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Posted: 4/14/2016 9:29:52 PM EDT
In NC we're required to either use a Permit to Purchase a Pistol (PPP) or use a Concealed Carry permit to purchase a pistol. For the PPP they do a background check, including mental health, and then issue your permits. I have used PPP'S for 30 years in NC, they work fine. Until this week....
I went to purchase a pistol, whipped out my PPP, filled the 4473 out and expected to walk out with my pistol. Then the counter guy said "I have to do a NIC check. I told him he was wrong, he said they always do one. I again explained he was wrong even though they "always" do one. It was no use trying to explain and I knew this. The next day I talked to one of the owners. I asked why they did a NIC even though all that was needed was the PPP or CCW. He said "it's federal law", I said nope. Then I proceeded to show him the NC Firearm laws I had printed out, dated Dec 15th 2015. He read the section I pointed out stating the PPP or the CCW were acceptable alternative to a NIC check. He then told me that could be an old law, yeah, 4 months ago!!!! But that it may have changed. I then asked him to read the instructions for the 4473, specifically box 23, as it states the same thing. I could see wheels turning, he then stated he needed to call the ATF. About 10 minutes later he comes back and says "give him the pistol, he's right". Then he told everyone working that the new policy was no NIC check if they had a PPP or CCW 
It just goes to show that not even the gun stores know, or even read I, guess, the Federal and State laws. Most people wouldn't raise a stink, they figure buying a gun is a privilege, not a right I guess and don't want to fight for their rights, not me! |
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Posted: 4/14/2016 9:34:06 PM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 4/14/2016 9:35:23 PM EDT
[#2]
You have to have a permit to buy a pistol?
That sucks. |
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Posted: 4/14/2016 9:38:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You have to have a permit to buy a pistol? That sucks. Legacy of Jim Crow...Seriously! |
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Posted: 4/14/2016 9:40:11 PM EDT
[#4]
It's an old Jim Crowe law. White? You got a permit easily. Black? Tough luck.
Funny thing is liberals now love it. There was a bill to remove the requirement a year two ago, and the Dems went ballistic. Semper Fi |
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Posted: 4/14/2016 9:41:05 PM EDT
[#5]
Very good work
And another reason why the NICS numbers are undercounting gun sales. |
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Posted: 4/14/2016 9:44:21 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You have to have a permit to buy a pistol? That sucks. Yep, it's a pain in the ass now! Used to be it wasn't too bad but now the process takes months due to the rus of people busing pistols. They let you buy multiple permits for $5 each, good for 5 years. I figure ok, I'll put up with that bullshit because i have no choice but I'm not putting up with extra bullshit just because someone doesn't know the law.There was a lot of derp at that store, I'm surprised as they've been in business for a little over a year. |
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Posted: 4/14/2016 9:47:28 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep, it's a pain in the ass now! Used to be it wasn't too bad but now the process takes months due to the rus of people busing pistols. They let you buy multiple permits for $5 each, good for 5 years. I figure ok, I'll put up with that bullshit because i have no choice but I'm not putting up with extra bullshit just because someone doesn't know the law.There was a lot of derp at that store, I'm surprised as they've been in business for a little over a year. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You have to have a permit to buy a pistol? That sucks. Yep, it's a pain in the ass now! Used to be it wasn't too bad but now the process takes months due to the rus of people busing pistols. They let you buy multiple permits for $5 each, good for 5 years. I figure ok, I'll put up with that bullshit because i have no choice but I'm not putting up with extra bullshit just because someone doesn't know the law.There was a lot of derp at that store, I'm surprised as they've been in business for a little over a year. My reaction would have been to them let them know that I not anyone I knew would buy a gun from them ever again since I had to educate THEM on gun laws.....since it is what they do professionally and it makes them look bad to not know the law or even read the forms they use. I do not suffer fool gun shop owners when they don't k or the law or cower in fear when the law is on their side. |
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Posted: 4/14/2016 9:54:01 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My reaction would have been to them let them know that I not anyone I knew would buy a gun from them ever again since I had to educate THEM on gun laws.....since it is what they do professionally and it makes them look bad to not know the law or even read the forms they use. I do not suffer fool gun shop owners when they don't k or the law or cower in fear when the law is on their side. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You have to have a permit to buy a pistol? That sucks. Yep, it's a pain in the ass now! Used to be it wasn't too bad but now the process takes months due to the rus of people busing pistols. They let you buy multiple permits for $5 each, good for 5 years. I figure ok, I'll put up with that bullshit because i have no choice but I'm not putting up with extra bullshit just because someone doesn't know the law.There was a lot of derp at that store, I'm surprised as they've been in business for a little over a year. My reaction would have been to them let them know that I not anyone I knew would buy a gun from them ever again since I had to educate THEM on gun laws.....since it is what they do professionally and it makes them look bad to not know the law or even read the forms they use. I do not suffer fool gun shop owners when they don't k or the law or cower in fear when the law is on their side. I thought of that....but athe least he listened to me. Apparently a former manager came up with that rule and nobody ever questioned it. But you're right, if you're gonna sell something know the rules! They were doing a couple of other things wrong too, so I changed a couple of their policies
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Posted: 4/14/2016 9:54:56 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You have to have a permit to buy a pistol? That sucks. If you like your background check you can keep your background check. In Nebraska you get the permit if you can pass the standard NICS background check as the police run the exact same check. If background check laws are going to exist we might as well keep around a way to circumvent them... |
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Posted: 4/14/2016 9:55:56 PM EDT
[#10]
PPP are never going away unfortunately because the sherrifs office loves the money too much. Just another reason for me to move.
