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Posted: 12/19/2020 9:58:09 PM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 12/19/2020 10:15:19 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s not what you said. You said SBR. If I take one of my SBRs out of its NFA configuration, it’s no longer an SBR until I build it back. Now you’re talking about Title 1 classifications. That’s a completely different cup of tea. No, I'm talking about what kinda of lower is being SBR'd. A pistol lower or rifle lower. Huge freaking difference. Until the ATF provides clarity, I would avoid their free cheese at all costs. It would suck to THINK you are SBR'ing a pistol lower for free, only to find out that they said you SBR'd a rifle lower, because your weapon was ALWAYS a rifle based their "logic"...even if it had a brace. They need to be clear on that. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 11:07:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, I'm talking about what kinda of lower is being SBR'd. A pistol lower or rifle lower. Huge freaking difference. Until the ATF provides clarity, I would avoid their free cheese at all costs. It would suck to THINK you are SBR'ing a pistol lower for free, only to find out that they said you SBR'd a rifle lower, because your weapon was ALWAYS a rifle based their "logic"...even if it had a brace. They need to be clear on that. I see now. You are misunderstanding basic firearms law. “Pistol” lowers are not even a legal category. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 11:47:18 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not really. Quote HistoryQuoted: Not really. It absolutely was, your statement was "NO ONE DOES IT" Your wrong - simple concept I bet for the few you do know, 10 times as many and probably allot more don't. for every ONE pistol in exsistence that gets carried daily I bet there are 1 MILLION that never get carried , what the HELL is your point? do you have one ? what the hell does use of a weapon have to do with this? Let’s face it everyone who honestly didn’t see this coming were as blind as Stevie Wonder. Hell most AR owners rarely shoot them. The BATF opened the door, they said it was legal? not sure the point here either? So you are saying we should forsee the BATF changing the law that they made... OK what other laws should we see coming - Im sorry I dont see your point here either - So everyone should live their life based on what laws the Govt MIGHT make or change, is that your point? Should we stop buying Semi Autos because it looks like they will ban them, how about mags ? Sorry I dont get this point either, as a general rule I dont live my life waiting on what law will pass or which ones will change! When I cross state lines I actually take a 14.5” pinned anyway, it’s the truck rifle anyway. Carrying loaded, I prefer a pistol as well I can actually carry it concealed and I do t worry about hiding it my truck along with a my truck rifle. Why do I care what you carry ? You do you. I dont even know what the second sentence means! "Carrying loaded" Who carrys UNLOADED? You prefer a pistol to carry loaded ? I assume most people do. What the hell would you hide your carry gun in the truck with your truck gun for. So yea, it’s a blah, blah, blah statement. On THIS we absolutely agree, your statement is definately that. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 11:56:17 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve tried numerous and always go back to a pinned 14.5” I’m not carrying it on me, and I’m clearing houses. Have you ever shot a AR inside a car? Why does what YOU prefer matter to ME? Does what I shoot matter to YOU? Ive shot ARs in cars shooting out, out shooting in, shooting through, over, under, and around As I have with pistols. What in the hell is your point with any of this? |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 11:57:59 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I live on the border of 3 states so a 10.5” 300blk pistol would be the perfect thing to throw in the duffel bag when I go to the cabin across state lines, if I owned such a thing. No according to him NO ONE does that so IF you owned one, You wouldnt be doing that anyway. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 12:39:46 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let's be honest here. If you have a brace on a pistol, you're already complying with an unjust law. BRAVO isnt it amazing how some forget all the laws they are following that are "UNJUST" regarding firearms |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 12:45:30 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nah. The government knows you are likely a gun owner. They don’t know what you have, unless you have registered your weapons. Especially down to the configuration and serial #. Sure I have a bunch of 4473s tied to me at various gun shops. I’m not worried that the ATF has seen those, because for the most part they haven’t. Regardless, I’ve traded, sold and bought so many times through private sales that no paperwork is relevant. I’m beginning to see a pattern. Guys who have registered are getting mad at those of us who haven’t. “Come on guys, just register your guns. It’s not bad and I’m sure they already know exactly what you have.” This, about the same government that can’t even keep NFA records straight. But they magically know what everyone in the US owns. Bullshit. I ain’t registering shit. And I’m not going to give a fuck when they come for the guns of those that did. Awesome - glad to know that you support firearms rights First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 12:52:35 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Awesome - glad to know that you support firearms rights First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. We're sopposed to intervene on someone turning themselves in? Especially on this site where we had one fudd threaten to shoot people over bump stocks? no thanks. enjoy . |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 12:52:40 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I see now. You are missing basic firearms law. “Pistol” lowers are not even a legal category. Handgun is.....same difference. My point still stands. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 12:54:08 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you have a concealed carry permit you are complying with an unjust law...shall not be infringed. If you have a hunting license you are complying with an unjust law If you don't have a vertical forearm on your pistol you are complying with an unjust law If you filled out a 4473 at an FFL,you are complying with an unjust law It all comes down to is not complying right now worth the consequences, or should you comply now so that when it kicks off you aren't behind bars and your family penniless between now and when it matters. This isn't a philosophy discussion on right or wrong, it is a pragmatic discussion. maybe it is just more pragmatic to just take off the damn brace until it's time to put it back on. Right now legal matters, someday legal may not matter and if that day comes maybe it would be better to not be behind bars when it does. Well said |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 12:55:36 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I see people keep mentioning that braces only existed to circumvent SBR laws. It's the other way around. SBR laws exist to circumvent the second amendment. SBR/SBS are a left over from when the tyrant trash traitors tried to ban handguns. Your second amendment rights do not begin or end based on barrel length or comfort in shooting. The whole thing is an arbitrary farce forced upon us by despots. Oh, You mean SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.....MEANS IT, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED? |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 1:14:24 AM EDT
[#13]
To add to the data points...
