWII etc.

Quoted: 9/11 shut down all civilian/general/commercial aviation in the US. If you weren't at home and didn't have a car, it was SHTF.

This is true.  There was chaos here, and I remember our Police dept deployed their swat team to the train station because of fear terrorists would flee Boston to Providence.  The sheep were truly out in rare form.

Quoted: Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like a lot of people on the board are alluding to a huge SHTF event that will occur soon.  They aren't implying that a regional area will be affected by a natural disaster, rather a national government breakdown caused by some kind popular uprising, terrorist/foreign attack, or some unnamed catalyst that will cause a mass societal breakdown. Am I missing something here?  I just don't see it happening. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great idea to be prepared - my wife and I try to be prepared for any eventuality, including a huge SHTF.  We have stored food that can be prepared and eaten without fuel/electric power, water, etc, and the means to protect ourselves. But when I see a thread post in which the poster speaks with a surety that very soon societal collapse is going to occur...  well forgive me, but is there something I don't know?   I know that regions can collapse into Anarchy after watching the chaos of NOLA in the aftermath of Katrina, but an entire nation separated by massive geological barriers (mountains, deserts, etc.)?  Are we expecting something along the lines of Jericho, or has the USA seen it's day in the sun and we're expecting mass revolt? I'm just curious - I don't want to piss on anyone's Red Dawn fantasy or Jericho day dreams, I know I think about it from time to time

A lot of ARFCOMMERS have gone thru SHTF scenarios. My example, during Wilma Jeb Bush told everyone fill up your tanks and get about 3 days supply of food(BTW for me that meant 2 weeks of food). Now where I live its not exactly the ghetto, brand new cars, well dressed people, etc. Then Wilma hits, no power, which means no gas and no food. In just 3 days fistfights, tempers flaring in long lines, road rage. People screaming in various languages on the TV. Fine, it was just 3 days but imagine where power is not restored and these sheeple are not prepared and cannot feed themselves or their children if the SHTF keeps going. I can envision armed groups stealing to survive.

Knowing what OBL and others hope to see happen and seeing that they are committed to it (unfortunately it seems more than we are to stopping it), I'm preparing for the worst case scenario. Like Dubya says, "We have to be right 100% of the time. They only have to be right once.". I think as a society or grip on civility is much more fragile than what we like to believe.

Quoted: Knowing what OBL and others hope to see happen and seeing that they are committed to it (unfortunately it seems more than we are to stopping it), I'm preparing for the worst case scenario. Like Dubya says, "We have to be right 100% of the time. They only have to be right once.". I think as a society or grip on civility is much more fragile than what we like to believe.

+1

It boggles my mind that people still think you're paranoid if you believe that there will be major terror attacks on U.S. soil. Even the .gov is admitting that it's not a question of "if" but "WHEN". And some people flick that away like a bug and say that it's just the .gov's conspiracy to take more of our rights away. Who's wearing more tinfoil here?

I am preparing for a mass migration being thwarted by the USCG or the Navy and the violence that will occur at sea and when the protests begin here when that POS Fidel dies. lose lose situation for English speaking Miami

Cuz it's sexy. Obviously the smaller the SHTF scenarios are, more likely they are to occur, but let's be honest. How fun is it to go on the internet and say "I paid off my house, I have 12 months worth of utility bills and grocer money in the bank! I'm ready for the layoff! Har!" "I have a pair of comfortable shoes in my trunk in case my car breaks down, and I need to walk!"

BORING.

Bring the disasters, food shortages, marauders, zombies, foreign armies, fuel and ammo hoarding... NOW it's interesting again. Even if the S never HTF, you're being productive and having fun. Plus if you're ready for the "big one", you should be able to handle the small ones.

Quoted: Cuz it's sexy. Obviously the smaller the SHTF scenarios are, more likely they are to occur, but let's be honest. How fun is it to go on the internet and say "I paid off my house, I have 12 months worth of utility bills and grocer money in the bank! I'm ready for the layoff! Har!" "I have a pair of comfortable shoes in my trunk in case my car breaks down, and I need to walk!" BORING. Bring the disasters, food shortages, marauders, zombies, foreign armies, fuel and ammo hoarding... NOW it's interesting again. Even if the S never HTF, you're being productive and having fun. Plus if you're ready for the "big one", you should be able to handle the small ones.

