User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 12:36:47 AM EDT
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a21305/mwari-south-african-prop-plane/
The Mwari, named for a southern African god of creation, is based on Paramount's Advanced High Performance Reconnaissance Light Attack Aircraft (AHRLAC). Designed for civilian use and security missions, AHRLAC recently completed flight testing. Now Paramount is offering the militarized Mwari version to customers in Africa and further afield. Paramount Group chairman Igor Ichikowitz spoke to Popular Mechanics from Kazakhstan where he was trying to sell the Kazakh government on the Mwari. The ideal combat aircraft for African nations and others like Kazakhstan that have similar needs, he says, would be "a platform that could do most of what a helicopter could do but at the cost of a single-engine fixed wing airplane." |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 12:45:05 AM EDT
[#1]
Does it have a gun?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 12:46:38 AM EDT
[#2]
How much?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 12:50:31 AM EDT
[#3]
From the .pdf on their site.
Seeing stuff saying the estimated cost was $10,000,000/unit. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 12:51:34 AM EDT
[#4]
Cool set up. Looks like a Skymaster rear with a jet fighter cockpit.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 1:09:48 AM EDT
[#5]
It's like a bronco and a bird-dog had a baby
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 1:11:22 AM EDT
[#6]
Very cool looking aircraft.
I wonder what they mean by "affordable"? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 1:11:41 AM EDT
[#7]
Looks like an overgrown ultralight.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 1:16:01 AM EDT
[#8]
Neat.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 1:17:08 AM EDT
[#9]
10 mil each for a bird dog doesn't seem too affordable
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 1:18:36 AM EDT
[#10]
20 mike mike internal and at least 6 hardpoints on the wings for stores.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 1:20:22 AM EDT
[#11]
Seems like a very reasonable, practical concept.
Cost seems a bit high, but who knows why. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 1:47:07 AM EDT
[#12]
In a Syria type atmosphere where the opfor has access to sa-7/stingers these would be death traps
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 1:57:57 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In a Syria type atmosphere where the opfor has access to sa-7/stingers these would be death traps I imagine even a ZSU mount would be big trouble for a slow-mover fixed wing. At least rotorcraft can hover NOE and engage while covered. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 4:18:09 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I imagine even a ZSU mount would be big trouble for a slow-mover fixed wing. At least rotorcraft can hover NOE and engage while covered. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In a Syria type atmosphere where the opfor has access to sa-7/stingers these would be death traps I imagine even a ZSU mount would be big trouble for a slow-mover fixed wing. At least rotorcraft can hover NOE and engage while covered. Imagine how much chaos a machine gun company would have firing at these. No armor. No speed. Yeah..good idea for Afghanistan where SAMs were pretty rare but Syria is another story. Load them up with rockets, fuel, an 20mm and loiter at high altitudes over fobs like a hawk looking for a mouse. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 4:30:40 AM EDT
[#15]
interesting
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 4:39:18 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cool set up. Looks like a Skymaster rear with a jet fighter cockpit. Actually, it looks like an attack helicopter cockpit. Someone here suggested something similar, a few years ago, only based on an OV-10 rather than a Skymaster. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 4:45:47 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
10 mil each for a bird dog doesn't seem too affordable An Apache costs 35 million. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 5:11:12 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
An Apache costs 35 million. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
10 mil each for a bird dog doesn't seem too affordable An Apache costs 35 million. True but affordable would be closer to 500k, not ten mil. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 5:52:48 AM EDT
[#19]
I've always liked the look of the Embraer EMB 314 Super Tucano.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 5:56:56 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
True but affordable would be closer to 500k, not ten mil. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
10 mil each for a bird dog doesn't seem too affordable An Apache costs 35 million. True but affordable would be closer to 500k, not ten mil. It gets worse. According to the article: Paramount's stated goal is to make Mwari the cheapest of its kind and initial estimates put the price tag at less than $20 million for an airplane ready to go. That sounds expensive as hell but I imagine fixed-wing is cheaper to maintain and repair than a helicopter of similar price. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 5:57:16 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: True but affordable would be closer to 500k, not ten mil. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: 10 mil each for a bird dog doesn't seem too affordable An Apache costs 35 million. True but affordable would be closer to 500k, not ten mil. Have you priced airplanes lately? You can barely buy a new Cirrus for that, let alone a Mooney or something  |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 1:18:29 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In a Syria type atmosphere where the opfor has access to sa-7/stingers these would be death traps A SA-7 won't be hitting anything flying a 30,000 feet. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 1:27:41 PM EDT
[#23]
Fuselage mounted cannon?
