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Posted: 12/28/2014 4:23:04 AM EDT
PDW meant for rear-echelon personnel. These came in as parts kits a while ago, anyone do a build? Have any of you vets see one in Afghanistan or Iraq? |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 4:27:14 AM EDT
[#1]
Thats a weird lookin gun. Bet its fun in full auto!!!
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Posted: 12/28/2014 4:29:05 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thats a weird lookin gun. Bet its fun in full auto!!! Looks like it would be east to blow the fingers off your support hand. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 4:32:51 AM EDT
[#3]
Ah, yes, the gun of Rambo...3's bad guy
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Posted: 12/28/2014 4:34:47 AM EDT
[#4]
Looks like it has a slide, which could cause some owies.
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Posted: 12/28/2014 4:38:36 AM EDT
[#5]
I have never seen that monstrosity before. If I had, I would wrestle it to the nearest band saw.
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Posted: 12/28/2014 4:44:16 AM EDT
[#6]
It seems like it's only real redeeming feature is illegal here.
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Posted: 12/28/2014 4:47:18 AM EDT
[#7]
Same principle as the HK MP-7, I guess?
Capable of being shoulder-fired, but also fits in a holster. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 4:50:35 AM EDT
[#8]
Also a gun the South Africans took some inspiration from.
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Posted: 12/28/2014 4:58:19 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
<a href="http://s326.photobucket.com/user/phb1gt/media/450px-Submachine_gun_wz63_zps96bea479.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k407/phb1gt/450px-Submachine_gun_wz63_zps96bea479.jpg</a> <a href="http://s326.photobucket.com/user/phb1gt/media/pm63_2_zps177bfbb8.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k407/phb1gt/pm63_2_zps177bfbb8.jpg</a> PDW meant for rear-echelon personnel. These came in as parts kits a while ago, anyone do a build? Have any of you vets see one in Afghanistan or Iraq? Got to handle a few in Kosovo. Neat little piece. 
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Posted: 12/28/2014 5:07:39 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like it has a slide, which could cause some owies. It does have a slide. Which is odd for an SMG. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 5:30:51 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It does have a slide. Which is odd for an SMG. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Looks like it has a slide, which could cause some owies. It does have a slide. Which is odd for an SMG. Well I imagine it is open bolt, so you should know where the slide is gonna come back |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 5:50:15 AM EDT
[#12]
Dat powder burn
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Posted: 12/28/2014 7:33:12 AM EDT
[#13]
The PM-63 is coming to the US in 2015 in the form of a semi pistol, imported by IO, made by Pioneer arms of Poland out of de milled parts.
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Posted: 12/28/2014 8:51:35 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The PM-63 is coming to the US in 2015 in the form of a semi pistol, imported by IO, made by Pioneer arms of Poland out of de milled parts. Want. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 9:17:07 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also a gun the South Africans took some inspiration from. http://www.imfdb.org/images/d/de/KOMMANDO-LDP_RHUZI.jpg No, that one is based on the CZ-25. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 9:24:50 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The PM-63 is coming to the US in 2015 in the form of a semi pistol, imported by IO, made by Pioneer arms of Poland out of de milled parts. cool, another one to add to my 'i want it but i can't quite explain why' semi sub gun list damn I hope I get that raise next month |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 10:24:33 AM EDT
[#17]
Only one I ever saw was being carried by a Polish officer in Bosnia in 2004. The Poles were in major "transition" mode then... You'd see them with AKs, M16s, M9s... Sometimes Western and ComBloc gear even mixed in the same unit.
 . Guess you go fight with what you got. I'm sure they're more squared away now, the troops themselves were some big tough motherfuckers.
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Posted: 12/28/2014 10:34:24 AM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 12/28/2014 10:42:40 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryThat would be a Finnish Jati Matic SMG ......Stallone carried one in Cobra...... |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 10:47:37 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The PM-63 is coming to the US in 2015 in the form of a semi pistol, imported by IO, made by Pioneer arms of Poland out of de milled parts. I'm definitely getting one as long as it isn't stupid expensive. Do you know if it's in 9mm Luger or 9mm MAK? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 10:56:56 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, that one is based on the CZ-25. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Also a gun the South Africans took some inspiration from. http://www.imfdb.org/images/d/de/KOMMANDO-LDP_RHUZI.jpg No, that one is based on the CZ-25. Tons of CZ25s still being carried in Mexico. The street cops in Mexico City usually patrol in pairs where one of the officers carry one of those. I assume they came from Cuba. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 12:51:25 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm definitely getting one as long as it isn't stupid expensive. Do you know if it's in 9mm Luger or 9mm MAK? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The PM-63 is coming to the US in 2015 in the form of a semi pistol, imported by IO, made by Pioneer arms of Poland out of de milled parts. I'm definitely getting one as long as it isn't stupid expensive. Do you know if it's in 9mm Luger or 9mm MAK? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile http://www.pioneer-pac.com/pm63-c,prp1,5,2 |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 6:03:17 PM EDT
[#23]
First place I ever saw one. Black Ops. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 6:39:58 PM EDT
[#24]
Definitely looks Polish.