I think I can handle the small ones, its the big ones that are really gonna test my mettle.

Quoted: Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. OBL and his minions have made it clear what they hope to accomplish on U.S. soil. At least 5-7 nukes in major cities. Do they actually have that capability? Who knows. Some say no, and some say yes. It's clear that the .gov hasn't done a lot to prevent it (open borders for one). I'm in no position to know, and neither is anyone here. Couple that with hints about terror attacks happening soon, that have been dropped by national figures and former national figures. Now I assume the worst and prepare for it. IF those plans to nuke 5-7 major U.S. cities actually occur. Then you have that "Jericho day dream" that you were referring to. More like a nightmare. I want to be frolicking with my grandkids at the waterslide in 20 years. NOT [barely] living in some post-apocalyptic world. Don't think that a shut-down of several major U.S. cities would stop the grid dead? I do. Dead. I think people would panic, stay home, and start the house of cards crashing dead. And none of that takes into account additional attacks that some think would happen after the catalyst of "the American Hiroshima". 9/11 was just a mosquito bite when compared to such a scenario. And that shook us badly. Things won't be the same if this happens. They will descend into chaos and go from there. I realize that my pronosis of the future is dismal. But I have little faith in the masses of sheep to keep it together through something this big. They don't have a clue about dealing with such chaos. Think NOLA on a national scale. Who's gonna parachute in and save the day for something on that scale?

I agree.  
The sheep would go nuts, see how bad they were during hurricane Katrina.
On the other hand we also saw the best in people too.
Granted, Katrina was a single area, but if 3 or more non related geographical areas were hit at the same time,  I think we would have major problems, US wide.

Think about it,............ L.A. , Houston, and Seattle all take nuclear hits, AND, despite various levels of radiation
or various rates of death thereafter, just where are those people who did not die going to go ?  
Because you know they won't stay anywhere near those towns.
How many of you in states not affiliated to Lousiana saw and now where there are Katrina refugees still to this day ?

That was one town of 500,000. and we all saw what problems it caused.
With L.A., Seattle, and Houston were talking about upwards of 50 millon people, ten times the amount caused by Katrina.  

Again, just who is going to help all those people.

Not Uncle Sam, I assure you.

AND, that is just 3 major cities, if Al Qaeda really does have nukes and they do 7 major cities,
I believe it would cause a major meltdown of our infrastructure, both physically and financially.

Our people should rely more on themselves than our government.

Just my .2 cents


   

Quoted: I think I can handle the small ones, its the big ones that are really gonna test my mettle.

Werd.

WTH would be the point of discussing small, every-day SHTF scenarios here. Anyone who is here at SF is capable of handling those. A plan and a 72-hour kit will take care of most of those. It's the larger scenarios that require discussion, input, careful planning, and long-term commitment to preps.

snort...

My plan is to whack everybody I come in contact with, take what I need of their shit,  then move on.

Quoted: snort... My plan is to whack everybody I come in contact with, take what I need of their shit,  then move on.

C'mon man... I assume that you're saying that tongue-in-cheek. You've been around here long enough to know that such statements are retarded and no "survival" plan at all. Defense is THE reason that survivalists invest in weapons in the first place. Those who do it for offense to take what they need have no real interest in preparedness an won't live long anyways.

You are mostly wrong. Lately there has been a lot of talk about an impending financial meltdown, but that is about it.

There probably are posters here who plan for and even hope for a National teotwawki event, but most people are more rational than that.

a full scale nuclear war or world wide epidemic is always a distant possibility, but most people are smart enough to plan for the more common events first.  

There will always be those people who feel that safety can only be achieved while sitting on 5 crates of assorted mil surp calibers, bunkered down between walls piled high with strategically placed collections of tactically mil spec gear.    


Arfcom is 20% educational, and 80% entertainment.  Don't expect it to be something it can never be.  Don't fix it if it ain't broke.

