User Panel
Posted: 11/1/2017 6:13:44 PM EDT
In the past on important scopes I have paid to have them put in the mount (ADM single piece in my case) The dude uses a torque wrench, a high end level, and a plum bob string. I would like to do my own and be precise like that. What torque wrench? Also what level?
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I use the Borka torque wrench.
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The Wheeler FAT has never failed me and has held up for over 6 years now.
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I use a product from Wheeler - The Fat Wrench.
It is quite portable, so it goes to the range with me every time...... ETA: The Borka looks really nice. |
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I use a Craftsman torque wrench at home and a set of Fix It Sticks in my gear. I use a cheap plastic level to level. Don't need anything expensive. If buying a scope mounted level then look at the LoPro Vortex version for actual shooting. Check it once mounted with a plumb bob or anything that is perfectly vertical.
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http://www.teamblaster.net
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The Fat Wrench here.
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FAT and two small bubble levels. One on scope and one on lower.
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And for a level I honestly just use a really good torpedo level or pocket level. The gunsmith marketed levels are usually garbage. The best in my opinion is the Stabila Pro
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So you are saying God hates these endangered ducks?
No, I am just saying that if God liked ducks they wouldn't be endangered. |
Im just a diy guy. I use this wrench:
Attached File 0-75 in-lb dial wrench. 1/4" drive. I level by setting rifle in a rest and rotating scope to align with a vertical feature in the distance, corner of a house, fence post, power pole, etc. |
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Seekonk. Made in the USA.
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Wheeler Fat Wrench for me as well.
To level/install the scope I put the rifle in a rest. Then put a bubble level on the reciever (Picatinny style attachment). Next, I take the elevation turret cap off and set a generic level directly on the exposed turret. I'll tighten the rings down just enough that they're snug, but still allow for me to rotate the scope. By this time, hopefully my plumb line has stopped swinging From there I just line up the reticle with the plumb line, making small adjustments to the scope as I go. If it all looks good, I'll tourque the rings to whatever they need to be set at. Then one last time checking the levels on the reciever and turret, while the reticle is lined up with the plumb line. I won't claim it's the only way to get it done, but that process has served me well. |
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Wheeler Fat Wrench (digital). I use my iPhone compass app to get scope level with top rail. Less than 1 degree = GTG.
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Free speech is still free. But only if it's PC.
Non Semper Erit Aestas Scars Are Souvenirs You Never Lose. The Past Is Never Far. - John Rzeznik |
NRA - Benefactor Life Member
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+1 for the Wheeler FAT torque wrench.
For "rough" leveling you can use your eyeball or any cheap level on your top turret. For serious leveling of the reticle (the only thing that really needs to be level), I use a plumb line I constructed using a golf ball, a small screw eye, and an 8' piece of white nylon cord. There is a small nail (about 9 feet off the ground) in a branch of a tree across the street where I can hang the plumb line... |
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Thanks guys. I am going to get the FAT and one of the better levels as posted by Dace. Going to shop a bit and hopefully buy from a small business though.
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My level is like this.
https://m.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/levels/6-inch-level-with-magnetic-strip-37588.html Have used it for years and mounted more scopes than I can remember and never an issue. I wouldn't dump a lot of money on a level. |
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http://www.teamblaster.net
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I use the Wheeler Fat Torque Wrench and the Wheeler Pro Reticle leveling kit. Make it very easy to get it all leveled up.
https://www.amazon.com/Wheeler-Professional-Reticle-Leveling-System/dp/B004TAB7ZO/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1510066911&sr=8-9&keywords=wheeler+gunsmith+tools |
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I use the vortex torque driver made by Capri tools I believe (looks identical) a great deal for around $60. I use the stabila level as well.
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"People don't think Cola Warrior be like it is but it do..." - George Washington
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The wheeler fat is what I use
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"Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt. That's the first thing they teach you."
A16442 |
+1 for the Fat Wrench.
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The only scope leveling tool you'll ever need or want to use again. Turns a half hour job with bubble levels into a 5 minute job. |
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If you know what you are doing a bubble level is a 5 min job too.
