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That time. One data point. There are other data points. How did that "chocolate city", New Orleans, do when Hurricane Katrina blew through? I seem to recall shitloads of people died, and it took a long time to recover, even with the government bringing down outside supplies .... View Quote My poknt in all this is not to say that the law is a good law but that those stating they will necessasrily cause shortages obviously haven't lived through it. |
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Getting "fucked over" would have been all of the water being sold out because it was being sold at artificially low prices. People who didnt really need it would buy it in that case, and the desperate guy in your story would have gone without. Allowing prices to adjust to demand ensures that those who need it most can purchase what they need (read: willing to pay higher prices). Its called efficient allocation of resources, and its a cornerstone of basic economics. Gunowners struggled to understand this when luxury goods were in short supply following 2013... so I understand why peoples feels are even more hurt in this instance. I cant tell the difference between this place and DU sometimes View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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We had a water crisis here a few years back, where an algae bloom developed in the western basin of Lake Erie (where our potable water comes from) and caused cytotoxins (or some shit like that - I'm not up on all the scientific shit about this) to form in the water supply, making it undrinkable without risk of liver damage (again, something like that anyway). So this gets announced on the local news with about "zero" advance warning to anyone, and suddenly people are going apeshit trying to find and purchase bottled drinking water of any kind. Stores are mobbed, and shelves quickly start to become bare, as people are stocking up, because no one is sure how long the ban on drinking tap water will be in effect. Pretty soon nearly all stores are out, and people are driving all over the place trying to find any place that still has some water in stock. There was one Ma and Pa gas station/convenience store that still had some 24 packs of Dasani or something like that, which he would normally sell for $3.99 or $4.99, thereabouts. The owner put out a sign saying he had this water, and it was now $20 for a 24 pack. Some people who were desperate were willing to pay that amount, so they did, but word of these shenanigans quickly got into the local news. The State Attorney General crawled up in his shit in the aftermath, and the bad publicity he got cost him a lot of business from previously loyal customers weeks and months later, so the moral of this story is that any business owner who thinks it is a good idea to try and cash in and make a quick buck on other people's misfortune is best advised to consider the long term cost/benefit analysis before doing so. I'm certain he ended up losing a LOT more $ due to pissed off customers afterwards than he made taking advantage of them during the crisis. Whether legal or not, it's really NOT a sound business decision to try and fuck your customers over. ETA: Myself, I didn't even bother running anywhere to look for water. I had a small supply at home, and when that ran out, I simply went to the designated place where the National Guard troops were giving out free water, which I knew was going to happen by D Plus 48 Hours regardless. Allowing prices to adjust to demand ensures that those who need it most can purchase what they need (read: willing to pay higher prices). Its called efficient allocation of resources, and its a cornerstone of basic economics. Gunowners struggled to understand this when luxury goods were in short supply following 2013... so I understand why peoples feels are even more hurt in this instance. Quoted:
Maybe don't run your business in razor thin margins all the time and you'd be able to weather a storm. So let me try and help you here, and hopefully I don't have to resort to crayon pictures. What was THE CUSTOMER'S PERCEPTION of what happened in the business interaction described in my example? Who, at the end of the day, does the business owner's livelihood depend on? Hmmm! C'mon, this isn't hard. I can assure you, absolutely, that panic stricken people in search of survival needs don't give a damn about economic theory, but WILL remember their perceptions of what happened in the aftermath, and whether those perceptions align with pure economic theory or not, it is those perceptions that the business owner's continued livelihood depends upon, and that form his reputation. The customer's perception IS the business owner's reality. If you fail to understand this point, you should stick to sophomore level textbooks, and try to avoid business reality, because you're going to cut yourself and it's going to hurt. |
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Let me axe you a question... Without looking it up, can you tell me what the maximum sustained winds in Houston were during Ike? View Quote |
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I actually don't recall but I do recal cutting trees on roads stretching from rice village to garden oaks to get my chainsaw to a buddy up there when his crapped out the morning after the storm. The storm surge and flooding did more damage than the wind except in downtown where the wind blew out windows all over downtown. But my experience was the same in areas around other hurricanes I've weathered. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Let me axe you a question... Without looking it up, can you tell me what the maximum sustained winds in Houston were during Ike? |
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No, lack of order and people buying up all the gas because it's artificially cheap so that there is none left for anyone gets people killed. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Yes, selling gasoline for seven dollars a gallon while people are trying to evacuate is capitalism. It's also one of those things that results in a breakdown of societal order very quickly and has people floating around in the gulf with a gunshot wound to the back of the head. |
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Where was this guy when Cheaper Than Dirt was charging $75 for a pmag?