Quoted: You are mostly wrong. Lately there has been a lot of talk about an impending financial meltdown, but that is about it. There probably are posters here who plan for and even hope for a National teotwawki event, but most people are more rational than that. a full scale nuclear war or world wide epidemic is always a distant possibility, but most people are smart enough to plan for the more common events first.   There will always be those people who feel that safety can only be achieved while sitting on 5 crates of assorted mil surp calibers, bunkered down between walls piled high with strategically placed collections of tactically mil spec gear.     Arfcom is 20% educational, and 80% entertainment.  Don't expect it to be something it can never be.  Don't fix it if it ain't broke.

Quoted: Quoted: snort... My plan is to whack everybody I come in contact with, take what I need of their shit,  then move on. C'mon man... I assume that you're saying that tongue-in-cheek. You've been around here long enough to know that such statements are retarded and no "survival" plan at all. Defense is THE reason that survivalists invest in weapons in the first place. Those who do it for offense to take what they need have no real interest in preparedness an won't live long anyways.

O21 is not so far off the mark, hunger and thirst after say 3-4 days will bring out the best and the worst in men.

Think about how fragile our infrastuctor has become, especially the electrical grid. Imagine small pox being released in 30 major US cities, or a highly contagious strain of bird flu. Katrina was a huge eye opener for me, showed me just how fragile our civilization is. Not if but when the shtf, either locally or nationally, you are either going to be prepared or led off to the superdome. I aint going to the superdome.

Nation-wide effects would take something uncommonly big.  Financial talk radio has alluded to billions of dollars equivalent buying of "put" options. These are extreme wagers requiring that the various European and US stock markets lose as much as 1/2 their respective values before Sept. 21.  I talked to my financial advisor and the confirmed that the unique "puts" exist, just like before 9/11, only bigger, and have grown recently.  A reversal of this magnitude would stagger the whole US economy, close many banks and cancel out many types of funds, including local government.  The "puts" allegedly started being bought by Middle Eastern interests including Israeli. I have no more idea why September is the date.

I think you're right - it's fun to talk about TEOTWAWKI, glossing over the horrible things that would occur in such a scenario.

I can easily see an earthquake hitting my area.  My brother is in Ica, Peru, he's seeing the looting and chaos first hand.

I'm just curious about everyone who alludes to the collapse of the nation...

Quoted: Cuz it's sexy. Obviously the smaller the SHTF scenarios are, more likely they are to occur, but let's be honest. How fun is it to go on the internet and say "I paid off my house, I have 12 months worth of utility bills and grocer money in the bank! I'm ready for the layoff! Har!" "I have a pair of comfortable shoes in my trunk in case my car breaks down, and I need to walk!" BORING. Bring the disasters, food shortages, marauders, zombies, foreign armies, fuel and ammo hoarding... NOW it's interesting again. Even if the S never HTF, you're being productive and having fun. Plus if you're ready for the "big one", you should be able to handle the small ones.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: snort... My plan is to whack everybody I come in contact with, take what I need of their shit,  then move on. C'mon man... I assume that you're saying that tongue-in-cheek. You've been around here long enough to know that such statements are retarded and no "survival" plan at all. Defense is THE reason that survivalists invest in weapons in the first place. Those who do it for offense to take what they need have no real interest in preparedness an won't live long anyways. O21 is not so far off the mark, hunger and thirst after say 3-4 days will bring out the best and the worst in men.

while the 3-4 days with out may cuase folks to go off the "deep" end per say and get desperate........... they will eventaully pay the price for living that way.....
those that fail to prepare are a threat in my eyes.

Quoted: Bring the disasters, food shortages, marauders, zombies, foreign armies, fuel and ammo hoarding... NOW it's interesting again. Even if the S never HTF, you're being productive and having fun. Plus if you're ready for the "big one", you should be able to handle the small ones.

Yeah, what he said!

Someone at work the other day said if they were shipwrecked on a desert island, they'd want me along, because I seemed like a very prepared guy.    It was a pretty good looking woman who said this, too.    Unfortunately she's married so I don't think she meant it in a fantasy island way.  