I legally carry AR pistols in my vehicle and on rare occasions have concealed my 7.5" AR pistol under my coat while visiting some hoods worse than mine. My children are all grown and have their AR pistols in their vehicles when they travel. We live in a tri-state area so there are state lines we must cross. I have many friends that do the same. So, yes, there are people that use the law to have their loaded AR pistols in their vehicles as well as to cross state lines. The claim that "NO ONE DOES IT" is positively absurd. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 1:25:51 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are missing the point, entirely. In my state it is not permissible to roll with anything loaded and ready to go unless it is a pistol and you have a CPL. It isn't about comfort under a jacket, or clearing rooms, or hearing safety. It's about having the most effective weapon as immediately accessible while staying inside the law. Don't be obtuse. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I have said this for years, the more they push the design to look and act like a regular stock the sooner they brought it on themselves, adjustable, folding “braces” were/are nothing more than a way to circumvent the NFA SBR. Now add you tube videos of them being shot like regular rifles and it was only a matter of time. I never bought into the brace, all my SBR’s are, NFA stamped. Sure there was the well I can carry loaded in my car, or I can cross state lines without getting permission, blah, blah, blah. Yet none of them ever did that.  Well thats pretty broad statement so I will make a more narrow one YOU are FOS here ! I personally know people that do, EVERY DAY. That is true. A 10.5 AR is my truck gun. I’ve tried numerous and always go back to a pinned 14.5” I’m not carrying it on me, and I’m clearing houses. Have you ever shot a AR inside a car? You are missing the point, entirely. In my state it is not permissible to roll with anything loaded and ready to go unless it is a pistol and you have a CPL. It isn't about comfort under a jacket, or clearing rooms, or hearing safety. It's about having the most effective weapon as immediately accessible while staying inside the law. Don't be obtuse. Not missing it at all, Washington is the same way. Guess what, I carried my G19 anyway. My truck gun is a pinned 14.5. I honestly don’t need more guns to worry about if my truck gets jacked. A AR pistol is going to just sit insecure. My actual truck gun is fully secured, any other gun won’t be, I’m not packing a AR pistol, if I’m going to secure a AR pistol, why not just secure a SBR? Your missing my point. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 1:29:47 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: True. Point taken. But the line must be drawn somewhere. Do you agree with my second statement? Complying will show them "you can keep it if you register it" works. They wont stop there. I don't even have a brace, btw. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yah well, you're still complying to an unjust law. Let's be honest here. If you have a brace on a pistol, you're already complying with an unjust law. True. Point taken. But the line must be drawn somewhere. Do you agree with my second statement? Complying will show them "you can keep it if you register it" works. They wont stop there. I don't even have a brace, btw. LMAO that was shown a LONG time ago when NFA went into effect then again when they allowed a "grandfather" and then AGAIN so its a little late and they didnt stop there. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 1:30:41 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fired mine from inside the garage. Once. That was a mistake I won't make twice. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’ve tried numerous and always go back to a pinned 14.5” I’m not carrying it on me, and I’m clearing houses. Have you ever shot a AR inside a car? Fired mine from inside the garage. Once. That was a mistake I won't make twice. Exactly, I won’t do it again either. That’s my point I’m not shooting a AR inside a vehicle again, I’m getting out so the loaded in a vehicle is moot. I’ll shoot my 9 inside if absolutely necessary but not just to shoot it, things have to be real dire. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 1:38:06 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Nah. The government knows you are likely a gun owner. They don’t know what you have, unless you have registered your weapons. Especially down to the configuration and serial #. Sure I have a bunch of 4473s tied to me at various gun shops. I’m not worried that the ATF has seen those, because for the most part they haven’t. Regardless, I’ve traded, sold and bought so many times through private sales that no paperwork is relevant. I’m beginning to see a pattern. Guys who have registered are getting mad at those of us who haven’t. “Come on guys, just register your guns. It’s not bad and I’m sure they already know exactly what you have.” This, about the same government that can’t even keep NFA records straight. But they magically know what everyone in the US owns. Bullshit. I ain’t registering shit. And I’m not going to give a fuck when they come for the guns of those that did. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/hellyeah-175.jpg Have you ever had a NICS check done? |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 1:46:40 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right. So literally hundreds of millions of people. A list that has everyone on it isn’t useful as a list at all. A list that has few people with specific info is very useful. It’s up to us which one we want to be on. ETA: take the rural area where I live. The “but muh 4473 list” is useless. Nearly every single household owns guns. Everyone knows that. They could just start going door to door. But they won’t. They’ll hit the easy, known to be compliant marks first. I see what you did there ....... |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 2:08:31 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why does what YOU prefer matter to ME? Does what I shoot matter to YOU? Ive shot ARs in cars shooting out, out shooting in, shooting through, over, under, and around As I have with pistols. What in the hell is your point with any of this? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’ve tried numerous and always go back to a pinned 14.5” I’m not carrying it on me, and I’m clearing houses. Have you ever shot a AR inside a car? Why does what YOU prefer matter to ME? Does what I shoot matter to YOU? Ive shot ARs in cars shooting out, out shooting in, shooting through, over, under, and around As I have with pistols. What in the hell is your point with any of this? Wow who pissed in your corn flakes. I simply stated I don’t carry a braced AR, I don’t conceal it so it’s a moot point. I conceal something concealable like my G19. I carry a actual truck rifle, I have it secured so if my truck gets jacked I’m not out more firearms. You seem to live in a fantasy your going into a gun battle. If I can’t settle a issue with my concealed pistol, chances are I will need my rifle anyway. I have shoot out of a vehicle with a AR and the ringing ears left me a ineffective shooter for long enough to be incapacitated. I guess your either deaf or Superman. Yes there are instances where it makes sense, it also depends on your state and neighbor states, try taking your braced AR into Cali or in my situation Canada. Your argument is based on emotion and not facts. Face it 90% of brace owners probably rarely shoot them, and they stay at home, very few of those sold actually get carried loaded in a car. I can’t carry a loaded rifle here in WA, guess what, I have a braced AR and to carry it loaded, my G19 and my truck gun was actually a pain in the ass, guess what, practicality over ruled and my braced pistol stayed at home in the safe. Face it your butt hurt, and I think it’s bullshit as well, I have even commented about it, it’s bullshit and I nicely pointed that out. In the end we wait and see, either way, the sun will still come up, and we will still go on. If it does pass it’s a chance to do a couple more SBR’s for cheap. The NFA is just one of many unjust firearm laws, hell CCW are a infringement, so is the NICS check, but this not going away. I can open carry in WA, I don’t as many areas the hassle isn’t worth it. You have to pick your battles, and try to pick winnable battles with personal experiance. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 2:42:24 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We're sopposed to intervene on someone turning themselves in? Especially on this site where we had one fudd threaten to shoot people over bump stocks? no thanks. enjoy . So you dont care if they infringe on the 2nd Amendment as long as your not involved. Got it...... |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 2:47:31 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote Historywell now you've involved the fudds. LOL. guess they had it coming. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 4:08:24 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: well now you've involved the fudds. LOL. guess they had it coming. Quote HistoryQuoted: well now you've involved the fudds. LOL. guess they had it coming. Good. Maybe they'll get off their ass when they finally realize it's not just the scary black rifles that the antis are after. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 4:29:50 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you ever had a NICS check done? I am in Illinois, and I have a carry permit. What do YOU think? |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 5:10:11 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe they'll get off their ass when they finally realize it's not just the scary black rifles that the antis are after. Wont happen So long as EBRs and mags over 10rds are targeted, they couldnt give a shit. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 5:15:46 AM EDT
[#25]
Why are so many people looking towards the past?