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Posted: 4/14/2016 10:05:05 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you like your background check you can keep your background check. In Nebraska you get the permit if you can pass the standard NICS background check as the police run the exact same check. If background check laws are going to exist we might as well keep around a way to circumvent them... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You have to have a permit to buy a pistol? That sucks. If you like your background check you can keep your background check. In Nebraska you get the permit if you can pass the standard NICS background check as the police run the exact same check. If background check laws are going to exist we might as well keep around a way to circumvent them... No, this isn't a way around the NIC. The sheriff does a NIC when you apply for the PPP. What I did was to only educate someone that should have known better. We all know the derp that occurs in a gun store. I personally can't stand it. And I'll be damned if I'll put up with incompetent people or Dirk Tacticool filling someone's head full of shit. |
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Posted: 4/14/2016 10:06:52 PM EDT
[#12]
[Vermont resident] What is this "permit you speak of? [/Vermont resident]
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Posted: 4/14/2016 10:09:01 PM EDT
[#13]
Hmmm, what store? Or at least a general location (county?).
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Posted: 4/14/2016 10:11:57 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's an old Jim Crowe law. White? You got a permit easily. Black? Tough luck. Funny thing is liberals now love it. There was a bill to remove the requirement a year two ago, and the Dems went ballistic. Semper Fi It's also been the same price since it was started. Back then the price of the permit was equal to the price of some firearms. Gun control is racist |
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Posted: 4/14/2016 10:17:35 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's also been the same price since it was started. Back then the price of the permit was equal to the price of some firearms. Gun control is racist Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's an old Jim Crowe law. White? You got a permit easily. Black? Tough luck. Funny thing is liberals now love it. There was a bill to remove the requirement a year two ago, and the Dems went ballistic. Semper Fi It's also been the same price since it was started. Back then the price of the permit was equal to the price of some firearms. Gun control is racist At least in NC it is! Isn't it funny how the libs are willing to overlook racism to control guns? Fucking hypocritical pieces of shit |
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Posted: 4/14/2016 10:25:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Legacy of Jim Crow...Seriously! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You have to have a permit to buy a pistol? That sucks. Legacy of Jim Crow...Seriously! Yup. And the NC Sheriffs' Association fought the law's repeal tooth and nail (recent attempt to remove the PPP from the books) because "mah revenue!" The stupid law needs to go. |
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Posted: 4/14/2016 10:33:50 PM EDT
[#17]
Yup. I refused to buy a pistol in the 3 years I lived there. My own sort of protest I guess, even though I had CCW. There's more than a few archaic/stupid laws in that state.
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Posted: 4/14/2016 10:34:02 PM EDT
[#18]
Iowa has the Permit to Acquire / Carry Permit requirement too. Sounds about the same as our law.
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Posted: 4/14/2016 10:59:51 PM EDT
[#19]
Tell us the name of the store.
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Posted: 4/15/2016 8:30:25 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tell us the name of the store. |
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Posted: 4/15/2016 8:34:29 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
[Vermont resident] What is this "permit you speak of? [/Vermont resident] (North Carolina resident) "Thanks for supporting Bernie Sanders as your US Senator" 
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Posted: 4/15/2016 8:46:42 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's an old Jim Crowe law. White? You got a permit easily. Black? Tough luck. Funny thing is liberals now love it. There was a bill to remove the requirement a year two ago, and the Dems went ballistic. Semper Fi Sheriffs went crazy too. Didn't want to lose a sweet revenue stream I suppose. |
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Posted: 4/15/2016 8:57:39 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
[Vermont resident] What is this "permit you speak of? [/Vermont resident] I wouldn't brag about living in the state that Berns. |
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Posted: 4/15/2016 9:15:01 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Legacy of Jim Crow...Seriously! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You have to have a permit to buy a pistol? That sucks. Legacy of Jim Crow...Seriously! Alabama doesn't even have that nonsense. Flash your pistol permit, pay your money and you're out the door. |
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Posted: 4/15/2016 9:16:41 AM EDT
[#25]
My Dad and stepmom are going through this bullshit process now.