Anyhoo, I've noticed people at work who have absolutely no clue how to handle the simplest of emergencies.  We're talking major sheep/herd mentality here.  baa baa someone feeds us, someone takes care of us.  I like being a sheepdog:  Being able to handle a crisis without much apprehension or concern is fun.  

I've seen other coworkers that just about freak out when a thunderstorm comes through.  They're calling their relatives quoting the weather report like it's the apocalypse or something.  Meanwhile the meateaters among us are casually going on about our work and maybe after a thunderclap go "Ooo!  That was a good one!"  

I don't believe the notion of an 'American Hiroshima' is to snickered at or dismissed offhand.  AQ's next foray into the 'belly of the beast' MUST be more spectacular and devastating than 9/11.  Call me paranoid, but I take these people at their word when they say they want to cause the economic destruction of the United States.  How better to accomplish that end than simultaneous detonations of scores of dirty bombs in large cities an/or small nukes in any or all of the seven cities mentioned in the AH plan?

If there were a pandemic of some sort or a series of terrorist attacks that impacted the stock market, many people throughout the country could potentially be impacted.  I honestly fear that UBL or his minions will try a biological or nuclear attack on US soil at some point in the future.  

These scenarios aside, my gear has helped my family with a number of weather related events and that's fine with me as well.

Quoted: I've seen other coworkers that just about freak out when a thunderstorm comes through.  They're calling their relatives quoting the weather report like it's the apocalypse or something.  Meanwhile the meateaters among us are casually going on about our work and maybe after a thunderclap go "Ooo!  That was a good one!"

Hey, I did both those things so many times in the last week or two with the flooding in northern Illinois. Check on the family, and then enjoy the show! Or in a couple cases, scramble to bail them out.... literally.

RR

Consider these links:

Just came out today:

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20466414/site/newsweek/page/0/

Some other interesting news links:

www.financialnews-us.com/?page=ushome&contentid=2448565379&printview=true

www.cnbc.com/id/20461003

www.financialnews-us.com/?page=ushome&contentid=2448565379


Some of the other discussion boards on this subject:

www.tickerforum.org/cgi-ticker/akcs-www?post=4669

www.curevents.com/vb/showthread.php?t=80190

www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php?t=254237



Bigfeet

I think it would be a mistake to assume there won't be a nationwide SHTF in our lifetimes, or even in the next five or ten years.  Mostly because the downside of being wrong is a whole lot worse if you assume it won't happen.

9/11 hit when the USA was in the beginning of a recession. Perfect timing. Only thing that kept the wolf at bay was 0 interest, leading to the real estate boom.

Now we are already in a recession, and picking up steam. Lots of bad economic news is going to hit over the next year, each piece of it doing a little more damage.

PERFECT time to hit the USA. Like the streetfighter who plants a fist in the gut, then a knee to the face as the guy automatically leans forward.

Quoted: Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like a lot of people on the board are alluding to a huge SHTF event that will occur soon.  They aren't implying that a regional area will be affected by a natural disaster, rather a national government breakdown caused by some kind popular uprising, terrorist/foreign attack, or some unnamed catalyst that will cause a mass societal breakdown. Am I missing something here?  I just don't see it happening. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great idea to be prepared - my wife and I try to be prepared for any eventuality, including a huge SHTF.  We have stored food that can be prepared and eaten without fuel/electric power, water, etc, and the means to protect ourselves. But when I see a thread post in which the poster speaks with a surety that very soon societal collapse is going to occur...  well forgive me, but is there something I don't know?   I know that regions can collapse into Anarchy after watching the chaos of NOLA in the aftermath of Katrina, but an entire nation separated by massive geological barriers (mountains, deserts, etc.)?  Are we expecting something along the lines of Jericho, or has the USA seen it's day in the sun and we're expecting mass revolt? I'm just curious - I don't want to piss on anyone's Red Dawn fantasy or Jericho day dreams, I know I think about it from time to time

How many national SHTF events have we had in america since it's inception...