Where? That cockpit sits pretty low. Take away the space needed for the nosegear and that sensor ball on the nose, what room is left for a cannon? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 1:31:56 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
An Apache costs 35 million. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
10 mil each for a bird dog doesn't seem too affordable An Apache costs 35 million. So at 20 million a pop you can ALMOST buy two of these or one Apache Hmmmm. .. that's a tough decision 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 1:34:39 PM EDT
[#25]
Looks like something you would see a lot of if the Rhodesia fight were going on today instead of the 1970's. I have a great uncle who flew for the RhAF. I'll have to show him this thread.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 1:35:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So at 20 million a pop you can ALMOST buy two of these or one Apache Hmmmm. .. that's a tough decision Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: 10 mil each for a bird dog doesn't seem too affordable An Apache costs 35 million. So at 20 million a pop you can ALMOST buy two of these or one Apache Hmmmm. .. that's a tough decision |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 1:39:21 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
10 mil each for a bird dog doesn't seem too affordable That depends on whose money you're spending. Price a new Baron or a Bonanza, prices are insane, and those have piston engines. Price engines and avionics, too, it's easy to spend $50k for a piston engine, before hanging accessories or a propeller. I posted a link and photo of this ugly bitch a month or so ago in one of the interminable OV-10/F-35/CAS threads. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 1:42:16 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fuselage mounted cannon? Where? That cockpit sits pretty low. Take away the space needed for the nosegear and that sensor ball on the nose, what room is left for a cannon? Port side. Here's a pic with it visible (assuming it's not an operational gun in the photo, but shows you where it is.) 
ETA: Also, the company lists it as an option, so possibly the customer can choose between sensor packages and a cannon (either a 20mm Nexter F2 or an unnamed 30mm, presumably a DEFA.) |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 1:42:54 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 10 mil each for a bird dog doesn't seem too affordable |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 1:52:08 PM EDT
[#30]
I'm thinking a drone would be cheaper
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 2:11:38 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So at 20 million a pop you can ALMOST buy two of these or one Apache Hmmmm. .. that's a tough decision Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
10 mil each for a bird dog doesn't seem too affordable An Apache costs 35 million. So at 20 million a pop you can ALMOST buy two of these or one Apache Hmmmm. .. that's a tough decision This one has greater range and loiter time, higher service ceiling (especially when hot and high), faster, much cheaper to operate etc. etc. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 2:12:39 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm thinking a drone would be cheaper Do you know what a drone with comparable capabilites would cost to purchase, much less operate? Large military drones aren't cheap. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 2:21:00 PM EDT
[#33]
I like the general concept and layout, but why would Anyone buy a plane designed or built in Africa?
And for $10 - $20 Million?  It just doesn't make any friggin sense. That is a 4 million dollar plane, maybe 5.5 with all the options. (And I'm using first world pricing)
Even African Warlords are smarter than that. You buy your aircraft from reputable, established manufacturers, who can offer support and training. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 2:24:37 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
True but affordable would be closer to 500k, not ten mil. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
10 mil each for a bird dog doesn't seem too affordable An Apache costs 35 million. True but affordable would be closer to 500k, not ten mil. Initial costs are negligible for combat aircraft. Operating costs are where the real money is spent... and fixed-wing is shitloads cheaper than rotary. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 2:24:49 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like the general concept and layout, but why would Anyone buy a plane designed or built in Africa? And for $10 - $20 Million? It just doesn't make any friggin sense. That is a 4 million dollar plane, maybe 5.5 with all the options. (And I'm using first world pricing)Even African Warlords are smarter than that. You buy your aircraft from reputable, established manufacturers, who can offer support and training. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 2:27:39 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like the general concept and layout, but why would Anyone buy a plane designed or built in Africa? And for $10 - $20 Million? It just doesn't make any friggin sense. That is a 4 million dollar plane, maybe 5.5 with all the options. (And I'm using first world pricing)
Even African Warlords are smarter than that. You buy your aircraft from reputable, established manufacturers, who can offer support and training. Paramount isn't some shady company located in some guy's garage. They have a proven track record. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 3:00:23 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Paramount isn't some shady company located in some guy's garage. They have a proven track record. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I like the general concept and layout, but why would Anyone buy a plane designed or built in Africa? And for $10 - $20 Million? It just doesn't make any friggin sense. That is a 4 million dollar plane, maybe 5.5 with all the options. (And I'm using first world pricing)