Registering your SBR? WTF? Are you Uncle Rico trying to get back to 1982? Again, technology has allowed AR pistols to make AR SBR's OBSOLETE. Why register ANYTHING when you can get similar performance without permission from the king? Take the next step. Why have a 4473 when you can make your own lower?  And honestly, even that pic is more "now" than the "future" because 3D printers are going to continue to get better and go super double brrrrr. Fuck a Form 1. Fuck a 4473 And eventually, fuck a credit card purchase trail. The only person that will know what I own is ME. Wake the hell up people, "free registration" is Dr Lexus tarded. It is not too late to not register any SBR ever again. FYI - I used a Poly80 pic specifically because they can break at certain spots quite a bit, thus ending up in the trash. Does this lower still exist? I cannot recall.  Oh....and you can't stop the signal. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 8:47:33 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are so many people looking towards the past? Registering your SBR? WTF? Are you Uncle Rico trying to get back to 1982? Again, technology has allowed AR pistols to make AR SBR's OBSOLETE. Why register ANYTHING when you can get similar performance without permission from the king? Take the next step. Why have a 4473 when you can make your own lower? https://i.imgur.com/QC64LQ5.jpg And honestly, even that pic is more "now" than the "future" because 3D printers are going to continue to get better and go super double brrrrr. Fuck a Form 1. Fuck a 4473 And eventually, fuck a credit card purchase trail. The only person that will know what I own is ME. Wake the hell up people, "free registration" is Dr Lexus tarded. It is not too late to not register any SBR ever again. FYI - I used a Poly80 pic specifically because they can break at certain spots quite a bit, thus ending up in the trash. Does this lower still exist? I cannot recall. Oh....and you can't stop the signal. Then why not put a stock on it? |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 8:49:05 AM EDT
[#27]
I checked this morning and there are over 4500 comments on the ATF site. Time
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Posted: 12/20/2020 9:06:07 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then why not put a stock on it? Because there's something called "existing in the real world". You can't 100% guarantee that a cop who pulls you over for a traffic stop or a game warden who encounters you at the trailhead will be on our side. Having an obvious pistol brace avoids unnecessary questions "Hey, is that an SBR? Got papers for that?" Lots of people say they've never been asked for papers for their NFA firearms; but that was in the past. There's going to be a LOT more attention pointed at SBRs now; more officer training as a result of the bright light; and so they WILL know about the NFA process and NFA forms needed to file to travel across state lines with a SBR now. Sucks, but it is what it is. EDIT: This is called "thinking ahead"; something that doesn't occur in the criminal class -- they commit all kinds of moving violations (driving recklessly, driving incredibly obvious broken vehicles with no headlights on one side) and then have criminal items out in the open such as open liquor containers, blunts, pistols across the dash, and then they wonder why the cops pulled them over and arrested them. If they had just driven conservatively, the cops would have overseen things like missing license plates (!) but by acting like idiots, they drew attention to themselves and got nailed. The same principle applies here. Nobody's sure what the status of P80 lowers will be in the future; and to be honest, a cop would have to be incredibly autistic to spot a P80 lower at any distance; but a pistol vs carbine stock is much more visually identifiable; and will draw their attention, at which point they'll see the rest of the details. Again, sucks, but it is what it is. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 9:15:18 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are so many people looking towards the past? Registering your SBR? WTF? Are you Uncle Rico trying to get back to 1982? Again, technology has allowed AR pistols to make AR SBR's OBSOLETE. Why register ANYTHING when you can get similar performance without permission from the king? Take the next step. Why have a 4473 when you can make your own lower? https://i.imgur.com/QC64LQ5.jpg And honestly, even that pic is more "now" than the "future" because 3D printers are going to continue to get better and go super double brrrrr. Fuck a Form 1. Fuck a 4473 And eventually, fuck a credit card purchase trail. The only person that will know what I own is ME. Wake the hell up people, "free registration" is Dr Lexus tarded. It is not too late to not register any SBR ever again. FYI - I used a Poly80 pic specifically because they can break at certain spots quite a bit, thus ending up in the trash. Does this lower still exist? I cannot recall. Oh....and you can't stop the signal. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 9:32:32 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because there's something called "existing in the real world". You can't 100% guarantee that a cop who pulls you over for a traffic stop or a game warden who encounters you at the trailhead will be on our side. Having an obvious pistol brace avoids unnecessary questions "Hey, is that an SBR? Got papers for that?" Lots of people say they've never been asked for papers for their NFA firearms; but that was in the past. There's going to be a LOT more attention pointed at SBRs now; more officer training as a result of the bright light; and so they WILL know about the NFA process and NFA forms needed to file to travel across state lines with a SBR now. Sucks, but it is what it is. EDIT: This is called "thinking ahead"; something that doesn't occur in the criminal class -- they commit all kinds of moving violations (driving recklessly, driving incredibly obvious broken vehicles with no headlights on one side) and then have criminal items out in the open such as open liquor containers, blunts, pistols across the dash, and then they wonder why the cops pulled them over and arrested them. If they had just driven conservatively, the cops would have overseen things like missing license plates (!) but by acting like idiots, they drew attention to themselves and got nailed. The same principle applies here. Nobody's sure what the status of P80 lowers will be in the future; and to be honest, a cop would have to be incredibly autistic to spot a P80 lower at any distance; but a pistol vs carbine stock is much more visually identifiable; and will draw their attention, at which point they'll see the rest of the details. Again, sucks, but it is what it is. Plus BATFE records are in such shambles that they've admitted that guns registered on the NFA aren't in their records. Local Police nor State Game Warden is going to call up BATFE HQ in WV to verify a Form 1 . Nothing stops someone from making fraudulent Form 1. With today's tech, it isn't hard to alter a scanned Form 1 and make it look like it was done for their gun and the local stopping them wouldn't know the damn difference. Your allegory to a traffic violation is wrong on this matter. You can drive conservatively and if you have an expired plate, a bust tail light, or other such. You'll still get pulled over and cited. That's what traffic guys do. BATFE has people abide by the law for two reaons. 1. The law abiding are law abiding. 2. Fear of being made the example. BATFE nor the US Government and all of its political subdivisions don't have the manpower and resources to control everyone. So they pressure people by fear. They focus the resources they do have on a select few and make it look like they're all powerful. No one wants to be the guy that's made the example. But if everyone, and I mean  Didn't following the law and practice Irish Democracy. BATFE nor the US Government and all of its political subdivisions would be powerless. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 9:33:21 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I checked this morning and there are over 4500 comments on the ATF site. Time @Unit650 Can you provide link ? I can't find it. 