AmRev

War Between the States

Flu pandemic of 1918

the so called "Great depression"  (THere were several OTHER big depressions before this that are not discussed--probably because they didn't lead to huge increases in the size of the government and the country survived, but that wouldn't advance the agenda of the socialists, but, I digress)

WW1 and WW2 could be considered a national SHTF event, since they involved the draft (slavery) and rationing. I have a brick of .22lr my granddady bought at the beginning of WW2 because they knew it would be hard to come by. The ammo still looks like it just came off the production line, FWIW.


I don't know, it seems to me we're LONG overdue one when you look at history.

But, maybe we can just have bread and circus for the rest of time, who knows.


GR

" My name is Sayed Bin Laden. Since assuming operational day to day control over Al Qaeda in 2002, our organization, together with allies at the top echelons of Pasdaran and Iranian Intelligence agencies, here in our safe haven in Lavizan, Iran, have planned and executed successful operations to insert more than 50 of our bayat members across your US Mexican and US Canadian borders.

Roughly half of these freedom fighters have been able to transport or link up with one crate of US manufactured hand grenades, and one gross of battery operated sawzalls each. Thier instructions are to monitor a specific Islamic publication on a daily basis, and on reciept of prearranged code phrases, initiate disparate but pre-coordinated attacks against isolated individual electrical transmission towers, with an operational objective of damaging or destroying the US electrical grid. After each operation, again to be carried out in remote and isolated terrain, they are to melt back into the US civilian infrastructure until the next code signal is given for further attacks.

The other half of our freedom fighters have been equipped with over the counter bolt action sniper rifles and large caches of readily available ammunition. On receipt of their activation codes, they will set up strategically pre-determined sniper positions astride major US interstate highways at morning rush hour, snipe approximately five workbound vehicles each, per instance, then melt back into society in preparation for future attacks.

With luck and Allah's blessing, at least 50% of the US civilian population will be experiencing, within 30 days from commencement of our attacks, weeklong or longer sustained interruptions of both their paychecks and their ability to use the US electrical grid.

I say to those Americans who dismiss our operations as impossible or even unlikely:

Your move....General."





(My name's Jeff, I'm an American and I've been wanting to smash some Muslim terrorist skulls since the Munich Olympics, the above is hypothetical only, but a fair representation, in my opinion, of one of several dozen possible, likely, and even easy scenarios capable of causing widespread disruption in the American infrastructure. Until you have a 100% guaranteed answer to my interpretation of Sayed's wholly fictional "challenge", hope for the best, plan for the worst.

Or don't, and say "hi" to Lootie when he comes a calling.)

I followed the link to the Illinois power outage article....sheesh!  

A generator that fuels the home's sump pump and keeps Kamka's basement clear of water needs gas every two hours.He slips into his car a few times each day and turns on the engine just to feel the cool air conditioning against his skin.....While the residents wait, their fears intensify. One woman has fought sleep for three days because she's panicked the generator running her sump pump will run out of gas. Another man worries about his wife's medicine spoiling inside the refrigerator.....Bob LeMay has spent more than $1,000 on a generator and other survival supplies since Thursday.

the generator needs gas every two hours ??

What the hell is he running?

He slips into his car a few times each day and turns on the engine just to feel the cool air conditioning against his skin???

ever hear of a box fan?

she's panicked the generator running her sump pump will run out of gas ??

panicked?  My gosh, what would she do if something really serious happened...her head explode?

worries about his wife's medicine spoiling?

ummm...a cooler and some ice maybe?

I'm not being smug or anything,  but this is basic simple shit...like camping.  But, I guess a lot of people have never gone camping in their lives.  

Unfortunately,  the identical fenzy happened in St Louis last July with +500,000 customers without power...fist fights, crying, somber quotes like "And these poor people who have lost everything..."  when in reality this "official" was  talking about people losing a couple days worth of groceries

It's been said that any country is three missed meals away from a revolution.

After seeing Katrina, I don't doubt it in the least.