Even African Warlords are smarter than that. You buy your aircraft from reputable, established manufacturers, who can offer support and training. Paramount isn't some shady company located in some guy's garage. They have a proven track record. Their aviation experience is thin. I still think this machine started as a senior design project in a South African university. Even if not, they need to hire a good loftsman. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 3:03:01 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So at 20 million a pop you can ALMOST buy two of these or one Apache Hmmmm. .. that's a tough decision Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
10 mil each for a bird dog doesn't seem too affordable An Apache costs 35 million. So at 20 million a pop you can ALMOST buy two of these or one Apache Hmmmm. .. that's a tough decision Yeah it's a really easy decision. You can operate 3 or 4 of these, and actually have a pretty good chance of one being available when you need it, or for the same money buy an Apache or 2, fly it a couple times a year, and trailer it in parades. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 3:03:06 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
True but affordable would be closer to 500k, not ten mil. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
10 mil each for a bird dog doesn't seem too affordable An Apache costs 35 million. True but affordable would be closer to 500k, not ten mil. Loggie tail on that 10 mil a copy is significantly less as is CPFH. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 3:04:51 PM EDT
[#40]
That's sexy.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 3:24:24 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A SA-7 won't be hitting anything flying a 30,000 feet. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In a Syria type atmosphere where the opfor has access to sa-7/stingers these would be death traps A SA-7 won't be hitting anything flying a 30,000 feet. Neither will this plane. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 3:38:01 PM EDT
[#42]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 3:50:46 PM EDT
[#43]
"We'll take 100!"
-Sinaloa Cartel, Mexico |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 3:50:47 PM EDT
[#44]
Looks like a Transavia Mango/AirTruk and a Sadler Piranha had an ugly, expensive lovechild.
ETA: I think Erik Prince is on the right track with the armed AirTractors. Ugly as sin, but good for small runways, maneuvering, and austere conditions. Besides, nothing says "F*** YOU!" like .50BMG coming at you at a minimum of 1000 rounds per minute with that GAU-19/B. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 4:00:05 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Neither will this plane. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In a Syria type atmosphere where the opfor has access to sa-7/stingers these would be death traps A SA-7 won't be hitting anything flying a 30,000 feet. Neither will this plane. With a SDB it will. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 4:00:28 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Their aviation experience is thin. I still think this machine started as a senior design project in a South African university. Even if not, they need to hire a good loftsman. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I like the general concept and layout, but why would Anyone buy a plane designed or built in Africa? And for $10 - $20 Million? It just doesn't make any friggin sense. That is a 4 million dollar plane, maybe 5.5 with all the options. (And I'm using first world pricing)
Even African Warlords are smarter than that. You buy your aircraft from reputable, established manufacturers, who can offer support and training. Paramount isn't some shady company located in some guy's garage. They have a proven track record. Their aviation experience is thin. I still think this machine started as a senior design project in a South African university. Even if not, they need to hire a good loftsman. True. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 4:05:29 PM EDT
[#47]
the price probably includes a maintenance and support package
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 4:33:25 PM EDT
[#48]
Reminds me of the Dassault-Dornier Alpha.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 4:46:04 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Imagine how much chaos a machine gun company would have firing at these. No armor. No speed. Yeah..good idea for Afghanistan where SAMs were pretty rare but Syria is another story. Load them up with rockets, fuel, an 20mm and loiter at high altitudes over fobs like a hawk looking for a mouse. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In a Syria type atmosphere where the opfor has access to sa-7/stingers these would be death traps I imagine even a ZSU mount would be big trouble for a slow-mover fixed wing. At least rotorcraft can hover NOE and engage while covered. Imagine how much chaos a machine gun company would have firing at these. No armor. No speed. Yeah..good idea for Afghanistan where SAMs were pretty rare but Syria is another story. Load them up with rockets, fuel, an 20mm and loiter at high altitudes over fobs like a hawk looking for a mouse. AT-802U |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2016 4:46:37 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually, it looks like an attack helicopter cockpit. Someone here suggested something similar, a few years ago, only based on an OV-10 rather than a Skymaster. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Cool set up. Looks like a Skymaster rear with a jet fighter cockpit. Actually, it looks like an attack helicopter cockpit. Someone here suggested something similar, a few years ago, only based on an OV-10 rather than a Skymaster. It looks like it's patterned after something like an old German Alphajet. My bad brother, I didn't see you there. Quoted:
Reminds me of the Dassault-Dornier Alpha. http://www.militaryaircraft.de/pictures/military/aircraft/Alpha-Jet/Alpha-Jet_2007-09-WTD61_0118_800.jpg |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
