User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
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Posted: 4/10/2019 7:25:03 PM EDT
[#1]
We just need more immigrants to help pay for the pensions.
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Posted: 4/10/2019 7:25:06 PM EDT
[#2]
Pensions are a good thing and can work perfectly...
Buuuuut...they are fully reliant on clear headed and honest people to run them as well as a hard firewall to keep pension money separate from the general fund IE pension money can't be used for anything else. Plus, the defined benefits can't be a vote buying scam... That's the rub. They require honest people to run them. It is contrary to an electoral system where you can buy votes and be out of office before the bill comes due. So, pensions are great and can work...but maybe not in current day America. |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 7:28:26 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Laughs in maxed out 401k and Roth |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 7:32:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yet people scream "Death Panel" if someone is denied every possible procedure...... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Well, yes, there is that. 
It also has to do with better nutrition, but more importantly it also implicates Americans morbid fear of death. FFS, if you're 85yo and have three terminal diseases, go to fucking hospice and die with dignity, don't make the taxpayers spend $1,000,000 of Medicare-money to eke out another six months of life.  If you haven't achieved all you wanted to achieve in life by age 85, you ain't gonna do it by age 86 either. |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 7:32:49 PM EDT
[#5]
GE has $93 Billion in pension liabilities, their market cap is $80 Billion. How will this work out for taxpayers?
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Posted: 4/10/2019 7:34:48 PM EDT
[#6]
Lets see,
1) compensate .gov employees for their low salaries by offering a good pension available pretty early. 2) Tie the pension payout to the highest salary paid to the employee 3) Push the salaries up into the "very generous" category. ..then wonder why you can't afford the pensions.. |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 7:36:01 PM EDT
[#7]
Public pensions are just another method for politicians to get more government with borrowed money.
Hooray!
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Posted: 4/10/2019 7:39:08 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is the real issue. Properly funded pensions are expensive. Politicians like to promise more than they can pay and it catches up with them in time. |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 7:41:35 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lets see, 1) compensate .gov employees for their low salaries by offering a good pension available pretty early. 2) Tie the pension payout to the highest salary paid to the employee 3) Push the salaries up into the "very generous" category. ..then wonder why you can't afford the pensions.. |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 7:47:21 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Death panels need to become a thing. We have a housewife patient at work who has a bill in the TENS OF MILLIONS WITH ZERO CHANCE OF RECOVERY. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Well, yes, there is that.
It also has to do with better nutrition, but more importantly it also implicates Americans morbid fear of death. FFS, if you're 85yo and have three terminal diseases, go to fucking hospice and die with dignity, don't make the taxpayers spend $1,000,000 of Medicare-money to eke out another six months of life. If you haven't achieved all you wanted to achieve in life by age 85, you ain't gonna do it by age 86 either. |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 7:48:43 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
GE has $93 Billion in pension liabilities, their market cap is $80 Billion. How will this work out for taxpayers? |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 7:54:03 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lets see, 1) compensate .gov employees for their low salaries by offering a good pension available pretty early. 2) Tie the pension payout to the highest salary paid to the employee 3) Push the salaries up into the "very generous" category. ..then wonder why you can't afford the pensions.. Now jobs that used to pay pretty low but had a defined benefit plan now pay fairly well and still have the same plan. The local PD starting salary is around $50k and local FD is around $60k. Most of the FF's and cops I know that have any time on the job are pushing $100k per year and still have a pretty sweet pension plan. Maybe that's why when the local FD hires they'll get 1000 applicants for two or three positions. I'm sure there are some smart people here that could run the numbers. How much would have to be contributed using average rate of return for a guy that worked for 25 years and retires with an $80k per year pension and lives for another 30 years? From my small brained point of view the biggest issue is no matter what the job there is no way it's sustainable to pay someone for 30+ years for doing nothing. |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 8:00:59 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Laughs in maxed out |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 8:04:16 PM EDT
[#14]
It's all a scam, plain and simple.