Quoted: (snip) I'm not being smug or anything,  but this is basic simple shit...like camping.  But, I guess a lot of people have never gone camping in their lives.   Unfortunately,  the identical fenzy happened in St Louis last July with +500,000 customers without power...fist fights, crying, somber quotes like "And these poor people who have lost everything..."  when in reality this "official" was  talking about people losing a couple days worth of groceries

That's it exactly, man.  For those of us who have gone backpacking with everything we need in our ruck and on our belt, an intact house with some sort of water and power source is like God's bountiful feast laid out before us.  For the sheeple, having to eat something like (shudder) a pot of beans and rice and some spam over a camp stove is worse than living in a ghetto because it (horrors!) looks so...so....**uncivilized** (extreme sarcasm here).  

I've heard women at the office saying they don't use public restrooms.  I've been trying to fathom that for years.  Most I can figure is they barely eat or drink anything and hold it until they get home.  Or if they absolutely have to they pick some bathroom that meets their picky standards.  Now, I like a clean bathroom as much as anyone but apparently they've got microscopes and cootie sensors maxxed out for what they consider an acceptable toilet to plop their hiney down on.  

With an attitude like that, they are a sitting duck for dehydration if the power goes out and they refuse to drink fluids before they dry out.  No way they could hump their way out on foot in a bugout day, either.  

Can you imagine how a real catastrophe would impact these people?

   * The Sumerians
   * The Hittite Empire
   * Mycenaean Greece
   * The Neo-Assyrian Empire
   * The Indus Valley Civilization
   * The Mauryan and Gupta states
   * Angkor civilisation of the Khmer Empire
   * Han and Tang Dynasty of China
   * Anasazi
   * The Etruscans
   * Western Roman Empire
   * Izapa
   * Maya
   * Munhumutapa Empire
   * Olmec
   * Cahokia
   * Easter Island
   * The Norse colony on Greenland
   * Pitcairn Island
   * Malden Island
   * ancient Egypt
   * ancient Babylonia
   * the ancient Levant
   * classical Greece
   * Eastern Roman Empire (Medieval Greek) of the Byzantines
   * Modern North East Asian civilisations, Hindu and Mughal India
   * Chin, Sung, Mongol and Manchu China
   * The Tokugawa Shogunate of Japan
   * The Aztecs and Incas

Among the list are some of the greatest and most influential societies in all of recorded history.

None of them have survived the test of time.

Quoted: Quoted: Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. OBL and his minions have made it clear what they hope to accomplish on U.S. soil. At least 5-7 nukes in major cities. Do they actually have that capability? Who knows. Some say no, and some say yes. It's clear that the .gov hasn't done a lot to prevent it (open borders for one). I'm in no position to know, and neither is anyone here. Couple that with hints about terror attacks happening soon, that have been dropped by national figures and former national figures. Now I assume the worst and prepare for it. IF those plans to nuke 5-7 major U.S. cities actually occur. Then you have that "Jericho day dream" that you were referring to. More like a nightmare. I want to be frolicking with my grandkids at the waterslide in 20 years. NOT [barely] living in some post-apocalyptic world. Don't think that a shut-down of several major U.S. cities would stop the grid dead? I do. Dead. I think people would panic, stay home, and start the house of cards crashing dead. And none of that takes into account additional attacks that some think would happen after the catalyst of "the American Hiroshima". 9/11 was just a mosquito bite when compared to such a scenario. And that shook us badly. Things won't be the same if this happens. They will descend into chaos and go from there. I realize that my pronosis of the future is dismal. But I have little faith in the masses of sheep to keep it together through something this big. They don't have a clue about dealing with such chaos. Think NOLA on a national scale. Who's gonna parachute in and save the day for something on that scale? I agree.   The sheep would go nuts, see how bad they were during hurricane Katrina. On the other hand we also saw the best in people too. Granted, Katrina was a single area, but if 3 or more non related geographical areas were hit at the same time,  I think we would have major problems, US wide. Think about it,............ L.A. , Houston, and Seattle all take nuclear hits, AND, despite various levels of radiation or various rates of death thereafter, just where are those people who did not die going to go ?   Because you know they won't stay anywhere near those towns. How many of you in states not affiliated to Lousiana saw and now where there are Katrina refugees still to this day ? That was one town of 500,000. and we all saw what problems it caused. With L.A., Seattle, and Houston were talking about upwards of 50 millon people, ten times the amount caused by Katrina.   Again, just who is going to help all those people. Not Uncle Sam, I assure you. AND, that is just 3 major cities, if Al Qaeda really does have nukes and they do 7 major cities, I believe it would cause a major meltdown of our infrastructure, both physically and financially. Our people should rely more on themselves than our government. Just my .2 cents