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Posted: 12/29/2014 7:25:51 AM EDT
[#25]
PM-63 RAK is very interesting design. Similarities to HK MP7 are no accidental - it was designed for same role and use. It was designed as holster carry PDW weapon for rear echelons troops, vehicle crews or heavy weapons crews but was also used by special forces and law enforcement. Warsaw Pact came to this idea much faster than NATO did (it took over 30 years more for NATO to look for real PDWs). Around same time Russian APS and Czechoslovak vz. 61 Scorpion were designed for same purpose. Production ended in 1974. Finally it was replaced by more "classic" design sub-machine gun PM-84 Glaberyt. Norinco made a clone under designation Type 82.
PM-63 has a slide and shoots from open slide. This is sometimes confusing to people used to idea that pistols with slide should shot from "closed bolt" (there were even some Hollywood movies that used PM-63 and presented them incorrectly). Interesting, one of a kind, feature is "lyzka" ("spoon") in front part of slide. It has double use. One is sort of compensator, directing gases upward to reduce muzzle flip and to guard front hand against hot gases. Second one (and this is unique) is for one handed charging: PM-63 was carried in holster in slide forward manner, to charge it user need to pull back on slide or.... rest tip of "spoon" against some hard surface and push forward on pistol grip. There is no fire mode selector - trigger is two stage, with first stage allowing shots in semi-auto, while pulling trigger further back to stage 2 makes it shoot in full auto. Manual safety works by catching slide in either forward, back or middle (dis-assembly) position. Definitely interesting firearm and very interesting design, especially for it's times and origin. |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 7:55:09 AM EDT
[#26]
Coming to USA next year as a semi auto
http://www.pioneer-pac.com/pm63-c,prp1,5,2
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Posted: 12/29/2014 12:56:04 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Coming to USA next year as a semi autohttp://www.pioneer-pac.com/pm63-c,prp1,5,2 Converted to shoot from closed slide. I may even shoot better that way, but for me this kills authenticity. |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 3:12:10 PM EDT
[#28]
Dziekuje!
<=Honorary Polish Paratrooper, here. 
Quote HistoryQuoted:
PM-63 RAK is very interesting design. Similarities to HK MP7 are no accidental - it was designed for same role and use. It was designed as holster carry PDW weapon for rear echelons troops, vehicle crews or heavy weapons crews but was also used by special forces and law enforcement. Warsaw Pact came to this idea much faster than NATO did (it took over 30 years more for NATO to look for real PDWs). Around same time Russian APS and Czechoslovak vz. 61 Scorpion were designed for same purpose. Production ended in 1974. Finally it was replaced by more "classic" design sub-machine gun PM-84 Glaberyt. Norinco made a clone under designation Type 82. PM-63 has a slide and shoots from open slide. This is sometimes confusing to people used to idea that pistols with slide should shot from "closed bolt" (there were even some Hollywood movies that used PM-63 and presented them incorrectly). Interesting, one of a kind, feature is "lyzka" ("spoon") in front part of slide. It has double use. One is sort of compensator, directing gases upward to reduce muzzle flip and to guard front hand against hot gases. Second one (and this is unique) is for one handed charging: PM-63 was carried in holster in slide forward manner, to charge it user need to pull back on slide or.... rest tip of "spoon" against some hard surface and push forward on pistol grip. There is no fire mode selector - trigger is two stage, with first stage allowing shots in semi-auto, while pulling trigger further back to stage 2 makes it shoot in full auto. Manual safety works by catching slide in either forward, back or middle (dis-assembly) position. Definitely interesting firearm and very interesting design, especially for it's times and origin. |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 4:17:57 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dziekuje! <=Honorary Polish Paratrooper, here. A platoon of them came to run some joint patrols with the NG unit that was stationed at the FOB where I was working in Bosnia back in '04. Lot of "Polish Paratrooper" jokes were floating around... until the troopers actually arrived. I'm 6'3", went about 240 at the time, in decent shape. The smallest guy in the platoon was about my size, they just got bigger from there. 
They also thought they were in heaven itself when they got to the GP medium tent they got to live in, because it actually had a heater.
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Posted: 12/29/2014 4:37:01 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A platoon of them came to run some joint patrols with the NG unit that was stationed at the FOB where I was working in Bosnia back in '04. Lot of "Polish Paratrooper" jokes were floating around... until the troopers actually arrived. I'm 6'3", went about 240 at the time, in decent shape. The smallest guy in the platoon was about my size, they just got bigger from there.