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My ex used to laugh at me because I kept a chainsaw even tough I lived in an apartment. I've lived through enough hurricanes to know I'll never be without one View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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Where was this guy when Cheaper Than Dirt was charging $75 for a pmag? View Quote That is not supple and demand. That is breech of contract or any other bitchy term I can come up with. |
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The Texas AG is just trying to protect the best interests of Texans. If they were to spend all of their money on goods to survive the hurricane, how would they be able to pay for their multi-million dollar HS football stadiums. Gotta have your priorities straight.
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So......you own a small store and a monster storm is coming. You understand that you may be closed for an extended period of time after the storm because of damage, supply chain issues, power outages, etc........so that water bottle may be the last one you sell for awhile......you already operate on a razor thin margin........and you are not allowed to raise your prices ? Seriously? Have you even thought this through ? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I hate gouging scumbags. I make a mental note of the ones that do it and refuse to shop there ever again. There are places I still won't buy at since Gloria back in 1985. Seriously? Have you even thought this through ? Seriously? Have you even thought this through? Christ! It's like pulling teeth for some of you to get over your mental problems. I never said it should be made illegal. Just that I'm not doing business with them, so get over yourself. Think of it as me putting them on Ignore. |
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Supply and demand for the win, but screwing people in need is bullshit. I hope gougers are shot. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Supply and demand for the win, but screwing people in need is bullshit. I hope gougers are shot. Quoted:
I cant tell the difference between this place and DU sometimes |
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Is there some fucking reason I should have to buy from a business whose practices I disagree with? Seriously? Have you even thought this through? Christ! It's like pulling teeth for some of you to get over your mental problems. I never said it should be made illegal. Just that I'm not doing business with them, so get over yourself. Think of it as me putting them on Ignore. View Quote There are a large number of people here trying to show why it's actually moral. |
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Because you think the business is being immoral. There are a large number of people here trying to show why it's actually moral. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Is there some fucking reason I should have to buy from a business whose practices I disagree with? Seriously? Have you even thought this through? Christ! It's like pulling teeth for some of you to get over your mental problems. I never said it should be made illegal. Just that I'm not doing business with them, so get over yourself. Think of it as me putting them on Ignore. There are a large number of people here trying to show why it's actually moral. It is "amoral." This is true of ALL business. |
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Maybe don't run your business in razor thin margins all the time and you'd be able to weather a storm. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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So......you own a small store and a monster storm is coming. You understand that you may be closed for an extended period of time after the storm because of damage, supply chain issues, power outages, etc........so that water bottle may be the last one you sell for awhile......you already operate on a razor thin margin........and you are not allowed to raise your prices ? Seriously? Have you even thought this through ? Sounds like it would be easier just to buy a few gallons of gas and case of water ahead of time. |
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I actually don't recall but I do recal cutting trees on roads stretching from rice village to garden oaks to get my chainsaw to a buddy up there when his crapped out the morning after the storm. The storm surge and flooding did more damage than the wind except in downtown where the wind blew out windows all over downtown. But my experience was the same in areas around other hurricanes I've weathered. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Let me axe you a question... Without looking it up, can you tell me what the maximum sustained winds in Houston were during Ike? Ike is not representative of anything. https://www.weather.gov/images/lch/tropical/ike/Ike_Wind.png |
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Serious question, should somebody be allowed to yell FIRE in a crowded theater because of free speech? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Serious question, should somebody be allowed to yell FIRE in a crowded theater because of free speech? Not one anti "gouging" person in this thread has accepted responsibility, nor suggested others be responsible, for: 1. Choosing to live in an area which experiences hurricanes. 2. Failure to make preparations to protect themselves, loved ones, and property. 3. Failure to acquire supplies and materials to protect themselves, loved ones, and property. Quoted:
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For the capitalists in this thread, do you ever get tired of explaining supply, demand, and enterprise to socialists? Stay the fuck home with your overpriced generators you goddammed Yankees. We will get by just fine until a local merchant brings some in and sells them for their normal everyday price. |
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We own ourselves and our actions. Yell "fire" if you like, but be prepared to experience the consequences. Not one anti "gouging" person in this thread has accepted responsibility, nor suggested others be responsible, for: 1. Choosing to live in an area which experiences hurricanes. 2. Failure to make preparations to protect themselves, loved ones, and property. 3. Failure to acquire supplies and materials to protect themselves, loved ones, and property. You're trolling, but I'll explain capitalism for the lurkers. With capitalism, no transaction takes place unless both parties benefit. Those local merchants sell you generators because they want your dollars, not because they're your buddies. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Serious question, should somebody be allowed to yell FIRE in a crowded theater because of free speech? Not one anti "gouging" person in this thread has accepted responsibility, nor suggested others be responsible, for: 1. Choosing to live in an area which experiences hurricanes. 2. Failure to make preparations to protect themselves, loved ones, and property. 3. Failure to acquire supplies and materials to protect themselves, loved ones, and property. Quoted:
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For the capitalists in this thread, do you ever get tired of explaining supply, demand, and enterprise to socialists? Stay the fuck home with your overpriced generators you goddammed Yankees. We will get by just fine until a local merchant brings some in and sells them for their normal everyday price. |
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@1srelluc just tacitly defended Texas. 1st sign of the apocalypse. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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They proposed it once, failed miserably. Let's just say I've had dealings with peeps from AK and I've found them a lot more wanting/needy than peeps from Texas. They honestly think that they should receive the same shipping service in their "get away from it all" hovel as those living in the lower 48. I had one guy that EMed me wondering where his gun part was, I looked it up and it was at his PO awaiting pick-up. Come to find out the fucker lived on a lake at least 75 miles from the nearest state road. Dead of Winter I guess they flew the mail in to the general store on the end of the lake. But yeah, it's my fault he did not hop on his fucking dog sled and mush his way to his PO. I took care of that problem, I just don't ship to AK anymore. Fuck-em', they can make their own damn gun parts when they break something. |
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You cherry picked and did not read all my posts. And that makes you smarter huh? View Quote Tard is as tard types. |
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For whatever you may have in an understanding of economic theory, you certainly lack in any understanding of business, a topic you very obviously know nothing about. So let me try and help you here, and hopefully I don't have to resort to crayon pictures. What was THE CUSTOMER'S PERCEPTION of what happened in the business interaction described in my example? Who, at the end of the day, does the business owner's livelihood depend on? Hmmm! C'mon, this isn't hard. I can assure you, absolutely, that panic stricken people in search of survival needs don't give a damn about economic theory, but WILL remember their perceptions of what happened in the aftermath, and whether those perceptions align with pure economic theory or not, it is those perceptions that the business owner's continued livelihood depends upon, and that form his reputation. The customer's perception IS the business owner's reality. If you fail to understand this point, you should stick to sophomore level textbooks, and try to avoid business reality, because you're going to cut yourself and it's going to hurt. View Quote No doubt many business owners will consider those points against their own situation and set prices accordingly. But no one can or should be making that choice for them. |
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So you as the customer want to pay more than you have to ALL THE TIME to subsidize the store owner during an emergency? Sounds like it would be easier just to buy a few gallons of gas and case of water ahead of time. View Quote I have had a hurricane prep kit in every home I've lived in for over 25 years now and have 20 gallons of fuel in cans that I rotate through and last night I filled up 15 gallons of water in containers at the house for drinking just so I don't have to touch the bottles unless this goes for a long haul. |
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I wonder why communist countries never seem to be able to supply toilet paper in adequate amounts?
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Cat 1 is 75 to 95 MPH. Everything west of the eye was a weak Cat 1. Ike is not representative of anything. https://www.weather.gov/images/lch/tropical/ike/Ike_Wind.png https://www.weather.gov/images/lch/tropical/ike/Ike_Wind.png View Quote |
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You cherry picked and did not read all my posts. And that makes you smarter huh? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
You cherry picked and did not read all my posts. And that makes you smarter huh? Quoted:
I wonder why communist countries never seem to be able to supply toilet paper in adequate amounts? |
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I went back and read your posts. Turns out we agree in substance, for the most part, but you just really suck at elucidating your points. This is why you keep having to type out things like "My point was". Tard is as tard types. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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You cherry picked and did not read all my posts. And that makes you smarter huh? Tard is as tard types. Yes it is a public forum. Yes you can post what you want. But all of my posts have been directed at 2-3 people in a a back and forth. You are more than welcome to join. Just absorb the context of what is going on before blindly making your point all of the internet MUST KNOW IMMEDIATELY. We do agree for the most part. My whole point in my line of posting today, is hard questions must be asked of those towing a hard line. While I don't agree with the other side of this issue, in some cases I can understand the desire to try to make it better. Even if the logic is flawed. As for one of the guys ranting about Texas needing laws when his very own state already had a broader law that he most likely, through default, had benefited from. I am just asking hard questions, a lot of people don't do. A lot of people just jump on the COOL bandwagon, without doing so. And I hope you aren't offended by my bluntness, I am certainly not offended by you not understanding my point completely from the onset. |
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Is there some fucking reason I should have to buy from a business whose practices I disagree with? Seriously? Have you even thought this through? Christ! It's like pulling teeth for some of you to get over your mental problems. I never said it should be made illegal. Just that I'm not doing business with them, so get over yourself. Think of it as me putting them on Ignore. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I hate gouging scumbags. I make a mental note of the ones that do it and refuse to shop there ever again. There are places I still won't buy at since Gloria back in 1985. Seriously? Have you even thought this through ? Seriously? Have you even thought this through? Christ! It's like pulling teeth for some of you to get over your mental problems. I never said it should be made illegal. Just that I'm not doing business with them, so get over yourself. Think of it as me putting them on Ignore. |