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Posted: 12/20/2020 9:48:44 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because there's something called "existing in the real world". You can't 100% guarantee that a cop who pulls you over for a traffic stop or a game warden who encounters you at the trailhead will be on our side. Having an obvious pistol brace avoids unnecessary questions "Hey, is that an SBR? Got papers for that?" Lots of people say they've never been asked for papers for their NFA firearms; but that was in the past. There's going to be a LOT more attention pointed at SBRs now; more officer training as a result of the bright light; and so they WILL know about the NFA process and NFA forms needed to file to travel across state lines with a SBR now. Sucks, but it is what it is. EDIT: This is called "thinking ahead"; something that doesn't occur in the criminal class -- they commit all kinds of moving violations (driving recklessly, driving incredibly obvious broken vehicles with no headlights on one side) and then have criminal items out in the open such as open liquor containers, blunts, pistols across the dash, and then they wonder why the cops pulled them over and arrested them. If they had just driven conservatively, the cops would have overseen things like missing license plates (!) but by acting like idiots, they drew attention to themselves and got nailed. The same principle applies here. Nobody's sure what the status of P80 lowers will be in the future; and to be honest, a cop would have to be incredibly autistic to spot a P80 lower at any distance; but a pistol vs carbine stock is much more visually identifiable; and will draw their attention, at which point they'll see the rest of the details. Again, sucks, but it is what it is. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Then why not put a stock on it? Because there's something called "existing in the real world". You can't 100% guarantee that a cop who pulls you over for a traffic stop or a game warden who encounters you at the trailhead will be on our side. Having an obvious pistol brace avoids unnecessary questions "Hey, is that an SBR? Got papers for that?" Lots of people say they've never been asked for papers for their NFA firearms; but that was in the past. There's going to be a LOT more attention pointed at SBRs now; more officer training as a result of the bright light; and so they WILL know about the NFA process and NFA forms needed to file to travel across state lines with a SBR now. Sucks, but it is what it is. EDIT: This is called "thinking ahead"; something that doesn't occur in the criminal class -- they commit all kinds of moving violations (driving recklessly, driving incredibly obvious broken vehicles with no headlights on one side) and then have criminal items out in the open such as open liquor containers, blunts, pistols across the dash, and then they wonder why the cops pulled them over and arrested them. If they had just driven conservatively, the cops would have overseen things like missing license plates (!) but by acting like idiots, they drew attention to themselves and got nailed. The same principle applies here. Nobody's sure what the status of P80 lowers will be in the future; and to be honest, a cop would have to be incredibly autistic to spot a P80 lower at any distance; but a pistol vs carbine stock is much more visually identifiable; and will draw their attention, at which point they'll see the rest of the details. Again, sucks, but it is what it is. You missed my point. If braced pistols become considered SBRs, why build with a brace? |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 10:09:22 AM EDT
[#33]
Curious, has anyone addressed this hypothetical situation yet?