They also thought they were in heaven itself when they got to the GP medium tent they got to live in, because it actually had a heater. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Dziekuje! <=Honorary Polish Paratrooper, here. A platoon of them came to run some joint patrols with the NG unit that was stationed at the FOB where I was working in Bosnia back in '04. Lot of "Polish Paratrooper" jokes were floating around... until the troopers actually arrived. I'm 6'3", went about 240 at the time, in decent shape. The smallest guy in the platoon was about my size, they just got bigger from there.
They also thought they were in heaven itself when they got to the GP medium tent they got to live in, because it actually had a heater. We had the Polish Ukrainian Battalion (POL/UKR) at Bondsteel in Kosovo. Great guys, even though they kept violating General Order Number One 
I met my buddy Pawel jumping in Slovakia. We had a crazy Polish jumpmaster, Andre, who was giving us the basics on the Kadet parachute. I jumped it about a half hour later out of the An-2. Pawel, who is indeed a big boy, and a retired GROM Lieutenant, signed my chit. Saw him later in Thailand and in the Philippines on other ops. GREAT guy, and can keep up with me on the pivo.  Of course, HE doesn't get drunk.
Pawel: |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 6:46:46 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The PM-63 is coming to the US in 2015 in the form of a semi pistol, imported by IO, made by Pioneer arms of Poland out of de milled parts. I'm definitely getting one as long as it isn't stupid expensive. Do you know if it's in 9mm Luger or 9mm MAK? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile http://www.pioneer-pac.com/pm63-c,prp1,5,2 Thank you. I wasn't sure if it came in 9mm Luger as well. I prefer 9mm MAK since I'm sitting on a good pile bought when prices were lower. Open-bolt SMG's are a challenge to convert to semi-auto closed-bolt. It was done very well with the Uzi, so hopefully this turns out well also. I'm very excited about this. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 7:02:46 PM EDT
[#32]
Played with a few.
Neat mechanically. But been told by Poles that spent allot of time behind the trigger that it was a a dangerous POS. |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 7:48:42 AM EDT
[#33]
Than you all for good words on our guys. They are really tough bunch. When I was teen, I spent all my vacations (2 month) living under tent in mountain camp (it was mountaineering camp) led by retired Red Berets (paratroopers) colonel. Biggest compliment from him was that in his whole military career, from private to colonel, he never ever saw anyone so good at faking work and pretending to be busy like me! That was something ;)
And I've seen this guy (at his 60s at the time) lift and shift by some yard big boulder, that 4 guys barely brought in. He claimed, they put it in wrong place. Paratroopers.... |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 8:12:54 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only one I ever saw was being carried by a Polish officer in Bosnia in 2004. The Poles were in major "transition" mode then... You'd see them with AKs, M16s, M9s... Sometimes Western and ComBloc gear even mixed in the same unit. . Guess you go fight with what you got. I'm sure they're more squared away now, the troops themselves were some big tough motherfuckers.GROM??? |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 8:20:04 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
<a href="http://s326.photobucket.com/user/phb1gt/media/450px-Submachine_gun_wz63_zps96bea479.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k407/phb1gt/450px-Submachine_gun_wz63_zps96bea479.jpg</a> <a href="http://s326.photobucket.com/user/phb1gt/media/pm63_2_zps177bfbb8.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k407/phb1gt/pm63_2_zps177bfbb8.jpg</a> PDW meant for rear-echelon personnel. These came in as parts kits a while ago, anyone do a build? Have any of you vets see one in Afghanistan or Iraq? I saw alot of differrpent guns in Iraq and 100s in afghanistan. Never seen that before. And I ve seen all the John Rambo movies. Which one was it in? Cool find. |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 11:06:30 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
GROM??? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Only one I ever saw was being carried by a Polish officer in Bosnia in 2004. The Poles were in major "transition" mode then... You'd see them with AKs, M16s, M9s... Sometimes Western and ComBloc gear even mixed in the same unit. . Guess you go fight with what you got. I'm sure they're more squared away now, the troops themselves were some big tough motherfuckers.GROM??? No, I've lived and fought with Poles in Afganistan, they are just some big dudes, lots of juice and gym time. |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 11:13:38 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, I've lived and fought with Poles in Afganistan, they are just some big dudes, lots of juice and gym time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Only one I ever saw was being carried by a Polish officer in Bosnia in 2004. The Poles were in major "transition" mode then... You'd see them with AKs, M16s, M9s... Sometimes Western and ComBloc gear even mixed in the same unit. . Guess you go fight with what you got. I'm sure they're more squared away now, the troops themselves were some big tough motherfuckers.GROM??? No, I've lived and fought with Poles in Afganistan, they are just some big dudes, lots of juice and gym time. Poles no good? |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 11:17:23 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Poles no good? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Only one I ever saw was being carried by a Polish officer in Bosnia in 2004. The Poles were in major "transition" mode then... You'd see them with AKs, M16s, M9s... Sometimes Western and ComBloc gear even mixed in the same unit. . Guess you go fight with what you got. I'm sure they're more squared away now, the troops themselves were some big tough motherfuckers.GROM??? No, I've lived and fought with Poles in Afganistan, they are just some big dudes, lots of juice and gym time. Poles no good? Sorry, that's not at all what I meant. I was saying to to it likely being GROM. Poles are some hard fighting dudes, great to have your back in a fight. I loved my time with them. |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 11:17:23 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Converted to shoot from closed slide. I may even shoot better that way, but for me this kills authenticity. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Coming to USA next year as a semi autohttp://www.pioneer-pac.com/pm63-c,prp1,5,2 Converted to shoot from closed slide. I may even shoot better that way, but for me this kills authenticity. Our government has determined that open bolt weapons are too easily converted to full auto use for us lowly civilians to own.