It's so silly. |
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Posted: 4/15/2016 9:17:48 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup. I refused to buy a pistol in the 3 years I lived there. My own sort of protest I guess, even though I had CCW. There's more than a few archaic/stupid laws in that state. I refuse to not refuse to buy pistols here. Wait....what? I buy pistols here with my CCW permit and it is no problem at all. 
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Posted: 4/15/2016 9:27:43 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My reaction would have been to them let them know that I not anyone I knew would buy a gun from them ever again since I had to educate THEM on gun laws.....since it is what they do professionally and it makes them look bad to not know the law or even read the forms they use. I do not suffer fool gun shop owners when they don't k or the law or cower in fear when the law is on their side. Or, you could do what OP did and educate them in a positive, effective manner.
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Posted: 4/15/2016 9:30:07 AM EDT
[#28]
How does a FTF pistol sale between private parties go in N.C..
I lived there for several years and was never clear on this. Heard all kinds of differing explanations |
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Posted: 4/15/2016 9:43:14 AM EDT
[#29]
So, why don't you have a CWP to avoid all of that?
Here in Better Carolina it's NICS or CWP, and anyone that's smart has their CWP... |
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Posted: 4/15/2016 9:59:52 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Alabama doesn't even have that nonsense. Flash your pistol permit, pay your money and you're out the door. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You have to have a permit to buy a pistol? That sucks. Legacy of Jim Crow...Seriously! Alabama doesn't even have that nonsense. Flash your pistol permit, pay your money and you're out the door. That exactly how it is here in NC too, with a Concealed Weapon Permit. People who DON'T have a CWP can get a Pistol Purchase Permit that acts in the same way for sales - except the PPP is a piece of paper you surrender at the time of sale, and is good for one purchase. The OP is talking about using a Pistol Purchase Permit in his cool story. Which, by the way I am calling  on.
Looks like this in NC General Statute 14-403 http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByArticle/Chapter_14/Article_52A.html § 14-403. Permit issued by sheriff; form of permit; expiration of permit. The sheriffs of any and all counties of this State shall issue to any person, firm, or corporation in any county a permit to purchase or receive any weapon mentioned in this Article from any person, firm, or corporation offering to sell or dispose of the weapon. The permit shall expire five years from the date of issuance. The permit shall be a standard form created by the State Bureau of Investigation in consultation with the North Carolina Sheriffs' Association, shall be of a uniform size and material, and shall be designed with security features intended to minimize the ability to counterfeit or replicate the permit and shall be set forth as follows: North Carolina, ________ County. I, ________, Sheriff of said County, do hereby certify that I have conducted a criminal background check of the applicant, ________ whose place of residence is ________ in ________ (or) in ________ Township, ________ County, North Carolina, and have received no information to indicate that it would be a violation of State or federal law for the applicant to purchase, transfer, receive, or possess a handgun. The applicant has further satisfied me as to his, her (or) their good moral character. Therefore, a permit is issued to ________ to purchase one pistol from any person, firm or corporation authorized to dispose of the same. This permit expires five years from its date of issuance. This __ day of ______, ____. NC General Statute 14-402 explains the private sale question the person above asked about. Basically, for a private sale you have to have either a CWP or a PPP to buy, trade, or be given a handgun in NC. If using a PPP, the seller is supposed to retain the PPP for their records - if the buyer has a CWP, all the seller has to do is verify it by looking at it. |
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Posted: 4/15/2016 10:09:32 AM EDT
[#31]
Mills Fleet Farm does the same thing, company wide as I understand it. Buy a gun, show a permit, and they call you in anyway.
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Posted: 4/15/2016 6:38:43 PM EDT
[#32]
You are absolutely correct as far as the laws go. And for those NC people the next time someone wants to do a NIC, and you have your PPP or CCW, point out box 23 on the 4473, then tell them to read the instructions for that box. It specifically states what you need, and you don't need another NIC.
As far as calling bs, I don't want to name the store because I fixed the problem. So I don't feel a need to bad mouth them. Apparently for the last year or so nobody else figured it out, and I'm sure that included lots of people. But, only those with a PPP, those with a CCW didn't get the NIC check....go figure. Me, I don't feel a need to CCW. I know my limitations and I think I'm better off without one. I don't open carry either, unless I'm hunting, going hunting or returning from hunting. I have lots of friends, most, that carry. I don't have anything against it, it's just not for me. I have studied martial arts for years, did my time in the Corps, know and understand situational awareness, so I feel ok with my decision. But, I thoroughly stand for my 2A rights and will defend them accordingly. Just hope everyone else does too.... |
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Posted: 4/15/2016 6:42:02 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Legacy of Jim Crow...Seriously! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You have to have a permit to buy a pistol? That sucks. Legacy of Jim Crow...Seriously! That bastard. 