You own one of the many factory pistols sold with a brace. The ATF is "offering" you the "free" stamp to make it into an SBR. What about engraving? Factory engraving good to go? Do you need to get your info engraved, since it wasn't originally an SBR? Or does the ATF put their engraving on it, since they are the makers of the arbitrary and stupid decision? |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 10:09:57 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you're going to disobey the King's edict, why are you still following the law? Why not have a third pin and make it have a giggle switch? I actually have not disobeyed anything. I followed the rules, BS or not, and managed to have the same functionality without registering and without a 4473. Why VOLUNTARILY go the other way? Registering won’t get you a 3rd hole, so I don’t see your point. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 10:12:10 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I actually have not disobeyed anything. I followed the rules, BS or not, and managed to have the same functionality without registering and without a 4473. Why VOLUNTARILY go the other way? Registering won’t get you a 3rd hole, so I don’t see your point. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you're going to disobey the King's edict, why are you still following the law? Why not have a third pin and make it have a giggle switch? I actually have not disobeyed anything. I followed the rules, BS or not, and managed to have the same functionality without registering and without a 4473. Why VOLUNTARILY go the other way? Registering won’t get you a 3rd hole, so I don’t see your point. His point is in the context of the ATF proposal which could turn your braced pistol into an unregistered SBR. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 10:14:28 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In all my years I've never been requested to produce my Form 1s or Form 4s when I travel with my NFA items. I CCW a damn SBR'ed PS90 for Christ's sake and no one has ever requested for me to produce my paperwork on it. More training? LOL.... Locals and State Cops have no clue WTF NFA is. You think BATFE goes around to Po'Dunk Town PD and puts on a four hour class on NFA laws? No. Didn't happen, doesn't happen, and won't happen. They don't have the time, resources, nor manpower. The locals unless they're hardcore gun folks barely understand their own local and state laws let alone NFA. Plus BATFE records are in such shambles that they've admitted that guns registered on the NFA aren't in their records. Local Police nor State Game Warden is going to call up BATFE HQ in WV to verify a Form 1 . Nothing stops someone from making fraudulent Form 1. With today's tech, it isn't hard to alter a scanned Form 1 and make it look like it was done for their gun and the local stopping them wouldn't know the damn difference. Your allegory to a traffic violation is wrong on this matter. You can drive conservatively and if you have an expired plate, a bust tail light, or other such. You'll still get pulled over and cited. That's what traffic guys do. BATFE has people abide by the law for two reaons. 1. The law abiding are law abiding. 2. Fear of being made the example. BATFE nor the US Government and all of its political subdivisions don't have the manpower and resources to control everyone. So they pressure people by fear. They focus the resources they do have on a select few and make it look like they're all powerful. No one wants to be the guy that's made the example. But if everyone, and I mean https://media.tenor.com/images/ee0e4681215016a7c6b77d3a4c267588/tenor.gif Didn't following the law and practice Irish Democracy. BATFE nor the US Government and all of its political subdivisions would be powerless.  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 10:14:47 AM EDT
[#37]
I was going to buy a S&W 15-22 braced pistol, if i buy it now will it still be eligible for the free stamp? I was going to stamp it anyways.
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Posted: 12/20/2020 10:19:39 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Curious, has anyone addressed this hypothetical situation yet? You own one of the many factory pistols sold with a brace. The ATF is "offering" you the "free" stamp to make it into an SBR. What about engraving? Factory engraving good to go? Do you need to get your info engraved, since it wasn't originally an SBR? Or does the ATF put their engraving on it, since they are the makers of the arbitrary and stupid decision? I asked this a few pages back. "So they're waiving the $200 fee, but what about all the other BS requirements? Adding/needing a trust & fingerprints of everyone in it, requiring engraving, etc? They going to waive or pay for all that shit too? So fuckey. " Wasn't really addressed, probably because no one knows due to the ATF doesn't address it either. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 10:20:50 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You missed my point. If braced pistols become considered SBRs, why build with a brace? FWIW, I have NO IDEA. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 10:22:25 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was going to buy a S&W 15-22 braced pistol, if i buy it now will it still be eligible for the free stamp? I was going to stamp it anyways. NO. But being .22 and light it is likely to be still GTG with a brace and pistol scope or red dot IMO without a stamp. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 10:23:30 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I actually have not disobeyed anything. I followed the rules, BS or not, and managed to have the same functionality without registering and without a 4473. Why VOLUNTARILY go the other way? Registering won't get you a 3rd hole, so I don't see your point. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you're going to disobey the King's edict, why are you still following the law? Why not have a third pin and make it have a giggle switch? I actually have not disobeyed anything. I followed the rules, BS or not, and managed to have the same functionality without registering and without a 4473. Why VOLUNTARILY go the other way? Registering won't get you a 3rd hole, so I don't see your point. You posted "Why register ANYTHING when you can get similar performance without permission from the king?" Your post seems like you're sticking it to the man. When in reality what you're stating is you aren't sticking it to the man. You're just trying to follow his edicts and stay under the radar. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 10:26:59 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are so many people looking towards the past? Registering your SBR? WTF? Are you Uncle Rico trying to get back to 1982? Again, technology has allowed AR pistols to make AR SBR's OBSOLETE. Why register ANYTHING when you can get similar performance without permission from the king? Take the next step. Why have a 4473 when you can make your own lower? https://i.imgur.com/QC64LQ5.jpg And honestly, even that pic is more "now" than the "future" because 3D printers are going to continue to get better and go super double brrrrr. Fuck a Form 1. Fuck a 4473 And eventually, fuck a credit card purchase trail. The only person that will know what I own is ME. Wake the hell up people, "free registration" is Dr Lexus tarded. It is not too late to not register any SBR ever again. FYI - I used a Poly80 pic specifically because they can break at certain spots quite a bit, thus ending up in the trash. Does this lower still exist? I cannot recall. Oh....and you can't stop the signal. You have a FOID. Build all the 80% stuff you want, you’re still on a list. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 10:33:41 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You missed my point. If braced pistols become considered SBRs, why build with a brace? That is a big “if”. This letter is trying to scare people into registering legal pistols by not offering any clear guidelines on what a pistol is. I am pretty confident my braced pistols are pistols regardless, so this letter means nothing. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 10:40:28 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You posted "Why register ANYTHING when you can get similar performance without permission from the king?" Your post seems like you're sticking it to the man. When in reality what you're stating is you aren't sticking it to the man. You're just trying to follow his edicts and stay under the radar. The king wants you on his radar. The king loves it when you register. It is possible to do neither. It seems like you are saying that if you are not willing to drill a 3rd hole, you might as well register.....as if there is no space in between. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 10:41:15 AM EDT
[#45]
i have calmed down a bit about this madness BS ATF notice.
But still upset. reading more and more and thinking about it my GUESS is that many variants will be OK. for example a variant like this: 11.5 inch upper SBA3 brace 5.56 AR Red dot optic only. just a guess and time will tell. i base my guess on nothing in this variant abusing the use of a brace. weight seems OK caliber not large length seems OK optic can be used at arms length |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 10:45:25 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In all my years I've never been requested to produce my Form 1s or Form 4s when I travel with my NFA items. I CCW a damn SBR'ed PS90 for Christ's sake and no one has ever requested for me to produce my paperwork on it. More training? LOL.... Locals and State Cops have no clue WTF NFA is. You think BATFE goes around to Po'Dunk Town PD and puts on a four hour class on NFA laws? No. Didn't happen, doesn't happen, and won't happen. They don't have the time, resources, nor manpower. The locals unless they're hardcore gun folks barely understand their own local and state laws let alone NFA. Plus BATFE records are in such shambles that they've admitted that guns registered on the NFA aren't in their records. Local Police nor State Game Warden is going to call up BATFE HQ in WV to verify a Form 1 . Nothing stops someone from making fraudulent Form 1. With today's tech, it isn't hard to alter a scanned Form 1 and make it look like it was done for their gun and the local stopping them wouldn't know the damn difference. Your allegory to a traffic violation is wrong on this matter. You can drive conservatively and if you have an expired plate, a bust tail light, or other such. You'll still get pulled over and cited. That's what traffic guys do. BATFE has people abide by the law for two reaons. 1. The law abiding are law abiding. 2. Fear of being made the example. BATFE nor the US Government and all of its political subdivisions don't have the manpower and resources to control everyone. So they pressure people by fear. They focus the resources they do have on a select few and make it look like they're all powerful. No one wants to be the guy that's made the example. But if everyone, and I mean https://media.tenor.com/images/ee0e4681215016a7c6b77d3a4c267588/tenor.gif Didn't following the law and practice Irish Democracy. BATFE nor the US Government and all of its political subdivisions would be powerless. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Because there's something called "existing in the real world". You can't 100% guarantee that a cop who pulls you over for a traffic stop or a game warden who encounters you at the trailhead will be on our side. Having an obvious pistol brace avoids unnecessary questions "Hey, is that an SBR? Got papers for that?" Lots of people say they've never been asked for papers for their NFA firearms; but that was in the past. There's going to be a LOT more attention pointed at SBRs now; more officer training as a result of the bright light; and so they WILL know about the NFA process and NFA forms needed to file to travel across state lines with a SBR now. Sucks, but it is what it is. EDIT: This is called "thinking ahead"; something that doesn't occur in the criminal class -- they commit all kinds of moving violations (driving recklessly, driving incredibly obvious broken vehicles with no headlights on one side) and then have criminal items out in the open such as open liquor containers, blunts, pistols across the dash, and then they wonder why the cops pulled them over and