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Because you think the business is being immoral. There are a large number of people here trying to show why it's actually moral. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Is there some fucking reason I should have to buy from a business whose practices I disagree with? Seriously? Have you even thought this through? Christ! It's like pulling teeth for some of you to get over your mental problems. I never said it should be made illegal. Just that I'm not doing business with them, so get over yourself. Think of it as me putting them on Ignore. There are a large number of people here trying to show why it's actually moral. You do what you want and I do what I want. I won't even bother pointing out that the law here says you're wrong. |
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The blind entitlement and childish vindictiveness, such as it is, is mildly humorous. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I hate gouging scumbags. I make a mental note of the ones that do it and refuse to shop there ever again. There are places I still won't buy at since Gloria back in 1985. Seriously? Have you even thought this through ? Seriously? Have you even thought this through? Christ! It's like pulling teeth for some of you to get over your mental problems. I never said it should be made illegal. Just that I'm not doing business with them, so get over yourself. Think of it as me putting them on Ignore. You're no better than the Democrats when you act that way. |
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Not as entertaining as the "Do it my way or I'll pout." attitude that so many posters have. Only one side in this conversation keeps trying to tell the other what to think and do. Very childish indeed. You're no better than the Democrats when you act that way. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I hate gouging scumbags. I make a mental note of the ones that do it and refuse to shop there ever again. There are places I still won't buy at since Gloria back in 1985. Seriously? Have you even thought this through ? Seriously? Have you even thought this through? Christ! It's like pulling teeth for some of you to get over your mental problems. I never said it should be made illegal. Just that I'm not doing business with them, so get over yourself. Think of it as me putting them on Ignore. You're no better than the Democrats when you act that way. Democrats are the biggest proponents of anti-gouging laws. |
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Except that's not what's happened in this instance. The "OMG Gougers" side has made it such that it's their way only. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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You do what you want and I do what I want. I haven't tried to get anyone to join my way of thinking. A lot of others can't say the same thing. |
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Yep it's legal, if highly distasteful. But it didn't matter for me, anyway. I was over 3/4 tank of gas and decided to top off. The gas station couldn't handle all the pumps at once and after 10 minutes of filling, my pump had only gotten to $1.09 charged. I gave up and went home.
I don't forgive price gougers. I will not shop at Cheaperthanhavingasoul. |
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I'm so confused. Democrats are the biggest proponents of anti-gouging laws. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I hate gouging scumbags. I make a mental note of the ones that do it and refuse to shop there ever again. There are places I still won't buy at since Gloria back in 1985. Seriously? Have you even thought this through ? Seriously? Have you even thought this through? Christ! It's like pulling teeth for some of you to get over your mental problems. I never said it should be made illegal. Just that I'm not doing business with them, so get over yourself. Think of it as me putting them on Ignore. You're no better than the Democrats when you act that way. Democrats are the biggest proponents of anti-gouging laws. I am not talking about a specific position. I am talking about how people act if you don't follow their Group Think ideas. The nail that sticks up and all that. |
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Noni just find it funny when someone is telling individuals that they should be better prepared then goes on to whine how poor business guy has to charge more now because they failed to prepare by having a better business model. I have had a hurricane prep kit in every home I've lived in for over 25 years now and have 20 gallons of fuel in cans that I rotate through and last night I filled up 15 gallons of water in containers at the house for drinking just so I don't have to touch the bottles unless this goes for a long haul. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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So you as the customer want to pay more than you have to ALL THE TIME to subsidize the store owner during an emergency? Sounds like it would be easier just to buy a few gallons of gas and case of water ahead of time. I have had a hurricane prep kit in every home I've lived in for over 25 years now and have 20 gallons of fuel in cans that I rotate through and last night I filled up 15 gallons of water in containers at the house for drinking just so I don't have to touch the bottles unless this goes for a long haul. |
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Isn't that my right? Why should I give a flying fuck what anyone else thinks? You do what you want and I do what I want. I won't even bother pointing out that the law here says you're wrong. View Quote I think it's important to point out that the business is actually behaving in a moral way. And while you have the right to boycott them, I also have the right to try to convince others that would agree with you that the business is still performing an important service. Hence why I responded to you. But like you said, we aren't talking specifics at all here. It's all generalities. So you might have a situation in your head that's different from mine. |
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Yep it's legal, if highly distasteful. But it didn't matter for me, anyway. I was over 3/4 tank of gas and decided to top off. The gas station couldn't handle all the pumps at once and after 10 minutes of filling, my pump had only gotten to $1.09 charged. I gave up and went home. I don't forgive price gougers. I will not shop at Cheaperthanhavingasoul. View Quote I'd prefer the brick and mortar stores make the money on their merchandise. Not a Craigslist guy that buys their stock and then resells it. |
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I'm not seeing the big deal here.
