User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 12:39:29 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But how will Kavanaguh vote.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 12:44:09 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It aint abandoned, someone had it. They are forcing a fifth amendment trap. Self incriminate yourself, or we steal your property. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Abandoned property is not really asset forfeiture. If nobody claims it, then it should go to the state (or finder). It isn't forfeited. Self incriminate yourself, or we steal your property. The police find expensive goodies laying around all of the time. They pick it up, log it in, put it in the evidence locker, and advertise their recovery of it on their websites, the bulletin board down in court and the local newspaper. "Hey, we found this thing. If it's yours, bring proof of ownership and we'll release it to you. Otherwise, we're selling it at public auction next month, and giving the money to the county general fund." It would only be a fifth amendment trap if it were something illegal to own in the first place. In those cases, they're forcing the abandonment. Are you really arguing that the police keeping something that is for people illegal to posses is theft? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 1:33:38 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are plenty of cases of cops inTN etc taking cash from non drug dealers. Couldnt we have used one of those cases?? I mean like the guy on his way to buy a car private party or those guys goong to buy a convinece store from other indians etc This is about whether the 8th Amendment's prohibition on cruel and excessive punishment applies to the states in the context of the seizure of a $40,000 asset as part of the penalty for having possession and selling of $400 in prohibited substances. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 1:39:54 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Except when it is found or abandoned property. The police find expensive goodies laying around all of the time. They pick it up, log it in, put it in the evidence locker, and advertise their recovery of it on their websites, the bulletin board down in court and the local newspaper. "Hey, we found this thing. If it's yours, bring proof of ownership and we'll release it to you. Otherwise, we're selling it at public auction next month, and giving the money to the county general fund." It would only be a fifth amendment trap if it were something illegal to own in the first place. In those cases, they're forcing the abandonment. Are you really arguing that the police keeping something that is for people illegal to posses is theft? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 1:42:56 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This case is going to result in the 8th Amend finally being incorporated to the States. The value of the vehicle seized was 4x the maximum fine for the crime committed Everyone else can go back to arguing about asset forfeiture, which isn't going to go away no matter what SCOTUS decides in THIS case. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 8:45:19 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No shit. It's also a seizure, which is why saying "Any asset seizure before getting found guilty in a courtroom is wrong." is stupid. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Cocaine is not an asset. Cocaine is an illegal substance, subject to immediate seizure. You just contradicted yourself. If it’s evidence in a crime then it’s not an asset. A car in a hit-and-run case is evidence. The other car in the suspect’s garage is an asset. You shouldn’t be able to seize it without evidence it was involved in a crime or purchased with the proceeds of a crime. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 8:48:23 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had a client lose a Geo Metro 
WTF good is a $ 500 car? 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 8:53:32 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any asset seizure before getting found guilty in a courtroom is wrong. PS: Notice that they haven't gone after the Clinton's ill-gotten money . . . |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 9:15:01 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd fully pull the plug on that practice. It creates an incentive to prosecute people. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 9:22:47 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its not hard to get back. You go to court and show the judge where it came from. I mean, it is hard if you have a cash income that you havent been reporting for years. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: its my understanding is that they dont need to prosecute. they catch you with say 20,000$ in you pocket during a stop, they can say you'se gonna buy drugs with it or you just sold drugs. you are a drug kingpin, we gonna relieve you of you ill-gotten-gains. then it becomes really hard to get it back. fines should follow convictions sure, but they should not be able to confiscate stuff because they think you are a drug person (and i bet lots of times they use that for an excuse to confiscate money or cars that the local police would like to have)... 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 9:26:36 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any asset seizure before getting found guilty in a courtroom is wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm conflicted on asset seizure/forfeiture due to the widespread abuse. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 9:26:45 AM EDT
[#12]
"Civil asset forfeiture is such a farce that it took Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer only about 100 words to twist Indiana's solicitor general into admitting that his state could have the power to seize cars over something as insubstantial as driving 5 miles-per-hour over the speed limit."