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Posted: 4/10/2019 8:04:48 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is the real issue. Properly funded pensions are expensive. Politicians like to promise more than they can pay and it catches up with them in time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Throw on top of that, they didn't put enough into the system to begin with and you have a disaster. Nothing like cutting off your nose to spite your face. |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 8:10:58 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FIFY Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Laughs in maxed out 
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Posted: 4/10/2019 8:40:53 PM EDT
[#17]
Alabama's state retirement system is as solid as a rock! We lucked into a guy name David Bonner back in the 70s and he has done a phenomenal job. Fun fact, did you know that the Alabama State Retirement System owns the largest office building in New York City? RSA 1 Towers. Plus the Robert Trent Jones Golf Trail and miles of Gulf Coast beach. I put my time in and I'll draw my pennies now and I'm fortunate to have worked under a honest system. Of course, every year we have to fight the legislature because they want to borrow our money and promise to pay it back later hahaha. Us Southern Boys ain't as dumb as some of y'all think :-)
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Posted: 4/10/2019 8:48:41 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's the issue I see not only locally but a lot of other places. Now jobs that used to pay pretty low but had a defined benefit plan now pay fairly well and still have the same plan. The local PD starting salary is around $50k and local FD is around $60k. Most of the FF's and cops I know that have any time on the job are pushing $100k per year and still have a pretty sweet pension plan. Maybe that's why when the local FD hires they'll get 1000 applicants for two or three positions. I'm sure there are some smart people here that could run the numbers. How much would have to be contributed using average rate of return for a guy that worked for 25 years and retires with an $80k per year pension and lives for another 30 years? From my small brained point of view the biggest issue is no matter what the job there is no way it's sustainable to pay someone for 30+ years for doing nothing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Lets see, 1) compensate .gov employees for their low salaries by offering a good pension available pretty early. 2) Tie the pension payout to the highest salary paid to the employee 3) Push the salaries up into the "very generous" category. ..then wonder why you can't afford the pensions.. Now jobs that used to pay pretty low but had a defined benefit plan now pay fairly well and still have the same plan. The local PD starting salary is around $50k and local FD is around $60k. Most of the FF's and cops I know that have any time on the job are pushing $100k per year and still have a pretty sweet pension plan. Maybe that's why when the local FD hires they'll get 1000 applicants for two or three positions. I'm sure there are some smart people here that could run the numbers. How much would have to be contributed using average rate of return for a guy that worked for 25 years and retires with an $80k per year pension and lives for another 30 years? From my small brained point of view the biggest issue is no matter what the job there is no way it's sustainable to pay someone for 30+ years for doing nothing. 7.5% investment return rate  Attached File2% investment return rate  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 8:54:41 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Disagree |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 9:21:56 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When do I reach that "Very Generous" category? This pretty much sums up the view of the world from my friends from college who will soon be collecting six figure pensions along with healthcare for life. They are living the 1% lifestyle but they truly believe they gave up big money to stay in government. Why didn't I listen to them 25 years ago and take a government job???? Biggest financial and lifestyle mistake I have ever made! |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 9:25:56 PM EDT
[#21]
LOL! Some of you guys are dripping with hate and/or jealousy. Yup, it's a pyramid scheme but calling for the benefactors to be killed by being herded into gas chambers? WOW!!! I won't tell you how much of a pension I get. You'd be at my front door with a torch before the night was over.
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Posted: 4/10/2019 9:31:05 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Simple model that assumes a flat payment. Inflation will reduce your purchasing power. 7.5% investment return rate https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/200878/EA279983-049D-4BCB-AF33-3A38D6709D67_jpeg-908413.JPG 2% investment return rate https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/200878/1FCCB0C0-662F-4670-82E6-9A7CCCB1D7B7_jpeg-908412.JPG |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 9:39:43 PM EDT
[#23]
The hilarious part of the story is that people actually think politicians and bureaucrats will manage money effectively.