I think that the posibillty is there, However I am wondering about the EAST COAST. I think the reality of 5 or more is better covering the entire country, What about DC, you'd think that would be a primary goal for OBL. I am not too far from seattle (45mi)and I already have been hoarding preps like mad. The possibilitys of red dawn and the like are very real, but most people here are not as concerned as they are with the most likely senerios of personal SHTF. i personally have 1 years pay saved up and unough preps to last about 1 month. I am always looking for more. but I am prepared for financial first.

Quoted: Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like a lot of people on the board are alluding to a huge SHTF event that will occur soon.   Am I missing something here?  I just don't see it happening.

I haven't been posting anything about a pending SHTF event.

But to say you "just don't see anything happening" is almost a form of denial, because about 50% of the time, there will be no tangible advance warning (at least no warning that is released to the American public.)

Let's make a "no fowl" pact. In the absence of any objective red flags, I promise not to be a "chicken little," and you agree not to be an ostrich, with his head stuck in the sand (or some other dark place.)

ps. It is interesting to see how many posters seem oblivious to any SHTF scenario except islamic terrorism. I guess they think our economy is in great shape, and that Russia and China are America's "good friends."

What happened in New Orleans after Katrina is not representative of could happen because over 90% of the citizens had time to flee and did. If they hadn't gotten out, the supply problems would have really tested the authorities.

I was at a table top scenerio involving a regional flu pandemic this week. After the event, people were talking about citizens preparing for such things. The Red Cross representative said that they had plenty of pamplets and training classes, but the general public was not interested at all. No one wanted any of it. She said their attitude is that someone will take care of them when the time comes!

If AQ pulls off "Operation Night-shade", the citys will come apart. It will be far worse than any thing we have seen up to now. Banks can't tranfer money or check balances, so the BS we have been sold about using check cards will really hit home. No way to buy food or gas. How long do the LEO's try to function when the radios quit working and dispatch fails ala NOLA post Katrina?

RS

Quoted: 9/11 shut down all civilian/general/commercial aviation in the US. If you weren't at home and didn't have a car, it was SHTF.

My definition of SHTF and yours are very different. IMO that was an inconvenience.

Uhm, here in Wa, and I think its nationwide, there is a law going into effect in september (?) that makes it illegal(er?) for companies to employ undocumented (illegal) workers.  There are INCREDIBLY steep fines.

This could lead to the SHTF.

Before you say, wait, youre pro illegal immigration hear me out.

The vast workforce in the agricultural industry is undocumented workers.  Here in Wa we already had problems finding enough workers to harvest crops (cherry and apple orchards wasted/unpicked)

If farmers are not allowed to hire workers, and penalized for hiring undocumented ones as steeply is .gov threatens, there will be major, major jumps in food prices.

there wont be A. the # of people to harvest them, and B. they will be documented, and require more pay. (Yes you enjoy low priced agriculteral goods because farmers take advantage of illegal immigrants and pay ~$4-5/hour.)

Think on that for a little bit.

Quoted: Uhm, here in Wa, and I think its nationwide, there is a law going into effect in september (?) that makes it illegal(er?) for companies to employ undocumented (illegal) workers.  There are INCREDIBLY steep fines. This could lead to the SHTF. Before you say, wait, youre pro illegal immigration hear me out. The vast workforce in the agricultural industry is undocumented workers.  Here in Wa we already had problems finding enough workers to harvest crops (cherry and apple orchards wasted/unpicked) If farmers are not allowed to hire workers, and penalized for hiring undocumented ones as steeply is .gov threatens, there will be major, major jumps in food prices. there wont be A. the # of people to harvest them, and B. they will be documented, and require more pay. (Yes you enjoy low priced agriculteral goods because farmers take advantage of illegal immigrants and pay ~$4-5/hour.) Think on that for a little bit.