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http://www.teamblaster.net
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Fat wrench. Got fix it sticks too to try for a steal.
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Originally Posted By Brosome:
www.amazon.com/dp/B00W8AXZ98The only scope leveling tool you'll ever need or want to use again. Turns a half hour job with bubble levels into a 5 minute job. View Quote |
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So you are saying God hates these endangered ducks?
No, I am just saying that if God liked ducks they wouldn't be endangered. |
Wheeler Fat wrench and the Arisaka level tool.
I can have a scope mounted in under 5 minutes. |
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Originally Posted By swingset: Just head on down to your local "Shit Normal People Shouldn't Fuck Around With Supermart". Isle 3, next to the menstruating porcupine. |
The top of a scope turret isn't designed to be perfectly level with the reticle, the bottom of the turret housing is though and if it is making the bottom level with your rail will almost always be more accurate than the bubble. Which is why Nightforce and others recommend mounting from the bottom with shims or feeler gauges also why Spuhr mounts use a similar triangle method to level the scope.
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I've been using a Wheeler Fat Wrench for awhile and its been perfect. No issues mounting a half dozen scopes so far.
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Originally Posted By johnh57:
Im just a diy guy. I use this wrench: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/335829/d16b48e80e6262f17dc30fdfafd797fb-350530.JPG 0-75 in-lb dial wrench. 1/4" drive. I level by setting rifle in a rest and rotating scope to align with a vertical feature in the distance, corner of a house, fence post, power pole, etc. View Quote |
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Originally Posted By Brosome:
www.amazon.com/dp/B00W8AXZ98The only scope leveling tool you'll ever need or want to use again. Turns a half hour job with bubble levels into a 5 minute job. View Quote |
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Another vote for the FAT wrench. It is plenty for me, and works fine. It's a huge upgrade from just cranking on it, which is what I had been doing for years.
ETA: I've been leveling with my iPhone compass. The method makes some assumptions about turret/reticle levelness, and I wouldn't use it for competition or serious use. For general shooting it's worked fine for me so far. |
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+1 for the wheeler fat wrench. it has never failed me.
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+1 for a the Borka.
It seems less than intuitive to use at first. But one you get the hang of it, you will never again want to break out a torque and fumble around with that. And it comes in a little case with all the components/accessories neatly secured. That alone was enough for me. It conveniently stores in the range bag and nothing gets left behind or forgotten about when i need it. Love it. |
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I use a small level and an Allen wrench. Level up the gun then level to scope to the gun. Hold the wrench by the short end and tighten evenly. No need for a torque wrench and I've mounted hundreds of scopes and mounts that haven't come loose or dented the scope tube.
From looking at used scopes for sale and removing scopes mounted by others I think most people could benefit from a torque wrench since most scopes show over tightening by dented scope tubes. |
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I plead the 2nd.
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Originally Posted By OlCrow:
I use a small level and an Allen wrench. Level up the gun then level to scope to the gun. Hold the wrench by the short end and tighten evenly. No need for a torque wrench and I've mounted hundreds of scopes and mounts that haven't come loose or dented the scope tube. From looking at used scopes for sale and removing scopes mounted by others I think most people could benefit from a torque wrench since most scopes show over tightening by dented scope tubes. View Quote |
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http://www.teamblaster.net
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Originally Posted By Rob01: That works for scope ring caps as finger tight holding small end is about 15 in/lbs but not so well with rings to base or action screws where a specific torque is recommended and using it allows removing and replacing scope from base or barreled action from stock and replacing to be more precise with little to no shift in POI. A good torque wrench is a good tool to have. View Quote |
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I plead the 2nd.
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Im one of the folks thats needs/prefers them. I use the Wheeler for most all of my firearms. If not the FAT wrench, then Im using a ratchet type.
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A properly and currently calibrated one.
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I have a fat wrench that lives in one of the range bags. As long as you release all the tension on the spring after you use it, so that there is no tension on it in storage, it will hold it's calibration for as long as you own it.