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Posted: 12/31/2014 11:21:52 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry, that's not at all what I meant. I was saying to to it likely being GROM. Poles are some hard fighting dudes, great to have your back in a fight. I loved my time with them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Only one I ever saw was being carried by a Polish officer in Bosnia in 2004. The Poles were in major "transition" mode then... You'd see them with AKs, M16s, M9s... Sometimes Western and ComBloc gear even mixed in the same unit. . Guess you go fight with what you got. I'm sure they're more squared away now, the troops themselves were some big tough motherfuckers.GROM??? No, I've lived and fought with Poles in Afganistan, they are just some big dudes, lots of juice and gym time. Poles no good? Sorry, that's not at all what I meant. I was saying to to it likely being GROM. Poles are some hard fighting dudes, great to have your back in a fight. I loved my time with them. 
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Posted: 1/5/2015 9:11:27 PM EDT
[#41]
I wasn't sure how the stock closed until watching one of the videos. It looks like it simply slides closed. The importers website shows small welds preventing the slide from being opened so it would seem relative easy to SBR one. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/5/2015 9:39:22 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The PM-63 is coming to the US in 2015 in the form of a semi pistol, imported by IO, made by Pioneer arms of Poland out of de milled parts. Oh baby ,oh baby!!
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Posted: 1/24/2015 10:06:54 PM EDT
[#43]
Any more news on this? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 10:09:26 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh baby ,oh baby!! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The PM-63 is coming to the US in 2015 in the form of a semi pistol, imported by IO, made by Pioneer arms of Poland out of de milled parts. Oh baby ,oh baby!! Glad to see the 9mm carbine market taking off. Cheap ammo is good ammo.
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Posted: 1/31/2015 9:32:56 PM EDT
[#45]
Has anyone seen one of the semi-auto ones or handled one? Does anyone know if the front handle is welded in place? I would imagine yes since it would otherwise be an AOW. |
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Posted: 2/9/2015 2:29:30 AM EDT
[#46]
Interested in this one.
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Posted: 2/9/2015 4:13:59 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Has anyone seen one of the semi-auto ones or handled one? Does anyone know if the front handle is welded in place? I would imagine yes since it would otherwise be an AOW. Front folding grip is not metal.......maybe pinned in the folded position though. |
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Posted: 2/9/2015 8:45:19 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Front folding grip is not metal.......maybe pinned in the folded position though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Has anyone seen one of the semi-auto ones or handled one? Does anyone know if the front handle is welded in place? I would imagine yes since it would otherwise be an AOW. Front folding grip is not metal.......maybe pinned in the folded position though. Cool. Hopefully it's an easy undo if we want to SBR it. Just curious: Do you know if it's Bakelite? |
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Posted: 2/9/2015 10:32:03 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cool. Hopefully it's an easy undo if we want to SBR it. Just curious: Do you know if it's Bakelite? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Has anyone seen one of the semi-auto ones or handled one? Does anyone know if the front handle is welded in place? I would imagine yes since it would otherwise be an AOW. Front folding grip is not metal.......maybe pinned in the folded position though. Cool. Hopefully it's an easy undo if we want to SBR it. Just curious: Do you know if it's Bakelite? The one I fondled at Knob Creek last spring seemed to be. |
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Posted: 2/9/2015 10:38:11 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Played with a few. Neat mechanically. But been told by Poles that spent allot of time behind the trigger that it was a a dangerous POS. I'm guessing that comes from using "creative" cocking methods......being that it's a open bolt SMG. If you press cock it using the spoon brake, and didn't get the bolt/slide back far enough to engage the sear.......bang. |
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