Selling or leasing fuel, food, medicine or another necessity at an exorbitant or excessive price; or demanding an exorbitant or excessive price in connection with the sale or lease of fuel, food, medicine or another necessity. Last I checked Home Depot type generators are not a necessity, just something nice to have. If you really need to power that CPAP machine and can't afford that Yankee generator then go to a shelter. |
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Yep it's legal, if highly distasteful. But it didn't matter for me, anyway. I was over 3/4 tank of gas and decided to top off. The gas station couldn't handle all the pumps at once and after 10 minutes of filling, my pump had only gotten to $1.09 charged. I gave up and went home. I don't forgive price gougers. I will not shop at Cheaperthanhavingasoul. View Quote Obviously, the fact that the pumps weren't working isn't material to the discussion of price gouging. |
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I'm not seeing the big deal here. Selling or leasing fuel, food, medicine or another necessity at an exorbitant or excessive price; or demanding an exorbitant or excessive price in connection with the sale or lease of fuel, food, medicine or another necessity. Last I checked Home Depot type generators are not a necessity, just something nice to have. If you really need to power that CPAP machine and can't afford that Yankee generator then go to a shelter. View Quote So, apparently not everyone shares that opinion. Including some LE who apparently didn't have better things to do. |
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Nooooo! Let's just say I've had dealings with peeps from AK and I've found them a lot more wanting/needy than peeps from Texas. They honestly think that they should receive the same shipping service in their "get away from it all" hovel as those living in the lower 48. I had one guy that EMed me wondering where his gun part was, I looked it up and it was at his PO awaiting pick-up. Come to find out the fucker lived on a lake at least 75 miles from the nearest state road. Dead of Winter I guess they flew the mail in to the general store on the end of the lake. But yeah, it's my fault he did not hop on his fucking dog sled and mush his way to his PO. I took care of that problem, I just don't ship to AK anymore. Fuck-em', they can make their own damn gun parts when they break something. View Quote |
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I'd agree - generators are most certainly NOT necessities. Except that apparently some dude was arrested after IKE for selling generators out of his trailer at significant markup. So, apparently not everyone shares that opinion. Including some LE who apparently didn't have better things to do. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I'm not seeing the big deal here. Selling or leasing fuel, food, medicine or another necessity at an exorbitant or excessive price; or demanding an exorbitant or excessive price in connection with the sale or lease of fuel, food, medicine or another necessity. Last I checked Home Depot type generators are not a necessity, just something nice to have. If you really need to power that CPAP machine and can't afford that Yankee generator then go to a shelter. So, apparently not everyone shares that opinion. Including some LE who apparently didn't have better things to do. Now if John Law busted someone for selling generators then John's in the wrong.....It's not like the police have ever cornered the market on common sense. I wonder if they would take the same view on a truck load of toilet paper. |
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Opinion is a long way from being the law and to be frank I wonder on the validity of the Ike story in the first place. Link? I'd really like to read that one. Now if John Law busted someone for selling generators then John's in the wrong.....It's not like the police have ever cornered the market on common sense. I wonder if they would take the same view on a truck load of toilet paper. View Quote This is all I could find. Apparently it was Katrina and Mississippi. http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/11/01/in-praise-price-gouging.html If there was another instance in Texas related to Ike, I couldn't find it in a quick google. |
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You're right; business owners should charge $1000 per bottle of water the rest of the time to "prepare" for emergencies. View Quote |
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