----- A few thoughts on levels, and scope leveling. There are two schools of thought: 1. The rifle should be level to the horizon and the scope level to the rifle (and horizon), with the vertical crosshair vertical (as indicated by be parallel to a plumb line. That leaves the center of the optical axis and line of sight directly over the center of the bore, and eliminates any slight windage errors due to the sight being slightly offset from the bore. 2. The rifle should be at whatever angle the shooter holds it naturally, as that will be more consistent. The scope is then "leveled" by ensuring that the vertical cross hair is parallel to a plumb line. This group feels that any slight windage error is more than compensated for by easier and more consistent hold of the rifle. Both schools have their merits, and while I'm in school of thought number one, I recognize that the less than natural hold makes a level much more important to avoid a canting error. ----- The small gunsmith levels are badly overpriced for that they are. I prefer to use a small level, but they generally won't fit across a flat on the receiver with the scope mounted. However I've found that if you use flat piece of bar stock (brass, steel, whatever) across the flat on the receiver you can set the level on it off to one side to allow you to level the rifle and verify it is level while you rotate the scope so the vertical dross hair is vertical (parallel to a plumb line, or a wall that is known to be plumb. You do not normally want to "level" the cross hairs by placing a level across the scope's adjustment turret. They are not always level with the cross hair. If you do use this method you should confirm that the vertical cross hair is in fact vertical with plumb line. ----- Once the scope is 'level", I'll again verify it with a plumb line, while I adjust the scope level installed on the scope. Once I've installed a scope level it tends to stay on the scope for as long as I own it. If the scope gets moved to another rifle, it's still going to be properly oriented to the cross hair. |
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Wow, lot's of posts on this subject. No matter what torque wrench you choose, don't count on it to be accurate unless you have it regularly calibrated. That said, the inaccuracies will be fairly consistent and in the case of scopes it's often more important to have equal pressure without applying so much pressure that you damage the scope. One of the keys to reaching that goal is to lap your scope rings. The concept with lapping is that when the screws are torqued the ring is applying equal pressure on the scope tube through it's entirety. Is it critical? If you paid a lot for your scope then I personally think it is.
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You have to watch what the ring manufacturer recommends too. Some with hard anodizing recommend not to lap the rings. If you are using quality rings then most issues with ring misalignment comes from the base to action fit. Bedding the base and fixing the issue is a better option than lapping rings to make them fit a problem base as if you take that scope off the rifle and try to put it on another then you will send over the misalignment if the other scope has a properly installed and fit base. But this is a different subject than wrenches.
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http://www.teamblaster.net
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Originally Posted By Rob01:
You have to watch what the ring manufacturer recommends too. Some with hard anodizing recommend not to lap the rings. If you are using quality rings then most issues with ring misalignment comes from the base to action fit. Bedding the base and fixing the issue is a better option than lapping rings to make them fit a problem base as if you take that scope off the rifle and try to put it on another then you will send over the misalignment if the other scope has a properly installed and fit base. But this is a different subject than wrenches. View Quote |
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I have been using the Fix It Sticks and they have a long life for calibration. Easy to use in the field and pop in a pack which is where I keep them for my matches.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/precision-rifles/Fix-It-Sticks-Torque-Limiter-kit-review/9-6024/ |
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http://www.teamblaster.net
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Originally Posted By Rob01:
I have been using the Fix It Sticks and they have a long life for calibration. Easy to use in the field and pop in a pack which is where I keep them for my matches. https://www.ar15.com/forums/precision-rifles/Fix-It-Sticks-Torque-Limiter-kit-review/9-6024/ View Quote |
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I bought one of the Anschutz torque wrenches a few years ago. It came with several hex key bits. In order to make it a more useful tool, I bought an adapter that fits in the torque wrench and accepts conventional 1/4" square drive sockets.
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"Forgive me if I don't shake hands."
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I use a fat wrench for everything that uses inch pounds.
It's been great. Just make sure not to store it with it torqued up. |
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So that others may live......
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