****I DID!   And I'm willing to pay!  Get 'em outa here!  The local jail is double capacity with them, who's paying for that?

I'm prepping for an earthquake, everything after that is just a cherry on the end of the world sundae.

If 10% of the people spaz out like NOLA or any other disaster, that is still a lot of people to keep at bay.

this is basic simple shit...like camping. But, I guess a lot of people have never gone camping in their lives.

Not anymore....sheeple go glamping...be sure to watch the video

"We're just not the camping kind of people. We don't pitch tents. We don't cook outdoors. We don't share a bathroom. It's just not going to happen. This is a kid who has never flown anything but first class or stayed anywhere other than a Four Seasons."

You just cant make that shit up


Its not IF but WHEN the way I see it - as a country we are a weak and easy target that would be very easy to 'disrupt'. Once you disrupt the normal ebb and flow of life for more than a couple days the sheep panic and accomplish what a small force never could.

Quoted: this is basic simple shit...like camping. But, I guess a lot of people have never gone camping in their lives. "We're just not the camping kind of people. We don't pitch tents. We don't cook outdoors. We don't share a bathroom. It's just not going to happen. This is a kid who has never flown anything but first class or stayed anywhere other than a Four Seasons." You just cant make that shit up

It is just incredible to me that people are so divorced from life on our planet is like. I mean, have they never given any thought to what life would be like if they whole attorney and private equity partner thing doesn't work out?

I say "fuck 'em." If they are not willing to learn how to take care of themselves rather than pay people to do it for them, they deserve what they get when and if the lights go out.

Stay Safe,
AGreyMan

height=8

Quoted: height=8 Quoted: height=8 this is basic simple shit...like camping. But, I guess a lot of people have never gone camping in their lives. height=8 "We're just not the camping kind of people. We don't pitch tents. We don't cook outdoors. We don't share a bathroom. It's just not going to happen. This is a kid who has never flown anything but first class or stayed anywhere other than a Four Seasons." You just cant make that shit up hat I say "fuck 'em." If they are not willing to learn how to take care of themselves rather than pay people to do it for them, they deserve what they get when and if the lights go out. Stay Safe, AGreyMan I don't know, the kid who was going to stick his fellow campers for $10 s'mores shows some promise.  You'd have to toughen him up a bit first but the basic instinct seems to be there.   I guess the rest of the folks in that article might make good emergency rations ala the "Donnor Party".   J.

there wont be A. the # of people to harvest them, and B. they will be documented, and require more pay. (Yes you enjoy low priced agriculteral goods because farmers take advantage of illegal immigrants and pay ~$4-5/hour.)

I imagine that's similar to how arguments against ending slavery went.

Quoted: Uhm, here in Wa, and I think its nationwide, there is a law going into effect in september (?) that makes it illegal(er?) for companies to employ undocumented (illegal) workers.  There are INCREDIBLY steep fines. This could lead to the SHTF. Before you say, wait, youre pro illegal immigration hear me out. The vast workforce in the agricultural industry is undocumented workers.  Here in Wa we already had problems finding enough workers to harvest crops (cherry and apple orchards wasted/unpicked) If farmers are not allowed to hire workers, and penalized for hiring undocumented ones as steeply is .gov threatens, there will be major, major jumps in food prices. there wont be A. the # of people to harvest them, and B. they will be documented, and require more pay. (Yes you enjoy low priced agriculteral goods because farmers take advantage of illegal immigrants and pay ~$4-5/hour.) Think on that for a little bit.

Yea, your pro illegal. Lets see, stealing from my paycheck every two weeks to pay to incarcerate, pay for medical care, welfare, food stamps, education for anchor kids, verses paying even twice as much for produce at the market, and at the same time preserving my countries sovernty. Yea, I will pay more at the market