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Posted: 4/15/2016 6:46:51 PM EDT
[#34]
We used to have to get a "PPP" here in Missouri. Glad they did away with that BS.
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Posted: 4/15/2016 7:01:59 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
(North Carolina resident) "Thanks for supporting Bernie Sanders as your US Senator" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
[Vermont resident] What is this "permit you speak of? [/Vermont resident] (North Carolina resident) "Thanks for supporting Bernie Sanders as your US Senator" It's true, every single resident of Vermont is a flea infested hippie commie Bern supporter
Grow the fuck up. |
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Posted: 4/15/2016 7:05:37 PM EDT
[#36]
You can buy a permit that's good for five years. Commit a crime, go to prison for two years, get out and use the permit to buy a gun (you can use one on a long gun too) without a current background check.
You would be lying on the 4473, but felons do lie sometimes. |
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Posted: 4/15/2016 7:15:57 PM EDT
[#37]
My lgs ran nics for an 1895 Ludwig Loewe mauser.
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Posted: 4/15/2016 7:18:14 PM EDT
[#38]
Unless they changed to a statewide universal form, some of the county permit applications required an affidavit from several references affirming your perfect character.
No thanks. |
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Posted: 4/15/2016 7:26:32 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You have to have a permit to buy a pistol? That sucks. https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/general-information/participation-map The permit is an internal NICS. Quite a few states have their own sytem equivalent to NICS. Some are hybrid, handguns fed, lng guns state. |
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Posted: 4/15/2016 7:30:15 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You have to have a permit to buy a pistol? That sucks. NJ does too. But then again, NJ requires a permit to buy a long gun too. |
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Posted: 4/15/2016 7:34:49 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How does a FTF pistol sale between private parties go in N.C.. I lived there for several years and was never clear on this. Heard all kinds of differing explanations Everyone buying a handgun needs either PPP from the Sheriff or a valid NC CHP it doesn't matter if its a FTF or from a dealer |
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Posted: 4/15/2016 7:37:56 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are absolutely correct as far as the laws go. And for those NC people the next time someone wants to do a NIC, and you have your PPP or CCW, point out box 23 on the 4473, then tell them to read the instructions for that box. It specifically states what you need, and you don't need another NIC. As far as calling bs, I don't want to name the store because I fixed the problem. So I don't feel a need to bad mouth them. Apparently for the last year or so nobody else figured it out, and I'm sure that included lots of people. But, only those with a PPP, those with a CCW didn't get the NIC check....go figure. Me, I don't feel a need to CCW. I know my limitations and I think I'm better off without one. I don't open carry either, unless I'm hunting, going hunting or returning from hunting. I have lots of friends, most, that carry. I don't have anything against it, it's just not for me. I have studied martial arts for years, did my time in the Corps, know and understand situational awareness, so I feel ok with my decision. But, I thoroughly stand for my 2A rights and will defend them accordingly. Just hope everyone else does too.... Just to clarify in NC there is no such thing as a CCW it is called by Statute a Concealed Handgun Permit (CHP). |
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Posted: 4/15/2016 7:40:31 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My lgs ran nics for an 1895 Ludwig Loewe mauser. People and shops that don't know the law pisses me off.
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Posted: 4/15/2016 7:58:45 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
PPP are never going away unfortunately because the sherrifs office loves the money too much. Just another reason for me to move. How are they making money at $5 a pop? |
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Posted: 4/15/2016 8:03:37 PM EDT
[#45]
I hate our permit laws
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Posted: 4/15/2016 8:07:32 PM EDT
[#46]
Well you were right, but I probably would have just let him run the NICS check after I tried to tell him once. Was this a small store?
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Posted: 4/15/2016 8:11:04 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How does a FTF pistol sale between private parties go in N.C.. I lived there for several years and was never clear on this. Heard all kinds of differing explanations You need a purchase permit. You even need the PPP if you are receiving one as a gift. |
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Posted: 4/15/2016 8:42:39 PM EDT
[#48]
NC pistol permit process is pretty simple.
Can fill out an application online. Pay online, then just go to the sheriff's office and pick them up. You can get 5 at a time so it's like getting 5 NICS checks in advance all at once |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 5:37:12 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We used to have to get a "PPP" here in Missouri. Glad they did away with that BS. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 6:47:25 AM EDT
[#50]
I used to live in NC. In order to get a PP you had to take someone from your county with you to the SO and have him/her sign off that you were OK. You could get 5 at a time for $2.00 each. The way the law was originally written, the person you brought with had to be a lawyer, doctor or some other prominent person. It was a Jim Crow Law.
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