https://reason.com/blog/2018/11/28/breyer-destroyed-civil-asset-forfeiture |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 9:30:32 AM EDT
[#13]
Can't trust government entities with anything other then their allowance and donation. Once you allow then free reign to bring in funds by their authority it will immediately be abused. Sad but true
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 9:45:38 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have no issues of them seizing assets after someone has been prosecuted and found guilty of said crime. But to seize assets before is nothing more than theft by govt Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm conflicted on asset seizure/forfeiture due to the widespread abuse. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 9:53:00 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any asset seizure before getting found guilty in a courtroom is wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm conflicted on asset seizure/forfeiture due to the widespread abuse. Civil asset forfeiture is garbage. It should be eradicated. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 9:58:24 AM EDT
[#16]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 9:59:54 AM EDT
[#17]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 10:40:41 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote History |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 10:42:12 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Asset seizure is a bullshit law all the way around. I hope the Indiana man wins. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 11:04:43 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm conflicted on asset seizure/forfeiture due to the widespread abuse. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 11:05:46 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had a client lose a Geo Metro
WTF good is a $ 500 car? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 11:07:44 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any asset seizure before getting found guilty in a courtroom is wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm conflicted on asset seizure/forfeiture due to the widespread abuse. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 11:14:40 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@Shenanigunz You just contradicted yourself. If it’s evidence in a crime then it’s not an asset. A car in a hit-and-run case is evidence. The other car in the suspect’s garage is an asset. You shouldn’t be able to seize it without evidence it was involved in a crime or purchased with the proceeds of a crime. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Cocaine is not an asset. Cocaine is an illegal substance, subject to immediate seizure. You just contradicted yourself. If it’s evidence in a crime then it’s not an asset. A car in a hit-and-run case is evidence. The other car in the suspect’s garage is an asset. You shouldn’t be able to seize it without evidence it was involved in a crime or purchased with the proceeds of a crime. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 11:29:35 AM EDT
[#24]
Without due process it’s thievery. After? Well, be smart
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 11:51:42 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
https://www.wowo.com/supreme-court-weighs-constitutional-case-on-excessive-fines The Supreme Court is taking up the case of an Indiana man who says the Constitution should have barred local authorities from seizing his $40,000 Land Rover after his arrest for selling less than $400 in heroin to undercover officers. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 11:55:53 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If they have the evidence necessary to demonstrate that he paid for the Land Rover with the proceeds of his illegal activity, I have zero issue with it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 11:58:01 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's so fucking ridiculous, I have to assume you have no idea of what you're talking about. How does law enforcement secure the evidence necessary to garner conviction if they can't seize it? "Well, your honor, we found a kilo of cocaine in the defendant's possession, but since we couldn't seize until after he was convicted, we asked him to bring it to court today. We were shocked when he failed to produce the cocaine, and then testified that he has never seen cocaine before in his entire life." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm conflicted on asset seizure/forfeiture due to the widespread abuse. How does law enforcement secure the evidence necessary to garner conviction if they can't seize it? "Well, your honor, we found a kilo of cocaine in the defendant's possession, but since we couldn't seize until after he was convicted, we asked him to bring it to court today. We were shocked when he failed to produce the cocaine, and then testified that he has never seen cocaine before in his entire life." |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 11:59:04 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dunno how the US works but you need to get a criminal conviction combined with a balance of evidence test to seize a asset. The state can 'impound 'assets until that convition BUT an acquittal results in compensation for the time/money you lost due your assets being unavailble. I personaly believe the state should prove the asset in question was bought with money from crime so i dont agree with the rules of evidence of the Dutch system. In before the Neck Tat Cop |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 11:59:52 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Defending yourself in court is expensive, even more so when the authorities steal everything you own. Unless they are repossessing obvious, traceable, proven stolen property or an illegal object/substance like that nuke you pocket carry, any asset forfeiture prior to conviction should be grounds for a 4th amendment violation. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 12:06:36 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thank you for actually pointing out what this case is about. Everyone else can go back to arguing about asset forfeiture, which isn't going to go away no matter what SCOTUS decides in THIS case. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This case is going to result in the 8th Amend finally being incorporated to the States. The value of the vehicle seized was 4x the maximum fine for the crime committed Everyone else can go back to arguing about asset forfeiture, which isn't going to go away no matter what SCOTUS decides in THIS case. ETA: To be clear, this is a pet peeve for me. Back when all this asset seizure started I was in my early 20s. I had a break-in that resulted in a pretty large loss (stereo equipment, TVs, guitars). An officer and an investigator show up and I begin listing my stolen property. First the investigator asked if I was insured, then he began questioning where these things came from. I had a file box in the closet with warranty papers and receipts for the new stuff. Semi-satisfied that I wasn't padding the claim for insurance fraud he moved on. He then wanted to know how I had paid for them. "I have been working my tail off since I was a teenager," wasn't a satisfying answer. Suddenly, I had gone from victim to potential criminal, with lots of nice stuff (expensive sports cars, since instead of going to bars I bought, restored and flipped them. If you want the best price you show up with cash...) still left to |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 12:33:44 PM EDT
[#31]
I wonder if this will have any effects on the shakedowns outside of Nashville and the like.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 12:40:28 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's so fucking ridiculous, I have to assume you have no idea of what you're talking about. How does law enforcement secure the evidence necessary to garner conviction if they can't seize it? "Well, your honor, we found a kilo of cocaine in the defendant's possession, but since we couldn't seize until after he was convicted, we asked him to bring it to court today. We were shocked when he failed to produce the cocaine, and then testified that he has never seen cocaine before in his entire life." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm conflicted on asset seizure/forfeiture due to the widespread abuse. How does law enforcement secure the evidence necessary to garner conviction if they can't seize it? "Well, your honor, we found a kilo of cocaine in the defendant's possession, but since we couldn't seize until after he was convicted, we asked him to bring it to court today. We were shocked when he failed to produce the cocaine, and then testified that he has never seen cocaine before in his entire life." You are either being intentionally obtuse or you have no fucking clue what asset forfeiture is. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 12:47:22 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its not hard to get back. You go to court and show the judge where it came from. I mean, it is hard if you have a cash income that you havent been reporting for years. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: its my understanding is that they dont need to prosecute. they catch you with say 20,000$ in you pocket during a stop, they can say you'se gonna buy drugs with it or you just sold drugs. you are a drug kingpin, we gonna relieve you of you ill-gotten-gains. then it becomes really hard to get it back. fines should follow convictions sure, but they should not be able to confiscate stuff because they think you are a drug person (and i bet lots of times they use that for an excuse to confiscate money or cars that the local police would like to have)... https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/09/policing-for-profit-in-philadelphia-finally-comes-to-an-end/570622/ |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 12:48:43 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm conflicted on asset seizure/forfeiture due to the widespread abuse. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 12:52:48 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Asset seizure is a bullshit law all the way around. I hope the Indiana man wins. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 10:12:58 PM EDT
[#36]
Until you prove yourself innocent, everything is evidence.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 10:29:09 PM EDT
[#37]
Thought for sure it would have taken place in the state of seizures Tennessee.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2018 10:58:16 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thought for sure it would have taken place in the state of seizures Tennessee. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/8/2018 8:57:58 PM EDT
[#39]
How long till the supreme court rules on these cases?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2019 1:41:05 AM EDT
[#40]
Bump
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2019 1:59:54 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's so fucking ridiculous, I have to assume you have no idea of what you're talking about. How does law enforcement secure the evidence necessary to garner conviction if they can't seize it? "Well, your honor, we found a kilo of cocaine in the defendant's possession, but since we couldn't seize until after he was convicted, we asked him to bring it to court today. We were shocked when he failed to produce the cocaine, and then testified that he has never seen cocaine before in his entire life." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm conflicted on asset seizure/forfeiture due to the widespread abuse. How does law enforcement secure the evidence necessary to garner conviction if they can't seize it? "Well, your honor, we found a kilo of cocaine in the defendant's possession, but since we couldn't seize until after he was convicted, we asked him to bring it to court today. We were shocked when he failed to produce the cocaine, and then testified that he has never seen cocaine before in his entire life." |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2019 2:42:44 AM EDT
[#42]
I think if they seize your assets prior to trial there should be some set standard. You can't just say "crime" because you could lose your vehicle if guilty of speeding.
However if not convicted, your car keys/cash/assets should be waiting for you when you leave the courthouse, not filing a bunch of paperwork to request it's return. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2019 2:46:35 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's pretty fucked up |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