arrested them. If they had just driven conservatively, the cops would have overseen things like missing license plates (!) but by acting like idiots, they drew attention to themselves and got nailed. The same principle applies here. Nobody's sure what the status of P80 lowers will be in the future; and to be honest, a cop would have to be incredibly autistic to spot a P80 lower at any distance; but a pistol vs carbine stock is much more visually identifiable; and will draw their attention, at which point they'll see the rest of the details. Again, sucks, but it is what it is. Plus BATFE records are in such shambles that they've admitted that guns registered on the NFA aren't in their records. Local Police nor State Game Warden is going to call up BATFE HQ in WV to verify a Form 1 . Nothing stops someone from making fraudulent Form 1. With today's tech, it isn't hard to alter a scanned Form 1 and make it look like it was done for their gun and the local stopping them wouldn't know the damn difference. Your allegory to a traffic violation is wrong on this matter. You can drive conservatively and if you have an expired plate, a bust tail light, or other such. You'll still get pulled over and cited. That's what traffic guys do. BATFE has people abide by the law for two reaons. 1. The law abiding are law abiding. 2. Fear of being made the example. BATFE nor the US Government and all of its political subdivisions don't have the manpower and resources to control everyone. So they pressure people by fear. They focus the resources they do have on a select few and make it look like they're all powerful. No one wants to be the guy that's made the example. But if everyone, and I mean https://media.tenor.com/images/ee0e4681215016a7c6b77d3a4c267588/tenor.gif Didn't following the law and practice Irish Democracy. BATFE nor the US Government and all of its political subdivisions would be powerless.  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 10:48:22 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am in Illinois, and I have a carry permit. What do YOU think? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Have you ever had a NICS check done? I am in Illinois, and I have a carry permit. What do YOU think? My point was anyone having had a NICS check done is in a database as a gun owner/gun buyer regardless of what they say about records being destroyed. Posting a picture or a comment about firearms has you tagged and on a list. Getting a free SBR is a side benefit of this, might as well get what you can out of it. Being on a list is the least of my problems. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 10:48:52 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You have a FOID. Build all the 80% stuff you want, you’re still on a list. There is a huge difference between being on a list as a "potential" gun owner, and giving big guv a detailed list exactly what you own. I am happy about a FOID? No. But a FOID means little. I know someone with a FOID card that never shoots....but she has one because her husband duck hunts and they had young kids. That way there is always a "legal" person in the house. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 10:52:22 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In all my years I've never been requested to produce my Form 1s or Form 4s when I travel with my NFA items. I CCW a damn SBR'ed PS90 for Christ's sake and no one has ever requested for me to produce my paperwork on it. More training? LOL.... Locals and State Cops have no clue WTF NFA is. You think BATFE goes around to Po'Dunk Town PD and puts on a four hour class on NFA laws? No. Didn't happen, doesn't happen, and won't happen. They don't have the time, resources, nor manpower. The locals unless they're hardcore gun folks barely understand their own local and state laws let alone NFA. Plus BATFE records are in such shambles that they've admitted that guns registered on the NFA aren't in their records. Local Police nor State Game Warden is going to call up BATFE HQ in WV to verify a Form 1 . Nothing stops someone from making fraudulent Form 1. With today's tech, it isn't hard to alter a scanned Form 1 and make it look like it was done for their gun and the local stopping them wouldn't know the damn difference. Your allegory to a traffic violation is wrong on this matter. You can drive conservatively and if you have an expired plate, a bust tail light, or other such. You'll still get pulled over and cited. That's what traffic guys do. BATFE has people abide by the law for two reaons. 1. The law abiding are law abiding. 2. Fear of being made the example. BATFE nor the US Government and all of its political subdivisions don't have the manpower and resources to control everyone. So they pressure people by fear. They focus the resources they do have on a select few and make it look like they're all powerful. No one wants to be the guy that's made the example. But if everyone, and I mean https://media.tenor.com/images/ee0e4681215016a7c6b77d3a4c267588/tenor.gif Didn't following the law and practice Irish Democracy. BATFE nor the US Government and all of its political subdivisions would be powerless.  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 10:53:01 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The king wants you on his radar. The king loves it when you register. It is possible to do neither. It seems like you are saying that if you are not willing to drill a 3rd hole, you might as well register.....as if there is no space in between. They don't need to track guns, they just need to track gun owners. The info is out there and I'm on most of it.... 1. State CCW Records (I'm on that list) 2. State/County/Local Permit to Purchase/Own 3. NFA Records (I'm on that list) 4. Social Media (I'm on that list) 5. 4473 as a OCR PDF and FFL Bound Book Records (I'm on that list) 6. Membership of Gun related Groups like the NRA, GOA, Shooting Ranges, etc (I'm on that list) 7. If you're politically active and have openly spoken in support of the 2nd Amendment (I'm on that list) 8. Credit Card/Bank History/Vendor Sales Records (I'm on that list) So it comes down to this.... do you bend knee or do you practice Irish Democracy? |
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