Fiscally responsible organizations began moving from Defined Benefit to Defined Contribution retirement plans back in the late '70s and early '80s. |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 10:00:14 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL! Some of you guys are dripping with hate and/or jealousy. Yup, it's a pyramid scheme but calling for the benefactors to be killed by being herded into gas chambers? WOW!!! I won't tell you how much of a pension I get. You'd be at my front door with a torch before the night was over. I can speak to the system in PA that is approaching an $80 billion deficit. Folks who worked in the system contributed approximately 6.5% of their salary to the pension (the contributions are fully refundable with a 4% bump) and they received 2.5% of their highest three years salary times years of service. Healthcare too. I beleive that the PSP, judges, and elected officials receive more. Maybe 3%. The math does not work. Though I beleive that new hires are not receiving the old deal. Before our Republican governor and our legislature passed the 25%+ retroactive bump in the pensions in the early 2000s (since the market always goes up 20+% per year) PA had a $4 billion pension surplus. When they had the midnight vote to increase pensions one of the selling points was that the pension managers are so good and the market is so strong that the state will not have to pay a penny more and in fact the fund managers are so good that the state can even reduce contributions from the current levels and still be able to meet future obligations. So why not bump the pensions? Now the cry from AFSCME and the other government unions is that the pensions will be fine if the state would just contribute their "fair share". What a beautiful bull shit scheme that worked! |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 10:13:45 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I admire your thorough rebut. Public unions (well, all unions) are leeches. We need to get rid of Executive Order 10988. Just because you are a federal worker you still need to plan for your own retirement like everyone else. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Disagree |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 10:26:40 PM EDT
[#26]
Anyone who has a pension would be wise to take their cash value now
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Posted: 4/10/2019 10:49:14 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Alabama's state retirement system is as solid as a rock! We lucked into a guy name David Bonner back in the 70s and he has done a phenomenal job. Fun fact, did you know that the Alabama State Retirement System owns the largest office building in New York City? RSA 1 Towers. Plus the Robert Trent Jones Golf Trail and miles of Gulf Coast beach. I put my time in and I'll draw my pennies now and I'm fortunate to have worked under a honest system. Of course, every year we have to fight the legislature because they want to borrow our money and promise to pay it back later hahaha. Us Southern Boys ain't as dumb as some of y'all think :-)  Attached FileIn 2018 the Retirement Systems of Alabama was $15.3 billion in the red and only 70.9 percent funded. The RSA invests more than 15 percent of its assets solely into the Alabama economy, mostly in equities, which is more than most other state-level retirement systems in the U.S., second perhaps only to the California Public Employees’ Retirement System. But policies aimed at priorities beyond the retirement security of state or local workers almost always backfire. A 2016 Troy University study found that disproportionate investments chosen based on their economic or social benefits (almost all of them are in-state investments)—have contributed to RSA’s asset under performance and severe pension under funding. |
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Posted: 4/11/2019 11:45:17 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The two state retirement systems (TRS and ERS) have under performed their own benchmark of 7.5% for the last 10 and 17 year periods. See graph https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/60489/Capture_JPG-908578.JPG In 2018 the Retirement Systems of Alabama was $15.3 billion in the red and only 70.9 percent funded. The RSA invests more than 15 percent of its assets solely into the Alabama economy, mostly in equities, which is more than most other state-level retirement systems in the U.S., second perhaps only to the California Public Employees’ Retirement System. But policies aimed at priorities beyond the retirement security of state or local workers almost always backfire. A 2016 Troy University study found that disproportionate investments chosen based on their economic or social benefits (almost all of them are in-state investments)—have contributed to RSA’s asset under performance and severe pension under funding. |
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Posted: 4/12/2019 1:08:26 AM EDT
[#29]
The long bull market was never even within the same order of magnitude of being able to fix public pensions.
This is because elected officials handed off pension management to cronies who they knew would inflate expected returns, thus freeing up tax dollars for other shit (some of which naturally would end up back in the pockets of those officials and their friends, family, and lackeys) |
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Posted: 4/12/2019 1:13:36 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Laughs in maxed out 401k and Roth |
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Posted: 4/12/2019 1:25:03 AM EDT
[#31]
In the end there are more voters than pensioners, I'm afraid they will get screwed in the future.
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Posted: 4/12/2019 11:12:02 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In the end there are more voters than pensioners, I'm afraid they will get screwed in the future.
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Posted: 4/12/2019 4:11:57 PM EDT
[#33]
The biggest problem is most funds are estimated using an actuarial calculation for the amount that needs to be funded by the plan sponsor. These rosy forecasts never hold up in reality. The DJI returned roughly 9.5% / year including all corporate actions since inception. When managing a plan that takes in cash and pays it out you can never achieve the optimal return. That discount is a liquidity premium which is always underestimated because it would lead to larger payments by the sponsor. On anniversaries the fund is trued between actual returns and the actuarial returns. That’s when a lot of people in government say wtf the market isn’t good for us or those asshole hedge fund managers took all the money. The search for alpha continues but the real answer is adequate funding and more realistic payouts. Moreover a lot of these shortfalls are for the cash component of the retirement fund. If you think there in bad shape take a look at the retiree healthcare funds—eek. No one really likes living in reality.
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Posted: 4/12/2019 4:21:19 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pensions backed by tax dollars shouldn't fucking exist. Neither should public sector unions. |
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Posted: 4/12/2019 5:14:21 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We just need more immigrants to help pay for the pensions. |
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Posted: 4/12/2019 5:44:44 PM EDT
[#36]
The ( pension ) promises are NOT REDEEMABLE.
There is insufficient liquid WEALTH to hand out even 10 percent of what has been promised. There will come a time of suckage, and in that time many will go hungry, medicine will be rationed, and a great number of retired, sick and elderly people will die cold, hungry and in the dark. |
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Posted: 4/12/2019 10:26:49 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, yes, there is that.
It also has to do with better nutrition, but more importantly it also implicates Americans morbid fear of death. FFS, if you're 85yo and have three terminal diseases, go to fucking hospice and die with dignity, don't make the taxpayers spend $1,000,000 of Medicare-money to eke out another six months of life. If you haven't achieved all you wanted to achieve in life by age 85, you ain't gonna do it by age 86 either.Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
retirees are living much longer than before, the days of retiring at 65 and dying at 72 have been replaced with retiring at 65 and dying at 90. Low interest rates hurt too, tremendously. Pensions cannot be invested solely in stocks; they rely on a certain level of interest income that we haven't seen in over 10 years.
It also has to do with better nutrition, but more importantly it also implicates Americans morbid fear of death. FFS, if you're 85yo and have three terminal diseases, go to fucking hospice and die with dignity, don't make the taxpayers spend $1,000,000 of Medicare-money to eke out another six months of life. If you haven't achieved all you wanted to achieve in life by age 85, you ain't gonna do it by age 86 either.So of course they’re gonna keep that magic money machine going as long as possible. |
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Posted: 4/12/2019 10:31:25 PM EDT
[#38]
I'll guarantee to pay you someone else's money if you sign this contract.
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Posted: 4/12/2019 10:31:29 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The next recession, whenever it happens, is going to be brutal and break the pension system Watch and see. |
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Posted: 4/12/2019 10:35:52 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
GE has $93 Billion in pension liabilities, their market cap is $80 Billion. How will this work out for taxpayers? It’s the Public pensions which will hurt the taxpayers the most. A lot of them are “guaranteed by the State Constitution” (whatever that means). |
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Posted: 4/12/2019 10:38:50 PM EDT
[#41]
I wouldn’t worry. They can just raise the tax rates and age on our 401ks. That’ll fix it.
No one needs a million dollars when they’re 65 anyway. |
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Posted: 4/12/2019 10:38:55 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When do I reach that "Very Generous" category? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Lets see, 1) compensate .gov employees for their low salaries by offering a good pension available pretty early. 2) Tie the pension payout to the highest salary paid to the employee 3) Push the salaries up into the "very generous" category. ..then wonder why you can't afford the pensions.. |
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Posted: 4/12/2019 10:48:29 PM EDT
[#43]
The real problem is the recent idea that people should stop working 15-40 years before they die. Five is probably about right. Hard duty work will eventually have to transition to light duty. This will likely happen in public and private sectors.
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Posted: 4/12/2019 10:53:06 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wrong. They will get “bailed out” and it will break our whole Nation. (eventually). Watch and see. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The next recession, whenever it happens, is going to be brutal and break the pension system Watch and see. 
 Attached File |
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Posted: 4/12/2019 11:15:18 PM EDT
[#45]
It does not help if its that underfunded
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Posted: 4/12/2019 11:55:02 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The real problem is the recent idea that people should stop working 15-40 years before they die. Five is probably about right. Hard duty work will eventually have to transition to light duty. This will likely happen in public and private sectors. |
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Posted: 4/13/2019 12:50:27 AM EDT
[#47]
Who cares. Climate change is gonna kill us all in 12 years.
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Posted: 4/13/2019 12:51:02 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pensions backed by tax dollars shouldn't fucking exist. Neither should public sector unions. |
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Posted: 4/13/2019 1:31:30 AM EDT
[#49]
The taxpayers did their part - start cutting benefits to match the money in the fund...
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Posted: 4/13/2019 1:48:22 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
retirees are living much longer than before, the days of retiring at 65 and dying at 72 have been replaced with retiring at 65 and dying at 90. Low interest rates hurt too, tremendously. Pensions cannot be invested solely in stocks; they rely on a certain level of interest income that we haven't seen in over 10 years. If they don't want to postpone their retirement & draw their pension later then they'll have to; find another job; live off social security; get a reverse mortgage; have their kids subsidize them; or come up with another solution... |
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